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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / March 20072nd Opinion Appointment
Well, it's time for that 2nd opinion. My appointment is for tomorrow afternoon. I'm just wondering if any of you have any suggestions for the kinds of things I should ask. I have a list of questions to ask. I want to start out well with him. I want to know your reactions to questions like "Do you give painless shots?" "Will you understand that I'm afraid and be patient with me?" These are the most sensitive questions, I think. The rest are standard about prices and his availability for appointments to get started working on my problems. I also plan to ask if he's heard of the NTI device and what he thinks about it. I want to let him know that I might need him to spend a little extra time with me to take it slow and not scare me. I think that will improve with time since I need to build some trust. I do have trust issues with dentists. I have the full set of X-rays that the first dentist generously shared with me at no cost. So I think he will have a good idea of what's going on, but may want to look for himself. I think that would be good since I will be scared, and I'd like to see what he's like to deal with when he's not going to be doing anything but look. What do you guys think? Thank you in advance for any help and/or suggestions you may offer. I don't want to stick my foot in my mouth -- hey, he can't check me out if my foot is in there! Eva > Well, it's time for that 2nd opinion. My appointment is for tomorrow > afternoon. I'm just wondering if any of you have any suggestions for [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Eva My gut feeling is that his spontaneous reaction to you and how the first few minutes of the consultation are conducted will tell you at least as much as the answers to those pretty boilerplate questions. I'd let him do the talking, and you do the listening and watching. Is he a nervous wreck himself? Does he greet you warmly and seem to be genuinely interested in you? Does he interview you, go over your medical history with you, or are the mirror and explorer in his hands almost before you've sit down? If there is a separate consultation visit, that is the time to discuss specific questions about your feelings, fears, and more mundane matters. The first visit you're checking him out (as he's checking you out) and his words, actions, body language, tone of voice with staff etc. will give you more information than an answer to the question "do you give painless injections? Good luck, Steve  SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 On Mar 7, 9:39 am, Mark & Steven Bornfeld <bornfeldm...@dentaltwins.com> wrote: > My gut feeling is that his spontaneous reaction to you and how the > first few minutes of the consultation are conducted will tell you at [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > medical history with you, or are the mirror and explorer in his hands > almost before you've sit down? Yes, this all makes good sense to me. I think it's a good idea to do as you say here. The dentist having the mirror and explorer in his hands before I can even settle into the chair is the way the dentist who scared me so much handled it. He didn't let me say a word before that thing was in my mouth and poking around. My approach to the dentist before him was to start crying the moment he walked into the room -- not a good approach at all. I scared HIM! > If there is a separate consultation visit, that is the time to discuss > specific questions about your feelings, fears, and more mundane matters. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Brooklyn, NY > 718-258-5001 This is just a consultation visit. I decided to sit and talk first, rather than make an appointment to have a filling removed and replaced. I thought it would put me at ease to have that chance to talk. Thank you for these good suggestions. I think you're right about his approach to me being a good indicator of his patience. To me, a dentist's patience and awareness of my fear will do a great deal to ease those fears. Good point about his tone of voice with his staff -- I hadn't thought of that. The last dentist who was rough and gruff with me was the same way with his staff. Very good point!! What does one say to a dentist when he tells you: "I hate to do this...."? Awww geez, the last time a dentist said that to me, he proceeded to give me a shot in the roof of my mouth that made me feel like I'd been hit with a sledgehammer. Next dentist gave me the same shot, and it didn't hurt at all. It's a big thing with me about how the shots are done. It's my main fear. Once I'm numb, I'm pretty good at sitting still and tolerating the work being done. I like to have the dentist tell me what he's going to do. Thanks! I'm looking to hear from more of you -- I'll put all your suggestions together and do my best to start a really good working relationship with this new dentist. I sure hope it works out. He's only 5 minutes away from me. That would make my life a lot easier. He has just expanded his practice into a brand new building. There are only 4-5 dentists out here, and I've gone through two of them already. One was highly skilled, but mean. The other was nice, but not highly skilled. Yikes! Eva > On Mar 7, 9:39 am, Mark & Steven Bornfeld > <bornfeldm...@dentaltwins.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > What does one say to a dentist when he tells you: "I hate to do > this...."? Ya, not a good thing. Palatal injections can be painful, but there are ways to minimize the pain. He should know this, and certainly not telegraph his feelings to an apprehensive patient. But we've all made that mistake. Often, we don't get a second chance with a patient. Steve Awww geez, the last time a dentist said that to me, he > proceeded to give me a shot in the roof of my mouth that made me feel > like I'd been hit with a sledgehammer. Next dentist gave me the same [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Eva SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > > What does one say to a dentist when he tells you: "I hate to do > > this...."? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Brooklyn, NY > 718-258-5001 Indeed, he didn't get a second chance with me. He simply moved too fast -- that was my impression. I sitll have a small scar on the roof of my mouth from that sledgehammer shot. The second time I had that same shot, the dentist moved very slowly, and it took him a long time to give me the shot. I sure didn't complain, tho. I was quite happy to wait it out since it really didn't hurt much. I was just starting to trust that one when he yelled at me. Dang! I'd even almost go back to him if I thought he could be a little kinder and more patient. It's a shame he was such a grump because he really was a good dentist in every other way. I could barely even feel it when he gave me shots. I'm still hoping to see a few more responses, but I know y'all are busy. I sure hope this guy is good. All I need is someone who is skilled but also kind and patient. I know he's out there somewhere. I've had some really good dentists, but it's the bad ones I remember the most. The most outstandingly bad dentist was the one who slapped me in the face when I was only 11 years old. Can you even imagine doing that to a little girl? Eva >The most outstandingly bad dentist was the one who slapped >me in the face when I was only 11 years old. Can you even imagine >doing that to a little girl? > >Eva HOMAR is an accepted pediatric technic. Slapping ? not so much. >>The most outstandingly bad dentist was the one who slapped >>me in the face when I was only 11 years old. Can you even imagine [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > HOMAR is an accepted pediatric technic. HOMAR?? > Slapping ? not so much. Probably actionable. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 On Mar 7, 4:07 pm, Mark & Steven Bornfeld <bornfeldm...@dentaltwins.com> wrote: > >>The most outstandingly bad dentist was the one who slapped > >>me in the face when I was only 11 years old. Can you even imagine [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Brooklyn, NY > 718-258-5001 Yeah, it probably was actionable. But I never even told my mother it happened. I was so young, so timid, so scared that I didn't do anything but run when he let me out of the chair. My mom was sitting in the waiting room, and I know *now* that I should've announced the fact that he slapped me in front of all the patients sitting there with their mommies and daddies. But I was just too young to stand up to an authority figure. I just ran through the waiting room, out the door, and all the way home. So you can see I come by my fear honestly. Eva > >>The most outstandingly bad dentist was the one who slapped > >>me in the face when I was only 11 years old. Can you even imagine [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > HOMAR?? I take it what Newbie aka whamatus aka wubbabubba is referring to is the hand-over-mouth-and-run technique, which is still accepted in Ohio and Siberia (just like the spelling "technic" for "technique" or papoose boards). > >The most outstandingly bad dentist was the one who slapped > >me in the face when I was only 11 years old. Can you even imagine [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Slapping ? not so much. What is HOMAR? I told the last dentist about the slap, and he told me that they actually told him in dental school to pinch a child's nose shut if they wiggled or cried. He said he told the instructor that he couldn't do that. He almost quit dental school over this kind of thing. Eva Hello Eva, I am not sure if a nice chat with your dentist will help much in determining his qualifications. Though this is a good first start I think having him actually do a procedure would be more informative. As for the questions try to find out how quickly they can schedule you for checkups or more serious weeks- are they booked for several weeks in advance? The first consultation with my current/soon-to-be-previous dentist was great. Lots of concern, explanations, and promises- once I became a regular patient though this changed to "let's look at this issue some other time", "oh, did we forget to tell you that you won't be able to eat for 6 hours after this procedure?", and a laundry list of things he would like to do in my mouth given to me by the assistant on the way out the door without any further explanations from the dentist. I guess it all comes down to trial-and-error. On to dentist #4 ... :( - Marco On Mar 7, 3:46 pm, "grube...@gmail.com" <grube...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello Eva, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > for checkups or more serious weeks- are they booked for several weeks > in advance? That is on my list of questions. I had to wait quite a while for the initial appointment with him, but that's because they are moving into a new, bigger building. So that is understandable. You're right -- I won't really know till I'm sitting in that chair and he starts working on me. But I have to start somewhere. It's a leap of faith. > The first consultation with my current/soon-to-be-previous dentist was > great. Lots of concern, explanations, and promises- once I became a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > - Marco I wish you all the best of luck in finding a good dentist. I think Steve's suggestion about looking at how he treats me when he first meets me is good. When I first encountered the last dentist who scared me so much and yelled at me, he wouldn't even give me a chance to tell him that I was afraid. I hope that letting him know that my fear is an issue will get us off to a good start. If he's understanding, that's a good start. Then I'll let him do some work on me and find out if he's also skilled. I have no other ideas about how to go about this. I decided to try this dentist when I saw that new building going up. I figure he's probably good if he's expanding his practice. I hope I'm right! When I'm seeing a doctor of any kind, I've always got a list of questions in my hand. When the doctor sees I have a list, he settles in and waits patiently till I've asked them all. I've never come across one who didn't wait till the list was finished. I do that because most doctors are in a hurry. They tend to slow down when they see the list. I don't know why, but it always works for me. Good luck! Eva The list is a great idea. However, I would be careful in trying to evaluate the quality of his work as a lay person. However, many dentists who are beloved by their patients are some of the worst clinicians - overhangs, no periodontal IQ, and treating the patient's wallet but they are patient and please their patients with their kindness, gentleness, and warmth. As a periodontist, I see the best and the worst of the profession. They all have a dedicated following. Ask a periodontist who he/she would want to be treated by. If the dentist he recommends is not attentive to your fears or gentle enough for you then, of course, you will need to try someone else. Good Luck. > The list is a great idea. However, I would be careful in trying to > evaluate the quality of his work as a lay person. However, many dentists [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Good Luck. But you see, there's the rub. Suppose I called you and asked you if dentist X was good or not. Would you really answer me honestly? Would you say, "No, he's a really bad dentist"? I don't think so. It just doesn't work that way. So that still leaves me in the dark. I can only do what I know how to do. I've never known a doctor, a dentist, anybody like that who wouldn't say the guy I was asking about was a good guy. They just won't talk about each other. Thanks for the good luck wishes, tho. Eva >>The list is a great idea. However, I would be careful in trying to >>evaluate the quality of his work as a lay person. However, many dentists [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > dentist X was good or not. Would you really answer me honestly? > Would you say, "No, he's a really bad dentist"? I don't think so. I think you're wront, and I don't even know "the Fritz". I can understand you think there is a dental equivalent of the "blue wall of silence" or "omerta". He would not have to tell you that Dr. A is a really, really bad dentist. He COULD tell you that "THESE" are the dentists I would consider if I were in your shoes. Me, I have no tact. I have told patients if they ask me about specific specialists' offices that I wouldn't go there. I sometimes even tell them why. Amazing sometimes I don't spend more time in court. ;-). Here's the deal--there is generally NO advantage on either side of the generalist-specialist equation where it makes sense to refer to someone you think is negligent. There may perhaps be economic pressures in small areas where there are only a couple of GPs and a couple of specialists--but not here. Same thing with a lab. No good specialist, or GP, or dental lab, is going to want to deal with a bum. I've done it, and it ain't fun. Steve It > just doesn't work that way. So that still leaves me in the dark. I > can only do what I know how to do. I've never known a doctor, a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Eva SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 On Mar 8, 9:11 am, Mark & Steven Bornfeld <bornfeldm...@dentaltwins.com> wrote: > I think you're wront, and I don't even know "the Fritz". I can > understand you think there is a dental equivalent of the "blue wall of [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Brooklyn, NY > 718-258-5001 Steve, do you have any openings for my next visit to New York? :-) I'm certain I could be wrong. I am often. I know nobody would refer me to somebody who they didn't think was any good. But I'm fishing for this dentist. Nobody referred me to him. I'm in such a quandry. I've heard several people say on here that the lay person is at a disadvantage in deciding if a dentist is good or not. I sure wish there were a way for us to determine this. My primary care physician dropped my insurance years ago -- I had to scramble to find a new doctor. I asked him if Dr. X was a good doctor. He said, "I haven't heard anything bad." Dr. X turned out to not be a bad doctor, per se. It's just that he wasn't interested in me at all. He never looked into my eyes, listened to my heart and lungs, or even so much as laid a finger on me for any reason. I'd sit in the chair, and he'd sit and look at my chart and ask me what drugs I'd like today. Huh? So that's where I get the impression that doctors won't tell you if they don't think another doctor is very good. Or maybe they don't know -- I don't know. I've gone round and round with this whole thing, and I don't know what to do except follow my instincts. I'm just doing the best I can the only way I know how. That's why I'm here asking you guys. You've all been helpful and very nice to me. But I'm still confused. Maybe this guy I'm going to see today will be really good and I'll just get lucky. I don't know. I'm still scared. I have to leave here in a few minutes. Egad. My heart is starting to race, and I know we're not even doing any kind of procedure. I just hope I don't cry. Eva > On Mar 8, 9:11 am, Mark & Steven Bornfeld > <bornfeldm...@dentaltwins.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > Eva Truth is, for the most part we don't know how good our colleagues are. The GPs know if their perio and endo patients are well-taken care of. We hear complaints about long waits, rude treatment, overcharges, dirty offices. IOW, we hear the obvious bad stuff. Sometimes we'll hear that "that endodontist you sent me to was a DOLL!!". But no one tells us that the surgeon used exactly the right instruments, that he inflicted the lowest possible amount of trauma to the tissues. The periodontists will know if our crowns have good margins, but they won't know generally if we're good diagnosticians. It's really not easy. One of my patients was convinced I was a genius because I picked up a case of lichen planus, and their dermatologist thought that was pretty astute of me (believe me, it's no big deal--lichen planus looks like nothing else when it's in the mouth). The best way is still a way that may not be available to you--a friend with generally good judgement who has built up a relationship with a doctor over many years and been seen through a variety of problems and treatments, who has seen a consistent pattern of competence and caring. Easier said than done. Good luck, Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 On Mar 8, 1:34 pm, Mark & Steven Bornfeld <bornfeldm...@dentaltwins.com> wrote: > Truth is, for the most part we don't know how good our colleagues are. > The GPs know if their perio and endo patients are well-taken care of. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Brooklyn, NY > 718-258-5001 Well, my mom knows a lady who goes to this dentist and likes him. That's all I have in the way of anecdotal evidence. All I can go by is how he treats me and if I'm comfortable with him. I have no other way of really knowing if he's good or not. Only time will tell. So far, we're good. I'm not that picky. I only want a little understanding, a little patience, and an even temperament. I don't want anybody yelling at me ever again. I'll bet you anything the guy who works on my new dentist is the one who yelled at me. I live in a small town, and they most likely know each other. This new dentist's wife went to school with my sister. So my lips are sealed. Eva > I live in a >small town, and they most likely know each other. This new dentist's >wife went to school with my sister. So my lips are sealed. > >Eva How did the new dentist seal your lips ? SuperGlue ? This is not a common dental procedure, in fact it's probably not within the scope of normal dental practice. <G> > > I live in a > >small town, and they most likely know each other. This new dentist's [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > <G> Yeah, I know -- it's a new thing. You mean you haven't heard of this? :-) Eva On Mar 8, 1:34 pm, Mark & Steven Bornfeld <bornfeldm...@dentaltwins.com> wrote: > The best way is still a way that may not be available to you--a friend > with generally good judgement who has built up a relationship with a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Brooklyn, NY > 718-258-5001 I found another person who has gone to this dentist for a while. I'll ask him more when I see him in person, but I called my pharmacist this morning about getting more of the prescription toothpaste Prevident. I've known this pharmacist for over 25 years, and he's my go-to guy. I trust him absolutely. I asked him if he knew this dentist, and he said yes. He'd just had a crown done by him, and he said it went very well. He says this doc is really good. Eva |
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