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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / February 2007

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Amatus Cremona - 21 Feb 2007 16:45 GMT
Hi all!!

Just poked my nose in to see what the atmosphere was like.

Seems nice and productive.  What happened?

I have the "usual's" filtered out.  Are they not posting, or has everyone
learned to ignore them?

Dead day at the office today.  Will probably go home and work on a Bach duet
some more.

Signature

/

Amatus

/

Newbie - 21 Feb 2007 16:55 GMT
>    Hi all!!
>
>Just poked my nose in to see what the atmosphere was like.
>
>Seems nice and productive.  What happened?

When you don't feed the trolls, they wither and die.

>I have the "usual's" filtered out.  Are they not posting, or has everyone
>learned to ignore them?

A bit of both methinks.

>Dead day at the office today.  Will probably go home and work on a Bach duet
>some more.
Steven Fawks - 22 Feb 2007 02:37 GMT
We kind of tried that and it wasn't very successful for
*several* years.  Maybe after most of the dentists left
for a time, some trolls gave up with the dwindling audience.

Maybe if and when they reappear, we will manage better.

Steve

> When you don't feed the trolls, they wither and die.
Newbie - 22 Feb 2007 14:34 GMT
We can only hope. ;)

>We kind of tried that and it wasn't very successful for
>*several* years.  Maybe after most of the dentists left
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>> When you don't feed the trolls, they wither and die.
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 21 Feb 2007 17:22 GMT
>     Hi all!!
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Dead day at the office today.  Will probably go home and work on a Bach duet
> some more.

    Most (not all, obviously) have moved on to greener pastures.  I guess
fighting with ones'self becomes fatiguing.
    How are things in Michigan?  Do you have a duet partner?
    Should I take another look at the Chaconne? ;-)

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Amatus Cremona - 22 Feb 2007 00:59 GMT
> How are things in Michigan?

Lousy right now. The economy is horrible.

Do you have a duet partner?

Nope. I am leaning the first part now. Once I can play that together with my
teacher, I get to learn the second part. this is my toughest piece to learn
so far. Lots of switching from martollato to Arco while sliding between
first and third positions. A few dynamic changes while counting out 16th
notes tied across measures to half and quarter notes.   But, ,, lots of FUN!
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 22 Feb 2007 01:06 GMT
>>How are things in Michigan?
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> first and third positions. A few dynamic changes while counting out 16th
> notes tied across measures to half and quarter notes.   But, ,, lots of FUN!

Do you like Scarlatti?  This woman has a recording of guitar
transcriptions in two parts--both played by her.  It is quite wonderful:

http://cdbaby.com/cd/gangbar

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Amatus Cremona - 22 Feb 2007 01:13 GMT
Yes, I love Scarlatti's music.  I usually hear those pieces on violin.

>>>How are things in Michigan?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Steve
Steven Bornfeld - 22 Feb 2007 03:46 GMT
> Yes, I love Scarlatti's music.  I usually hear those pieces on violin.

    Hmmm--I haven't--I'm assuming transcriptions.  He didn't write any
violin music, did he?
  Recently someone recommended Horowitz's piano recordings.  Doesn't
sound like he'd be a natural for it, but I've been wrong before.

Steve

>>>> How are things in Michigan?
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>>
>> Steve
Clinton - 22 Feb 2007 01:47 GMT
> > How are things in Michigan?
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> first and third positions. A few dynamic changes while counting out 16th
> notes tied across measures to half and quarter notes.   But, ,, lots of FUN!

Would anyone like to know what I had for dinner? I'm also learning my
piano
chords, D# is pain, but it sounds real cool!
Lurker - 21 Feb 2007 17:37 GMT
>     Hi all!!
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> /

To Amatus and all,

As far as the atmosphere here, IMHO it is really a matter of Newbie
and Steve Bornfeld sticking it out.

This is NOT a slam to those that left.  Eveyone did what they thought
was best at the time, and perhaps it was what needed at the time.  So
thanks for doing what you thought best.

However I commend Newbie and Steve (and of course Tony Bad and Dartos
and those that popped in occasionally too) for sticking it out and
answering patient questions

Newbie and Steve were the ones that hung in there and kept this usenet
together.

THANK YOU GUYS

And welcome back Amatus.

Sincerely,

Sue
Lurker - 21 Feb 2007 17:49 GMT
> >     Hi all!!
>
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Also Alex Vasserman hung in there too.  THANKS.  And Webby and Steve
Fawks are back...so it seems like the core are here.

I am probably missing  a few as I was only reading periodically.

Sue
Newbie - 21 Feb 2007 21:19 GMT
>To Amatus and all,
>
>As far as the atmosphere here, IMHO it is really a matter of Newbie
>and Steve Bornfeld sticking it out.

Well thanks, but it was more Bornfeld than me.

And of course there were others that you mentioned.
George - 21 Feb 2007 18:36 GMT
> Dead day at the office today.  Will probably go home and work on a Bach duet
> some more.

Wanna swap places with me? Wouldn't mind a dead day.

Regards,
George
Amatus Cremona - 22 Feb 2007 11:55 GMT
Too many of them right now.  Half days on Wednesdays is now the norm.

Chrysler recently announced another round of lay-off's.  Every such
announcement reduces the public's confidence even more.

Signature

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Amatus

/

>
>> Dead day at the office today.  Will probably go home and work on a Bach
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Regards,
> George
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 22 Feb 2007 17:29 GMT
> Too many of them right now.  Half days on Wednesdays is now the norm.
>
> Chrysler recently announced another round of lay-off's.  Every such
> announcement reduces the public's confidence even more.

    I've thought of the Detroit area from time to time.  Last year there
was an article in the NY Times that basically said Detroit had
contracted by half the last 30 years.  I was thinking that (as in NY)
the suburbs might have developed more of a service economy--high tech
firms, etc.  But I've heard about towns and cities that depend heavily
on a single industry--Detroit, Pittsburg, Rochester (wasn't Joel from
Rochester?) and how this makes the local economy susceptible to drastic
downturns.
    I had once spoken with a dentist in Pittsfield MA, which apparently was
largely supported by a GE plant.  When the plant closed the whole area
was affected, but the surrounding areas (the Berkshires of eastern MA)
at least have an active vacation and entertainment presence (think
Tanglewood).
    It's really sad--manufacturing is almost dead in this country--and the
Chinese aren't even exporting cars here yet.
    We've just let go of our single biggest group (UFT welfare fund)  whose
members comprise over 40% of our practice.  We should have long ago, but
fear held us back.  Now we've had to, and we just are keeping our
fingers crossed that a significant number choose to stay with us, or
we're going to have a bunch of dead days too.

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Amatus Cremona - 22 Feb 2007 18:48 GMT
The City of Detroit proper had close to 2 million residents in the 1950's.
Now it is estimated to be below 900,000.  Negative population growth in
every area of Detroit City except for Mexican Village.  We are moving the
dental school into that region this year.  Scheduled to open in January
2008.  I am chairman of one the fund raisers for the new school.

The suburbs are in negative growth mode as well right now.  Our economy
ranks 49th out of the 50 States right now.  Kids are graduating and leaving
the State.  Lots of mature people leaving as well.  Nothing on the political
horizon to change anything either.  With a democratic Governor, she is
proposing to tax services now to make up the short-fall.  I wish someone
would tell her that the State would have a lot more tax money if more people
were working here.  Adding a 2-3% service tax during a recession is only
going to make many services too expensive for more people.

The auto companies have been announcing cut-backs in labor for the past few
years.  Unfortunately, the local news people report the total number of
lay-offs in the industry with no explanation of how many of these people are
in other States or Countries.  So, people hear the big lay-off numbers and
panic.  Also, the news media will report the lay-off numbers again after a
couple of weeks (or more) not mentioning that this is the same lay-off
report from before, but the population will think this is even more numbers
of lost jobs and panic further.  There is a huge lack of economic confidence
in this area right now.  I am treating more dental problems related to high
emotional stress than I ever have previously.  People are generally in foul
moods and get angry over meaningless things all the time.

Don't plan on moving the Michigan during the next few years unless your
business involves mortgage foreclosures or similar enterprises.

Manufacturing is profit driven.  When the government wants to tax the plant
on its land holdings, its building, its building improvements, any
furniture, all the machinery, all the tools, all the raw material, and all
the labor, the plant begins to wonder how to make a profit.  Then, add in
numerous regulations about storing chemicals, raw products, shipping raw
products, manufacturing exhaust, etc., and the plant actually begins to look
somewhere else.

Close the big plant, and you not only put a bunch of employees on the
street, you stop buying cleaning supplies from the local dealer, you stop
getting production tools from the local tool shop, you stop ordering molds
from the mold maker, you stop filling vending machines in the cafeteria, you
stop ordering fresh vegetables from the market, you starve the local
restaurant where workers would stop for breakfast, the gas station relying
on workers to fill up on the way home closes shop, etc. etc. etc.

When your State thinks that big business is evil and they can do anything
they want to the big plants, the entire State loses.

Signature

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Amatus

/

>> Too many of them right now.  Half days on Wednesdays is now the norm.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Steve
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 22 Feb 2007 20:06 GMT
> The City of Detroit proper had close to 2 million residents in the 1950's.
> Now it is estimated to be below 900,000.  Negative population growth in
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> When your State thinks that big business is evil and they can do anything
> they want to the big plants, the entire State loses.

    I know we're not on the same wavelength politically, but that's just sad.

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Amatus Cremona - 22 Feb 2007 20:54 GMT
Don't have to believe in the same Politics or the same God to be best of
friends.

Signature

/

Amatus

/

>> The City of Detroit proper had close to 2 million residents in the
>> 1950's. Now it is estimated to be below 900,000.  Negative population
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
>
> Steve
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 22 Feb 2007 20:59 GMT
> Don't have to believe in the same Politics or the same God to be best of
> friends.

    Wife asked again when we were making that trip to Michigan.  How are R
and S?

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Amatus Cremona - 22 Feb 2007 21:56 GMT
Are you referring to Mrs. Cremona (Paulette)? and Young Stratovari?

We are ready for your trip.  We will drown you in attention and good food.
Ask W_B.

Signature

/

Amatus

/

>> Don't have to believe in the same Politics or the same God to be best of
>> friends.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Steve
Steven Bornfeld - 22 Feb 2007 22:11 GMT
> Are you referring to Mrs. Cremona (Paulette)? and Young Stratovari?
>
> We are ready for your trip.  We will drown you in attention and good food.
> Ask W_B.

    Must be the mercury--I plum forgot Paulette's name.  Young Strad (don't
tell me he's gone over to guitar and is not Strat) must be in 6th grade.
 We're going through the middle school selection psychosis right now.

Steve
Amatus Cremona - 22 Feb 2007 22:34 GMT
Yup!  Stratovari is in 6th grade.  He has a down-hill ski race tonight with
the Thunderbolts.  www.thunderboltracing.com   Last race on Sunday.  Much
too cold for my Mediterranean blood.  I will watch from the door-way of the
lodge on Sunday.

Signature

/

Amatus

/

>> Are you referring to Mrs. Cremona (Paulette)? and Young Stratovari?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Steve
Steven Bornfeld - 22 Feb 2007 23:32 GMT
> Yup!  Stratovari is in 6th grade.  He has a down-hill ski race tonight with
> the Thunderbolts.  www.thunderboltracing.com   Last race on Sunday.  Much
> too cold for my Mediterranean blood.  I will watch from the door-way of the
> lodge on Sunday.

    There are mountains in Michigan?  Someone once told me that the Upper
Peninsula was like Vermont, except it was flat.  That's kinda like
saying I look like a Baldwin brother, except that I'm ugly.
    Good luck Strat!

Steve
Amatus Cremona - 23 Feb 2007 13:27 GMT
Strong winds shut down the chair lifts last night.  Race post-poned to next
week.

The ski hills in the Southern half of the State are mostly land fills.  The
upper 1/3 of the State has some low mountains scattered about.  No big
ranges.  The Traverse City area has a lot of natural ski hills.  The upper
peninsula has lots of high hills everywhere.

I have never been to Vermont.  If Vermont is mostly rolling forest with
miles between towns, then maybe they are similar.

Signature

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Amatus

/

>> Yup!  Stratovari is in 6th grade.  He has a down-hill ski race tonight
>> with the Thunderbolts.  www.thunderboltracing.com   Last race on Sunday.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Steve
The Webby - 22 Feb 2007 22:25 GMT
> Are you referring to Mrs. Cremona (Paulette)? and Young Stratovari?
>
> We are ready for your trip.  We will drown you in attention and good food.
> Ask W_B.

They are *great* guests too!!!!!!!!!  

Webby

> /
> >> Don't have to believe in the same Politics or the same God to be best of
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> >
> > Steve
Amatus Cremona - 22 Feb 2007 22:34 GMT
Especially when the hosts are wonderful.

Signature

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Amatus

/

>
>> Are you referring to Mrs. Cremona (Paulette)? and Young Stratovari?
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>> >
>> > Steve
Newbie - 23 Feb 2007 16:13 GMT
>> When your State thinks that big business is evil and they can do anything
>> they want to the big plants, the entire State loses.
>
>    I know we're not on the same wavelength politically, but that's just sad.
>
>Steve

Nope that's liberalism.

Sorry Dr.B. More sorry for Dr.M
John & Ninetta - 23 Feb 2007 02:04 GMT
> The suburbs are in negative growth mode as well right now.  Our economy
> ranks 49th out of the 50 States right now.  Kids are graduating and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> recession is only going to make many services too expensive for more
> people.

I keep seeing those commercials by Jeff Daniels pumping up the state.  For
someone like myself who lives a good distance from the Detroit/Windsor
border, I had no idea things were so difficult in Michigan nowadays.  Of
course the manufacturing sector here in Ontario has been hit hard as well,
but it doesn't sound nearly as bad as what you are experiencing.  There is
no recession here......yet.  By the way, those commercials are great....make
you want to think about moving there.

John
Amatus Cremona - 23 Feb 2007 13:33 GMT
Every time they get a company to move here, the Governor uses that statistic
for two years in an effort to make herself look good.  They occasionally get
some company to move here and bring in 50-150 jobs, but lose hundreds out
the other side at the same time.  Everyone I talk to says their kids are
leaving the State after finishing University studies.

All the charities I contribute to are getting less than half their normal
donations.  I fear that I chose the wrong year to volunteer to head a fund
raiser for the dental school.

Right now virtually every dental office in SE Michigan is down about 20-30%.
Whoever survives the next few years will have a rock solid business to grow
on.

Signature

/

Amatus

/

>> The suburbs are in negative growth mode as well right now.  Our economy
>> ranks 49th out of the 50 States right now.  Kids are graduating and
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> John
Newbie - 23 Feb 2007 16:11 GMT
>When your State thinks that big business is evil and they can do anything
>they want to the big plants, the entire State loses.

Which proves the fact that democrats are evil ! ;-))

You cannot tax your way to prosperity.
Amatus Cremona - 24 Feb 2007 18:08 GMT
The problem with the Republicans is that they are driven by a fundamental
religious group now. Their social ideas stink.

>>When your State thinks that big business is evil and they can do anything
>>they want to the big plants, the entire State loses.
>
> Which proves the fact that democrats are evil ! ;-))
>
> You cannot tax your way to prosperity.
Steven Bornfeld - 24 Feb 2007 19:26 GMT
> The problem with the Republicans is that they are driven by a fundamental
> religious group now. Their social ideas stink.

    Can anyone explain the unusual split in the Supreme Court on the
verdict Tues overturning the punitive damages award in the tobacco case
against Phillip Morris?

http://tinyurl.com/yopqtv

Steve

>>> When your State thinks that big business is evil and they can do anything
>>> they want to the big plants, the entire State loses.
>>
>> Which proves the fact that democrats are evil ! ;-))
>>
>> You cannot tax your way to prosperity.
Amatus Cremona - 26 Feb 2007 13:28 GMT
I do not understand smokers who get upset when they get a smoking related
disease.  Let along sue for damages.

Signature

/

Amatus

/

>> The problem with the Republicans is that they are driven by a fundamental
>> religious group now. Their social ideas stink.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>>>
>>> You cannot tax your way to prosperity.
Newbie - 26 Feb 2007 16:02 GMT
You are thinking of liberal republicans.

Myself, I am a *conservative*. :-)

>The problem with the Republicans is that they are driven by a fundamental
>religious group now. Their social ideas stink.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>>
>> You cannot tax your way to prosperity.
The Webby - 21 Feb 2007 18:58 GMT
>     Hi all!!
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Dead day at the office today.  Will probably go home and work on a Bach duet
> some more.

Great to "see" you!!!  

Webby
Le Huart - 21 Feb 2007 19:43 GMT
What happened to Joel Eichen, DDS alumnus of U.Penn?
Lurker - 21 Feb 2007 20:03 GMT
> What happened to Joel Eichen, DDS alumnus of U.Penn?

Joel is very busy working.  He is onsite managing a dental practice in
Moyamenssing (I am not sure if I am spelling this correctly) where he
spends a good part of every day.  It is going very well. He enjoys the
focus and learning more and more about "modern" dentistry.  (lol...he
was retired for a couple years).

He has a great crew of 6 dentists (GDs and specialists). Some fulltime
and some parttime. They have a couple of fulltime EFDAs and an office
person. Check out the Dentrix forums and you may find his office
person.  She's a real sweety and  gives out Dentrix tips all the time.
(sorry but her name escapes me at the moment... but she is from
Moyamenssing Dental) (again, sorry for misspelling)

He is also in a partnership (co-owner) of another practice in Philly.
I do not know much about that practice except that the "clientele" are
a bit more wealthy.

Joel is rarely on any boards anymore.  He is completely consumed in
his new venture.

All I can say is it sure is keeping him outta trouble!!!  (I
understand he was often a troublemaker here).

He sounds genuinely happy :-)  :-)

Drop him an email...he is never too busy to hear from friends!

joeleichen@yahoo.com

That's about all I know,

-Sue
carabelli - 21 Feb 2007 20:15 GMT
Joel who?

carabelli
Lurker - 22 Feb 2007 05:26 GMT
> Joel who?
>
> carabelli

carabelli,

I am not sure if joel was just considered a nuisance or if he was ever
really accepted here, but he pretty much liked all you guys.

He told me a long time ago that scimed was a great group of folks and
encouraged me to forget DT, where there was a core group of rude jerks
that loved to push people around.  He said the group at Scimed was a
more respectful group of professionals and dentists.

I think he meant it as a compliment to all of you.

-Sue
The Webby - 22 Feb 2007 15:07 GMT
> > Joel who?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> -Sue

Uhmmmmm..... this is sci.med.dentistry  (aka smd) ...

Webby
Lurker - 22 Feb 2007 22:00 GMT
> In article <1172121978.678301.150...@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> - Show quoted text -

Webby,
Yes, I understand that.

I have not seen your brother on smd in quite some time but he made
some comments on DT a few months ago. Are you both still speaking on
iatrogenic disease these days?

Thanks,

-Sue
PS Happy retirement.  I hope you are enjoying the transition.
The Webby - 22 Feb 2007 22:50 GMT
> > In article <1172121978.678301.150...@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> -Sue
> PS Happy retirement.  I hope you are enjoying the transition.

He's very busy with the work he does; so you won't see him posting
often.  As for speaking about the iatroepidemic and the TMJ ... I'll
speak if asked.  Do you have a question?

It's sort of "retirement" ... thanks for the good wishes.

Webby
Amatus Cremona - 22 Feb 2007 11:55 GMT
Hugs !!

Signature

/

Amatus

/

>
>>     Hi all!!
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Webby
Vaughn Simon - 21 Feb 2007 23:02 GMT
>    Hi all!!
>
> Just poked my nose in to see what the atmosphere was like.

    Amatus who?

    Good to hear from you.  I hope the winter weather has been good to you.

Vaughn
Clinton - 21 Feb 2007 23:46 GMT
On Feb 21, 6:02 pm, "Vaughn Simon" <vaughnsimonHATESS...@att.FAKE.net>
wrote:

> >    Hi all!!
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Vaughn

Maybe , Fawks, Manusco, Dr. Bad and thier good friends could get their
own
list and leave everybody else alone, instead of using Sci. Dental as
their personal
text messaging service, while patting themselves on the pack for being
such
'good symmeritan' posters whily they bash anyone who makes a
scientific point
or dares to criticize the ADA. Did it occur to any of you
scientifically illiterate
ADA worshippers that no one CARES if you post or not or what your
family
is doing, or who visited who over the last holiday and what they ate
for dinner?

Have a nice day.
Clinton - 21 Feb 2007 23:39 GMT
>     Hi all!!
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> /

Too bad you can't leave well enough alone without lobbing in a
gratituious
comment. Let's not forget Dr. Manuscuo that you hide behind an
anynomous name
and your list was a failure. By the way the dentists attempts to
dehumanize patients posioned by their lying organization,the ADA over
the years has been a disgusting spectacle. Too bad you can't answer
basic scientific questions instead
of restorting to such tactics.

I think the overall lack of posting is probably related to the
exhaustion of people trying to argue with scientifically illiterate
dentists as well as the fact that now that google lists the number of
people on the list, many posters realize what a narrow audience this
list is.

Your assertion that the list is now productive, minus certain posters
you authoritavtivey deem "the usuals" , "the nuts" "anyonone
criticizing the sanctified ADA", as if disscussing certain issues
while giving dental advice must be a zero sum game is also, as usual
smugly illogical.
 
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