Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / December 2006
Root Canal On #31 - What Am I In For?
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Patrick Melton - 11 Dec 2006 21:00 GMT I've never been a fan of the dentist. I'm 27 years old. I'm a bit of a baby - can't stand needles, pain, and I really psych myself out about things. I was recently diagnosed with diabetes, so I'm getting better with the needles, but the whole idea still creeps me out. And again, I hate pain and the anticipation of pain.
In 2000, I went to the dentist for the first time in about 8 years. I had 4 cavities filled and two crowns redone (#8 and #9 - yep, my two front teeth). I busted them out in a playground accident when I was little, and eventually had to get a root canal on #9. All of these traumatic experiences probably are the reason for my uneasiness and anxiety when it comes to anything to do with the dentist. My entire experience in 2000 was good, though - sure I don't like the shots, but it's just a pinch, and I got over it. The crown replacement went well, the cavities got filled painlessly, and everything was a much better memory in my mind.
Still, I failed to go to the dentist regularly, despite the fact that I have dental insurance. I just put it off, and put it off, and before I know it, it's 2006. I hadn't been to the dentist in 6 years AGAIN. And to top it off, I don't floss - ever. One day in August I noticed by feeling with my tongue on the back of #8 that there felt like a crack or chip in the crown. So I went to the dentist. They confirmed there was a small crack, did a deep cleaning on my teeth, and I've also had 4 more fillings since August. They again, were positive experiences compared to my memories and the pain I had been telling myself would be coming.
The last filling that I got was in #17 - the wisdom tooth. It was pretty uneventful, except when I got the shot prior to the filling it felt like he hit a nerve because after the slight pinch I've come to expect and tolerate there was a very sharp, very real, very extreme pain for a few seconds. This SUCKED. But I got the filling and that was last Friday, and all is well, no pain.
The thing is, while I was there, they did an x-ray of the area of my previous filling (I think to just check to make sure the bite was right in that area) and they found another cavity on #31. He told me that is close to the pulp of the tooth, and told me to go to an endodontist to have it checked out to see if I would need a root canal, and told me I probably would. However, on the referral slip he gave me it has "Endodontic Therapy" checked instead of "Consultation and Diagnosis Only". This leads me to believe he didn't have the heart to tell me I'm definitely going to need one. My appointment is for next Tuesday and I'm freaking out.
Before I get into this, I get it. Flossing is important. Regular cleanings are important. I realize it, I get it, and I'm going to do it. Floss nightly, checkups and cleanings every six months. It's free and painless. Believe me, I'm going to do it. Lesson learned.
However I've got to get through this first. I have no idea what to expect. It's #31 in the back so I'm bracing for another really painful shot like I had on the last one. But I'm willing to go through that because it lessens the pain for everything else. But tell me - what am I going to experience? How much is this going to hurt? What exactly are they going to do? This tooth is pretty much alive and well, and they're essentially killing it, right? It sounds really painful. The cavity is sort of near #30.
Again, I'm just freaking out. I want to know, plain and bluntly, what they're going to do, what kind of pain to expect, how long I can expect it for, how many visits it should take, how much it should cost (I only have $450 more of coverage left over for this year), and anything else you can tell me to comfort or prepare me. I want to scream! I want to hear that once I am numb it's a fairly simple and standard procedure. I want to hear that I wont have pain after. I want to hear that they do this everyday and I have nothing to worry about. But I only want to hear that if it's the truth!
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 11 Dec 2006 21:27 GMT Patrick Melton wrote:
> I've never been a fan of the dentist. I'm 27 years old. I'm a bit of a > baby - can't stand needles, pain, and I really psych myself out about [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > this everyday and I have nothing to worry about. But I only want to > hear that if it's the truth! The injection likely was painful because the dentist got "lucky" and hit the nerve directly. The plus side is you usually get instant, deep anesthesia. The minus is you get a stabbing pain radiating from your ear to your lip. Assuming you are right and the tooth does need root canal, more and more endodontists are treating teeth (even molars) in a single visit; however, each tooth is individual and must be considered on its particular merits. You should expect good pain control during the procedure and adequate pain medication should you need it after the procedure. The average cost around here (Brooklyn NY) for an endodontist treating a molar is $1,000-$1200. The tooth will almost certainly need a crown afterward. If your insurance works on a calendar year you can easily wait until 2007 to have the crown done.
Good luck, Steve
 Signature Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001
Patrick Melton - 12 Dec 2006 06:34 GMT > The injection likely was painful because the dentist got "lucky" and > hit the nerve directly. The plus side is you usually get instant, deep [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Brooklyn, NY > 718-258-5001 Waiting until the new year is a bad option because I do have to get a new crown because of the crack on the crown on #8, and they said they would have to do #9 too or it wouldn't match. Is that right? Can they not match one crown to another? Because those two crowns are going to eat up my insurance for 2007.
Are there any downfalls to this? I feel like they are killing a perfectly good tooth just because of a cavity. Are there any risks to this procedure?
You say after the anesthesia the whole procedure should be pain free, and then possibly some soreness afterwards? Just checking - I think I can live with that.
Also, why would I need a crown? Is the price you quoted with or without a crown?
Also, I'm going to be speaking publicly the 21st, 22nd, and 23rd - Thursday through Saturday. If I get this done on the morning of the 19th, am I going to able to speak, or should I put it off until the 26th or 27th?
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 12 Dec 2006 15:46 GMT Patrick Melton wrote:
>> The injection likely was painful because the dentist got "lucky" and >>hit the nerve directly. The plus side is you usually get instant, deep [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > not match one crown to another? Because those two crowns are going to > eat up my insurance for 2007. I thought you said you only had $450 in coverage left for this year. Assuming your insurance pays at least 50% of the charges for the root canal, that alone will eat up your remaining benefit for this year. Generally if both 8 and 9 have been crowned years ago and one needs to be redone, you will indeed get a much better result if they are both redone--esp. if they are done simultaneously.
> Are there any downfalls to this? I feel like they are killing a > perfectly good tooth just because of a cavity. Are there any risks to > this procedure? Which tooth are you talking about here?
> You say after the anesthesia the whole procedure should be pain free, > and then possibly some soreness afterwards? Just checking - I think I > can live with that. That is the most likely scenario.
> Also, why would I need a crown? Is the price you quoted with or without > a crown? The tooth (#31) is almost certainly fairly broken down to require a root canal. In the course of doing the root canal, the tooth will be hollowed out further. For this reason, the remaining tooth structure above the gumline is severely weakened after a root canal--and this is a tooth that takes major chewing forces. Fillings don't hold up well long-term, and often the teeth fracture. The tooth should receive either a crown or an onlay that covers the cusps of the tooth.
> Also, I'm going to be speaking publicly the 21st, 22nd, and 23rd - > Thursday through Saturday. If I get this done on the morning of the > 19th, am I going to able to speak, or should I put it off until the > 26th or 27th? If you are referring to the root canal treatment, it is very unlikely to be a significant problem, but I cannot promise you that there will be no residual soreness on these days.
Steve
 Signature Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001
Patrick Melton - 12 Dec 2006 19:03 GMT > I thought you said you only had $450 in coverage left for this year. > Assuming your insurance pays at least 50% of the charges for the root > canal, that alone will eat up your remaining benefit for this year. My dental insurance will pay $450 more this year total for any dental work. So I'll get this root canal and have to pay the rest out of pocket. It's not a problem, I just want to get it done before Jan 1st to get the $450. I'll need my full allowed coverage for 2007 to replace the crowns on #8 and #9.
So you stated $1000-$1200 before - does this include a crown or cap? Just trying to get an idea of what this will cost me.
> Generally if both 8 and 9 have been crowned years ago and one needs to > be redone, you will indeed get a much better result if they are both > redone--esp. if they are done simultaneously. This is what I'll do then.
> > Are there any downfalls to this? I feel like they are killing a > > perfectly good tooth just because of a cavity. Are there any risks to > > this procedure? > > Which tooth are you talking about here? The root canal on #31. You've made me feel a little better about it. I was just kind of freaking out about complications and the pain that could come after the procedure by reading some experiences here.
Thanks for your help.
PS - What's with all this crap posted by "Jan"? It doesn't seem to be specific to anything I asked and a string of endless links doesn't really mean anything to me.
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 12 Dec 2006 20:04 GMT Patrick Melton wrote:
>> I thought you said you only had $450 in coverage left for this year. >>Assuming your insurance pays at least 50% of the charges for the root [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > So you stated $1000-$1200 before - does this include a crown or cap? > Just trying to get an idea of what this will cost me. No, it does not.
>> Generally if both 8 and 9 have been crowned years ago and one needs to >>be redone, you will indeed get a much better result if they are both [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thanks for your help. You're welcome.
Steve
> PS - What's with all this crap posted by "Jan"? It doesn't seem to be > specific to anything I asked and a string of endless links doesn't > really mean anything to me.
 Signature Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001
Jan - 13 Dec 2006 17:35 GMT > > I thought you said you only had $450 in coverage left for this year. > > Assuming your insurance pays at least 50% of the charges for the root [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > specific to anything I asked and a string of endless links doesn't > really mean anything to me Sorry, you feel it is crap. Means to me you really don't want to know the truth and risks about root canals.
Jim Leonard - 14 Dec 2006 20:32 GMT > Sorry, you feel it is crap. Means to me you really don't want to know > the truth and risks about root canals. Normally I don't feed the trolls, but I'm curious: If you're against root canals, what procedure would you suggest to someone who needs one? What is your alternative?
Peter Bowditch - 14 Dec 2006 22:24 GMT >> Sorry, you feel it is crap. Means to me you really don't want to know >> the truth and risks about root canals. > >Normally I don't feed the trolls, but I'm curious: If you're against >root canals, what procedure would you suggest to someone who needs one? > What is your alternative? Extraction, of course. That is what is recommended by the anti-dentists that Jan seems to revere.
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Jan - 15 Dec 2006 21:40 GMT > > Sorry, you feel it is crap. Means to me you really don't want to know > > the truth and risks about root canals. > > Normally I don't feed the trolls, but I'm curious: If you're against > root canals, what procedure would you suggest to someone who needs one? > What is your alternative? You haven't a clue as to a usenet troll. As a metter of fact, I have been here much longer than you. Your total posts here are four.
My alternative is listed on the websites I posted. Extraction is much better than keeping a *dead* tooth which can lead to all kinds of problems.
http://www.altcorp.com/AffinityLaboratory/rcttreatment.htm
http://www.curezone.com/dental/
http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm#treatment
Q: What is the worst treatment done by dentists?
A: While mercury is toxic and can do terrible things to nerve tissue, it does it slowly over decades. The treatment that can have the biggest and fastest impact on the body is root canal therapy. The idea of keeping a dead, infected organ in the body is only thought to be a good idea by dentists. A root canal-treated tooth always negatively affects your immune system.
http://www.cfsn.com/maz/
snipping to the root canal.
Upon examination of my x-rays it became apparent there were still four crowns likely to have amalgam buildups, and one tooth, a lower incisor that had a retrograde mercury amalgam. This root end amalgam had been installed by an endodontist who had done root surgery to place a root canal in the tooth. The lower jaw area near this tooth was giving me discomfort. But there were no signs of infection discovered by x-ray. After a long agonizing debate with myself, having considered both options -- new work by yet another endodontist, or extraction, I decided to have the tooth extracted. Below you can see photos of the root end of the extracted tooth.
Every dental expert to whom I have shown this tooth has agreed that removing the tooth was a very good decision. It looks to most as though the tooth and amalgam had been under direct assault by my immune system which was carrying the filling and tooth away bit by bit. By viewing the images below and my x-ray from 1990, one can see noticeable amounts of material missing.
[see pictures]. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Never mind Peter Bowditch who stalks me from group to group to harrass. Because he is angry that I have exposed him many times for lying.
Peter Bowditch - 15 Dec 2006 22:32 GMT >Never mind Peter Bowditch who stalks me from group to group to harrass. >Because he is angry that I have exposed him many times for lying. KACHING!! $1
I subscribe to several newsgroups, one of which happens to be sci.med.dentistry. If (make that when) Jan posts nonsense, I am as entitled as the next person to respond. As for me stalking her, when she appeared in some diabetes groups supporting the anti-aspartame loons I was accused of bringing her there. It almost goes without saying that she has never exposed me for lying even once, let alone many times.
Readers in sci.med.dentistry might not understand what "KACHING!!' means above. Jan has been assisting me to raise money for the Australian Council Against Health Fraud. How this works is I donate money to ACAHF every time Jan commits one of a list of Usenet offences. My ideal is, of course, to have to donate nothing, and the November campaign appeared to extinguish some behaviours. (The total donation for November was $55, for which ACAHF thanks Jan very much.)
Here is the December list of offences and donation amounts:
Mentioning Dr Wilson in any context - $5 Providing a link to an anti-vaccination liar web site - $5 Providing a link to a Scientology or CCHR-related web site - $5 Mentioning a *gang* (TING) - $1 Calling me a liar - $1 Adding nothing to a discussion except to claim that someone else has added nothing (even if they actually did add something) - $1 Using the word "disbar" or any of its derivatives - $1 Using the tautology "mercury amalgam" - $1 Using the name Rosalind to refer to anyone who is not named Rosalind - $1
It is encouraging to see that she has refrained from committing some of these offences, so perhaps the campaign is working.
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Jan - 17 Dec 2006 02:06 GMT > >Never mind Peter Bowditch who stalks me from group to group to harrass. > >Because he is angry that I have exposed him many times for lying. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > sci.med.dentistry. If (make that when) Jan posts nonsense, I am as > entitled as the next person to respond. What nonsense? Prove it.
As for me stalking her, when
> she appeared in some diabetes groups supporting the anti-aspartame > loons I was accused of bringing her there. It almost goes without > saying that she has never exposed me for lying even once, let alone > many times. I am not subscribed to any diabetes groups, and Peter knows it.
> Readers in sci.med.dentistry might not understand what "KACHING!!' > means above. Jan has been assisting me to raise money for the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Using the name Rosalind to refer to anyone who is not named Rosalind - > $1 Good job, Peter. Thanks for showing exactly how you lie.
Now lets look at the original post and number of things he was going to Kaching.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/09334be65976d755
Oct 31 2006
Subject: KACHING! time again
I will donate $5 to the Australian Council Against Health Fraud for every time Jan uses Dr Wilson or Ben Kolb to divert the discussion away from the dangers of quackery during November 2006.
I will also donate $1 for every time she calls me a liar without evidence during the month.
I encourage everyone to join in. Donations can be made at http://www.acahf.org.au/donations.htm
That reminds me - I will also donate $1 every time Jan misuses the word "spam". -- Peter Bowditch
> It is encouraging to see that she has refrained from committing some > of these offences, so perhaps the campaign is working. Campaign starter of Kaching.
Rich Shewmaker (who doesn't give a damn if Peter lies to this ng (mha) his mother, or the pope).
Started because I posted the lies and proved them, just as I am now.
Didn't work then, not working now.
I will continue to post and prove EVERY SINGLE LIE. PERIOD.
Peter makes it so easy.
Now he can show and prove the nonsense I posted. Including new ones
http://www.altcorp.com/AffinityLaboratory/rcttreatment.htm
http://www.tldp.com/issue/157-8/157rootc.htm
Surprisingly it's composed of little tiny tubules, and those tubules are so small that if we took our smallest front tooth and stretched it out - stretched those tubules out end to end - it would stretch out for a distance of 3 miles. Now what happens is when you get a cavity in a tooth and the decay gets into the dentin of the tooth the bacteria that are involved in the decay process get into those tubules. I should tell you that initially those tubules carry a fluid and that that fluid carries nutriments and the nutriments in those dentin tubules keep the tooth alive and healthy. And those nutriments come from the nerve and the blood vessels that come into the root canal of the tooth. And so fundamentally what happens when you get a deep cavity and it exposes the nerve of the tooth, those bacteria get into all of those dentin tubules and they remain in there causing infection and eventually they can escape and that's a story in itself. They can escape in what's known as the lateral canals and there toxins can actually escape directly through the root surface into what's called the peridontal membrane or ligament. This is a hard fibrous tissue which holds the tooth in the bony socket, and when the infection gets into there it transfers easily into the bony socket and from there the bacteria and the bacterial toxins can get into the surrounding bone and the blood supply of that surrounding bone. And now this acts much like cancer cells, you know cancer cells metastasize and that means that they travel around the body in the bloodstream and they get to another tissue, gland or organ and they set up a new cancer. Well these bacteria from infected dentin tubules also travel around and metastasize in the same way and they can get into the various tissue. Those bacteria are kind of like people, you know, if they get to like Seattle or Reno or someplace they decide that's where they're going to have their home, well the bacteria traveling around the body, they may get to the liver, the kidneys or the heart or the eyes or some other tissue and they set up an infection in that area. So this is exactly what happens and why the degenerative diseases occur from these teeth.
http://www.curezone.com/dental/root_canal.html
MJ You're assuming that ALL root-filled teeth harbor bacteria and/or other infective agents?
GM Yes. No matter what material or technique is used - and this is just as true today - the root filling shrinks minutely, perhaps microscopically. Further and this is key - the bulk of solid appearing teeth, called the dentin, actually consists of miles of tiny tubules. Microscopic organisms lurking in the maze of tubules simply migrate into the interior of the tooth and set up housekeeping. A filled root seems to be a favorite spot to start a new colony.
One of the things that makes this difficult to understand is that large, relatively harmless bacteria common to the mouth, change and adapt to new conditions. They shrink in size to fit the cramped quarters and even learn how to exist (and thrive!) on very little food. Those that need oxygen mutate and become able to get along without it. In the process of adaptation these formerly friendly "normal" organisms become pathogenic (capable of producing disease) and more virulent (stronger) and they produce much more potent toxins.
Today's bacteriologists are confirming the discoveries of the Price team of bacteriologists. Both isolated in root canals the same strains of streptococcus, staphylococcus and spirochetes.
MJ Is everyone who has ever had a root canal filled made ill by it?
GM No. We believe now that every root canal filling does leak and bacteria do invade the structure. But the variable factor is the strength of the person's immune system. Some healthy people are able to control the germs that escape from their teeth into other areas of the body. We think this happens because their immune system lymphocytes (white blood cells) and other disease fighters aren't constantly compromised by other ailments. In other words, they are able to prevent those new colonies from taking hold in other tissues throughout the body. But over time, most people with root filled teeth do seem to develop some kinds of systemic symptoms they didn't have before.
MJ It's really difficult to grasp that bacteria are imbedded deep in the structure of seemingly-hard, solid looking teeth.
GM I know. Physicians and dentists have that same problem, too. You really have to visualize the tooth structure - all of those microscopic tubules running through the dentin. In a healthy tooth, those tubules transport a fluid that carries nourishment to the inside. For perspective, if the tubules of a front single-root tooth, were stretched out on the ground they'd stretch for three miles!
A root filled tooth no longer has any fluid circulating through it, but the maze of tubules remains. The anaerobic bacteria that live there seem remarkably safe from antibiotics. The bacteria can migrate out into surrounding tissue where they can "hitch hike" to other locations in the body via the bloodstream. The new location can be any organ or gland or tissue, and the new colony will be the next focus of infection in a body plagued by recurrent or chronic infections.
All of the "building up" done to try to enhance the patient's ability to fight infections - to strengthen their immune system - is only a holding action. Many patients won't be well until the source of infection - the root canal tooth - is removed.
MJ I don't doubt what you're saying, but can you tell us more about how Dr. Price could be sure that arthritis or other systemic conditions and illnesses really originated in the teeth - or in a single tooth?
GM Yes. Many investigations start with the researcher just being curious about something - and then being scientifically careful enough to discover an answer, and then prove it's so, many times over. Dr. Price's first case is very well documented. He removed an infected tooth from a woman who suffered from severe arthritis. As soon as he finished with the patient, he implanted the tooth beneath the skin of a healthy rabbit. Within 48 hours the rabbit was crippled with arthritis!
http://www.midnightcafe.com/alzh/endnotes.html
19. Dentin Tubules: The tooth structure is porous and dental tubules (hollow tubes) within a single tooth are approximately three miles in length. Eight bacteria fit side by side within one dentin tubule, which makes bacteria difficult to eradicate. It is not uncommon for cavitations to become reinfected. X-rays revealed I have six to eight reinfected cavitations.
20. Cavitations: Infected areas within the jawbone.
21. Bone necrosis: Disease caused in healthy cells due to direct contact with any agent (usually living organism) capable of producing infection.
http://www.carondevita.com/dentaldebate.html
Dentists do not generally consider this a problem as they are taught that the tooth is basically dead anyway except for that little bit of nerve in the root area. However, although it appears to be a solid, very hard substance, dentin in fact has many dentinal tubules. They are so tiny that a single tooth has as much as three miles of tubules
http://www.tldp.com/issue/157-8/157rootc.htm
Surprisingly it's composed of little tiny tubules, and those tubules are so small that if we took our smallest front tooth and stretched it out - stretched those tubules out end to end - it would stretch out for a distance of 3 miles. Now what happens is when you get a cavity in a tooth and the decay gets into the dentin of the tooth the bacteria that are involved in the decay process get into those tubules. I should tell you that initially those tubules carry a fluid and that that fluid carries nutriments and the nutriments in those dentin tubules keep the tooth alive and healthy. And those nutriments come from the nerve and the blood vessels that come into the root canal of the tooth. And so fundamentally what happens when you get a deep cavity and it exposes the nerve of the tooth, those bacteria get into all of those dentin tubules and they remain in there causing infection and eventually they can escape and that's a story in itself. They can escape in what's known as the lateral canals and there toxins can actually escape directly through the root surface into what's called the peridontal membrane or ligament. This is a hard fibrous tissue which holds the tooth in the bony socket, and when the infection gets into there it transfers easily into the bony socket and from there the bacteria and the bacterial toxins can get into the surrounding bone and the blood supply of that surrounding bone. And now this acts much like cancer cells, you know cancer cells metastasize and that means that they travel around the body in the bloodstream and they get to another tissue, gland or organ and they set up a new cancer. Well these bacteria from infected dentin tubules also travel around and metastasize in the same way and they can get into the various tissue. Those bacteria are kind of like people, you know, if they get to like Seattle or Reno or someplace they decide that's where they're going to have their home, well the bacteria traveling around the body, they may get to the liver, the kidneys or the heart or the eyes or some other tissue and they set up an infection in that area. So this is exactly what happens and why the degenerative diseases occur from these teeth.
http://www.carondevita.com/dentaldebate.html
Dentists do not generally consider this a problem as they are taught that the tooth is basically dead anyway except for that little bit of nerve in the root area. However, although it appears to be a solid, very hard substance, dentin in fact has many dentinal tubules. They are so tiny that a single tooth has as much as three miles of tubules
wingingit - 17 Dec 2006 05:58 GMT ...nothing relevant to the multiple groups she added in her reply. Please stop crossposting to irrelevant newsgroups, Jan.
<snipped>
w
Peter Bowditch - 17 Dec 2006 12:16 GMT >> >Never mind Peter Bowditch who stalks me from group to group to harrass. >> >Because he is angry that I have exposed him many times for lying. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >I am not subscribed to any diabetes groups, and Peter knows it. So are you saying that you have never posted anything to, eg, alt.support,diabetes? Think carefully before you answer, because I can always do a search of Google Groups.
Is aspartame one of the things you have never posted to a.s.d. about?
>> Readers in sci.med.dentistry might not understand what "KACHING!!' >> means above. Jan has been assisting me to raise money for the [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Good job, Peter. Thanks for showing exactly how you lie. KACHING!! $1
>Now lets look at the original post and number of things he >was going to Kaching. > >http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/09334be65976d755 > >Oct 31 2006 I am going to say this very slowly, so that there is no mistake about what I am saying.
The URL above and the date following it refer to what was going to happen in November, 2006. The words which you said show "exactly" how I "lie" do not come from that post. They come from the post at http://groups.google.com/group/misc.health.alternative/msg/9dd138eccbac712d
(Observant readers will note that the title I gave was "December KACHING!!". When Jan responded, she changed the title to "Peter Bow-itch is obsessed with Jan & Jan Drew".)
>Subject: KACHING! time again > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >That reminds me - I will also donate $1 every time Jan misuses the >word "spam". The post was cut off here in my reply because Jan had included the "-- " from the start of my sig (without indicating that it was a quote), and as I use a proper newsreader it did what it is supposed to do.
It didn't matter anyway, because most of the remainder of what Jan had to say could have been summarised as:
<snip kilobytes of idiocy about root canals>
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Sammybaby - 17 Dec 2006 14:36 GMT the body tries to isolate the dead root canaled tooth to prevent the focal infection from sending sh.t into the body. After I got a root canal I developed symptoms of rheumatoid arthritis. The doctors were stunned when I tested negative for everything in the whole Rheumatology family, including things like Lime disease and other more rare things that have similar symptoms. I continuously googled my symptoms, adding negative signs for each disease I tested negative for. Amazingly enough root canals came up. I read about alternative dental ideas about root canals and treated myself with very strong herbal antibiotics both locally on the dead tooth and internally. My symptoms fairly rapidly went away. This after months of intense pain in my joints, severe enough so that lifting a leg to take a step up meant I had to hang on the wall and groan as I lifted the leg with my hands. Of course most people will not have such a severe reaction to a root canal, but they do contribute to challenging the immune system on a regular basis. Your body must fight the biproducts of this procedure all the time.
And that ain't good.
The doctors, and there were quite a few by the end of it, were confused by both my illness and my recovery.
> > >Never mind Peter Bowditch who stalks me from group to group to harrass. > > >Because he is angry that I have exposed him many times for lying. [quoted text clipped - 271 lines] > miles of > tubules Jan Drew - 17 Dec 2006 23:37 GMT > the body tries to isolate the dead root canaled tooth to prevent the > focal infection from sending sh.t into the body. After I got a root [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > The doctors, and there were quite a few by the end of it, were confused > by both my illness and my recovery. Indeed. Thank you for sharing.
>> > >Never mind Peter Bowditch who stalks me from group to group to >> > >harrass. [quoted text clipped - 272 lines] >> miles of >> tubules Tony Bad - 18 Dec 2006 14:37 GMT > > > Sorry, you feel it is crap. Means to me you really don't want to know > > > the truth and risks about root canals. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > been here much > longer than you. Your total posts here are four. ...and it only took 4 posts to figure you out.
T
Jim Leonard - 18 Dec 2006 17:47 GMT > You haven't a clue as to a usenet troll. As a metter of fact, I have > been here much > longer than you. Your total posts here are four. My total posts on USENET are in the thousands since 1992. Enjoy searching.
> My alternative is listed on the websites I posted. Extraction is much > better than > keeping a *dead* tooth which can lead to all kinds of problems. But what about the problems of excessive extraction? If extraction was much better, then why not extract all teeth at an early age and just fit dentures?
(I'll answer for you: Because the bone recedes, leading to even more problems.)
> Never mind Peter Bowditch who stalks me from group to group to harrass. > Because he is angry that I have exposed him many times for lying. But you never specifically list what he's lying about. All you do is scream "LIES!" and then link to websites.
Peter Bowditch - 18 Dec 2006 20:45 GMT >> You haven't a clue as to a usenet troll. As a metter of fact, I have >> been here much [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >But you never specifically list what he's lying about. All you do is >scream "LIES!" and then link to websites. You're in even more trouble now, "only four times" Jim. You've outed yourself as a *gang* member (TING).
 Signature Peter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Patrick Melton - 12 Dec 2006 19:04 GMT > I thought you said you only had $450 in coverage left for this year. > Assuming your insurance pays at least 50% of the charges for the root > canal, that alone will eat up your remaining benefit for this year. My dental insurance will pay $450 more this year total for any dental work. So I'll get this root canal and have to pay the rest out of pocket. It's not a problem, I just want to get it done before Jan 1st to get the $450. I'll need my full allowed coverage for 2007 to replace the crowns on #8 and #9.
So you stated $1000-$1200 before - does this include a crown or cap? Just trying to get an idea of what this will cost me.
> Generally if both 8 and 9 have been crowned years ago and one needs to > be redone, you will indeed get a much better result if they are both > redone--esp. if they are done simultaneously. This is what I'll do then.
> > Are there any downfalls to this? I feel like they are killing a > > perfectly good tooth just because of a cavity. Are there any risks to > > this procedure? > > Which tooth are you talking about here? The root canal on #31. You've made me feel a little better about it. I was just kind of freaking out about complications and the pain that could come after the procedure by reading some experiences here.
Thanks for your help.
PS - What's with all this crap posted by "Jan"? It doesn't seem to be specific to anything I asked and a string of endless links doesn't really mean anything to me.
carabelli - 12 Dec 2006 21:16 GMT "Patrick Melton" <patrickmelton@gmail.com> wrote.........
> PS - What's with all this crap posted by "Jan"? It doesn't seem to be > specific to anything I asked and a string of endless links doesn't > really mean anything to me. Usenet's equivalent of tinnitus
carabelli
Tony Bad - 13 Dec 2006 13:47 GMT > PS - What's with all this crap posted by "Jan"? It doesn't seem to be > specific to anything I asked and a string of endless links doesn't > really mean anything to me. It is proof you can find links to support almost any hypothesis...nothing more. Get dental advice from people who know dentistry, which Dr. Steve has provided.
T
Jan - 13 Dec 2006 17:37 GMT > > PS - What's with all this crap posted by "Jan"? It doesn't seem to be > > specific to anything I asked and a string of endless links doesn't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > T LOL! You might note the sites I posted are written by dentists, personal experiences, and researchers.
Jan - 12 Dec 2006 16:39 GMT > I've never been a fan of the dentist. I'm 27 years old. I'm a bit of a > baby - can't stand needles, pain, and I really psych myself out about [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > this everyday and I have nothing to worry about. But I only want to > hear that if it's the truth! http://www.toothwisdom.net/r.root_canals.html
http://www.integratedhealthpractice.com/treatment.asp#Root
ll root cancel fillings have the potential to casue bad health. This is because, althought the nerve has been removed, bacteria still colonise in the minute tubules of a tooth. These bacteria produce toxins which enter the body causing potential harm. An area of residual infection which is left under the gum, usually following, but sometimes a long time after an extraction can cause problems. Symptoms can be coincided with the energetic links to the body as well as localised problems.
http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/RCTframeset.htm
http://www.ericdavisdental.com/root_canals.htm
http://www.drshankland.com/rootcanal.html
http://webpages.charter.net/kyarbrough/rootcanals.htm
http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm
http://www.cfsn.com/maz/
http://cnorman.best.vwh.net/blazing/dental.html
http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm
http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/root_therapies.htm
http://zap.intergate.ca/root.html
http://www.dentistryholistic.com/education.html
http://www.karlloren.com/ultrasound/p25.htm
http://www.bikerchick.freehomepage.com/custom2.html
http://www.wholebodymed.com/library_education_details.php?pid=42
http://www.hallvtox.dircon.co.uk/hallvt.html
Root Canals. A tooth has miles of tiny canals running through the root. A dead or root filled tooth will have bacteria in these canals. There is no way of removing the bacteria once they are in there.
http://www.toothwisdom.net/
Toxicity from Root Canals
The next subject to be discussed are root canals and their possible source of toxicity. Approximately twenty five million Americans undergo root canal therapy every year in an effort to prevent the loss of teeth that have abscessed. The root canal is the left portion of the tooth which houses the vital organs such as the nerve and blood vessels. The dentist endeavors to clean and sterilize this canal and fill it with a sterile, non toxic inert material. This usually renders this tooth serviceable and non painful; however, the entire inner hard core of the tooth is made of dentin which has several million dentinal tubules. These tubules allow the circulation of lymphatic type fluid to circulate from the vital organs of the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This is a viable circulatory phenomenon which has a purpose. It services the periodontal ligament as well as the sensory aspect of the nerve and blood centers in the root canal. If the body chemistry is healthy, the flow of lymphatic fluid is from the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This creates an irrigation for the tooth and usually prevents the accumulation of plaque to form. When the body chemistry is not healthy, then the circulation is from the outside of the tooth to the inner root canal. This allows for no irrigation, but rather an accumulation of plaque to form. There are many more reasons for maintaining the integrity of the circulation in the dentinal tubules. Root canal therapy completely destroys this integrity, and what happens to the non-circulating fluid in these tubules? This fluid as it ages becomes stagnant and becomes a toxic substance. This porous structure now becomes a septic mass emanating poisons into the body. Is this what you
want? Mercury amalgams are said to be the caskets of the body. Root canals are said to be the cadavers of the body.
I do not recommend root canals for anyone. Each individual has a right to their decisions. Many people simply do not wish to lose a member of their body. I respect this, and I always discuss the consequences.
The next area of discussion is whether the root canal filling actually sterilizes the apical end of the tooth. There are so many lateral canals at the root end of the tooth where bacteria can harbor that it is unlikely that a complete aseptic condition exists. This, however, is a debateable subject. Again, the complete acceptance of root canal therapy as a viable substitution for extraction is completely and whole heartedly supported by organized
dentistry. You are in violation of the code of ethics if you speak out against root canal therapy. When I was a practicing dentist, I always let the patient make that decision after explaining all pros and cons.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
>California Judge Approves Landmark Warning on Mercury Use in Dentistry. >(San Francisco, CA) - For the first time anywhere, dentists will be [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] >415-225-7970; call Attorney Shawn Khorrami at 818-947-5111. >### Jan
|
|
|