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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / September 2006

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Not happy with dental work

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kenyadee - 23 Aug 2006 21:38 GMT
This problem goes wya back.  I had a dentist I loved, but she stopped taking
my insurance, so I went back to a practice I had formerly used.  They
assigned me a dentist, but I didn't like him.  Among other things, he had a
full conversation with the assistant while working on my teeth - and the
conversation was about a former dentist at the practice that was suing them.

So I got another dentist within the practice.  I really liked her manner,
although everything with her seemed to take a long time and there always
seemed to be a problem with the "ropes" they use around a crown or with pain
after a filling.  

In Fall 2004, she put in a porcelain crown on a back tooth.  In December of
that year it fell out.  They replaced it at no charge with a gold crown.  

Fall 2005, I started having problems in that same area - it felt weird,
tasted strange, and generally did not feel right.  Because we were evacuated
from Katrina, I didn't get around to seeing a dentist until we got back in
January.  The practice had flooded but I went to another location.  My
dentist had relocated, so I saw a new one.  

He said that the problem was from an old crown, that I had gotten about 10
years ago.  He said that there was a tiny area that was letting things get in
and causing decay, so he replaced it.  Then he did a full set of x-rays.  He
said I might now have problems with the gold one - that there was a similar
area where it meets that wasn't quite flush that could cause the same type of
problem.  He said that it's very hard to get the crown to be completely exact,
although he said for his crowns he checks and double checks and is confident
of their accuracy.  I didn't have to deal with it now, but to be aware that
it could be a problem.

I was not happy with this and asked about my records.  They said that the
records at the old location were destroyed but they might have some on a
CDRom that had been saved, and to check on my next visit.  I tried to make an
appointment but the receptionist had a question for the dentist and told me
to call the next day.

Of course, the next day there was a death in the family and I had to
immediately go out of town.  When I got back, I couldn't reach the woman I
had spoken to before.  I tried to make an appointment with the person I was
speaking to, but first she said the dentist I had seen was on leave of
absence (which he had not mentioned)  She also couldn't find my file and then
disconnected me.  I was ticked and gave up, figuring I'd find a new dentist.

Except, now I'm getting that same weird feeling again - like something is
getting in there.  I have that same bad taste.  So, I could go to a new
dentist and pay for a new crown all over again.  Or I could go back to this
dentist and fight to get it replaced.  Except, I'm expecting they'll claim
they can't find my file so I can't prove I had the work done (I also flooded).
I almost wonder if the dentist's leave of absence has to do with what he told
me.  

Any ideas????
George - 23 Aug 2006 23:10 GMT
Except, I'm expecting they'll claim
> they can't find my file so I can't prove I had the work done (I also flooded).
> I almost wonder if the dentist's leave of absence has to do with what he told
> me.

Wouldn't your insurance have a record of the work that was claimed by
them?
You should get the crown assessed by someone else, outside that
practice.

Regards,
George
kenyadee - 24 Aug 2006 15:30 GMT
>Wouldn't your insurance have a record of the work that was claimed by
>them?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Regards,
>George

Thanks to everyone for the responses.  It's been very helpful.  Regarding
insurance - the further problem is that I've changed jobs since then.  I'm
not quite sure how to go about getting the records from the former insurance.
But I might try it.

Thanks again!
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 23 Aug 2006 23:40 GMT
> This problem goes wya back.  I had a dentist I loved, but she stopped taking
> my insurance, so I went back to a practice I had formerly used.  They
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>
> Any ideas????

    You really need a second opinion from a good competent dentist.  I
should tell you that I have seen crowns with imperfect margins that
never decay.  I'm not saying this is a good thing, but don't rush to
judgement here--some dentists seem to examine margins with a microscope,
and if you look closely enough NONE of them are perfect.

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Joel344 - 24 Aug 2006 00:17 GMT
> and the
> conversation was about a
> former dentist at the practice
> that was suing them.

Same thing happened to me and it gave me
an idea. I sued the dentist myself and got "beaucoup money.

--
Joel34
The Webby - 24 Aug 2006 00:44 GMT
> > and the
> > conversation was about a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Same thing happened to me and it gave me
> an idea. I sued the dentist myself and got "beaucoup money."

Just out of curiosity, do you remember what I got?
The Webby - 24 Aug 2006 00:47 GMT
In article
<tmjiatroepidemic-1FF013.16444623082006@news-lb-01.socal.rr.com>,

> > > and the
> > > conversation was about a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Just out of curiosity, do you remember what I got?

So sorry .... I should have asked this:

Do you remember what I got and what I got it for?

Webby

PS. This reply post is offered as a matter related to the subject of
"identity theft".
mark - 24 Aug 2006 05:56 GMT
>> and the
>> conversation was about a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Same thing happened to me and it gave me
>an idea. I sued the dentist myself and got "beaucoup money."

How did you go about this ? I posted "Could not get numb enough"
previously in the group. Long story short, I went in with a toothache.
The dentist was very nice but after I think 15 shots of Anesthetic I
could still feel her drilling. I had to walk out and take a break. I
walked around to the back of the building and realized, man , I
haven't cried since I was 18 yo. I am 37 yo.  I took a long break and
went back in. She called for 9 more shots of Lydocaine., Novacaine
etc. On the 4th shot of this round my legs shot straight up and they
grabbed me and held me down. I was shaking . She said "It's okay, this
is where I need to be" After that I didn't feel any more of the shots
but when she started drilling. I felt it big time. She gave up, wrote
me some scripts and didn't charge me. And referred me to a dentist
that would put me under. Thing is, she didn't even touch the aching
tooth, she put a temporary filling on the tooth behind it. And did not
contact the referred dentist. I had to take him my paperwork they gave
me. So he just worked on the tooth she started on. And I was still in
pain. Been in pain about a month until I had the aching tooth
extracted. I don't know if any of this qualifies as malpractice or
pain and suffering. I'm not a "sue happy" guy for sure but now i'm
over $3000  paid out and I think the injection that made my legs shoot
up was in the wrong place. My face still feels numb there at times.
Joel344 - 25 Aug 2006 00:15 GMT
You are alone here. Everyone else on
the planet loves their dentist.

Joel

Signature

Joel344

Alexander Vasserman DDS - 26 Aug 2006 07:38 GMT
This is why your dentist that you loved stopped taking your insurance.
You got exactly what you paid for.
If you are going to choose your surgeon based on his/her
employment/contractual association by your insurance company(which is
interested in not paying anything towards your treatment ie cutting
corners and the clinic has a similar interest because it is getting
paid below market rate due to contractual obligation so that your
insurance company can make a bigger profit margin) this is what you can
expect.
I hope you realize that you did not save a few extra bucks by going to
an unknown HMO/PPO clinic/(assembly line). And now your tooth is even
more jacked up god knows how much. Most likely to fix your problem it
is going to cost you much more than originally quoted by the dentist
you loved but stopped loving because they picked quality work and
reputation vs volume of patients. Having the dentist you love is like a
marriage, you chose to divorce because your dentist failed to negotiate
with your insurance company adequate compensation to provide you with
quality service.
My advice to you is to go back to the dentist you loved and let them
fix your current mess.

> This problem goes wya back.  I had a dentist I loved, but she stopped taking
> my insurance, so I went back to a practice I had formerly used.  They
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>
> Any ideas????
kenyadee - 28 Aug 2006 15:40 GMT
First - the dentist office I returned to was the one that I had previously
used and was happy with.

Second - you are in NO POSITION to comment on my finances.  The difference
was SIGNIFICANT.  Those who make A LOT more than I do, also sought other
dentists because the rates were exorbitant.  

Considering that I'm currently rebuilding a flooded home, I think the "few
extra bucks" as you call it are a necessary savings.  Lose your entire home
and its contents and then tell me you don't need the extra money.  

Your comments are not helpful.
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 01 Sep 2006 02:57 GMT
I guess the house is more important than your body.
If I had a choice house vs a limb or a tooth I would choose the limb or
the tooth a house you can rebuild your own tooth or limb you can not.
There are many people in this world that do not have a house.
Furthermore, I understand you losing everything, but right now that is
just an excuse because you could have had your teeth done before the
flood. It was and still is just a matter of priorities and its
unfortunate but dentistry is not on top of your list and that's fine.

secondly I'm not commenting on your finances and I'm sure the
difference was significant, All I said is you got what you paid for. If
you ever bought a tool from the 99cents store and compared that to one
you bought from snap on tools,... the cost difference as you put it is
also significant and you can too say that you needed this savings
because you were rebuilding your home but guess what the .99 tool would
break on you after a few minutes, why because you got what you paid
for, And you surely would not rebuild your house with .99 cents tools.
So why don't you see that the HMO's are the same as tools bought at .99
stores.
Yes, good dentistry is very expensive and cheap dentistry is harmful to
your health as you have found out the hard way.
I'm not trying to sound like an a.s and I am sensitive to your
situation, Its just that I see people making these mistakes over and
over because they get suckered into HMO marketing tactics meanwhile
they leave an office that offered them good care.
HMO's are worse than cancer, just because you revisited the dentist you
liked the fact that you are now part of the HMO you will be treated
differently by most places because the reimbursement transforms good
dentistry to cut corners and not spend the same amount of time on
detail. Even if you do not have that insurance and the dentist you go
to now sees HMO patients, you will still see that the attention is not
the same and it will always be hectic in that office. And what did rub
me the wrong way about your post is that your priorities did not
include your health because you let a list provided by an HMO decide
irriversible treatment on your body vs the dentist you were going to
and had a good relationship with. Sorry but I see it all too often.

> First - the dentist office I returned to was the one that I had previously
> used and was happy with.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Message posted via MedKB.com
> http://www.medkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/dentistry/200608/1
kenyadee - 01 Sep 2006 15:27 GMT
You know, I came to this site to get a reasonable answer on what to do in my
current situation.  I did not go looking to defend my financial situation and
the state of health care in this country.  If you have an axe to grind on
such topics, perhaps you should look for an outlet where you can write a
weekly column to change the way things are and find a way that all people are
guaranteed good dentistry at all times from all dentists.  In the mean time,
I'll thank you to refrain from unwelcome and unhelpful comments about this
particular situation at this particular point in time.  You are not seeking
to help this person with her situation - you are seeking to push your own
agenda.  

>I guess the house is more important than your body.
>If I had a choice house vs a limb or a tooth I would choose the limb or
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>> Message posted via MedKB.com
>> http://www.medkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/dentistry/200608/1
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 02 Sep 2006 07:50 GMT
I do not have an agenda, I was just pointing out something I see too
often.
The help I offered was for you to go back to the dentist where you were
happy and the office that was not under HMO contract.
There is not much else that could be discussed at this point via this
forum.
The damage needs to be reassessed and a new treatment plan made, then
followed.
Sounds like with your flood situation being your #1 priority it is
going to be hard for you to get anything done at this point.

> You know, I came to this site to get a reasonable answer on what to do in my
> current situation.  I did not go looking to defend my financial situation and
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> >> Message posted via MedKB.com
> >> http://www.medkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/dentistry/200608/1
Jan - 05 Sep 2006 18:59 GMT
> You know, I came to this site to get a reasonable answer on what to do in my
> current situation.  I did not go looking to defend my financial situation and
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> to help this person with her situation - you are seeking to push your own
> agenda.

Sadly, this happens here a lot on smd.

Sorry, you were treated with disrespect.

God luck to you and God Bless.

Jan

> >I guess the house is more important than your body.
> >If I had a choice house vs a limb or a tooth I would choose the limb or
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> >> Message posted via MedKB.com
> >> http://www.medkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/dentistry/200608/1
Ann - 03 Sep 2006 12:47 GMT
>I guess the house is more important than your body.
>If I had a choice house vs a limb or a tooth I would choose the limb or
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>flood. It was and still is just a matter of priorities and its
>unfortunate but dentistry is not on top of your list and that's fine.

That's incredibly harsh.  To say that there are many people around who
don't have a home therefore you don't need one either is amazing.  I'm
guessing that in the priorities stakes, most would put a roof over
their heads pretty high up there and above dental treatment.

Ann

>secondly I'm not commenting on your finances and I'm sure the
>difference was significant, All I said is you got what you paid for. If
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>> Message posted via MedKB.com
>> http://www.medkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/dentistry/200608/1
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 04 Sep 2006 08:45 GMT
That's part of the problem. Most people do not realize that a tooth is
histologicaly an organ and see that they can live without it when it
comes to shelter, yet when they visit the dentist and there are
cosmetic concerns having teeth becomes a need to them.

Personally even though I recommend treatment based on the paradigm that
people do not need teeth/"organs" and that it is their choice. I never
want to twist anyone's arm into elective dentistry. I'd rather inform
people of the problems in their mouth and the consequences on not
addressing these problems. But the decision to do anything I leave up
to the patient. I sit back and watch how some patients make the right
decision to fix their teeth while others make an informed yet wrong one
based on their priorities. Personally If I was not a dentist and I had
dental problems knowing what I know now I'd rather live in the street
longer than lose a tooth because even though people can live productive
lives without teeth, teeth serve important functions in the long run as
to how the digestive system functions based on the foods we can eat and
chew properly, muscle balance, posture, psychological issues,
aesthetics, and longer life for the individual.

At the same time Ann I see many patients with roofs over their heads
not proceeding with dental treatments for themselves yet getting it
done for their pets or getting cosmetic surgery done such as breast
implants tummy tucks etc... as a first priority.
What it boils down is that you can not rely on all people prioritising
dentistry over cosmetics or under shelter, they will do what they want
regardless of what may be logical to do. And the fact is dentistry is
percieved as being very painful I've heard patients compare it to child
birth even though a face lift or nose job has more actual pain than any
dental procedure. It is the neglect of oral care that leads to this
pain not the treatment for it. It is a no brainer that patients will
pick a new car now and postpone a root canal until it hurts, because
maybe they can stall a little bit longer and have their cake and eat it
too.

> That's incredibly harsh.  To say that there are many people around who
> don't have a home therefore you don't need one either is amazing.  I'm
> guessing that in the priorities stakes, most would put a roof over
> their heads pretty high up there and above dental treatment.
>
> Ann
Joel344 - 26 Aug 2006 13:20 GMT
> I'm not a "sue happy" guy for sure but now i'm
> over $3000 paid out and I think the injection that made my legs shoot
> up was in the wrong place. My face still feels numb there at times.

$3K and 15 shots means $200 per shot! Yikes! Too much

--
Joel34
 
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