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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / September 2006Help......What Can Be Done?........New Denture Big Problem With Dentist
Hi, I just found your group, sorry if this is a bit long need to explain. On 4/21/05 Oral Surgeon pulled out all my top teeth, then I went directly to my dentist office for her to put in the Immediate Denture. Only had to have a few adjustments and these dentures worked great, I can even eat steak, hard pretzels, pizza, Italian bread, bagels, without any problems. But they finally got loose, so on 10/28/05 I went in for a liner..........they were working great again until I finally saved enough money to get the new top denture. (I forgot to say I am on SS Disability and the Immediates were $600 and I paid for them in full in cash before I got them put in my mouth) So I went into the dentist on 4/14/06 she said a new denture will cost $750, so my insurance company would pay $150 and I paid $600 cash. So I went for the impressions and fittings every Friday 4/14/06, 4/28/06, 5/12/06, and finally the new denture was ready on 5/26/06. >From the start when she put it in my mouth, I knew the denture was lopsided, and the little slit that goes in the very middle of the very top of the denture for the thin skin of the lip to go into, was way off, not in the middle and to the left of the top of the denture. I told her the color was too light, I did not pick that color being I have all my bottom teeth and wanted to match the bottom. She said all is fine need to get adjusted come back next Friday. I went home and took them out and now I saw how messed up this new denture was, the front 2 teeth were all the way to the right, not in the middle. I do not drive and she is only in the office on Fridays and Saturdays, but I only can get a friend to drive me on Fridays, so I went back the following Friday 6/2/06, she said ok we will fix this and put in a liner, I was there for over 1 1/2 hours, and liner did not do much, especially moving the front teeth to the middle and she tried to fix the slit at the top, but no good. I went home, and just used my Immediate Denture.............went back the following Friday 6/9/06, and I said this denture is all messed up, and the person that made them had to be drunk and I do not want these....................my dentist started to laugh........she said "we made a big mistake, we are sorry, we will take new impressions today and make you a new top denture with no cost to you", she told me keep this denture, which I just put away, I can not use it but here we go more weeks going every Friday for the fittings, until the day new denture was ready. 7/28/06, she put the 2nd new denture in my mouth, from the start I knew the teeth were too long..........she did not even give me a mirror, I had to ask for one, she said yes the teeth are too long, I can fix that...........so she took them out and started to file them down.......to make this story short..................the bite is way off, they only gave me 12 teeth and they are shaped small, and the left side the teeth are smaller then the right, they have not strength to them, to bite food, and the bite is not right, I been back few times and she put the carbon film in my mouth and keeps filing and filing, but they do not work, I choke when I try to eat anything but soft food, I will never be able to eat all the food I ate with the Immediate Dentures, the teeth on the new denture are chipping, each time I use them, I have gone back the last 3 Fridays, and she has to smooth the teeth that have chipped, they are very thin and the gum area is very light weight and thin, I am afraid it will crack like the teeth are chipping...............main thing I can not bite or chew with them, I need those 2 extra teeth to hit my bottom molars to bite, but the whole bite is off. I am going back this Friday and it has been over 4 1/2 months and 1 bad messed up mistake with the 1st new denture, which they admitted to...........and now this one does not work. What are my rights? She (dentist) is resposible for her patient to have a good denture to eat well with right? I can not use this denture. If I knew I was going to run into all this trying to buy a nice new top denture, I would of paid for another liner for the Immediates, they are great!! Now will she give me a new denture? Or can I get my money I paid at least, let her keep the insurance companies money I dont care, I either want a denture I can work with or my money back. Can someone answer me and help me by Thursday, being I am going to see her on Friday, it is 4 1/2 months and wasting my friends day off taking me and waiting for me each Friday, and the whole Summer has gone buy and I still have to use my Immediate Denture with alot of Fixodent to eat. I did not bother this dentist maybe 4 times after I had my teeth pulled and had the Immediate put in for adjustments, so I am not a trouble maker, I did not have trouble with the Immediate ones, and they made the big mistake with the 1st one, but this 2nd one, I can not use, plus how it is chipping already from all the filing down of the teeth, there is no strenght to bite food and the bite is way off, no matter what the black carbon stuff shows her, I know it is my mouth, there is a nice space I am so tired I want a nice new denture, I paid the cash up front and the insurance paid the rest, I think I am entitled to a nice brand new top denture I can talk, chew, bite, eat with. Thanks for reading and for any help you can send my way by Thursday. I have a question for you. Why did you want to replace the well-functioning immediate denture after it was only a few months old!!!? A properly made immediate denture should last minimum 3-5 years with proper relines or rebasing as your bone and gums remodel after the extractions. Sounds like you need a refund of ALL monies for this new "denture". Contact your state dental board if the dentist does not want to refund. Seems like a problem in the wax up stage that the dentist (and you) did not catch. I would consider finding a more competent dentist, and going back to your immediate denture, and relining it every six months. Also consider having 4 mini implants placed to stabilize your immediate denture. Call Imtec Corporation in Oklahoma for a referral to a Dr in your area who does them. You will love them However, the reline and 4 mini implants will run you nearly 2k, but they amazing, and are worth it. Good Luck, Dr Abu Khada al Karak ====================================== > Hi, I just found your group, sorry if this is a bit long need to > explain. [quoted text clipped - 101 lines] > > Thanks for reading and for any help you can send my way by Thursday. > I have a question for you. Why did you want to replace the well-functioning > immediate denture after it was only a few months old!!!? A properly made [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Good Luck, Hi and thanks for writing back, well I had the Immediate Denture for a year, when I got the 1st liner put in after 6 months, my dentist said she could not put another new liner in so when it gets to when it does not fit again, I need to buy a brand new denture, that is why I saved the money again and went on 4/14/06 to get fitted for the new denture. I just spoke to a neighbor, who is an Office Manager to another Dentist where I live, I did not want people to know I had dentures, but I wanted info and am very happy I spoke to her tonight. I was NEVER SHOWN a WAX model....................I never APPROVED any of the dentures my dentist made for me, from the Immediate to the messed up one to the last one.............she told me I am suppose to see the Wax with the shape of the teeth they are giving me, the color they will be, the size, etc. I wrote all this down and I will go tell my dentist this on Friday. My neighbor said that she would even drive me back when she comes home from work Friday if I do not get any satisfaction from my early visit and come in with me to talk to the dentist. At least I know now my dentist does not do her job right, and I never Approved any denture she every made for me. I would like to get my money back and go somewhere else, and change my dentist altogether..........my neighbor said I could go directly to a dental lab and have my new denture made. As for keeping the Immediate denture would be nice, if I could get another better liner to hold them tight so I do not have to use Fixodent twice a day to keep in my mouth, but I know the dentist I go to, would not do it, this is why I saved to buy a new one. I will let you know what happens, after reading this, if you have anymore info for me I would appreciate it very much, thank you again for writing back, it means alot. > Dr Abu Khada al Karak > [quoted text clipped - 105 lines] > > > > Thanks for reading and for any help you can send my way by Thursday. > I have a question for you. Why did you want to replace the well-functioning > immediate denture after it was only a few months old!!!? A properly made [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Good Luck, Hi and thanks for writing back, well I had the Immediate Denture for a year, when I got the 1st liner put in after 6 months, my dentist said she could not put another new liner in so when it gets to when it does not fit again, I need to buy a brand new denture, that is why I saved the money again and went on 4/14/06 to get fitted for the new denture. I just spoke to a neighbor, who is an Office Manager to another Dentist where I live, I did not want people to know I had dentures, but I wanted info and am very happy I spoke to her tonight. I was NEVER SHOWN a WAX model....................I never APPROVED any of the dentures my dentist made for me, from the Immediate to the messed up one to the last one.............she told me I am suppose to see the Wax with the shape of the teeth they are giving me, the color they will be, the size, etc. I wrote all this down and I will go tell my dentist this on Friday. My neighbor said that she would even drive me back when she comes home from work Friday if I do not get any satisfaction from my early visit and come in with me to talk to the dentist. At least I know now my dentist does not do her job right, and I never Approved any denture she every made for me. I would like to get my money back and go somewhere else, and change my dentist altogether..........my neighbor said I could go directly to a dental lab and have my new denture made. As for keeping the Immediate denture would be nice, if I could get another better liner to hold them tight so I do not have to use Fixodent twice a day to keep in my mouth, but I know the dentist I go to, would not do it, this is why I saved to buy a new one. I will let you know what happens, after reading this, if you have anymore info for me I would appreciate it very much, thank you again for writing back, it means alot. > Dr Abu Khada al Karak > [quoted text clipped - 105 lines] > > > > Thanks for reading and for any help you can send my way by Thursday. Hello again, Its good you spoke to your neighbor the Office Manager. She is 100% correct about you approving the steps to making a denture, and I am surprised you were not consulted. Thats a MAJOR step in making dentures! Anyway, dump your dentist after you get all your money refunded. But please, go to a good dentist who will make you a proper denture. They are difficult to make properly, but an experienced dentist can help you the best. Yes, a technician can make them too, but that's not a good long term solution at all! I love dental technicians, they can be godsends (plus my grandfather owned a dental lab), but they do not have the training of a dentist, which is what you need now. Don't waste more money. Get it done right. I am in California, and I have seen patients go to Mexico for dental treatment, and its amazing the CRAP that I see. And then they want me to fix it because they wanted to save a couple of bucks? Good dentistry is not cheap if its done properly. Thats reality. Cutting corners with HMO and PPO plans is not the answer either. Thats probably why your dentist gave you such a piece of junk. I guess they are an insurance mill or something similar, and the dentist is just an employee there. Find yourself an experienced dentist who has their own office and takes pride in their work. Do it right and find a way to afford the mini implants!! They will change your life, if you have an ill fitting denture. I have had patients actually cry in the chair from happiness. You can read more here: http://www.sendax-minidentimpl.com/patient.html or here: http://www.imtec.com Your immediate denture can likely be used. If a reline wont work, get a rebasing. I bet your current dentist won't even know what THAT is! I really do feel sorry for you, in that you seem to have gotten a dental "bad apple". Go raise hell! You deserve all of your money back. Keep us posted, this is interesting. Dr Abu ==================================================== > Hi and thanks for writing back, well I had the Immediate Denture for a > year, when I got the 1st liner put in after 6 months, my dentist said [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > anymore info for me I would appreciate it very much, thank you again > for writing back, it means alot. > Hello again, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > cheap if its done properly. Thats reality. Cutting corners with HMO and > PPO plans is not the answer either. Thats probably why your dentist gave Hi Dr. Abu, thanks for answering again. My neighbor told me if I wanted her to come with me on Friday at 12 noon for my next appointment, she would drive me (being I do not drive, and my other friend that has been driving me for over 4 1/2 can have a break) but most of all she will come in with me when I go and tell off the dentist. I am a bit nervous, I hope it goes smoothly, I have the steps like you said to APPROVE everything and NEVER seeing a Wax of what my denture would look like, etc. So being it is the type of office you said it was, that takes alot of insurances, and it is not her own office, she is from the Urkrain, and so are all the office people there, and another dentist uses the office on the other days, my dentist is only there on Friday and Saturday, so I am a bit concerned that she will say she CANNOT REFUND my Money..........this is why I am going to tell my neighbor to please come with me, being she knows all the Dental Procedures and she will speak up and help me out. I will get back to you either Friday night or Saturday afternoon to let you know what happend. I am sure that the dentist will say she will make another denture and not refund my money, being I hear so many people complaining of her work with Caps, and Crowns and fillings coming out and want money back and I hear the Office Manager say that there are NO Refunds. I could not do anything else unless I get a refund being I am on Disability and on a small income, so I might just have to go through another month of going back there for them to make me a new denture, but I know now.............I must APPROVE the work and see and fit with the Wax Mold of what my teeth will look like before she sends it to the dental lab. >From what you say I would love to get my money back and go somewhere else and reline or rebase my Immediate Denture, it is great, I never had a problem with it, like I said above.................wonder how this Dentist got this denture right? But I love it, I have no trouble with it. So hopefully I get my money back Friday and I can take some of that money and go get the Immediate fixed so I can eat better. I can not afford to get the little implant things you told me about I do not have the money for that, but if I can get my money back from this bad dentist, and take some of that money and fix up my Immediate I will be very HAPPY!! Wish me Luck for Friday, and thank you again for answering and all your help Rosemary > you such a piece of junk. I guess they are an insurance mill or something > similar, and the dentist is just an employee there. Find yourself an [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > anymore info for me I would appreciate it very much, thank you again > > for writing back, it means alot. Can you holler at de dentist -- Joel34 Yeah, this sounds like a case of incompetence in making a denture. Dentures are tricky to make and if you can afford it let a specialist prosthodontist handle it instead of a general dentist, although there certainly are general dentists who are talented at making dentures. The problem with dentures, from the dentists' standpoint, is that it takes several visits to make them. That is a lot of expensive labor time invested by the dentist in making the denture. And if the patient doesn't like the denture, the dentist might play ostrich and bury his/her head in the sand and pretend the problem isn't there and maybe just try to shoo the patient away. "Well, the denture sucks, but I'm too tired to re-make it so I'll just 'f.ck it in there' and hopefully the problem will go away." But the problem just comes back to haunt all involved! It is psychologically and financially punishing. You not approving of a wax model for a denture is a major no-no on behalf of the dentist. OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO APPROVE OF THE WAX MODEL! Otherwise the dentist is taking a crap shoot that maybe, just maybe, the thing won't turn out to be a piece of sh.t. Certainly teeth being way off center is a problem that would have been avoided at the wax trial session and certainly you would not have approved of such a noticeable problem. Politely ask for your money back, and if you may consider going to the state board of dentistry for a review of your case if they don't refund the money. $750 for a denture seems very cheap. Perhaps they used a cheap but low-quality lab to make the denture. The process of making the denture is also tricky and a high-quality lab to make it is a must, although they are not necessarily cheap. Disclaimer: this is all speculation. no firm conclusions can be drawn without seeing the case itself. this is not legal or dental advice but speculation. use at own risk. Any follow up information to this problem? Dr Abu ================================= > Hi, I just found your group, sorry if this is a bit long need to > explain. [quoted text clipped - 101 lines] > > Thanks for reading and for any help you can send my way by Thursday. Hi Dr. Abu, I saw the dentist Friday, and she said she put the wax try-in of the denture in my mouth both times she made these 2 dentures, that there are a problem with, she tried to show me her notes, that she wrote what I said when I saw how great the first denture looked, and then she said on the 2nd one I said they look wonderful hope that the denture comes back looking as good as the wax does. Dr Abu, I am not a idot, she did not do what she said, I was trying to talk calmly and telling her what she did wrong, but she started to yell at me, saying things to be and about me, and how she was a dentist 18 years and how I am upsetting her and more, I just did not hear the rest, she walked out of the room, and I jumped out of the chair, before I got to the room door, the Office Manager and the dental tech that worked on these dentures doing the impressions etc, came in, looking very upset and worried, well long story short, the Office Manager said I can have the money I paid for the denture back, but she could not give me a check until the 1st which is next Friday, when her boss comes in a 9am to pay all of them their salary he will write me up a check and I have to call 9am and find out the time my friend can drive me to the office to get my check and then to the bank so I can deposit it in my checking account so I can get the money back as fast as I can. As for the Insurance company, they can not pay them back, I dont know why, but when I have my check in my hand for what I paid Cash for to them I will ask. If I have to as soon as the check clears, I might just call the Insurance Comapy and tell them the whole story so they know what happend. I will try to find a dentist where I can see if I can get a reline or the other liner you said I wrote it down, to fix my Immediate Denture, until I find a new dentist that has a private office that works with my Insurance Plan. I might be changing medical/dental plans in the next month anyway, so I not sure what to do, but get a reline, for my Immediate and pay the cash for it and when and if I change my insurance plan I will work from there,. Thanks for writing to see how things went, I did not feel well today so just got on my computer. Rosemary======================================== > Any follow up information to this problem? > [quoted text clipped - 106 lines] > > > > Thanks for reading and for any help you can send my way by Thursday. Congratulations Rosemary! Good for you, glad you stuck to your guns!! Now, after you have cashed the check from the dental office, DO call your insurance company. They can force the dentist to refund them the money paid by the insurance. For sure they can refund that money, they just don't want to! However, in all fairness to you, you should get it refunded to the insurance company, so you can utilize those benefits again at a different office. Seems like that dentist had 18 years of doing dentures wrong...... maybe this will make her think a bit, learn more, and be more honest to her patients. A caveat regarding insurance plans. Beware of plans that send you only to a specific office. Thats how HMOs work. You become a trapped patient and have to take what they dish out. Sometimes its better to ask what the cash fee is, many dentists may give you a fee quite a bit lower than for insurance. However, the $750 or so you paid for this denture was a very low fee. Its just that the time and materials to do this properly don't allow for fees much below $1000. Just something to keep in mind. Well, I am certainly happy for you now....... Dr Abu ============================================= > Hi Dr. Abu, > [quoted text clipped - 150 lines] >> > >> > Thanks for reading and for any help you can send my way by Thursday. Thanks Dr Abu, I just hope when I call the office and speak to the Office Manager on Friday at 9am, she did not change her mind, or her boss told her not to pay me back, so until I hear I can pick the check up, I will be a bit on edge. As soon as the check clears and I have the money back in my hand, I will call the Insurance Company and tell them the whole story, and they will do what they need to do to get their money they paid back also. Plus, they need to go over with me what other dentists are in my area that take this insurance, I am not sure as I said in my last post if I am changing my insurance as yet, my Primary Doctor told me she is not taking my present insurance as of the end of September, and if I wanted to stay with her after 6 years as my doctor I have to get GHI insurance, so I did not want to change anything until I got this dentist thing over with. I will decide and see what I am doing about all this, but I have to call this Insurance that paid the dentist 1st and also get them to give me a new dentist just in case I need one before I decide to change my insurance altogether. But, will do this after I have the money from the check back in my hand! I will let you know late Friday night what happend, I wont be able to get on here until like 10pm Friday, but as soon as I can I will tell you what happend. Have a nice week coming up! Rosemary > Congratulations Rosemary! > [quoted text clipped - 177 lines] > >> > > >> > Thanks for reading and for any help you can send my way by Thursday. Thanks Dr Abu, I just hope when I call the office and speak to the Office Manager on Friday at 9am, she did not change her mind, or her boss told her not to pay me back, so until I hear I can pick the check up, I will be a bit on edge. As soon as the check clears and I have the money back in my hand, I will call the Insurance Company and tell them the whole story, and they will do what they need to do to get their money they paid back also. Plus, they need to go over with me what other dentists are in my area that take this insurance, I am not sure as I said in my last post if I am changing my insurance as yet, my Primary Doctor told me she is not taking my present insurance as of the end of September, and if I wanted to stay with her after 6 years as my doctor I have to get GHI insurance, so I did not want to change anything until I got this dentist thing over with. I will decide and see what I am doing about all this, but I have to call this Insurance that paid the dentist 1st and also get them to give me a new dentist just in case I need one before I decide to change my insurance altogether. But, will do this after I have the money from the check back in my hand! I will let you know late Friday night what happend, I wont be able to get on here until like 10pm Friday, but as soon as I can I will tell you what happend. Have a nice week coming up! Rosemary > Congratulations Rosemary! > [quoted text clipped - 177 lines] > >> > > >> > Thanks for reading and for any help you can send my way by Thursday. Dr Abu, I got my check back from the dentist office manger today, finally!! So now I deposited it into my checking and next week when I know it clears, I will call the Insurance Company and tell them, that they should get the money they paid this denitst for the denture, which I do not have a new denture to wear, and please give me another dentist, that has a private office, no more offices where they have few dentists that only come in on certain days. Thanks for your help with this problem..........Rosemary > Congratulations Rosemary! > [quoted text clipped - 177 lines] > >> > > >> > Thanks for reading and for any help you can send my way by Thursday. Keep denture .... toss away dentist -- Joel34 |
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