Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / August 2006

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Dental Implant failed after 2 years...

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
matika@tiscali.co.uk - 02 Aug 2006 23:14 GMT
OK bear with me guys. This is a bit long as I try to provide a good
background to the problem.

I had a titanium implant installed 3 years ago in place of my missing
upper front tooth. I broke the tooth in a fall as a kid and
subsequently had the rest of it extracted in my teens when it got
infected. In place of it I previously had a bridge which was installed
about 10 years ago and before that I used a partial denture.

Anyway about 4 years ago (2002) I decided to 'upgrade' to an implant
and two adjacent crowns (for the 2 other teeth that made up the
bridge). Implant technology was sold to me by my dentist (who is an
implant specialist) like it was one of the easiest procedures in the
world, a cake walk. So I went for it without hesitation. Since then it
has been somewhat of a nightmare and lots of money wasted.

First off I needed 2 bone grafts because there wasn't enough bone
width in the area. I had 2 grafts because the 1st one (using a newly
introduced product that was supposed to be better) didn't work. The
dentist said it seems my body simply got rid of it. So he did the 2nd
graft with the old tried & tested Bio-Oss. After about 8 months of
allowing it to heal and set the dentist checked and said there was just
about enough bone width for the titanium implant. He installed the
implant and everything sailed OK from then on and about 10 months later
I had the crown put in place. So the whole procedure took almost 2
years before the crown was eventually installed on the implant!

Anyway I was happy to have my implant and crown at last and followed
all instructions diligently in terms if cleaning and getting dental
checkups every 3 months.  I don't smoke, take drugs or any
medications. I'm a healthy fit man in my early 30s.

I had the implant for about 2 years without any issues. Then about a
year ago I began to get a strong taste in mouth.  I later found out the
taste was from the gums around the front crown (the one with the
implant). When I rubbed the gum above the tooth my mouth would be
flooded with the unpleasant (sometimes salty) taste and it had an
unpleasant smell. Even after thoroughly brushing and flossing, when I
rubbed the gum area I got the bad taste and smell. Apart from that
everything seemed fine with the tooth. The gums around it looked
healthy, I felt no pain and the tooth wasn't loose. I went to the
dentist and he checked the implant by taking x-rays etc and said the
implant was fine. He gave me antibiotics for what he said was a gum
problem.

Fast forward a few weeks later, the antibiotics did not stop the bad
taste. I went back to my dentist several times but he insisted that
there was no problem with the implant. He would take x-rays of the
implant, examine the gums etc and always ends up saying everything is
fine with the implant and there is no infection.

About 4 months ago the situation got worse. At this point I was
resigned to the intermittent bad taste and thought maybe this is just
the side effect from having a titanium implant. Anyway as I was
brushing one morning I noticed a whitish/transparent liquid secreting
from between the gums and the implant crown. When I pressed on the gum
above, more of the liquid came out. It looked like puss and smelled bad
so I quickly visited the dentist again. This time he saw the liquid but
said it wasn't puss. He cleaned up the area and gave me stronger
antibiotics. However that didn't resolve the problem.

A few weeks later he opened up the area and thoroughly cleaned it up
and put more bone graft (Bio-Oss). He said he noticed a lot of bone
loss and a slight bone defect to the side but not directly in the area
of the implant. He said the implant wasn't exposed and there was no
infection in the area at all.

To cut the story short, all that didn't work. A few weeks later the
bad taste and secretion returned.

My dentist now agrees that the implant needs to be removed, however he
says the problem is not with the failure of the implant itself but
something to do with the bone graft that is not working with my body.
He said a lot of the bone that was generated from the bone graft (and
was there during the time he inserted the implant) has now turned to
soft tissue. I find this hard to believe. Can bone that has already
been generated turn back to soft tissue?

Throughout the time I was having bone grafts, before the implant was
inserted, I never once noticed a bad taste or smell coming from my
gums, even when the first bone graft failed. So I find it had to
believe that my body's rejection of the bone graft material is what
is causing the problem here.

My dentist doesn't seem to know quite what has gone wrong, although
we both agree that the implant needs to be removed because there is
obviously something wrong. I have made an appointment in month's time
to remove the implant. My dentist warns me that it would result in a
massive bone defect in the area as the bone would collapse inwards
after the implant has been removed.

I was thinking about getting a 2nd opinion before proceeding but I'm
not sure what another dentist can tell me without access to the full
records of my implant work. Consultations for implants are quite
expensive here in the UK. I don't want to pay a lot of money for a
consultation only to be told I have to go back to my dentist for a
proper assessment of the problem

Right now I don't know if this bad taste in my mouth and what I can
smell when I rub the gum around the tooth is giving me bad breath. It
is causing me a lot of stress and wreaking havoc on my social life.

I feel deflated. I can't believe I spent up to £5,000 on this
treatment that was supposed to be the best option out there only to be
left with this stress, fear of bad breath and now being told that
I'll have to go back to a denture after the implant is removed. Going
back to the bridge like what I had before is not even an option now
because the two adjacent crowns have been hard cemented with crowns.
The crowns would have to be cut to fit a bridge and my dentist said
that could damage those teeth.

Has anyone had a similar experience with dental implants? What was the
outcome in your case?

Can anyone shed any light on my situation from reading my case, i.e.
from past experience or knowledge in this subject matter?

Any tips/advice/information will be very much appreciated.

Thanks

George
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 04 Aug 2006 08:14 GMT
Dear George

This is a terrible situation you are in. I can tell you it is not
supposed to turn out like this and for some reason something is not
compatable with you.
Bio-Oss is a matrix of cortical bone taken from a cow. It is possible
that within this bone mineral is hormones that were given to this cow
during its lifetime. Your body may not be compatible with this type of
bone graft although if you talk to the manufacturer of Bio-Oss they
will swear it is safe and can not be the problem. We really do not know
how much truth there is to this.
I've work with bio-oss all the time and I have to say it takes much
longer for this graft material to fuse with your own bone and having
good bleeding during placement helps. Some clinicians mix tetracycline
with the bio-oss to help with bacterial contamination which you can not
avoid in the mouth unlike heart or brain surgery. Others say adding
tetracycline make the site more acidic and it is not favourable to the
graft.
What I can tell you is this Biooss by itself in 6months still is
destinguishable from your own bone but is hard. Bio-oss with
tetracycline looks yellow with white particles both during placement
and at 6 months. Generally Bio-oss seems to stick around the site
longer than your own bone which would be the ideal choice of material
but will require a donor site surgery such as the chin area or back jaw
bone(ramus area).
If the implant is solid I do not recommend its removal. The surface of
it needs to be treated and a bone graft done again. Maybe the second
time around you should insist on using your own bone(autograft) vs from
a cow(bio-oss=xenograft) or from your dead neighbour(allograft). Freeze
dried bone no matter how well it is cleaned is not vascularized and
hence it is dependent on getting your own blood from surrounding bone
and sometimes taken from your vein centrifuged (PRP=Plasma Rich
Protiens) which helps in the grafts success. Having given you bone
grafting 102 course, you should also consider that either cement got
under the gums which caused this infection, or more likely the
infection is coming from a neighbouring tooth which abscessed sine it
was preppared for a bridge once and then once again for a single crown.
Best bet is to check the lateral incisor since it is a smaller tooth
and could be the culprit.
Do not get discouraged with implants it is still the best long term
alternative you just had a lot of bad luck.  And going back to a bridge
does not mean you can not encounter abscess of the adjacent teeth since
this would be the third time they would have to be preppared getting
smaller each time and the risk of them fracturing at the gum line
increases as well. Also do you happen to know the implant
manufacturer???

> OK bear with me guys. This is a bit long as I try to provide a good
> background to the problem.
[quoted text clipped - 118 lines]
>
> George
Farmer Giles - 04 Aug 2006 08:38 GMT
> Dear George
>
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> increases as well. Also do you happen to know the implant
> manufacturer???

What a very knowledgeable and helpful post. Good man. (I'm lurking
because I'm considering implants).
matika@tiscali.co.uk - 04 Aug 2006 22:21 GMT
>Alexander Vasserman DDS wrote:

Alexander, many thanks for the detailed response. Very much
appreciated. Please see my comments below.

> If the implant is solid I do not recommend its removal. The surface of
> it needs to be treated and a bone graft done again.

This was exactly what the dentist did the last time. He opened it up
and cleaned it thoroughly and rebuilt the area with more bio-oss. After
about 1 week the bad taste and secretion returned.

>Maybe the second
> time around you should insist on using your own bone(autograft) vs from
> a cow(bio-oss=xenograft) or from your dead neighbour(allograft).

To be honest I can't go through having bone taken from another part of
my body for this operation. I've been through so many painful
operations now for this one tooth. I was made to believe it was a very
easy procedure before I started and gradually I have been sucked into
more and more painful and evasive operations. For the past 4 years I
have spent so much time in the dentist chair it is unbelievable. I
regret the day I made this decision.

Right now the adjacent teeth with the crowns are OK and healthy, no
pain, smell etc when I rub or floss the gums around them. All the
problems I'm having are centred around the tooth on the implant. All
the secretions and bad taste and smell comes from that tooth. The gums
actually look OK but there is a constant build up of fluid inside the
gums that is causing the bad taste.

Have you seen this kind of secretion and bad taste/smell from an
implant patient before? Do you think this is an infection and if so how
can it be treated?

BTW the surgeon mentioned that he saw no infection in the area when he
opened the area to rebuild. My dentist doesn't seem to know exactly
what it is and what is causing it. He said it might be bodily fluids
because I mentioned I get salty taste sometimes. A few weeks after the
rebuild work I began getting a very strong salty taste in my mouth,
which remains till today, but not as strong as before. Any idea with
this could be?

I don't know the implant manufacturer but I remember being told it was
one of the best in the market.

I had the bone graft material in my mouth for almost 2 yrs before the
implant was inserted and not once during that time did I notice a bad
taste or smell from gums. Can bone graft take 4 years to suddenly
develop a problem?

The dentist mentioned that there was bone loss when he opened the area.
Any idea what could be causing the bone loss if there is no infection
there as he states?

Thanks again for your help.

George
Bill Gates(Email to me without 'this is not spam' in the subject is directed straight to the trash unread by automatic filters.) - 05 Aug 2006 23:24 GMT
Matt, Alex: thanks for sharing - good info there.
Matt - at least you got cow bone instead of stolen body parts* !
I had a creep break my front tooth long ago. I've had it replaced a
three times with resin - mentioned it in this thread** - every 5 or so
years.
I plan to choose options that preserve as much tooth as possible.
Seems like the smart thing for long term health.
I was pressured to get a whole bunch of porcelain laminates and to have
my amalgm fillings replaced.  I declined the laminates, as the dentists
who suggested them couldn't give me any facts (or anything at all in
writing) on how long they could be expected to last.  There are
apparently no research results showing that they're a good idea.  EBM
(Evidence-Based Medicine) and EBD (E-B Dentistry) seem to be crazy
newfangled ideas in the dental business. I OK'd having one of the
amalgms replaced, and I regret that too - the replacement didn't last
long at all - I had to have it replaced soon after, leading to a crown
and root canal, while all the other amalgms are doing just fine!  I'm
an EBM (Evidence-Based-Man) myself. (Yes, I just made that acronym up.)
Anyway, seems to me that most dentists are filling the demand for
short-term fixes and short-term profits - damn the long term
repercussions.  Respect and kudos those that resist the temptations.

* http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5230544

**
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.dentistry/browse_frm/thread/4eb7522302b35
896?hl=en

Bill Gates(Email to me without 'this is not spam' in the subject is directed straight to the trash unread by automatic filters.) - 06 Aug 2006 04:18 GMT
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/tooth-abscess/AN01405
Get that second opinions and ask specifically about antibiotic fiber
strips and arestin (arestin.com).
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 08 Aug 2006 08:09 GMT
Anyway, seems to me that most dentists are filling the demand for
short-term fixes and short-term profits - damn the long term
repercussions.  Respect and kudos those that resist the temptations.

The problem is you have some crappy products out there and lots of
marketing promising the world.
When new stuff comes out everyone wants to try it some turns out to be
good the rest is junk.
There are some very good materials out there and you just need to go
somewhere where they are being used.
As a patient unfortunately you have no way of knowing about which
materialls are good and which dentist has the proper skills and
knowledge to use these materials.
If you are EBD then you should seek an EBD dentist who will not
recommend or use a new material until there has been some data on their
success.

As far as your question with veneers, if they are done right and you
have enough tooth structure, and you've been honest about your medical
health history, and you do not have some underlining conition, they
should last decades.
Bill Gates(Email to me without 'this is not spam' in the subject is directed straight to the trash unread by automatic filters.) - 09 Aug 2006 19:29 GMT
Again, thanks for your reply. If I move to LA, my thanks will be
becoming a patient.  Looks like you helped a lot of people:
http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=A9vWFBUAAABrr0yNK71koTrBWvnD7AH
FX6yfqVqfFrsd59S0-h0xkw


Yes, there's blame to go around.  I was given a free lunch <sic> by
some drug reps the other day, and then read
http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/submitted/morreim/prescribing.html
!  The HMOs are unspeakable too.  These 2 parties in effect push the
good guys  in a big way to join the dark side (by promoting the
"everyone else is doing it"... argument) too!

I don't envy the dedicated dentists and doctors who actually dig
through the marketing crap (or throw 'em out and read the FDA dislosure
inserts in 6 point type) to determine whether a product is any good.
Buyer beware seems to apply doubly so in medicine.
I read this
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1678-77572004000500004&script=sci_arttext
a couple days ago, and went back to reread it too; I got something out
of it, but there's lots of info in there I couldn't understand well
enough to apply to decision making in my own care.

Are the good products much more expensive (e.g closer to 3x the price
or 30% more)?  What are some of your favorites?  I assumed veneers are
new; are there ones with research (quality peer-reviewed) behind 'em
showing them lasting a long time?   (In the case of my molar crown, it
seems like the porcelain-over-gold crown I chose was the best product
available, but far from the most expensive.)

Flat out asking any dentist if he practices EBD is going to elicit a
yes even if they don't, so I have no idea how to find one.  Pretend to
be into alt. med. and see if they go along?  E.g. say I avoid flouride
toothpaste and see what they say.  Seriously, that's the best (and
only) idea I can think of.  

-RBG
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 08 Aug 2006 07:56 GMT
> >Alexander Vasserman DDS wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
>
> George

I can understand why you are tired of the pain. Removing an implant is
not a pleasant experience and involves the same amount of pain if not
more than taking bone from your chin or back lower jaw(ramus). I can
not make that decision for you. However you still have infection coming
from somewhere and you need to find out from where. Again I suspect the
adjacent teeth. Somebody suggested to get a second opinion, sometimes
that is a good thing. when your doctors are focused on the implant
sometimes you need another pair of eyes to look at things objectively
to identify the problem. It does not mean that your current team is bad
at diagnosing or subpar clinicians, a lot of times it is that they are
too close to the problem to see something that may be obvious. A third
party may be able to help you identify the problem. Once identified it
is up to you who treats it. your current team may very well be
qualified to treat the problem once it is known.
At the same time if you do go get a second opinion, keep in mind that
everyone can look at the situation think they can do better and present
you with a proposed treatment that may involve starting from scratch.
Mind you the new person has never worked on you and may underestimate
your healing ability and success outcome because they are unfamiliar
with how your body responds. If the infection is coming from the
adjacent teeth then you may want to have an endodontist(root canal
specialist) evaluate the vitality of the adjacent teeth.
One thing I can tell you for sure is that it would be prudent to
resolve the infection and let everything heal before proceeding with
more grafts.
matika@tiscali.co.uk - 11 Aug 2006 18:36 GMT
> I can understand why you are tired of the pain. Removing an implant is
> not a pleasant experience and involves the same amount of pain if not
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> resolve the infection and let everything heal before proceeding with
> more grafts.

Thanks for the advice. I have now booked an appointment to see another
dental implant surgeon. I will make sure I get the adjacent teeth
x-rayed and examined to make sure the problem is not coming from there.
I'll also research more on the autograft option.

My main fear is being sucked into more and more invasive (and
expensive) operations to correct the problem only to end up with even
more problems, like having other teeth damaged in the process like you
suspect may have happened with the adjacent teeth.

I'll update the forum on the outcome of my case.
Jacob - 05 Aug 2006 11:56 GMT
Sorry to hear about your problem with your implant.  As you know, NOTHING we
do in dentistry/medicine is risk free, and your story proves this important
point.  I can understand your frustration, but on the other hand, these type
of outcomes do occur, and quite often there is no cogent explanation for
them.

OK bear with me guys. This is a bit long as I try to provide a good
background to the problem.

I had a titanium implant installed 3 years ago in place of my missing
upper front tooth. I broke the tooth in a fall as a kid and
subsequently had the rest of it extracted in my teens when it got
infected. In place of it I previously had a bridge which was installed
about 10 years ago and before that I used a partial denture.

Anyway about 4 years ago (2002) I decided to 'upgrade' to an implant
and two adjacent crowns (for the 2 other teeth that made up the
bridge). Implant technology was sold to me by my dentist (who is an
implant specialist) like it was one of the easiest procedures in the
world, a cake walk. So I went for it without hesitation. Since then it
has been somewhat of a nightmare and lots of money wasted.

First off I needed 2 bone grafts because there wasn't enough bone
width in the area. I had 2 grafts because the 1st one (using a newly
introduced product that was supposed to be better) didn't work. The
dentist said it seems my body simply got rid of it. So he did the 2nd
graft with the old tried & tested Bio-Oss. After about 8 months of
allowing it to heal and set the dentist checked and said there was just
about enough bone width for the titanium implant. He installed the
implant and everything sailed OK from then on and about 10 months later
I had the crown put in place. So the whole procedure took almost 2
years before the crown was eventually installed on the implant!

Anyway I was happy to have my implant and crown at last and followed
all instructions diligently in terms if cleaning and getting dental
checkups every 3 months.  I don't smoke, take drugs or any
medications. I'm a healthy fit man in my early 30s.

I had the implant for about 2 years without any issues. Then about a
year ago I began to get a strong taste in mouth.  I later found out the
taste was from the gums around the front crown (the one with the
implant). When I rubbed the gum above the tooth my mouth would be
flooded with the unpleasant (sometimes salty) taste and it had an
unpleasant smell. Even after thoroughly brushing and flossing, when I
rubbed the gum area I got the bad taste and smell. Apart from that
everything seemed fine with the tooth. The gums around it looked
healthy, I felt no pain and the tooth wasn't loose. I went to the
dentist and he checked the implant by taking x-rays etc and said the
implant was fine. He gave me antibiotics for what he said was a gum
problem.

Fast forward a few weeks later, the antibiotics did not stop the bad
taste. I went back to my dentist several times but he insisted that
there was no problem with the implant. He would take x-rays of the
implant, examine the gums etc and always ends up saying everything is
fine with the implant and there is no infection.

About 4 months ago the situation got worse. At this point I was
resigned to the intermittent bad taste and thought maybe this is just
the side effect from having a titanium implant. Anyway as I was
brushing one morning I noticed a whitish/transparent liquid secreting
from between the gums and the implant crown. When I pressed on the gum
above, more of the liquid came out. It looked like puss and smelled bad
so I quickly visited the dentist again. This time he saw the liquid but
said it wasn't puss. He cleaned up the area and gave me stronger
antibiotics. However that didn't resolve the problem.

A few weeks later he opened up the area and thoroughly cleaned it up
and put more bone graft (Bio-Oss). He said he noticed a lot of bone
loss and a slight bone defect to the side but not directly in the area
of the implant. He said the implant wasn't exposed and there was no
infection in the area at all.

To cut the story short, all that didn't work. A few weeks later the
bad taste and secretion returned.

My dentist now agrees that the implant needs to be removed, however he
says the problem is not with the failure of the implant itself but
something to do with the bone graft that is not working with my body.
He said a lot of the bone that was generated from the bone graft (and
was there during the time he inserted the implant) has now turned to
soft tissue. I find this hard to believe. Can bone that has already
been generated turn back to soft tissue?

Throughout the time I was having bone grafts, before the implant was
inserted, I never once noticed a bad taste or smell coming from my
gums, even when the first bone graft failed. So I find it had to
believe that my body's rejection of the bone graft material is what
is causing the problem here.

My dentist doesn't seem to know quite what has gone wrong, although
we both agree that the implant needs to be removed because there is
obviously something wrong. I have made an appointment in month's time
to remove the implant. My dentist warns me that it would result in a
massive bone defect in the area as the bone would collapse inwards
after the implant has been removed.

I was thinking about getting a 2nd opinion before proceeding but I'm
not sure what another dentist can tell me without access to the full
records of my implant work. Consultations for implants are quite
expensive here in the UK. I don't want to pay a lot of money for a
consultation only to be told I have to go back to my dentist for a
proper assessment of the problem

Right now I don't know if this bad taste in my mouth and what I can
smell when I rub the gum around the tooth is giving me bad breath. It
is causing me a lot of stress and wreaking havoc on my social life.

I feel deflated. I can't believe I spent up to £5,000 on this
treatment that was supposed to be the best option out there only to be
left with this stress, fear of bad breath and now being told that
I'll have to go back to a denture after the implant is removed. Going
back to the bridge like what I had before is not even an option now
because the two adjacent crowns have been hard cemented with crowns.
The crowns would have to be cut to fit a bridge and my dentist said
that could damage those teeth.

Has anyone had a similar experience with dental implants? What was the
outcome in your case?

Can anyone shed any light on my situation from reading my case, i.e.
from past experience or knowledge in this subject matter?

Any tips/advice/information will be very much appreciated.

Thanks

George
JimSocal - 05 Aug 2006 19:24 GMT
>OK bear with me guys. This is a bit long as I try to provide a good
>background to the problem.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>consultation only to be told I have to go back to my dentist for a
>proper assessment of the problem

First off, I am so sorry to hear of your problems. I am not a dentist,
I just come here for information, as I am currently in the process of
getting SEVEN implants! I hope to goodness, I have no such problems as
your's. Fortunately, I do not need any bone grafting, only a sinus
lift, which is giving me some concern.

Secondly, thanks so much for Dr. Vasserman for providing us patients
here with such good informatin re implants and other things!

Now, as I said, I am not a dentist. But as a fellow patient, I would
strongly urge you to get a SECOND OPINION. I think you should be up
front with your oral surgeon, tell him you have been advised to get a
2nd opinion, and that you would like to take the xrays etc. to another
oral surgeon.

Then, do whatever it takes to make SURE the guy you go to for the 2nd
opinion is among the top in the field. Not sure how to find out, maybe
ask at the nearest dental/oral surgery school. Find out who
specializes in implants and ask around who is the best. Then go to him
and explain everything, show all the xrays and get his opinion as to
how to proceed.

I understand that money is an issue. However, this is your LIFE. Beg,
borrow, or steal the money to get this 2nd opinion and beg borrow or
steal the money to get whatever treatment this 2nd oral surgeon says
you need.

I have no way of knowing if the first guy is good or not. He may be
great. However, I do know that Human Nature is that IF he made a
mistake, he is not likely to admit it. That's why you need a 2nd
opinion. Also, if he does not really know how to proceed, he may be
the type to guess rather than to ask for help.

So as a patient who has had much bad dentistry in the past, I strongly
advise you to get a GOOD 2nd OPINION!

Good luck! I'll send positive energy your way.
robertphillips1820@yahoo.co.uk - 07 Aug 2006 13:13 GMT
> Has anyone had a similar experience with dental implants? What was the
> outcome in your case?

Yes, I'm afraid so, although my two implants (front teeth) failed after
eight years despite having excellent oral hygience before and after the
placement, and even though I'm a youngish non-smoker, moderate drinker
and otherwise in good health. Three specialists have been unable to
provide a good explanation as to why this should have happened.

The problems started as a slight swelling under the gum (no bad taste
though), which was diagnosed as being due to a defect in the bone
around one of the implants. The defect was initially treated with
Bio-Oss, but that actually didn't solve the problem at all. In fact, it
seemed to accelerate things, as within two or three months more bone
was lost and both the implants became loose necessitating their
removal.

Of course, that left an even larger defect which needed a bone graft
(taken from my hip) before an attempt could be made to replace the
implants. A bridge is not a consideration for me as all the adjacent
teeth are intact (no crowns or even fillings) and I'm not prepared to
damage those for the sake of two missing teeth. The bone grafting
procedure wasn't too bad at all - it was almost painless where the bone
was placed in the jaw, and there was only moderate discomfort in the
hip area for about a month afterwards.

However, the complication was a lack of gum tissue to stretch over the
newly-placed bone, because this had obviously shrunk where the original
bone was lost. Although the surgeon initially managed to get coverage
of the graft, this shrank back after about a week to leave a nice area
of exposed bone. Six months later, new gum has actually grown back over
most of this area, although there's still a couple of small spots that
are still not completely covered. Although some of the graft has
resorped and small bits have flaked-off over time, it otherwise seems
to have taken which is apparently a bit unusual according to my
surgeon. My whole case appears to be less than routine though, so
perhaps this is only to be expected!

The next stage is to try and place the implants and see if they work
after all the recent fun and games. There seems to be a bit of
uncertainty about the chances of success after prolonged exposure of
the graft, although the remaining bone seems healthy with a decent
blood supply.

BTW - GBP 5K seems a lot to pay for a single implant in the UK.
matika@tiscali.co.uk - 11 Aug 2006 20:07 GMT
Wow if I had read cases like yours before I started implant treatment,
I doubt I would have gone for it. My bridge was OK and functional. I
wanted the implant for aesthetic reasons and what I was made to believe
is a "one-off, life time, solution to missing teeth".

I was made to believe that the implant could fail in the first 6 months
after insertion and if it did not fail in that time then it was a
success and the likelihood if it failing after that time period was
pretty much zero. Now I'm reading stories of implants that were
initially successfully only to fail a few years down the road.

My suspicion is that implants are vulnerable to some sort of infection
or adverse reaction that can set in at any time after the implant has
been inserted and begin to erode the bone in the area. It seems the
infection/adverse reaction is still hard to diagnose i.e. a lot is not
known about this technology yet. As in your case, the root cause of the
problem was not diagnosed, instead it was treated with more bone graft
but the infection carried on eroding the bone, resulting in the removal
of the implants.

Maybe this is what is currently happening in my case (but I hope not!).
Like in your case, the bio-oss recently inserted to address my problem
has not worked and I continue to get the bad taste.

I have booked an appointment to see another dentist for a 2nd opinion.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

G

> > Has anyone had a similar experience with dental implants? What was the
> > outcome in your case?
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> BTW - GBP 5K seems a lot to pay for a single implant in the UK.
robertphillips1820@yahoo.co.uk - 12 Aug 2006 14:34 GMT
> Wow if I had read cases like yours before I started implant treatment,
> I doubt I would have gone for it.

The implants were great whilst they worked, but if I already had a
functional bridge, I don't think I would have replaced it. As I
mentioned before though, a bridge was not a consideration in my case as
I didn't want to damage the adjacent intact teeth.

> My suspicion is that implants are vulnerable to some sort of infection
> or adverse reaction that can set in at any time after the implant has
> been inserted and begin to erode the bone in the area.

My original implantologist and oral surgeon hinted at long-term
problems that are now starting to be seen in the years since implants
became common. Presumably there is research literature about this, but
it unfortunately seems to be difficult for the layman to find.

I did ask about my oral surgeon about his success rate of implants, and
he said that he's so far only had one other unexplained long-term
failure which also occurred around the eight-year mark. If that's the
case, then I suppose that's not a bad success rate, but it doesn't help
those who it does happen to.
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 13 Aug 2006 07:02 GMT
I'd like to point out that once the implant intergrates  it is solid.
The problem is we do not know exactly when the integration process is
completed we just estimate based on statistics of what has worked in
the past and at the minimum amount of waiting time because we do not
want patients to be in provisionals for too long because this can also
be a problem.
As far as infection. If the inegration process is not completed and you
develop infection specifically from an adjacent tooth then this can
cause the implant to fail.

Bio-Oss although an alternative to taking your own bone or that from a
dead person takes much much longer to integrate. The upside is that it
produces very hard bone due to its particle size and quality of mineral
material in it.

When an implant site is exposed or flapped to add more bone regardless
of type or is exposed for another reason such as to clean the adjacent
teeth thouroughly there is the risk of infection and loss of integrated
bone around the implant. because when everything is stiched up there is
some swelling that occurs and the skin puts pressure on the surrounding
bone and causes it to diminish slightly.

Also after an implant is placed if it is not cleaned and maintained by
the patient adequatly you will see periodontal disease around the
implant just as if it was a real tooth. So you need to consider why you
think you lost the tooth in the first place, if it was due to gum
disease??? are you ready to change your habits. If it was trauma that
is different because that usually means or is assumed that you knew how
to take take of the original tooth.
At the same time gum disease is a very slow process it could take 15-30
years for enough bone to be gone before a tooth or an implant is lost
due to this so if you are 80 years old.........  you understand that
gum disease around the implant is going to outlive you. You need to see
everything in perspective.

I am not surprised you are having a hard time finding this information
there are still lots of unknowns. except that for the majority of
people getting an implant it is successful. The rare few that are
having this problem like yourselves there is not much available as far
as answers and guarantees. Everyone has had cases that start out great
then for some unknown reason go a rye. If the patients stick with the
program they eventually get fixed but about 50% that have one problem
after the other give up and settle for something less or they leave the
practice and we have no information as to what happened in the end. I
think that if a decision is made to have the work either finished or
redone is done somewhere else everyone would benefit from long term
follow up information. For example if the implant has been retreated by
someone else everyone who worked on you should be informed as to how
things turned out good or bad and if good and then 20 years down the
road it goes bad for what ever reason evryone should be informed of
what happened. Not necessarily you having to go get an examination but
a short email or letter or phone call would help. This way the
information is placed in your chart and we as professionals know about
what to expect. This will help us to tell the engeeners how to improve
on the future implants so that we can have 100% success.
If things are left in the dark and there have been failures dentists
may switch to other implant systems without actually knowing what is
was about one system that makes it better than the other. I can tell
you in the past there was a good implant out there that intergrated
well however it was made too hollow and when placed in certain area of
the mouth it just broke in 2 or got bent. This implant is no longer
being made but when a new implant comes out manufactures advertise how
great it is only show the positive test results or the studies are
biased and it ends up in your mouth with the promise that this is a top
of the line implant. Then when these things begin to fail for whatever
reason everyone is scratching their heads asking why. I guess what I am
saying is that you are not going to be able to know what implant system
to go with or how well it will work in your body you are going to have
to trust the person who is putting it in. That this person did not just
just on any implant system and asked around from others who have long
term results. No dentist wants to set themselves up for failure it is
not pleasant to hear that something you worked hard on was waorking and
now it fails so in a sense dentists do not just jump on everything the
manufactures recommend until they talk to colleagues who tested the
waters. After all we do need to make progress. And this is why
manufacturers' sales representatives can't seem to figure out why
lasers for example aren't selling like hot cakes.

> > Wow if I had read cases like yours before I started implant treatment,
> > I doubt I would have gone for it.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> case, then I suppose that's not a bad success rate, but it doesn't help
> those who it does happen to.
robertphillips1820@yahoo.co.uk - 13 Aug 2006 10:20 GMT
> Also after an implant is placed if it is not cleaned and maintained by
> the patient adequatly you will see periodontal disease around the
> implant just as if it was a real tooth. So you need to consider why you
> think you lost the tooth in the first place, if it was due to gum
> disease??? are you ready to change your habits.

Not sure if you're referring to the original poster here, but in my
case, I really don't know what more could have been done. The teeth
were lost due to external trauma (random attack in the street) that was
nothing to do with my habits. In terms of my oral hygiene, well I have
a handful of small fillings in eight molars (all of which were placed
at least twenty years ago - and BTW still seem to be in reasonable
condition), but the rest of my teeth are intact. I've had regular
examinations and every dental healthcare professional I've seen has
said I have good hygiene. I don't smoke, drink in moderation, appear to
be fit with no underlying medical conditions, and was absolutely
scrupulous about cleaning around the implants. I should have been an
ideal candidate for implants, but despite that, they still failed.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.