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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / June 2006Lab fees for dental crowns?
I'm having 4 porcelain crowns installed at a cost of $2440. Time was about 2 hours prep and maybe 1 hour more is needed to cement, adjust and complete. Haven't had them installed yet, but I want to work out a payment plan and need to know what a reasonable downpayment would be to cover lab costs? -Bill > I'm having 4 porcelain crowns installed at a cost of $2440. Time was > about 2 hours prep and maybe 1 hour more is needed to cement, adjust [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -Bill usually for a down payment 1/2-3/4 the service fee is due before the work is out sourced to a lab. > I'm having 4 porcelain crowns installed at a cost of $2440. Time was > about 2 hours prep and maybe 1 hour more is needed to cement, adjust [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -Bill I'm sure the front desk is the place to work this out. Every office has different policies, and what might be acceptable to me may well be unacceptable to your dentist. BTW, if the total fee for 4 all-ceramic crowns is $2440, you are getting a very modest fee! Steve > > I'm having 4 porcelain crowns installed at a cost of $2440. Time was > > about 2 hours prep and maybe 1 hour more is needed to cement, adjust [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Steve Yes, it may be modest, but I still need to know the approximate lab fees. Do you have an idea what that might be? I can do the rest of the math. -Bill >>>I'm having 4 porcelain crowns installed at a cost of $2440. Time was >>>about 2 hours prep and maybe 1 hour more is needed to cement, adjust [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > -Bill No. Lab fees, like dental fees vary widely. In any case, what YOU think may be a "reasonable" downpayment to cover lab fees may not be reasonable to them--unless of course the fee was presented to you and they specifically told you they want an up-front payment to cover lab expenses. This is not general practice. Also, the dentist may not know what the lab fee will be, and given the recent wild fluctuations of the price of precious metals any estimate may be wrong by the time the dentist gets billed by the lab. Steve  SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > >>>I'm having 4 porcelain crowns installed at a cost of $2440. Time was > >>>about 2 hours prep and maybe 1 hour more is needed to cement, adjust [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Brooklyn, NY > 718-258-5001 Actually, the total came to $2640 for the 4 crowns, but an older crown came off during the mold impression process, which had some decay, so the total went up another $600 to $3240. They agreed to accept $1000 down payment and $200 a month for 11 nonths. But, I still have no idea what the lab fees are relative to the total charges. It appears that Dentists are reluctant to state the actual lab fees, but since they accepted my offer, I assume $1000 covered the lab? Where would I search on the web to discover the actual lab cost of producing a crown? -Bill >>>>>I'm having 4 porcelain crowns installed at a cost of $2440. Time was >>>>>about 2 hours prep and maybe 1 hour more is needed to cement, adjust [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > -Bill Why are you so curious? You may as well ask what the monthly rent, insurance, payroll are. The reason IMO that most dentists are reluctant to discuss lab fees is that because of a variety of factors (I've got to blame someone, so I'm gonna say it's largely the dental insurance industry ;-)) dentistry has been very much commoditized. As a result, many people view this as: lab fee is $100/ crown; dentist charges $1000/ crown; dentist has 900% markup and 90% profit. This is true if the lab delivers a premade crown off the shelf and the dentist throws it at the patient. Obviously you know (because your butt is in the chair) that there is a lot the dentist does in the process of creating a crown). There are of course many other expenses involved in delivering the crown (as I said--payroll, insurance, rent, supplies, etc. etc.), so pulling out the lab fee as a "fair" downpayment only makes sense if you assume all other expenses are fixed and paid for by "other" cash flow. But no dental office I know does this; in any case in my office my lab bills are paid by monthly statement, not individual invoice. I get paid for some work by the patient, some work by the insurance company. Collecting money up front as a down payment as if it is dedicated to paying the lab fee is a kind of hand-to-mouth existance that I doubt any dental office could survive on. It has more to do IMO with seeing that the patient has made a financial committment and is therefore more likely to continue with treatment. In my office I have no fixed policy on downpayment, but I expect the patient to pay fully before the prosthesis is inserted. This is for new patients. Some patients have been with me for many years; obviously there is an issue of trust here, and if some of these patients who become like family have a problem I know I can complete treatment and they will pay me when they can. In other words, there are no hard and fast rules--not in my office, and probably not in the office you go to. BTW, for a routine porcelain/metal crown, I pay my lab $80 plus the cost of the metal. HTH, Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 We are assuming metal is used for these crowns they could be all ceramic, Lava, full gold etc... Lab fees can vary by as much as 500%, If you really want to know you should ask your dentist. Although this would be highly inappropriate for a service type business. It's like asking an artist tell me how much I owe you for the paint and canvas. What about the time this person put in to make the painting. I have a suspicion that this dentist who is doing these crowns is unlicenced hence the low fee and you just want to know the lab costs for recourse purposes. I'd say if everything is legit then you should pay the amount as agreed upon. And if it is not legit then you could be taking a huge risk which will cost you significantly more. In my office 4 aesthetic crowns assuming no build-ups would run you over $5000 easy and you do not want to know how much my lab bill is. If you believe this dentist will do a good job then pay the dude and move on. > >>>>>I'm having 4 porcelain crowns installed at a cost of $2440. Time was > >>>>>about 2 hours prep and maybe 1 hour more is needed to cement, adjust [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > Brooklyn, NY > 718-258-5001 > We are assuming metal is used for these crowns they could be all > ceramic, Lava, full gold etc... [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > If you believe this dentist will do a good job then pay the dude and > move on. It's not a dude, she's a very nice woman, and I assume she's licensed since I looked her up in the Blue Shield PPO directory. She's done an excellent job for several years, repairing work other dudes did. I have no complaint with the work or the charges. I just want to pay a fair down payment to cover out of pocket expenses she may have, and make monthly payments for the balance. And I don't want to ask for that information since it's none of my business what others pay to provide a service to me. That's why I'm asking here. If this was the year 1999, when the market was roaring, I'd just pay cash and be done with it. But times have changed, and resources are much less, and every dollar counts. -Bill Ok Dudette ;) Bill, Blue Shield that explains the modest fee, they have one of the lowest fees and pay hardly anything. If you want to comp her so that the work gets to a good lab, you need to discuss this with her and offer to pay the difference between Blue Shield fees and her usual fee she would charge someone without insurance benefits. > > We are assuming metal is used for these crowns they could be all > > ceramic, Lava, full gold etc... [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > -Bill > > > I'm having 4 porcelain crowns installed at a cost of $2440. Time was > > > about 2 hours prep and maybe 1 hour more is needed to cement, adjust [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > -Bill I don't think that the approximate lab fees would affect what the payment plan could be. Each dental office has different costs and different payment policies. I can't tell the local grocery store how much to accept as a down payment based upon what I think the grocer paid the farmer. The fact that the cost of your crowns is so very low at only $2440 might possibly mean that the dental office is working on a very narrow margin. Many businesses with narrow margins have an inherent need for full immediate payment as they have little resource to meet their expenses and obligations. As Dr. Steve mentions above, each dental office has to set its own policy. I'm surprised that the financial arrangements weren't finalized before the treatment even started, as that is pretty standard for today's economy. - dentaldoc |
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