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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / June 2006$1300 for RCT "re-do" - does this sound right?
Just wondering why a two hour procedure (by an endodontist, on a molar) should cost this much. We can (barely) afford it, but I saw an elderly woman in the office who could not and had no idea what to do. Didn't seem right somehow. > Just wondering why a two hour procedure (by an endodontist, on a molar) > should cost this much. We can (barely) afford it, but I saw an elderly > woman in the office who could not and had no idea what to do. Didn't > seem right somehow. This is the fee that particular professional requires to make the profit he has set as a target for these two hours. The figure will contain material and equipment expenses, the cost of the premises and staff wages. Among other things, this fee will also compensate the specialist for the 8-10 years he spent studying with only a small income and the debt his studies incured (which is often close to 1/4 - 1/2 of a million). Depending on the area and their circumstances, other specialists may have lower or higher prices. Those that are experienced, respected and recommended, will generally command higher fees. Regards, George >Just wondering why a two hour procedure (by an endodontist, on a molar) >should cost this much. We can (barely) afford it, but I saw an elderly >woman in the office who could not and had no idea what to do. Didn't >seem right somehow. I'd find another endodontist! > >Just wondering why a two hour procedure (by an endodontist, on a molar) > >should cost this much. We can (barely) afford it, but I saw an elderly > >woman in the office who could not and had no idea what to do. Didn't > >seem right somehow. > I'd find another endodontist! Care to elaborate why Jim? If you can afford the cost and the guy is skilled and respected, why not go for it? You can make money in your life, but you only get one tooth. Regards, George >>>Just wondering why a two hour procedure (by an endodontist, on a molar) >>>should cost this much. We can (barely) afford it, but I saw an elderly [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Regards, > George George-- In the states, fees are a pretty open market. There are some lowballers as far as fees. Nothing wrong with this, but generally these are the high-volume facilities. Specialists know generally if they get a case from me it's not easy--either technically, from a patient management perspective--whatever. They know this, and they're apparently glad to get the referrals. This is what they're trained for, and they'd damn well get the job done--or they know I won't continue to refer. My specialists generally get high fees--they deserve every penny. A bum job is never a bargain--not at a fraction of the fee. Steve >> >Just wondering why a two hour procedure (by an endodontist, on a molar) >> >should cost this much. We can (barely) afford it, but I saw an elderly [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Regards, >George Guess I am speaking generalities, but that just seems like too much money to me. So what I was suggesting is that the poster call around for a qualified endodontist who might offer a better price. If one has unlimited funds, then sure, go with whoever can do it well. But if money is an issue, it might pay to call around. I've had a number of root canals and none of them were anywhere near this price. > >> >Just wondering why a two hour procedure (by an endodontist, on a molar) > >> >should cost this much. We can (barely) afford it, but I saw an elderly [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > But if money is an issue, it might pay to call around. I've had a > number of root canals and none of them were anywhere near this price. Something has to be done about the way the dental industry is ripping-off America. The lead post is a good example why. Assuming all the expenses incurred for the RCT "re-do" procedure was $500, the thief wanted to net $400 per hour for the two hours work. Even John Gotti didn't have that kind of nerve. He killed you before extracting your money. Worse still is how dentists are so quick to defend a brother dentist no matter how degenerate his overcharging as we saw here with George, a Brit dentist who the Queen would thrown in the Tower of London, rip out his entrails and burn them before his dying eyes were she to catch him charging a mere 1/4 of what the American crook was trying to pilfer. These guys use drills instead of guns but the effect is the same -- they rob and steal. ricland > Guess I am speaking generalities, but that just seems like too much > money to me. So what I was suggesting is that the poster call around [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > But if money is an issue, it might pay to call around. I've had a > number of root canals and none of them were anywhere near this price. Agreed. If you can't really afford something then you will have to shop around for it. Beware of the real bargains though... > > Guess I am speaking generalities, but that just seems like too much > > money to me. So what I was suggesting is that the poster call around [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Agreed. If you can't really afford something then you will have to shop > around for it. Beware of the real bargains though... Not to speak for Jim, George, but I'm sure he's no longer interested in your advice. Your blind defense of American dentists was not helpful. We're getting killed with their prices here in the Colonies and the last thing we need is a Brit telling us to shut up and pay the damn tea tax. riclandr > Just wondering why a two hour procedure (by an endodontist, on a molar) > should cost this much. We can (barely) afford it, but I saw an elderly > woman in the office who could not and had no idea what to do. Didn't > seem right somehow. Don't believe any of the baloney these guys are serving up, azzure. The prices dentists charge these days have nothing at all to do with anything except GREED! Pure greed -- they're taught in dental school that if they're not millionaires by the time they're 40, they're complete and utter failures. Look, by a dentist's fifth year in business, all his debts are cleared up -- dental school, equipment, the building, if he owns it. Of course there's insurance, but that' far less than MDs pay and today's MD's don't make half as much a dentists are ripping off. So, after the fifth year, it's "let's see how fast I can retire a millionaire, baby!" This explains why if you live in any of the border states, you're a fool to get your teeth fixed in the states. Take a $15 bus ride to Mexico and you save 90 cents on the dollar -- seriously. Oh, and don't believe the hype you'll get here about how all foreign dentists suck. Most of these stateside tooth mechanics got their degrees in Costa Rica and Panama anyway. Well, maybe not most, but quite a few -- and conversely, quite a few Mexican doctors went to school here. But again, the bottom line is this: becoming a millionaire is the Holy Grail for dentists. This means when you ask them a perfectly reasonable question like you did, their answer is based on the premise that what you're being charged is what the tooth jockey requires to retire a millionaire by 40. That's the honest answer. $1300 for two hours work. That's 5200 a day, $26,000 a week, $1,170,000 a year (45 weeks). Ok, let's see one of these laughing boys crunch the numbers. Let's see one of them show us how ""expenses" eat up all the boodle they take in. Don't hold your breath. ricland Well, I didn't know dentists were required to take an oath of poverty when they graduated! Have you actually seen or handled any accounts of dental practices or do these broad figures jump right out of your mind? Can you actually wrap your mind around the words "gross profit" and "net profit"? If dentistry is supposed to make you rich, how come most companies that run chain dental practices do quite badly? Boots had over 60 private practices in the UK, by your reckoning they should be millionaires by now. Instead, their dental sector went bankrupt and closed down a year ago. IDH generated a gross profit of £67m, but their actual profit after expenses was just £2.5m (that's a profit margin of 4%). Its share lost over 300% of its value before it was taken off the market. Of course I doubt you'll be convinced no matter how much evidence is thrown at your face. You strike me as one of these people that are absolutely certain they're right. Your use of derogatory terms like "tooth jockeys" for people you don't know but provided you with advice just shows that you feel envy for the amounts they can earn. > Well, I didn't know dentists were required to take an oath of poverty > when they graduated! Have you actually seen or handled any accounts of [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > "tooth jockeys" for people you don't know but provided you with advice > just shows that you feel envy for the amounts they can earn. Nice Fouth of July speech, but I challenged you to crunch the numbers. You guys don't ever do that. Instead, you all start singing the blues about how even though you gross about $1000 an hour, you still have to brown bag it every day. Give me a break. Are you a tooth jockey? What did you take home last year? Give it a number. ric > > Well, I didn't know dentists were required to take an oath of poverty > > when they graduated! Have you actually seen or handled any accounts of [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Give it a number. I took home £30,000 last year. Maybe I'm not one of the "greedy" ones. > > > Well, I didn't know dentists were required to take an oath of poverty > > > when they graduated! Have you actually seen or handled any accounts of [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > I took home £30,000 last year. Maybe I'm not one of the "greedy" ones. Oh, you're a Brit? That's different. When I said GREED I was talking about American dentists. ric And another thing ... These guys are raking in $3000 to $5000 a week. The average worker in America earns $650 a week. So, c'mon, George, tell us why you deserve $2350 more a week to live off than the policeman, fireman or school teacher you're ripping off for a thousand bucks a visit. Break it down for us, dude. ricland > And another thing ... > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > ricland They didn't have to pay $250,000 and spend 8 years of their life training. What can I tell you Rick? It's an unfair world. A premiership footballer will make in one year more than I'll make in my whole life. The same for a CEO of one of the biggies. Do they do something more important than I do? I am professionally qualified, I run a business and take risks. I expect to be compensated accordingly and I will take the steps necessary to ensure that. I don't believe anyone would say no to higher wages if they were offered to them. > > And another thing ... > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > necessary to ensure that. I don't believe anyone would say no to higher > wages if they were offered to them. What does any of that have to do with over-charging patients? And it should be pointed out, you're defending dentists who make three times more than you -- dentists who won't dare enter this debate because they know what I say about them is true and what you say is false. The story of dentistry in America is one of Greed. Period. ric > What does any of that have to do with over-charging patients? Nobody's overcharging anyone. It's a professional service. They give you an estimate of the cost and you agree to pay it or not. Same thing with a lawyer/car mechanic/plumber/electrician. Overcharging would be to give you a quote and then charge you more than that. > And it should be pointed out, you're defending dentists who make three > times more than you -- dentists who won't dare enter this debate > because they know what I say about them is true and what you say is > false. Dude, I'm in the beginning of my career. I have less than 3 years of active dentistry under my belt. I don't expect to charge/earn the same amount after I get more experience and a few postgraduate qualifications. Regards, George > > What does any of that have to do with over-charging patients? > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Regards, > George You know, George, earning a dental degree doesn't give you license to make up definitions on the fly. We all know what over-charging is, but since you're having difficulty with the concept, let me help you -- it's charging three times what every other dentist (including you) in the world does for the same service. Now why don't you sit down and have a cup of tea and stop sticking up for crooks who are obviously too ashamed to stick up for themselves. ricland No way! Is this the guy you were telling us who sells used cars on the side -- Joel34 |
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