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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / April 2006All these Amalgam and Flouride posts!!
All these Amalgam and Flouride posts are starting to drive me crazy, if you are not an expert in the field, please don't post anything, or keep the discussion in one thread. Just as a note for the public, as a Dentist, I will happly place Amalgam as a good filling material in my family and kids, I will continue to support the use of Flouride in my family and kids. I feel that that they are both a proven methods to effectivly help the public. Dr. Braces Dear Dr Braces, It has been demonstrated experimentally that metal amalgam dental fillings generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 millivolts. See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=2 231160&dopt=Citation The resting potentials of the neurological synapses in your children's nerves are only 70 millivolts. However, it appears that experimental investigations to determine whether or not the electrical potentials generated by amalgam fillings are able to dissipate electrical energy through the nerves in your children's heads have never been carried out. If you have never carried out any such investigations yourself then please stop presuming that you are in a position to approve the use of amalgam fillings in restorative dentistry. Just as a note for the public (and for Dr Braces' kids should they ever read this), I rather suspect that when it comes to the thermoelectric and electromagnetic properties of dental amalgams Dr Braces, as a dentist, is just as ignorant as everyone else. Keith P Walsh Dear Dr Braces, It has been demonstrated experimentally that metal amalgam dental fillings generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 millivolts. See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=2 231160&dopt=Citation The resting potentials of the neurological synapses in your children's nerves are only 70 millivolts. However, it appears that experimental investigations to determine whether or not the electrical potentials generated by amalgam fillings are able to dissipate electrical energy through the nerves in your children's heads have never been carried out. If you have never carried out any such investigations yourself then please stop presuming that you are in a position to approve the use of amalgam fillings in restorative dentistry. Just as a note for the public (and for Dr Braces' kids should they ever read this), I rather suspect that when it comes to the thermoelectric and electromagnetic properties of dental amalgams Dr Braces, as a dentist, is just as ignorant as everyone else. Keith P Walsh most metals have been shown to create electrical potentials, so post some real pear reviewed (scientific journal) research on how electrical potientials have effected humans. You are not saying anything. the sky is blue, so do an experiment to show you should not look at it !??! Static electricity is much higher volts, and there are not warning on carpets now to rub your shoes in fear you be be exposed. Read up on the physiology of the Peizoelectric effect on and it's effect on bone, you will be surprised that this normal effect is requried for normal bone maintaance. > Dear Dr Braces, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=2 231160&dopt=Citation The > resting potentials of the neurological synapses in your children's > nerves are only 70 millivolts. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Keith P Walsh > most metals have been shown to create electrical potentials, so post > some real pear reviewed (scientific journal) research on how electrical > potientials have effected humans. You are not saying anything. the > sky is blue, so do an experiment to show you should not look at it !??! It is the natural function of the human neurological system to transmit signals in the form of tiny electrical impulses. However, it is not the natural function of the human neurological system to be permanently dissipating the electrical energy generated by the amalgam fillings placed in teeth. The widespread adoption of amalgam as a material for use in restorative dentistry was quickly followed by the rise to prominence in our societies of psychiatric "medicine". Perhaps the problems caused by large numbers of people having electric batteries in their teeth are not too small to worry about. Perhaps they are too large to recognise. And perhaps our societies have become dominated by people who are either not intelligent enough to realise the truth or too arrogant to acknowledge it. People like yourself, perhaps. Keith P Walsh > All these Amalgam and Flouride posts are starting to drive me crazy, if > you are not an expert in the field, please don't post anything, or keep > the discussion in one thread. SSSShhh, everyone , the dental Gods have spoken! NO matter that the ADA is to spineless to take any legal responsability for amalgam in court if it were so safe.......their memebers can still tell the public to sssssh......because,... getting a second grade science education in materials science in dental school makes all dentists top Banana when (as Joel would say), they SPEAKeth their Holy on amalgam! > Just as a note for the public, as a Dentist, I will happly place > Amalgam as a good filling material in my family and kids, I will > continue to support the use of Flouride in my family and kids. > Dr. Braces I would suggest you buy a telescope confirm that the earth does revolve around the Earth, then rent a Jerome meter to confirm that indeed amalgams leach off large amounts of Hg vapor continuously > SSSShhh, everyone , the dental Gods have spoken! NO matter that > the ADA is to spineless to take any legal responsability for amalgam [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > materials science in dental school makes all dentists top Banana when > (as Joel would say), they SPEAKeth their Holy on amalgam! This from someone who just discovered there is still volcanic activity on earth. Yeah, we'll count on you for scientific insights from now on. T p.s. Dinosaurs are now extinct....pass it on. > > SSSShhh, everyone , the dental Gods have spoken! NO matter that > > the ADA is to spineless to take any legal responsability for amalgam [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > T Unfortunately that you missed the whole point of that excercise, which is, it doesn't make sense for temperatures to be sustained inside the earths core for so long, unless one realizes the unlikely phenomena of radioactivity. This was on a recent PBS show or something. Apparently you still don't realize how illogical this was without realizing the underlying cause because you accepted what you saw. Obviously there continues to be a lot of Volcanic activity so it must be so. I can't say how I would have acted in the case of amalgam sense I was affected before I even realized it had Hg, but in this case the difference in my logic is clear. When asked this question I responded: "I can't think of a reason why that is (that the EArth doesn't cool off)" your response is (not realize the "radioactive" mechanism) "There are still Volcanos, so it must be so!" While in this case there is a reason for the Earth's core to sustain extremetly high temperatures over billions of years, you probably didn't question the unlikelyness of it. Similar patterns accpetance seem to occur with amalgam becuause hg (Which is oderless, cannot be detected with human eye and is difficult to measure in the tissue) 'appears' to be harmless. > p.s. Dinosaurs are now extinct....pass it on. You mean Jurassic Park was not real? ** Tony Bad Wrote: > > SSSShhh, everyone , the dental Gods have spoken! NO matter that > > the ADA is to spineless to take any legal responsability for amalgam [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > p.s. Dinosaurs are now extinct....pass it on -- Joel34 Perhaps I did not specifically say that it was my opinion. Who are you? what background do you have? >> All these Amalgam and Flouride posts are starting to drive me crazy, if >> you are not an expert in the field, please don't post anything, or keep [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > amalgams > leach off large amounts of Hg vapor continuously > Perhaps I did not specifically say that it was my opinion. Who are > you? what background do you have? I have a background in science and engineering, but You are representing yourself as a dentist. So I would expect your proclimations to be accurate. What you are doing would be like an engineer saying. I a member of the IEEE and I say that microwaves are proven safe! Please if anybody is not an engineer or scientist you have not right to contradict me! Continue to support _flouride_ use for your family and kids, while most of the related posts here will be about _fluoride_. Get back once you know what you are talking about ... ------------------------------------------ "Dr.Braces" schrieb: > All these Amalgam and Flouride posts are starting to drive me crazy, if > you are not an expert in the field, please don't post anything, or keep [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Dr. Braces AMEN. You can be mny dentist. Gail > All these Amalgam and Flouride posts are starting to drive me crazy, if > you are not an expert in the field, please don't post anything, or keep [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Dr. Braces > AMEN. > You can be mny dentist. > Gail This is serious sh.t. Amalgam the #1 daily source of Hg is used in billions of kids. Can't you save the suck up mode for the the other dental list?Amen! > > AMEN. > > You can be mny dentist. > > Gail > > This is serious sh.t. Excuse me. Your sentence is a little superfluous. I would leave out the "serious" . What proof do you have that kids are harmed by amalgam. In all the years it has been used and saved countless teeth, the life span is better and don't know of anyone that can trace their problems to amalgams without a doubt. Can I send you my bills for all the problems with composites. If you know what Crohns and Ulcerative Colitis is, now there is a problem. .. Talk about priorities. I guess the clock that squeaks the loudest gets the oil. or something like that. No insult intended. Your sincerity is commendable, but sme people DO disagree. > Gail > > > AMEN. > > > You can be mny dentist. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > superfluous. I would leave out the "serious" . What proof do you have > that kids are harmed by amalgam. For one thing warnings/advisors in many countries. You think it's wise for a pregnant woment to have Her fillings drilled out? In all the years it has been used and > saved countless teeth, the life span is better and don't know of anyone that > can trace their problems to amalgams without a doubt. There have been thousands of adverse reports , published papers showing correlations with micromercuralism and elevated blood Hg (sometimes even attributed to bruxissm) dozens of lawsuits against the ADA , dentists manufacturers, and one amalgam manufactuer went out of business. You can never "prove anything without a doubt". Can you prove that smoke from a cigarette "really" caused lung cancer? However it is evident that your understanding of mateials is poor and you really don't understand how unstable amalgam is (or can be), otherwise you wouldn't seem so shocked that amalgam could cause problems. This seems to be a common problem with most of the dentists here and it wasn't really clear to me before how simple peoples understanding of materials is. Maybe the best way to approach this issue in the future is to illustrate in more detail, the "real" properties of amalgam with pictures or videos. (The only reason people haven't tried more of this is that even videos showing Hg smoking off a filling don't seem to make a dent in peoples wholeharded acceptence or amalgam stability.) > Can I send you my bills for all the problems with composites. That is a separate issue. > If you > know what Crohns and Ulcerative Colitis is, now there is a problem. .. Getting poisoned with a poorly performing filling is a problem that would have you in tears. Do you have Crohns? I thought that was another poster. If not why bring it up? > Talk about priorities. I guess the clock that squeaks the loudest gets > the oil. . Your > sincerity is commendable, but sme people DO disagree. i guess what irritates me is when people fall in line with what dentists say just because they are dentists. however this is science dental so discussing materials propeties is what should be the norm IMO, and if anything generalized dismissals of serious topics are off topic. Also the "squeaky wheel" IMO is the ADA which shouts the safety of amalgam to the media continously while refusing to be held accountable in court. Crohns can be considered off topic here, but what is not known about it, can outmatch what is not known about amalgams. No, I do not know much about amalgams or all that is behind that topic. But I can say. with certainty that I DO know more about crohns than the physicians and pharmaceutical companies . All that you attribute to amalgams, part of could certainly fall in the realm of crohns. Crohns is a disabler, killer, causing depression, fatigue and whatever else the body is capable of going awry. The only difference is, crohns cause is so hidden, so unbelievable that it has evaded detection through the ages. I only wish all that you say can be caused by amalagam, the remedy would be so simple. But crohns outweighs amalgam in that the harm is easily recognized, here and now and is increasing by the tremendous numbers in most nations. Children are recognized as having unusual problems, psychiatry has progressed or regressed to simply providing an RX for depressants rather than talk therapy. So what causes all this? STIMULANTS. Believe this or not, one person using a stimulant (i.e. Xanax, buspar, depakote, flexeril, marijuana, cocaine, st johns wort, kava kava, ALL ANTI-DEPRESSANTS) has the uncanny power to transmit harm to a second or third, etc. innocent person who may not be on any drugs, simply by a mind/body connection and stimulant. The two or more persons must have a mind connection, but the harm continues whether the two or more persons are in the same room or miles apart. Sometimes it takes two or three weeks until the mind connection becomes active. Those involved can be friends, relatives, not casual acquaintances. I say I know more than physicians about crohns because they do not recognize this. that the cause is not medical, but the treatment (which they concentrate in research) is necessary once it appears.. Manmade illness, weird, unscientific, but it defies all logical aspects we expect of a disease. It is not an organic illness. Anyone and anyoane does get it, due to the vast use of stimulants. I think of it as a sister in argument to amalgams and smoking, in that it is a second hand hazard. The effects of stimulants is getting to be known, but far too slow for the present. Pregnant women who have taken anti-depressants during pregnancy > For one thing warnings/advisors in many countries. You think it's wise > for a pregnant [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > accountable > in court. I thought I lost this post, but it is incomplete so will try to continue in a coherent manner as it is hard to follow up. Gail > Crohns can be considered off topic here, but what is not known about it, can > outmatch what is not known about amalgams. No, I do not know much about [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > The effects of stimulants is getting to be known, but far too slow for the > present. Pregnant women who have taken anti-depressants during pregnancy have had stillborn babies or babies with severe problems. Well, this is too large a problem to be solved here, and I can speak forever on the sorry condition of the world due to the ignorance of the effects of stimulants. It is far more a problem than the visible amalgams. The very mystery of it puts us all and loved ones in harms way. I will not say you are wrong, I do not know. I do not think I have been harmed by amalgams, but you or anyone not harmed by stimulants would probably say the same thing. And even those harmed by stimulants do not believe the cause as said by one layperson. But we can all agree there is a problem. If you care to, refer to a forum set up by eye physicians to answer questions about problems caused by crohns DoctorBrains.org I have a post there with the name of Kureforcrohns titled Crohns and Ulcerative Colitis It is listed under Comments and suggestions and if not readily apparent, use the User CP and Forum Jump, then User Control Psnel and then suggestions and comments. In the meantime, I am certain I have solved nothing for you and you have solved nothing for me. The messenger is sometimes an important factor in such issues. My zeal can turn me into a seemingly irrational kook. Regards anyway Gail To an extent, what can be said here as in amalgams, if you have undiagnosed ailments, look to crohns. (After ruling out legitimate ailments) > Sorry for the repetitious post. It just happened that way. But crohns outweighs amalgam > in that the harm is easily recognized, here and now and is increasing by the > tremendous numbers in most nations. The mechanisms by which amalgams can break down are understood scientifically, while your theories on chrons are speculative. I just find it interesting that you would minimize solid research and endorse wholeheartedly a speculative theory. > Children are recognized as having unusual problems, psychiatry has > progressed or regressed to simply providing an RX for depressants rather [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > power to transmit harm to a second or third, etc. innocent person who may > not be on any drugs, simply by a mind/body connection and stimulant. Hg can act as a stimulant or even a depressant on the nervous system believe it or not! Hg loves the nervous system and attaches itself to sulphur groups in the CNS. If your theory on stimulants were true, the damage done by fillings would be increased a billion fold as well! Can you imagine suing the ADA based on the fact that the toxic reactions of some people with amalgam was being transmitted to the entie population? That would truly be the mother of all lawsuits. Don't know if I understand you correctly. The harm transmitted by the stimulant and mind/body connection to another person is not determined by the stimulant takers condition. It usually attacks the digestive system OR if there is a weaker part or organ of the body, it will usually settle there for a while, and if that is resolved somewhat, move onto another weak part of the body. I meant to say an RX for anti-depressant (rather than depressant) is the usual mode of treatment from the Psychiatrist. Maybe I minimize solid research in some matters and endorse a speculative theory (as you call it) because I am the speculator, and know without doubt it is not speculative. See it constantly, and is the ONE thing I am certain of. Of course, if ever accepted, who could sue who, it would be a total mess, because anyone could be suspected, but not readily proven. It would upset the use of stimulants so greatly that even legitimate uses would have to be curbed. But for other practical uses, true tranquillizers could be substituted with no harm to anyone, as Valium or Ativan. I used to take a friend to the psychiatrist, and of course my theory was a constant subject I brought up. The doctor did not believe it could be so, but he did ask always about it. On the last visit, he said a young man came to him and asked why, everytime he thought of a certain friend, did he have pain. The doctor could not answer and I was not quick enough in thought. Once out of the office, realized that the answer would be, the boy's friend was on a stimulant. There was no next visit, the doctor died before that. In retrospect, he was a doctor we both liked, and time would have perhaps convinced him. I can cite many instances, but even what is logical in these explanations are still illogical to the mind that cannot comprehend it. We cannot transmit harm from fillings. The teeth, however can be affected adversely by crohns illness as any other part of the body can. Clear, of course not. It is simply too subtle and variable to be understood. It does not follow the path a scientist would walk, but the path he is researching for crohns and UC will lead nowhere Gail > But crohns outweighs amalgam > > in that the harm is easily recognized, here and now and is increasing by the [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > with amalgam was being transmitted to the entie population? That would > truly be the mother of all lawsuits. > Don't know if I understand you correctly. The harm transmitted by the > stimulant and mind/body connection to another person is not determined by > the stimulant takers condition. Well Hg can act as a stimulant. Come to think of it they did a show on identical twins once. The twins reported that sometimes they could sense trauma in the other twin when they were miles away in one or two cases. I'm not saying I believed it but that's what these twins had reported on this show. I also know that a few World Chess Champions had concerns about thier opponent transmitting thoughts or trying to hypnotize them during the match , which is why a few alwayss wore sunglasses. > It usually attacks the digestive system OR if there is a weaker part or > organ of the body, it will usually settle there for a while, and if that is > resolved somewhat, move onto another weak part of the body. Yup Hg goes through and attacks the digestive tract! In each and every case, there must be a stimulant involved to transmit harm. The twin would have to be on a stmulant to transmit harm to her sister no matter where each are located. And in chess, come to think of it, one could upset their opponent drastically by being on a stimulant. Never realized that. I once went to a doctor on anti-depressants. I went to chack a rapid heartbeat, and my heart start racing in the presence of the doctor. Never went back. Extremely nice doctor, who could not know what his anti-depressanats could do to some patients. Gail > > Don't know if I understand you correctly. The harm transmitted by the > > stimulant and mind/body connection to another person is not determined by [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Yup Hg goes through and attacks the digestive tract! ......... I also know that a few World Chess > Champions had concerns about thier opponent transmitting thoughts > or trying to hypnotize them during the match , which is why a few > alwayss wore sunglasses........ Polarized? Will they block 350 mV? carabelli > ......... I also know that a few World Chess > > Champions had concerns about thier opponent transmitting thoughts [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > carabelli I am thinking of Fischer in particular, wasn't he always was concerned that the Russians were trying to hypnotize him... and insisted on shutting off all cameras during the chess match. OCD probably. Cinton, You are bringing up some interesting things that could involve stimulants. Fischer could have sensed something untoward in his feelings and would have no way of knowing what that would be (stimulants) and thus centered on the obvious. Cameras, etc. I know this has no place here, but I think I am learning some things of importance and this IS all part of the world we live in. Gail > > ......... I also know that a few World Chess > > > Champions had concerns about thier opponent transmitting thoughts [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the Russians were trying to hypnotize him... and insisted on shutting > off all cameras during the chess match. OCD probably. > ......... I also know that a few World Chess > > Champions had concerns about thier opponent transmitting thoughts [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > This is a tactic someone might pick up. Using an anti-depressant in a chess match that might drastically alter the thinking of the opponent. Sunglasses in this case would be no barrier or block to the the stimulant. In further thought, this could be used in any competition involving the mind or even physical sports, the opponents could be affected. Always wondered when a young person died for no reason on the playing field, could someone have been thinking of him that was on a stimulant. Distance would be of no matter. What a complicated world we are subjec to. Gail > ......... I also know that a few World Chess > > Champions had concerns about thier opponent transmitting thoughts [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > carabelli Not just Fischer! http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/emf-war.html "How many of the EMR weapons possibilities have actually been developed and/or used? Those not privy to classified information have no way of knowing. There are plenty of rumors. Boris Spassky claimed he'd lost the world chess championship to Bobby Fischer because he was being bombarded with confusion rays. I recall hearing about one secret American experiment in which a sceintist was supposedly set up with invitations to three conferences to give the same presentation each time. The first one went fine, but at the last two he was irradiated with ELF waves, reportedly to induce Adey's calcium efflux, and he became confused and ineffective." Wow, Clinton I am learning things I never knew. The mind/body connection can only impart harm with the use of stimulants. And here are some of the best minds trying to figure out what causes the mind to fluctuate erratically. Not saying everything of the mind being affected is caused by stimulants, but the other methods (confusion rays, etc. are just as strange and may be a possibility, but I would doubt it) Gail > > ......... I also know that a few World Chess > > > Champions had concerns about thier opponent transmitting thoughts [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > with ELF waves, reportedly to induce Adey's calcium efflux, and he > became confused and ineffective." I think it's because Amalgmas is coming up. It's a bit like Chrimbo. > All these Amalgam and Flouride posts are starting to drive me crazy, if > you are not an expert in the field, please don't post anything, or keep [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Dr. Braces just courious, what do you Amalgam say about the other filling materials? the poision of Resin, the cancer causing effects of it, etc? Also just another note for the public, did you know that you have the largest potential for the higest amount of mercury released into the body is during when you have your amalgam filling drilled out and replaced by other types of fillings. (AKA don't replace them if nothing is wrong with them, you will get more Hg) Dr. Braces > I think it's because Amalgmas is coming up. It's a bit like Chrimbo. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> Dr. Braces > just courious, what do you Amalgam say about the other filling > materials? the poision of Resin, the cancer causing effects of it, etc? That's irrelevant. Other materials have to me evaluted separately, and they indeed may or may not pose hazards > Also just another note for the public, did you know that you have the > largest potential for the higest amount of mercury released into the > body is during when you have your amalgam filling drilled out and > replaced by other types of fillings. Nope the largest potential for Hg exposure is a corroding filling with the Hg methylated by gut and mouth bacteria. ( not surprisingly the NIDCR has not done any meaningful research on this). While it is true that drilling fillings out can release a lot of Hg your statement (done anyoumsly) is yet another shameless example of organized dentistries glib disinformation. In fact i've tried to get the dentists here for years to set an upper limit on Hg release in he US from an amalgam and they all refuse to. Are you any different? And by the way why not warn patients, especially women who are pregnant about the hazards of Hg vapor during drilling? But I'm sure you'll find a way to justify that , using some more ridiculous and unsubstanted scientifc statement that even the ADA won't take legal responsabilty for ( such as even when drilled and heated the Hg from the filling stays inert, which it obiviously doesn't). To clarify, I'm not in the quackery camp (the Amalgmas thing is a joke!) > just courious, what do you Amalgam say about the other filling > materials? the poision of Resin, the cancer causing effects of it, etc? [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >> > >> Dr. Braces Groovy for you. Your patients, however, should be informed and have a choice on the issue, just as you have chosen upon information. CB I wish there were an alternator site ...... Dr.Braces Wrote: > All these Amalgam and Flouride posts are starting to drive me crazy, if > you are not an expert in the field, please don't post anything, or [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Dr. Braces  SignatureJoel344 |
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