Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / January 2006
Sleep Bruxism - Evidence for CNS/ANS role
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Sue - 22 Dec 2005 22:02 GMT "This suggests that the central and/or autonomic nervous systems, rather than peripheral sensory factors, have a dominant role in SB genesis. "
-Sue
Topical review: sleep bruxism and the role of peripheral sensory influences.
Kato T, Thie NM, Huynh N, Miyawaki S, Lavigne GJ.
Faculty of Medicine and Dentistry, University of Montreal, Sleep and Biological Rhythm Research Center, Hospital du Sacre-Coeur of Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
Sleep bruxism (SB) is an unusual orofacial movement described as a parafunction in dentistry and as a parasomnia in sleep medicine. Since several peripheral influences could be involved in sleep-wake regulation and the genesis of rhythmic jaw movements, the authors have reviewed the relevant literature to facilitate understanding of mechanisms possibly involved in SB genesis. Various animal and human studies indicate that during either wakefulness or anesthesia, orofacial sensory inputs (e.g., from periodontium, mucosa, and muscle) could influence jaw muscle activity. However, the role of these sensory inputs in jaw motor activity during sleep is unclear. Interestingly, during sleep, the jaw is usually open due to motor suppression; tooth contact most likely occurs in association with sleep arousal. Recent physiologic evidence supports an association between sleep arousal and SB; a sequential change from autonomic (cardiac) and brain cortical activities precede SB-related jaw motor activity. This suggests that the central and/or autonomic nervous systems, rather than peripheral sensory factors, have a dominant role in SB genesis. However, some peripheral sensory factors may exert an influence on SB through their interaction with sleep-wake mechanisms. The intent of this review is to integrate various physiologic concepts in order to better understand the mechanisms underlying the genesis of SB.
Tim Dixon - 22 Dec 2005 22:06 GMT "Sue" <chrlie699@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1135288975.821581.5q9720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
so what does this have to do with anything? another unproven theory.
Tim Dixon - 22 Dec 2005 22:08 GMT "Sue" <chrlie699@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1135288975.8215k81.59720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
attention Sue: Bruxism is nothing new and probably everybody with muscles does it, it's frequency, duration and intensity that counts.
Tim Dixon - 22 Dec 2005 22:11 GMT "Sue" <chrlie699@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1135288w975.821581.59720@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
CLS
The Webby - 22 Dec 2005 22:12 GMT And so what are *you* going to do with this information?
> "This suggests that the central and/or autonomic nervous systems, > rather than peripheral sensory factors, have a dominant role in SB [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > integrate various physiologic concepts in order to better understand > the mechanisms underlying the genesis of SB. Tim Dixon - 22 Dec 2005 22:14 GMT She is hoping someone here will agree with the author so she can go elsewhere and say 'the dentists over in SMD think this is evidence' or some other wording, which ever.. its all just a bunch of CLS we are witnessing.
> And so what are *you* going to do with this information? > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >> integrate various physiologic concepts in order to better understand >> the mechanisms underlying the genesis of SB. Tim Dixon - 22 Dec 2005 22:32 GMT I just noticed Sue has posted this same article at that other place she hangs out. I hope no one will respond to her because your comments, or some paraphrase of your comments, or the standard "the dentists at SMD agree" statement will be posted over there.
I wouldn't touch this ladies stuff with a ten foot bur.
JanD - 23 Dec 2005 01:21 GMT > I just noticed Sue has posted this same article at that other place she > hangs out. I hope no one will respond to her because your comments, or > some paraphrase of your comments, or the standard "the dentists at SMD > agree" statement will be posted over there. > > I wouldn't touch this ladies stuff with a ten foot bur. But you are most eager to follow her around.
This is called cyberstalking, Timmy.
Tim Dixon - 23 Dec 2005 01:23 GMT "JanD" <JanD@insightbb.com> wrote in message news:QiIqf.426785$0284.307416@attbi_s22...
ignore the old hag chester
http://www.scimeddentistry.com/jd/zapper.html
Amatus Cremona - 23 Dec 2005 14:26 GMT Kill-Filed a long time ago.
 Signature /
Amatus
/
> > I just noticed Sue has posted this same article at that other place she [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I wouldn't touch this ladies stuff with a ten foot bur. pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com - 23 Dec 2005 21:40 GMT Sue, do you know where to find the entire text of this article? I'd be interested in reading it, not just the summary you posted.
Tim Dixon - 23 Dec 2005 21:40 GMT <pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:11353741007.240413.36710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
cut-- hey your soap is coming on
JanD - 23 Dec 2005 22:23 GMT > <pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:11353741007.240413.36710@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > > cut-- hey your soap is coming on HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TIM, YOU DO NOT CONTROL THIS NEWSGROUPS!
Restored:
Sue, do you know where to find the entire text of this article? I'd be interested in reading it, not just the summary you posted.
Tim Dixon - 23 Dec 2005 22:24 GMT "JanD" <JanD@insightbb.com> wrote in message news:GN_qf.671271$xqm3.69588@attbi_s21...
ignore the old hag chester, for a good laugh go to: http://www.scimeddentistry.com/jd/zapper.html recognize anyone?
Sue - 23 Dec 2005 21:46 GMT pellmellwillyni...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Sue, do you know where to find the entire text of this article? I'd be > interested in reading it, not just the summary you posted. The abstract was on Pubmed. I could not get the full article as we do not subscribe to the journal. I will look it up for you when I am at work later today.
May I ask you.... are you a dentist, researcher, other?
Thank you, Sue
Tim Dixon - 23 Dec 2005 21:51 GMT "Sue" <chrlie699@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1135374419.4032289.232420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> pellmellwillyni...@hotmail.com wrote: Oh this is a riot...
pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com - 25 Dec 2005 07:47 GMT > pellmellwillyni...@hotmail.com wrote: > > Sue, do you know where to find the entire text of this article? I'd be [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thank you, > Sue Great, thanks!
I'm just a patient. And right now my computer is leaking memory (whatever that really means), so I'm not permitting cookies that don't expire at the end of my online session. That makes lots of those membership sites unavailable to me. It will be very helpful if you can snag the full article.
Amatus Cremona - 23 Dec 2005 22:00 GMT She would rather just paraphrase parts of it
Amatus Cremona ..
> Sue, do you know where to find the entire text of this article? I'd be > interested in reading it, not just the summary you posted. letsconnect - 25 Dec 2005 14:03 GMT Access to full text articles is about $20+ a pop, unless you have access through a university (as a registered student) or a subscription through your place of work. In any event, it's illegal to redistribute the full text versions, as the copyright usually belongs to the respective journals.
> She would rather just paraphrase parts of it > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sue, do you know where to find the entire text of this article? I'd be > > interested in reading it, not just the summary you posted. pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com - 25 Dec 2005 20:59 GMT "Access to full text articles is about $20+ a pop, unless you have access through a university (as a registered student) or a subscription
through your place of work. In any event, it's illegal to redistribute the full text versions, as the copyright usually belongs to the respective journals."
* * * * *
Hm. I hadn't thought about the copyright issue. You're right about that. Maybe my local library will have access (it has access to an enormous and amazing number of things, including a monograph I borrowed recently that only three American universities even owned). If Sue gives me full bibliographical info, I could at least ask locally.
Thanks for your warning.
Tim Dixon - 26 Dec 2005 00:31 GMT > "Access to full text articles is about $20+ a pop, unless you have > access through a university (as a registered student) or a subscription [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thanks for your warning. Why not just go see another NTI dentist instead of trying to hope you will find some answer in a medline article. Listen, you're not going to find it.
I hate to say it, but not all NTI providers are equally qualified, and in fact, many need a lot more exposure to the basic principals of fabrication and delivery than they have had. I am not suggesting your NTI provider isn't qualified, but if your not getting relief then its very likely that the design needs to be modified. You should not be able to clench with enough force at night with a properly fabricated NTI in place to cause ongoing symptoms. Yes some people continue to have problems, that is why it is important to get the thing looked at the minute you began experiencing pain or discomfort.
Go to www.heacacheprevention.com and punch in your zip code and see if there is someone else nearby listed and give them a call. That article she is referencing will do NOTHING to remedy your situation.
pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com - 26 Dec 2005 06:16 GMT Tim, you are so right about not all NTI providers' being equally qualified! If you search this newsgroup long enough, you might find my post asking for references for NTI fabricators. I got my current NTI from a provider listed on Jim's site. Although he was enthusiastic about the device, he did some odd things during initial fabrication. His partner is the one who really messed the device up, having me bite into the bottom of it while it was still soft and I was anesthetized from a filling and couldn't tell the thing was still soft. When I put it on, I realized it had teeth marks in it, so I filed the thing flat myself. After this experience, I am hesitant about paying another NTI provider without a solid reference, which neither Dr. Steve could give me.
OTOH, I also had problems with the NTI that Dr. Boyd fabricated for me, and I'd think his NTIs would be the best around.
As to whether the article contains information I would find useful, why don't you leave that judgment up to me? It is not you but I who lives with my choices.
Tim Dixon - 26 Dec 2005 13:19 GMT > Tim, you are so right about not all NTI providers' being equally > qualified! If you search this newsgroup long enough, you might find my [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > don't you leave that judgment up to me? It is not you but I who lives > with my choices. If Dr. Boyd personally made you an NTI I can guarantee he will fix it for if its not working for you. Did you contact him and tell him of your troubles? Did you have any follow-up visits? Or did you in any way attempt to modify the device yourself? Dr. Boyd see's patients every thursday in his office in Solana Beach, I would call carol and make an appointment immediately.
pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com - 26 Dec 2005 17:33 GMT He made the NTI for me when he lived in Michigan. I had problems immediately, which he tried to solve by grinding more of my already ground lower teeth. (I later saw an intraoral camera image of the exposed dentin.)
After a week of wearing the device at night, I hadn't slept a wink. Regular sleep being specifically addressed in his NTI instructions, I wanted to wear the daytime device at night until I could drive back to get the night device adjusted. I wasn't going to be able to return for some months, though. Instead of letting me keep the device until I could return, he asked me to send it back and he returned my uncashed check. True to his word on that money back guarantee.
A few months later, I found a local dentist who made my current device and altered it (not my teeth) so it didn't hurt the lower teeth. I never modified Jim's NTI, just the one badly "fixed" by the partner of the local dentist who made the current device.
Solana Beach is probably thousands of miles from me.
The Webby - 26 Dec 2005 17:40 GMT > He made the NTI for me when he lived in Michigan. I had problems > immediately, which he tried to solve by grinding more of my already [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Solana Beach is probably thousands of miles from me. Are you on a first-name basis with Dr. Boyd?
Webby
pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com - 27 Dec 2005 01:30 GMT Since he introduces himself as Jim, I suppose I am, as are the others who have been to his office. What's your interest in what I call him?
The Webby - 27 Dec 2005 06:08 GMT > Since he introduces himself as Jim, I suppose I am, as are the others > who have been to his office. What's your interest in what I call him? Oh.. no particular interest.
Tim Dixon - 26 Dec 2005 17:51 GMT > Solana Beach is probably thousands of miles from me. Yes it likely is. Well as I suggested, there is that database of dentists you could use if you really wanted to.
pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com - 27 Dec 2005 01:31 GMT And as I said, I've used it. I'm not sure how to do any better than I already have.
The Webby - 27 Dec 2005 06:09 GMT > And as I said, I've used it. I'm not sure how to do any better than I > already have. You do realize that no one can see what you're responding to don't you?
pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com - 27 Dec 2005 17:27 GMT > > And as I said, I've used it. I'm not sure how to do any better than I > > already have. > > You do realize that no one can see what you're responding to don't you? Not really. I'm reading and posting from Google, which inserts a link (or sometimes a quote) of what I'm responding to and also provides a "tree" to show who's responding to what. Since (if I can find what I'm looking to read), I see a perfectly clear connection to the post(s) being referenced, it's hard for me to imagine fully what people getting emails or other newsgroup formats are seeing or not seeing. In addition, this new Beta format of Google Groups sometimes doesn't preprint the post to which I'm responding. I haven't yet figured out a less than clumsy way to quote it myself, since that caret system that we're all used to by now is missing.
If you've figured out how to get carets regularly on the new Google system, I'd sure like to know how it's done!
letsconnect - 28 Dec 2005 01:26 GMT > Not really. I'm reading and posting from Google, which inserts a link > (or sometimes a quote) of what I'm responding to and also provides a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > If you've figured out how to get carets regularly on the new Google > system, I'd sure like to know how it's done! Click on "show options" beside the post/name of the person/post you'd like to respond to, and then choose "Reply" (rather than "Reply" at the bottom of that post). That way, you'll get the quote automatically. It's all a bit counterintuitive - the "Reply" button at the bottom of posts is too tempting :-)...
pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com - 28 Dec 2005 04:44 GMT > > Not really. I'm reading and posting from Google, which inserts a link > > (or sometimes a quote) of what I'm responding to and also provides a [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > It's all a bit counterintuitive - the "Reply" button at the bottom of > posts is too tempting :-)... Wellllll.... Lookee that! Now, can I remember to do that each time I reply? You're right that the Reply button at the bottom of the post is tempting.
Thanks for the tip!
letsconnect - 26 Dec 2005 03:06 GMT The reference is J Orofac Pain. 2003 Summer;17(3):187 Topical review: sleep bruxism and the role of peripheral sensory influences. Kato T, Thie NM, Huynh N, Miyawaki S, Lavigne GJ.
But usually those are not available through libraries other than university libraries.
As Tim said, if it's a personal interest rather than a research interest, the best thing would be to hook up with a dentist in your area who's into that sort of thing.
> "Access to full text articles is about $20+ a pop, unless you have > access through a university (as a registered student) or a subscription [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Thanks for your warning. letsconnect - 26 Dec 2005 03:27 GMT > The reference is J Orofac Pain. 2003 Summer;17(3):187 Topical review: > sleep bruxism and the role of peripheral sensory influences. Kato T, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > interest, the best thing would be to hook up with a dentist in your > area who's into that sort of thing. Umm, judging from your previous posts (that's to pellmell - I don't read everything on this newsgroup for obvious reasons), you've already done that. Although of course some dentists will be more experienced with the NTI-TSS than others. Might be interesting to see what this Italian dentist does differently - certainly, that's what I'd like to find out if I was in your position. Maybe it was elaborated upon somewhere along the line, but most of the interesting stuff is buried amongst flame wars.
> > "Access to full text articles is about $20+ a pop, unless you have > > access through a university (as a registered student) or a subscription [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > > > Thanks for your warning. Tim Dixon - 26 Dec 2005 13:22 GMT >> The reference is J Orofac Pain. 2003 Summer;17(3):187 Topical review: >> sleep bruxism and the role of peripheral sensory influences. Kato T, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > somewhere along the line, but most of the interesting stuff is buried > amongst flame wars. There is no one in the USA currently fabricating the A.G.E.LK and so you would have to travel to either bologna or trieste to see Dr. Stradaioli. http://www.studio-luksich.it/studio.htm
pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com - 26 Dec 2005 17:44 GMT "most of the interesting stuff is buried amongst flame wars. "
Yeah, and with the current configuration of Google Groups, I'm having a tough time finding the comments to which I wanted to read responses. Hope they change the Beta version back to some of the more readable aspects of the previous version. Otherwise, I'm seeing the future: This bout of SMD reading isn't going to last long.
Tim Dixon - 26 Dec 2005 17:49 GMT > "most of the interesting stuff is buried amongst flame wars. " > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > aspects of the previous version. Otherwise, I'm seeing the future: This > bout of SMD reading isn't going to last long. Why rely on goodle or yahoo, doesn't your ISP provide usenet feeds? Just get a news reader and be done with them.
pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com - 26 Dec 2005 18:40 GMT Does Yahoo offer Usenet access? Maybe I'll check that out.
My ISP does provide feeds, but I don't like having that stuff in my computer. I don't seem to be able to get rid of old posts in Outlook Express, and with my Mac "leaking" memory, I'd just as soon not have the memory taken up with material much of which I'll never read. I'd just as soon use the memory on someone else's computer.
Pros and cons to everything in life.
Stovepipe - 28 Dec 2005 06:28 GMT > and with my Mac "leaking" memory, I'd just as soon not have > the memory taken up with material much of which I'll never read. I'd > just as soon use the memory on someone else's computer. With all due respect: this is one of the most rediculous things I've heard yet in this (almost finished) year.
Get yourself a free copy of MacSOUP or some other Mac newsreader, set it to purge articles older than 7 days and physically save the ones you've read and want to keep. You need so little memory (Saved as SimpleText files), it is totally illogical to rely on google groups for your UseNet stuff.
If you want it on the Windoze box, pick up Forte Free Agent.
If you do not get a newsreader, you will NOT be able to pick up threads as they develop. And you _will_ be wasting memory, (as google loads them as html files) if you want to save them.
UseNet = NNTP/UUCP (compact, efficient) Web/Google = HTTP (clumsy, big and smelly)
Re: OutLook Espress: you _can_ use it, but it is clumsy. To delete articles, go over to Deleted Items, Select one and then Select All, and hit Delete or Purge. Alternately, Select One/Select All, and physically drag them to the trash. In O/E, they will still hang around untill you Delete or Trash them with emptying the Trash as the last step.
As usual: JMO, JME, YMMV, DONTTRYTHISATHOME, GOEATMICE, etc......
SP
 Signature Take out the TRAASH to reply
Amatus Cremona - 28 Dec 2005 12:29 GMT Harder to pull a DNS number off of Google, right PM ? Plus, (for some people) you can only have so many computers lined up in your basement.
 Signature /
Amatus
/
> >> and with my Mac "leaking" memory, I'd just as soon not have [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > SP Stovepipe - 28 Dec 2005 15:36 GMT > Harder to pull a DNS number off of Google, right PM ? Plus, (for some > people) you can only have so many computers lined up in your basement. When we get back (around 3Jan2006), you'll have to educate me: DNS? PM? Is this JME again in another masked crusader?
Meanwhile, Happy New Year to all the SMD. See youse all in a few days. If we go into Rimouski, I'll try to Google Groups the SMD at their Internet Café
Cheers, gang! :-) SP
 Signature Take out the TRAASH to reply
pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com - 28 Dec 2005 16:10 GMT > > and with my Mac "leaking" memory, I'd just as soon not have > > the memory taken up with material much of which I'll never read. I'd [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > -- > Take out the TRAASH to reply Great info. Thanks! I'll try it once I have a computer that doesn't leak memory.
If you haven't had that happen to you -- e.g. having as few as one window open and getting a "No more memory" message, knowing you may lose access to all your data if you don't shut down immediately -- you do not know whereof you speak. Until I have a secure system, I will not be adding any more programs or saving anything unnecessary on the computer. (Usenet posts are unnecessary.)
Sue - 29 Dec 2005 18:22 GMT > > > and with my Mac "leaking" memory, I'd just as soon not have > > > the memory taken up with material much of which I'll never read. I'd [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > be adding any more programs or saving anything unnecessary on the > computer. (Usenet posts are unnecessary.) More stuff.
TMJ imbalance and autonomic disturbances (good reading, IMO):
http://www.virginiasmiles.com/html/dentalnews/37craniosacral_2.html
Excerpt:
"Located slightly anterior to the temporomandibular joint is an autonomic nerve plexus call(ed) the Reticular Activating System. Imbalance of the temporomandibular joint can produce a constant hyperstimulation of this autonomic system, resulting in the patient experiencing a pervasive sense of "fight or flight." It is like leaning on a fire alarm 24 hour a day. This can affect not only the patient's emotions, but their endocrine and other physiological systems as well. If the patient clenches their jaw and / or grinds their teeth during sleep, they may wake up more fatigued than they had been when they went to bed due to the constant firing of the sympathetic nerve fibers."
;-)
-Sue
Tim Dixon - 29 Dec 2005 18:25 GMT >> > > and with my Mac "leaking" memory, I'd just as soon not have >> > > the memory taken up with material much of which I'll never read. I'd [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > -Sue You think thats good reading, well you just keep on reading that garbage then..
Sue - 29 Dec 2005 19:08 GMT > >> > > and with my Mac "leaking" memory, I'd just as soon not have > >> > > the memory taken up with material much of which I'll never read. I'd [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > You think thats good reading, well you just keep on reading that garbage > then.. Will do. I enjoy reading everything from "traditional" Western medicine to alternative, holistic, and Eastern medicine. That one was a quick read that I thought was interesting. It would be great if craniosacral therapy could relieve the pain associated with TMJ imbalance. It certainly is non-invasive and sounds great if it helps!
It was also posted on a dental website, so at least one dentist is giving craniosacral therapy some thought.
Here is a good review that describes reflex control of mastication (at least quite extensively as to what was known at the time of print).
This is a bit longer read.
-Sue
link:
http://crobm.iadrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/13/1/85#DELLOW-AND-LUND-1971
Titles: 13(1):85-104 (2002) Crit Rev Oral Biol Med © 2002 International and American Associations for Dental Research REFLEX CONTROL OF HUMAN JAW MUSCLES Kemal S. Türker
Tim Dixon - 29 Dec 2005 19:22 GMT Tim Dixon wrote:
> > pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com wrote: > >> Stovepipe wrote: [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > You think thats good reading, well you just keep on reading that garbage > then..
>It was also posted on a dental website, so at least one dentist is >giving craniosacral therapy some thought. So what, lost of dentists are doing all kinds of things that are worthless.
>Here is a good review that describes reflex control of mastication (at >least quite extensively as to what was known at the time of print).
>This is a bit longer read. I'm not interested in reading any of that. Maybe someone else is around here, but i highly doubt it.
Sue TMJ is not a dignosis of anything. How many times do you need to be told that?
Sue - 29 Dec 2005 21:48 GMT > Tim Dixon wrote: > > > pellmellwillynilly@hotmail.com wrote: [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > Sue TMJ is not a dignosis of anything. How many times do you need to be > told that? "Sue TMJ is not a dignosis of anything. How many times do you need to be told that? "
Reply: BTW, I noted "TMJ imbalance" in my post, not simply "TMJ."
Tim, Thanks for your input.
TMJ refers to the temporomandibular joint. In normal anatomy there are 2 of them.
As I understand it, when there is pain associated with one or both of these joints or the surrounding anatomy necessary to effect normal jaw function (like chewing, speaking, yawning, etc.), this indicates a problem that may (or may not) be diagnosed as a TMJ disorder or TM Disorder (TMD).
I have heard many terms tossed around loosely when describing pain associated with the TMJ and/or surrounding anatomy like:
TMJ syndrome, TM disorder, TMJ disorder, TMJ pain, TM pain, TM problems, TMJ imbalance ... to name a few
"TMJ syndrome" may be more appropriate when speaking about these in a collective sense.
Tim, It is my understanding that a professional (MD or dentist) can often make a diagnosis that identifies the source of pain, and whether the problem may be labeled as a "TMD" and/or "TMJ disorder."
Is this wrong? This is what I gather anyway, from information shown on the ADA website (see below):
(Overview) (From ADA website)
More than fifteen percent of American adults suffer from chronic facial pain. Some common symptoms include pain in or around the ear, tenderness of the jaw, clicking or popping noises when opening the mouth, or even headaches and neck aches.
Two joints and several jaw muscles make it possible to open and close the mouth. They work together when you chew, speak, and swallow. These structures include muscles and ligaments, as well as the jaw bone, the mandible (lower jaw) with two joints, the TMJ's.
The TM joint is one of the most complex joints in the body. Located on each side of the head, these joints work together and can make many different movements, including a combination of rotating and translocational (gliding) action, used when chewing and speaking.
Several muscles help open and close the mouth. They control the lower jaw (mandible) as it moves forward, backward, and side-to-side. Both TM joints are involved in these movements. Each TM joint has a disc between the ball and socket (see diagram). The disc cushions the load while enabling the jaw to open widely and perform rotating and translocational movements. Any problem that prevents this complex system of muscles, ligaments, discs and bones from working together properly may result in a painful TMJ disorder.
Diagnosis & Treatment A dentist can help identify the source of the pain with a thorough exam and appropriate x-rays. Often, it's a sinus, toothache or an early stage of periodontal disease. But for some pain, the cause is not so easily diagnosed. The pain could be related to the facial muscles, the jaw or temporomandibular joint, located in the front of the ear. Treatments for this pain may include stress reducing exercises, muscle relaxants, or wearing a mouth protector to prevent teeth grinding. They've been successful for many and your dentist can recommend which is best for you.
Several conditions may be related to TMD, but they can be quite varied, and they are often difficult to pinpoint. TM disorders can result when the jaw muscles or jaw joints are affected.
The joint, ligaments, and muscles used for chewing and grinding food may all be involved. In some cases, it is not possible to clearly determine the causes. In some complex cases, where more than one doctor is involved, it may be difficult to get a consensus on treatment.
Some TM problems result from arthritis, dislocation, and injury. All of these conditions can cause pain and dysfunction. Muscles that move the joints are also subject to injury and disease. Injuries to the jaw, head or neck, and diseases such as arthritis, might result in some TM problems. Other factors that relate to the way the teeth fit together-the bite-may cause some types of TMD. Stress is thought to be a factor. TMD affects women of childbearing age more than men, or older men and women.
There are several ways the TMJ disorders may be treated. Your dentist will recommend what type of treatment is needed for your particular problem or recommend that you be referred to a specialist. Treatment may involve a series of steps. The step-by-step plan is in your best interest because only minor, relatively non-invasive treatment may be needed.
Diagnosis is an important step before treatment. Part of your clinical examination includes checking the joints and muscles for tenderness, clicking, popping or difficulty moving. Your complete medical history may be reviewed, so it is important to keep your dental office record up-to-date. Your dentist may take x-rays and may make a "cast" of your teeth to see how your bite fits together. Your dentist may also request specialized x-rays for the TM joints. Depending on your case, the dentist may refer you to a physician or another dentist.
Tim Dixon - 29 Dec 2005 22:22 GMT Nonsense from the ADA does not interest me in the least.
The Webby - 30 Dec 2005 04:53 GMT [cut]
> Sue TMJ is not a dignosis of anything. How many times do you need to be > told that? Sue is on some kind of a campaign.
JanD - 30 Dec 2005 18:59 GMT > [cut] >> >> Sue TMJ is not a dignosis of anything. How many times do you need to be >> told that? > > Sue is on some kind of a campaign. Oh <GASP>
Are you and brother afraid she is cutting in on your stock of trade?
The Webby - 30 Dec 2005 19:14 GMT > > [cut] > >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Are you and brother afraid she is cutting in on your stock of trade? Thanks for pointing out how our copycat is at work. Kind of a stupid comment you made, don't you think? (Please do not answer the question.)
http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/stock.html
JanD - 30 Dec 2005 21:50 GMT You have some nerve speaking of a campaign.
Get over your UNREAL hatred.
>> > [cut] >> >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/stock.html The Webby - 30 Dec 2005 22:12 GMT > You have some nerve speaking of a campaign. > > Get over your UNREAL hatred. [cut] One day I hope to discover your real-life identity. You are some piece of work, whoever you are.
Whamatus_B - 31 Dec 2005 19:29 GMT >[cut] >> >> Sue TMJ is not a dignosis of anything. How many times do you need to be >> told that? > >Sue is on some kind of a campaign. I like that "dignosis" thingy.
Not sure why they are diggin up noses.
Lookin' fer buggers ?
-- Whamatus Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dartos - 29 Dec 2005 22:12 GMT It would be great if
> craniosacral therapy could relieve the pain associated with TMJ > imbalance. It certainly is non-invasive and sounds great if it helps!
> -Sue Mighty big IF.
On one hand there is a non-invasive treatment that works about 80% of the time (I think it's probably higher *if* the patient really works through any initial adjustments and wears the NTI).
On the other there is a non-invasive treatment that *might* help.
Youse takes yore pick,
Dartos
Sue - 29 Dec 2005 22:56 GMT > It would be great if > > craniosacral therapy could relieve the pain associated with TMJ [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Dartos Dartos, If the NTI works for your patients, that is great! But what about those that do not respond?
What about trying conjunctive therapy? For example, some people may not respond well to either therapy when administered alone, but they may have a good response when these are administered in conjunction with one another.
Just an idea,
Sue
Tim Dixon - 29 Dec 2005 22:58 GMT >> It would be great if >> > craniosacral therapy could relieve the pain associated with TMJ [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Just an idea, Its called refer out.
Sue - 29 Dec 2005 23:43 GMT > >> It would be great if > >> > craniosacral therapy could relieve the pain associated with TMJ [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Its called refer out. Actually most of the dentists that I know in real life (several of my college friends) do not want to have anything to do with treating this "syndrome." Most say it is tricky business. I have never asked them if they know about the NTI though.
-Sue PS I was not asking them because I was seeking treatment.. I was just asking out of interest. It is a chronic condition that can be very debilitating.
The Webby - 30 Dec 2005 02:20 GMT [cut]
> Actually most of the dentists that I know in real life (several of my > college friends) do not want to have anything to do with treating this [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > asking out of interest. It is a chronic condition that can be very > debilitating. Of course they want nothing to do with this "syndrome". There *is no such syndrome* for them to be involved in treating.
Webby
Dartos - 30 Dec 2005 14:33 GMT > Actually most of the dentists that I know in real life (several of my > college friends) do not want to have anything to do with treating this > "syndrome." Most say it is tricky business. I have never asked them > if they know about the NTI though. Then it is very likely that they have not ever used an NTI. It changes the nature of jaw problems to the complexity of shooting fish in a barrel (for *most* cases).
> -Sue > PS I was not asking them because I was seeking treatment.. I was just > asking out of interest. It is a chronic condition that can be very > debilitating. Depends on the case and what treatment is offered and accepted.
Dartos
Whamatus_B - 31 Dec 2005 19:13 GMT "Sue" <chrlie699@yahoo.com> kinda wrote
>> Just a bad idea,
>Its called refer out. Thought it was 'reefer', as in madness.
Could be wrong, or mebbe stoned. Doesn't matter.
-- Whamatus Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dartos - 29 Dec 2005 23:46 GMT Number 1, I'm not out trying to save every person in the world with TMJ pain, headaches, etc. I'm trying to help my patients.
Number 2, I'm not a very good snake oil salesman and I can't spend 20 hours a week counseling these folks on their mental state.
Number 3, *Most* of the patients who claim the NTI isn't working aren't really trying to wear it. If they aren't going to be cooperative to the simplest treatment offered, how am I going to get them to buy into anything else?
Dartos
> Dartos, > If the NTI works for your patients, that is great! But what about [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Sue Sue - 30 Dec 2005 00:19 GMT > Number 1, I'm not out trying to save every person in the world with > TMJ pain, headaches, etc. I'm trying to help my patients. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > > > Sue Dartos,
I am so sorry. I work in research where we process many ideas (MOST are not ready for direct application). I get way too caught up in theoretical discussion.
I was thinking that patients in real pain (enough to seek treatment) would be compliant to treatments offerred and receptive to other suggestions if their compliance was not working. Apparently many are not compliant and many are not that receptive either. I have no idea what it is like to be in the doctor's shoes.
Also I was not thinking about the implications of suggesting "conjunctive treatments" that have likely not been clinically validated either... this may pose a risk for you.
You know what works best with your patients.
Sincerely,
-Sue
JanD - 30 Dec 2005 00:24 GMT > Number 1, I'm not out trying to save every person in the world with > TMJ pain, headaches, etc. I'm trying to help my patients. Some people reading this newagroups might be helped.
> Number 2, I'm not a very good snake oil salesman and I can't spend > 20 hours a week counseling these folks on their mental state. Nobody is talking about snake oil. Why are you? People reading this newsgroups may be interested. There are other people besides your patients.
> Number 3, *Most* of the patients who claim the NTI isn't working > aren't really trying to wear it. If they aren't going to be cooperative > to the simplest treatment offered, how am I going to get them to buy > into anything else? > > Dartos No one is asking you to try and get them to buy anything else. Suggests were politely made. Why can't you just respond in kind?
>> Dartos, >> If the NTI works for your patients, that is great! But what about [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> >> Sue Sue - 30 Dec 2005 00:56 GMT > > Number 1, I'm not out trying to save every person in the world with > > TMJ pain, headaches, etc. I'm trying to help my patients. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >> > >> Sue Jan,
Thanks, but it is ok. I can understand Dartos' frustration. It is really easy for others (like myself) to sit around and talk about hypothetical treatments, as though it is not really a big deal.
This is a big deal. It is a big deal to the patient and a big deal to the provider. It is a challenge that I cannot understand. Simply talking about something and actually being the one that is daily responsible for these decisions, and/or being the patient that lives this daily does not compare... not even close.
I forget this often and I can be very offensive without realizing it.
I disagree on one little point that Dartos made however... I do not think that suggesting craniosacral therapy, relaxation methods at bedtime equate to counseling a patient on his/her mental status. But that is just my opinion about that sort of stuff. I would not be offended in the least by such suggestions (as a patient). I would not assume the doctor was trying to evaluate my mental status, but that is just me.
Dartos knows his patients and has an understanding how they might react to such suggestions.
It may be best to drop this discussion, as it is only theoretical anyway. -Sue
letsconnect - 30 Dec 2005 01:10 GMT > I disagree on one little point that Dartos made however... I do not > think that suggesting craniosacral therapy, relaxation methods at [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > assume the doctor was trying to evaluate my mental status, but that is > just me. I don't think any patient would feel offended if a dentist made the suggestion that a relaxation tape before bedtime may help reduce nighttime grinding or clenching (which is the original point I was trying to make, rather than advocating a "cure for TMJ disorders" or anything of that order). Though not knowing the demographics, I may well be wrong, and people in certain geographical areas may well be offended by such a suggestion. I wouldn't have thought so in this day and age, but one never knows.
Sue - 30 Dec 2005 01:37 GMT > > I disagree on one little point that Dartos made however... I do not > > think that suggesting craniosacral therapy, relaxation methods at [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > offended by such a suggestion. I wouldn't have thought so in this day > and age, but one never knows. Amber and Jan,
I am not sure, but maybe this is more of a female thing. Not to generalize too much... but women seem to be continually marketed relaxation methods (yoga, meditation, spa massage, chammomile teas, etc. etc. ad nauseum)
It is in our faces all the time so we may not flinch if a dentist suggested something like that... it is almost like concerted relaxation must be scheduled into every woman's routine in order to maintain health (as per the constant media barrage, anyway)
Just a thought.
OOps... time to RUSH to my yoga class! BYE!
(just kidding)
Sue PS I actually think that fitting in relaxation is good for ANYONE (TMDer or not), but not everyone is offerred that luxury, to the same degree
Whamatus_B - 31 Dec 2005 19:24 GMT >I am not sure, but maybe this is more of a female thing. Not to >generalize too much... but women seem to be continually marketed >relaxation methods (yoga, meditation, spa massage, chammomile teas, >etc. etc. ad nauseum) When all they need is a good manly f*kin' right ?
-- Whamatus Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dartos - 30 Dec 2005 14:45 GMT Hey, I never said one cross word. I was not offended by your reply. If I am angry with you, I'll let you know.
Most patients who come into the office and say they have "TMJ" have been 'doctored' by several dentists and physicians already. Everyone has told them that their problem is mysterious and difficult to treat. They have had CT scans, MRI's, multiple medications, many have seen/are seeing a chiropractor, etc.
In walks a small town dentist who says they can feel a lot better by just wearing an inexpensive piece of plastic when they sleep, and sirens go off in their heads and they don't even want to find out if it works.
That goes double for migraine patients!
There are even some patients who use their malady as a crutch through life and don't want it to really go away.
There is the frustration.
Dartos
> Thanks, but it is ok. I can understand Dartos' frustration. It is > really easy for others (like myself) to sit around and talk about [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > -Sue Sue - 30 Dec 2005 17:00 GMT > Hey, I never said one cross word. I was not offended by your > reply. If I am angry with you, I'll let you know. [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > > > -Sue Dartos,
I misinterpeted. Thanks for explaining. You also helped me to better understand Webby's post.
More later, -Sue
Sue - 30 Dec 2005 17:01 GMT > Hey, I never said one cross word. I was not offended by your > reply. If I am angry with you, I'll let you know. [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > > > -Sue Dartos,
Is the NTI expensive? Do some balk at the price? Or is it mainly a compliance issue?
Do you really believe that some want to remain sick?
I don't get it.
I was making some basic assumptions about patients. I assumed that most patients seeking diagnosis and treatment for a problem have a genuine desire to help themselves and to achieve wellness.
I was joking when I wrote TM-unhausen ... but maybe for some of these pts, this is a factitious illness.
Sue
The Webby - 30 Dec 2005 17:06 GMT > > Hey, I never said one cross word. I was not offended by your > > reply. If I am angry with you, I'll let you know. [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > Sue Maybe Sue needs to define/explain exactly what "TM-unhausen" is supposed to mean to the readers in smd.
Webby
Amatus Cremona - 30 Dec 2005 18:08 GMT > Maybe Sue needs to define/explain exactly what "TM-unhausen" is supposed > to mean to the readers in smd. More likely, she just needs to GO AWAY.
 Signature /
Amatus
/
> >> > Hey, I never said one cross word. I was not offended by your [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > > Webby The Webby - 30 Dec 2005 18:20 GMT > > Maybe Sue needs to define/explain exactly what "TM-unhausen" is supposed > > to mean to the readers in smd. > > More likely, she just needs to GO AWAY. I was more of a rhetorical question and I can't help but agree with the sentiment of Amatus.
Webby
> / > > [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > > > > Webby The Webby - 30 Dec 2005 18:27 GMT In article <tmjiatroepidemic-7EE48B.10201730122005@news-lb-02.socal.rr.com>,
> > > Maybe Sue needs to define/explain exactly what "TM-unhausen" is supposed > > > to mean to the readers in smd. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Webby [cut]
There is more than one "Sue" too. If you read carefully, you can easily see when the shifts change hands.
Webby
JanD - 30 Dec 2005 19:06 GMT Oh, I am sooooo surprised! Suckup Suckupsuckuosuckuosuckupsuckup
>> > Maybe Sue needs to define/explain exactly what "TM-unhausen" is >> > supposed [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] >> > >> > Webby JanD - 30 Dec 2005 19:05 GMT Maybe that is YOU?
>> Maybe Sue needs to define/explain exactly what "TM-unhausen" is supposed >> to mean to the readers in smd. [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] >> >> Webby Dartos - 01 Jan 2006 14:47 GMT > Is the NTI expensive? Do some balk at the price? Or is it mainly a > compliance issue? Wide range of fees. It's not that the NTI costs much by medical/dental standards. It's more that patients see a little piece of plastic that they feel should cost $1 and really don't believe it can help them more than the thousands of dollars they have already spent on worthless treatments.
> Do you really believe that some want to remain sick? Some (not many) sure don't want to let anything make them better.
> I don't get it. > > I was making some basic assumptions about patients. I assumed that most > patients seeking diagnosis and treatment for a problem have a genuine > desire to help themselves and to achieve wellness. For most patients, yes. But it is somewhat true for all of medicine/dentistry.
How many patients with decay problems won't give up soda pop?
How many patients with gum disease won't get 3 month cleanings, much less floss every day?
How many clenchers won't wear their NTI every night?
How many type II diabetics really exercise and change their diet?
How many patients with high blood pressure, obesity, high cholesterol, etc., etc., etc. won't take active roles in controling their disease?
Old habits die hard.
Dartos
The Webby - 30 Dec 2005 02:26 GMT > Number 1, I'm not out trying to save every person in the world with > TMJ pain, headaches, etc. I'm trying to help my patients. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > > > Sue In real life, there are people who enjoy "having TMJ" and if they "have TMJ Syndrome", that's might be even better!
Not everyone wants to get better and not everyone is sick who thinks they are or better yet: who says they are. SO .... maybe you need to try to figure out what it is you are missing.
Webby
The Webby - 30 Dec 2005 02:39 GMT In article <tmjiatroepidemic-A3B8EE.18261529122005@news-lb-02.socal.rr.com>,
> > Number 1, I'm not out trying to save every person in the world with > > TMJ pain, headaches, etc. I'm trying to help my patients. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Webby And don't forget this important matter: ***not everyone with "TM-something" has "TM-anything" and not everyone offered all those therapeutic options needs even a single one let alone some or worst of all ... all of them.
Webby
Webby
Sue - 30 Dec 2005 03:30 GMT > In article > <tmjiatroepidemic-A3B8EE.18261529122005@news-lb-02.socal.rr.com>, [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > Webby TM-unchausen's Syndrome by Proxy?
-Sue
The Webby - 30 Dec 2005 04:51 GMT > > In article > > <tmjiatroepidemic-A3B8EE.18261529122005@news-lb-02.socal.rr.com>, [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > -Sue I am not humored. And I rather doubt many other are either.
Webby
Sue - 30 Dec 2005 15:47 GMT > > > In article > > > <tmjiatroepidemic-A3B8EE.18261529122005@news-lb-02.socal.rr.com>, [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Webby Webby,
Only a joke. Sorry for the confusion.
-Sue
The Webby - 30 Dec 2005 17:04 GMT > > > > In article > > > > <tmjiatroepidemic-A3B8EE.18261529122005@news-lb-02.socal.rr.com>, [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > -Sue There is confusion and I don't see the point in making such a "joke". Maybe you can explain your joke.
Webby
The Webby - 30 Dec 2005 05:38 GMT > > In article > > <tmjiatroepidemic-A3B8EE.18261529122005@news-lb-02.socal.rr.com>, [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > -Sue And by the way ... I have absolutely no idea what it is you are trying to convey.
Dartos - 30 Dec 2005 17:04 GMT It wouldn't be 'by Proxy' unless your mom (or another person) is causing your problems.
Dartos
> TM-unchausen's Syndrome by Proxy? > > -Sue Sue - 30 Dec 2005 17:28 GMT > It wouldn't be 'by Proxy' unless your mom (or another person) is causing > your problems. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > > -Sue What about iatrogenic cause.... could that in a way... be considered by proxy?
-Sue
The Webby - 30 Dec 2005 17:31 GMT > > It wouldn't be 'by Proxy' unless your mom (or another person) is causing > > your problems. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > -Sue Sue, what ***IS*** your point?????? I can *imagine* all sorts of possibilities, but why not just explain your purpose with all this?
Webby
Wham_B - 31 Dec 2005 22:21 GMT Damn, I nominate you Dartos.
You carpet-muncher you.
>It wouldn't be 'by Proxy' unless your mom (or another person) is causing >your problems. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> -Sue -- Whamatus Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dartos - 01 Jan 2006 17:45 GMT Takes one to know one.
Dartos
> Damn, I nominate you Dartos. > > You carpet-muncher you.
>>It wouldn't be 'by Proxy' unless your mom (or another person) is causing >>your problems. >> >>Dartos >> >>>TM-unchausen's Syndrome by Proxy? W_U_B - 01 Jan 2006 22:07 GMT Is carabelli giving you lessons ?
Must be costly, but seems to be workin'...
>Takes one to know one. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >> You carpet-muncher you. -- Whamatus Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dartos - 02 Jan 2006 15:03 GMT I almost had to call him for advice. Some statements kind of box you in with no easy means of escape.
;-) D
> Is carabelli giving you lessons ? > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Whamatus_B - 31 Dec 2005 17:49 GMT >More stuff. ITYM more sh*t
>TMJ imbalance and autonomic disturbances (good reading, IMO): > >w3x.verticalsmiles.gov Your *opinion* is not worth the electrons that you waste. The ANS has nothing to do with skeletal muscle function. Period.
You are a very lonely person. Get a dog.
-- Whamatus Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Sue - 31 Dec 2005 21:23 GMT > >More stuff. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com "The ANS has nothing to do with skeletal muscle function. Period."
Reply. You must be joking. But if you are serious, then you understand less about human physiology than I realized.
Your black and white thinking may make you a fair tooth mechanic and cut-and-dry diagnostician of tooth-problems, but you are living in the dark ages when it comes to human physiology and health medicine.
-Sue
Gaaaaawd... Just Think. Think a little bit before you make a stupid broad sweeping statement. You are a health professional for God's sake. I can't stand this anymore. Think..
...Parkinson's Disease, Dystonia, Epilepsy, Infantile spasm syndrome... etc etc etc etc etc etc
These are just some obvious examples that would clue-in even the average highschool student.
Tim Dixon - 31 Dec 2005 23:08 GMT "Sue" <chrlie699@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1136064218.45894d5.5320@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
cut
Wham_B - 01 Jan 2006 20:05 GMT >> >More stuff. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> You are a very lonely person. >> Get a dog.
>> -- >> Whamatus
>"The ANS has nothing to do with skeletal muscle function. Period." > >Reply. You must be joking. But if you are serious, then you understand >less about human physiology than I realized. I know more than you. That is obvious even to the lamest reader. C-V is sensory only. You should research what C-VII is involved in.
>Your black and white thinking may make you a fair tooth mechanic and >cut-and-dry diagnostician of tooth-problems, but you are living in the >dark ages when it comes to human physiology and health medicine. Cute. I am a molar mechanic, and tooth carpenter extraordinaire. I also took Neuro-Anatomy and made an 'A'.
Your, so called *credentials* have much to do with abnormal ovine/human relations. IIRC you said something to the effect of: (paraphrased)
"I sleep with sheep" While mildly poetic, such a statement is proof of your abnormal deviant behavior. Not to mention your 'savior syndrome'
>-Sue > >Gaaaaawd... Just Think. Think a little bit before you make a stupid >broad sweeping statement. You are a health professional for God's >sake. I can't stand this anymore. Think.. You can't stand it anymore ? Now we are making some progress. Leave SMD and all your troubles will magically melt away.
Your calumniative behavior suggests a deeper psychosis than was evident at first glance.
>...Parkinson's Disease, Dystonia, Epilepsy, Infantile spasm syndrome... >etc etc etc etc etc etc CNS disorders. The cranial nerves are part of the *peripheral* nervous system. Duh. Now who is the *stupid* one. BTW "ignorant = unlearned"; "stupid = inability to learn"
>These are just some obvious examples that would clue-in even the >average highschool student. That's hilarious. Where did you get your advanced education again ? Nevermind, it was Sears & Roebuck, almost forgot.
Oh wait, you didn't even graduate from college, right ? Couldn't cut the mustard, eh ?
Go buy a dog. Wait! for you it would be a ewe, right ?
GFYSB.
-- Whamatus Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
letsconnect - 01 Jan 2006 20:25 GMT > I know more than you. That is obvious even to the lamest reader. > C-V is sensory only. > > I also took Neuro-Anatomy and made an 'A'. Only an 'A'? You deserve a Nobel prize for your discovery!
W_U_B - 01 Jan 2006 22:23 GMT >> I know more than you. That is obvious even to the lamest reader. >> C-V is sensory only. >> >> I also took Neuro-Anatomy and made an 'A'. > >Only an 'A'? You deserve a Nobel prize for your discovery! And you deserve an 'F' for applying without the pre-requisites.
What a maroon.
-- Whamatus Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
letsconnect - 02 Jan 2006 11:17 GMT > >> I know more than you. That is obvious even to the lamest reader. > >> C-V is sensory only. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > What a maroon. I think I'd be feeling bitter too if I had made an amazing discovery that challenges all our basic assumptions about the nervous system and the world didn't take any notice.
Functional Neuroanatomy: Text and Atlas Adel K. Afifi, Ronald A. Bergman 1998 McGraw-Hill ISBN: 0070015890
"The trigeminal nerve is a robust structure on the ventrolateral surface of of the pons. Two components of the nerve are usually visible: a larger (portio major) sensory and a smaller (portio minor) motor component." (p. 53)
"The trigeminal nerve has two roots: a smaller (portio minor) efferent root and a larger (portio major) afferent root. The motor root is composed of as many as 14 separately originating rootlets that are joined about 1 cm from the pons... The efferent root supplies the muscles of mastication and the tensor tympani, the tensor palati, the myelohyoid, and the anterior belly of the digastric." (p. 171)
Amatus Cremona - 02 Jan 2006 18:04 GMT > "The trigeminal nerve has two roots: a smaller (portio minor) efferent > root and a larger (portio major) afferent root. The motor root is > composed of as many as 14 separately originating rootlets that are > joined about 1 cm from the pons... The efferent root supplies the > muscles of mastication and the tensor tympani, the tensor palati, the > myelohyoid, and the anterior belly of the digastric." (p. 171) Read along a little further, please.
 Signature /
Amatus
/
> >> >> I know more than you. That is obvious even to the lamest reader. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > muscles of mastication and the tensor tympani, the tensor palati, the > myelohyoid, and the anterior belly of the digastric." (p. 171) letsconnect - 02 Jan 2006 18:49 GMT > > "The trigeminal nerve has two roots: a smaller (portio minor) efferent > > root and a larger (portio major) afferent root. The motor root is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Read along a little further, please. "The motor nucleus receives fibers from the cerebral cortex (corticobulbar) and the sensory nuclei of the trigeminal nerve. The cortical projections to trigeminal motorneurons are bilateral and symmetric via direct corticobulbar and indirect corticoreticulobulbar fibers. Lesions affecting the motor nucleus or efferent root result in paralysis of the lower motor neuron type of the muscles supplied by this root." (pp 171-173).
I don't want to get into conspiracy theories, but would it be possible that some powerful organization (I won't mention the name here) is trying to keep your sissy's findings under wraps?
> >> >> I know more than you. That is obviou |
|