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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / December 2005Why Sue is interested in Dentistry
Someone asked why I cross-posted a question by "ClaireC." Because I care about patients that pay lots of money to undergo elective cosmetic dental procedures when they do not understand the risks. Many have no idea that these procedures are NOT without risk. Many dentists do not properly inform patients. Some are more concerned about "closing the deal." I am convinced that most patients are not adequately informed about the potential risks and future complications that they may endure following these procedures. Potential Pathologies that can result from these procedures: -Root death that requires root canal threapy (RCT) -RCT can then result in root fracture or other complications such as complete fracture of the tooth -Gum recession -Altered bite relationship that can lead to TMD and/or TMJ if parafunction is already present Other Potential Complications that can occur that are often not expressed by the dentist: -Chipping of veneers -Veneers/crowns can fall off -These do not last forever; redo is necessary at some point in time *********************************************************************************** My own experience: I had bonding done years ago by a friend (Nancy, a dentist; we attended HS and college together). This was great. It covered 6 of my tetracyline stained teeth. Years later Nancy mentioned that I should consider 8 veneers (would provide a most cosmetically appealing smile). She moved out of state with her husband (another dentist, plus PhD in material science). So I sought a new dentist. After about 2 years with this new dentist, I asked about veneers. He recommended full porcelain crowns on 6 of my upper teeth to replace the bonding. He told me that he just did this on his wife, full lower and upper.. complete redo. Full crowns. So I thought he must know what he is doing if he just did this on his wife. I said I would like to do 8, as that is what Nancy had recommended. He only completed the work on 7 as it was taking too much time. But then there was a path of hell for about 2 years following this work. I still have a poor bite relationship that gives me trouble at times (chronic pain), but I deal with it. BTW, after several of the complications were attended to one by one, on one visit, my dentist informed me not to eat Power Bars. His wife had just broken her front tooth off at the base. Wow. It may have been helpful to know these precautions PRIOR to committing myself to having all of this expensive work done. What I thought would be a 2 week process ended up being a life-long irritant, months of pain and sufferring, weight loss, additional expense, a lot of missed work and psychological stress. And I could still have further complications following the RCT already performed and/or require further RCT. The latest was that one crown fell off while I was eating. That was not pleasant. Oh well. So yes. I care about patients that want to have beautiful smiles, but are largely uniformed about the potential risks involved with these expensive procedures. On a POSTIVE note. During this experience, I was helped greatly by the dentists at www.dentistry.com. Due to their kindness & diligence in seeing me through all this FOR FREE!, I decided to give back to dentistry. I contacted our MDA (state dental association). There was a program called Give Kids a Smile that needed some volunteers. This program provides 2 days of free care to children <18 in our state. I got involved. They needed someone to write a database for them and perform queries. I did this in my spare time. When the (2-day) event finally came around, my sister-in-law (who is fluent in spanish) and I helped with patients at a large clinic in Mpls. It was a wonderful experience. There were so many thankful families. There were so many healthcare professionals working toegther and spreading goodwill in our community. It was great. It made me think that my whole experience (with my own teeth) was worthwhile. It made me think that all of the bad times happened for a reason. That is how my interest in dentistry has evolved. I am sorry that my input and presence on this forum has been a rocky road with some of the participants here. I just do not understand the group dynamics here, but I wish to get along. Sincerely, Sue > That is how my interest in dentistry has evolved. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Sincerely, > Sue I will _still_ find you and I will _still_ kill you if you mention Ross Nash and Howard Farrannnnn over here.... Hope your teeth stay in one piece. SP  SignatureTake out the TRAASH to reply > Someone asked why I cross-posted a question by "ClaireC." > [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > Sincerely, > Sue Sue, Group dynamics IRL (in real life) are complicated enough. But group dynamics in a public online forum or any sort are probably far more complex than you realize. Where there is an established group, there is history. It sort of becomes a newcomer's duty to find a way to familiarity with a group that has a history as a group. I've been here since 1994. I've seen lots of posters come and go. I've even seen myself coming and going for some very interesting reasons. Everyone who comes here (even post and run spammers) does so with a reason... and everyone who stays here for a period of useful time does so with a reason and then leaves with a reason. What I'm trying to say here is that it takes work to find ones place within any group anywhere. But here in cyberspace, there are dimensions to our participation that take time and patience in order to develop. Sharing your experience was a good place to begin. As for being in the dog-house (in the kill-file) -- I don't know how you'll get yourself out, but I'm sure you can find a way because there are a lot of good hearted people here who would prefer not to see you or anyone in the dog-house too long. The Webby > > Someone asked why I cross-posted a question by "ClaireC." > > [quoted text clipped - 121 lines] > > The Webby Hi Webby, OOps. Once again I already did a "no no." Sorry. I read your post and then Gail's post and combined the two as though they were from the same person. Now I recognize my mistake. Thank you for explaining group dynamics. I will try to be more repesectful. Sue StovePipe, Thanks. You have never attempted to trash me. (If you have then it has gone completely over my head). :-) I also enjoy your humor. I will do my best not to mention the unmentionable here. I hope that you understand that when I make jokes to you (and some have been sarcastic), I mean them only in a very, very GOOD sense. It means that I feel comfortable with you. Thanks, -Sue If you think your road is rocky on this group with some participants, I think you are mistaken. You always have something useful to say, even when you include someone else. What is not clear is where was your Dad (a dentist, you said) when all this work was going on. Did you not inform him or was he too busy to notice. Sometimes we are afraid to say too much, not always knowing what is the best course, but having nothing said to me thru the years, as has been my experience always, leaves me with much consternation, at my OB physician, who I do not recall ever giving me any vitamin advice. Blame can be everywhere, and I do throw it everywhere, at least it's easier coping. One very good reason for restricting anti-depressants and stimulants, as they are definitely a source of harm, if crohns becomes a problem. Some lessons are learned in a very regrettable way. Gail > Someone asked why I cross-posted a question by "ClaireC." > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > -Veneers/crowns can fall off > -These do not last forever; redo is necessary at some point in time **************************************************************************** ******* > My own experience: > [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > Sincerely, > Sue > If you think your road is rocky on this group with some participants, I > think you are mistaken. [quoted text clipped - 112 lines] > > Sincerely, > > Sue Hi Gail, You have always been accepting of my presence here. Thank you. But I am not sure where you think I said my dad is (was) a dentist. My dad is not a dentist. He is a retired employee of 3M corporation. He worked there for 42 years. He started as an hourly employee, punching the clock, working in the mail room. His BOSS was an hourly employee punching a clock as well. In the end, my dad ended up VP of the minerals division (7 yrs before his retirement). :-) :-) I am so proud of him... he is not only intelligient, but just a great guy. He is still going strong at 80, God bless him. I suppose this is why I chose to move into industry, rather than staying in the healthcare field (as a medical technologist/hospital worker). My dad had such a great experince at 3M. Reputable corps provide incentives for expanding one's career and also provide many benefits. There are so many more opportunities in industry (as opposed to healthcare) for someone like me. (JMHO). -Sue So you think by cross-posting junk from elsewhere here you are going to be their savior? Get real, this is a joke and you should really get a life, because the way you're going you are doing more harm than good. > Someone asked why I cross-posted a question by "ClaireC." > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Many dentists do not properly inform patients. Some are more concerned > about "closing the deal." > So you think by cross-posting junk from elsewhere here you are going to be > their savior? Get real, this is a joke and you should really get a life, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Many dentists do not properly inform patients. Some are more concerned > > about "closing the deal." Get real, this is a joke and you should really get a life, because the way you're going you are doing more harm than good. #1- How do you know this is a joke? Why do you assume this person and/or situation is not real? #2- How is posting this message doing harm? Please explain your position. BTW, You needn't respond to junk if you think it is junk. -Sue >> So you think by cross-posting junk from elsewhere here you are going to >> be [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > #1- How do you know this is a joke? Why do you assume this person > and/or situation is not real? Because I don't buy it, none of it. > #2- How is posting this message doing harm? Please explain your > position. You are harming this group by posting foreign material. Did you ever stop to think that if any one here gave two hoots about those other places they would be there? > BTW, You needn't respond to junk if you think it is junk. I didn't respond to your junk, i just told you what time it was. [cut] > BTW, You needn't respond to junk if you think it is junk. > > -Sue This is the home of the regular smders. We do not walk over the junk. We pick it up and put it in the trashcan. If something of value is mistaken as a piece of junk, it is the owner's responsibility to pick it up and put it in a safe place. What you may not realize is that this newsgroup's regulars take pride in their newsgroup. Junk is not something we just ignore. We deal with it. That is what you see happening. Everyone is welcome to participate provided they don't junk the place up expecting no one cares. Webby > [cut] > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Webby What makes Claire's question junk? Some do/did not think it is junk. I certainly did not see it as junk. I wanted to hear what dentists thought about this. Two of your regulars responded to this question. I thought this was a forum to share information related to dentistry. One man's junk is another man's treasure. I guess your rules are your rules. BTW, I cannot pick up any littler as I do not have the power to delete what has already been posted and discussed. -Sue >> [cut] >> > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >I do not have the power to delete what has already been posted and >discussed. It's junk because no discussion can take place from it. Nobody can ask the poster any questions or elicit further information. It's like an exam question and it's boring to watch. What brings the group alive is conversation and you can't have that with somebody else's problem. Ann >>> [cut] >>> > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > >Ann Ann, it seems to me that you need a good private session. What you want is a good virile muscular male to satisfy your needs. An intelligent man with a bit of psychological nudity and some excellent physiologic function should suit you just fine. BTW *intelligence* is the key to "your" happiness. You require an equal that shares your sense of humor. If you have to explain a joke, it's not that funny. Of course, on the other hand, if someone is too dim to get the punch line, it's not worth repeating. G'day, / -- Whamatus Bemoana wubbabubbazG@RBAGE at yahoo dot com >>> [cut] >>> > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Ann That is as good a take on it that there is. Excellent reply! > >> [cut] > >> > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Ann Ann, I respectfully disagree. Plenty of discussion can take place. Not everyone may have the same repsonse. If you find it boring, then turn the channel. I do not read everything here because I simply do not have time. I only tune into the conversations that interest me. The only reason SOME people find my posts disruptive is because they allow them to be. They are used to things done in a certain manner. Any deviation from this causes distress for some.... perhaps boredom for others. Why not just ignore those threads and/or posts? IMO, there is absolutely no pathology in trying to help others get the information they seek. If I can help someone else out and if it makes me feel good to do so, who cares? Some people make a frickin BIG deal out of nothing, IMHO. Respectfully, -Sue >> >> [cut] >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > I respectfully disagree. Plenty of discussion can take place. Not > everyone may have the same repsonse. No-one should be discussing anything with you that comes from elsewhere. Burglar! > If you find it boring, then turn the channel. I do not read everything > here because I simply do not have time. I only tune into the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Respectfully, > -Sue Were'nt you just boo-hooing in another post about how terrible this all made you feel... > >> >> [cut] > >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > Were'nt you just boo-hooing in another post about how terrible this all made > you feel... I have come to my senses. I am starting to be able to dicsriminate the "sane" voices from the nut-cases. BTW, I have not seen any posts from you other than rants and raves about burgurlars... Just relax, you world is not going to fall apart if I continue posting. Just ignore the posts that cause you so much distress. -Sue >> >> >> [cut] >> >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > >-Sue Sort of reminds we of back when I was president of our homeowner's association. A new resident wanted to attend a meeting. She arrived with an open bottle of wine. She was so disruptive that I had to adjourn the meeting. No one could get anything done. >>Just relax, you world is not going to fall apart if I continue posting. >> Just ignore the posts that cause you so much distress. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >with an open bottle of wine. She was so disruptive that I had to >adjourn the meeting. No one could get anything done. Chiggers can't be boozers ? -- Whamatus Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>It's junk because no discussion can take place from it. Nobody can >>ask the poster any questions or elicit further information. It's like [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >>Ann > IMO, there is absolutely no pathology in trying to help others get the > information they seek. If I can help someone else out and if it makes > me feel good to do so, who cares? > Respectfully, > -Sue I would be the first to admit that it would be hard to find a group of dentists who are as caring, intelligent, conservative (yet up on new technology), honest, and ethical as those on SMD <G>. I do not see why a person would surf the net finding people in need of dental information, come to 'us' with those problems, and then take posts from SMD back to these cases. It would be more acceptable if these people would come to SMD themselves to ask questions. This allows for a deeper look at the entire situation. While it is certainly impossible to diagnose anything over the internet, there are many times where the first post by a patient does not give adequate data to make any significant comment. I guess there are no net-police to stop you from taking any of our comments to where ever you please, but my intent would be for my posts to stay on SMD and not be reprinted without my permission. Dartos Hey Bosco if you want lo discuss a topic, write it out in your own words. Don't paste someone else's questions. >> [cut] >> > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >-Sue > Hey Bosco if you want lo discuss a topic, write it out in your own > words. Don't paste someone else's questions. She/he/it isn't able to. > So you think by cross-posting junk from elsewhere here you are going to be > their savior? Get real, this is a joke and you should really get a life, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Many dentists do not properly inform patients. Some are more concerned > > about "closing the deal." Tim, No. I do not propose to be anybody's savior. I am personally interested in what dentists have to say about this as well. I am interested in hearing what the general office policies are in cases such as this. I was responsible for paying for all of the complications the ensued following my elective cosmetic work.... except for one crown that the endodontist shattered during a root canal procedure. My dentist was going to try to patch it up but then in the end he replaced it. He did not charge me for the replacement. However he lectured me. He told me to NEXT time tell the endodontist to use a diamond bur. I was hoping there would not BE a next time. I sure wish he had told me all this before I accepted the treatment plan. I did not know these procedures were so risky. I did not know that I would end up with several RCs, bone infection, sinus problems and a bad bite that still causes me pain. And I am not mad at dentists. I think they are still learning about all of this as well. I don't think all dentists are aware either. Sue > I am sorry that my input and presence on this forum has been a rocky > road with some of the participants here. I just do not understand the > group dynamics here, but I wish to get along. You have been told in the past. If this is to tough for you to understand, then there is no sense saying it again. Signature. Amatus . > Someone asked why I cross-posted a question by "ClaireC." > [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] > Sincerely, > Sue > > I am sorry that my input and presence on this forum has been a rocky > > road with some of the participants here. I just do not understand the [quoted text clipped - 108 lines] > > Sincerely, > > Sue Good. Then please do not say it. -Sue >> You have been told in the past. If this is to tough for you to >> understand, >> then there is no sense saying it again. > Good. Then please do not say it. > -Sue Oh I think you will be hearing it every time you post. Simple answer ...... teeth ... bowling ...... why not? > Someone asked why I cross-posted a question by "ClaireC." > [quoted text clipped - 95 lines] > Sincerely, > Sue Didn't she already post her question here? Signature""""" Philip Atooth {Tooth mechanic extraordinaire} """" > Someone asked why I cross-posted a question by "ClaireC." > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > potential risks and future complications that they may endure following > these procedures. |
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