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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / December 2005Should I get the root canal before the crown?
I got #30 prepared for a crown the other day. The dentist wanted to refer me to an endodontist, he said, as a preventative measure because he drilled VERY close to the pulp, he said, but not so close as to REQUIRE a root canal; he just felt I should probably get it before putting on the crown. Then, when I paid up at the deak, he reversed his decision and said I didn't need the root canal unless it started hurting. Well, there is SOME pain and I can't tell if this is normal pain from the drilling or if this is pain meaning I need a root canal. Maybe you can help me figure it out? I didn't feel any real pain except post drilling soreness the first evening. Nor the next day. Then, last night, after I ate a protein bar, I began feeling some pain, a dull achey pain, not exactly like a toothache but something like that. Then, it did not hurt today. Then, tonight, I was hungry at work again, so ate a protein bar again. Tried not to chew on that temp. crown, but I'm sure I did somewhat, as I have few teeth to chew with (no meeting molars, really) until I get my implants. Sure enough it started to hurt again. So, does this mean I probably need a root canal, or does it just mean I shouldn't chew protein bars on my temp. crown? I am leaning towards getting the root canal, now, before the crown. But then, my wife had bad experiences with root canals, so I am very wary of getting them. This would be with a different endodontist, one who went to USC, so that gives me some hope they might be done right... Any comments? I know you can't tell for sure without looking at xrays but just anecdotal ballpark guesses are welcome if you care to guess. > I got #30 prepared for a crown the other day. The dentist wanted to > refer me to an endodontist, he said, as a preventative measure because [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Any comments? I know you can't tell for sure without looking at xrays > but just anecdotal ballpark guesses are welcome if you care to guess. Spontaneous pain is pretty suggestive, esp. if it is getting more pronounced rather than less. It's tougher to evaluate sensitivity to sweets, which can be a normal reaction esp. if the temporary crown doesn't seal very well. I'd like to know if there is temperature sensitivity, and esp. if it is momentary or prolonged. Steve > Spontaneous pain is pretty suggestive, esp. if it is getting more >pronounced rather than less. It's tougher to evaluate sensitivity to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Steve Thanks for answering Dr. Bornfeld. It seems to be either just sweets, or just pressure on the tooth from chewing. I assume the former but could be just pressure? (although when I push on it with my finger it does not hurt, but maybe chewing??) Drinking hot tea (not piping hot, but hot) does not affect it. The pain is prolonged. It kept hurting more and more (though never what I would call severe, just enough to make me very uncomfortable), and I took 4 ibuprofens and it went away. (I'm a sissy when it comes to pain, I just go for the maximum dose of ibuprofen in a case like this.) p.s. Another clue: The tooth once again does not hurt this morning. Both time it has hurt, it was only after eating a protein bar, then it goes away at night, after ibuprofen and - so far - does not hurt again unless I eat a protein bar. (Right. I won't eat any more protein bars today!) I drank hot tea with sugar, no problem. So it's very hard to tell WHY it hurts. Is it the pressure of chewing on a protein bar, or is it the sweet chocolate coating, or ? >Is it the pressure of chewing on a protein bar, or > is it the sweet chocolate coating, or ? If it hurts for more than 20 seconds, I would ask you to plan on the RCT. I could be wrong, but you need to be prepared.  Signature/ Amatus / > p.s. Another clue: The tooth once again does not hurt this morning. > Both time it has hurt, it was only after eating a protein bar, then it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > tell WHY it hurts. Is it the pressure of chewing on a protein bar, or > is it the sweet chocolate coating, or ? >p.s. Another clue: The tooth once again does not hurt this morning. >Both time it has hurt, it was only after eating a protein bar, If you're gonna eat a protein bar at the same time you have a temp crown, chew on the front teeth or the other side to avoid irritating the tooth. pamper that tooth, keep it very clean. >then it >goes away at night, after ibuprofen and - so far - does not hurt again >unless I eat a protein bar. stop chewing (protein bars)on the temp crown tooth. >(Right. I won't eat any more protein bars >today!) I drank hot tea with sugar, no problem. So it's very hard to >tell WHY it hurts. Is it the pressure of chewing on a protein bar, or >is it the sweet chocolate coating, or ? If you chewed bubble gum on that tooth is it the pressure of the gum or the sugar in the gum? probably both, avoid. >>p.s. Another clue: The tooth once again does not hurt this morning. >>Both time it has hurt, it was only after eating a protein bar, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >pressure of the gum or the sugar in the gum? >probably both, avoid. Thanks. You are right that I should avoid it. However, it is very difficult as I have no chewing teeth that meet other chewing teeth on the left side (uppers meeting lowers) until I get the implants in a few months. >>>p.s. Another clue: The tooth once again does not hurt this morning. >>>Both time it has hurt, it was only after eating a protein bar, [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >other chewing teeth on the left side (uppers meeting lowers) until I >get the implants in a few months. aha. I see. I did not know that. ;-) > >>p.s. Another clue: The tooth once again does not hurt this morning. > >>Both time it has hurt, it was only after eating a protein bar, [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > other chewing teeth on the left side (uppers meeting lowers) until I > get the implants in a few months. Then if you're worried about your nutrition, you can always substitute products that are meal replacements such as Sustical (I don't like it), Boost, etc. .... or even Instant Breakfast for a reasonable period of time. More than likely you just aren't thinking long-term about your nutritional needs and rightly so ... your dental problem is really short-term even though it doesn't seem that way; and almost everyone can understand your frustration. It isn't a matter of months and months or years and years if it's only a matter of restoring a tooth... so don't worry too much. If you have some nutritional questions ... ask away! There are participants here who would be most willing to offer some guidance. Webby >Then if you're worried about your nutrition, you can always substitute >products that are meal replacements such as Sustical (I don't like it), [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Webby Thanks. I could stand to lose a few pounds, anyway. >> Spontaneous pain is pretty suggestive, esp. if it is getting more >>pronounced rather than less. It's tougher to evaluate sensitivity to [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > to pain, I just go for the maximum dose of ibuprofen in a case like > this.) Doesn't sound too good to me. Sorry, Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >> The pain is prolonged. It kept hurting more and more (though never >> what I would call severe, just enough to make me very uncomfortable), [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Sorry, >Steve I recommend an evaluation by an endodontist. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Thanks again to all for replying. I realize it is impossible to give solid advice via the net, but sometimes just a discussion of it can help point me in the right direction. Beng that the original dentist told me before the crown that he had a feeling it might require RCT and that he - at first, anyway - recommended it after he drilled the tooth, I am leaning towards having the endo look at it and make a decision. Only problem is that I am going on vacation for 6 days starting Sunday and so we'll see if I can get into see him this week. Perhaps a dumb question, but will the endo re-install the temp crown or will I have to go back to the dentist who's doing the crown, in a seperate appt. - to get the temp crown re-done? I'll let you know how it comes out. (NO PUN intended!) > Thanks again to all for replying. I realize it is impossible to give > solid advice via the net, but sometimes just a discussion of it can [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > going on vacation for 6 days starting Sunday and so we'll see if I can > get into see him this week. I wondered what was worrying you so much and maybe your upcoming vacation was "in the way"... or your tooth was in the way of it!! Anyway, I do hope you get this worked out to a point that will allow you reasonable peace of mind while away from home. > Perhaps a dumb question, but will the endo re-install the temp crown or > will I have to go back to the dentist who's doing the crown, in a > seperate appt. - to get the temp crown re-done? > > I'll let you know how it comes out. (NO PUN intended!) Stay in touch and I hope you enjoy your getaway. Webby > Perhaps a dumb question, but will the endo re-install the temp crown or > will I have to go back to the dentist who's doing the crown, in a > separate appt. - to get the temp crown re-done? Yes, no and maybe. :-) IT may or may not be removed to do the RCT. The endodontist may or may not put it back. Each one is different. Signature/ Amatus / > Thanks again to all for replying. I realize it is impossible to give > solid advice via the net, but sometimes just a discussion of it can [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I'll let you know how it comes out. (NO PUN intended!) >> Perhaps a dumb question, but will the endo re-install the temp crown or >> will I have to go back to the dentist who's doing the crown, in a >> separate appt. - to get the temp crown re-done? > >Yes, no and maybe. :-) IT may or may not be removed to do the RCT. The >endodontist may or may not put it back. Each one is different. Thanks. The thing is I only have the rest of the week before I go on vacation. I am afraid if I go before getting the RCT I may end up in pain on vacation. But not sure I can get in or not, and if so, if I'd have time for ANOTHER appointment to get the temp. crown replaced at the other dentist. Bad timing on this whole thing... That's the holidays for you! I don't know about anyone else, but I always feel pressured at this time of year, with gifts, parties, etc.. and then having to have a crown and root canal etc. on top of it! I'm sorry, but I don't feel able to give any meaningful advice based only on internet descriptions (not that you've done a bad job). Seeing the tooth IRL (before & after the prep) would sure help. Since I can't do that, "I don't know" will have to do. It may be fine or it may need endo. Best wishes, Dartos > I am leaning towards getting the root canal, now, before the crown. > But then, my wife had bad experiences with root canals, so I am very [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Any comments? I know you can't tell for sure without looking at xrays > but just anecdotal ballpark guesses are welcome if you care to guess. >I'm sorry, but I don't feel able to give any meaningful advice >based only on internet descriptions (not that you've done a bad job). [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Best wishes, >Dartos Thanks anyway. I am leaning towards getting the endo. Let me ask you this: How risky is it getting a root canal that one does not need, in general? In other words, we know the dentist said he drilled close to the pulp and he thought it might be a good idea to get the root canal preventatively. Let's say the current pain means nothing and I would never need a root canal, but I make a judgement call and get one anyway. What is the downside? How likely is the "preventative" root canal itself, to cause me a problem down the road? My prediction is that you will have RCT done. Signature""""" Philip Atooth {Tooth mechanic extraordinaire} """" > Sure enough it started to hurt again. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Any comments? I know you can't tell for sure without looking at xrays > but just anecdotal ballpark guesses are welcome if you care to guess. >My prediction is that you will have RCT done. Why do you say that? Yes, I am leaning towards it because from my limited experience it feels like I might need one. But really I am not particularly wanting to get it done. In fact I hate getting them done, both for reasons of painful dentistry and for reasons of complications afterward. Do you have an opinion? Or can you enlighten me as to when one knows whether to get one or not? (aside from waking up screaming in pain in the middle of the night!) > >My prediction is that you will have RCT done. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > whether to get one or not? (aside from waking up screaming in pain in > the middle of the night!) Out of personal curiosity, ... what worries you the most about having this treatment done on the tooth at some point in advance of "waking up..."? Webby > Why do you say that? There is no way to give you real meaningful advice over the internet, but my gut feeling is that the tooth is going downhill. Teeth with RCT are more complex than a tooth without RCT. There is one more thing which could go wrong in the future. Although, one might argue that it is one less tooth which can cause pain later. Signature/ Amatus / > >>My prediction is that you will have RCT done. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > whether to get one or not? (aside from waking up screaming in pain in > the middle of the night!) Well, here's the latest: I hope the assistant at the dentist knows what she was talking about, she seemed very confident that I did not need a root canal, at least not according to the symptoms as I described them. She said they put a very think acrylic coating over the tooth (temp. crown) and that it would be very sensitive to pressure on it. She said if I needed a root canal it would not be just from eating something like a protein bar, but would be unprovoked, like waking up in the middle of the night with it, and that it would likely be a stronger, sharper pain than what I am having. She said that if it starts when eating and then goes away after awhile means it is likely just from the pressure on the tooth from eating, due to the temp. crown. I won't be surprised if some of you will disagree with this, and I am certainly not an expert in any way myself. But after talking with her, I am now leaning towards thinking she might be right, it seemed like she's been through this before with other patients with temp. crowns. It does strike me as odd that it only hurts after I put pressure on it like with a protein bar; so that goes along with what she was saying. So anyway, I am going to try more than ever not to chew with that tooth and hope I can get through until I get the perm. crown. I sure hope I don't end up in pain with the need for RCT while I'm on vacation! > Well, here's the latest: > I hope the assistant at the dentist knows what she was talking about, [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > hope I don't end up in pain with the need for RCT while I'm on > vacation! (!) Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > (!) > >Steve Can you elaborate on that? Can I assume you disagree? >> (!) >> >>Steve > > Can you elaborate on that? Can I assume you disagree? You have (perhaps inadvertantly) given me the impression that you were sitting on the fence (based upon what the dentist had told you) but you were finally convinced that you should defer treatment for now based on what the dental assistant said. She may be smart, but...I wouldn't want my assistants making my clinical decisions for me! Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > You have (perhaps inadvertantly) given me the impression that you were >sitting on the fence (based upon what the dentist had told you) but you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Steve Thanks for elaborating. As you recall the dentist originally wanted to do a preventative RCT but then changed his mind and said to do it only if I felt pain that would indicate a need for it. The way she described the pain that would indicate the need for RCT, it convinced me that she was repeating what he had told her, (standard operating procedure) and that it made sense. If it were a need for an RCT would it hurt only when I eat or drink something, or would it hurt at other times as well? You think I should call back and ask to talk to the dentist, describe the symptoms to him, personally? >> You have (perhaps inadvertantly) given me the impression that you were >>sitting on the fence (based upon what the dentist had told you) but you [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > You think I should call back and ask to talk to the dentist, describe > the symptoms to him, personally? I don't think there is any one pattern of pain that is going to definitively answer this for you. Severe pain obviously means you have a problem; the absence of pain is no guarantee you're out of the woods. Even with most indicators pointing one way, you must accept that some of the time we will be wrong. Over time things tend to get clearer; in your case and given your desire to avoid root canal if possible, I might be inclined to do the crown and insert it with temporary cement for a couple of months. If things have totally settled down at that time, cement it permanently; if things still are questionable, go for the root canal. Best, Steve >>> You have (perhaps inadvertantly) given me the impression that you were >>>sitting on the fence (based upon what the dentist had told you) but you [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >Best, >Steve Thanks again, Steve. I'll definitely consider this option (of using temp. cement) if I haven't ended up screaming in pain and a subsequent root canal between now and the time I get the perm crown put in on Dec. 20th. I am also seeing the woman at USC who's going to be doing my crowns for the implants tomorrow, so maybe she'll have some light to shed on the situation. Maybe she - or the guy who will be doing the surgery for my implants - might even get me in to see an endodontist over there tomorrow to take a look. All depends on how busy they are and how inclined to help me they are. So far the oral surgery student has gone out of his way to help me, getting me free xrays - both full mouth and a panoramic, and says he'll give me a free cleaning as well; so maybe he can get me an xray tomorrow and get an opinion from an endo. Not a sure thing, but I'll at least ask if it might be possible. The temp. cement idea sounds like a good one. I'll definitely mention it to my "regular" dentist when I go back to him on the 20th. Thanks. It sure helps having you here to ask questions. I appreciate you and all the others here who do so. If you're the average person and only get a filling here and there you may not need a group like this; but if you're like me, with a mouth full of problems, and problem-dentists, too, this group really helps! (-; > Thanks again, Steve. I'll definitely consider this option (of using > temp. cement) if I haven't ended up screaming in pain and a subsequent [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > if you're like me, with a mouth full of problems, and > problem-dentists, too, this group really helps! (-; My pleasure! Best, Steve > I got #30 prepared for a crown the other day. The dentist wanted to > refer me to an endodontist, he said, as a preventative measure because > he drilled VERY close to the pulp, he said, but not so close as to > REQUIRE a root canal; he just felt I should probably get it before > putting on the crown. Well, I can't make a diagnosis on the internet. It's possible he's near the pulp, I don't know that. Vital teeth, without RCT, are generally stronger than devitalised. So if it's not needed, keep it vital. What's really a pain in the neck is a RCT on a teeth with a crown over it. Especially those zirconium crowns, I really hate them. Perhaps he wanted to do a pre-emptive treatment because he's expecting a treatment in the future. I don't know. If we had an x-ray, we could say more. > So, does this mean I probably need a root canal, or does it just mean > I shouldn't chew protein bars on my temp. crown? If the pain lasts for a long time, I should perform the root canal treatment. But I don't have a clue about your situation, so I really don't know. >Well, I can't make a diagnosis on the internet. It's possible he's near >the pulp, I don't know that. Yes, he said he drilled VERY near the pulp in preparing for the crown. >Vital teeth, without RCT, are generally >stronger than devitalised. So if it's not needed, keep it vital. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >wanted to do a pre-emptive treatment because he's expecting a treatment >in the future. I don't know. If we had an x-ray, we could say more. Yes, he told me before the drilling that it was likely it might require a root canal. Then after he said that he drilled very close and that it may be a good idea to get a root canal preventatively. But then before I left the office he reversed that decision and said "wait and see". >> So, does this mean I probably need a root canal, or does it just mean >> I shouldn't chew protein bars on my temp. crown? > >If the pain lasts for a long time, I should perform the root canal >treatment. But I don't have a clue about your situation, so I really >don't know. It seems to hurt after I eat, then calm down. This is what the assistant described as meaning I do not need the RCT. I am confused as to what to do. > Yes, he said he drilled VERY near the pulp in preparing for the crown. A minimal preparation will be 3 mm from the pulp. An average one will be 1-2 mm from the pulp. Many restorations are less than a mm from the pulp. I don't get excited unless I can see the pulp through a thin layer of dentin. And, then only mildly excited. I get much more excited over symptoms. Lingering pain almost always means RCT no matter how you stimulate it. Signature/ Amatus / > >>Well, I can't make a diagnosis on the internet. It's possible he's near [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > assistant described as meaning I do not need the RCT. I am confused as > to what to do. >> Yes, he said he drilled VERY near the pulp in preparing for the crown. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >symptoms. Lingering pain almost always means RCT no matter how you >stimulate it. And if the tooth 'blushes' go ahead and RCT. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > And if the tooth 'blushes' go ahead and RCT. In the world of cores and temporaries, I would agree. In the world of CAD-CAM and in the absence of pre-op symptoms and radiographic abnormalities, I keep going. I have never had one blow up afterwards (yet). Signature/ Amatus / > >>> Yes, he said he drilled VERY near the pulp in preparing for the crown. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >> And if the tooth 'blushes' go ahead and RCT. > >In the world of cores and temporaries, I would agree. In the world of >CAD-CAM and in the absence of pre-op symptoms and radiographic >abnormalities, I keep going. I have never had one blow up afterwards (yet). Now, I mean really 'blushing' not just a little pink pulp horn. Are we on the same page ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com George, are you referring to the whole pulpal floor going pink ? Signature/ Amatus / > >>> And if the tooth 'blushes' go ahead and RCT. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >George, are you referring to the whole pulpal floor going pink ? Either that, or the facial of either an anterior or bicuspid. It is a sudden 'pinking' of most of a surface. Have only seen it a very few times, these teeth eventually needed RCT. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com I have seen that 1-2 times, and agree that those teeth need RCT. Boy, you and I must be sisters. Signature/ Amatus / > >>George, are you referring to the whole pulpal floor going pink ? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Dad would be proud. >I have seen that 1-2 times, and agree that those teeth need RCT. Boy, you >and I must be sisters. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> Take out the G'RBAGE >> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com -- Whamatus Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Too bad what happened to Mom. Signature/ Amatus / > > Dad would be proud. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Damn crying shame if you ask me. >Too bad what happened to Mom. > >> Dad would be proud. >> >>>I have seen that 1-2 times, and agree that those teeth need RCT. Boy, you >>>and I must be sisters. -- Whamatus Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >> Yes, he said he drilled VERY near the pulp in preparing for the crown. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >symptoms. Lingering pain almost always means RCT no matter how you >stimulate it. But is it not possible, or likely, as some have told me, that it is only because of the temp. crown? That is, that once I get the perm crown, the lingering pain will go away? I am ready and willing to get the rct, it's just that I don't know how to tell if I need it or not. Guess the bottom line is I need to see an endo for him to decide. I was hoping this lingering pain would go away, but what happens is that it tends to go away during the day then return in the evening or night, after eating, or drinking hot tea. >>> Yes, he said he drilled VERY near the pulp in preparing for the crown. >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >away, but what happens is that it tends to go away during the day then >return in the evening or night, after eating, or drinking hot tea. Lingering pain is never a good sign. Go see the Endodontist already. Sheesh ! -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>>> Yes, he said he drilled VERY near the pulp in preparing for the crown. >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Go see the Endodontist already. Sheesh ! I asked the professor/supervisor of my USC dental school dentist about it, today, and he said that it sounds very much like normal pain with a temporary crown. He said that unless it starts hurting a LOT and increasing in pain, then I can assume it is just the temp. crown being sensitive. The same as what the dentist's office told me the other day. He said that the dentist should only use temporary cement for the crown, and wait a few weeks (or ? I forget how long he said) to see how it goes, and then if it doesn't hurt, THEN cement it permanently. Makes sense to me. I notice that if I try real hard not to eat using that tooth then it doesn't hurt. I've even learned not to drink on that side, to kind of push the liquid to the other side of my mouth. I only have 13 more days before I get the crown, so I will just try to hold out until then. If I don't wake up screaming in pain between now and then, and it feels okay once I get the perm. crown on it, then I guess I can assume it doesn't need a root canal. I suppose the dentist will do some testing/looking at it before he cements the crown, in any case. > I suppose the dentist will do > some testing/looking at it before he cements the crown, in any case. From a capitation plan dentist ? Signature/ Amatus / >> I suppose the dentist will do >> some testing/looking at it before he cements the crown, in any case. > >From a capitation plan dentist ? Yes, some capitation dentists have one of two very technical tests for crowns. 1) If the margin doesn't hang a lab coat as you walk by ... cement it. 2) If it gets pasts the lips it fits. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com There is an image retuning on my crystal ball again. It looks much like the last one. Wait, wait, I see a smiling man. He is leaving a dental office. In his hand is a paid receipt for a RCT. I see him going home and eating comfortably that day. The image is changing, I now see wait aha! he is now changing his dental insurance to an indemnity plan. He is swearing to never use another HMO or PPO. He seems so wise in this view. Now the ball is getting dark again. Signature/ Amatus / > >>> Yes, he said he drilled VERY near the pulp in preparing for the crown. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > away, but what happens is that it tends to go away during the day then > return in the evening or night, after eating, or drinking hot tea. >There is an image retuning on my crystal ball again. It looks much like the >last one. Wait, wait, I see a smiling man. He is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >HMO or PPO. He seems so wise in this view. Now the ball is getting dark >again. Jim SoDum is just hanging on to the opinions that he wants to hear. BTW, your magic 8 ball seems to work so much better than mine. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >Jim SoDum is just hanging on to the opinions that >he wants to hear. Do you insult your patients this way, too? If so, it doesn't matter if you are a capitation plan dentist or not, I would not go to you. >>Jim SoDum is just hanging on to the opinions that >>he wants to hear. > >Do you insult your patients this way, too? If so, it doesn't matter if >you are a capitation plan dentist or not, I would not go to you. I wouldn't want you as a patient, guess we're even, Jim SoDum. -- Whamatus Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >There is an image retuning on my crystal ball again. It looks much like the >last one. Wait, wait, I see a smiling man. He is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >HMO or PPO. He seems so wise in this view. Now the ball is getting dark >again. If the patient you are seeing is me, I am finishing off the crown with this dentist on Dec. 20, because I have already paid for it and - so far - he seems to do good work. No one seems to be able to tell me for sure if I need a root canal or not, from looking at the xrays. They all say to wait and see if it starts hurting. So I'm following the advice I have gotten from several experts. As a non-dentist, mere patient, at some point I have to just rely on those advising me, who I trust to have the knowledge to read the symptoms and xrays, etc. As to insurance plans, I am having all my work done at USC from now on; they are going to do my implants, crowns, and some fillings. I was very impressed with the advanced student dentist I had yesterday, and her prof came by and went over everything point by point with her, and it appeared she was right on the money with all her analyses. She will be assigned to me all the way through this school year and will be making my crowns for the implants. They take the Delta DPO? or PPO? not sure which yet, plan, (not a capitation plan) and since I'm going there in any case, I am thinking of buying the insurance plan they take which will save me SOME money on the procedures I'm going to be doing there anyway. (crowns, fillings, NOT implants which no insurance , to my knowledge, covers) I'm pretty sure they don't cut corners at USC dental school. But if any one has evidence to the contrary I'd like to hear it. I'm DONE with Delta Care PMI, forever, once I get this crown finished (it saved me little if any money, in any case), and the quality of care with that particular dentist remains to be seen; so far it seems good. I think he does good work, but he's just a cheat in terms of the bait and switch technique, in order to make money off the patients who come in on the plan. In any case, it seems $525 isn't a bad price for the drilling and crown, assuming he does it well; which, as I say, remains to be seen. In any case I already paid for it, so all I can do is hope for the best and let him know that I WILL require that it be done right. >No one seems to be able to tell me for >sure if I need a root canal or not, from looking at the xrays. That's why it has been repeatedly recommended that you see an endodontist, a specialist in the diseases and treatment of pulpal pathology. Yet you keep hanging on to opinions that support what you want to be true. Jim SoDum or should it be Jim SoDim ? -- Whamatus Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>No one seems to be able to tell me for >>sure if I need a root canal or not, from looking at the xrays. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Jim SoDum or should it be Jim SoDim ? Kill filed. Bye. With your people skills and manners I'm sure you will be successful in life. I'm not dumb, but I'd rather be dumb than an a-hole. >>Jim SoDum or should it be Jim SoDim ? >Kill filed. Bye. See how easy that was folks ? Thanks Jim SoDim. -- Whamatus Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > >>Jim SoDum or should it be Jim SoDim ? > >Kill filed. Bye. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > >>No one seems to be able to tell me for > >>sure if I need a root canal or not, from looking at the xrays. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > be successful in life. I'm not dumb, but I'd rather be dumb than an > a-hole. Jim, I realize that you have a lot of history here. I remember when you first came on and had questions about the extensive implant work that you are now undergoing. So I realize that you may not want to start over with your story somewhere else. However if you do not want to be "trash-talked," you may consider www.dentistry.com when you have questions about care for your teeth. Another place is www.allexperts.com (dentistry). They will not trash you there. Personally I hope you can ignore the buckshot and stay. There are a couple of good professionals here that will always treat you respectfully. Good luck, Sue > However if you do not want to be "trash-talked," you may consider > www.dentistry.com when you have questions about care for your teeth. > Another place is www.allexperts.com (dentistry). They will not trash > you there. sounds like a perfect place for you to move on over to, you know, it's up 3 sites and to the left. don't let the door hit you on the way out... >> >>No one seems to be able to tell me for >> >>sure if I need a root canal or not, from looking at the xrays. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >Sue Thanks Sue. Maybe I'll check those out. I have learned to use Agent's Kill Filter which allows me to kill-file those who cannot conduct themselves in a civil manner. I don't mind being disagreed with or argued with, but I don't tolerate name calling. When someone calls me dumb or a prick or whatever, I just kill file them. I find a few of the dentists here to be very helpful, especially Dr. Bornfeld. The bigger question is, Is this group specifically for dentists to discuss dentistry among themselves, or is it also for patients with problems, or patients to discuss problems among themselves, too? If I am not welcome here, that is, if patients are not welcome to post here, I will move to another group. Someone complaining because you posted someone else's problem here puzzled me. I don't see anything wrong with it. It was as dental problem, and though not your's, it was something you wanted to find out about, and I found it interesting as well. But I am not a dentist, and if this is just for dentists, then fine, I'll go somewhere else. >>> >>No one seems to be able to tell me for >>> >>sure if I need a root canal or not, from looking at the xrays. [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > out about, and I found it interesting as well. But I am not a dentist, > and if this is just for dentists, then fine, I'll go somewhere else. You don't get it either. Go read sues, (or chrlie, claire, or whoever she/he/its real name is) profile and you might understand why we don't like her bringing foreign material into sci.med.dentistry. She has a bad habit of doing this and no-one I know of likes it one bit. >>>>>No one seems to be able to tell me for >>>>>sure if I need a root canal or not, from looking at the xrays. [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > out about, and I found it interesting as well. But I am not a dentist, > and if this is just for dentists, then fine, I'll go somewhere else. This is usenet--it's the wild west. Patients have always been welcome to post, as have dentists, partisans, fringe characters, net kooks, philosophers, and political propagandizers. Others have been known to throw stones. Spammers are more or less uniformly scorned, but they bother me less than many others. I have participated in moderated forums, and while they CAN be more civil, they usually wind up reflecting more or less the political/philosophical inclinations of the moderator. So I prefer an unmoderated forum, where it's all out there, and I can pick and choose from whom I wish to listen. The problem with the other forums is the history here. Some others, and esp. Joel Eichen (who when he posts regularly generally posts more copiously than everyone else combined) have in the relatively recent past cross-posted between other dental forums and smd. A very few characters with axes to grind very quickly increased the total posting volume to a level which made if very difficult to follow threads or conduct a cohesive discussion--posts got lost, and many people became discouraged enough to quit posting for this period of time. It is not clear to me why this should be so; but the cross posting severely disrupted this newsgroup for a period of a few months. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >It is not clear to me why this should be so; but the cross posting >severely disrupted this newsgroup for a period of a few months. > >Steve The clarity is in your very first sentence. > This is usenet--it's the wild west. Would have added another 'wild', but that's just me. You do remember that show, right ? -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% You can go a long way with a smile. You can go a lot farther with a smile and a gun. -Al Capone (1899 - 1947) >Thanks Sue. Maybe I'll check those out. I have learned to use Agent's >Kill Filter which allows me to kill-file those who cannot conduct >themselves in a civil manner. Then you should KF yourself, Jim SoDim >I don't mind being disagreed with or >argued with, Your usenet behavior suggests otherwise. >but I don't tolerate name calling. When someone calls me >dumb or a prick or whatever, I just kill file them. The usual response from someone without any self confidence. Cannot tolerate opinions that differ from their own magical thinking. >I find a few of the dentists here to be very helpful, especially Dr. >Bornfeld. Bornfeld is always a gentleman. >The bigger question is, <clip> There goes that terminal verbal diarrhea again. Jim SoDim, here is a challenge and some facts. My public e-mail addy is tacked on to everyone of my posts. It's time that you 'cowboy up' and act like a real man. Yeah, you said you KF'd me. I call you a coward. Come get some, / -- Whamatus Bemoana wubbabubbazG@RBAGE at yahoo dot com >Thanks Sue. Maybe I'll check those out. I have learned to use Agent's >Kill Filter which allows me to kill-file those who cannot conduct >themselves in a civil manner. Then you should KF yourself, Jim SoDim >I don't mind being disagreed with or >argued with, Your usenet behavior suggests otherwise. >but I don't tolerate name calling. When someone calls me >dumb or a prick or whatever, I just kill file them. The usual response from someone without any self confidence. Cannot tolerate opinions that differ from their own magical thinking. >I find a few of the dentists here to be very helpful, especially Dr. >Bornfeld. Bornfeld is always a gentleman. >The bigger question is, <clip> There goes that terminal verbal diarrhea again. Jim SoDim, here is a challenge and some facts. My public e-mail addy is tacked on to everyone of my posts. It's time that you 'cowboy up' and act like a real man. Yeah, you said you KF'd me. I call you a coward. Come get some, How are your KFs working now Dilbert ? -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% You can go a long way with a smile. You can go a lot farther with a smile and a gun. -Al Capone (1899 - 1947) > >> >>No one seems to be able to tell me for > >> >>sure if I need a root canal or not, from looking at the xrays. [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > out about, and I found it interesting as well. But I am not a dentist, > and if this is just for dentists, then fine, I'll go somewhere else. Jim, This site is not just for dentists. This site is for the public too. That is the beauty (and the beast) of this site as compared to the "big" site down the road called Dentaltown. I agree whole-heartedly about Dr. Bornfeld. He knows how to communicate well. He is respectful of patient's concerns, even when his patience may be tested. I have enjoyed your input JimsoCal. You have a huge road ahead of you (with all the implants you are getting). It is not only a large expense, but a time consuming process as well. You seem to be taking a lot of interest in keeping up with your oral health now. That is great! You are mentor for others who may be struggling with some of their own oral health issues. Good luck to you, Sue >> >> >>No one seems to be able to tell me for >> >> >>sure if I need a root canal or not, from looking at the xrays. [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > Sue What site are you talking about knucklehead? This is usenet, you know, nntp, not http.. you need to go back to that forum so you can do some more paraphrasing about what all the dentists have to say around here. Take note, you start saying all the dentists here agree with something you posted, you better quote it exactly, and who said what, unless you want to find yourself being deposed. It wouldn't be the first time someone like you was hauled into court... >Jim, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Sue Thanks Sue. I don't know your history here, all I know is you've been civil as far as I can see, and that is all I ask of anyone on usenet. Dr. Bornfeld says it's okay for patients to post here, so I'll continue to post, if I am moved to do so. Unless it just gets too crazy with too many people just flaming, in which case not only myself but likely others will stop posting as well. Those of you who attempt to draw me into a flame war, as soon as I see that type of behavior I just kill file you. I only name-call when someone else calls me names, then I do it only once, to let you know you will be kill-filed, and that is that. I don't come here to fight with people. If you enjoy fighting with people then go ahead, though I'm sure most would rather you take it elsewhere. Anyone who changes their screen name in order to continue an argument with someone after they've been kill-filed is really just a troll. You know who you are. |
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