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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / November 2005The Dr. K Book
As promised (to Clinton Z...not Bill Clinton) I have been reading Dr. Kulacz's book. I am not finding any thing I would say is untrue, except for the continual suggestion that the book shows things most dentists know nothing about. Contrary to this suggestion, I find that the book describes many things that are very ordinary. They may have a low incidence of occurrence, but they are no mystery to any competent dentist. The fact the author came to this group and used terms like idiots and tooth carpenters, yet has authored a book that seeks to mystify very ordinary things makes those earlier comments rather confusing. As noted in an earlier post, there are many photographs of ordinary things that have captions that seem aimed at alarming the unknowing viewer. I am just an idiot dentist, but I could take pictures like this every day. Nothing worth writing a book about. An extracted tooth with a granuloma attached...oh my! I am finishing the section on the basic theory behind much of the book. The book correctly describes that many severe complications can occur as the result of untreated or unchecked dental infection. This is not a shock to anyone. What is alarming is the suggestion that such complications should be a concern to people. Having a dental infection evolve into the types of severe conditions described in the book is like worrying about getting hit by a meteor or winning the lottery. Can they happen? Sure...will they happen? Very unlikely. Is it reasonable to have people extract their endodontically treated teeth on the basis of such fears? I say no. There is a great focus on the fact that bacteria can remain present in endodontically treated teeth. I think they do. It seems unlikely, given the complex structure of a tooth that we will get 100% sterility by doing root canal treatment...but...so what? Our body is under continual assault by microbes. Are there people with compromised immunity who may be unable to resist such bacterial assault? Probably, but once again, is this a sound basis on which to recommend the removal of any endodontically treated tooth or extraction of a tooth rather then attempting endodontic therapy. I don't think so. Sorry I don't have much nice to say about the book so far. The cover is a pretty purple color, but it seems to be rather alarmist in nature. Dr. K may very well be passionate about this topic, and feel that the chances of severe complications merit his opinions on endodontic care. I respect the doctor's feelings, which are deep enough to have prompted him to write this book, but I do not agree and have read nothing thus far that alters my views. I will continue to read on. T I'm impressed by your self discipline. Dartos > As noted in an earlier post, there are many photographs of ordinary things > that have captions that seem aimed at alarming the unknowing viewer. I am > just an idiot dentist, but I could take pictures like this every day. > Nothing worth writing a book about. An extracted tooth with a granuloma > attached...oh my! > I will continue to read on. > > T > I'm impressed by your self discipline. > > Dartos Don't be...a really am an idiot. T You got nothing on me. According to Dr. K, I'm stupid. ;-) D >>I'm impressed by your self discipline. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > T I thought that you were the stupid tooth carpenter. >You got nothing on me. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >> T -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Well, yeah....if you want to be technical. Today I've been more of a tooth extractor. ;-) D > I thought that you were the stupid tooth carpenter. > W_B >Well, yeah....if you want to be technical. >Today I've been more of a tooth extractor. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >> W_B Ahh yes, the tooth drawer.... (very old term, JmE was called this early in his career, It has been rumored that JmE knew Hesi-Re personally.) -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Well, yeah....if you want to be technical. > Today I've been more of a tooth extractor. That would probably make you popular with the dude.  Signature/ Amatus / > > Well, yeah....if you want to be technical. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >> W_B >> I'm impressed by your self discipline. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >T But I thought you were and idiot tooth carpenter ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > As promised (to Clinton Z...not Bill Clinton) I have been reading Dr. > Kulacz's book. i'm going to have to comment from memory. i still seem to have misplaced the book > I am not finding any thing I would say is untrue, except for the continual > suggestion that the book shows things most dentists know nothing about. > Contrary to this suggestion, ok >I find that the book describes many things that > are very ordinary. They may have a low incidence of occurrence, but they are > no mystery to any competent dentist. The basic point is that infection may not necessarily show up on x-ray, may be difficult to culture and may require active investigation to find by the dentist. This is a situation that many dentists are not equipped to handle. (this is also true for many OS's). Note the description of how frequently during surgery , the drill falls into a cavitation and the infection tunnels through the jaw. It is very misleading for you to state that any competent dentist is able locate and clean out these kinds of infections, though obviously a fraction of the patients Dr. K see's may have uncommon types of infection such as osteonecrosis, osteomyletis or NICO. The fact the author came to this group > and used terms like idiots and tooth carpenters, yet has authored a book > that seeks to mystify very ordinary things makes those earlier comments > rather confusing. Dr. K is not trying to "mystify" anything. In fact he is trying to demystify. Furthermore many dentists are unaware of how to locate and culture infection, that is not clear on x-ray. See the section on" x-raying the invisible". Many professionals also consider staph in bone samples to be "normal". The point in the book about no harm being done if a hole is drilled in the jaw that later heals, is also very telling. Most dentists do not know how to LOOK for infection. > As noted in an earlier post, there are many photographs of ordinary things > that have captions that seem aimed at alarming the unknowing viewer. I am > just an idiot dentist, but I could take pictures like this every day. > Nothing worth writing a book about. An extracted tooth with a granuloma > attached...oh my! 1) As you well know, these pictures are not featured in the main part of the book and apparently were just some picutures taken from the website thrown in the appendix as an afterthought. 2) How many holes have you found eaten into the sinus. How many cavitations have you found during practice? Keep in mind it is not so easy to photograph a hole! 3) This is very misleading of you to state. There are no biopsy slides. You are implying there are ordinary samples of bone slides depicted. No attempt to cover this issue is made whatsoever. 4) It may seem trival to show a hole eatent through the sinus or a cavitation, until you are the patient who has gone to 100 dentists, who couldn't "find" these things because they didn't show on an x-ray. > I am finishing the section on the basic theory behind much of the book. The > book correctly describes that many severe complications can occur as the > result of untreated or unchecked dental infection. This is not a shock to > anyone. What is alarming is the suggestion that such complications should be > a concern to people. I'll have to reread , but again this appears to be a misleading statement. I am sure that nowhere does Dr.K say that most Root Canals would evolve into "complex dental infections". What is a concern is what effect the RC can have on the immune system over the long term and this debate is obviously a debate wich is very broad in scope. > > As promised (to Clinton Z...not Bill Clinton) I have been reading Dr. > > Kulacz's book. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > x-ray. See the > section on" x-raying the invisible". Any experienced clinician understands the limits of radiographs, this is not news to anyone. > Many professionals also consider staph in bone samples to be "normal". > > The point in the book about no harm being done if a hole is drilled in > the jaw that later heals, is also very telling. Most dentists do not > know how to LOOK for infection. While I agree this is a point made in the book, it is not true. > > As noted in an earlier post, there are many photographs of ordinary things > > that have captions that seem aimed at alarming the unknowing viewer. I am [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > book and apparently were just some picutures taken from the website > thrown in the appendix as an afterthought. They are in the book...where is irrelevant. > 2) How many holes have you found eaten into the sinus. How many > cavitations have you found during practice? Keep in mind it is not > so easy to photograph a hole! I have seen many cases...as I said, this is not uncommon. A periapical abscess can destroy a good deal of bone...there isn't a lot of bone separating the roots of some maxillary teeth from the sinus...you do the math. > 3) This is very misleading of you to state. There are no biopsy slides. > You are implying there are ordinary samples of bone slides depicted. No > attempt to cover this issue is made whatsoever. I am not being misleading. The premise of the book and the comments made by the author on this board suggested he had found some mysterious problems that others cannot find. The photos DO show areas of pathology, my point is that for the most part they are showing common conditions. If one proposes to you they have found Atlantis and then shows you pictures of Atlantic City instead wouldn't you wonder why? > 4) It may seem trival to show a hole eatent through the sinus or a > cavitation, > until you are the patient who has gone to 100 dentists, who couldn't > "find" > these things because they didn't show on an x-ray. Show me someone who saw 100 (I know you are exagerationg for effect)...or even 10 dentists who couldn't find such a problem. > > I am finishing the section on the basic theory behind much of the book. The > > book correctly describes that many severe complications can occur as the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > obviously > a debate wich is very broad in scope. You misquote me and then say I am being misleading. Go re-read the book. It lists several pages of remote or systemic infections in a section about oral infection. Can these complications occur? Possibly, but they are rare but that is not the impression an uneducated reader would get. T > If one proposes >to you they have found Atlantis and then shows you pictures of Atlantic City >instead wouldn't you wonder why? 'cause The Donald is on the board ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com CZ has no idea what we learned in dental school. He has no idea what we have learned since dental school. He does not understand oral infections or dental materials. He has simply gone to the fringes of the profession to find someone that supports his ideas. Dr.K has not shown anything to support his accusations. There is some bad endo out there. Even with extra training and good technique it isn't 100% successful. It does not lead to bone infections that can only be found by......well....the few 'enlightened individuals'. Dartos >You misquote me and then say I am being misleading. Go >re-read the book. It [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >T > CZ has no idea what we learned in dental school. He has > no idea what we have learned since dental school. WRong!! I have a very good idea first hand from dealing with dentists and oral surgeons. > He does > not understand oral infections How would you know. You think because you spent a couple years in a classroom and did a few fillings and extractions your a guru? > or dental materials. I'm sure I know a lot more about amalgam than you. Why don't you tell me a calcualtion for the vapor pressure of amalgam or give me an upper limit on corrosion or Hg release. You can't.....why is that with all your advanced dental school training? > He has > simply gone to the fringes of the profession to find someone > that supports his ideas. More unformed drivel and misguided specualtion and as usual you've got it reversed. First my main concern is with amalgam. Second from the resulting dental infection from the material which is supposed to be stable I have witnessed FIRST HAND another entire area of incompetence (as have many other patients) >From the oral surgeon who wrote that soft bone is "not indicative of any disease" to a couple of other dental idiots, including a couple oral surgeons. We the patients (in this case dental infection patients) many times are flushed out to discover the few dentists and oral surgeons who have a clue. Think a dentist or oral surgeon won't leave large areas of infection in your jaw after an extraction and tell you to "bite me". Guess again. And if you open your uninformed loud mouth one more time I'm going to post my CT scan on the forum so you can see what mainstream denistry does. Hopefully now you'll shut up for good or at least until you know what you are talking about. >Dr.K has not shown anything to > support > his accusations. LOL, you don't even know what the accusations are because you haven't read the book! Reminds me of a story told by Feyman when he volunteered to help reveiw books for the CA eduation board. One publisher didn't go to press in time, but everyone assumed that everyone had read the book and based their opinion on what everyone else said. Eventually the non-existant book recieved a favorable rating from the school board. Your no better because your just an uninformed parrot. > There is some bad endo out there. Even with extra training > and good technique it isn't 100% successful. It does not > lead > to bone infections that can only be found > by......well....the > few 'enlightened individuals'. Complete unsubstantiated drivel. You wouldn't know how to look for infection in the jaw and you wouldn't have a clue what studies have been done to support the safety of RC..because there are none, just assurances from a few dentists who arrive at convienent conclusions by mutal agreement. Many times school just serves one purpose in my opinion from the MIT researcher who told me that Global warming was hype to the dentists on this list who proclaimed "cavitations don't exist", it just gives self confidence to idiots. Dr. K is not saying that most RC lead to severe infection .. learn to read for comprehension. Dear insulting angry crank, Dentists and oral surgeons usually try to communicate on a level that the patient can have some modicum of comprehension. Your conversations with them would have little indication of their knowledge or experience. It's probably good that you have this issue to obsess over. That saves people who might actually have contact with you in person a great deal of grief. You are so far out in left field that you don't even need to pay for parking. Respectfully, Dartos >>CZ has no idea what we learned in dental school. He has >>no idea what we have learned since dental school. > > WRong!! I have a very good idea first hand from dealing with > dentists and oral surgeons. > Dear insulting angry crank, > > Dentists and oral surgeons usually try to communicate on a > level that the patient can have some modicum of comprehension. So your failure do answer direct questions here is an example of this? What's the vapor pressure of an amalgam. Please show us your not another garden variety dolt. > Your conversations with them would have little indication of > their knowledge or experience. That sentence doesn't even make sense. > It's probably good that you have this issue to obsess over. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is. I post the scan and you pay how much? $$$$ Once again I see your statements are deviod of scientific content, with good reason. Your conscious attempt to convert your post to 100% personal attacks and systemitically avoid answering any of my well state questions has amazingly dropped the average IQ of the list even lower. Congratulations, that is not easy to do. > You are so far out in left field that you don't even need to > pay for parking. Maybe you should have become a comedian, because your no scientist and no doctor! > So your failure do answer direct questions here is an example > of this? What's the vapor pressure of an amalgam. Please show us > your not another garden variety dolt. I'm not too concerned about amalgam. I haven't used any since 1985. > Maybe you should have become a comedian, because your > no scientist and no doctor! Like Dr. K says, I'm just a stupid tooth carpenter. I'd rather be that than a raving lunatic. Dartos >> So your failure do answer direct questions here is an example >> of this? What's the vapor pressure of an amalgam. Please show us [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Dartos Clinton has smoked one too many Lewinskys. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > > So your failure do answer direct questions here is an example > > of this? What's the vapor pressure of an amalgam. Please show us [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Like Dr. K says, I'm just a stupid tooth carpenter. I'd rather be > that than a raving lunatic. Your a nasty a.shole. You represent a profession that in essence posioned me as kid. If I were a raving lunatic, it would only be at the hands of your profession and the unstable, indeed proven defective Hg products you place. I guess you don't have the moral scruples or scientific competence to understand the irony in that. People get awful ballsey when then are anyomous. Now it's also part of the increasing culture of rudeness and economically benefical disregard for patients in a sociey where scum rises more readily to the top. I submit that you are a moron, a wimp, and a lowlife all rolled into one who cannot use their real name or make any meaningful scientific statement. Like I said you do have some comedic talent so you should have sticked to clown school. Prove me wrong. (PS my amalgam was placed in 1981) > (PS my amalgam was placed in 1981) And I'm absolutely certain that you were already certifiably insane. One poorly placed amalgam could not have caused all of the problems that you profess. Want to come deer hunting with me this weekend? D > Want to come deer hunting with me this weekend? I do ! So long as I don't have to shoot anything myself, except with camera. I have no issue with hunting, just don't care to actually do the rifle or bow shooting. Signature/ Amatus / > >> (PS my amalgam was placed in 1981) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > D >> Want to come deer hunting with me this weekend? > >I do ! So long as I don't have to shoot anything myself, except with >camera. I have no issue with hunting, just don't care to actually do the >rifle or bow shooting. Then you will go hungry <hehe> I'll go in your place 8^]] -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com I hope the deer outsmart you all. > >> Want to come deer hunting with me this weekend? > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com I may not shoot one, but the deer will not outsmart me. As much damage as they do to my garden each year, I figure I am entitled to some revenge. <G> Dartos Same thinking as the terrorists. Anybody will do for revenge. Have a nice weekend, no matter. Who am I to talk. Gail > I may not shoot one, but the deer will not outsmart me. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > <G> > Dartos > > (PS my amalgam was placed in 1981) > > One poorly placed amalgam could not have caused all of the > problems that you profess. "All the problems" , is a very vague statement obviously meant to avoid any meaningful discussion. > "All the problems" , is a very vague statement obviously meant to > avoid any meaningful discussion. IRONY ALERT...IRONY ALERT!!!! T >> "All the problems" , is a very vague statement obviously meant to >> avoid any meaningful discussion. > >IRONY ALERT...IRONY ALERT!!!! > >T My Ironometer just pegged. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com I have been following this thread (and others on this forum) and it is clear from these posts that dentists do not want to know the data that has been accumulating for about for 100 years. The references are all there on Medline/Pubmed. You just have to look. But more importantly you have to be willing to open your mind. Einsten said that it was almost impossible to changed people's preconceived predjudices. This is especially true if it challenges your financial future as well as challenges your internal belief system of your chosen profession. So I understand the resistance. Instead of supplying data the dentists here choose to make jokes and personal attacks instead. It is obvious that the dentists posting on the root canal issue and the mercury issue do not understand even the basic concepts of medicine and chemistry or they would not say what they say. I bet that over half the dentists do not know how much local anesthetic (pick the ones that you use every day) can be used at one session (total), what the half life is, how much can be given at one time, and the changes in amount administered /kg. of body weight. Calling those that bring forward ideas that have been known for years and are obvious if you understand bone biology, microbiology chemistry etc. "raving lunatics" is a fine example of our profession and also shows that history repeats itself when it comes to the ability of people to think about ideas that may go against the status quo of what was taught in dental school. It was not long ago that we did not wash our hands before surgery. The earth was once considered flat and the center of our solar system. Galileo spent the last 9 years of his life for discoveries that were entirely correct yet ridiculed and not accepted by the masses and those people in power. People even question the fact that we landed on the moon. In the early 1980's two physician were laughed out of a Gasteroenterology conference for proposing that ulcers were mainly caused by an infection of H. Pylori. In fact, it was written as early as 1928 in JAMA that ulcers may have an infectious etiology. Homocysteine and inflammation as risk factors for heart disease were ignored and ridiculed for about 25 years before being accepted as fact. The list goes on and on. And as I write this I realize that dentists will not change there mind even in the face of substantial data. There is a lot we could learn to raise the standard of care and help move dentistry forward for the good of all the patients seeking our treatment. But until it benefits the dental community as a whole this will take a long long time. I wish that all the dentists would post their real name and addresses. That is where these type of forums fall short. Let's know who you are. Robert Kulacz. > I have been following this thread (and others on this forum) So then, answer my questions regarding why you take such a strong stance against endo yet your web site and published article don't provide cases that support your views or provide good evidence of the evils of endodontic care. Since you are following these threads, you probably recall my comments. I am presently reading your book, looking for those examples, but may not have gotten there yet. You keep hearkening back to the fact you have been attacked and insulted here, yet you conveniently forget who started the branding of people as idiots and incompetents. I am also curious why your book takes so much time and space describing how ignorant and uninformed other dentists are. Why not just present your message and let that do the talking? Your posts here have taken the same approach and as you correctly point out, have led to nothing but a trading of insults. I'd really like to learn more about your views. One last question. Why have you always used one path lab...the same one used by others who share your views? It would seem that the types of pathology you write about would be easily noted by any pathologist, so the use of a single lab seems unusual. T > > I have been following this thread (and others on this forum) > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > T To T (whatever your real name actually is we will never know since you are not brave enough to post it): I have used more than one lab. And I have had similar reports given on my biopsy. I have also used about 3 different labs for culture and sensitivity. All report similar findings. Have you ever done a biopsy or culture? I bet the answer is no. If no, then why not? How are you forming an opinion on this subject without reading all of the data? I would think that you would want to know about this subject since it impacts the health of the patients you are treating. I am not saying that everyone with a root canal will become ill, but some people will. Therefore if this possibility is not presented to the patient then it is lack of informed consent. A root canal tooth is is a dead infected body part in the bone of the maxilla or mandible. A person may become ill right away or some time removed from the root canal procedure depending upon factors such as the health of the patients immune system, other physical ailments, the pathogenicity of the bacteria present, as well as a host of other factors. The answer to the root canal issue causing or contributing to atypical facial pain or a variety of systemic diseases has been published extensively for almost 100 years in both the medical and dental literature. As I have suggested numerous times, look it up. It is all there. The fact is that root canal teeth remain infected whether the root canal procedure is performed by an endodontist with the highest level of clinical skill, or a dentist with average skill. The tooth is porous like a sponge due to the composition of dentin which is composed of dentin tubules. Bacteria live in these tubules, accessory canals, the main canals (which about 90% of the time still have necrotic material left in the apical 3 mm.after root canal completion). Also, the infection can travel to the surrounding bone causing chronic osteomyelitis and sometimes osteonecrosis. Some people will become ill and some will not. Many times the causation of systemic disease being linked to a root canal is missed because dentists continue to propogate the wrong assumption that root canal teeth cannot be the cause of a systemic disease or atypical facial pain. Many times the patiets with atypical facial pain are referred by a dentist, to an internest, then to a neurologist and put on medications such as neurontin. I have seen MANY of these patients and most of the time I can complete their history for them at the exam appointment because so many people have the same similar story. I do not see why you cannot see this with the abundance of information available. If you cannot find it then there is no point in continuing a discussion because you lack the knowledge of the subject. Again, I would think that you would want to know more about this instead of blindly calling my statements false. Amatus and T have never answered the questions asked regarding mercury, anesthetic, infection etc. Simple questions about dentistry/medicine that you should know without having to look up the answers. That was the point of my original post and you prove me correct. T, you called some of your collegues a**h*l*s on the thread about the problem a person had with two dentists in a row. I guess you do not think too highly of some of your peers or you would not have said that. Amatus, all you can answer is " ridiculous." Again you prove my point stated in my original post. What is so "ridiculous?" Oh well. RK >Amatus, all you can answer is " ridiculous." Again you prove my point >stated in my original post. What is so "ridiculous?" you are. >> > I have been following this thread (and others on this forum) >> [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] > >RK .. Amatus . > >Amatus, all you can answer is " ridiculous." Again you prove my point > >stated in my original post. What is so "ridiculous?" > > you are. Amatus. Your response is what I expected from you. I wonder how many people you have injured due to your ignorance? Again, when you cannot answer the question you dismiss it with comments that reinforce my view about dentists and unfortunately prove my point. > >> > I have been following this thread (and others on this forum) > >> [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > > . >Amatus, all you can answer is " ridiculous." Again you prove my point >stated in my original post. What is so "ridiculous?" Wrong! you are not worth the time to argue with, as you will never participate in a true discussion. >> >Amatus, all you can answer is " ridiculous." Again you prove my point >> >stated in my original post. What is so "ridiculous?" [quoted text clipped - 106 lines] >> >> . .. Amatus . > >Amatus, all you can answer is " ridiculous." Again you prove my point > >stated in my original post. What is so "ridiculous?" > > Wrong! you are not worth the time to argue with, as you will never > participate in a true discussion. Groupthink is really an ugly thing, ain't it! > > >Amatus, all you can answer is " ridiculous." Again you prove my point > > >stated in my original post. What is so "ridiculous?" [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Groupthink is really an ugly thing, ain't it! Amatus: I have attempted a discussion but you do not seem to want that. You have it all wrong. This is a subject to learn about if we care about our patients. If you want to blindly argue your opinion without having reviewed the research, then you should not be in this profession. You are treating human beings. The data has been around for 100 years regarding the effects of root canal teeth on systemic health in some people. With periodontal disease getting so much attention (as it should), this should not be a hard concept for a "doctor" to understand. Alfred Zamm, M.D. writes a column in a Kingson N.Y. paper every month. On Monday, September 5, 2005, Dr. Zamm wrote a column on the subject of root canals as a cause of systemic disease. Your posts never answer any questions put to you. You come into the discussion with no science to offer and are too lazy or....to look it up. You have no academic interest in this subject and out of your fear comes anger. The results of that anger are reflected in your posts. I was always happy to have discussions as I welcomed that whenever I lectured on this topic. I always told my patients that the three words that I use the most are I don't know. The more I learned the more I realized how much I do not know. You seem to already know it all so there is no point in a discussion. Your posts do not show an interest in the subject matter. Instead they reflect only an interest in keeping your mind closed on this topic. It is the layperson or the physicians that are interested as well as the unfortunate person that becomes ill from a dental procedure and is then passed from doctor to doctor. Very rarely will a dentist enter into an open discussion. Most of the time they behave like you. Until the minds of dentists are open, we cannot have a discussion. You are calling me a liar. You are calling all the patients who are currently ill liars. You are ignoring and/or discrediting all of the past research on this subject performed by top scientists. Well, you seem to know it all so you are right about a discssion being a waste of time. RK > You are calling me a liar. Either that or severely mis-guided, poorly read, and ignorant of modern research. Signature/ Amatus / > >> > >Amatus, all you can answer is " ridiculous." Again you prove my point [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > RK > > You are calling me a liar. > Either that or severely mis-guided, poorly read, and ignorant of modern > research. Yes. Severely mis-guided, poorly read, and ignorant of ALL research on this topic other than information censored and propogated from the ADA. You have summed yourself up quite correctly. RK > -- > / [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > > > RK > To T (whatever your real name actually is we will never know since you > are not brave enough to post it): I do know he is a Georgetown graduate! They are supposed to be a good academic school. Actually I think all the denitsts who post here know each other's real identities including WB. By the way, did you publish another book that was co-written with another author on how to handle extractions or root canals properly? I seem to recall that being mentioned some time ago, however I was not able to find the title of that book, if I am recalling correctly. cz > > To T (whatever your real name actually is we will never know since you > > are not brave enough to post it): [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > cz cz: I am writting another book with a dentist/physician. For now dentists could look up The Ogram technique for performing extractions. This technique is used extensively in Europe and employs up to date concepts of bone biology etc. when performing oral surgery. RK >Actually I think all the denitsts who post here know each other's real >identities including WB. That is the first sensible thing you have said in SMD. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Bacteria live in these tubules, accessory canals, > the main canals (which about 90% of the time still have necrotic > material left in the apical 3 mm.after root canal completion). Also, > the infection can travel to the surrounding bone causing chronic > osteomyelitis and sometimes osteonecrosis. > > RK Further proof that you don't know much about modern endo. We no longer instrument and fill short of the apex. We use sodium hypochlorite to digest any remaining bits of tissue and disinfect the canal system. Look at a few radiographs of good endo, and you will see lateral and accessory canal fills. Making a statement about dentinal tubules being penetrated by bacteria doesn't make much sense or any tooth with decay into the dentin or an exposed root surface would have these bacteria into the pulp. I think you're living in the past. Dartos > To T (whatever your real name actually is we will never know since you > are not brave enough to post it): I have read here that you called a few offices yelling at people and acting like an a.s...I don't need that from you or anyone else. I didn't call your office to discuss this...you brought it here, so lets continue it here. And why should it matter who I am anyway? That approach always comes up when someone is feeling a bit uncomfortable. You have put yourself into the public eye, with your web sites and publications. I have no such desire for notoriety. If you don't want to deal with anonymous people, stay off the internet. > I have used more than one lab. And I have had similar reports given on > my biopsy. I have also used about 3 different labs for culture and > sensitivity. All report similar findings. > Have you ever done a biopsy or culture? > I bet the answer is no. If no, then why not? How are you forming an > opinion on this subject without reading all of the data? Okay, I'll take your word on that, but every example in your book went through a single lab...the same lab that seems to be associated with virtually every one of these types of cases Given your proximity to other fine pathology labs, just seemed odd that your work would go through one many miles away. ...and again with the "I have done it, bet you haven't" crap...are you really that insecure that you need to believe anyone who disagrees with you is stupid? Grow up...you are acting like a 6 year old! > I would think that you would want to know about this subject since it > impacts the health of the patients you are treating. I am not saying [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > problem a person had with two dentists in a row. I guess you do not > think too highly of some of your peers or you would not have said that. You are right, I don't give my colleagues automatic respect simply because we share the same educational degree. And I also agree with you that a good number of our dental colleagues are unconcerned and uneducated about many important topics. While we agree on these points, I don't think all that much of anyone who would just assume anyone who has a dissenting view from his is stupid, greedy, or unconcerned. Since you seem unable to have any exchange without condemning others as stupid, greedy, or unconcerned, and devoted a significant portion of your book to this subject, I must add you to the list of colleagues I hold in low regard. Your continued reliance on hyperbole and insults suggests that you are lacking in confidence about your views, as you are always on the attack...assuming no one has tread the same ground as you. I have asked you some very simple questions, and you are unwilling to answer, so I will ask again. You indicate root canal therapy as a danger, yet I have looked through your web site, your published work, your book, and find no case studies that offer conclusive support for your position. Many of the examples in your book appear little different from the kind of testimonials I see on late night TV infomercials. A lot of hype but no substance. I find little or no reason to bother with someone who takes a strong stance on a subject, and then uses case studies that don't support that stance. Your dramatic photo essay about a man's fall into poor health following root canal therapy was undoubtedly very dramatic and influential for the casual viewer, but it was a botched procedure. It was done wrong. In my opinion, using that as your foremost example on the evils of endodontic care is deceptive and misleading. If you don't have an answer to my question, just ignore it and we'll both move on. I really don't want you to waste your time telling me how stupid I am yet again. I get your point. Otherwise, tell me where I can find case studies that support your theories. I'd love to see them. T > > To T (whatever your real name actually is we will never know since you > > are not brave enough to post it): [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > notoriety. If you don't want to deal with anonymous people, stay off the > internet. I have called ONE dentist, Steve from Brooklyn,(his phone number was listed here) but I certainly did not yell at him and I would like to know how I "acted like an a.s." In fact I thought that we had a pleasant conversation. Maybe the dentist that you say I contacted can shed some light here because that is not what happenned.I would be interested to find out who you are referring to and what they said my actions were. The reason that I called him is that these forums are so impersonal and sometimes the written word is not as clear in intent as the spoken word. I came on this forum and posted because somebody was looking for my contact data. That is how it started. I have been dealing with dentists that do not understand this issue for years. I stopped trying to offer information because the result was always a closed mind and denial even in the face of their former patients getting better.. This is where my perception of dentists was formed. After the post that says I called dentists on this forum and yelled and acted like a.s, it is clear that this will go nowhere but down. Good luck to you all. Godspeed. RK > > I have used more than one lab. And I have had similar reports given on > > my biopsy. I have also used about 3 different labs for culture and [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > > T > After the post that says I called dentists on this forum and yelled and > acted like a.s, it is clear that this will go nowhere but down. > > Good luck to you all. > Godspeed. > RK http://tinyurl.com/8p5ro or http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.dentistry/browse_thread/thread/8176a697de da0d79/bc8085b25d8023b4?q=called+angry+steven+mancuso&hl=en& Perhaps my words were an inappropriate characterization, as I was not the one who was contacted...for that I apologize. I'll let the person who did get the call explain their impressions...however, as the link above will show...they described your call as "A rather angry and frustrating sounding person who could only leave an insulting message". T That was almost exactly one year ago. Strange that he thought he would get a real person at that time of night,,,,,,, at a dental office. I don't recall the exact wording. I should look to see if I can find the tape. Personally, I hope NOT to get another call from Dr. K. He did not sound like the kind of person I would enjoy speaking with. More like the kind of person I would just walk away from. If he calls again, I can always make an MP3 or WMV file and post it on the net for all to hear. I had actually forgotten about that call. I must not have considered it important enough to remember. As an aside, I did an emergency crown just before lunch today. Lower cuspid,,,,,,,, under an existing RPD. I glued the broken porcelain to the PFM and sat the RPD back in place. Stuck it on with Prompt-L-Pop. I added composite under the rest seat and the distal guiding plate. Cured it and scanned it. Peeled off the metal coping of the old PFM and improved the margins. Scan the prep and click "Next"........... Design comes up which only needs light smoothening with the "digital hot spatula" tool. Mill, glaze and bond to place. No adjustments needed, and matches the other PFM's great. It just does not get any easier than that!!!!!! SM (What's a temporary?) ******************************************************** From November 2004: Was I the only one who got a telephone call on my office answering machine last night at 8:15 pm from some one claiming to be a Dr. Robert Kulatz (sp?). A rather angry and frustrating sounding person who could only leave an insulting message because I posted on SMD that cavitations are NOT real. Could he be counting on getting internet referrals for Cavitation removal? Do I attract odd-balls or something? And, Robert,,,,,,,, don't bother calling me at work or at home. If you wish to discuss cavitations, do it in the open on this forum. If you think you know so much more than 99.9% of all dentists, please educate all of us at once. *************************************** Did James EArle Jones really contribute to the book, or is it just marketing hype listing his name on the cover???? >> After the post that says I called dentists on this forum and yelled and >> acted like a.s, it is clear that this will go nowhere but down. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >T ``````````````````````` Stephen (What's a temporary?) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Did James EArle Jones really contribute to the book, or is it just >marketing hype listing his name on the cover???? The Dude went to the Dark Side. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >I stopped trying to offer information because the result was > always a closed mind and denial even in the face of their former > patients getting better.. Sorry dude but you are the one with the closed mind. And, we know all about your call to SB and the real reason why you called him. SB is a gentleman who would never insult a fly. You should take some lessons. Signature/ Amatus / <drkcz@optonline.net> wrote in message news:1131998503.539059.84770@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > >> <dracz@optonline.net> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 158 lines] >> >> T > >I stopped trying to offer information because the result was > > always a closed mind and denial even in the face of their former [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > your call to SB and the real reason why you called him. SB is a gentleman > who would never insult a fly. You should take some lessons. Let Steve SB post here in his words what was said in our conversation. This should be interesting. RK > -- > / [quoted text clipped - 166 lines] > >> > >> T > I came on this forum and posted because somebody was looking for my > contact data. That is how it started. Tooth carpenter ? I understand now, I am so sorry. I should have realized that if someone posts asking for my contact data, that it really means I should get on that forum and promptly insult every professional on that forum, even though none of them asked me to comment on anything. Sometimes I forget the rules of etiquette. Tell you what, how about opening a new page ? You give us a citation which supports your concept and we all discuss it on SMD ? One citation at a time. You might convert some of us to your side of the fence if you have substantial research behind you. All us idiot dentists could then apologize to you in public. How about a real discussion instead of you calling us names, and us throwing your own stones back at you ? Signature/ Amatus / > >> >I stopped trying to offer information because the result was [quoted text clipped - 226 lines] >> >> >> >> T >> I came on this forum and posted because somebody was looking for my >> contact data. That is how it started. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >How about a real discussion instead of you calling us names, and us throwing >your own stones back at you ? I hope that you are not holding your breath. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>>To T (whatever your real name actually is we will never know since you >>>are not brave enough to post it): [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > know how I "acted like an a.s." In fact I thought that we had a > pleasant conversation. I can confirm that my conversation was cordial and professional. I have no doubt that Dr. Kulacz is sincere in his beliefs, and while it is true that much of his effort is tied up in this issue and he therefore feels strongly about it, I certainly did not feel any personal animosity despite the fact that we don't agree in this area. I think it is too easy to demonize those we don't agree with, and perhaps a little of this has happened on both sides. My feeling is that whatever you may think about the substance of Dr. Kulacz's thesis, there is no doubt that he is a caring professional who has put his professional neck on the line to stick up for what he believes in. I think that his anger at dentistry should be viewed in the context of what he has been through professionally. Steve > Maybe the dentist that you say I contacted can shed some light here > because that is not what happenned.I would be interested to find out [quoted text clipped - 120 lines] >> >>T SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > >>>To T (whatever your real name actually is we will never know since you > >>>are not brave enough to post it): [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Steve Thank-you for clearing this up Steve. I appreciate your post. To a previous post by Tony: Yes, of course James Earl Jones wrote the forward. If you read it you would know. I will leave the other posts by other dentists alone as they again attempt to insult me. Best to all, RK > > Maybe the dentist that you say I contacted can shed some light here > > because that is not what happenned.I would be interested to find out [quoted text clipped - 126 lines] > Brooklyn, NY > 718-258-5001 > To a previous post by Tony: > Yes, of course James Earl Jones wrote the forward. If you read it you > would know. Neat ! Did he read the book with understanding which justifies his remarks ? Could you paste an excerpt from his forward here ? Perhaps, I have the wrong impression of his forward. Please post it here. Signature/ Amatus / > >> >>>To T (whatever your real name actually is we will never know since you [quoted text clipped - 208 lines] >> Brooklyn, NY >> 718-258-5001 Foreword or forward? TW > > To a previous post by Tony: > > Yes, of course James Earl Jones wrote the forward. If you read it you [quoted text clipped - 215 lines] > >> Brooklyn, NY > >> 718-258-5001 > Foreword or forward? Forehead or forlorn ? Signature/ Amatus / > Foreword or forward? > [quoted text clipped - 270 lines] >> >> Brooklyn, NY >> >> 718-258-5001 > > Foreword or forward? > > Forehead or forlorn ? I vote for "foreword" in this particular context. Any my forehead is hurting me for all this thinking!!! ;-) http://tomlevymd.com/pressrelease.htm > James Earl Jones also makes a challenge to the reader in his foreword to The > Roots of Disease: > > It is those dentists and physicians that look for connections who are most > likely to serve their patients wellŠ Open your mind, and make your own > thoughtful, informed decisions about what you may learn here. _______________ > / > "The Webby" <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >> > would know. > [cut] TW Typo alert. In article <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-2A04FF.14090114112005@news-lb-01.socal.r r.com>, > > > Foreword or forward? > > > > Forehead or forlorn ? > > I vote for "foreword" in this particular context. Any[sic] my forehead is > hurting me for all this thinking!!! ;-) As a result of my forehead aching, my fingers are not keyboarding well. TW [cut] K prolly meant foreskin. >> Foreword or forward? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>> > Yes, of course James Earl Jones wrote the forward. If you read it you >>> > would know. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Foreword or forward? > > TW The spelling Foreward and Forward are both used. Take a look at other books. Does it really matter? RK > > > To a previous post by Tony: > > > Yes, of course James Earl Jones wrote the forward. If you read it you [quoted text clipped - 222 lines] > > >> Brooklyn, NY > > >> 718-258-5001 Please ... you must be kidding. Yes, it does matter that if you mean to speak/write of a foreword, that it is not spelled "forward". These are two different words. I think you might do well to consult a dictionary to get a proper answer to this question of language. TW > > Foreword or forward? > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > > > > > Amatus [cut] > Please ... you must be kidding. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > TW The way it is written on my book is correct. Please.......no you must be kidding!!!! I think that you might look for something more interesting to post than that. What is your problem that you have to be so agressive on this issue? Any problem with the color of the book or the graphics? What about the choice of font? RK > > > Foreword or forward? > > > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > > > > [cut] > > Please ... you must be kidding. > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > RK I don't have a copy of your book so I can't answer your questions. Are you saying that on the book it is spelled "foreword" and you don't think it matters if we attempt to use the correct word in our discussion here in smd? I'm not sure what you're saying. As to whether I have anything more interesting to post ... I'm not feeling all that interesting today. But I did live with a couple of abscessed teeth for a couple of years. I have to say, that wasn't any fun. Why did I live like that? The answer to that question might interest you ... but I don't think anyone involved in this thread wants to read about it again (right now anyway). TW [cut] > > > Please ... you must be kidding. > > > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > TW You can correct anything you want. Frankly, I really do not care about that. What interests me is why you lived with two abcessed teeth for a couple of years. That could be very dangerous. If you wish to email me directly please feel free to do so. Thanks, RK > [cut] > What interests me is why you lived with two abscessed teeth for a couple > of years. That could be very dangerous. > If you wish to email me directly please feel free to do so. No clue, huh ? Signature/ Amatus / > >> > > Please ... you must be kidding. [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >> >> [cut] > > > > Please ... you must be kidding. > > > > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > You can correct anything you want. Frankly, I really do not care about > that. I understand that the point isn't really important to you at *this* point and that's okay. But it is important to disseminate information that is correct when we are given the opportunity. The words are easily confused and the way I see it is that this is a perfect opportunity to help readers who may have not remembered since their last literature class (how long ago?) that a a writer would never ask an influential person to write the "forward" to that writer's book. Small matter to a dentist ... not a small matter on a relatively entry level English Literature exam. So, enough said about that except for one other thing: in no way did I get the idea that you paid anyone to write the foreword in your book. I'm not sure where that idea came up but I read it somewhere and wanted to add my comment. Now, as far as the dental aspect of your question goes, I expected you would take notice of my comment. If you're interested in exploring that topic, I'd prefer to initiate a new thread for the purpose of its discussion. This thread is getting very long and at this point, many comments by posters to the thread risk the deep abyss. Let me know if you would like to open that discussion and I'd be willing. If not, I am perfectly comfortable with that too. Webby > What interests me is why you lived with two abcessed teeth for a couple > of years. That could be very dangerous. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > > [cut] > > > > > Please ... you must be kidding. > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > Webby First, my book has foreword spelled as foreward. Check www.amazon.com. I thought that you were only kidding about this before and making a joke.. I guess I was wrong. As far as James Earl Jones writing the Foreward (foreword, forword, Forward, Four letter word etc.), it was he who started me on this journey and it is he who wanted to contribute. Anyway, what interests me is not a typo on this particular forum but why you left infected teeth go untreated for a couple of years. I would like to hear your story. RK > > What interests me is why you lived with two abcessed teeth for a couple > > of years. That could be very dangerous. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > > > > [cut] [cut] Dr. Kulaccz, I do think that you have some awareness of who *"I"* am. Because of this awareness, I am awaiting your words in reply to my words. Who is cz? I don't know who cz is ..., but I can't help but wonder why you, drkulacz, has seemingly no idea about who The Webby of smd might be. Can you explain this to us? Webby, aka TW and a long list of "others identities since 1994 > [cut] > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Webby, aka TW and a long list of "others identities since 1994 Call me an idiot. Unless you are the webmaster then I do not know who you are. I do not usually go to these sights to view or to post and I do not know 1/4 of the internet abbreviation and associated jargon. I can't even cut and paste!! So call me an idiot. So there you have it. I cannot explain what I do not know. R. Kulacz > Call me an idiot. The temptation, oh ! Sorry, just having fun. Signature/ Amatus / > >> > > > > In article [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > R. Kulacz > > Call me an idiot. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Amatus My kids are fraternal twin girls. They will be 8 at the end of December. They usually stay up until about 9:00 PM but last noght they went to bed early because they were up late the night before. I am not going to try and explain quantum physics and the concepts of non-locality, phase conjugate adaptive resonance, the quantum hologram, zero point fields etc. Definately not a topic for here. How many people here are one in the same person? This has been a fun diversion for me. Best, RK > / > > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > > > R. Kulacz > > > Call me an idiot. > > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Best, > RK Actually, there has been rumor that there is only one of us here... all of us are only one "real person" ... something about the army of 15 I think. Anyway, I suppose with your arrival, there is one more of us unless you are multiple people. I'm just joking with you. How many people are more than one isn't nearly as important as asking how many people lurk. We can guess about how many posters there are but it's anybody's guess how many lurk. Cloning in cyberspace is a *big* deal (the * means with emphasis added) Webby > > / > > > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > > > > > R. Kulacz In article <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-B888E4.06543515112005@news-lb-01.socal.r r.com>, [cut] > We can guess about > how many posters there are but it's anybody's guess how many lurk. > > Cloning in cyberspace is a *big* deal (the * means with emphasis added) > > Webby Here's a philosophy question for smd: If lurkers are cloned would anyone know or care? Webby ;-) [cut] > Here's a philosophy question for smd: If lurkers are cloned would > anyone know or care? I would care I would care I would care I would care I would care Signature/ Amatus / > In article > <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-B888E4.06543515112005@news-lb-01.socal.r [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > [cut] > > Here's a philosophy question for smd: If lurkers are cloned would > > anyone know or care? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I would care Wow! My next scientific question was going to be: is it possible for cyberlurkers and cyberlurkerclones to know or care? Webby > / > "The Webby" <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > > > [cut] > Wow! My next scientific question was going to be: is it possible for > cyberlurkers and cyberlurkerclones to know or care? > > Webby WEknowWEcareWEknowWEcareWEknowWEcareWEknowWEcareWEknowWEcareWEknowWEcare Cap't "O" > > Wow! My next scientific question was going to be: is it possible for > > cyberlurkers and cyberlurkerclones to know or care? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Cap't "O" Are we going to be able to keep this thing quiet???????? This might alarm a whole bunch of *people*!!! TW >Here's a philosophy question for smd: If lurkers are cloned would >anyone know or care? > >Webby ;-) I'm sorry what was the question again ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > >Here's a philosophy question for smd: If lurkers are cloned would > >anyone know or care? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com There it is ... we have scientific proof that we are all ... what exactly are we? Webby >> >Here's a philosophy question for smd: If lurkers are cloned would >> >anyone know or care? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> W_B >There it is ... we have scientific proof that we are all ... what >exactly are we? > >Webby CyberPunks ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > >> >Here's a philosophy question for smd: If lurkers are cloned would > >> >anyone know or care? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Oh yeah. Punky. TW >> >There it is ... we have scientific proof that we are all ... what >> >exactly are we? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> W_B >Oh yeah. Punky. > >TW Brewster ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > >> >There it is ... we have scientific proof that we are all ... what > >> >exactly are we? [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Wow, you do have a good memory for trivia! But ... I think we're just usenet junkie punks or punky usenet junkies. How's that? TW >> >> >There it is ... we have scientific proof that we are all ... what >> >> >exactly are we? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >TW I prefer the latter, or is that latte ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com |
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