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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / November 2005The pain scale of 1-10
I cut this section from the thread: Two bad dentists in a row...is this normal?" I think the topic deserves its own thread. My comments follow Sue's. In article <1131131857.620794.54060@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, "Sue" <chrlie699@yahoo.com> wrote: > It was at that moment that I knew this scale would never really pertain > > to me. Why? There simply isn't any way that the difference between my > > "worst pain experience" (intensity, how long the pain lasted without > relief, and other psychological impacts) and "no pain" is the distance > between 1 and 10. > > I can understand that the use of this scale is a good tool for many > people complaining of pain (acute or chronic). But someone needs to > devise another scale for people who *believe* the use of that scale is > useless for them given their experiences with pain. > > Reply. > > I think the scale is pertaining to physical pain only. Psychologists > have scales to measure emotional pain... is this what you are talking > about? > > What kind of scale do you propose? If this is a sensitive subject, I > apologize if my questions come across as rude. > > I am not quite certain as to what you are talking about (how serious > you are about this). > > Thanks, > > Sue How can it be possible to ask a human being to assess "physical pain only"? Thank you for asking if this is a sensitive subject (to discuss). I have no problem discussing this subject. If I do, I shouldn't have brought it up in public. No apology needed. If you would respond to my question (first line of post), I can go forward in addressing the rest of your post. Webby "How can it be possible to ask a human being to assess "physical pain only"?" EASY. "Please assess the physical pain you are feeling at this moment." OK to be serious. It is funny that you are asking this question because I was at physical therapy this a.m. I had to answer this question too. Today I answered "3" as I had a cortisone shot about1 week ago and it has helped the pain tremendously! ************************************************************ Webby, when I have physical pain it is not always tied in with emotional pain. When the pain is of a chronic nature and it interferes wiht my sleep, my ability to concentrate/think, or prevent some from doing normal activities, I can get depressed or crabby. However if I know that the pain is self-limiting is does not affect me emotionally. (At least I don't think it does... if it does it is on a subconscious level). HOWEVER, when I have emotional pain that is "bad" enough, I will feel physical pain with as well: in my chest (heart), my gut (nausea). Even so... the pain that is physical is still physical in nature. I can differentiate the physical pain that I feel from my emotional thoughts. Does this make sense? -Sue sounds like she has alot of problems..she sounds like the type that gets upset very easily Getting upset does not necessarily cause pain nor does stress. It does not seem logical to not know the cause of pain that happens more than just occasionally. This may not pertain to dental subjects, but it has raised curiosity (at least to me) why Sue needs therapy for pain? Do not wish to probe so this can go unanswered if that is your wish, Sue. Gail > sounds like she has alot of problems..she sounds like the type that > gets upset very easily > Getting upset does not necessarily cause pain nor does stress. It does > not seem logical to not know the cause of pain that happens more than just [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > sounds like she has alot of problems..she sounds like the type that > > gets upset very easily I take responsibility for encouraging this thread. Maybe it was a mistake; I don't know yet. I took my cue from this: ____________ "Re: Two bad dentists in a row...is this normal?" In article <1131072295.048040.73910@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, "letsconnect" <letsconnect@myway.com> wrote: > Sue wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Certainly, I had nightmares for many years and had to throw up when I > saw "Marathon Man". Very close to the bone. _____________ Dartos contributed a very insightful reply post to that thread and I think the reply deserves to be posted into this thread as well. (Hint, hint, Dartos.) The section pasted above also reveals why I captured the idea of the scale of 1-10 as a beginning point for discussion about assessing the degree of pain perceived by the patient. This is just a starting point. Shall we continue to encourage the discussion? Webby > sounds like she has alot of problems..she sounds like the type that > gets upset very easily If you're going to comment about another post, please include some reference to that post. Otherwise, your comments *about* another post are quite useless. Webby You are right, Webby, I sometimes write too hastily and do not consider all aspects. Gail "The Webby" <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-1DC6EF.08335605112005@news-lb-01.socal.r r.com... > > sounds like she has alot of problems..she sounds like the type that > > gets upset very easily [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Webby Again, too hastily written. I see you were not referring to me. Gail > You are right, Webby, I sometimes write too hastily and do not consider all > aspects. > > Gail > > "The Webby" <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-1DC6EF.08335605112005@news-lb-01.socal.r > r.com... > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > > > Webby > Again, too hastily written. I see you were not referring to me. > Gail It's okay. No need to worry. Webby > > You are right, Webby, I sometimes write too hastily and do not consider > all [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > > > > > Webby Someone asked (Gail I think) why I am going to PT. No biggy. I have a rotator cuff that needs attention. Impingement tendonitis. Has been aching me for months (actually ~2 yrs) .. was getting much worse; starting to lose sleep and I was starting to get really crabby. I also could not do anything on the volleyball court. My right arm was useless. Could not do (easily or at all) do some normal stuff (start lawn mower, reach overhead, lift groceries with right arm, etc.) Good news is I can strengthn my rotator cuff and I should be able to resume VB (I hope). For now the doc says no. RE; Pain. Emotional pain is much worse than physical pain (for me). Does anyone else have this same view? I think it can be dificult to differentiate at times though...as chronic pain can lead to emotional pain. -Sue A large topic for anyone to tackle, physical pain and/or emotional pain. Though most of us have experienced a little or a lot of both, when it interferes with every day living or activities, they become problems that can extend to depression. Also depends on how important the physical or emotional pain becomes. Having an arm being useless (if temporary, I would hope) is still of concern because we really do not know the ultimate outcome. No one ever asks us to rate a toothache on a scale of 1-10, but any pain is worrysome, because it signals a serious problem. Even that can throw a person into a depression. But for the events of everyday life, whatever is bothering us., physical or mental, we tend to judge the present condition as the worst of the two. We accept the physical because the doctor is usually treating us and are getting the best care hopefully, there is far less competent help for emotional. So I would say that is worse. But nothing is written in stone, as someone said, until you have walked a mile in someone's shoes, no one can feel another's pain I don't think this post makes much sense, but if we had to rate life in general, emotionally and physically, if anyone can say 10, they are very fortunate. I hope you feel better shortly, and lately I have come to wonder not only what is causing the pain, but also what caused the condition causing the physical or emotional pain. That presents a challenge as to correct any condition, it becomes important to know what caused the condition, and even if it cannot be corrected, understanding helps. Don't try to make sense of this, there may not be any. No one has the whole story, particularly me. but I felt an attempt should be made. Gail . > Someone asked (Gail I think) why I am going to PT. No biggy. I have > a rotator cuff that needs attention. Impingement tendonitis. Has been [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > -Sue people have different threashold that will trigger "pain" or "anger" ...we all have seen patients like that. It's not their fault. Just that their life experience and their brain is wired to overreact to diff stimuli. You will see certain people who always gets into arguments in medical/dental offices and constantly changing doctors. Some have mental issues , some just have emotional issues. Not something that we dentists can fix. All we can do is do our best and if patients is still not happy, that patient has rights to find diff doctor. we are not in business of baby-sitting. > people have different threashold that will trigger "pain" or "anger" > ...we all have seen patients like that. It's not their fault. Just [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > patients is still not happy, that patient has rights to find diff > doctor. we are not in business of baby-sitting. I don't really understand what you're telling us, USC95. This Subject is about communicating pain between two people: the one with the pain and the one who is providing care related to the pain. If you, USC95, find yourself in tremendous (physical) pain tonight and someone asks you "how bad is your pain?", what can you say that is likely to help the person asking understand how much this pain is troubling you? BTW, so far, the thread hasn't touched upon the signs of pain that a professional can detect by interviewing and examining the patient. Webby my response was to "unhappy customer" who started original thread. I think this is a good thread. At least humans, if they are not in a coma, anesthetised or too debilitated can communicate pain level. The scale from 1 to 10 is not meant to judge a person's pain level against a standard scale.. it is meant to judge an individual's pain against their OWN pain scale. The question is always .. on a scale from 1 to 10, 10 being the worst pain YOU have ever experienced... yadda yadda I think it is a decent measure. This is just ONE measure. Most physicians will then ask all kinds of questions as well. How long have you had it, is it intermittent or constant, is it stabbing, burning, dull, achy, getting worse, getting better, etc etc etc. *************************************************************** Try to determine the pain level on animals. VERY difiicult to do. One of our PhDs actually tried to do an internal study to determine if we were properly medicating dogs post sugically (for pain). We used measures that included activity levels, appetite, daily habits.. it was really involved, time consuming and difficult because there were no objectives measures. Blinding was impossible. Videotapes prior to surgery and after were reviewed by several animal care technicians.etc. Dogs seem so resilient. Not too much slows them down... unless they are in grave pain.. then you may notice some changes in behavior. And the sad thing is, they cannot communicate their pain. ********************* Anyway Webby, take care. (I sense you are experiencing some sort of pain?) Sometimes it helps if you can distract yourself from the pain... at least for little periods of time. Do not turn to self medicating with alcohol, drugs etc. I just mean finding something that you really love to do and trying to fit that into your life once and awhile (when you have time). Good luck, -Sue If the guy is really in that much pain, and they patient seems to be of good character, why not just give him a prescription for some painkillers, or some morphine? > I think this is a good thread. At least humans, if they are not in a > coma, anesthetised or too debilitated can communicate pain level. The [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > Good luck, > -Sue If the guy is really in that much pain, and they patient seems to be of good character, why not just give him a prescription for some painkillers, or some morphine? > I think this is a good thread. At least humans, if they are not in a > coma, anesthetised or too debilitated can communicate pain level. The [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > Good luck, > -Sue If the guy is really in that much pain, and they patient seems to be of good character, why not just give him a prescription for some painkillers, or some morphine? > I think this is a good thread. At least humans, if they are not in a > coma, anesthetised or too debilitated can communicate pain level. The [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > Good luck, > -Sue > my response was to "unhappy customer" who started original thread. You are posting to the thread with the subject line: "The pain scale of 1-10". "unhappy customer" did not start this thread. You seem confused about the way it works around here. Webby Well with my pain if I got over a 7 it puts me in a hospital position with my dr's or disgusting tests depending on the location of the pain and they type of pain. UM MOM Susan >> people have different threashold that will trigger "pain" or "anger" >> ...we all have seen patients like that. It's not their fault. Just [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Webby |
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