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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / November 2005

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Dr. Kulancz

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Dartos - 31 Oct 2005 20:23 GMT
   

I recieved an e-mail from Dr. Kulancz today.  In it, he clears up
a few areas of controversy.

He is no longer in clinical practice stating that his production
did not pay his overhead.

He does not place implants anymore (and would not even if active)

He is no longer a member of IAOMT.

He has always been a critic of cavitat usage.  This issue 'cost me a lot
of referrals'.

He did not state whether he was an oral surgeon, nor whose theories
about immunology and dental disease he was influenced by.  The 'focal
infection' theory is mentioned in some of the web pages he is on.  It
would be interesting to hear more detail of his perspective.

I've tried to attach the whole letter, but I'm not sure if it will
come through.

Dartos
Tony Bad - 31 Oct 2005 20:39 GMT
Web Mail MessageHe is surprisingly cordial in this exchange. Too bad that
isn't how this whole thing got started and instead of learning that nobody
likes to be branded an idiot we may have actually excahnged some meaningful
information.

T

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I recieved an e-mail from Dr. Kulancz today.  In it, he clears up
a few areas of controversy.

He is no longer in clinical practice stating that his production
did not pay his overhead.

He does not place implants anymore (and would not even if active)

He is no longer a member of IAOMT.

He has always been a critic of cavitat usage.  This issue 'cost me a lot
of referrals'.

He did not state whether he was an oral surgeon, nor whose theories
about immunology and dental disease he was influenced by.  The 'focal
infection' theory is mentioned in some of the web pages he is on.  It
would be interesting to hear more detail of his perspective.

I've tried to attach the whole letter, but I'm not sure if it will
come through.

Dartos
somebody - 31 Oct 2005 20:53 GMT
Thanks Dartos.

Most intelligent human beings understand that most people are more
receptive to respectful dialog than to attempts at belittlement and
sarcasm.

Oh yes, and I know there is Joel.  We all know that when Joel is joking
around, he really does not care to get ANY point across.  He does not
care if the other party os receptive or not. Rather, he is just having
fun.

However, if some of these people like Clinton, Dr. Kulacz, Chuck and
Lolly are serious in their "mission" and making themselves "heard" then
perhaps calling dentists "idiots,"  using sarcasm, jokes, and
exaggerations to make their "very serious" point(s) does not play well
to their advantage.

JMHO,

Sue
somebody - 31 Oct 2005 20:58 GMT
Hmmm... but then again, perhaps if Dr Kulacz had NOT called you guys
"idiots," you would have never even tried to contact him.

I may stand corrected. :-)

-Sue
Dartos - 31 Oct 2005 22:29 GMT
For the record:

I didn't try to contact him.

He contacted me and stated that he was unable to post
directly to smd.

At this point, I believe he believes what he is saying to be true.
I don't believe there is credible evidence to accept his beliefs
as fact.

I have seen one patient pursue cavitation treatment trying to relieve
trigeminal neuralgia.  No pain relief.  Just relieved of some of his
money.

I suspect that a lot of what is seen as cavitations or NICO are indeed
neuralgias.  The neuralgia pain appeared.  Some dentist somewhere tried
to relieve the pain by doing a couple of root canals.  An endodontist
tried to do an apico since the root canals didn't relieve the pain.
Finally the teeth were extracted but the pain remained.  The patient
gives the history of bad root canals and gets NICO treatment which is
not effective in correcting the neuralgia either.  Big surprise.

Dartos

> Hmmm... but then again, perhaps if Dr Kulacz had NOT called you guys
> "idiots," you would have never even tried to contact him.
>
> I may stand corrected. :-)
>
> -Sue
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 31 Oct 2005 22:47 GMT
> For the record:
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Dartos

    In fact, my mother had a somewhat atypical facial pain.  Eventually I
did endo on one of her upper laterals, with no relief.
    I am sympathetic to the plight of some of these chronic facial pain
patients.  Even within the interdisciplinary facial pain clinic at NYU
it took a long time to conclude that this was a trigeminal neuralgia.  I
was somewhat dubious about the diagnosis, but accepted it as it
responded to tegretol.  Not all of these cases present like in the
textbook, and they can be difficult management problems even when you
hit them on the head.
    IMO looking for the magic bullet that is responsible for this
constellation of symptoms has the potential for great damage.

Steve

>> Hmmm... but then again, perhaps if Dr Kulacz had NOT called you guys
>> "idiots," you would have never even tried to contact him.
>>
>> I may stand corrected. :-)
>>
>> -Sue

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Dartos - 31 Oct 2005 23:13 GMT
At what point along the nerve pathway does the pain originate?  I wonder
if some surgical intervention (that just happened to be in the right
place by accident?) might change the dynamics of the neuralgia?

This would get catagorized as a successful NICO surgery, when it was
probably blind, dumb luck.

Where did I put my divining rod?

Dartos

>     In fact, my mother had a somewhat atypical facial pain.  Eventually
> I did endo on one of her upper laterals, with no relief.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Steve
W_B - 31 Oct 2005 23:22 GMT
>At what point along the nerve pathway does the pain originate?  I wonder
>if some surgical intervention (that just happened to be in the right
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Dartos

I think it's right next to my rose-colored glasses.

>>     In fact, my mother had a somewhat atypical facial pain.  Eventually
>> I did endo on one of her upper laterals, with no relief.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>>
>> Steve

--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
somebody - 31 Oct 2005 23:25 GMT
Actually my grandmother had something called tic de la reux..(sp?) Is
this the same thing as trigeminal neuralgia?

Sometimes her face would start twitching.  I guess it was pretty
painful.  She had it for many years.. from about age 45 until her death
at age 97.

I guess the only cure was to cut "the nerve"  (sorry I do not know
which one).  She declined.  She did not want to have surgery.

-Sue
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 01 Nov 2005 00:10 GMT
> Actually my grandmother had something called tic de la reux..(sp?) Is
> this the same thing as trigeminal neuralgia?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> -Sue

    Yes, trigeminal neuralgia is the same as tic douloureux (caution:
there's a francophobe in the house) or Fothergill's Disease.

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

somebody - 01 Nov 2005 00:15 GMT
Yes, trigeminal neuralgia is the same as tic douloureux (caution:
there's a francophobe in the house) or Fothergill's Disease.

Steve

Reply.  Oh sure.  Now I have to go look that one up to see what the
heck you are talking about.

-Sue
somebody - 01 Nov 2005 00:17 GMT
trigeminal neuralgia
n.
Paroxysmal shooting pains of the facial area around one or more
branches of the trigeminal nerve, of unknown cause, but often
precipitated by touching specific areas in or about the mouth. Also
called Fothergill's disease, Fothergill's neuralgia, prosopalgia,
prosoponeuralgia, tic douloureux, trifacial neuralgia.

:-) :-)
Sue
LadyLollipop - 01 Nov 2005 00:35 GMT
> trigeminal neuralgia
> n.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> :-) :-)
> Sue

And the smiles are for?

Really Sue.

Get over yourself, and give some thought to those who actually SUFFER with
it, as in your own GRANDMOTHER!
W_B - 01 Nov 2005 16:36 GMT
>> Actually my grandmother had something called tic de la reux..(sp?) Is
>> this the same thing as trigeminal neuralgia?
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>Steve

Hey, no need to call names ;-)
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 01 Nov 2005 17:31 GMT
>>    (caution:
>>there's a francophobe in the house)
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Take out the G'RBAGE
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com

heh heh!

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

W_B - 01 Nov 2005 18:09 GMT
>>>    (caution:
>>>there's a francophobe in the house)
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Steve

BTW I do not *fear* the French, I severely dislike them <hehe>
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 01 Nov 2005 18:14 GMT
>>>>    (caution:
>>>>there's a francophobe in the house)
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Take out the G'RBAGE
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com

"Let them hate, so long as they also fear."

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

W_B - 01 Nov 2005 18:30 GMT
>> BTW I do not *fear* the French, I severely dislike them <hehe>
>> --
>>
>> W_B

>"Let them hate, so long as they also fear."
>
>Steve

Ya got me on that one.

Who ?
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 01 Nov 2005 18:41 GMT
>>>BTW I do not *fear* the French, I severely dislike them <hehe>
>>>--
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Take out the G'RBAGE
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com

    No one in particular.  There was a pro cyclist (Bob Roll, now retired
and doing commentary for the Tour de (ahem) France who used to have that
emblazoned on his helmet.

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

LadyLollipop - 01 Nov 2005 00:31 GMT
> Actually my grandmother had something called tic de la reux..(sp?) Is
> this the same thing as trigeminal neuralgia?

Did you ever consider looking something up?

Or are you too busy *not passing judgment* on others and *not belittling*?

I suggest you do that!

> Sometimes her face would start twitching.  I guess it was pretty
> painful.  She had it for many years.. from about age 45 until her death
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> -Sue
Tony Bad - 01 Nov 2005 00:42 GMT
> > Actually my grandmother had something called tic de la reux..(sp?) Is
> > this the same thing as trigeminal neuralgia?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> I suggest you do that!

...and today's dose of irony is brought to you by...who is today's sponsor??

T
somebody - 01 Nov 2005 04:32 GMT
...and today's dose of irony is brought to you by...who is today's
sponsor??

T

Hi Tony,

I would like to tell you about my wonderful grandmother.  She was  a
really neat lady whom I loved a lot.  I lived with her for a few years
while I was in my 20s. We shared a lot of stories from her growing up
in South Dakota (born in 1887!) , playing basketball on a girl's
travelling team, her work at Puritan Baking Company, her courtship with
my grandfather, marriage at 35 (pretty rare to marry that late back
then), the births of her 3 children, the death of her daughter at 6
months of age. and on and on.  We shared a lot.

In all those times, I NEVER once heard her mention pain or sufferring
from an illness known as tic doulereaux.  I did notice that her face
twitched sometimes, but she never said a word about it, so I just
thought it was a twitch.

Years after her death, this came up in conversation with my dad. He
told me about her ailment.  He said, that yes indeed she rarely
complained about the pain.

That is the way she was.  She accomplsihed a lot in her long life.  She
never sat around feeling sorry for herself.

I always admired her for her intelligence, work ethic, her dedication
to her family and her belief system; her unwavering belief in God and
all that is good in the world.

And she played piano beautifully.  :-)  She was one who always remarked
on my long fingers.. said that I inherited them from my grandfather.
In her own way, she made me feel very special.

Some poeple may think it is selfish to talk about one's family like
this.  I don't.  I think it is much better than sitting around
attacking others in anger because of one's own perceived unhappiness
and pain.  When I think of all the good things in my life, it relieves
my own chronic pain that I deal with on  a daily basis.

Little do complainers know that MANY people suffer, but they do not let
it stop them from living productive, normal lives.  They do not feel a
need to make others suffer because of their own sufferring.

My Grandma shared her wisdom in her very direct and yet always kind
manner with us grandkids.  I lloked up to her in awe, even hwen she was
ailing at 97. Her mere presence in a room always brought a sense of
peace, joy and deep respect within all of us who knew her.

As such, in her life and now in her death,  I will always remember her
with a smile and with much love.

Happy Hallo's eve.

Best,
Sue
W_B - 01 Nov 2005 16:41 GMT
>> > Actually my grandmother had something called tic de la reux..(sp?) Is
>> > this the same thing as trigeminal neuralgia?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>T

Irony in a Can.

"Just a drop will do you."

Brought to you by the makers of Troll Bait®.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 01 Nov 2005 00:08 GMT
> At what point along the nerve pathway does the pain originate?  I wonder
> if some surgical intervention (that just happened to be in the right
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Dartos

    After all these years, from what I know (this was about 30 years ago,
and I haven't done too much reading on it since she passed away), I
don't know that there's any way to know what is causing the pain, unless
you do a surgical intervention and it helps.  For instance, some of
these cases were supposed to be due to pressure on the nerve trunk from
an intracranial artery within the middle cranial fossa near the foramen
ovale.  There were some decompression surgeries done at that time; I
don't know how widespread they are today.  In any case, certainly not
all cases appear to be due to nerve trunk compression, and AFAIK the
etiology in the majority of cases is still a mystery.

Steve
Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Clinton - 31 Oct 2005 23:55 GMT
> For the record:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I don't believe there is credible evidence to accept his beliefs
> as fact.

Wrong. Did you see the recent statement on NICO by the AAE. You
are really in the backwoods on this issue.

> I have seen one patient pursue cavitation treatment trying to relieve
> trigeminal neuralgia.  No pain relief.  Just relieved of some of his
> money.
>
> I suspect that a lot of what is seen as cavitations or NICO are indeed
> neuralgias.

Based on what evidence? Heresay. I talk with patients who are
anti-alternative med whose facial pain was caused by
jaw infection and some who get some relief with surgery. Why make all
these statements when you obviously don't know and have no specialty in
this area. All it does is propagagate the status quo of  the ADA, which
isn't even the status quo anymore, now the
AEE admits NICO exist. ( By the way i never had NICO).

 The neuralgia pain appeared.  Some dentist somewhere tried
> to relieve the pain by doing a couple of root canals.  An endodontist
> tried to do an apico since the root canals didn't relieve the pain.
> Finally the teeth were extracted but the pain remained.  The patient
> gives the history of bad root canals and gets NICO treatment which is
> not effective in correcting the neuralgia either.  Big surprise.

One case where the infectin could have damaged the nerve. If this
is the only case of infection you can site you are very unfamiliar
with the topic. I don't have NICO or facial pain so I don't have
a dog in this fight, but pleasssse, even a paper put out by
NIH (I believe in the 70's) documented pain releif with extensive
debridement of polymicrobial jaw infection. NOT that many patients
with jaw infection would necessarily experience relief, for a
variety of reasons. And newflash Dartos, cavitations DO exist.
DrSteve - 01 Nov 2005 01:37 GMT
> For the record:
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Dartos

Every case like that I have seen ahs responded very well to occlusal splint
or NTI therapy.

SM
W_B - 01 Nov 2005 16:45 GMT
>> For the record:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
>SM

This sounds to me like a central pain syndrome.
Tegretol.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
LadyLollipop - 31 Oct 2005 23:29 GMT
> Thanks Dartos.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> care if the other party os receptive or not. Rather, he is just having
> fun.

Like this:

Jan Brewski and AnalSex

More Freyaology ......... Jan Drew ... ya listening?

That was making fun of this lady.

http://toxicteeth.net/forms/mainLineToday.pdf

That a SICK kind of fun!!!

> However, if some of these people like Clinton, Dr. Kulacz, Chuck and
> Lolly are serious in their "mission" and making themselves "heard" then
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Sue

Delightful adding the word *perhaps*

Your opinion in unreal, as *I* have never made jokes. Never, have I ever
exaggerated.

Being poisoned by amalgams is far from a joking matter.

But you keep LYING, Sue.

That is NOT an opinion, it is a FACT.
 
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