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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / November 2005Why dis endo?
I did a little searching on our visiting dentist. What could be the financial interest that would drive someone to be anti-endo? IMPLANTS! It turns out that Dr. K is a member of the International Congress of Oral Implantologists. He mentions the profitability of endo, but he doesn't mention that you can beat endo profits by the bucketfull with implants! All I have to do is tell every new patient with a root canal that these teeth are poison. I extract them and sell them an implant. Of course there is no reason to learn how to do a decent root canal if I can make more money selling more implants. Truth hurts, Dartos > I did a little searching on our visiting dentist. What > could be the financial interest that would drive someone [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > that you can beat endo profits by the bucketfull with > implants! Err, are you sure? This poor guy can't even afford a functioning computer: drkulacz@optonline.net wrote: > My computer has a glitch that prevents going back and > correcting typo's or editing wihout losing the entire text and other > fun things. Interesting discussion ... .with much merit. Let's hear from others ....... Joely ** >I did a little searching on our visiting dentist. What >could be the financial interest that would drive someone [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Truth hurts, >Dartos >I did a little searching on our visiting dentist. What >could be the financial interest that would drive someone [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Truth hurts, >Dartos Veddy Interesting. Good work D'Artangnan. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Wow. I cannot believe how "crooked' some dentists are. Makes me feel sick actually. -Sue Fawks, I think Dr. K will have to justify how in the world are dental implants safe when he completely knocks RCT. Afterall, think of the possibility of bone infection... screwing an anchor screw into the bone .. or pounding it in or whatever you guys do.... Sue Oh, but he's already removed all of the 'cavitations' ($$$$) so you have pristine, healthy bone. I'm sure his implant techniques are completely sterile. ;-( Dartos > Fawks, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Sue >Fawks, > >I think Dr. K will have to justify how in the world are dental implants >safe when he completely knocks RCT. Kulacz is speaking through his hat ....... And I do not believe his story about cooties either. Joel >Afterall, think of the possibility of bone infection... screwing an >anchor screw into the bone .. or pounding it in or whatever you guys >do.... > >Sue > Wow. I cannot believe how "crooked' some dentists are. > Makes me feel sick actually. -Sue Dr. Kulacz is not crooked, and has he pointed out in his other posts he does not do implants. But thanks Fawks (or Dartos), for finally admitting how profitable implants and the RC procedures REALLY are in your failed attempt to discredit. And how funny you think that pulling teeth and doing implants is such a raquet, because AHem, isn't that WHAT 99% of oral surgeons do. I sure haven't found any near me that do 'real jaw surgery'. What Dr. Kulacz DOES is oral surgery and a lot of it. Osteonecrosis surgery, Osteomyletis surgery, surgery to save teeth, to clean out infections caused by infected teeth etc. 1000's of cases, many difficult, some on celebrities. Surgery into the Sinus, Surgery with ENTS who come through the nose. The REAL surgery that dentists and oral surgeons SHOULD know how to do. He is probably one of the most skilled surgeons in the country. It is the exclusive focus of his practice. I know someone who had surgery done by Dr. Kulacz and when their stitches where removed by the local dentist, the dentist with very high standards who had NEVER given out a compliment practicaly leapt out into the waiting room and exclaimed: what superb expert stitching! An expert job! I am surprised by how deep and well done the stitching was! First class work really! Dr. Kulacz is well known by individauls in the jaw infection groups and has a very good reputation with patients, although as you may guess this whole area is filled with controversy and that controversy follows patient assessment of the Major Univerity Oral Surgery centers (most of which are quite lame and uniformed in this area, according to the assessment of Jaw infection patients). That's a FACT! (( By the way Marx NO LONGER treats osteonecrosis or osteomyletis and has not for years (if he ever did a really good job of it), so please, for the LOOVVVEE of GODDD, STOP referring people to Marx on this list!)) AS FAR as money is concerned DR. Kulacz has stated that he actually lost money some months, and as has been pointed out upteen , times, in this kind of business, if he were truly crooked ("in my opinion", I don't want to get sued by the cavitat company ) he could easily use the cavitat to boost profits. This kind of surgery evidently is time consuming, difficult and NOT profitable. Dr. Kulacz has also spent many hours on the phone and on email helping patients for FREE! And he charged LESS than other dentists/surgeons doing this specialized type of surgery! Jaw infection patients TELL ME that!!! As Joel pointed out in the other thread he has even done surgery and I understand (don't quote me if i am mistaken) greatly helped James Earl Jones who wrote the forward to his book. Again, Dr. Kulacz works with a lot of Jaw infections patients I talk with and is one of the few dentists (INCLUDING SUPPOSEDLY MAJOR ORAL SURGERY CENTERS AT UNIVERSITIES) that do this kind of work. Guess why? Undoubtedly $$$$$$. Treating patients to cure them from profitable procedures is not a money maker and is specialized hard work and with the attendent attention to medical treatment required of the doctor is something 99% of dentists and OS's will avoid like a plague! By the way the whole situation with treatment of jaw infection Is another shame and disgrace of the dental/medical industry in addition to the problems with amalgam. WE (they, I) Know you don't know what you are doing. WE KNOW! So stop trying to hide it and attack some of the few people who are really trying to help! THIS IS NOT my opinion this is the opinion of MANY jaw infections patients I have spoken with (most who have no concern with amalgam either). This is what the patients are saying. This is what the PATIENTS ARE SPEAKING!!! TAKE my word for it AS GOD IS MY WITNESS :) And Shame on you. Shame on you Fawks(or Dartos, you truly no nothing to make the baseless statements you have. And shame on the non-dental posters, who follow this baloney like the mob following the pied piper. EASY to tear down and attack, but hard to build something up and discuss the issues intelligently and investigate! Kulacz is the just opposite. In time you will see this. This is the big leagues people. Not the minor leagues, , and these dentists who rarely venture into the world of this kind of surgery and spend little time worrying about how to treat complex jaw infections and the medical implications indeed are well over their heads and making big fools of themselves. Okay, enough said. cz >>Wow. I cannot believe how "crooked' some dentists are. >>Makes me feel sick actually. -Sue [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > surgeons do. I sure haven't found any near me that do > 'real jaw surgery'. What do you mean exactly when you say you haven't found any near you that do "real jaw surgery"? How much do you really know about what oral surgeons do? Steve > What do you mean exactly when you say you haven't found any near you > that do "real jaw surgery"? > How much do you really know about what oral surgeons do? At this point I suppose I know a lot more than I should, though obviously there is a whole lot I do not know. And I have talked to many oral surgeons. The oral surgeon down the street told me he didn't want to take my case because it was too complex. He also said that he has gone near the sinus before, but evidently doesn't make a habit of it. The first Oral Surgeon i went to caused the problem on the CT you saw. Do you disagree that osteonecrosis and osteomlyetic type and other kinds of jaw infection surgery is specialized. This is the common expierence of many jaw infection patients, that local OS'S and (many univeristy OS'S) feel uncomfortable doing this kind of surgery, reading x-rays such as CT scans, and even interpreting panorexs, and genrally seem unequipped for anything but the most simple procedures. I wish I could say they found their local OS'S to be helpful, skilled and expierenced, but evidently, most aren't too expierenced in any kind of "real surgery", because many jaw infection patients i have talked to have trouble finding any local OS's to take their case, and many dentists and OS's who do attempt these kind of surgies actually end up making the patient worse apparently as a result of poor surgical technique and failure to treat with appropriate antiboitics. cz >> What do you mean exactly when you say you haven't found any near you >>that do "real jaw surgery"? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > anything > but the most simple procedures. I am not qualified to pass judgement on what a given oral surgeon would or should do regarding NICO--a condition about which there is significant disagreement about as a clinical entity. I do however feel qualified to comment on your characterization of oral surgeons as being "unequipped for anything but the most simple procedures" as total nonsense. You are free to support Dr. Kulacz if you wish; if he is able to help you, so much the better. For myself though, when a man comes onto a dental newsgroup and openly calls dentists "idiots", I should not expect a friendly reception. Steve > I wish I could say they found their local OS'S to be helpful, skilled > and expierenced, but evidently, most aren't too expierenced in any [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > cz  Signature{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Arial;}} {\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove "nospam" to reply\par } > I do however feel qualified to comment on your characterization of oral > surgeons as being "unequipped for anything but the most simple > procedures" as total nonsense. All i can say is talk to the patients in the jaw infection groups. This is not my opinion. For whatever reason it is difficult to find local surgeons who can do comprehensive surgery in cases of ON/Om and other types of jaw infection. In fact many people have to go out of state. That is an extremely common experience. Acutally it's so bad that most local OS's cannot read CT scans and in many cases even panorex's that well. > You are free to support Dr. Kulacz if you wish; if he is able to help > you, so much the better. > For myself though, when a man comes onto a dental newsgroup and openly > calls dentists "idiots", I should not expect a friendly reception. Why not apply the same standard to Joel or other posters. Also i have been put on the spot, but no one gives me any answers as to what the actual level of expertise is of local OS'S. What is the point of asking the question, to see if I don't know the answer, and then say it is nonsense if I do without explaining why? Dr. Kulacz is also very justified to be unhappy with dentists. You act like the the dental organizations are passive , but not only do they practice procedures that many jaw infection PATIENTS say are harmful, but they attack (many times with taxpayer money) just to defend the status quo. I have to tell you, that many patients I have spoken with on the web are very unhappy with the dentists and oral surgeons, even parents with kids who get jaw infections and facial pain. Comments like "the oral surgeons need to go back to school" are not uncommon even from parents. There is a real problem in this area. This is not a blanket attack on dentists either. Many or most doctors who treat in this area (and in fact in general) seem to pretty clueless. >> I do however feel qualified to comment on your characterization of oral >> surgeons as being "unequipped for anything but the most simple >> procedures" as total nonsense. > >All i can say is talk to the patients in the jaw infection groups. This >is not What are jaw infections groups? Joel >my opinion. For whatever reason it is difficult to find local surgeons >who can do [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >who >treat in this area (and in fact in general) seem to pretty clueless. >> I do however feel qualified to comment on your characterization of oral >>surgeons as being "unequipped for anything but the most simple [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > is not > my opinion. The "Scooter" Libby defense. ;-) Steve For whatever reason it is difficult to find local surgeons > who can do > comprehensive surgery in cases of ON/Om and other types of jaw [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > who > treat in this area (and in fact in general) seem to pretty clueless. Signature{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Arial;}} {\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove "nospam" to reply\par } > Why not apply the same standard to Joel or other posters. Joel has never come in here stigmatizing an entire class of professionals. I hate to give you the impression that Joel might potentially be reasonable, but he has privately told me positive things about Dr. Kulacz. Furthermore, I don't think he has ever called Kulacz an idiot, nor indeed has he denigrated Kulacz's clinical inclinations. Also i have > been > put on the spot, but no one gives me any answers as to what the actual [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > without > explaining why? If you wish to say you had a personal negative experience with one or more oral surgeons, you may well feel you have been poorly served by those particular surgeons, and I would be inclined to be sympathetic. OTOH, when you say that oral surgeons as a group do implants and extractions, but no "real" surgery, I feel you deserve the level of respect I'd have for any bigot. > Dr. Kulacz is also very justified to be unhappy with dentists. You act > like [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > who > treat in this area (and in fact in general) seem to pretty clueless. Well, I can appreciate your situation here, Clinton. If you only ask people who have had serious conditions that are attributed by their gurus (I use the term advisedly here), I can understand that the general concensus may well be one of anger and disgust. Just try to understand that this may not be the only (or even the most representative) point of view. Steve > > Why not apply the same standard to Joel or other posters. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Kulacz. Furthermore, I don't think he has ever called Kulacz an idiot, > nor indeed has he denigrated Kulacz's clinical inclinations. I would imagine that Dr. Kulacz's statments are aimed at engaging the dental community as a whole on these important issues of jaw infections and RC, not meant to attack any particular person. Evidently he must have some admiration for Joel or he wouldn't email him so much! > Also i have > > been [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > more oral surgeons, you may well feel you have been poorly served by > those particular surgeons, and I would be inclined to be sympathetic. This is the case with me and many patients especially in OM/ON. It's not that we are out to be critical of anyone but experience has dictated many of these attitudes. Keep in mind that when half a dozen local OS's seem unwilling or unable to handle a case the patient can run out of options fast. > OTOH, when you say that oral surgeons as a group do implants and > extractions, but no "real" surgery, I feel you deserve the level of > respect I'd have for any bigot. Obviously I am exaggerating to make a point, but there is a noticeable difference in comfort level and competence among surgeons (and dentists who do surgical procedures) with some of these specialized surgeries, which according to degrees you wouldn't expect to be there. Actually there is a wide gulf in ability levels. > > Dr. Kulacz is also very justified to be unhappy with dentists. You act > > like [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > gurus (I use the term advisedly here), I can understand that the general > concensus may well be one of anger and disgust. Actually it is a wide base of patients, many of whom only believe in working with doctors with the OS degree. They come from everywhere, U of Penn, Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, biological dentists and many have also seen numerous local OS's and infectuous disease doctors with unsatisfactory results. Many are from outside the US too and some are family members of sick patients (some of whom have died from these jaw infections). There is a real problem with treating some of these ON/OM type conditions in both the dental and medical communities, though obviously most people would not be affected and it is difficult to treat even in the best circumstances. So it is not really correct that these patients are misguided by a few gurus. In fact the opposite is true. Dr. Kulacz and a few other specialists have ocassionally worked with these patients and talked with these communties, who have an understanding of what Dr. Kulacz does, and the various controversies. The patient community debates and exchange information on their experiences with Univeristy OS's, Dr. Kulacz, other doctors who do a lot of these kinds of surgeries, and virtually every other type of dental professional including ENT's. Most have an appreciation and respect for what Dr. Kulacz does, but as you can imagine, this whole area is filled with controversy and hardly anyone see's eye to eye on all these issues. (And of course it is always key for the patient to educate themselves and ask questions first and foremost.) > I would imagine that Dr. Kulacz's statments are aimed at engaging the > dental community as a whole on these important issues of jaw infections > and RC, not meant to attack any particular person. Quite true--he did not attack any particular person. He merely said that he and his physician friends know that dentists are idiots. > Obviously I am exaggerating to make a point, but there is a noticeable > difference in comfort level and competence among surgeons (and dentists > who do surgical procedures) with some of these specialized > surgeries, which according to degrees you wouldn't expect to be there. > Actually there is a wide gulf in ability levels. That may or may not be true. I would never assume that all licensed lawyers, physicians, accountants are equivalent. I cannot speak to your experience--I have never to my knowledge had a patient with the clinical experiences you have had. > Actually it is a wide base of patients, many of whom only believe in > working [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > is difficult to treat even in the best > circumstances. Out of curiosity, just how wide a base of patients do you think we are talking about here? Steve > Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > > I would imagine that Dr. Kulacz's statments are aimed at engaging the > > dental community as a whole on these important issues of jaw infections > > and RC, not meant to attack any particular person. > > Quite true--he did not attack any particular person. He merely said > that he and his physician friends know that dentists are idiots. He is also a dentist! > That may or may not be true. I would never assume that all licensed > lawyers, physicians, accountants are equivalent. I cannot speak to your > experience--I have never to my knowledge had a patient with the clinical > experiences you have had. It happens all the time. > > > from these jaw infections). There is a real problem with treating some > > of these ON/OM type conditions in both the dental and medical [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Out of curiosity, just how wide a base of patients do you think we are > talking about here? Did I give the link before? Currently there are 2 active forums on Delphi. The first was founded by a Debbie who details her experience in the intro and discusses many jaw infection topics including NICO. The second was founded to take some of the emphasis off non-traditional treatments by some posters and refocus on the science. I think there are at least 20 "current posters" in both forums and many more have posted in the past. (In fact a couple of patients have died) http://forums.delphiforums.com/NICOandAPS/start (this list is not really about NICO but osteonecrosis and Osteomyletis and includes the cavitation controversy. Here you can learn more than you ever wanted to know about these issues.) http://forums.delphiforums.com/jawosteo/start (Newer forum meant to get away from the NICO discussion and focus on the science of OM/ON. Many of the same posters and topics.) >> Quite true--he did not attack any particular person. He merely said >>that he and his physician friends know that dentists are idiots. > > He is also a dentist! Yes. So? >> Out of curiosity, just how wide a base of patients do you think we are >>talking about here? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > (Newer forum meant to get away from the NICO discussion and > focus on the science of OM/ON. Many of the same posters and topics.) Thanks for the links. I was actually contacted (apparently at your behest) by a woman--probably the Debbie you refer to. I may have misinterpreted her, but I got the distinct impression that she felt perhaps the first group had been hijacked by alternative doctors and their acolytes, and that the volume was too high, and that this was the rationale behind the new forum. I believe she was trying to see if there was support for my input there. I assume there must have been some problem, as she never got back to me. The problem with this whole topic for me is that there are at least several more or less related conditions about which there is little controversy. Others, such as NICO, are controversial--for a variety of reasons. So when a particular clinical entity has fuzzy parameters--diagnostically, clinically, etiologically, it is assumed that if someone demands concrete clinical parameters that somehow there is a conspiracy to deny its existance. Unfortunately this makes life difficult for the patients who only wish to get well. Anyone familiar with the oral pathology literature will know that various bony anomolies of this nature are very well-established. There are new variants (such as bisphosphonate-induced ON) which easily put the lie to the contention that dangers of clinical intervention are being covered up. Please note that as a serious sequellum, this has emerged in just a few short years of bisphosphonate use. I should think that a significant risk of root canals for ON would similarly have quickly emerged. The fact that it has not in well over 100 years and untold millions of procedures is (IMO) neither chance, nor that the ADA has much greater powers to conspire to cover up the truth than the major pharma companies that profit from the bisphosphonates. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > > Did I give the link before? Currently there are 2 active forums on > > Delphi. > > The first was founded by a Debbie who details her experience in the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > behest) by a woman--probably the Debbie you refer to. I may have > misinterpreted her, That was not Debbie, the founder of the first group, but Susan, one of the founders of the second group. There was interest in getting doctors such as oral surgeons, dentists and patients to come on the group and discuss treatments with patients. > but I got the distinct impression that she felt > perhaps the first group had been hijacked by alternative doctors > and > their acolytes, and that the volume was too high, and that > this was the > rationale behind the new forum. Correct. There is always a tug of war between patients who wanted to only discuss accepted treatments and deal only with well recognized institutions and oral surgeons, and those who sometimes wanted to discuss alternative treatments and dentists who may do cavitation or similiar surgies (or may even do these surgeries in Mexico). There was also a problem that many dentists who were attempting to do these surgeries were making patients worse and failing to culture and support antiboitic treatments. This was actually true for oral surgeons as well. > I believe she was trying to see if > there was support for my input there. I assume there must have > been > some problem, as she never got back to me. Yes, there was an argument at that time because some of the group owners were deleting posts or content which did not conform to the groups complete non-alternative focus and it was true that some of the alternative posts had gotten out of hand. Since then that has been smoothed over. > The problem with this whole topic for me is that there are at least > several more or less related conditions about which there is little [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > is a conspiracy to deny its existance. Unfortunately this makes life > difficult for the patients who only wish to get well. This is an incredible complex issue, and apparently there are different varities of infection. Cavitations and NICO exist within this spectrum. The real problem is that a lot of people are getting sick and many times it's hard to detect the full extent of these infections on scans. These infections may not be classical presentation of acute osteonecrosis or osteomyletis for example > Anyone familiar with the oral pathology literature will know that > various bony anomolies of this nature are very well-established. There [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > that a significant risk of root canals for ON would similarly have > quickly emerged. Classical osteonecrosis as far as I understand involves massive destruction of bone. However there are polymicrobial infections which seem to get in the jaw without such a clear presentation on x-ray, perhaps causing localized necrosis as well. The infections also do definitely get into the face and cause pain. I'm not an expert on the issue but I'm sure Dr. Kulacz could describe in detail the different kinds of infection he is finding. The fact that it has not in well over 100 years and > untold millions of procedures is (IMO) neither chance, nor that the ADA > has much greater powers to conspire to cover up the truth than the major > pharma companies that profit from the bisphosphonates. Well, that may not really true for a number or reasons. Part of the reason is that infection can exist in the bone for a long time without being detected yet still dump toxins into your system. Apparently it's some kind of staph which gets into the bone. A sneaky kind or anerobic bacteria, that is not always easy to detect. Classic ON (if my understanding is correct, I'm not an expert) is more of an innate destructive process caused by the bone itself. Apparently biophosphates can cause this, but I think you are correct that it would be hard or impossible for any root canal to cause classic osteonecrosis. Dr. Kualcaz would definitely be able to explain these issues in detail. cz > What do you mean exactly when you say you haven't found any near you > that do "real jaw surgery"? > How much do you really know about what oral surgeons do? A fair question At this point I suppose I know a lot more than I should. And I have talked to many oral surgeons. The oral surgeon down the street told me he didn't want to take the case because it was too complex. He also said that he has gone near the sinus before, but evidently doesn't make a habit of it. The first Oral Surgeon i went to caused the problem on the CT you saw. Do you disagree that osteonecrosis and osteomlyetic type and other kinds of jaw infection surgery is specialized. This is the common expierence of many jaw infection patients, that local OS'S and (many univeristy OS'S) feel uncomfortable doing this kind of surgery, reading x-rays such as CT scans, and even interpreting panorexs, and genrally seem unequipped for anything but the most simple procedures. Evidently, most aren't too expierenced in any kind of "real surgery", because many people i have talked to have trouble finding any local OS's to take their case, and many dentists and OS's who do attempt these kind of surgies actually end up making the patient worse. cz >> Wow. I cannot believe how "crooked' some dentists are. >> Makes me feel sick actually. -Sue [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >finally admitting how profitable implants and the RC procedures REALLY >are in your failed attempt to discredit. About Robert Kulacz, I see him as a very sincere doctor, perhaps corret or perhaps mistaken. Who knows at this point, but he is a decent guy. Joel >And how funny you think that pulling teeth and doing implants >is such a raquet, because AHem, isn't that WHAT 99% of oral [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > >cz > I did a little searching on our visiting dentist. What > could be the financial interest that would drive someone [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > that you can beat endo profits by the bucketfull with > implants! Detective Cousteau is on the case! Wrong! But thanks again for showing us HOW YOU THINK > All I have to do is tell every new patient with a root > canal that these teeth are poison. I extract them and sell > them an implant. Congratulations! you have succintly analyzed what most Oral Surgeons do, extractions and implants, and put a few screws into a fractured jaw now and then. They don't really SEEM TO KNOW how to do real surgery? They are especially frady cats when they get near the Sinus. Why is that? I'd really like to know your thoughts on this issue Fawks. However, this does not apply to Dr. Kulacz. > Of course there is no reason to learn > how to do a decent root canal if I can make more money selling > more implants. > > Truth hurts, > Dartos Ouch! Making a Full apology when you realize YOU don't know what you are talking about hurts even more.... Clinton, You were the one who said that you enjoyed attacking (or making fun of) dentists and nondentists on this board. I think that is kind of weird to say the least. Now you are trying to build up one dentist. Is this the only dentist in the world whom you think is ethical? ... or are you just having more "fun" on these boards. Since admitedly your whole focus is makign fun of people here, you hold no credibility on this subject of Dr. Kulacz. I think you are just having more "fun." JMO, Sue > Clinton, > You were the one who said that you enjoyed attacking (or making fun of) > dentists and nondentists on this board. > > I think that is kind of weird to say the least. I don't think I used those words. It is not weird if making fun of dentists has a constructive purpose. But look how hypocritical your statement is. Have you read the posts of WB, TONY, JOEL and the other top posters. Yet you single me out! Why don't you cause JOEL's attacks on Jan wierd? Instead he's your "buddy?" > Now you are trying to build up one dentist. Is this the only dentist > in the world whom you think is ethical? There are now only about 6 regular (dental) posters. Dr. Kulacz would be say, the 7th. At that rate you could conclude, using your stilted reasoning that I believe 1/7 (100) of dentists are ethical, or about 15%. ... or are you just having more > "fun" on these boards. > > Since admitedly your whole focus is makign fun of people here, That is a flat out lie. I explained very carefully that the purpose was too educate about my dental expierence. It's also bad form to attribute statements to people without quoting the statement. > hold no credibility on this subject of Dr. Kulacz. > > I think you are just having more "fun." > > JMO, Sue, you seem like a nice enough, gal, but this issues are more serious than you can imagine and run deep. All i can say is stay tuned! >> Clinton, >> You were the one who said that you enjoyed attacking (or making fun of) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >the other top posters. Yet you single me out! Why don't you cause >JOEL's attacks on Jan wierd? Instead he's your "buddy?" I never attack Jan. >> Now you are trying to build up one dentist. Is this the only dentist >> in the world whom you think is ethical? [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >serious than you can imagine and run deep. All i can say is >stay tuned! That would rate right up there with the Greatest lie ever told. http://tinyurl.com/8pnts >>> Clinton, >>> You were the one who said that you enjoyed attacking (or making fun of) [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >>serious than you can imagine and run deep. All i can say is >>stay tuned! Clinton wrote to Sue on Oct. 30: "That is a flat out lie. I explained very carefully that the purpose was too educate about my dental expierence. It's also bad form to attribute statements to people without quoting the statement." Reply. Clinton, please cut out the slander and stop inferring that I am a lier. I directly asked you why you are here to criticize dentists in earlier conversation held and you never answered me. Reference this conversation below: 10. Clinton Oct 19, 9:53 am show options Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry From: "Clinton" Date: 19 Oct 2005 08:53:04 -0700 Local: Wed, Oct 19 2005 9:53 am Subject: Re: Some things never change somebody (Sue) wrote: Clinton, who are you trying to criticize? I must have missed that. The dentists, I'm trying to criticize the dentists! But not JUST the dentists Sue wrote: My post was supposed to be a humorous interlude... but it was meant for the Ham Radio operator's thread... Sorry, my mistake. Sue then wrote (quoting Clinton): "The dentists, I'm trying to criticize the dentists! But not JUST the dentists" Reply. Y? *********** Clinton's reply: Actually there was NO reply from Clinton. I repeat, there was NO REPLY FROM CLINTON. As such, I assumed he is just here to harrass. Can you blame me? Geesh, Sue > Clinton wrote to Sue on Oct. 30: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > am a lier. I directly asked you why you are here to criticize dentists > in earlier conversation held and you never answered me. You cut out the Slander, below was obviously a joke. Anyone who has spent any time on this lost knows that and my real motives. Don't make your ignorance and lack of familiarty with this list my problem. > Reference this conversation below: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > The dentists, I'm trying to criticize the dentists! But not > JUST the dentists It's a joke. Grow up. Your a wasting my time. >Clinton wrote to Sue on Oct. 30: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Reference this conversation below: REPLY FROM DR KULACZ: Tue, 01 Nov 2005 09:57:47 -0500 From: "Robert Kulacz" <drkulacz@optonline.net> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert Subject: Re: Fw: Dental- Forum To: "Mr Joel Eichen" <joeleichen@yahoo.com> Thank you for posting Joel. I wish it would have been posted under the topic of discussion, "Why Dis Endo" since I do not think many will read "A message from Robert." A post on the Why dis Endo trhead leading people to the thread would be helpful. But it probably does not matter anyway. Anyway, thanks for posting it . Have a nice day. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Mr Joel Eichen To: Robert Kulacz Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 6:39 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Dental- Forum 6:30am and I am back at work! But its exciting. We have a small group, five or six general dentists, two periodontists, implants and restorative under one roof. Joel Robert Kulacz <drkulacz@optonline.net> wrote: Thanks a lot Joel. I certainly apprecate it. 8:30 and still at work!! Go home and put your feet up and relax. Thanks for the compliment. We can certainly agree to disagree. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Mr Joel Eichen To: Robert Kulacz Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 8:18 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Dental- Forum Hey Bob! Sure anytime at all. I am happy to post whatever you e-mail to me ..... its no problem, in fact it is a pleasure. I may tease you a bit, but as you may have read from my posts I believe you to be very sincere in your work. That is admirable. Its ap leasure to be of assistance! Joel I will post later this evening ..... I am still closing up our shop! 8:30pm! Robert Kulacz <drkulacz@optonline.net> wrote: Joel: I hate to ask you to do this and of course you can say no. But I cannot post on dental-forum for some unknown reason anymore. All of a sudden access was denied. Could you please place this under the Why "Dis" Endo thread and not the other thread that you placed my last posting request that became a new thread. This has gotten way out of control and I really cannot beleive what it has become. Thanks, Bob. ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Kulacz To: tuthjockey@earthlink.net Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 9:58 AM Subject: Dental- Forum For some reason I am unable to post on the forum. it will not allow me and I have tried all ways to atempt to correct this situation and clarify statements made about me. So I am emailing you. 1. I am no longer in clinical practice. I simply could not afford to run my office any loinger. The overhead was greater than the production due to the nature of the people that I treated, the fees charged, the insurance companies, and the fact that the surgery is so intense at times you cannot do more than two or a maximum of 3/day/ ( I would not to be the fourth patient so I would not do it) Many peope were very ill so even perfoming sedation on these patients was stressful above the norm. 2. I do not do implants (even though I took a 1 year post graduate training in impalnts years ago( I used to do them but not anymore whenU was in practice. If I did place implants now I would have made a lot of money as was correctly stated on the forum. But I do not. There were issues about placing implants that kept me away from them until I could be sure was sure of their safety. 3. I am not a member of IAOMT. They may have me on their list and I was a member, but I have not been involved for years. 4. I was outspoken about the cavitat not being a diagnostic aid very early on when I saw it in operatrion. That issue alone cost me lots of referrals. 4. There is no motive to practice the way that I did and try and educate dentists. No dentist wanted to listen even when the peer revied papers were placed in front of them.So I ended up managing these patients surgically and working with thir physicains to help them manage the follow up. (blood work, hperbaric oxygen, antibiotic therapy etc) If you think about it there is not positive reason to do what I did except to help people that have been searching for answers to their health problems. If you are not aware of its existence than you cannot include it in a differential diagnosis. This happens all of the time in medicine and somewhat in dentistry. Eventually standard of care moves forward. I did turn away many people that practically demanded surgery when I felt that I could not help them. Most of my time was reviewing history and determing if I could help diagnose and treat a dental/jawbone relationship to systemic disease. That led me to the 10 years of research that is impossible to explain on a forum such as the dental-forum I have lectured at major pharmaceutical companies when appropiate and to countless Medial organizations. The dental groups do not want to listen to this and that is one reason why you cannot get these type of cases published in a dental journal. They should be, but they are not even considered. It also makes no sense to practice as I did. Your peers dislike you, you basically make no money unless you are a crook (and there are plenty out there that do similar procedures)., you are open to State board action run by dentists, and are wide open to lawsuits about standard of care even with extensive informed consent. It makes no sense unless you have done EXTENSIVE research and have seen the clinical result, both subjective and objective. Sice I cannot post maybe you can post this on the thread. Why dis Endo ( I think that is the title of the thread) I sometimes wish that I never researced this and learned about ot. Life would have been a LOT easier as it uswed to be. But it is our resposibility as professionals to treat patients ans we would ourselves and our loved ones and be open to data. It is also important to educate dentist about basic medicine. Thank you. Robert Kulacz, D.D.S. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >10. Clinton Oct 19, 9:53 am show options > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >Geesh, >Sue Thank you for posting Joel. I wish it would have been posted under the topic of discussion, "Why Dis Endo" since I do not think many will read "A message from Robert." A post on the Why dis Endo trhead leading people to the thread would be helpful. But it probably does not matter anyway. Anyway, thanks for posting it . Have a nice day. Bob Comment to Joel. Thanks joel. Thank you for going out of your way to help relieve some misunderstandings in communications. I appreciate it. BTW, I understand your frustrations with "the unamed" now. Although I cannot condone direct personal attacks on anyone, I can honestly understand how you may have felt "driven" to it. Sincerely, -Sue > Congratulations! you have succintly analyzed what most Oral > Surgeons do, extractions and implants, and put a few screws > into a fractured jaw now and then. They don't really > SEEM TO KNOW how to do real surgery? They are especially frady cats > when they get near the Sinus. Why is that? Where do you get this stuff from? This is simply untrue. Suregons, like everyone else, do common things more often, but the concept they are "frady cats when they get near the sinus" is absurd. > > Congratulations! you have succintly analyzed what most Oral > > Surgeons do, extractions and implants, and put a few screws [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > everyone else, do common things more often, but the concept they are "frady > cats when they get near the sinus" is absurd. That's what my local OS said, in essence, he's gone up in the sinus before, so theoretically he could do it. If he had too. There are also issues about how to apply grafts, how to decortize the bone, how to look for infection not seen on the x-ray, how not to disturb the sinus cilia or scar the sinus, how not to harm the nerve and so on. The type of surgery Dr. Kulacz does is very specialized and demanding. Don't believe me? One surgeon who has done 100's of similar surgies has left a trail or worsened patients behind. One dentist in Washington told me that only a handful of surgeons were qualified to do that kind of surgery. And It seems to me that most OS's really do operate in "safe zones" most of the time. They just don't seem to have the reps to handle the really difficult cases with confidence and will try to refer to other OS's or a major University. This is just what I found from personal experience. > The type of > surgery Dr. Kulacz does is very specialized and demanding. Don't > believe me? One surgeon who has done 100's of similar surgies has left > a trail or worsened patients behind. One dentist in Washington told me > that only a handful of surgeons were qualified to do that kind of > surgery. Maybe you can shed some light on this...but all the info I have come across indicate Dr. K is a GP, not a surgeon. > And It seems to me that most OS's really do operate in "safe zones" > most of the time. They just don't seem to have the reps to handle the > really difficult cases with confidence and will try to refer to other > OS's or > a major University. This is just what I found from personal experience. My experiences have been different. I agree that there are some surgeons who have a different comfort level with certain procedures than others, just as there are some GP's who do all their own endo, while others refer it all out. (maybe endo was a bad reference), but all are trained to handle the type of surgery being discussed. T > Maybe you can shed some light on this...but all the info I have come across > indicate Dr. K is a GP, not a surgeon. No, he's really a surgeon. Evidently with a DDS you can perform dental surgery so there is technically no difference between someone with a DDS and an OS degree. He did about six surgeries a week and that is all he did. No implants, no root canals, maybe some composite fillings. Many feel he is one of the best surgeons in the country. His area of expertise is osteonecrosis, and osteomyletis and saving infected teeth. He also helps treat this patients by sending cultures to the labs and consulting with doctors on such things such as IV antiboitics, everything a hosptial oral surgeon would do. This is also why he see's the results of a lot of bad dental work, because he get's the difficult cases. He's not kidding when he said he has a box-full of cases. > My experiences have been different. I agree that there are some surgeons who > have a different comfort level with certain procedures than others, just as > there are some GP's who do all their own endo, while others refer it all > out. (maybe endo was a bad reference), but all are trained to handle the > type of surgery being discussed. I suppose theoretically that may be true, but in practice it really requires expierence to do effectively without harming the patient. (this is what patients are reporting). Also there is controversy in this specialized area as to what the best techniques are. Dr. Kulacz is a pioneer in applying a kind of orthapedic surgery technique to the jaw which is aimed at locating and finding all infection similar to how an orthapedic surgeon might clean infection out of a leg bone. He also evidently has developed special techniques to promote bone healing, prevent any additional spread of infection and apply antiobiotic grafts modeled on techniques used in orthapedic surgery. I'm not saying that there aren't other exceptional surgeons out there or that he has any cure all's but he is definitely out there on the cutting edge of his field. > No, he's really a surgeon. Evidently with a DDS you can perform dental > surgery so there is technically no difference between someone with a > DDS and > an OS degree. Wow, this is scary... Can you teach yourself oral surgery? I was always under the impression that this was post-grad education. Well, any of the dentists I know who wanted to become maxillofacial surgeons went back to dental school for it. > > No, he's really a surgeon. Evidently with a DDS you can perform dental > > surgery so there is technically no difference between someone with a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the dentists I know who wanted to become maxillofacial surgeons went > back to dental school for it. As I wrote in another post, Dr. K's published profile states his "practice is limited to oral surgery"...I am not sure if you can do that unless you have actual specialty training. Not sure though. T >> > No, he's really a surgeon. Evidently with a DDS you can perform dental >> > surgery so there is technically no difference between someone with a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >T In some states you can limit your practice without a certificate or degree. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>No, he's really a surgeon. Evidently with a DDS you can perform dental >>surgery so there is technically no difference between someone with a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the dentists I know who wanted to become maxillofacial surgeons went > back to dental school for it. Any dentist may legally perform treatment within any of the dental specialties. However, if anything goes wrong, the standard of care is determined by what a specialist in the specific field would have done. Anyone practicing as an oral/maxillofacial surgeon must be eligible to take the board exams of the American Association of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons. http://www.aaoms.org/ This requires successful completion of a postgraduate or graduate training program. Most of these are 3 or 4 years long. Steve Signature{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Arial;}} {\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove "nospam" to reply\par } . > Any dentist may legally perform treatment within any of the dental > specialties. However, if anything goes wrong, the standard of care is > determined by what a specialist in the specific field would have done. Yes, and to answer Tony's question obviously I am not an expert on dental rules and regulations , nor do I have in depth knowledge about Dr. Kulacz's training or even the totality of his practice. All information I give you is well publicized, and well known by many people. > Anyone practicing as an oral/maxillofacial surgeon must be eligible to > take the board exams of the American Association of Oral and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Steve Well I know a dentist near me who ocassionally does oral surgery. I guess in NY the above could be read, anyone practicing AS an oral/maxillofacial surgeon. Well does a dentist who uses the cavitat qualify? I guess so because they are not practicing as an oral surgeon. Interesting. > > No, he's really a surgeon. Evidently with a DDS you can perform dental > > surgery so there is technically no difference between someone with a > > DDS and > > an OS degree. > > Wow, this is scary... Uh boy, it's not "scary" >Can you teach yourself oral surgery? I was always > under the impression that this was post-grad education. This is not about labels, titles and associations and degrees. Everything in life doesn't come down to that. And yes, you can teach yourself just about anything. It's called reading and real life experience. Going to a certain school doesn't teach you something that can't be learned elsewhere. You have to look at every situation individualy, and yes apparently the general training in dental school and a DDS is quite sufficent to do surgery and dentists are allowed to do it. Many dentist now do do some basic surgery in practice, especially "biological dentists". And I guess if you think about it all dentists have to have basic training in this area. Suppose complications set in during an extraction? How could they clean the surrounding bone. How would they know how to make a referal based on clinically fundings without some training? How would they know to avoid nerves and arteries during injections and certain dental procedures or to avoid puncturing the sinus during an extraction? Well, any of > the dentists I know who wanted to become maxillofacial surgeons went > back to dental school for it. Ever had a dentist do a difficult extraction and clean infected bone? Guess what? they just did surgery. What about an endonist with an extensive legion at the tip of the tooth? Shouldn't an Oral surgeon really be working on that, especially if infection extends into the bone and up to the sinus? By the way did you know that now Plastic surgeons want to do Oral surgery? Please write a letter to Congress! You know all the Hubub about the cavitat? Guess who does a lot of the cavitational surgery? Dentists. Some mess it up (which is another story) and don't know how to do cultures and use antibiotics. And here, you have unwittingly put your finger on the real problem. Traditionally dentists make quite a good living just working on the tooth with fillings and RC. They have no NEED to venture beyond the tooth. It's not that they cannot. But enter the whole cavitation scene. Now dentists are interested in more than just the tooth. For the first time they have a reason to be curios about the jaw. You are right that OS's do have additional training, however at a miniumum Dr. Kulacz did take additional courses, such as for installing implants, which apparently focused his interest on the jaw. (I have no idea what the actual educational development of Dr. Kulacz was nor do I want to speculate). In any case experience is the best teacher, so someone who does the surgery every day in practice for a few years, maybe starting out with simple cases will have more expertise than you could ever learn in a lifetime in school. Similary I wouldn't want to have an OS, whose only training was in school. Innate talent, the willingness to learn and above all actual real life experience dictate true competency. I'll go with someone who has successfully done a certain type of surgery 1000's of times over someone inexperienced but with an OS degree ANY DAY. > > > No, he's really a surgeon. Evidently with a DDS you can perform dental > > > surgery so there is technically no difference between someone with a [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > the general training in dental school and a DDS is quite sufficent to > do surgery and dentists are allowed to do it. Let me see if I get this. Dr. K, not an oral surgeon, but more capable than most who are...this on the basis of a regular old dental school education...which has somehow left the rest of us, with the same education ( and in many cases, more years of clinical experience), idiots and tooth carpenters. You might want to pass your life lessons on to Dr. Kulacz, who came here making offensive generalizations about an entire profession that seem counter to your philospophy of "look(ing) at every situation individualy". T p.s. I answered one of my own earlier questions: From the NY State Office of Professions: http://www.op.nysed.gov/part29.htm Claiming professional superiority or special professional abilities, attainments, methods or resources, except that a practitioner who has completed a program of specialty training approved by the Board of Regents in a specialty recognized as such by the Board of Regents, or who can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the department the completion of the substantial equivalent of such a program, may advertise or otherwise indicate the specialty. A practitioner who has completed all of the requirements for specialty qualification except an examination may advertise or otherwise indicate the additional training which has been acquired. The phrase practice limited to shall be deemed a claim of special professional abilities, and may be used only by dentists who have completed specialty training satisfactory to the department or dentists who have restricted their practice to a dental specialty prior to January 1, 1979. This subdivision shall apply in addition to Section 29.1(b)(12)(i)(f) of this Part. http://tomlevymd.com/pressrelease.htm After learning of the dangers involved in the dental procedures he was performing, Dr. Kulacz gave up his traditional dental practice in 1997. Currently, he limits his practice to oral surgery, treating cavitations and other oral infections. He also continues to research and write. >>>>No, he's really a surgeon. Evidently with a DDS you can perform dental >>>>surgery so there is technically no difference between someone with a [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Let me see if I get this. Dr. K, not an oral surgeon, I'm not sure, but I do believe that Dr. K is in fact an OMFS. Steve but more capable than > most who are...this on the basis of a regular old dental school > education...which has somehow left the rest of us, with the same education [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Currently, he limits his practice to oral surgery, treating cavitations and > other oral infections. He also continues to research and write. SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > I'm not sure, but I do believe that Dr. K is in fact an OMFS. > > Steve I am not sure either, which is why I asked Clinton. What I do know is that I have an ADA Member Directory from 1999 (not sure how I got it, as I wasn't a member then...or now) that indicates he is a GP. T > > I'm not sure, but I do believe that Dr. K is in fact an OMFS. > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > T I should add that I do agree with Clinton, that a degree does not automatically make anyone "better" at something than anyone else, but it just seems unreasonable to make some of the statements about OS being "frady cats" when it comes to certain surgical procedures. That may be applicable in some cases, but certainly not as a general rule. T > I should add that I do agree with Clinton, that a degree does not > automatically make anyone "better" at something than anyone else, but it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > T I happen to be a fraidy cat when it comes to the sinus. I hope you don't think less of me. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > I happen to be a fraidy cat when it comes to the sinus. > I hope you don't think less of me. > > Steve I'm not sure it would be possible for me to think less of you...just kidding! I'm no fan of the sinuses either...but I am hoping the OS I refer to has a bit more confidence than I. T > > > > No, he's really a surgeon. Evidently with a DDS you can perform dental > > > > surgery so there is technically no difference between someone with a [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > Currently, he limits his practice to oral surgery, treating cavitations and > other oral infections. He also continues to research and write. I know my personal-experience type comment is relatively off-topic to the basic intent of this thread; however, I would like to say this: I've been "under the knife" of maxillofacial surgeons more than a few times. The surgery taking the longest period of time to complete took place in 1992; the surgery taking more than 12 hours and involved a number of professionals who I needed to trust with my life and well-being. I expected my team to be sharp as tacks and I had no idea if I would emerge from that room dead or alive or in what condition. The risks were very serious. The risks of not having the surgery were even more serious. It turned out as good as anyone might have hoped and I am forever grateful. The team members who were oral-maxillofacial surgeons deserve more understanding of the work they do and the training required than this thread offers. (Of course, I also know why I ended up in that operating room. But that is also not what this thread concerns.) Webby I know my personal-experience type comment is relatively off-topic to the basic intent of this thread; however, I would like to say this: I've been "under the knife" of maxillofacial surgeons more than a few times. The surgery taking the longest period of time to complete took place in 1992; the surgery taking more than 12 hours and involved a number of professionals who I needed to trust with my life and well-being. I expected my team to be sharp as tacks and I had no idea if I would emerge from that room dead or alive or in what condition. The risks were very serious. The risks of not having the surgery were even more serious. It turned out as good as anyone might have hoped and I am forever grateful. The team members who were oral-maxillofacial surgeons deserve more understanding of the work they do and the training required than this thread offers. (Of course, I also know why I ended up in that operating room. But that is also not what this thread concerns.) Webby Hi Webby, I appreciate your input. Most surgeons and healthcare professionals are caring and competent. Sue >You might want to pass your life lessons on to Dr. Kulacz, who came here >making offensive generalizations about an entire profession that seem >counter to your philospophy of "look(ing) at every situation individualy". > >T Now where did I put those confounded rose-colored glasses ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > > Maybe you can shed some light on this...but all the info I have come across > > indicate Dr. K is a GP, not a surgeon. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > DDS and > an OS degree. While the DDS degree may be the same, "technically no difference" is not an appropriate way to describe what one learns in a 4 year dental program versus what one learns in a 4 year dental program plus a 4 year oral surgery specialty program plus residency programs associated with the surgery program. Also interesting is the fact Dr. K's profile in some of the data you submitted earlier states his "practice is limited to oral surgery". In NY State I thought one had to be an actual specialist, who had graduated from an accredited specialty program, to limit one's practice to a recognized specialty. Still waiting for the library to get that book! T >>Maybe you can shed some light on this...but all the info I have come across >>indicate Dr. K is a GP, not a surgeon. > No, he's really a surgeon. Evidently with a DDS you can perform dental > surgery so there is technically no difference between someone with a > DDS and > an OS degree. ROTFLMAO!! Dartos > >>Maybe you can shed some light on this...but all the info I have come across > >>indicate Dr. K is a GP, not a surgeon. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > ROTFLMAO!! Oh boy, here we go. I am exaggerating to make a point. "Oh boy, here we go. I am exaggerating to make a point. " Reply. Perhaps you exaggerate too much and too often, thus making it difficult for some people to give you any credibility. Sue Clinton wrote: "No, he's really a surgeon. Evidently with a DDS you can perform dental surgery so there is technically no difference between someone with a DDS and an OS degree." Then wrote: "Oh boy, here we go. I am exaggerating to make a point" Why not just be honest and straightforward, instead twisting your posts in a snide manner, with the intent to constantly BELITTLE dentists. #1- You may sound more credible in your crusade to convince dentists that NICO exists. #2- You would not piss off all the the dentists that you are trying to convince Hey. I am not passing any judgments on your crusade, just trying to give your some helpful advice in your approach. Perhaps your approach works better than just being honest and straightforward. I am not sure. One thing I can say for sure though, you certainly piss dentists off this way. You may be able to grab some attention, but you can also turn them off completely too. In any event, whether you piss them off or not, it takes real science and real evidence to convince them. Oh well. Your quest. Your deal. Good luck. -Sue P.S. I am not joking or exaggerating to make my point here. Sure glad that was not passing judgment. *;* > Clinton wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > -Sue > P.S. I am not joking or exaggerating to make my point here. >"Oh boy, here we go. I am exaggerating to make a point. " > >Reply. Perhaps you exaggerate too much and too often, thus making it >difficult for some people to give you any credibility. > >Sue The Clinto Who Cried Wolf ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com |
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