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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / October 2005

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Invisalign premier providers?

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Steve.T.Duncan@gmail.com - 18 Oct 2005 19:08 GMT
In the Invisalign websites I saw some Orthodontists listed as premier
providers. I would like to know what make a provider a premier
provider. Is it experience and number of successful cases? Or is it
just an advertisement ploy? Do the dentists pay money to Invisalign to
put their listing first in search results (similar to sponsored links
in google).

In short, am I better off (final result wise) going to a Premier
provider? I am expecting the premier providers will cost more than
"normal" providers.

Thanks in adva
Amatus Cremona - 18 Oct 2005 19:16 GMT
> In the Invisalign websites I saw some Orthodontists listed as premier
> providers. I would like to know what make a provider a premier
> provider. Is it experience and number of successful cases?

The above plus amount of training.

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Amatus

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> In the Invisalign websites I saw some Orthodontists listed as premier
> providers. I would like to know what make a provider a premier
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Thanks in adva
Tony Bad - 18 Oct 2005 20:06 GMT
> > In the Invisalign websites I saw some Orthodontists listed as premier
> > providers. I would like to know what make a provider a premier
> > provider. Is it experience and number of successful cases?
>
> The above plus amount of training.

No disrespect intended to any of the orthodontists (or GP's who do
invisalign) who read this...but what possible extra amount of training could
one get or need with regard to invisalign? It doesn't seem like rocket
science and doesn't really work for complex cases where an experienced
orthodontist would clearly be needed and also have advantage over others
with less experience.

I took the basic course, but haven't done any cases, because quite frankly,
I wasn't all that impressed. I feel the ortho I work with can do better than
I can with this system...and for some minor cases, I can cobble together a
simple appliance at FAR less cost to patient.

Like to hear what others...particularly orthodontists feel.

T
Amatus Cremona - 18 Oct 2005 20:32 GMT
>> The above plus amount of training.
>
> No disrespect intended to any of the orthodontists (or GP's who do
> invisalign) who read this...but what possible extra amount of training
> could
> one get or need with regard to invisalign?

Overall training in orthodontics.  Board certified, etc.

Signature

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Amatus

/

>
>> > In the Invisalign websites I saw some Orthodontists listed as premier
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> T
W_B - 18 Oct 2005 20:33 GMT
>> > In the Invisalign websites I saw some Orthodontists listed as premier
>> > providers. I would like to know what make a provider a premier
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>T

Think that most orthos think they are the only one who can move teeth.
If the rest of us knew how ridiculously easy it was, more GP's would do ortho.
With the caveat that the armamentarium is expensive and skeletal malformations
are best treated by the Ortho.

I am happy to leave the wire benders to their chosen craft.

--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Amatus Cremona - 18 Oct 2005 20:34 GMT
> I am happy to leave the wire benders to their chosen craft.

Amazing how often we can agree.

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Amatus

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>
>>> > In the Invisalign websites I saw some Orthodontists listed as premier
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> Take out the G'RBAGE
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
W_B - 18 Oct 2005 20:41 GMT
>> I am happy to leave the wire benders to their chosen craft.
>
>Amazing how often we can agree.

Great minds think alike.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
W_B - 18 Oct 2005 20:45 GMT
>> I am happy to leave the wire benders to their chosen craft.
>
>Amazing how often we can agree.

Did some ortho early in my career at a clinic as an ass-ociate.
It's not extremely hard, it's just something that I didn't particularly enjoy doing.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Amatus Cremona - 18 Oct 2005 21:03 GMT
> Did some ortho early in my career at a clinic as an ass-ociate.
> It's not extremely hard, it's just something that I didn't particularly
> enjoy doing.

I give the orthodontists lots of credit.  The easy cases can be done by a
trained monkey.  The tough cases, well I am glad to have the board certified
guys for those.  I have a buddy near me who is board certified, and I would
have to train for a long time to be as good as he is.  The cases he does at
the cleft lip and facial deformity clinic are amazing.

Signature

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Amatus

/

>
>>> I am happy to leave the wire benders to their chosen craft.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Take out the G'RBAGE
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dr.Braces - 19 Oct 2005 03:33 GMT
I aggress, I find that all of my invisilin cases are only good for
minor correction, there is no way to finish the case in ideal results,
however you may come close with some.  I suggest 3-5 months of braces
after invislign to get thigns in order.  But it really depends on the
cases, for example, if you need to extrude a tooth or some teeth..can't
really do with invislin, etc.  I perfer standard braces, for the best
treateatment.
    not sure about the training thing, on the orgaional question, like
Tony said, it's very easy to change trays, etc.  Also, I havn't heard
anyone using the results from this as anything jet hot they would
consider using for their board cert.

Dr. Braces

>>> In the Invisalign websites I saw some Orthodontists listed as premier
>>> providers. I would like to know what make a provider a premier
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> T
Joel M. Eichen - 19 Oct 2005 09:42 GMT
>> > In the Invisalign websites I saw some Orthodontists listed as premier
>> > providers. I would like to know what make a provider a premier
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>orthodontist would clearly be needed and also have advantage over others
>with less experience.

One has to pass a rigorous test in Check Signing 101.

Joel

>I took the basic course, but haven't done any cases, because quite frankly,
>I wasn't all that impressed. I feel the ortho I work with can do better than
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>T
W_B - 18 Oct 2005 20:25 GMT
>> In the Invisalign websites I saw some Orthodontists listed as premier
>> providers. I would like to know what make a provider a premier
>> provider. Is it experience and number of successful cases?
>
>The above plus amount of training.

And probably a few extra buck$ that the doc shelled out.

I say consult with a Board Certified Orthodontist

(No slam to you Bornfeld)
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
orthodmd - 19 Oct 2005 04:06 GMT
I believe the only criteria for Premier status is the number of cases
treated.

charlie ruff
carabelli - 19 Oct 2005 14:12 GMT
> I believe the only criteria for Premier status is the number of cases
> treated.
>
> charlie ruff

Charlie - what did you think about the article in last months AJO-DO?

carabelli
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 19 Oct 2005 07:35 GMT
This premier status is a bunch of crap.
Anyone, general dentist or orthodontist who submits the highest number
of cases to invisalign in a month will get premier status.
It is obvious that mostly orthodontist will be in that list since ortho
is all they do all day. A general dentist who may have a stong
background in ortho but chooses to do all aspects of dentistry because
he/she likes all aspects of dentistry has no hope to meet that premier
status. Even if out of all ortho cases this doctor does he uses
invisalign 100%. An orthodontist can get this status by only doing 20%
of all his ortho cases with invisalign. Invisalign's system is not very
fear and I would not be surprised if they get another class action law
suit on this. Right now Invisalign is not doing so well and i predict
the stock prices will come down very quickly because of their
practices.
Invisalign has a new competitor a company that was recently created by
THE inventor of Invisalign who used to be the CEO and left the company.
The new competitor (ORTHOCLEAR) is much better than Invisalign and much
cheaper.
In fact this new company took over Invisalign's old plants in Pakistan
and rehired all the old people that used to work for invisalign.
As you may know after Sept 11 Invisalign closed the plant in Pakistan
and relocated to Costa Rica. I have been doing Invisalign for 3 years
now I was one of the first GP's to get certified in Southern California
and unlike the new dr's getting CERT1 done which is minor tooth
movements, I had the original full course given to the orthodontists.
Invisalign decided to split the full course into 2 separate courses so
they can make extra $$$ on a second class.
ORTHOCLEAR the second generation on clear removable aligners is going
to kick Invisalign's butt. Invisalign is in a panic right now because
they do not have a new product to offer. I had a great idea about 1.5
years ago and sent a letter to Tom Prescott to call me which would have
put Invisalign on the map but he never returned my call. Oh well too
bad.
I also told this to the marketing guy for invisalign who was interested
in my idea but he did not call me either. Oh well too bad again.
Interesting thing about this is Invisalign can not even sue orthoclear
because it went infront of the judge who threw out 5 of the 6 charges
of pattent infringement and told all parties that since Orthoclear's
owner was the original inventor, he can sue invisalign back for these 5
charges. This inventor worked on the pattents of invisalign and knew
all the loop holes to bring a competitor to invisalign which refused to
do things different and grow like it should have. When this new company
goes IPO it is going to make a killing.
I am certified in both ORTHOCLEAR and INVISALIGN.
I have to say ORTHOCLEAR is so much better for everyone.
And the people who worked on the virtual treatments in pakistan were
orthodontists during invisalign's early days. these setups were much
more accurate to real life. Now invisalign has graffic designers in
costa rica doing something they know nothing about. Since Orthoclear
gave these people their jobs back they have a great team.

> In the Invisalign websites I saw some Orthodontists listed as premier
> providers. I would like to know what make a provider a premier
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Thanks in adva
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 19 Oct 2005 07:39 GMT
p.s.
Also ORTHOCLEAR treats everyone the same there is no preference given
to dentists who submit more cases. it is much fairer Everyone is listed
alphabetically and geographicly as it should be.
Bill - 19 Oct 2005 16:51 GMT
Thanks for the extensive info. It sounds like you keep up to date with
these corporate and legal developments.

- dentaldoc

> This premier status is a bunch of crap.
> Anyone, general dentist or orthodontist who submits the highest number
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
> >
> > Thanks in adva
Joel M. Eichen - 19 Oct 2005 09:41 GMT
>In the Invisalign websites I saw some Orthodontists listed as premier
>providers. I would like to know what make a provider a premier
>provider. Is it experience and number of successful cases?

No, this means that when a Head of State needs ortho, they must
consult one of these guys ......

Joel

>Or is it
>just an advertisement ploy? Do the dentists pay money to Invisalign to
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Thanks in adva
 
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