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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / October 2005Rotten Dentist
Sometimes I wonder if the dental profession has not gone the way of a revolving door aimed at making profit over helping patients. I know it's all about money. Heck, I'm all for making a good living. But today it seems to take so long to get a procedure done. Time and time again, I will have dentists reschedule me for a new appointment. It used to be they would get the procure done in one visit, not three or four! I am convinced they want to milk the insurance system for all they can. Today my dentist really made me angry. He had such an attitude. I just started going to this dentist. As a result, I want to change dentists. Is it allowable for me to get the 18 x rays they just took of my teeth and have them sent to a new dentist? Thanks for your help. >Sometimes I wonder if the dental profession has not gone the way of a >revolving door aimed at making profit over helping patients. I know it's [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Thanks for your help. Yes, they should make copies for you to pick up, or have them sent, gratuitously of for a nominal fee. Check with your state to find out how it is there. This is from Wisconsin: The patient may obtain copies of the dental records by paying a reasonable copying cost. A person authorized to inspect or receive information on behalf of a patient includes a parent, guardian, custodian or an agent. The dentist is not required to and should not relinquish physical possession of the original records. But the dentist has an absolute legal duty to comply with the request for a copy or transfer of the records to whomever the patient desires with little or no interference. http://www.schencksolutions.com/health/hotbuttons/jan-05.html And this from ADA and Ohio: Question:Who owns patient records and do I have to provide copies of the records?Answer:Ohio law does not directly address patient access to records kept by a privatephysician. However, the American Medical Association (AMA) and the AmericanDental Association (ADA) has rendered opinions on the issue.Dentists are obliged to safeguard the confidentiality of patient records. Dentistsshall maintain records in a manner consistent with the protection of the welfare ofthe patient. Upon request of a patient or another dental practitioner, dentists shallprovide any information that will be beneficial for the future treatment of that patient.ADA Code Section 1.B.A dentist has the ethical obligation on request of either the patient or the patient’snew dentist to furnish, either gratuitously or for nominal cost, such dental records orcopies or summaries of them, including dental x-rays or copies of them, as will bebeneficial for the future treatment of that patient. This obligation exists whether ornot the patient’s account is paid in full. ADA Advisory Opinion 1.B.1.Ohio Revised Code Section 3701.741 dictates how health care professionals,including dentists, must make records available to patients or their representatives. Records must be available for examination to patients or representatives free ofcharge. Copies of such records must be made available according to the followingterms:• An initial fee of $15 to compensate for the records search.• One dollar per page for the first 10 pages of paper records, 50 centsper page for pages 11-50 and 20 cents per page for pages 51 andhigher.• For information recorded by methods other than paper, the actual costof producing the copy.• The actual cost of any postage paid by the health care practitioner. http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:gwB313SFFDgJ:www.dental.ohio.gov/FAQ.pdf+de ntal+x-rays+%2B+law+%2B+who+owns%3F&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 > Sometimes I wonder if the dental profession has not gone the way of a > revolving door aimed at making profit over helping patients. I know it's [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks for your help. Regulations vary somewhat by state. I can say that in New York, all the records are the property of the dental practice. Patients are entitled to copies on request for all records (including x-rays) for which a "reasonable" duplication fee may be charged. BTW, dentists generally get paid by insurance companies by procedure, not by the clock. If they take longer to perform a procedure, they're wasting their own time as well as yours. Steve  SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >Is it allowable for me to get the 18 x rays they just took of my teeth and >have >them sent to a new dentist? Federal law [HIPAA] dictates that the patient is entitled to a copy of the dental records at any time for any reason. The patient is responsible for paying for a _reasonable_ copying fee. This fee should be roughly equal to what it would be at a copying center such as Kinko's. The dental office is not allowed to withhold a copy of the records for any reason except refusal to pay the duplicating fee. The dental office cannot refuse to copy records if the patient owes the office money. Signature/ Amatus / > >> Sometimes I wonder if the dental profession has not gone the way of a [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Steve >>Is it allowable for me to get the 18 x rays they just took of my teeth and >>have [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > refusal to pay the duplicating fee. The dental office cannot refuse to > copy records if the patient owes the office money. The request must be made in writing. Verbal requests don't count. > The request must be made in writing. Verbal requests don't count. Agreed, thanks I forgot that part Signature/ Amatus / > >>>Is it allowable for me to get the 18 x rays they just took of my teeth [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > The request must be made in writing. Verbal requests don't count. >>Is it allowable for me to get the 18 x rays they just took of my teeth and >>have [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >refusal to pay the duplicating fee. The dental office cannot refuse to copy >records if the patient owes the office money. In California, one dentist told me it would cost me $25 to get a copy of my xrays. Another, with digital xrays gave me a copy for free but they were "contact sheet" size, not full size. > In California, one dentist told me it would cost me $25 to get a copy > of my x-rays. Another, with digital x-rays gave me a copy for free but > they were "contact sheet" size, not full size. $25 is a fair price for the time and materials involved to duplicate film images. The digital images should have been provided on digital media. $10-25 would be fair price for those copies. Signature/ Amatus / > >>>Is it allowable for me to get the 18 x rays they just took of my teeth [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > of my xrays. Another, with digital xrays gave me a copy for free but > they were "contact sheet" size, not full size. Nice reply. I agree with it all except your comparison of Kinos fees to "reasonable." Reasonable will be higher than Kinko. You would have to pay staff to do the copying. If your xrays are not digital, they have to be chemically copied. Other than that, nice answer. charlie ruff > Nice reply. I agree with it all except your comparison of Kinko's fees > to "reasonable." Reasonable will be higher than Kinko's. You would have > to pay staff to do the copying. If your x-rays are not digital, they > have to be chemically copied. Other than that, nice answer. Hi Charlie, Perhaps I should change the wording to something like the amount it would cost for a staff person to take the records to Kinko's and make the copies. Film images are just transparencies. They can be duplicated by a film shop. The duplicating fee should be comparative to the fee charged by the shop. I figure about $25 for one film duplication is fair. That would be for as many film images as could fit on one piece of duplicating film at one time. Plus, the cost to occasionally re-do the copies as the duplicates sometimes come out rather poor. Duplicating records is not about making money, but about being fair with people's information. If we had to make a profit from the duplicating process, we would need to charge double for copies. Signature/ Amatus / > Nice reply. I agree with it all except your comparison of Kinos fees > to "reasonable." Reasonable will be higher than Kinko. You would have > to pay staff to do the copying. If your xrays are not digital, they > have to be chemically copied. Other than that, nice answer. > > charlie ruff > Sometimes I wonder if the dental profession has not gone the way of a > revolving door aimed at making profit over helping patients. I know it's [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > want > to milk the insurance system for all they can. Unfortunately, dentists aren't paid by the hour. 1 hour or 4 hours, the insurance pays the same. > Today my dentist really made me angry. He had such an attitude. I just > started going to this dentist. As a result, I want to change dentists. Is > it allowable for me to get the 18 x rays they just took of my teeth and > have > them sent to a new dentist? Yes. Songwriter wrote: It used to be they would get the procure done in one visit, not three or four! I am convinced they want to milk the insurance system for all they can. Reply. If you need crown work done, they have to make an impression and send this to a dental lab. The dentist places a tremporary corwn. The lab makes the permanent crown. Therefore at least 2 appts are required with the dentist. That is just the nature of the beast. The dentist is not trying to rip you off. HOWEVER, If you want to speed it up (one appt rather than 2)... go to a dentist who owns a CEREC. S/he can make your crown right there in the office! You go home with a permanent crown, same day. The problem is... it will not cost you less. It will save you time, but not $. In fact, it may even cost you more. -Sue (nondentist) Absolutely > Sometimes I wonder if the dental profession has not gone the way of a > revolving door aimed at making profit over helping patients. I know it's [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thanks for your help. Sometimes I wonder if the dental profession has not gone the way of a revolving door aimed at making profit over helping patients. I know it's all about money. Heck, I'm all for making a good living. But today it seems to take so long to get a procedure done. Time and time again, I will have dentists reschedule me for a new appointment. It used to be they would get the procure done in one visit, not three or four! I am convinced they want to milk the insurance system for all they can. ____________________________ As mentioned in other responses, the dentist does NOT get paid more for taking more time. In some cases, it can take more time to get a result that is superior -- isn't that what you want for your dental health? The time needed for a "procedure" varies greatly from one patient to another. Teeth, and patients, are not interchangeable. A dentist who devotes more attention to your dental needs may take more time, but that doesn't cost the insurance company a penny more than a dentist who rushes through treatment without an eye for detail. If a dentist truly wanted to "milk" the system or treat patients with a revolving door, he would take LESS time with each patient, not more. - dentaldoc >Sometimes I wonder if the dental profession has not gone the way of a >revolving door aimed at making profit over helping patients. I know [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >- dentaldoc I too have noticed this. I made an appointment for a tooth that was hurting, then when I got there they said "You'll need to have it filled" and I said, "I thought that was what I came here for!" and they said "No, we didn't schedule you for that, you will have to come back." I think it's just a way of getting more money out of you for each appointment. I guess those $10 co-pays add up... A doctor does not diagnose a cold in one visit then tell you that you have to come back for the shot on another visit... Seems to me that if they knew I was having tooth pain they should have scheduled enough time for my appointment, to take care of the problem. > I too have noticed this. I made an appointment for a tooth that was > hurting, then when I got there they said "You'll need to have it > filled" and I said, "I thought that was what I came here for!" and > they said "No, we didn't schedule you for that, you will have to come > back." I think it's just a way of getting more money out of you for > each appointment. I guess those $10 co-pays add up... Dear Sir, Please let me know if your tooth needed 90 minutes or 20 minutes to fix. If it only needed 20 minutes, but 90 minutes were scheduled, were you willing to pay for the 90 minute procedure, since you would have locked up the treatment area for that long ? Since the dental office probably did not know how much time to schedule, they scheduled a shorter appointment for diagnosis first. You cannot compare a GP physician to a dentist. A dental office is scheduled like a hospital operating room. One person per treatment room for a given amount of time. Signature/ Amatus / > >>Sometimes I wonder if the dental profession has not gone the way of a [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > they knew I was having tooth pain they should have scheduled enough > time for my appointment, to take care of the problem. Don't you just love the appointments that show up on the schedule with 'broken tooth' or 'lost filling'? Will it be endo, crown, filling, extraction, or just 30 seconds of polishing? Dartos > Dear Sir, > > Please let me know if your tooth needed 90 minutes or 20 minutes to fix. If > it only needed 20 minutes, but 90 minutes were scheduled, were you willing > to pay for the 90 minute procedure, since you would have locked up the > treatment area for that long ? Yeah, I get those all the time, there is always time to Dx and place some IRM & Rx. >Don't you just love the appointments that show up on the >schedule with 'broken tooth' or 'lost filling'? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> to pay for the 90 minute procedure, since you would have locked up the >> treatment area for that long ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >> I too have noticed this. I made an appointment for a tooth that was >> hurting, then when I got there they said "You'll need to have it [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >office is scheduled like a hospital operating room. One person per >treatment room for a given amount of time. Of course in the HMO practice they hope the patient never returns ! 8^]] -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >> I too have noticed this. I made an appointment for a tooth that was >> hurting, then when I got there they said "You'll need to have it [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >office is scheduled like a hospital operating room. One person per >treatment room for a given amount of time. Okay, you make a point. But in the past I never had this problem, it seems to be a more recent development. Used to be, I'd go in, they'd look at my xray, see I needed a filling, and give it to me. >I too have noticed this. I made an appointment for a tooth that was >hurting, then when I got there they said "You'll need to have it [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >they knew I was having tooth pain they should have scheduled enough >time for my appointment, to take care of the problem. I've noticed awful communication between who takes calls and the dentist. For instance, I specifically ask Does x deal with this? They answer yes, x deals with that. I say ARE YOU SURE? they say yes, I am sure, x does that. I say are you REALLY SURE because I don't want to waste my time and his time if x does not do that. They say yes x can help you with that. So I get the earliest possible appointment 2.5 months later....Turns out x does NOT in fact do what was promised and hasn't the foggiest notion why I am there, even though I AGAIN clearly stated my reason for being there on the new patient forms in answer to the question "Why are you here today?" Apparently no notation or an inacurate notation is made Re: the reason for the appt. And then the dentist doesn't even bother to read the answer to "why are you here" on his own form before talking to you! It's a bait and switch. What is promised is not delivered and this is no cheap hmo deal either. So it turns out to be a waste of time and money and people hate that! (Actually in this case it was a waste of time and a MAJOR LEAGUE ANNOYANCE, but not a waste of money because I refused to pay for the incompetence.) And if this is not bad enough, AFTER this annoying, time wasting, bait and switching, what is promised is not delivered incident, someone from that office was constantly leaving messages on my ans machine trying to sell me something. YECH. I had to call the office manager AGAIN and tell them to back off. They hadn't the single foggiest clue. I'm still annoyed everytime I drive by that factory masquerading as a professional office (no offense to factories.) >>I too have noticed this. I made an appointment for a tooth that was >>hurting, then when I got there they said "You'll need to have it [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >clue. I'm still annoyed everytime I drive by that factory >masquerading as a professional office (no offense to factories.) Amen. I feel your pain. >I too have noticed this. I made an appointment for a tooth that was >hurting, then when I got there they said "You'll need to have it [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >they knew I was having tooth pain they should have scheduled enough >time for my appointment, to take care of the problem. I would hope that a doctor does not try to treat a cold but that's bye the bye, I saw the doctor about a mucocele and he didn't whip out his knife there and then. I got an appointment to go back to have it treated. The first appointment is an assessment. Just as in the case of the dentist. Ann Yes. >Sometimes I wonder if the dental profession has not gone the way of a >revolving door aimed at making profit over helping patients. I know it's [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Thanks for your help. |
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