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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / September 2006Root canal w/ serious problems
About 4 months ago I began the root canal process. I was put on an antibiotic on Friday afternoon and was drilled on Monday morning. Is this enough time to allow the infection to go away? I questioned them and they said the antibiotics would start to work immediately. Anyway, he placed temporary fillings in 2 teeth that were right next to each other - upper left bicuspid and a molar. I was told that I would have some pain for a couple of days. I was told to continue my antibiotic and was also put on Ibuprofen 800mg for pain. My appointment for the rest of the root canal was scheduled to be done in two weeks. The pain did not go away in a couple of days. I was scheduled to go to New York the weekend before my next appointment to finish the root canal. I called the dentist's office and told them that it had been a week and a half and I was still experiencing pain, that I was to go to NYC that weekend, and I did not want to have any problems with my teeth at that time. I was then told that sometimes the pain would last as long as two weeks. I went on my trip and was miserable! The pain would really flare up when I rode the subway ( I am guessing that it was due to all the jostling) . I went to have the root canal done on that Wednesday after my trip. I told him that I was still having pain. He shot me up about three times with novacaine and waited til he thought I was numb. He began to place the rubber dam over my teeth. I stopped him and told him that I could really feel that. He shot me up a couple of more times. Shouldn't the pain associated with just the placement of the rubber dam have tipped him off that maybe something wasn't right? He began drilling and I could feel a little pain, which was bearable, and a lot of pressure. I just assumed that this was normal. Then he irrigated the tooth. When he did this, I could feel cold, bleachy tasting liquid go up into my cheek and swish around all the way up to my eye. Again, I thought this was normal or maybe just a sensation from the novacaine. After the procedure was finished, he refilled my antibiotic and wrote me an Rx for Vicodan. My face was a little puffy that night, but just assumed that it was normal due to the trauma of what had been done. The next day it was still puffy. However, on Friday morning it was very swollen. I didn't call the dentist, I just stopped in, unannounced, and asked if this was normal. He took one look at me and said, "Oh, my!" He then wrote me another Rx for a different antibiotic and told me to take it conjunction with the one I was already taking and told me to stop in on Monday morning. Saturday morning when I woke, my face was swollen all the way up to and around my eye. When I bent over to pick up some dirty clothes a bunch of rusty colored liquid came running out of my nose. I spent the rest of the day with my head hanging over the edge of the bed trying to drain all that crap out of my face. I felt a little better the next day and the swelling had gone down some. When I got to his office on Monday, I told he what had happened and told him that I was concerned about having infection spread to my brain. He didn't look all that concerned. He put me on a Medrol Dose Pack (oral steriod) to take with my antibiotics. I went back to see him every Friday for the next month. He took an x-ray each time I said that I was still experiencing pain. All he ever said was, "The x-rays look okay." He would occassionally change my antibiotic. On one of my Friday visits he told me that the problem was that the roots of my molar had grown into my sinuses. Couldn't he see this on the very first x- ray he took before any work was performed? On my last visit to him he told me that he needed to cap the teeth as I "was compromising the integrity of my teeth." I told him that I was reluctant to have any more work done at this time due to all the pain that I was having. He told me to make an appointment to come in in two weeks to have the work finished. I went to the receptionist and told her that he wanted me back in two weeks, but to schedule it for four weeks to allow the pain to go away. They always want at least half of the payment up front, which in this case was $840, and I didn't have it and that I would be able to come up with the money in a month as opposed to two weeks. After two weeks after my last visit to the dentist, my pain still had not subsided and I went to a medical doctor. I told him that I was experiencing dizziness, light-headedness, loss of balance, loss of concentration, itchy rash that would turn into pustuales (pimple like), burning sensation behind my left eye, tingling in my left cheek that would radiate up and around my head, pain under my cheek bone, and that I suspected that I may have something systemic because I did not feel right. He ordered blood work and a CAT scan of my sinuses. Both came back negative and I was told to see a specialist. I went a couple of weeks ago to see an ENT. He basically laughed at me since nothing showed up on my CAT scan. He told me the pain was coming from my tooth. I asked how that could be when the roots are supposedly dead. He said that wasn't a dentist. He said that the CAT scan did show that I have a deviated septum and a prominent nasal spur and the spur could cause headaches. I told him that I guess that I have always had that spur and I had very rarely experienced headaches. He told me that I should go back to the dentist and have him cap my teeth. I am at a loss as to what to do next. No one seems concerned about my symptoms and I am beginning to get more than a little worried. I believe that he filled my teeth with gutta-percha, which I have recently discovered contains approximately 5% mercury. Could I have mercury poisoning? I have also learned that oxygen deprived bacteria continue to live inside that tooth and can leach out making you sick. Why doen't dentists recognize this even with documentation? Any advise would be greatly appreciated. I don't like the fact that my dentist wanted to continue the root cnal work even though I insisted that I was still in pain. > About 4 months ago I began the root canal process. I was put on an > antibiotic on Friday afternoon and was drilled on Monday morning. Is this [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > dentist wanted to continue the root cnal work even though I insisted that I > was still in pain. That's a lot of questions. There is no way I can answer specifically to your situation. Unfortunately it is not rare to start a root canal and to stir up a hornets nest--a chronic low-grade infection can go acute. In this situation it can be far more difficult or even impossible to achieve good anesthesia. Doing the root canal should eliminate the infection, but sometimes some infected material can be forced up past the tip of the roots and cause an infection similar to what you've had. I am slightly concerned that from your description your dentist MAY have irrigated some fluid past the tip of the root. This can cause a very florid and occasionally serious reaction in itself. My advice is that you have an endodontist (root canal specialist) have a look at the tooth, and tell him/her everything you've written here. BTW, gutta percha contains no mercury--at least no gutta percha I've ever seen. It is latex, and some barium salts are mixed in to make it visible on x-ray. Steve  Signature{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Arial;}} {\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove "nospam" to reply\par } >> About 4 months ago I began the root canal process. I was put on an >> antibiotic on Friday afternoon and was drilled on Monday morning. Is this [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >Steve Thank you for the advice. I am just sick of feeling like this. I would agree: you should see an endodontist, who is a root canal specialist. Infections can last longer that we'd like, and it's possible that is what you have. It's impossible to really give you any advice without examining you and knowing your age and health history, but a specialist should be able to see what's what. I would tell your dentist you are doing this and request a copy of all the x-rays he's taken, so that the endodontist can see how things have progressed and see how that compares with the current situation. Be assured that eventually most all infections do resolve. Good luck! > About 4 months ago I began the root canal process. I was put on an > antibiotic on Friday afternoon and was drilled on Monday morning. Is this [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > dentist wanted to continue the root cnal work even though I insisted that I > was still in pain. I agree you should definitely see an endodontist. I am very surprised that your dentist suggested a crown for the tooth while you were still having pain. By the way... change dentists. >I would agree: you should see an endodontist, who is a root canal > specialist. Infections can last longer that we'd like, and it's possible [quoted text clipped - 160 lines] > I >> was still in pain. I was a bit taken back when he wanted to proceed with the crowns, too. That was the last time that I went to him and I don't think that I will go back to him. I think there is something fishy going on over there. My sister goes to the same place but has a different dentist. She just paid $2,500 for a bridge two weeks ago that they want to drill through now. >I agree you should definitely see an endodontist. I am very surprised that >your dentist suggested a crown for the tooth while you were still having [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> I >>> was still in pain. I wouldn't worrry about gutta percha being toxic... sounds more like combination of persisitent infection and possiblity of sodium hypochlorite used to clean the canal going past the apex of root. That can cause severe rxn but usually will go away by itself... you should see an endodontist for consultand wait on the crowns for now. >I wouldn't worrry about gutta percha being toxic... sounds more like >combination of persisitent infection and possiblity of sodium >hypochlorite used to clean the canal going past the apex of root. That >can cause severe rxn but usually will go away by itself... you should >see an endodontist for consultand wait on the crowns for now. Actually everything is toxic ... .depending on the dose! Water is even toxic - in large doses, it causes drowning! > Water is even toxic - in large doses, it causes drowning! The subject is NOT water. Irrelevant! Sorry, I missed this. I haven't been reading this group. http://www.toothwisdom.net/r.root_canals.html http://www.integratedhealthpractice.com/treatment.asp#Root ll root cancel fillings have the potential to casue bad health. This is because, althought the nerve has been removed, bacteria still colonise in the minute tubules of a tooth. These bacteria produce toxins which enter the body causing potential harm. An area of residual infection which is left under the gum, usually following, but sometimes a long time after an extraction can cause problems. Symptoms can be coincided with the energetic links to the body as well as localised problems. http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/RCTframeset.htm http://www.ericdavisdental.com/root_canals.htm http://www.whale.to/d/root2.html http://www.drshankland.com/rootcanal.html http://webpages.charter.net/kyarbrough/rootcanals.htm http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm http://www.cfsn.com/maz/ http://cnorman.best.vwh.net/blazing/dental.html http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/root_therapies.htm http://zap.intergate.ca/root.html http://www.dentistryholistic.com/education.html http://www.hugnet.com/Root_Canals.html http://www.karlloren.com/ultrasound/p25.htm http://www.hallvtox.dircon.co.uk/hallvt.html Root Canals. A tooth has miles of tiny canals running through the root. A dead or root filled tooth will have bacteria in these canals. There is no way of removing the bacteria once they are in there. http://www.toothwisdom.net/ Toxicity from Root Canals The next subject to be discussed are root canals and their possible source of toxicity. Approximately twenty five million Americans undergo root canal therapy every year in an effort to prevent the loss of teeth that have abscessed. The root canal is the left portion of the tooth which houses the vital organs such as the nerve and blood vessels. The dentist endeavors to clean and sterilize this canal and fill it with a sterile, non toxic inert material. This usually renders this tooth serviceable and non painful; however, the entire inner hard core of the tooth is made of dentin which has several million dentinal tubules. These tubules allow the circulation of lymphatic type fluid to circulate from the vital organs of the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This is a viable circulatory phenomenon which has a purpose. It services the periodontal ligament as well as the sensory aspect of the nerve and blood centers in the root canal. If the body chemistry is healthy, the flow of lymphatic fluid is from the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This creates an irrigation for the tooth and usually prevents the accumulation of plaque to form. When the body chemistry is not healthy, then the circulation is from the outside of the tooth to the inner root canal. This allows for no irrigation, but rather an accumulation of plaque to form. There are many more reasons for maintaining the integrity of the circulation in the dentinal tubules. Root canal therapy completely destroys this integrity, and what happens to the non-circulating fluid in these tubules? This fluid as it ages becomes stagnant and becomes a toxic substance. This porous structure now becomes a septic mass emanating poisons into the body. Is this what you want? Mercury amalgams are said to be the caskets of the body. Root canals are said to be the cadavers of the body. I do not recommend root canals for anyone. Each individual has a right to their decisions. Many people simply do not wish to lose a member of their body. I respect this, and I always discuss the consequences. The next area of discussion is whether the root canal filling actually sterilizes the apical end of the tooth. There are so many lateral canals at the root end of the tooth where bacteria can harbor that it is unlikely that a complete aseptic condition exists. This, however, is a debateable subject. Again, the complete acceptance of root canal therapy as a viable substitution for extraction is completely and whole heartedly supported by organized dentistry. You are in violation of the code of ethics if you speak out against root canal therapy. When I was a practicing dentist, I always let the patient make that decision after explaining all pros and cons. FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: >California Judge Approves Landmark Warning on Mercury Use in Dentistry. >(San Francisco, CA) - For the first time anywhere, dentists will be >required to post a warning about the dangers of mercury in their dental >fillings. A California Superior court judge finalized the language for >the warning to be posted in dentists' offices here today. >The warning will read as follows: >Notice to Patients, Proposition 65: >Warning on dental amalgams, used in many dental fillings, causes exposure >to mercury, a chemical known to the state of California to cause birth >defects or other reproductive harm. >Root canal treatments and restorations including fillings, crowns and >bridges, use chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer. >The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has studied the situation and >approved for use all dental restorative materials. >Consult your dentist to determine which materials are appropriate for your >treatment. >The exact language of the warning was argued and then finalized before >Superior Court Judge James A. Robertson II between the California Dental [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >mercury dental fillings and root canals. The agreement also allows non-CDA >dentists to opt in to the agreement and post the warning. >The warning is the result of a lawsuit filed by The Law Offices of Shawn >Khorrami on behalf of As You Sow, a not-for-profit foundation dedicated to >advocacy and activism in the public interest. >"This is the first admission by organized dentistry that amalgams pose a >potential health risk," says Shawn Khorrami, lead attorney. "The only >problem is that it's about 100 years too late." >This California consent judgment follows on the heels of recent lawsuits >filed in Georgia, Texas, Ohio and Los Angeles, California charging that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >risks to certain users. Mercury, a highly toxic substance, is the most >widely used substance in dental fillings today. >The use of mercury-based thimerosal in vaccines also has been the source >of the recent controversy in the Homeland Security legislation. >Khorrami filed the lawsuit against Roger Fieldman D.D.S., Inc., the >Citadel Dental Group, Inc. dental offices, dental laboratories and >private dental schools and training programs with more than nine >employees. The suit won the enforcement of Proposition 65, Safe Drinking >Water and Toxics Enforcement Act [Health & Safety Code § 25249.6]. >Proposition 65 requires that a clear and reasonable warning be provided to >persons prior to their exposure to a chemical known to cause cancer or >reproductive harm. This statute lists mercury, contained in dental >amalgam, as a substance that can cause reproductive toxicity. The lawsuit >was based on the absence of warnings to patients treated with amalgam >restorative materials in dental offices. >The judgment on Proposition 65 mandates that all dental offices with more >than nine employees provide warnings on the dangers of Mercury dental >fillings to patients. Those in non-compliance could incur a fine of up to >$2,500 per day. >Press may contact: Jackie Gladfelter at 650-218-1856 or D. Infusino at >415-225-7970; call Attorney Shawn Khorrami at 818-947-5111. >### Jan I agree. Organized dentistry should not shut people up for speaking thier opinion. Even if that person is a wackjob. There should be some discussion. >I agree. Organized dentistry should not shut people up for speaking >thier opinion. Even if that person is a wackjob. There should be some >discussion. That is the role of newsgroups ...... >The subject is NOT water. > >Irrelevant! > >Sorry, I missed this. I haven't been reading this group. REPLY My prayers answered! Thanks to everyone who replied to my post. I have an appointment with the dentist tomorrow morning to have him once again check on the teeth that he root canaled. I will have him refer me to an endodontist. I have done some research on my own over the weekend and did read about some of the stuff that LadyLollipop was referring to. I was reading about Weston Price and his theories on focal infection and the toxicities caused by bacterial poisons left in the tubules leaching out causing sickness and disease. From a medical standpoint, this makes extreme sense. The dentist certainly never discussed any of this with me! I had no clue things could get out of hand from a tooth. I may have opted for just having the thing pulled, which also was never discussed. All I know is that ever since I had the root canals done four months ago I just haven't felt the same. I am tired all of the time and have no energy, along with everything else that I stated in my first post. Also, over the weekend the side of my face, from my eye down to my ear, was very sore. If I touched beside my ear I could feel pressure that went directly to the tooth. My eyelid would twitch a lot and the tingling went down to my bottom lip. I will let you know what the dentist says about my teeth after he examines them tomorrow. If he looks at the x-ray and says that everything looks okay and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! >> Water is even toxic - in large doses, it causes drowning! > [quoted text clipped - 182 lines] > >Jan >of the stuff that Lad{ }op was referring to. I was reading about Weston > Price and his theories on focal infection and the toxicities caused by [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > get out of hand from a tooth. I may have opted for just having the thing > pulled, which also was never discussed. That particular study was proven wrong in 1923. Forget about it. Signature/ Amatus / > Thanks to everyone who replied to my post. I have an appointment with the > dentist tomorrow morning to have him once again check on the teeth that he [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > okay > and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved it wrong? >>of the stuff that Lad{ }op was referring to. I was reading about Weston >> Price and his theories on focal infection and the toxicities caused by [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> okay >> and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! > Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved it > wrong? The entire scientific community. Do you want your dental/medical care to based on one study done in 1918 that was proven wrong a few years later ? If you prefer to listen to a retired day care worker rather than learned professionals, that is your prerogative. Have a nice day. Signature/ Amatus / > Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved it > wrong? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>> okay >>> and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! There is no need to get snippy. I was simply asking a question. And the reason it makes sense is that I never had any of these problems until after I was root canaled. It just all seems pretty coincidental to me. And, I have been reading stories of other people whose problems could not be diagnosed and they got better after the tooth was removed. That kind of speaks for itself also, don't you think? >> Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved it >> wrong? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>>> okay >>>> and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! > There is no need to get snippy. I was simply asking a question. And the > reason it makes sense is that I never had any of these problems until [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and they got better after the tooth was removed. That kind of speaks for > itself also, don't you think? AMEN!! >>> Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved it >>> wrong? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>>>> okay >>>>> and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! First I am not a dentist but I do lurk here at times. If you can save this tooth, or any tooth, please save the tooth. I have crohn's and do to bleed outs and absorption issues I have five or six teeth left and will probably lose at least two more of them in the near future. The top has a full denture which isn't too bad for false teeth but on the bottom there is no suction to keep dentures/bridges in place. Save your teeth as long as you can, it will be worth it. Just my opinion. UM MOM Susan > There is no need to get snippy. I was simply asking a question. And the > reason it makes sense is that I never had any of these problems until [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>>>> okay >>>>> and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! > First I am not a dentist but I do lurk here at times. If you can save > this [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > suction to keep dentures/bridges in place. Save your teeth as long as you > can, it will be worth it. Just my opinion. UM MOM Susan http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm#treatment Q: What is the worst treatment done by dentists? A: While mercury is toxic and can do terrible things to nerve tissue, it does it slowly over decades. The treatment that can have the biggest and fastest impact on the body is root canal therapy. The idea of keeping a dead, infected organ in the body is only thought to be a good idea by dentists. A root canal-treated tooth always negatively affects your immune system. http://www.integratedhealthpractice.com/treatment.asp#Root All root cancel fillings have the potential to casue bad health. This is because, althought the nerve has been removed, bacteria still colonise in the minute tubules of a tooth. These bacteria produce toxins which enter the body causing potential harm. An area of residual infection which is left under the gum, usually following, but sometimes a long time after an extraction can cause problems. Symptoms can be coincided with the energetic links to the body as well as localised problems. http://www.toothwisdom.net/r.root_canals.html ROOT CANALS A "root canal" is a procedure that a dentist uses to allow a patient to keep a dead tooth in his or her mouth. The fallacy with this concept is that the body doesn't like dead things in it and will try, sometimes desperately, to get rid of the dead thing. Notwithstanding, the fact that it may be "handy" to save a tooth for "dental convenience", it does not change the fact that root canal treatments can devastate the human immune system. "Root canals" cause: 1.. Suppression of the immune system 2.. The creation of an "interference field" on the meridian that the particular tooth is on (meridian - a channel of energy that flows between different tissues, organs and structures) . 3.. The production of the most toxic organic substance known to man. Root-canal fillings can cause serious side effects. Dr. Weston price is recognized as the greatest researcher that the dental profession has ever produced. Dr. Price, after observing many patients with crippling degenerative diseases not responding to treatment, suspected infected root canal-filled teeth to be the cause. He then embarked on a 25 - year-long study to see if his suspicions were correct. This study was done during the first 3 decades of the 20th century! However this information was not shared with us when we were dental students so we had a big void in our dental education where root canals are concerned. Dr. Price devised a testing method which disclosed the presence of infection in a tooth which otherwise seemed to be healthy - that is, the implanting of the root canal filled tooth under the skin of a laboratory animal. He found that when the root-filled tooth of a patient with a degenerative disease was extracted and imbedded in an animal, that animal would develop the patient's disease. He did this in over 5000 animal studies and the results were consistent. In the beginning, Dr. Price did not know just where the infection was hiding in the tooth, only that a patient's illness was rapidly transferred from his root-filled tooth to laboratory animals in case after case. Dr. Price was able to culture the bacteria in root-filled teeth and trap their toxins, reproducing a disease in a rabbit by injecting the cultured material into the animal. Dr. Price discovered a wide variety of degenerative diseases to be transferable to rabbits, such as endocarditis and other heart diseases, kidney and bladder diseases, arthritis, rheumatism, mental diseases, lung problems, pregnancy complications, almost any degenerative problem - and after extraction of these teeth, a large percentage of patients recovered from their illnesses. >> There is no need to get snippy. I was simply asking a question. And the >> reason it makes sense is that I never had any of these problems until [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >>>>>> okay >>>>>> and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! ATTENTION ! ! ! Jan Drew has now begun posting as the LollipopLady. For the sake of any new readers to this newsgroup. Jan is a retired day care owner/operator, (according to her) who makes a lot of noise about amalgam toxicity. She is not a dentist, has no training in dentistry, and does not really understand scientific methods. In addition, she flat out refuses to engage in any discussion about this issue even when the specific point of discussion does not contradict her own point of view. She cannot communicate much beyond pasting the words of other people to responses, [Many of the quotes do not apply to what is being said]. She, also, does not give any credit to the person from which she takes these quotations. Her behavior is very similar to a software program designed to post specific remarks to key words. Please be cautious if you choose to follow any advice presented by her. Recognize that her views do NOT reflect those of modern dentistry. Her views mirror those of dishonest people who survive by preying on the innocent. If you watch and read carefully, you will see her accuse anyone who does not agree with all of her views (uneducated as they may be) of being a Liar. When that does not get enough attention, she will resort to calling people "Heifer", "Jew-boy", Atheist, Queer, etc. Her behavior is certainly not civil nor compassionate. If you read exactly what her claims are in regard to amalgam toxicity, you will find that her claims do not make scientific sense. She claims to have been healed of neurological defects during the time that her bodily mercury levels would have been at their highest. If she really had mercury toxicity, she should have been more ill during this time, not feeling better than she had in many years. She is either badly mistaken, or she is lying about what made her ill. Even those individuals who would like to see amalgam banned from use, find her posting methods, and refusal to discuss any topics, despicable. Please recognize that there are far more people sensitive to Penicillin, latex, peanuts, Sulfites and even to bananas than there are people sensitive to dental amalgam and the metals it contains. None of these other materials have been banned, nor would we expect them to be banned in the future. The lack of response (from the dentists who frequent this newsgroup) to Jan's comments in to this message thread does not represent anything other than the acknowledgement that no one can have a mature discussion with this woman. Notice how she will respond with the same slander and call me a liar rather than engage in any meaningful discussion. .. >There is no need to get snippy. I was simply asking a question. And the >reason it makes sense is that I never had any of these problems until after I [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >>>>> okay >>>>> and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! ``````````````````````` Stephen (What's a temporary?) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ATTENTION ! ! ! > [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > a liar > rather than engage in any meaningful discussion. ATTENTION ! ! ! >For the sake of any new readers to this newsgroup. Jan is a retired >day care owner/operator, (according to her) who makes a lot of noise >about amalgam toxicity. Incorrect. I post the scientific proof of mercury amalgam toxicity. http://tinyurl.com/46pwb >She is not a dentist, has no training in dentistry, That's true. Just a mercury poisoned person who can close to death. >and does not really understand scientific methods. That's a lie. Dr Steve has NOT one single study proving amalgams to be safe, while I have lots of proof and studies that show they are NOT safe. http://tinyurl.com/7xq58 >In addition, she flat >out refuses to engage in any discussion about this issue even when the >specific point of discussion does not contradict her own point of view. Another lie. Dentist are taught well is dental school to lie. http://tinyurl.com/3rly6 >She >cannot communicate much beyond pasting the words of other people to >responses, even when the quotes do not apply to what is being said. See above. >She, >also, does not give any credit to the person from which she takes these >quotations. Her behavior is very similar to a software program designed > to post specific remarks to key words. Anyone can note, Dr Steve is sour grapes because he refuses to discuss and answer my questions. He is just one of many here who can't. http://tinyurl.com/5ufrd Follow that thread and see where Steve got caught in his own trap. He refused to discuss, couldn't answer my questions http://tinyurl.com/4kucc Here is where Bill Combs got caught and could answer my question, and Steve calls them *silly*. >Please be cautious if you choose >to follow any advice presented by her. I have helped others and will continue. Proof below. http://tinyurl.com/3uezd >Recognize that her views do NOT reflect those of modern dentistry. They are NOT my views, they are written by researchers, Chemists, toxicologists, DDS's and MD's. Steve is a BLATANT LIAR. By modern dentistry Dr Steve means the lying beliefs of *organized dentistry and medicine* who remain in denial. Their concern is EGO and afraid of being sued for the lies down through the ages. . Her views mirror those of dishonest people who survive by preying on the >innocent. Dr Steve is DISHONEST. I have a message, and it starts with *IF* *IF* you have an unanswered health problem,,,,,,,,CHECK THE TEETH! NOT by a mainstream dentist, but an Alt. dentist who KNOWS the dangers of metalin the mouth and root canals, and follows correct protocol. I did, it saved my life .Mercury is Poisonous.There is NO safe form of Mercury in living tissue.The mercury vapor from dental amalgam alone is a bigger source than all the other sources together. U151 identifies mercury as a toxic waste.Mercury is also recovered from discarded products and wastes such aschlor-alkali wastes, dental amalgams, fluorescent light tubes, electronicdevices, and others. The mercury is vaporized in a retort and collected bycondensation. Condensed mercury is then distilled to remove impurities.* The Environmental Protection Agency is working to reduce the amount ofmercury in the environment http://www.ehs.ucsf.edu/Manuals/CSM/Csm_Chapter9.htm 17. DENTAL AMALGAMDental amalgams are mixtures of mercury with silver tin alloy. Cal-EPAregulates them as ***chemical waste.*** Submit Chemical Waste Removal Form for its disposal. >If you watch and read carefully, you will see her accuse anyone >who does not agree with all her views (uneducated as they may be) of being >a >liar. A total repeated lie. The lies are from the posters own words, and has nothing whatsoever to do with disagreeing. Lies are rampant here. When they are told and I ask for proof, Dr Steve, among others have NO proof. You just saw an example of how Steve lies above. >When that does not get enough attention, she will resort to calling >people "heifer", "Jew-boy", Atheist, queer, etc. Her behavior is certainly >not civil nor compassionate. I am not here for attention, as far as the above, yes if needed I do stand up to ridiculous posters. It should also be noted, Dr Steve says W_B is a nice guy. While he speaks of Slat Lake City Landfill. States it's a damn shame I didn't die. and Well said, mf, well said. I have been called many names. In fact from Sr Steve himself. Dr Steve <nos...@home.net> wrote: > >> I stay out of the Crohn's discussion with her since there obviously > >> would be little sense trying. But, always notice she is nice to all of > >> us. You cannot say that about the three headed hydra. >If you read exactly what her claims are in regard to amalgam toxicity, you >will find that her claims do not make scientific sense. Steve has NOT one single study proving the safety of amalgams, in fact they have never been FDA approved. > She claims to have >been healed of neurological defects during the time that her bodily mercury >levels would have been at their highest. No that what Dr Steve claims, I claimed. He has been asked to show proof of this claim, he has none, but still repeats this lie. NOWHERE did I ever say I was cured of anything. <snip more lies> >Even those individuals who would like to see amalgam banned from use, find >her posting methods and refusal to discuss any topics despicable. Proof of that lie is above. >Please recognize that there are far more people sensitive to Penicillin, >latex, peanuts, and even to bananas than there are people sensitive to >dental amalgam and the metals it contains. None of those materials have >been banned, nor will they be banned in the future. Totally irrelevant. Amalgams is the subject. We already have partial bans, for very good reason. The truth is mercury is being eliminated in ALL forms, dentists are the biggest polluters and care not about the enviroment. The reason for this post, is Dr Steve got caught in his own trap. After stating his many lies it is HE who refuses to discuss and can't answer my questons. Jan "I don't feel comfortable using a substance designated by the Environmental Protection Agency to be a waste disposal hazard. I can't throw it in the trash, bury it in the ground, or put it in a landfill, but they say it is OK to put it in people's mouths. That doesn't make sense." - Richard. Fischer, D.D.S." > .. > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > ``````````````````````` <snip> >And, I have >been reading stories of other people whose problems could not be diagnosed >and they got better after the tooth was removed. That kind of speaks for >itself also, don't you think? Anecdotes do not constitute credible scientific research and evidence. In a word, no. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>And, I have >>been reading stories of other people whose problems could not be diagnosed >>and they got better after the tooth was removed. That kind of speaks for >>itself also, don't you think? > > Anecdotes do not constitute credible scientific research and evidence. Please do show us the SCIENTIFIC PROOF for the safety of both root canals and the safety of amalgams. In a word there is NONE. > In a word, no. > -- > > W_B > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com For many years (maybe even now) endodontics has either not been taught well or has not been learned well by many general dentists. It may not be brain surgery, but it is not to be taken lightly. If it is done right, there are rarely any significant complications and the teeth are saved for many years and often a lifetime. If it is done poorly, there usually are complications and the patient would often be better served with an implant. Listening to some advice on the internet (or even in your normal life) can be filled with lies and misinformation. It may be offered with the best intentions yet be filled with ignorance. It also may be offered to scam you into something that you will live to regret. The dentists here have no vested interests in your treatment. We offer the most reliable advice that is possible with the information given. When people start listening to posters with no dental training or expertise what-so-ever, it is somewhat irritating. Kind of like having a patient in the chair that says, "Aunt Mable says I should have all my teeth extracted because 'bad teeth' run in our family". Dartos > There is no need to get snippy. I was simply asking a question. And the > reason it makes sense is that I never had any of these problems until after I > was root canaled. It just all seems pretty coincidental to me. And, I have > been reading stories of other people whose problems could not be diagnosed > and they got better after the tooth was removed. That kind of speaks for > itself also, don't you think? > For many years (maybe even now) endodontics has either not been > taught well or has not been learned well by many general dentists. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > The dentists here have no vested interests in your treatment. We offer > the most reliable advice that is possible with the information given. What a hoot. The dentists here are reporting what they were taught by *organized dentisty* L I A R S. > When people start listening to posters with no dental training or > expertise what-so-ever, it is somewhat irritating. That would be misleading, just as YOU were taught! ONCE AGAIN, read WHO wrote the websites, NOT who posted them. > Kind of like having a patient in the chair that says, "Aunt Mable > says I should have all my teeth extracted because 'bad teeth' run > in our family". > > Dartos http://www.toothwisdom.net/r.root_canals.html http://www.integratedhealthpractice.com/treatment.asp#Root ll root cancel fillings have the potential to casue bad health. This is because, althought the nerve has been removed, bacteria still colonise in the minute tubules of a tooth. These bacteria produce toxins which enter the body causing potential harm. An area of residual infection which is left under the gum, usually following, but sometimes a long time after an extraction can cause problems. Symptoms can be coincided with the energetic links to the body as well as localised problems. http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/RCTframeset.htm http://www.ericdavisdental.com/root_canals.htm http://www.whale.to/d/root2.html http://www.drshankland.com/rootcanal.html http://webpages.charter.net/kyarbrough/rootcanals.htm http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm http://www.cfsn.com/maz/ http://cnorman.best.vwh.net/blazing/dental.html http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/root_therapies.htm http://zap.intergate.ca/root.html http://www.dentistryholistic.com/education.html http://www.hugnet.com/Root_Canals.html http://www.karlloren.com/ultrasound/p25.htm http://www.hallvtox.dircon.co.uk/hallvt.html Root Canals. A tooth has miles of tiny canals running through the root. A dead or root filled tooth will have bacteria in these canals. There is no way of removing the bacteria once they are in there. http://www.toothwisdom.net/ Toxicity from Root Canals The next subject to be discussed are root canals and their possible source of toxicity. Approximately twenty five million Americans undergo root canal therapy every year in an effort to prevent the loss of teeth that have abscessed. The root canal is the left portion of the tooth which houses the vital organs such as the nerve and blood vessels. The dentist endeavors to clean and sterilize this canal and fill it with a sterile, non toxic inert material. This usually renders this tooth serviceable and non painful; however, the entire inner hard core of the tooth is made of dentin which has several million dentinal tubules. These tubules allow the circulation of lymphatic type fluid to circulate from the vital organs of the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This is a viable circulatory phenomenon which has a purpose. It services the periodontal ligament as well as the sensory aspect of the nerve and blood centers in the root canal. If the body chemistry is healthy, the flow of lymphatic fluid is from the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This creates an irrigation for the tooth and usually prevents the accumulation of plaque to form. When the body chemistry is not healthy, then the circulation is from the outside of the tooth to the inner root canal. This allows for no irrigation, but rather an accumulation of plaque to form. There are many more reasons for maintaining the integrity of the circulation in the dentinal tubules. Root canal therapy completely destroys this integrity, and what happens to the non-circulating fluid in these tubules? This fluid as it ages becomes stagnant and becomes a toxic substance. This porous structure now becomes a septic mass emanating poisons into the body. Is this what you want? Mercury amalgams are said to be the caskets of the body. Root canals are said to be the cadavers of the body. I do not recommend root canals for anyone. Each individual has a right to their decisions. Many people simply do not wish to lose a member of their body. I respect this, and I always discuss the consequences. The next area of discussion is whether the root canal filling actually sterilizes the apical end of the tooth. There are so many lateral canals at the root end of the tooth where bacteria can harbor that it is unlikely that a complete aseptic condition exists. This, however, is a debateable subject. Again, the complete acceptance of root canal therapy as a viable substitution for extraction is completely and whole heartedly supported by organized dentistry. You are in violation of the code of ethics if you speak out against root canal therapy. When I was a practicing dentist, I always let the patient make that decision after explaining all pros and cons. FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: >California Judge Approves Landmark Warning on Mercury Use in Dentistry. >(San Francisco, CA) - For the first time anywhere, dentists will be >required to post a warning about the dangers of mercury in their dental >fillings. A California Superior court judge finalized the language for >the warning to be posted in dentists' offices here today. >The warning will read as follows: >Notice to Patients, Proposition 65: >Warning on dental amalgams, used in many dental fillings, causes exposure >to mercury, a chemical known to the state of California to cause birth >defects or other reproductive harm. >Root canal treatments and restorations including fillings, crowns and >bridges, use chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer. >The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has studied the situation and >approved for use all dental restorative materials. >Consult your dentist to determine which materials are appropriate for your >treatment. >The exact language of the warning was argued and then finalized before >Superior Court Judge James A. Robertson II between the California Dental [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >mercury dental fillings and root canals. The agreement also allows non-CDA >dentists to opt in to the agreement and post the warning. >The warning is the result of a lawsuit filed by The Law Offices of Shawn >Khorrami on behalf of As You Sow, a not-for-profit foundation dedicated to >advocacy and activism in the public interest. >"This is the first admission by organized dentistry that amalgams pose a >potential health risk," says Shawn Khorrami, lead attorney. "The only >problem is that it's about 100 years too late." >This California consent judgment follows on the heels of recent lawsuits >filed in Georgia, Texas, Ohio and Los Angeles, California charging that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >risks to certain users. Mercury, a highly toxic substance, is the most >widely used substance in dental fillings today. >The use of mercury-based thimerosal in vaccines also has been the source >of the recent controversy in the Homeland Security legislation. >Khorrami filed the lawsuit against Roger Fieldman D.D.S., Inc., the >Citadel Dental Group, Inc. dental offices, dental laboratories and >private dental schools and training programs with more than nine >employees. The suit won the enforcement of Proposition 65, Safe Drinking >Water and Toxics Enforcement Act [Health & Safety Code § 25249.6]. >Proposition 65 requires that a clear and reasonable warning be provided to >persons prior to their exposure to a chemical known to cause cancer or >reproductive harm. This statute lists mercury, contained in dental >amalgam, as a substance that can cause reproductive toxicity. The lawsuit >was based on the absence of warnings to patients treated with amalgam >restorative materials in dental offices. >The judgment on Proposition 65 mandates that all dental offices with more >than nine employees provide warnings on the dangers of Mercury dental >fillings to patients. Those in non-compliance could incur a fine of up to >$2,500 per day. >Press may contact: Jackie Gladfelter at 650-218-1856 or D. Infusino at >415-225-7970; call Attorney Shawn Khorrami at 818-947-5111. >### Jan >> There is no need to get snippy. I was simply asking a question. And the >> reason it makes sense is that I never had any of these problems until [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> and they got better after the tooth was removed. That kind of speaks for >> itself also, don't you think? > For many years (maybe even now) endodontics has either not been > taught well or has not been learned well by many general dentists. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If it is done poorly, there usually are complications and the patient > would often be better served with an implant. That may be, but why does the patient have to end up with either a ($$$$) root canal, or a ($$$$) implant (which also can become infected with complicaions). How about just extracting the tooth and cleaning out the bone, option #3. It's amazing the even most OS's don't seem to be able to even do #3 or diagnose any condition that won't lead to a root canal or implant. > The dentists here have no vested interests in your treatment. We offer > the most reliable advice that is possible with the information given. Dentistry is a business, like any other, not to mention the legal liability, for supposedly "safe" and widely practiced dental methods. And by the way, this issue is very controversial with state board harassment of dentists who do not follow the "party line". Some of this issues are even being fought out in court right now. YOur characterization of one camp of learned professionals vs a group of crazy patients is disingenous to the extreme. I'm not here to characterize the safety of root canal procedures, but please give the FTBW (follow the band wagon) argument a rest. > When people start listening to posters with no dental training or > expertise what-so-ever, it is somewhat irritating. > > Kind of like having a patient in the chair that says, "Aunt Mable > says I should have all my teeth extracted because 'bad teeth' run > in our family". The point here is that there is an infection that isn't being treated. (Seems to be another problem commonly associated with dentistry). By the way any ENT who says an infection that doesn't show up on a CAT scan can't be there is a moron. But why so defenisve all of a sudden about root canals. Shhhh, don't wake anybody up or threaten dentistries ($$$$) cash cow. Some say, bury things that are dead. Yu Don't prop up dead relatives but bury them. And don't put things that are dead back in your mouth, you bury them too. "Clinton" <clintonz@prodigy.net> wrote........... > Some say, bury things that are dead. Yu Don't prop up dead relatives > but bury them. And don't put things that are dead back in your mouth, > you bury them too. Dental Cemetary - by Stephen King carabelli > > For many years (maybe even now) endodontics has either not been > > taught well or has not been learned well by many general dentists. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the even most OS's don't seem to be able to even do #3 or diagnose > any condition that won't lead to a root canal or implant. Then what...you didn't finish the story. What happens after option #3? T >> > For many years (maybe even now) endodontics has either not been >> > taught well or has not been learned well by many general dentists. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > T Who knows, his posts get stranger and angrier all the time. I suppose you should clean out the socket with a high speed and see how fast you can blow a bunch of nasties into the fascial planes. Time to start blocking again I guess. carabelli > should clean out the socket with a high speed and see how fast you can blow > a bunch of nasties into the fascial planes. Time to start blocking again I > guess. Extracting a tooth and properly cleaning out the socket, and/or jawbone is foreign concept to you? The truth is it apparently is foreign concept to many dentists. >> should clean out the socket with a high speed and see how fast you can >> blow [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > jawbone is foreign concept to you? The truth is it > apparently is foreign concept to many dentists. Last response to you for the time being - but how many extractions have you watched that the socket wasn't curretted. Since you state most oral surgeons don't, I would have to assume this numbers in the 100's. Jeez this was first year curriculum. carabelli > Then what...you didn't finish the story. What happens after option #3? > > T I've had plenty of patients who are happy with option #3. But many aren't. I've never, ever chained a patient down and forced them to endure a root canal. Or a crown. Or an implant. May I be so bold as to guess you haven't either? Steve Signature{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Arial;}} {\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove "nospam" to reply\par } > > Then what...you didn't finish the story. What happens after option #3? > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Steve You may! I agree, some people are fine with option #3. I have many patients who have no molars and function quite well with bicuspid occlusion, but as you say, it isn't right for everyone. I just completed endo on a 34 year old woman whose child bonked her teeth with his apparently rock hard head. No discoloration, so we are hoping endo will be the end of things...but even if this patient had opted for "option #3", they are not prepared to go thru the next 50 years looking like an old time hockey player! T Gum de gum gum, gum de gum gum...GUM! Dartos > Then what...you didn't finish the story. What happens after option #3? > > T > Gum de gum gum, gum de gum gum...GUM! Ah, the sweet smell of methylmethacrylate ! After bogus sensitivity testing of course. Signature/ Amatus / > > Gum de gum gum, gum de gum gum...GUM! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> T > Gum de gum gum, gum de gum gum...GUM! Your name is Friday...you carry a McCall 13/14. Steve > Dartos > >> Then what...you didn't finish the story. What happens after option #3? >> >> T Signature{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Arial;}} {\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove "nospam" to reply\par } >> Gum de gum gum, gum de gum gum...GUM! > > Your name is Friday...you carry a McCall 13/14. Good one Signature/ Amatus / > >> Gum de gum gum, gum de gum gum...GUM! [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>> >>> T I really didn't mean to start any arguments about this stuff. I was just looking to see if anyone else had ever experienced what I am going through. Any way, I went back to the dentist on Wednesday just to see what he would sat this time. He still didn't have an answer for me and he was still suggesting that I get the teeth crowned. I told him once again that I really didn't want to spend $1,400 on something that just may have to be yanked out. He then sent me to an endodonist that same afternoon. The endodonist discovered that my dentist had somehow missed a canal. Now I have to go back to the endodonist next Wednesday to have the tooth redone. However, he had no answer for the dizziness and the light-headedness that I have been expereincing and told me that he may have to refer me to a neurologist. My dentist has agreed to pay for the endodonist treatment in the form of crediting those charges toward my crowns. That's all fine and dandy, but I have racked up about $4,000 in other doctors bills, testing, and lost wages. When my dentist called me the next day, he never even mentioned the missed canal. He just said that he didn't think it was fair for me to have to undergo another root canal and he was going to pay for the endodonist treatment. When I mentioned that I may have to see a neurologist he skirted that issue. I'll let you know what happens next. >> For many years (maybe even now) endodontics has either not been >> taught well or has not been learned well by many general dentists. [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >but bury them. And don't put things that are dead back in your mouth, >you bury them too. Sherry, I meant to mention, if you decide to get it pulled, be sure to go to an alternative/holistic dentist. They clean the bone. I had two jaw teeth pulled this week, while cleaning the bone, my dentist found a cavitation when a wisdom tooth had been some 40 years ago. I was filled with the fat and buttery looking substance that is described on Dr. Shankland website. God only knows how long it had been in there. Had it not been the fact that he cleaned the bone, it would not have been found. I have just recently lost 35 pounds and have had no energy and no appetite. I am eager to see how much better I will feel now that this is gone! Organized dentistry denies the fact that there is such a thing called cavitations, how very wrong they are! Good Luck, Jan >I really didn't mean to start any arguments about this stuff. I was just > looking to see if anyone else had ever experienced what I am going [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] >>but bury them. And don't put things that are dead back in your mouth, >>you bury them too. It's good to see that you are so well rounded and not just an amalgam basher. Maybe it was this that was making you sick...not the amalgam > Sherry, > [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > >>but bury them. And don't put things that are dead back in your mouth, > >>you bury them too. > Organized dentistry denies the fact that there is such a thing called > cavitations, how very wrong they are! > > Good Luck, > > Jan No one here would ever dispute the fact you have a hole in your head. T >> Organized dentistry denies the fact that there is such a thing called >> cavitations, how very wrong they are! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > T Thanks once again for your making fun, Tony. I meant to mention, if you decide to get it pulled, be sure to go to an alternative/holistic dentist. They clean the bone. I had two jaw teeth pulled this week, while cleaning the bone, my dentist found a cavitation when a wisdom tooth had been some 40 years ago. I was filled with the fat and buttery looking substance that is described on Dr. Shankland website. God only knows how long it had been in there. Had it not been the fact that he cleaned the bone, it would not have been found. I have just recently lost 35 pounds and have had no energy and no appetite. I am eager to see how much better I will feel now that this is gone! >>> Organized dentistry denies the fact that there is such a thing called >>> cavitations, how very wrong they are! [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >I meant to mention, if you decide to get it pulled, be sure to go to an >alternative/holistic dentist. They clean the bone. YUP, and we know we want clean bone. After all, dirty bone is a terrible thing. >I had two jaw teeth >pulled this week, while cleaning the bone, my dentist found a cavitation [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >35 pounds and have had no energy and no appetite. I am eager to see how much >better I will feel now that this is gone! >I meant to mention, No, you didn't mean to mention... you did mention it.. over and over again. What is with people on usenet who think that nobody will see their post so they post the same thing again and again. It's tedious and it's boring and it isn't going to make people love you or listen to you. Go away Miss Lollipop. And take Otis with you. Ann if you decide to get it pulled, be sure to go to an >alternative/holistic dentist. They clean the bone. I had two jaw teeth >pulled this week, while cleaning the bone, my dentist found a cavitation [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >35 pounds and have had no energy and no appetite. I am eager to see how much >better I will feel now that this is gone! >>I meant to mention, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Ann I beg you pardon, I mentioned it ONE time. Please STOP LYING. > if you decide to get it pulled, be sure to go to an >>alternative/holistic dentist. They clean the bone. I had two jaw teeth [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>much >>better I will feel now that this is gone! >>I meant to mention, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Ann REPLY Thanks Ann! > if you decide to get it pulled, be sure to go to an >>alternative/holistic dentist. They clean the bone. I had two jaw teeth [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>35 pounds and have had no energy and no appetite. I am eager to see how much >>better I will feel now that this is gone! Joel would like to thank you for lying. He loves it. He is a liar also. >>>I meant to mention, >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >>>much >>>better I will feel now that this is gone! >> Organized dentistry denies the fact that there is such a thing called >> cavitations, how very wrong they are! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >T Organized Dentistry? Is that anything like Organized Crime? Joel >> Organized dentistry denies the fact that there is such a thing called >> cavitations, how very wrong they are! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >T Good one ! -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > > Organized dentistry denies the fact that there is such a thing called > > cavitations, how very wrong they are! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > T Okay, Enough, Robert Tony WB. my leaking filling did a lot of damage to my jaw too and I emailed s Bornfeld the cat scan and he agreed the jaw was necrotic. yes Hg when it comes out enough it is a toxin and it can damage the bone and lead to strange problems, such as bone infection, cavitations whatever you want to call it. I had an OS make the the comment to me about the "hole in the head" before I got a cat scan showing the jaw had eroded, and that was AFTER he did an extraction at the local site near where the "leaky" filling had been placed about 20 years earilier and the ignoramous himself wrote "bone is very soft but not indicative of any disease" Furthermore "cavitations are real". I know someone who had surgery done by a Univeraity reseacrch deptartment in the South and they even noted extensive infections with areas that were apparently cavitations. there are even citations in recent research papers from NIH. How you can go an entire career career in dentistry and not encounter some of these problems i don't know but maybe you truly are ignorant or you just don't want to know. Either way you and other dentists like you are a danger to their patients whether you realize it or not. >>>Organized dentistry denies the fact that there is such a thing called >>>cavitations, how very wrong they are! [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > and lead to strange problems, such as bone infection, cavitations > whatever you want to call it. Whoa--I doubt very much I said it was necrotic. I am cetainly not experienced enough in reading CAT scans to make a judgement of that kind. I do remember the x-ray looking messy though. I will not make the jump and judge exactly what it is that I saw. I simply do not believe I have the standing to say that. Steve > I had an OS make the the comment to me about the "hole in the > head" before I got a cat scan showing the jaw had eroded, and that [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > you and other dentists like you are a danger to their patients > whether you realize it or not. SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > Whoa--I doubt very much I said it was necrotic. I am cetainly not > experienced enough in reading CAT scans to make a judgement of that kind. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Steve You are correct, i confused that with what another local Oral surgeon said (who I never went to). here is what you did say. (I only post it because there is nothing in your comments unfit for anyone to see and you made clear you were not an expert in CT interpretation): "I have no training in the reading of CAT scans. However, I do see the swelling in what I assume to be your left maxillary sinus. The full-skull scan certainly seems to indicate very serious bone destruction of the maxilla. As I do not interpret these kinds of scans I cannot tell how much overlap of the sinus on the image accounts for what looks like a major loss of bone. If I am interpreting this correctly, I must assume there is a very significant defect, and wonder if you have had any kind of reconstructive surgery" -endquote. To everyone: That area was very near the "leaky" filling by the way and I even had high levels of copper in my blood right before removal. I just want to make clear to everybody that Jan's having Hg problems and then bone infection is not fantasy land, but the two are very closely connected and it does happen to a number of people even if it doesn't affect most people. This is very real. CZ >> Whoa--I doubt very much I said it was necrotic. I am cetainly not >> experienced enough in reading CAT scans to make a judgement of that kind. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > CZ Thank you, Clinton. Isn't it a pity the dentists here feel the need to make fun of others suffering, even after I said, I had recently lost 35 pounds. This is despicable. I hope they feel good about themselves, it certainly doesn't speak well for the profession or lack of. Jan >Thank you, Clinton. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Jan Steve Bornfeld is always a gentleman ....... He is indeed, but you are still stupid. >>Thank you, Clinton. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Steve Bornfeld is always a gentleman ....... > He is indeed, but you are still stupid. and you wonder why we make light of your suffering. >> He is indeed, but you are still stupid. >> > and you wonder why we make light of your suffering. You are looking for an excuse, Tony. There is none. Have a good day, hope you feel really good about yourself. > >> He is indeed, but you are still stupid. > >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Have a good day, hope you feel really good about yourself. of course calling someone stupid would never be considered abuse. Or was that a lie? > >> He is indeed, but you are still stupid. > >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Have a good day, hope you feel really good about yourself. You may the most wonderful person when people meet you face to face, but here you have been most unpleasant, which makes me wonder why it would surprise you that people have little sympathy for you. If a dog runs up and bites me, I am not going to feel bad if it breaks a tooth in the process. I don't like your online persona one bit. You have irritated me many times by accusing me of being a liar, by questioning my abilities to raise children, by accusing me of deliberately trying to harm my patients, and by making judgments about my character simply because we don't agree on a dental subject. If people here hurt your feelings by making light of your plight, I say GOOD! Perhaps it will teach you something about casting such vile at others. I have a feeling that lesson is lost on you. I do feel really good about myself because I know the quality of my character. All I know about you is the angry, hateful person that I see here and wonder how YOU can feel good about being that person. I like what I see in the mirror. Based on the hate you spew here, I doubt you can honestly say the same thing. T >You have irritated me many times by >accusing me of being a liar, by questioning my abilities to raise children, >by accusing me of deliberately trying to harm my patients, and by making >judgments about my character simply because we don't agree on a dental >subject. That is because Jan Drew is a pious Christian who respects the Ten Commandments. Not!! Jan Drew's favorite line in the bible is "Judge not, lest you be judged". Instead of taking responsibility for her *own* judging she looks at others who judge as she likely will in response to my post. Jan Drew is a hypocrite of biblical proportions. And nearly every day of her life she proves it by her posts on usenet. Aloha, Rich PS: Cue Jan to start a new thread attacking me. Just watch. >> >> He is indeed, but you are still stupid. >> >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > by > accusing me of being a liar, I have ONLY accused you of being a liar when you actually LIED and you very well know it. by questioning my abilities to raise children, > by accusing me of deliberately trying to harm my patients, That is a BLATANT REPEATED LIE. You stated it previously, and been asked to prove it and you can NOT!!!!! I have NEVER accused you of either one!!!! and by making > judgments about my character simply because we don't agree on a dental > subject. If people here hurt your feelings by making light of your plight, > I > say GOOD! How very nice of you. You need to remember what goes around comes around. You also might want to keep in mind, this is neither professional, nor moral. Perhaps it will teach you something about casting such vile at > others. I have a feeling that lesson is lost on you. You mean, like YOU just did? It doesn't get much more despicable than making fun of others' suffering > I do feel really good about myself because I know the quality of my > character. I would say someone is deceiving you. Perhaps you would like to take this post to you minister? All I know about you is the angry, hateful person that I see here > and wonder how YOU can feel good about being that person. I like what I > see [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > T What hate would that be, Tony? Saying Joel is stupid? We all know his posts are stupid and filled with lies. That's not hatred, it is the truth! You talk out of both sides of your mouth! Tony Bad Apr 18, 6:59 pm Please don't misunderstand me Jan, I am not making fun of your illness, I am not convinced you are or were as sick as you claim. Even if one fell really hard and bumped their head causing them to lose a good portion of their reasoning ability, and bought into the existence of all three of these malady's, the odds of YOU or any one being being sickened by all three would seem very high...so high in fact...I would have a hard time believing it to be true without more definitive proof than you have ever offered here. Remain in denial if you wish. I can assure you mercury *poisoning* makes one VERY VERY ill. I guess you think losing 25 pounds and having no energy is *fun* Perhaps a bone disease caused by God knows what, doesn't phase you either. We wouldn't want to disturb your little world. You have a lot to learn, Tony. No doubt Richard H Jacobson cyberstalker will follow this post with his usual lies. Then he will say, cue Jan to attack me, right after he gets done attacking. Just is case, he just posted this on MHA Rich.@.> wrote in message news:nke8l1thmc154upg9rbngbfbc4546kqrtm@4ax.com... Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Judge not lest you be judged. >You also might want to keep in mind, this is neither professional, nor >moral. >Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. >Judge not lest you be judged > You need to remember what goes around comes around. Perhaps this is why you have been cursed with such poor health! T |
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