Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / September 2006
Root canal w/ serious problems
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Sherry - 08 Oct 2005 21:38 GMT About 4 months ago I began the root canal process. I was put on an antibiotic on Friday afternoon and was drilled on Monday morning. Is this enough time to allow the infection to go away? I questioned them and they said the antibiotics would start to work immediately. Anyway, he placed temporary fillings in 2 teeth that were right next to each other - upper left bicuspid and a molar. I was told that I would have some pain for a couple of days. I was told to continue my antibiotic and was also put on Ibuprofen 800mg for pain. My appointment for the rest of the root canal was scheduled to be done in two weeks. The pain did not go away in a couple of days. I was scheduled to go to New York the weekend before my next appointment to finish the root canal. I called the dentist's office and told them that it had been a week and a half and I was still experiencing pain, that I was to go to NYC that weekend, and I did not want to have any problems with my teeth at that time. I was then told that sometimes the pain would last as long as two weeks. I went on my trip and was miserable! The pain would really flare up when I rode the subway ( I am guessing that it was due to all the jostling) .
I went to have the root canal done on that Wednesday after my trip. I told him that I was still having pain. He shot me up about three times with novacaine and waited til he thought I was numb. He began to place the rubber dam over my teeth. I stopped him and told him that I could really feel that. He shot me up a couple of more times. Shouldn't the pain associated with just the placement of the rubber dam have tipped him off that maybe something wasn't right? He began drilling and I could feel a little pain, which was bearable, and a lot of pressure. I just assumed that this was normal. Then he irrigated the tooth. When he did this, I could feel cold, bleachy tasting liquid go up into my cheek and swish around all the way up to my eye. Again, I thought this was normal or maybe just a sensation from the novacaine. After the procedure was finished, he refilled my antibiotic and wrote me an Rx for Vicodan.
My face was a little puffy that night, but just assumed that it was normal due to the trauma of what had been done. The next day it was still puffy. However, on Friday morning it was very swollen. I didn't call the dentist, I just stopped in, unannounced, and asked if this was normal. He took one look at me and said, "Oh, my!" He then wrote me another Rx for a different antibiotic and told me to take it conjunction with the one I was already taking and told me to stop in on Monday morning. Saturday morning when I woke, my face was swollen all the way up to and around my eye. When I bent over to pick up some dirty clothes a bunch of rusty colored liquid came running out of my nose. I spent the rest of the day with my head hanging over the edge of the bed trying to drain all that crap out of my face. I felt a little better the next day and the swelling had gone down some. When I got to his office on Monday, I told he what had happened and told him that I was concerned about having infection spread to my brain. He didn't look all that concerned. He put me on a Medrol Dose Pack (oral steriod) to take with my antibiotics.
I went back to see him every Friday for the next month. He took an x-ray each time I said that I was still experiencing pain. All he ever said was, "The x-rays look okay." He would occassionally change my antibiotic. On one of my Friday visits he told me that the problem was that the roots of my molar had grown into my sinuses. Couldn't he see this on the very first x- ray he took before any work was performed? On my last visit to him he told me that he needed to cap the teeth as I "was compromising the integrity of my teeth." I told him that I was reluctant to have any more work done at this time due to all the pain that I was having. He told me to make an appointment to come in in two weeks to have the work finished. I went to the receptionist and told her that he wanted me back in two weeks, but to schedule it for four weeks to allow the pain to go away. They always want at least half of the payment up front, which in this case was $840, and I didn't have it and that I would be able to come up with the money in a month as opposed to two weeks.
After two weeks after my last visit to the dentist, my pain still had not subsided and I went to a medical doctor. I told him that I was experiencing dizziness, light-headedness, loss of balance, loss of concentration, itchy rash that would turn into pustuales (pimple like), burning sensation behind my left eye, tingling in my left cheek that would radiate up and around my head, pain under my cheek bone, and that I suspected that I may have something systemic because I did not feel right. He ordered blood work and a CAT scan of my sinuses. Both came back negative and I was told to see a specialist.
I went a couple of weeks ago to see an ENT. He basically laughed at me since nothing showed up on my CAT scan. He told me the pain was coming from my tooth. I asked how that could be when the roots are supposedly dead. He said that wasn't a dentist. He said that the CAT scan did show that I have a deviated septum and a prominent nasal spur and the spur could cause headaches. I told him that I guess that I have always had that spur and I had very rarely experienced headaches. He told me that I should go back to the dentist and have him cap my teeth.
I am at a loss as to what to do next. No one seems concerned about my symptoms and I am beginning to get more than a little worried. I believe that he filled my teeth with gutta-percha, which I have recently discovered contains approximately 5% mercury. Could I have mercury poisoning? I have also learned that oxygen deprived bacteria continue to live inside that tooth and can leach out making you sick. Why doen't dentists recognize this even with documentation?
Any advise would be greatly appreciated. I don't like the fact that my dentist wanted to continue the root cnal work even though I insisted that I was still in pain.
Steven Bornfeld - 08 Oct 2005 22:13 GMT > About 4 months ago I began the root canal process. I was put on an > antibiotic on Friday afternoon and was drilled on Monday morning. Is this [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > dentist wanted to continue the root cnal work even though I insisted that I > was still in pain. That's a lot of questions. There is no way I can answer specifically to your situation. Unfortunately it is not rare to start a root canal and to stir up a hornets nest--a chronic low-grade infection can go acute. In this situation it can be far more difficult or even impossible to achieve good anesthesia. Doing the root canal should eliminate the infection, but sometimes some infected material can be forced up past the tip of the roots and cause an infection similar to what you've had. I am slightly concerned that from your description your dentist MAY have irrigated some fluid past the tip of the root. This can cause a very florid and occasionally serious reaction in itself. My advice is that you have an endodontist (root canal specialist) have a look at the tooth, and tell him/her everything you've written here. BTW, gutta percha contains no mercury--at least no gutta percha I've ever seen. It is latex, and some barium salts are mixed in to make it visible on x-ray.
Steve
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Sherry - 08 Oct 2005 22:54 GMT >> About 4 months ago I began the root canal process. I was put on an >> antibiotic on Friday afternoon and was drilled on Monday morning. Is this [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >Steve Thank you for the advice. I am just sick of feeling like this.
Jacob - 08 Oct 2005 23:09 GMT I would agree: you should see an endodontist, who is a root canal specialist. Infections can last longer that we'd like, and it's possible that is what you have. It's impossible to really give you any advice without examining you and knowing your age and health history, but a specialist should be able to see what's what. I would tell your dentist you are doing this and request a copy of all the x-rays he's taken, so that the endodontist can see how things have progressed and see how that compares with the current situation. Be assured that eventually most all infections do resolve. Good luck!
> About 4 months ago I began the root canal process. I was put on an > antibiotic on Friday afternoon and was drilled on Monday morning. Is this [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > dentist wanted to continue the root cnal work even though I insisted that I > was still in pain. Bill - 09 Oct 2005 01:36 GMT I agree you should definitely see an endodontist. I am very surprised that your dentist suggested a crown for the tooth while you were still having pain. By the way... change dentists.
>I would agree: you should see an endodontist, who is a root canal > specialist. Infections can last longer that we'd like, and it's possible [quoted text clipped - 160 lines] > I >> was still in pain. Sherry - 09 Oct 2005 02:25 GMT I was a bit taken back when he wanted to proceed with the crowns, too. That was the last time that I went to him and I don't think that I will go back to him. I think there is something fishy going on over there. My sister goes to the same place but has a different dentist. She just paid $2,500 for a bridge two weeks ago that they want to drill through now.
>I agree you should definitely see an endodontist. I am very surprised that >your dentist suggested a crown for the tooth while you were still having [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> I >>> was still in pain. USC95 - 09 Oct 2005 07:27 GMT I wouldn't worrry about gutta percha being toxic... sounds more like combination of persisitent infection and possiblity of sodium hypochlorite used to clean the canal going past the apex of root. That can cause severe rxn but usually will go away by itself... you should see an endodontist for consultand wait on the crowns for now.
Joel M. Eichen - 09 Oct 2005 10:59 GMT >I wouldn't worrry about gutta percha being toxic... sounds more like >combination of persisitent infection and possiblity of sodium >hypochlorite used to clean the canal going past the apex of root. That >can cause severe rxn but usually will go away by itself... you should >see an endodontist for consultand wait on the crowns for now. Actually everything is toxic ... .depending on the dose!
dr shad j lewis (via google) - 10 Oct 2005 05:25 GMT Water is even toxic - in large doses, it causes drowning!
LadyLollipop - 10 Oct 2005 06:24 GMT > Water is even toxic - in large doses, it causes drowning! The subject is NOT water.
Irrelevant!
Sorry, I missed this. I haven't been reading this group.
http://www.toothwisdom.net/r.root_canals.html
http://www.integratedhealthpractice.com/treatment.asp#Root
ll root cancel fillings have the potential to casue bad health. This is because, althought the nerve has been removed, bacteria still colonise in the minute tubules of a tooth. These bacteria produce toxins which enter the body causing potential harm. An area of residual infection which is left under the gum, usually following, but sometimes a long time after an extraction can cause problems. Symptoms can be coincided with the energetic links to the body as well as localised problems.
http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/RCTframeset.htm
http://www.ericdavisdental.com/root_canals.htm
http://www.whale.to/d/root2.html
http://www.drshankland.com/rootcanal.html
http://webpages.charter.net/kyarbrough/rootcanals.htm
http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm
http://www.cfsn.com/maz/
http://cnorman.best.vwh.net/blazing/dental.html
http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm
http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/root_therapies.htm
http://zap.intergate.ca/root.html
http://www.dentistryholistic.com/education.html
http://www.hugnet.com/Root_Canals.html
http://www.karlloren.com/ultrasound/p25.htm
http://www.hallvtox.dircon.co.uk/hallvt.html
Root Canals. A tooth has miles of tiny canals running through the root. A dead or root filled tooth will have bacteria in these canals. There is no way of removing the bacteria once they are in there.
http://www.toothwisdom.net/
Toxicity from Root Canals
The next subject to be discussed are root canals and their possible source of toxicity. Approximately twenty five million Americans undergo root canal therapy every year in an effort to prevent the loss of teeth that have abscessed. The root canal is the left portion of the tooth which houses the vital organs such as the nerve and blood vessels. The dentist endeavors to clean and sterilize this canal and fill it with a sterile, non toxic inert material. This usually renders this tooth serviceable and non painful; however, the entire inner hard core of the tooth is made of dentin which has several million dentinal tubules. These tubules allow the circulation of lymphatic type fluid to circulate from the vital organs of the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This is a viable circulatory phenomenon which has a purpose. It services the periodontal ligament as well as the sensory aspect of the nerve and blood centers in the root canal. If the body chemistry is healthy, the flow of lymphatic fluid is from the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This creates an irrigation for the tooth and usually prevents the accumulation of plaque to form. When the body chemistry is not healthy, then the circulation is from the outside of the tooth to the inner root canal. This allows for no irrigation, but rather an accumulation of plaque to form. There are many more reasons for maintaining the integrity of the circulation in the dentinal tubules. Root canal therapy completely destroys this integrity, and what happens to the non-circulating fluid in these tubules? This fluid as it ages becomes stagnant and becomes a toxic substance. This porous structure now becomes a septic mass emanating poisons into the body. Is this what you want? Mercury amalgams are said to be the caskets of the body. Root canals are said to be the cadavers of the body.
I do not recommend root canals for anyone. Each individual has a right to their decisions. Many people simply do not wish to lose a member of their body. I respect this, and I always discuss the consequences.
The next area of discussion is whether the root canal filling actually sterilizes the apical end of the tooth. There are so many lateral canals at the root end of the tooth where bacteria can harbor that it is unlikely that a complete aseptic condition exists. This, however, is a debateable subject. Again, the complete acceptance of root canal therapy as a viable substitution for extraction is completely and whole heartedly supported by organized dentistry. You are in violation of the code of ethics if you speak out against root canal therapy. When I was a practicing dentist, I always let the patient make that decision after explaining all pros and cons.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
>California Judge Approves Landmark Warning on Mercury Use in Dentistry.
>(San Francisco, CA) - For the first time anywhere, dentists will be >required to post a warning about the dangers of mercury in their dental >fillings. A California Superior court judge finalized the language for >the warning to be posted in dentists' offices here today.
>The warning will read as follows:
>Notice to Patients, Proposition 65:
>Warning on dental amalgams, used in many dental fillings, causes exposure >to mercury, a chemical known to the state of California to cause birth >defects or other reproductive harm.
>Root canal treatments and restorations including fillings, crowns and >bridges, use chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer.
>The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has studied the situation and >approved for use all dental restorative materials.
>Consult your dentist to determine which materials are appropriate for your >treatment.
>The exact language of the warning was argued and then finalized before >Superior Court Judge James A. Robertson II between the California Dental [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >mercury dental fillings and root canals. The agreement also allows non-CDA >dentists to opt in to the agreement and post the warning.
>The warning is the result of a lawsuit filed by The Law Offices of Shawn >Khorrami on behalf of As You Sow, a not-for-profit foundation dedicated to >advocacy and activism in the public interest.
>"This is the first admission by organized dentistry that amalgams pose a >potential health risk," says Shawn Khorrami, lead attorney. "The only >problem is that it's about 100 years too late."
>This California consent judgment follows on the heels of recent lawsuits >filed in Georgia, Texas, Ohio and Los Angeles, California charging that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >risks to certain users. Mercury, a highly toxic substance, is the most >widely used substance in dental fillings today.
>The use of mercury-based thimerosal in vaccines also has been the source >of the recent controversy in the Homeland Security legislation.
>Khorrami filed the lawsuit against Roger Fieldman D.D.S., Inc., the >Citadel Dental Group, Inc. dental offices, dental laboratories and >private dental schools and training programs with more than nine >employees. The suit won the enforcement of Proposition 65, Safe Drinking >Water and Toxics Enforcement Act [Health & Safety Code § 25249.6].
>Proposition 65 requires that a clear and reasonable warning be provided to >persons prior to their exposure to a chemical known to cause cancer or >reproductive harm. This statute lists mercury, contained in dental >amalgam, as a substance that can cause reproductive toxicity. The lawsuit >was based on the absence of warnings to patients treated with amalgam >restorative materials in dental offices.
>The judgment on Proposition 65 mandates that all dental offices with more >than nine employees provide warnings on the dangers of Mercury dental >fillings to patients. Those in non-compliance could incur a fine of up to >$2,500 per day.
>Press may contact: Jackie Gladfelter at 650-218-1856 or D. Infusino at >415-225-7970; call Attorney Shawn Khorrami at 818-947-5111.
>### Jan
USC95 - 10 Oct 2005 07:18 GMT I agree. Organized dentistry should not shut people up for speaking thier opinion. Even if that person is a wackjob. There should be some discussion.
Joel M. Eichen - 10 Oct 2005 12:25 GMT >I agree. Organized dentistry should not shut people up for speaking >thier opinion. Even if that person is a wackjob. There should be some >discussion. That is the role of newsgroups ......
Joel M. Eichen - 10 Oct 2005 12:24 GMT >The subject is NOT water. > >Irrelevant! > >Sorry, I missed this. I haven't been reading this group. REPLY
My prayers answered!
Sherry - 11 Oct 2005 22:07 GMT Thanks to everyone who replied to my post. I have an appointment with the dentist tomorrow morning to have him once again check on the teeth that he root canaled. I will have him refer me to an endodontist.
I have done some research on my own over the weekend and did read about some of the stuff that LadyLollipop was referring to. I was reading about Weston Price and his theories on focal infection and the toxicities caused by bacterial poisons left in the tubules leaching out causing sickness and disease. From a medical standpoint, this makes extreme sense. The dentist certainly never discussed any of this with me! I had no clue things could get out of hand from a tooth. I may have opted for just having the thing pulled, which also was never discussed.
All I know is that ever since I had the root canals done four months ago I just haven't felt the same. I am tired all of the time and have no energy, along with everything else that I stated in my first post. Also, over the weekend the side of my face, from my eye down to my ear, was very sore. If I touched beside my ear I could feel pressure that went directly to the tooth. My eyelid would twitch a lot and the tingling went down to my bottom lip.
I will let you know what the dentist says about my teeth after he examines them tomorrow. If he looks at the x-ray and says that everything looks okay and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!!
>> Water is even toxic - in large doses, it causes drowning! > [quoted text clipped - 182 lines] > >Jan Amatus Cremona - 11 Oct 2005 23:06 GMT >of the stuff that Lad{ }op was referring to. I was reading about Weston > Price and his theories on focal infection and the toxicities caused by [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > get out of hand from a tooth. I may have opted for just having the thing > pulled, which also was never discussed. That particular study was proven wrong in 1923. Forget about it.
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Amatus
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> Thanks to everyone who replied to my post. I have an appointment with the > dentist tomorrow morning to have him once again check on the teeth that he [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > okay > and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! Sherry - 11 Oct 2005 23:49 GMT Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved it wrong?
>>of the stuff that Lad{ }op was referring to. I was reading about Weston >> Price and his theories on focal infection and the toxicities caused by [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> okay >> and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! Amatus Cremona - 12 Oct 2005 00:00 GMT > Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved it > wrong? The entire scientific community. Do you want your dental/medical care to based on one study done in 1918 that was proven wrong a few years later ?
If you prefer to listen to a retired day care worker rather than learned professionals, that is your prerogative. Have a nice day.
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Amatus
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> Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved it > wrong? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>> okay >>> and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! Sherry - 12 Oct 2005 00:33 GMT There is no need to get snippy. I was simply asking a question. And the reason it makes sense is that I never had any of these problems until after I was root canaled. It just all seems pretty coincidental to me. And, I have been reading stories of other people whose problems could not be diagnosed and they got better after the tooth was removed. That kind of speaks for itself also, don't you think?
>> Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved it >> wrong? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>>> okay >>>> and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! LadyLollipop - 12 Oct 2005 03:42 GMT > There is no need to get snippy. I was simply asking a question. And the > reason it makes sense is that I never had any of these problems until [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and they got better after the tooth was removed. That kind of speaks for > itself also, don't you think? AMEN!!
>>> Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved it >>> wrong? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>>>> okay >>>>> and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! Sdores - 12 Oct 2005 12:49 GMT First I am not a dentist but I do lurk here at times. If you can save this tooth, or any tooth, please save the tooth. I have crohn's and do to bleed outs and absorption issues I have five or six teeth left and will probably lose at least two more of them in the near future. The top has a full denture which isn't too bad for false teeth but on the bottom there is no suction to keep dentures/bridges in place. Save your teeth as long as you can, it will be worth it. Just my opinion. UM MOM Susan
> There is no need to get snippy. I was simply asking a question. And the > reason it makes sense is that I never had any of these problems until [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>>>> okay >>>>> and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! LadyLollipop - 12 Oct 2005 22:34 GMT > First I am not a dentist but I do lurk here at times. If you can save > this [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > suction to keep dentures/bridges in place. Save your teeth as long as you > can, it will be worth it. Just my opinion. UM MOM Susan http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm#treatment
Q: What is the worst treatment done by dentists?
A: While mercury is toxic and can do terrible things to nerve tissue, it does it slowly over decades. The treatment that can have the biggest and fastest impact on the body is root canal therapy. The idea of keeping a dead, infected organ in the body is only thought to be a good idea by dentists. A root canal-treated tooth always negatively affects your immune system.
http://www.integratedhealthpractice.com/treatment.asp#Root
All root cancel fillings have the potential to casue bad health. This is because, althought the nerve has been removed, bacteria still colonise in the minute tubules of a tooth. These bacteria produce toxins which enter the body causing potential harm.
An area of residual infection which is left under the gum, usually following, but sometimes a long time after an extraction can cause problems. Symptoms can be coincided with the energetic links to the body as well as localised problems.
http://www.toothwisdom.net/r.root_canals.html
ROOT CANALS A "root canal" is a procedure that a dentist uses to allow a patient to keep a dead tooth in his or her mouth. The fallacy with this concept is that the body doesn't like dead things in it and will try, sometimes desperately, to get rid of the dead thing. Notwithstanding, the fact that it may be "handy" to save a tooth for "dental convenience", it does not change the fact that root canal treatments can devastate the human immune system. "Root canals" cause:
1.. Suppression of the immune system 2.. The creation of an "interference field" on the meridian that the particular tooth is on (meridian - a channel of energy that flows between different tissues, organs and structures) . 3.. The production of the most toxic organic substance known to man.
Root-canal fillings can cause serious side effects. Dr. Weston price is recognized as the greatest researcher that the dental profession has ever produced. Dr. Price, after observing many patients with crippling degenerative diseases not responding to treatment, suspected infected root canal-filled teeth to be the cause. He then embarked on a 25 - year-long study to see if his suspicions were correct. This study was done during the first 3 decades of the 20th century! However this information was not shared with us when we were dental students so we had a big void in our dental education where root canals are concerned. Dr. Price devised a testing method which disclosed the presence of infection in a tooth which otherwise seemed to be healthy - that is, the implanting of the root canal filled tooth under the skin of a laboratory animal. He found that when the root-filled tooth of a patient with a degenerative disease was extracted and imbedded in an animal, that animal would develop the patient's disease. He did this in over 5000 animal studies and the results were consistent. In the beginning, Dr. Price did not know just where the infection was hiding in the tooth, only that a patient's illness was rapidly transferred from his root-filled tooth to laboratory animals in case after case. Dr. Price was able to culture the bacteria in root-filled teeth and trap their toxins, reproducing a disease in a rabbit by injecting the cultured material into the animal. Dr. Price discovered a wide variety of degenerative diseases to be transferable to rabbits, such as endocarditis and other heart diseases, kidney and bladder diseases, arthritis, rheumatism, mental diseases, lung problems, pregnancy complications, almost any degenerative problem - and after extraction of these teeth, a large percentage of patients recovered from their illnesses.
>> There is no need to get snippy. I was simply asking a question. And the >> reason it makes sense is that I never had any of these problems until [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >>>>>> okay >>>>>> and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! Dr. Steve - 12 Oct 2005 14:20 GMT ATTENTION ! ! !
Jan Drew has now begun posting as the LollipopLady.
For the sake of any new readers to this newsgroup. Jan is a retired day care owner/operator, (according to her) who makes a lot of noise about amalgam toxicity. She is not a dentist, has no training in dentistry, and does not really understand scientific methods. In addition, she flat out refuses to engage in any discussion about this issue even when the specific point of discussion does not contradict her own point of view. She cannot communicate much beyond pasting the words of other people to responses, [Many of the quotes do not apply to what is being said]. She, also, does not give any credit to the person from which she takes these quotations. Her behavior is very similar to a software program designed to post specific remarks to key words. Please be cautious if you choose to follow any advice presented by her.
Recognize that her views do NOT reflect those of modern dentistry. Her views mirror those of dishonest people who survive by preying on the innocent. If you watch and read carefully, you will see her accuse anyone who does not agree with all of her views (uneducated as they may be) of being a Liar. When that does not get enough attention, she will resort to calling people "Heifer", "Jew-boy", Atheist, Queer, etc. Her behavior is certainly not civil nor compassionate.
If you read exactly what her claims are in regard to amalgam toxicity, you will find that her claims do not make scientific sense. She claims to have been healed of neurological defects during the time that her bodily mercury levels would have been at their highest. If she really had mercury toxicity, she should have been more ill during this time, not feeling better than she had in many years. She is either badly mistaken, or she is lying about what made her ill.
Even those individuals who would like to see amalgam banned from use, find her posting methods, and refusal to discuss any topics, despicable.
Please recognize that there are far more people sensitive to Penicillin, latex, peanuts, Sulfites and even to bananas than there are people sensitive to dental amalgam and the metals it contains. None of these other materials have been banned, nor would we expect them to be banned in the future.
The lack of response (from the dentists who frequent this newsgroup) to Jan's comments in to this message thread does not represent anything other than the acknowledgement that no one can have a mature discussion with this woman. Notice how she will respond with the same slander and call me a liar rather than engage in any meaningful discussion. ..
>There is no need to get snippy. I was simply asking a question. And the >reason it makes sense is that I never had any of these problems until after I [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >>>>> okay >>>>> and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! ``````````````````````` Stephen (What's a temporary?) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LadyLollipop - 12 Oct 2005 22:41 GMT > ATTENTION ! ! ! > [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > a liar > rather than engage in any meaningful discussion. ATTENTION ! ! !
>For the sake of any new readers to this newsgroup. Jan is a retired >day care owner/operator, (according to her) who makes a lot of noise >about amalgam toxicity. Incorrect.
I post the scientific proof of mercury amalgam toxicity.
http://tinyurl.com/46pwb
>She is not a dentist, has no training in dentistry, That's true. Just a mercury poisoned person who can close to death.
>and does not really understand scientific methods. That's a lie.
Dr Steve has NOT one single study proving amalgams to be safe, while I have lots of proof and studies that show they are NOT safe.
http://tinyurl.com/7xq58
>In addition, she flat >out refuses to engage in any discussion about this issue even when the >specific point of discussion does not contradict her own point of view. Another lie. Dentist are taught well is dental school to lie.
http://tinyurl.com/3rly6
>She >cannot communicate much beyond pasting the words of other people to >responses, even when the quotes do not apply to what is being said. See above.
>She, >also, does not give any credit to the person from which she takes these >quotations. Her behavior is very similar to a software program designed > to post specific remarks to key words. Anyone can note, Dr Steve is sour grapes because he refuses to discuss and answer my questions. He is just one of many here who can't.
http://tinyurl.com/5ufrd
Follow that thread and see where Steve got caught in his own trap. He refused to discuss, couldn't answer my questions
http://tinyurl.com/4kucc
Here is where Bill Combs got caught and could answer my question, and Steve calls them *silly*.
>Please be cautious if you choose >to follow any advice presented by her. I have helped others and will continue. Proof below.
http://tinyurl.com/3uezd
>Recognize that her views do NOT reflect those of modern dentistry. They are NOT my views, they are written by researchers, Chemists, toxicologists, DDS's and MD's.
Steve is a BLATANT LIAR.
By modern dentistry Dr Steve means the lying beliefs of *organized dentistry and medicine* who remain in denial. Their concern is EGO and afraid of being sued for the lies down through the ages.
. Her views mirror those of dishonest people who survive by preying on the
>innocent. Dr Steve is DISHONEST.
I have a message, and it starts with *IF*
*IF* you have an unanswered health problem,,,,,,,,CHECK THE TEETH!
NOT by a mainstream dentist, but an Alt. dentist who KNOWS the dangers of metalin the mouth and root canals, and follows correct protocol.
I did, it saved my life
.Mercury is Poisonous.There is NO safe form of Mercury in living tissue.The mercury vapor from dental amalgam alone is a bigger source than all the other sources together.
U151 identifies mercury as a toxic waste.Mercury is also recovered from discarded products and wastes such aschlor-alkali wastes, dental amalgams, fluorescent light tubes, electronicdevices, and others.
The mercury is vaporized in a retort and collected bycondensation. Condensed mercury is then distilled to remove impurities.*
The Environmental Protection Agency is working to reduce the amount ofmercury in the environment
http://www.ehs.ucsf.edu/Manuals/CSM/Csm_Chapter9.htm
17. DENTAL AMALGAMDental amalgams are mixtures of mercury with silver tin alloy. Cal-EPAregulates them as ***chemical waste.*** Submit Chemical Waste Removal Form for its disposal.
>If you watch and read carefully, you will see her accuse anyone >who does not agree with all her views (uneducated as they may be) of being >a >liar. A total repeated lie.
The lies are from the posters own words, and has nothing whatsoever to do with disagreeing.
Lies are rampant here. When they are told and I ask for proof, Dr Steve, among others have NO proof.
You just saw an example of how Steve lies above.
>When that does not get enough attention, she will resort to calling >people "heifer", "Jew-boy", Atheist, queer, etc. Her behavior is certainly >not civil nor compassionate. I am not here for attention, as far as the above, yes if needed I do stand up to ridiculous posters.
It should also be noted, Dr Steve says W_B is a nice guy.
While he speaks of Slat Lake City Landfill.
States it's a damn shame I didn't die.
and
Well said, mf, well said.
I have been called many names.
In fact from Sr Steve himself.
Dr Steve <nos...@home.net> wrote:
> >> I stay out of the Crohn's discussion with her since there obviously > >> would be little sense trying. But, always notice she is nice to all of > >> us. You cannot say that about the three headed hydra. >If you read exactly what her claims are in regard to amalgam toxicity, you >will find that her claims do not make scientific sense. Steve has NOT one single study proving the safety of amalgams, in fact they have never been FDA approved.
> She claims to have >been healed of neurological defects during the time that her bodily mercury >levels would have been at their highest. No that what Dr Steve claims, I claimed.
He has been asked to show proof of this claim, he has none, but still repeats this lie.
NOWHERE did I ever say I was cured of anything.
<snip more lies>
>Even those individuals who would like to see amalgam banned from use, find >her posting methods and refusal to discuss any topics despicable. Proof of that lie is above.
>Please recognize that there are far more people sensitive to Penicillin, >latex, peanuts, and even to bananas than there are people sensitive to >dental amalgam and the metals it contains. None of those materials have >been banned, nor will they be banned in the future. Totally irrelevant.
Amalgams is the subject.
We already have partial bans, for very good reason.
The truth is mercury is being eliminated in ALL forms, dentists are the biggest polluters and care not about the enviroment.
The reason for this post, is Dr Steve got caught in his own trap.
After stating his many lies it is HE who refuses to discuss and can't answer my questons.
Jan
"I don't feel comfortable using a substance designated by the Environmental Protection Agency to be a waste disposal hazard. I can't throw it in the trash, bury it in the ground, or put it in a landfill, but they say it is OK to put it in people's mouths. That doesn't make sense." - Richard. Fischer, D.D.S."
> .. > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > ``````````````````````` <snip>
W_B - 12 Oct 2005 17:25 GMT >And, I have >been reading stories of other people whose problems could not be diagnosed >and they got better after the tooth was removed. That kind of speaks for >itself also, don't you think? Anecdotes do not constitute credible scientific research and evidence.
In a word, no. --
W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
LadyLollipop - 12 Oct 2005 22:50 GMT >>And, I have >>been reading stories of other people whose problems could not be diagnosed >>and they got better after the tooth was removed. That kind of speaks for >>itself also, don't you think? > > Anecdotes do not constitute credible scientific research and evidence. Please do show us the SCIENTIFIC PROOF for the safety of both root canals and the safety of amalgams.
In a word there is NONE.
> In a word, no. > -- > > W_B > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Dartos - 12 Oct 2005 20:47 GMT For many years (maybe even now) endodontics has either not been taught well or has not been learned well by many general dentists. It may not be brain surgery, but it is not to be taken lightly.
If it is done right, there are rarely any significant complications and the teeth are saved for many years and often a lifetime.
If it is done poorly, there usually are complications and the patient would often be better served with an implant.
Listening to some advice on the internet (or even in your normal life) can be filled with lies and misinformation. It may be offered with the best intentions yet be filled with ignorance. It also may be offered to scam you into something that you will live to regret.
The dentists here have no vested interests in your treatment. We offer the most reliable advice that is possible with the information given.
When people start listening to posters with no dental training or expertise what-so-ever, it is somewhat irritating.
Kind of like having a patient in the chair that says, "Aunt Mable says I should have all my teeth extracted because 'bad teeth' run in our family".
Dartos
> There is no need to get snippy. I was simply asking a question. And the > reason it makes sense is that I never had any of these problems until after I > was root canaled. It just all seems pretty coincidental to me. And, I have > been reading stories of other people whose problems could not be diagnosed > and they got better after the tooth was removed. That kind of speaks for > itself also, don't you think? LadyLollipop - 12 Oct 2005 22:58 GMT > For many years (maybe even now) endodontics has either not been > taught well or has not been learned well by many general dentists. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > The dentists here have no vested interests in your treatment. We offer > the most reliable advice that is possible with the information given. What a hoot.
The dentists here are reporting what they were taught by *organized dentisty* L I A R S.
> When people start listening to posters with no dental training or > expertise what-so-ever, it is somewhat irritating. That would be misleading, just as YOU were taught!
ONCE AGAIN, read WHO wrote the websites, NOT who posted them.
> Kind of like having a patient in the chair that says, "Aunt Mable > says I should have all my teeth extracted because 'bad teeth' run > in our family". > > Dartos http://www.toothwisdom.net/r.root_canals.html
http://www.integratedhealthpractice.com/treatment.asp#Root
ll root cancel fillings have the potential to casue bad health. This is because, althought the nerve has been removed, bacteria still colonise in the minute tubules of a tooth. These bacteria produce toxins which enter the body causing potential harm. An area of residual infection which is left under the gum, usually following, but sometimes a long time after an extraction can cause problems. Symptoms can be coincided with the energetic links to the body as well as localised problems.
http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/RCTframeset.htm
http://www.ericdavisdental.com/root_canals.htm
http://www.whale.to/d/root2.html
http://www.drshankland.com/rootcanal.html
http://webpages.charter.net/kyarbrough/rootcanals.htm
http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm
http://www.cfsn.com/maz/
http://cnorman.best.vwh.net/blazing/dental.html
http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm
http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/root_therapies.htm
http://zap.intergate.ca/root.html
http://www.dentistryholistic.com/education.html
http://www.hugnet.com/Root_Canals.html
http://www.karlloren.com/ultrasound/p25.htm
http://www.hallvtox.dircon.co.uk/hallvt.html
Root Canals. A tooth has miles of tiny canals running through the root. A dead or root filled tooth will have bacteria in these canals. There is no way of removing the bacteria once they are in there.
http://www.toothwisdom.net/
Toxicity from Root Canals
The next subject to be discussed are root canals and their possible source of toxicity. Approximately twenty five million Americans undergo root canal therapy every year in an effort to prevent the loss of teeth that have abscessed. The root canal is the left portion of the tooth which houses the vital organs such as the nerve and blood vessels. The dentist endeavors to clean and sterilize this canal and fill it with a sterile, non toxic inert material. This usually renders this tooth serviceable and non painful; however, the entire inner hard core of the tooth is made of dentin which has several million dentinal tubules. These tubules allow the circulation of lymphatic type fluid to circulate from the vital organs of the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This is a viable circulatory phenomenon which has a purpose. It services the periodontal ligament as well as the sensory aspect of the nerve and blood centers in the root canal. If the body chemistry is healthy, the flow of lymphatic fluid is from the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This creates an irrigation for the tooth and usually prevents the accumulation of plaque to form. When the body chemistry is not healthy, then the circulation is from the outside of the tooth to the inner root canal. This allows for no irrigation, but rather an accumulation of plaque to form. There are many more reasons for maintaining the integrity of the circulation in the dentinal tubules. Root canal therapy completely destroys this integrity, and what happens to the non-circulating fluid in these tubules? This fluid as it ages becomes stagnant and becomes a toxic substance. This porous structure now becomes a septic mass emanating poisons into the body. Is this what you want? Mercury amalgams are said to be the caskets of the body. Root canals are said to be the cadavers of the body.
I do not recommend root canals for anyone. Each individual has a right to their decisions. Many people simply do not wish to lose a member of their body. I respect this, and I always discuss the consequences.
The next area of discussion is whether the root canal filling actually sterilizes the apical end of the tooth. There are so many lateral canals at the root end of the tooth where bacteria can harbor that it is unlikely that a complete aseptic condition exists. This, however, is a debateable subject. Again, the complete acceptance of root canal therapy as a viable substitution for extraction is completely and whole heartedly supported by organized dentistry. You are in violation of the code of ethics if you speak out against root canal therapy. When I was a practicing dentist, I always let the patient make that decision after explaining all pros and cons.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
>California Judge Approves Landmark Warning on Mercury Use in Dentistry.
>(San Francisco, CA) - For the first time anywhere, dentists will be >required to post a warning about the dangers of mercury in their dental >fillings. A California Superior court judge finalized the language for >the warning to be posted in dentists' offices here today.
>The warning will read as follows:
>Notice to Patients, Proposition 65:
>Warning on dental amalgams, used in many dental fillings, causes exposure >to mercury, a chemical known to the state of California to cause birth >defects or other reproductive harm.
>Root canal treatments and restorations including fillings, crowns and >bridges, use chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer.
>The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has studied the situation and >approved for use all dental restorative materials.
>Consult your dentist to determine which materials are appropriate for your >treatment.
>The exact language of the warning was argued and then finalized before >Superior Court Judge James A. Robertson II between the California Dental [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >mercury dental fillings and root canals. The agreement also allows non-CDA >dentists to opt in to the agreement and post the warning.
>The warning is the result of a lawsuit filed by The Law Offices of Shawn >Khorrami on behalf of As You Sow, a not-for-profit foundation dedicated to >advocacy and activism in the public interest.
>"This is the first admission by organized dentistry that amalgams pose a >potential health risk," says Shawn Khorrami, lead attorney. "The only >problem is that it's about 100 years too late."
>This California consent judgment follows on the heels of recent lawsuits >filed in Georgia, Texas, Ohio and Los Angeles, California charging that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >risks to certain users. Mercury, a highly toxic substance, is the most >widely used substance in dental fillings today.
>The use of mercury-based thimerosal in vaccines also has been the source >of the recent controversy in the Homeland Security legislation.
>Khorrami filed the lawsuit against Roger Fieldman D.D.S., Inc., the >Citadel Dental Group, Inc. dental offices, dental laboratories and >private dental schools and training programs with more than nine >employees. The suit won the enforcement of Proposition 65, Safe Drinking >Water and Toxics Enforcement Act [Health & Safety Code § 25249.6].
>Proposition 65 requires that a clear and reasonable warning be provided to >persons prior to their exposure to a chemical known to cause cancer or >reproductive harm. This statute lists mercury, contained in dental >amalgam, as a substance that can cause reproductive toxicity. The lawsuit >was based on the absence of warnings to patients treated with amalgam >restorative materials in dental offices.
>The judgment on Proposition 65 mandates that all dental offices with more >than nine employees provide warnings on the dangers of Mercury dental >fillings to patients. Those in non-compliance could incur a fine of up to >$2,500 per day.
>Press may contact: Jackie Gladfelter at 650-218-1856 or D. Infusino at >415-225-7970; call Attorney Shawn Khorrami at 818-947-5111.
>### Jan
>> There is no need to get snippy. I was simply asking a question. And the >> reason it makes sense is that I never had any of these problems until [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> and they got better after the tooth was removed. That kind of speaks for >> itself also, don't you think? Clinton - 13 Oct 2005 00:22 GMT > For many years (maybe even now) endodontics has either not been > taught well or has not been learned well by many general dentists. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If it is done poorly, there usually are complications and the patient > would often be better served with an implant. That may be, but why does the patient have to end up with either a ($$$$) root canal, or a ($$$$) implant (which also can become infected with complicaions). How about just extracting the tooth and cleaning out the bone, option #3. It's amazing the even most OS's don't seem to be able to even do #3 or diagnose any condition that won't lead to a root canal or implant.
> The dentists here have no vested interests in your treatment. We offer > the most reliable advice that is possible with the information given. Dentistry is a business, like any other, not to mention the legal liability, for supposedly "safe" and widely practiced dental methods. And by the way, this issue is very controversial with state board harassment of dentists who do not follow the "party line". Some of this issues are even being fought out in court right now. YOur characterization of one camp of learned professionals vs a group of crazy patients is disingenous to the extreme. I'm not here to characterize the safety of root canal procedures, but please give the FTBW (follow the band wagon) argument a rest.
> When people start listening to posters with no dental training or > expertise what-so-ever, it is somewhat irritating. > > Kind of like having a patient in the chair that says, "Aunt Mable > says I should have all my teeth extracted because 'bad teeth' run > in our family". The point here is that there is an infection that isn't being treated. (Seems to be another problem commonly associated with dentistry). By the way any ENT who says an infection that doesn't show up on a CAT scan can't be there is a moron.
But why so defenisve all of a sudden about root canals. Shhhh, don't wake anybody up or threaten dentistries ($$$$) cash cow.
Some say, bury things that are dead. Yu Don't prop up dead relatives but bury them. And don't put things that are dead back in your mouth, you bury them too.
carabelli - 13 Oct 2005 01:14 GMT "Clinton" <clintonz@prodigy.net> wrote...........
> Some say, bury things that are dead. Yu Don't prop up dead relatives > but bury them. And don't put things that are dead back in your mouth, > you bury them too. Dental Cemetary - by Stephen King
carabelli
Tony Bad - 13 Oct 2005 01:45 GMT > > For many years (maybe even now) endodontics has either not been > > taught well or has not been learned well by many general dentists. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the even most OS's don't seem to be able to even do #3 or diagnose > any condition that won't lead to a root canal or implant. Then what...you didn't finish the story. What happens after option #3?
T
carabelli - 13 Oct 2005 01:53 GMT >> > For many years (maybe even now) endodontics has either not been >> > taught well or has not been learned well by many general dentists. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > T Who knows, his posts get stranger and angrier all the time. I suppose you should clean out the socket with a high speed and see how fast you can blow a bunch of nasties into the fascial planes. Time to start blocking again I guess.
carabelli
Clinton - 13 Oct 2005 03:47 GMT > should clean out the socket with a high speed and see how fast you can blow > a bunch of nasties into the fascial planes. Time to start blocking again I > guess. Extracting a tooth and properly cleaning out the socket, and/or jawbone is foreign concept to you? The truth is it apparently is foreign concept to many dentists.
carabelli - 13 Oct 2005 04:33 GMT >> should clean out the socket with a high speed and see how fast you can >> blow [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > jawbone is foreign concept to you? The truth is it > apparently is foreign concept to many dentists. Last response to you for the time being - but how many extractions have you watched that the socket wasn't curretted. Since you state most oral surgeons don't, I would have to assume this numbers in the 100's. Jeez this was first year curriculum.
carabelli
Steven Bornfeld - 13 Oct 2005 03:18 GMT > Then what...you didn't finish the story. What happens after option #3? > > T I've had plenty of patients who are happy with option #3. But many aren't. I've never, ever chained a patient down and forced them to endure a root canal. Or a crown. Or an implant. May I be so bold as to guess you haven't either?
Steve
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Tony Bad - 13 Oct 2005 03:25 GMT > > Then what...you didn't finish the story. What happens after option #3? > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Steve You may!
I agree, some people are fine with option #3. I have many patients who have no molars and function quite well with bicuspid occlusion, but as you say, it isn't right for everyone. I just completed endo on a 34 year old woman whose child bonked her teeth with his apparently rock hard head. No discoloration, so we are hoping endo will be the end of things...but even if this patient had opted for "option #3", they are not prepared to go thru the next 50 years looking like an old time hockey player!
T
Dartos - 13 Oct 2005 21:14 GMT Gum de gum gum, gum de gum gum...GUM!
Dartos
> Then what...you didn't finish the story. What happens after option #3? > > T Amatus Cremona - 13 Oct 2005 21:33 GMT > Gum de gum gum, gum de gum gum...GUM! Ah, the sweet smell of methylmethacrylate ! After bogus sensitivity testing of course.
 Signature /
Amatus
/
> > Gum de gum gum, gum de gum gum...GUM! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> T Steven Bornfeld - 13 Oct 2005 22:33 GMT > Gum de gum gum, gum de gum gum...GUM! Your name is Friday...you carry a McCall 13/14.
Steve
> Dartos > >> Then what...you didn't finish the story. What happens after option #3? >> >> T
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Amatus Cremona - 13 Oct 2005 23:11 GMT >> Gum de gum gum, gum de gum gum...GUM! > > Your name is Friday...you carry a McCall 13/14. Good one
 Signature /
Amatus
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> >> Gum de gum gum, gum de gum gum...GUM! [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>> >>> T Fawks - 14 Oct 2005 04:35 GMT Sweet!
Going to a rendezvous this weekend. I hope you'all behave.
:-) Dartos
Sherry - 15 Oct 2005 05:06 GMT I really didn't mean to start any arguments about this stuff. I was just looking to see if anyone else had ever experienced what I am going through.
Any way, I went back to the dentist on Wednesday just to see what he would sat this time. He still didn't have an answer for me and he was still suggesting that I get the teeth crowned. I told him once again that I really didn't want to spend $1,400 on something that just may have to be yanked out. He then sent me to an endodonist that same afternoon.
The endodonist discovered that my dentist had somehow missed a canal. Now I have to go back to the endodonist next Wednesday to have the tooth redone. However, he had no answer for the dizziness and the light-headedness that I have been expereincing and told me that he may have to refer me to a neurologist. My dentist has agreed to pay for the endodonist treatment in the form of crediting those charges toward my crowns. That's all fine and dandy, but I have racked up about $4,000 in other doctors bills, testing, and lost wages. When my dentist called me the next day, he never even mentioned the missed canal. He just said that he didn't think it was fair for me to have to undergo another root canal and he was going to pay for the endodonist treatment. When I mentioned that I may have to see a neurologist he skirted that issue.
I'll let you know what happens next.
>> For many years (maybe even now) endodontics has either not been >> taught well or has not been learned well by many general dentists. [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >but bury them. And don't put things that are dead back in your mouth, >you bury them too. LadyLollipop - 15 Oct 2005 06:57 GMT Sherry,
I meant to mention, if you decide to get it pulled, be sure to go to an alternative/holistic dentist. They clean the bone. I had two jaw teeth pulled this week, while cleaning the bone, my dentist found a cavitation when a wisdom tooth had been some 40 years ago. I was filled with the fat and buttery looking substance that is described on Dr. Shankland website. God only knows how long it had been in there. Had it not been the fact that he cleaned the bone, it would not have been found. I have just recently lost 35 pounds and have had no energy and no appetite. I am eager to see how much better I will feel now that this is gone!
Organized dentistry denies the fact that there is such a thing called cavitations, how very wrong they are!
Good Luck,
Jan
>I really didn't mean to start any arguments about this stuff. I was just > looking to see if anyone else had ever experienced what I am going [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] >>but bury them. And don't put things that are dead back in your mouth, >>you bury them too. Robert Morien - 15 Oct 2005 08:34 GMT It's good to see that you are so well rounded and not just an amalgam basher. Maybe it was this that was making you sick...not the amalgam
> Sherry, > [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > >>but bury them. And don't put things that are dead back in your mouth, > >>you bury them too. Tony Bad - 17 Oct 2005 04:01 GMT > Organized dentistry denies the fact that there is such a thing called > cavitations, how very wrong they are! > > Good Luck, > > Jan No one here would ever dispute the fact you have a hole in your head.
T
LadyLollipop - 17 Oct 2005 08:47 GMT >> Organized dentistry denies the fact that there is such a thing called >> cavitations, how very wrong they are! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > T Thanks once again for your making fun, Tony.
I meant to mention, if you decide to get it pulled, be sure to go to an alternative/holistic dentist. They clean the bone. I had two jaw teeth pulled this week, while cleaning the bone, my dentist found a cavitation when a wisdom tooth had been some 40 years ago. I was filled with the fat and buttery looking substance that is described on Dr. Shankland website. God only knows how long it had been in there. Had it not been the fact that he cleaned the bone, it would not have been found. I have just recently lost 35 pounds and have had no energy and no appetite. I am eager to see how much better I will feel now that this is gone!
Joel M. Eichen - 17 Oct 2005 10:56 GMT >>> Organized dentistry denies the fact that there is such a thing called >>> cavitations, how very wrong they are! [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >I meant to mention, if you decide to get it pulled, be sure to go to an >alternative/holistic dentist. They clean the bone. YUP, and we know we want clean bone. After all, dirty bone is a terrible thing.
>I had two jaw teeth >pulled this week, while cleaning the bone, my dentist found a cavitation [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >35 pounds and have had no energy and no appetite. I am eager to see how much >better I will feel now that this is gone! Ann - 18 Oct 2005 01:03 GMT >I meant to mention, No, you didn't mean to mention... you did mention it.. over and over again. What is with people on usenet who think that nobody will see their post so they post the same thing again and again. It's tedious and it's boring and it isn't going to make people love you or listen to you. Go away Miss Lollipop. And take Otis with you.
Ann
if you decide to get it pulled, be sure to go to an
>alternative/holistic dentist. They clean the bone. I had two jaw teeth >pulled this week, while cleaning the bone, my dentist found a cavitation [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >35 pounds and have had no energy and no appetite. I am eager to see how much >better I will feel now that this is gone! LadyLollipop - 18 Oct 2005 01:30 GMT >>I meant to mention, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Ann I beg you pardon, I mentioned it ONE time.
Please STOP LYING.
> if you decide to get it pulled, be sure to go to an >>alternative/holistic dentist. They clean the bone. I had two jaw teeth [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>much >>better I will feel now that this is gone! Joel M. Eichen - 18 Oct 2005 02:53 GMT >>I meant to mention, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Ann REPLY
Thanks Ann!
> if you decide to get it pulled, be sure to go to an >>alternative/holistic dentist. They clean the bone. I had two jaw teeth [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>35 pounds and have had no energy and no appetite. I am eager to see how much >>better I will feel now that this is gone! LadyLollipop - 18 Oct 2005 03:30 GMT Joel would like to thank you for lying. He loves it. He is a liar also.
>>>I meant to mention, >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >>>much >>>better I will feel now that this is gone! Joel M. Eichen - 17 Oct 2005 10:54 GMT >> Organized dentistry denies the fact that there is such a thing called >> cavitations, how very wrong they are! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >T Organized Dentistry? Is that anything like Organized Crime?
Joel
W_B - 17 Oct 2005 16:28 GMT >> Organized dentistry denies the fact that there is such a thing called >> cavitations, how very wrong they are! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >T Good one ! --
W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Clinton - 17 Oct 2005 17:44 GMT > > Organized dentistry denies the fact that there is such a thing called > > cavitations, how very wrong they are! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > T Okay, Enough, Robert Tony WB.
my leaking filling did a lot of damage to my jaw too and I emailed s Bornfeld the cat scan and he agreed the jaw was necrotic. yes Hg when it comes out enough it is a toxin and it can damage the bone and lead to strange problems, such as bone infection, cavitations whatever you want to call it.
I had an OS make the the comment to me about the "hole in the head" before I got a cat scan showing the jaw had eroded, and that was AFTER he did an extraction at the local site near where the "leaky" filling had been placed about 20 years earilier and the ignoramous himself wrote "bone is very soft but not indicative of any disease"
Furthermore "cavitations are real". I know someone who had surgery done by a Univeraity reseacrch deptartment in the South and they even noted extensive infections with areas that were apparently cavitations. there are even citations in recent research papers from NIH.
How you can go an entire career career in dentistry and not encounter some of these problems i don't know but maybe you truly are ignorant or you just don't want to know. Either way you and other dentists like you are a danger to their patients whether you realize it or not.
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 17 Oct 2005 18:10 GMT >>>Organized dentistry denies the fact that there is such a thing called >>>cavitations, how very wrong they are! [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > and lead to strange problems, such as bone infection, cavitations > whatever you want to call it. Whoa--I doubt very much I said it was necrotic. I am cetainly not experienced enough in reading CAT scans to make a judgement of that kind. I do remember the x-ray looking messy though. I will not make the jump and judge exactly what it is that I saw. I simply do not believe I have the standing to say that.
Steve
> I had an OS make the the comment to me about the "hole in the > head" before I got a cat scan showing the jaw had eroded, and that [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > you and other dentists like you are a danger to their patients > whether you realize it or not.
 Signature Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001
Clinton - 17 Oct 2005 18:57 GMT > Whoa--I doubt very much I said it was necrotic. I am cetainly not > experienced enough in reading CAT scans to make a judgement of that kind. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Steve You are correct, i confused that with what another local Oral surgeon said (who I never went to). here is what you did say. (I only post it because there is nothing in your comments unfit for anyone to see and you made clear you were not an expert in CT interpretation):
"I have no training in the reading of CAT scans. However, I do see the swelling in what I assume to be your left maxillary sinus. The full-skull scan certainly seems to indicate very serious bone destruction of the maxilla. As I do not interpret these kinds of scans I cannot tell how much overlap of the sinus on the image accounts for what looks like a major loss of bone. If I am interpreting this correctly, I must assume there is a very significant defect, and wonder if you have had any kind of reconstructive surgery" -endquote.
To everyone: That area was very near the "leaky" filling by the way and I even had high levels of copper in my blood right before removal.
I just want to make clear to everybody that Jan's having Hg problems and then bone infection is not fantasy land, but the two are very closely connected and it does happen to a number of people even if it doesn't affect most people. This is very real.
CZ
LadyLollipop - 18 Oct 2005 01:28 GMT >> Whoa--I doubt very much I said it was necrotic. I am cetainly not >> experienced enough in reading CAT scans to make a judgement of that kind. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > CZ Thank you, Clinton.
Isn't it a pity the dentists here feel the need to make fun of others suffering, even after I said, I had recently lost 35 pounds. This is despicable. I hope they feel good about themselves, it certainly doesn't speak well for the profession or lack of.
Jan
Joel M. Eichen - 18 Oct 2005 02:55 GMT >Thank you, Clinton. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Jan Steve Bornfeld is always a gentleman .......
LadyLollipop - 18 Oct 2005 03:30 GMT He is indeed, but you are still stupid.
>>Thank you, Clinton. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Steve Bornfeld is always a gentleman ....... Tony Bad - 18 Oct 2005 06:03 GMT > He is indeed, but you are still stupid. and you wonder why we make light of your suffering.
LadyLollipop - 18 Oct 2005 06:14 GMT >> He is indeed, but you are still stupid. >> > and you wonder why we make light of your suffering. You are looking for an excuse, Tony.
There is none.
Have a good day, hope you feel really good about yourself.
Robert Morien - 18 Oct 2005 06:30 GMT > >> He is indeed, but you are still stupid. > >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Have a good day, hope you feel really good about yourself. of course calling someone stupid would never be considered abuse. Or was that a lie?
Tony Bad - 18 Oct 2005 17:24 GMT > >> He is indeed, but you are still stupid. > >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Have a good day, hope you feel really good about yourself. You may the most wonderful person when people meet you face to face, but here you have been most unpleasant, which makes me wonder why it would surprise you that people have little sympathy for you. If a dog runs up and bites me, I am not going to feel bad if it breaks a tooth in the process. I don't like your online persona one bit. You have irritated me many times by accusing me of being a liar, by questioning my abilities to raise children, by accusing me of deliberately trying to harm my patients, and by making judgments about my character simply because we don't agree on a dental subject. If people here hurt your feelings by making light of your plight, I say GOOD! Perhaps it will teach you something about casting such vile at others. I have a feeling that lesson is lost on you.
I do feel really good about myself because I know the quality of my character. All I know about you is the angry, hateful person that I see here and wonder how YOU can feel good about being that person. I like what I see in the mirror. Based on the hate you spew here, I doubt you can honestly say the same thing.
T
Rich.@. - 18 Oct 2005 17:30 GMT >You have irritated me many times by >accusing me of being a liar, by questioning my abilities to raise children, >by accusing me of deliberately trying to harm my patients, and by making >judgments about my character simply because we don't agree on a dental >subject. That is because Jan Drew is a pious Christian who respects the Ten Commandments. Not!!
Jan Drew's favorite line in the bible is "Judge not, lest you be judged". Instead of taking responsibility for her *own* judging she looks at others who judge as she likely will in response to my post.
Jan Drew is a hypocrite of biblical proportions. And nearly every day of her life she proves it by her posts on usenet.
Aloha,
Rich
PS: Cue Jan to start a new thread attacking me. Just watch.
LadyLollipop - 19 Oct 2005 01:10 GMT >> >> He is indeed, but you are still stupid. >> >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > by > accusing me of being a liar, I have ONLY accused you of being a liar when you actually LIED and you very well know it.
by questioning my abilities to raise children,
> by accusing me of deliberately trying to harm my patients, That is a BLATANT REPEATED LIE.
You stated it previously, and been asked to prove it and you can NOT!!!!!
I have NEVER accused you of either one!!!!
and by making
> judgments about my character simply because we don't agree on a dental > subject. If people here hurt your feelings by making light of your plight, > I > say GOOD! How very nice of you.
You need to remember what goes around comes around.
You also might want to keep in mind, this is neither professional, nor moral.
Perhaps it will teach you something about casting such vile at
> others. I have a feeling that lesson is lost on you. You mean, like YOU just did?
It doesn't get much more despicable than making fun of others' suffering
> I do feel really good about myself because I know the quality of my > character. I would say someone is deceiving you. Perhaps you would like to take this post to you minister?
All I know about you is the angry, hateful person that I see here
> and wonder how YOU can feel good about being that person. I like what I > see [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > T What hate would that be, Tony? Saying Joel is stupid?
We all know his posts are stupid and filled with lies.
That's not hatred, it is the truth!
You talk out of both sides of your mouth!
Tony Bad Apr 18, 6:59 pm
Please don't misunderstand me Jan, I am not making fun of your illness, I am not convinced you are or were as sick as you claim. Even if one fell really hard and bumped their head causing them to lose a good portion of their reasoning ability, and bought into the existence of all three of these malady's, the odds of YOU or any one being being sickened by all three would seem very high...so high in fact...I would have a hard time believing it to be true without more definitive proof than you have ever offered here.
Remain in denial if you wish. I can assure you mercury *poisoning* makes one VERY VERY ill.
I guess you think losing 25 pounds and having no energy is *fun*
Perhaps a bone disease caused by God knows what, doesn't phase you either.
We wouldn't want to disturb your little world.
You have a lot to learn, Tony.
No doubt Richard H Jacobson cyberstalker will follow this post with his usual lies.
Then he will say, cue Jan to attack me, right after he gets done attacking.
Just is case, he just posted this on MHA
Rich.@.> wrote in message news:nke8l1thmc154upg9rbngbfbc4546kqrtm@4ax.com... Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Judge not lest you be judged.
Rich.@. - 19 Oct 2005 01:23 GMT >You also might want to keep in mind, this is neither professional, nor >moral.
>Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. >Judge not lest you be judged Tony Bad - 19 Oct 2005 02:17 GMT > You need to remember what goes around comes around. Perhaps this is why you have been cursed with such poor health!
T
Rich.@. - 19 Oct 2005 02:25 GMT >> You need to remember what goes around comes around. > >Perhaps this is why you have been cursed with such poor health! Ouch! That was BAD Tony Bad.
Cue Jan to say that her health is fine.
If Jan really did lose 35 pounds over a short period of time as she claims then she really has a serious health problem. The problem is that you cannot believe anything that this pathologic liar says.
Aloha,
Rich
Tony Bad - 19 Oct 2005 03:27 GMT > >> You need to remember what goes around comes around. > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Cue Jan to say that her health is fine. Well if one follows the simplistic view that bad things only happen to bad people, one would need to wonder why they were having such health problems...wouldn't one? I mean, what have they sent around that came around that led them to be afflicted with such chronic health issues?
T
Rich.@. - 19 Oct 2005 04:12 GMT >> >> You need to remember what goes around comes around. >> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >problems...wouldn't one? I mean, what have they sent around that came around >that led them to be afflicted with such chronic health issues? Bad Karma. Maybe Jan was some evil dictator in a previous life. Cue Jan to call me a liar since there is no such thing as previous life. Cue Jan to say that we only have a present life. And it is quite a life that Jan Drew has carved out for herself.
Aloha,
Rich
>T LadyLollipop - 19 Oct 2005 05:40 GMT Richard H Jacobson is a cyberstalker and LIAR, you should know that by now.
He is a DESPICABLE excuse for a human being, that is obsessed with badgering every single person who ever reported success with ANY alternative method to regain their health.
He has ren ALL of them off EXCEPT me, he has failed.
Therefore he will stop at nothing.
Maybe you and he have a lot in common?
See the pattern long before me.
http://tinyurl.com/39u2g
http://tinyurl.com/2vxcl
http://tinyurl.com/2nbzc
http://tinyurl.com/3gzhf == Are you sure my name is Richard Jacobson??
>>>>Is it or isn't it? >>Negative. Does this mean that I don't have to agree to Jan's request to cease and desist?? Of course her request presumes that I have been stalking and harassing her.
>I am grateful for one thing; that Richard Jacobson is not my real name. Unfortunately the Richard Jacobson that DOES live in Hawaii may not be too happy with my assuming his name for purposes of the internet especially given the recent events. He happens to live on a different island from me. I do plan to contact him to let him know that someone may try to harass him since he is listed in the phone book. =============================== Hiking The Kalalau Trail
Richard Jacobson (richj@cris.com) Sat, 16 Mar 1996 00:27:34 -0500 (EST)
>Hawaii's premier backpacking trail, the Kalalau Trail on the island of Kauai still remains closed past Hanakoa due to the reconstruction of the trail near "crawler's ridge". Estimated date of completion is Mid May. Until then, camping will only be permitted in Hanakapiai and Hanakoa Valleys. I for one am anxious to have Kalalau open again. It has to be one of the finest trails in the world.
Aloha, Rich ------------------------ ------------------------ Richard H. Jacobson Always remember to put Horace before Descarte ===============
What is sadder is that Jan has two parents with Alzheimers disease who live with her brother who she has accused in the past of being abusive to her father. Why is Jan not spending more time with her ailing parents and less time posting her drivel??
Jan says that this is the "happiest time of my life". How is that possible with two parents with Alzheimers Disease?? Something just does not add up.
But maybe her parents are better off not having Jan take care of them. Her intolerance and lack of understanding are not good qualities for someone taking care of someone with Alzheimers Disease. Maybe they are better off with her brother.
Let us all pray that Jan's parents pass quietly and peacefully. Lord knows what they must be enduring.
You don't know how much longer your parents will be on this earth.
You waste so much time in this newsgroup when you have two parents who may be close to death.
You say this is the "happiest time of your life" when you have two parents in end stage Alzheimers who do not even recognize you, by your own admission. Happiest time of your life with two parents dying a horrible death???? And you call yourself a loving child. And you think that your parents would be proud of you NOW??? Have you lost touch with reality??
Unfortunately they had no control over how their children would turn out and whether they would be there in their time of need. They may not know who you are but God sure knows that you are not spending as much time with them as you should.
You are just a very selfish person who thinks about her own happiness at the expense of her parents who are dying a horrible disease.
Having loving children spend as much time as they can with them IS something that they could really use. The choice is yours. Think about it. After they pass you will no longer be able to spend time with them. Time is limited. They are your parents after all.
God is watching. You cannot fool him with your rationalizations about why you spend so much time on usenet when the time could better be spent with your parents.
Go visit your parents.
Just like Jan is happier than she has ever been even though she has two parents dying of Alzheimers
Please get into therapy!!!!!!! Denying that your parents are dying is not a healthy thing. It is terribly hard to accept the impending loss of loved ones, but denial is NOT the answer. As much as it may hurt your pride to accept Rich's words & advice, he is correct. You are spending your time away from them (here on usenet) AND are even denying that at their age and in their condition that they are, in fact, dying.
Please find a good therapist (none of that TFT bullshit) and spend time with your parents while you still can. Usenet will be hear when you have gotten your priorities in order. Honor your mother & father, Jan, they won't be here forever.
Remember when I told you that you should visit your parents more often because they may not have much more time left in this world and you told me that I had no idea what I was talking about because your parents were NOT dying. Within weeks of my comment your father died. Perhaps without even seeing your parents I know more about their illness than you do.
And your loving nature is equally evident. OTOH maybe it is better that you DON'T visit your mother. She has enough problems as it is.
And since your mother is now staying with you it might be helpful to spend quality time with her rather than working yourself up in this newsgroup.
You have clearly gone on record saying that you worked hard all your life and now that you are retired you want to enjoy the good life which is why you choose to not spend that much time with your mother. Hopefully you will not resent your mother when her Alzheimer's Disease makes her difficult and frustrating to care for.
( and after my Dad's death,,,,,,,God rest his soul)
I am glad that you have finished grieving over the tragic loss of your father. It took me a lot longer than that to finish grieving over the loss ofmy parents. It looks like *you* have not missed a beat.
>> >> You need to remember what goes around comes around. >> > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Well if one follows the simplistic view that bad things only happen to bad > people, Stop right there.
That is NOT what was said.
This discussion is ended.
If it makes you feel good to make fun of people's suffering, YOU have a problem.
PERIOD!
one would need to wonder why they were having such health
> problems...wouldn't one? I mean, what have they sent around that came > around > that led them to be afflicted with such chronic health issues? > > T Rich.@. - 19 Oct 2005 05:52 GMT >He is a DESPICABLE excuse for a human being
>On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 04:57:03 GMT, "LadyLollipop" ><LadyLollipop@insightbb.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >>only those filled with hate have a >>need to belittle and call names. <snip Jan's rant>
Jan Drew says she is a Christian. I sure am glad she does not pass judgement on others:-)
Maybe Jan needs to get back on her meds. She is really losing it.
Aloha,
Rich
Joel M. Eichen - 19 Oct 2005 09:30 GMT Wondering .......
Reading this thread, I am reminded that I am fortunate that I possess an interesting productive life with lots of opportunity of helping others. I enjoy sharing information that I have learned over the years, and I am thankful that I possess the time and energy to enjoy the fruits of my labor.
I am thankful that I am not caught up in destructiveness and pray that others find this path as well.
Joel
>>> He is indeed, but you are still stupid. >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Have a good day, hope you feel really good about yourself. Clinton - 12 Oct 2005 00:45 GMT > > Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved it > > wrong? > > The entire scientific community. Do you want your dental/medical care to > based on one study done in 1918 that was proven wrong a few years later ? Bull sh.t, Bull **** sh.t.
Listen, Sheryy, dentists are a bunch or morons, they put Hg in peoples teeth, when you can measure large amounts vaproizing off with a jerome meter, advise people to keep dead teeth in, and insist that x-rays are always diagnostic whent they aren't (they even admit that if you read what they say closely). They aren't learned professionals at all but a trade association of dufusses who have done NOT one meaningful study on the effect of root canals. This patsy's "condemnation from the entire scientific community" amounts to the fact the he/she is a dentist who read a few propaganda tracks from the ADA.
I'm not going to get into an argument about focal infections and root canals etc, because I haven't read all the information myself, but even if root canals are ok for many people what Jan says and many dentists are questioning about infections and the focal theory is worth considering. And I know this,... ANY representaion that the ADA has done any meaningful refutation or research on this issues is a bunch of garbage. Instead they spend taxpayer resources to harass and take the liscences of dentists who dare question the holy safety of root canals which are the ADA's #1 you guessed it, ....ching, ching ....$$$$$$ MONEY MAKER!
Chumps like this and many of the other dentists you see on these newsgroups will defent toxic materials and procedures to the death becasue they are so brainwashed and ignornat, until someone eitther runs them up the proverbial flag pole with the evidence or the public actually wakes up and stops worship the insane self-serving policy of "professional fools.
LadyLollipop - 12 Oct 2005 03:43 GMT >> > Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved >> > it [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > actually wakes up and stops worship the insane self-serving policy of > "professional fools. AMEN AGAIN!
Tony Bad - 12 Oct 2005 03:57 GMT > "Clinton" <clintonz@prodigy.net> wrote in message > > > > Bull sh.t, Bull **** sh.t. > > AMEN AGAIN! Oh give it a rest you two!
T
Rich.@. - 12 Oct 2005 04:13 GMT >> "Clinton" <clintonz@prodigy.net> wrote in message >> > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Oh give it a rest you two! No rest for the wicked, Tony Bad.
Aloha,
Rich
LadyLollipop - 12 Oct 2005 05:16 GMT >> "Clinton" <clintonz@prodigy.net> wrote in message >> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > T If you don't like hearing the truth, use your killfile.
> There is no need to get snippy. I was simply asking a question. And the > reason it makes sense is that I never had any of these problems until [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and they got better after the tooth was removed. That kind of speaks for > itself also, don't you think? AMEN!!
> Amatus Cremona wrote: >>> Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved it [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>>>> okay >>>>> and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! Amatus Cremona wrote:
> > Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved it > > wrong? > > The entire scientific community. Do you want your dental/medical care to > based on one study done in 1918 that was proven wrong a few years later ? Bull sh.t, Bull **** sh.t.
Listen, Sheryy, dentists are a bunch or morons, they put Hg in peoples teeth, when you can measure large amounts vaproizing off with a jerome meter, advise people to keep dead teeth in, and insist that x-rays are always diagnostic whent they aren't (they even admit that if you read what they say closely). They aren't learned professionals at all but a trade association of dufusses who have done NOT one meaningful study on the effect of root canals. This patsy's "condemnation from the entire scientific community" amounts to the fact the he/she is a dentist who read a few propaganda tracks from the ADA.
I'm not going to get into an argument about focal infections and root canals etc, because I haven't read all the information myself, but even if root canals are ok for many people what Jan says and many dentists are questioning about infections and the focal theory is worth considering. And I know this,... ANY representaion that the ADA has done any meaningful refutation or research on this issues is a bunch of garbage. Instead they spend taxpayer resources to harass and take the liscences of dentists who dare question the holy safety of root canals which are the ADA's #1 you guessed it, ....ching, ching ....$$$$$$ MONEY MAKER!
Chumps like this and many of the other dentists you see on these newsgroups will defent toxic materials and procedures to the death becasue they are so brainwashed and ignornat, until someone eitther runs them up the proverbial flag pole with the evidence or the public actually wakes up and stops worship the insane self-serving policy of "professional fools.
Tony Bad - 12 Oct 2005 15:28 GMT > If you don't like hearing the truth, use your killfile. You are still a barrel of laughs Jan. Glad to see you renewed your sole rights to "the truth". A better idea than the killfile is just avoiding this group for the most part and leaving the dental advice to sound thinkers like you and your comrade in tin-foil hat conspiracy theory. Despite your theories about a conspiracy to hide your "truth", if everyone listened to you, the profits for dentists would soar. I could use the extra money...so keep up the good work, I am not here to argue with you any more. Have fun!
T
Amatus Cremona - 12 Oct 2005 15:43 GMT >use your killfile. Tony, please spare us the damage of having to see the words of SWNMNBM. If you are going to quote SWNMNBM, then at least put a warning the subject line to wear protective glasses or to reduce the monitor resolution prior to opening the message.
SWNMNBM has proven over the years that any attempt at discourse with SWNMNBM is totally a waste of time. SWNMNBM actually seems to gain strength from being argued with. Don't feed the trolls.
 Signature /
Amatus
/ "Tony Bad" <spamspamspam@bakedbeans.spam> wrote in message ...
> > "Laxxxxpop" <Laxxxxop@inxxxxbb.com> wrote in message
>> If [ ] truth, use your killfile. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > T Rich.@. - 13 Oct 2005 01:29 GMT
>SWNMNBM has proven over the years that any attempt at discourse with SWNMNBM >is totally a waste of time. This is true.
> SWNMNBM actually seems to gain strength from >being argued with. This is true.
> Don't feed the trolls. This is true. But she is not a troll. A troll makes inflammatory posts for the sole purpose of getting someone angry. And while I admit that Jan is good at getting people angry that is not her purpose, I assure you.
She is a seriously disturbed individual who gives very bad advice some of which can be dangerous to your health. While I agree it is pointless to argue with her I don't think that ignoring her completely is the solution. Her dangerous advice must be challenged lest some scientifically illiterate person decides to take her up on it.
She wants nothing more than to have everyone ignore her and let her spew her nonsense with impunity. That is why she badgers/stalks people endlessly. She hopes that they will give up and stop responding to her.
Aloha,
Rich
carabelli - 13 Oct 2005 01:58 GMT Hey, YOU are the one that got her started again here with a post out of the blue. No thanks to you pal. Why don't you keep it over in the alternative health newsgroup
You may have noted that several regs here do not respond anymore - we agreed on a one year moratorium. I would prefer to extend it indefinitely.
carabelli
Rich.@. - 13 Oct 2005 02:23 GMT >Hey, YOU are the one that got her started again here with a post out of the >blue. Hey, I just was making a public service announcement. Don't attack the messenger.
> No thanks to you pal. Why don't you keep it over in the alternative >health newsgroup Because her claim of having her life saved by removing amalgams is more germane to this group. Capiche?
>You may have noted that several regs here do not respond anymore - we agreed >on a one year moratorium. I would prefer to extend it indefinitely. Don't let me stop you. I prefer to expose her lies which if believed may lead someone to unnecessarily having their amalgams removed. If you guys want to stick your head in the sand and let her make her claim with impunity so be it.
Aloha,
Rich
>carabelli carabelli - 13 Oct 2005 03:07 GMT <Rich.@.> wrote.............
> Don't let me stop you. I prefer to expose her lies which if believed > may lead someone to unnecessarily having their amalgams removed. If [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Rich You have before, and I think enough is enough. Most, with anything working between their ears can take its' *advice* for what it is worth. The facts are, it had been semi-enjoyable without her unblocked ( on my end) blather. My two cents.
Mahalo
carabelli
Rich.@. - 13 Oct 2005 03:27 GMT ><Rich.@.> wrote............. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >You have before, and I think enough is enough. I have not posted this information for several months. Stop whining. If you don't like it then kill file me. I will continue to occasionally repost my proof that Jan Drew's claim of mercury poisoning from amalgams is complete bullshit and she knows it.
> Most, with anything working >between their ears can take its' *advice* for what it is worth. Bullshit. Do you know how many BILLIONS of dollars are spent each year on worthless treatments?? Do you know how many people damage their health due to ill advised treatments?? Many people are scientifically illiterate and are easily duped into various bogus treatments. You don't have to be a dummy to fall for various alternative health scams.
If someone can provide information exposing bullshit claims then I believe it is a worthwhile post.
> The facts >are, it had been semi-enjoyable without her unblocked ( on my end) blather. >My two cents. Thanx for your two cents. Next time have something more valuable to contribute.
Aloha,
Rich
carabelli - 13 Oct 2005 04:30 GMT <Rich.@.> wrote >
......... Stop whining.................
Stick it and KMEWA. SWMNBM hadn't been posting much in SMD until you had the brilliant idea of stirring the pot. If you don't like it come to KC and I'll discuss it personally with you.
And if you won't come here, Joel owes me a ride over there.
carabelli
LadyLollipop - 13 Oct 2005 04:40 GMT > <Rich.@.> wrote > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > carabelli Poor Rich is too obsessed to help himself.
He can't take the BOLD hint.
Rich.@. - 13 Oct 2005 04:48 GMT ><Rich.@.> wrote > > >......... Stop whining................. > >Stick it and KMEWA. You have a great day too.
> SWMNBM hadn't been posting much in SMD until you had >the brilliant idea of stirring the pot. It is noted that you snipped most of my post simply to make a personal attack. Looks like you and Jan Drew have something in common. Snipping posts to make personal attacks is one of Jan Drew's more endearing characteristics. Trying to emulate her?
All I did was make a post in which I provided the proof that Jan Drew aka Lady Lollipop never had mercury poisoning from dental amalgams.
And you are attacking me for that. It is one thing to have Jan Drew attack me for exposing her lies. It is another for you to do that. What's the matter?? Having a bad day.
> If you don't like it come to KC and >I'll discuss it personally with you. What's wrong with discussing it right here tough guy??
Aloha,
Rich
carabelli - 13 Oct 2005 05:57 GMT <Rich.@.> wrote .
look pal, we weren't having a bunch of idiot posts from JD until *you* decided to open the door with a blast from the past. *You* opened the floodgate with your post. Deal with it. "tough guy" not really, but I can be -why don't you just let that go. Keep at it and you will validate JD's accusation that you are obsessed - and maybe you are. She's is still a dingbat to state it nicely.
carabelli
Rich.@. - 13 Oct 2005 06:36 GMT ><Rich.@.> wrote . > >look pal, we weren't having a bunch of idiot posts from JD until *you* >decided to open the door with a blast from the past. *You* opened the >floodgate with your post. Deal with it. Deal with what?? It looks like you are the one not dealing with it. I made a post. You got all bent out of shape about it.
> "tough guy" not really, but I can >be -why don't you just let that go. Er, you were the one suggesting I meet you in KC. I find it ironic that you are upset about my post stirring up the pot while you are doing your best to keep it going. If you really did not want to open the floodgates as you say, you would just keep silent. Your continuing along these lines suggests that you don't know how to let go. No one else seems to be as bothered as you with my post. Let it go pal.
> Keep at it and you will validate JD's >accusation that you are obsessed - and maybe you are. Yeah, and maybe you are validating her accusation that you are a member of organized dentistry. Do you really want to go down that road?? Again I find it ironic that simply make a single post exposing her lies when I have not posted in months results in you enabling the quite disturbed Jan Drew's belief that I am obsessed with her. Talk about stirring the pot. I am sure she is really going to come out with guns ablazing. Well done.
> She's is still a >dingbat to state it nicely. Yeah, carabelli. You are the only well adjusted one in this discussion which is quite obvious considering the manner in which you are discussing this topic:-))
Aloha,
Rich
>carabelli Sherry - 15 Oct 2005 05:56 GMT Who are you people?!? Is anyone here a real dentist? Please let me know. I am serious, I really want to know who the real dentists are.
The only reason I resorted to the internet was because no one (dentist, doctor, ENT) could give me any answers as to why I was still feeling like crap four months after my root canal. Even the endodonist can't give me all the answers as to why I feel like this. In short, my dentist screwed something up and it has made me ill. The tooth is the focal point of the problem and has an infected root sealed inside, which is making me sick, hence focal infection. We can give it another name if you like, but it will still be the same thing
>><Rich.@.> wrote . >> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > >>carabelli W_B - 13 Oct 2005 17:34 GMT >Hey, YOU are the one that got her started again here with a post out of the >blue. No thanks to you pal. Why don't you keep it over in the alternative [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >carabelli Agreed.
Permanent moratorium. --
W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Clinton - 14 Oct 2005 03:48 GMT > >You may have noted that several regs here do not respond anymore - we agreed > >on a one year moratorium. I would prefer to extend it indefinitely. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Permanent moratorium. > -- LOL, why stop there? What better punishment for those who disagree with you than to stop posting completely! Indeed leaving sci.med would really teach them all an unforgettable lesson!
W_B - 14 Oct 2005 14:49 GMT >> >You may have noted that several regs here do not respond anymore - we agreed >> >on a one year moratorium. I would prefer to extend it indefinitely. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >with you than to stop posting completely! Indeed leaving sci.med >would really teach them all an unforgettable lesson! Go back to smoking your Lewinsky. --
W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
LadyLollipop - 12 Oct 2005 22:43 GMT >> If you don't like hearing the truth, use your killfile. >> > <snip> This thread is not about *Jan*
> T Clinton - 13 Oct 2005 00:00 GMT > > If you don't like hearing the truth, use your killfile. > > You are still a barrel of laughs Jan. Glad to see you renewed your sole > rights to "the truth". A better idea than the killfile is just avoiding this > group for the most part and leaving the dental advice to sound thinkers like > you and your comrade in tin-foil hat conspiracy theory. I guess it ultimatley boils down to a case of, if you can't take the heat , then get out of the kitchen! Indeed you can rest assured that you streak of non-scientific replies is firmly intact!
By the way, I am not really here to argue for or against root canals, but your assertion that you would make more money if root canals ($$$$) were eleminated as a procedure is as laughable as your pretense to practice the "religon" of science"!
Tony Bad - 13 Oct 2005 02:07 GMT > I guess it ultimatley boils down to a case of, if you can't > take the heat , then get out of the kitchen! Indeed you can > rest assured that you streak of non-scientific replies is > firmly intact! You wield your "non-science" club much the way the other one acuses everyone who disagrees with her views as liars.
> By the way, I am not really here to argue for or against root canals, > but your assertion that you would make more money if > root canals ($$$$) were eleminated as a procedure is as laughable as > your pretense to practice the "religon" of science"! Why is it laughable?
Root canal plus crown usually solves a problem for many years. Extraction, which is apparently your solution, means some type of prosthetic care, which would need to be replaced everytime another tooth developed endodontic pathology...or implant placement and restoration. It is simple math...add it up.
What do you mean by the religion of science? I don't understand that apparent insult.
LadyLollipop - 13 Oct 2005 03:21 GMT >> I guess it ultimatley boils down to a case of, if you can't >> take the heat , then get out of the kitchen! Indeed you can [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > everyone > who disagrees with her views as liars. That is a made up lie, I do NOT call anyone a liar unless they LIE. It has nothing whatsoever to do with disagreements.
>> By the way, I am not really here to argue for or against root canals, >> but your assertion that you would make more money if [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > it > up. MANY people come here reporting problems with root canals. Have you added them up?
> What do you mean by the religion of science? I don't understand that > apparent insult. Rich.@. - 13 Oct 2005 03:33 GMT >I do NOT call anyone a liar unless they LIE. It has >nothing whatsoever to do with disagreements. Another lie. Proof of this lie below:
To see Jan's ORIGINAL POSTING, go here: http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20040310000815.25804.00001173%40mb-m01.aol.com
Jan wrote:
> >From: Mark Thorson nos...@sonic.net > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > You can't YOU JUST LIED AGAIN!!!!!!! ----- example quotes of Jan accusing people of being paid shills -----
Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew: http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030415173745.18794.00000646%40mb-fn.aol.com
Any time alt. health is mentioned the personal trashing starts. Mostly comes from paid shill Mark Probert.
Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew: http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030412210802.08778.00000680%40mb-fw.aol.com
Internet bully Mark Probert who is a paid shill and lives off his wife.
Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew: http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030410170838.14245.00000347%40mb-ct.aol.com
As for Mark, he is a paid shill and lives off his wife.
Quoting from this ORIGINAL posting from Jan Drew: http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030325123827.25124.00000246%40mb-mn.aol.com
As long as Mark is here, the paid shill will call names when in fact he is the one who is a bigot. Speaking of his own people.
End of quotes.
Cue Jan to start a new thread attacking me because just like Jacob she must lie to cover up previous lies.
Aloha,
Rich
Clinton - 13 Oct 2005 04:19 GMT > You wield your "non-science" club much the way the other one acuses everyone > who disagrees with her views as liars. Dear pot:
Who started out this thread (amateous) saying that the entire "scientific community" supported his views (without any proof)
Sincerely, Kettle
> Why is it laughable? > > Root canal plus crown usually solves a problem for many years. Extraction, > which is apparently your solution, It's not my "solution", I'm just saying it should be a viable option.
means some type of prosthetic care, which
> would need to be replaced everytime another tooth developed endodontic > pathology...or implant placement and restoration. It is simple math...add it YOu don't need to put a prosthesis in every time you extract a tooth. I don't have any and I am fine. (no TMJ, and sliding teeth either). this is just a bit of hysteria. Just extract the tooth. by the way, unless the exraction is in the front you can't even see it, so the "you'll have a big hole in your mouth" fear factor is a bunch of hysteria as well.
I would also surmise that creating a prothesis such as a bridge really would require a lot of time, effort, and skill as well lab work and therefore not be as profitable as the faster root canal or implant, which are going for what? upwards of $2000.
> up. > > What do you mean by the religion of science? I don't understand that > apparent insult. Let's see...Well, science is like a religon. It can be practiced poorly, and therefore ...you can worship the wrong authorities.
Tony Bad - 13 Oct 2005 15:32 GMT > > Root canal plus crown usually solves a problem for many years. Extraction, > > which is apparently your solution, > > It's not my "solution", I'm just saying it should be a viable option. When has it not been? Contrary to what you think, most people don't want to lose their teeth, particularly if it is a front tooth.
> means some type of prosthetic care, which > > would need to be replaced everytime another tooth developed endodontic [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > have a big hole in your mouth" fear factor is a bunch of hysteria as > well. You are correct, that not every tooth needs replacing, but this depends on what tooth we are talking about. It is also dependant on the patient's age, their occlusion, and a host of other factors. While you have been fine without having a tooth replaced, some people will have drifting of teeth, bite collapse, and complications relating to these issues. It isn't hysteria...it is reality. My grandfather smoked three packs of no-filter cigarettes from age 11 until he died at age 82...his opinion may have been that warnings about smoking were a bit of hysteria, but people who can identify the diffeence between an a.s and an elbow on an anatomy chart know that is not hysteria.
It is also funny that you dismiss what can be a real problem for some (premature tooth loss) as "hysteria", yet when some question your claimed dental related problems as an abberation we are somehow ignorant or part of some grand dental conspiracy. So which is it? Are your views "hysteria" or are you part of some anti-dental crusade/conspiracy?
> I would also surmise that creating a prothesis such as a bridge really > would require a lot of time, effort, and skill as well lab > work and therefore not be as profitable as the faster root canal or > implant, which are going for what? upwards of $2000. Wrong
> > What do you mean by the religion of science? I don't understand that > > apparent insult. > > Let's see...Well, science is like a religon. It can be practiced > poorly, and therefore ...you can worship the wrong authorities. I will defer to your expertise in misguided worship here.
T
LadyLollipop - 13 Oct 2005 23:03 GMT >> > Root canal plus crown usually solves a problem for many years. > Extraction, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to > lose their teeth, particularly if it is a front tooth. That's understandable; UNLESS it is a danger to their health!
>> means some type of prosthetic care, which >> > would need to be replaced everytime another tooth developed endodontic [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> YOu don't need to put a prosthesis in every time you extract a tooth. I >> don't have any and I am fine. That's great, however saying I am fine does NOT means everyone will be fine.
OMMV!
(no TMJ, and sliding teeth either). this
>> is just a bit of hysteria. Umm, NO it is NOT. You think saying I am fine is A OK, but what others say is classified as *just a bit of hysteria*
That is DOUBLE STANDARDS!!!
Just extract the tooth. by the way, unless
>> the exraction is in the front you can't even see it, so the "you'll >> have a big hole in your mouth" fear factor is a bunch of hysteria as [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > some grand dental conspiracy. So which is it? Are your views "hysteria" or > are you part of some anti-dental crusade/conspiracy? See there you go again.
Talk to those whose health has been destoried by a root canal!!!!
>> I would also surmise that creating a prothesis such as a bridge really >> would require a lot of time, effort, and skill as well lab >> work and therefore not be as profitable as the faster root canal or >> implant, which are going for what? upwards of $2000. > > Wrong Wrong as in?
>> > What do you mean by the religion of science? I don't understand that >> > apparent insult. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > T And, I would say you have been taught well by misguided *organized dentistry* who in FACT taught you LIES!
Clinton - 13 Oct 2005 23:19 GMT While you have been fine
> without having a tooth replaced, some people will have drifting of teeth, > bite collapse, and complications relating to these issues. It isn't [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > identify the diffeence between an a.s and an elbow on an anatomy chart know > that is not hysteria. Another point to made is that implants themselves actually can result in significant bone loss around the implant(and reinfection), and as we are discussing there is controversy about lingering infection with RC. So there is a significant benifit to just removing the tooth. It's the only way to remove the area of all foreign/material infection and grow back healthy live bone.
> It is also funny that you dismiss what can be a real problem for some > (premature tooth loss) as "hysteria", yet when some question your claimed > dental related problems as an abberation we are somehow ignorant or part of > some grand dental conspiracy. So which is it? Are your views "hysteria" or > are you part of some anti-dental crusade/conspiracy? That's what you don't get. I never was someone who was overly concerned with dental issues, tooth stains or even having a tooth extracted. My issue with the Hg is real, but in your mind only, you have blamed that on me (the patient) as "hysteria" to rationalize your own views only. By definition you have defined someone who expierences the effects of amlgam toxicity (no matter how "rare") as "having a hysterical viewpiont and accusing others of a grand dental conspiracy". That view exists in your mind only and is based on your preconcieved biases.
The next point of attack is to try to classify me as an alternative nut. Far from it, I never was in alternative medicine (in fact my Dad works for the FDA), neither was I ever a dental hypocondriac. But when some dufus poisions you silly it's pretty hard to ignore. Maybe if I had been a dental hypocondriac this wouldn't have happened, because then I would have been more aware of dental issue and questioning the dentists.
Speaking of your 80 year old grandfather, My Uncle who was afraid of the dentist and avoided the dentists, lived a healthy live into his 80's and was a chain smoker, while i , who had no concern about the dentist had a drastic decline in health in my 20's.
In fact my sister (who is younger) did get extremely nervous in the dental chair with the same dentist to the point where he even had a discussion with my MOm about it. But when I went in next, I was pretty relaxed and unconcerned (also two years older). The way things went the dentist probably figured, this kid isn't to concerned about dental issues, I'll just throw the amalgam slop in there, and then look what happens to me , meanwhile my sister, the real dental hypocondriac doesn't have a problem at all. So the dental "hypocondriacs" in my family lead healthy lives, while I, who minimized concerns about dentistry, ends up with the worst of it and then I am accused of "dental hysteria".
By the way could check you Alumni Book and see if they ever listed a forwarding address for Robert Marko. I'd be very curious to see what information he gave them after he skipped the state ;)
Tony Bad - 14 Oct 2005 00:25 GMT > While you have been fine > > without having a tooth replaced, some people will have drifting of teeth, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > removing the tooth. It's the only way to remove the area of all > foreign/material infection and grow back healthy live bone. It is true that when an implant fails, it often destroys a lot of bone in the process, but as techniques and materials have improved, failures are uncommon. When they are successful, they actually preserve bone as they allow for loading of the area and promote continued health of the bone. When a tooth is removed, the bone that used to support the tooth loses its purposes and gradually disappears...much like the leg bones of a bedridden person will descrease in size abd strength.
> > It is also funny that you dismiss what can be a real problem for some > > (premature tooth loss) as "hysteria", yet when some question your claimed [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > conspiracy". That view exists in your mind only and is based > on your preconcieved biases. You are the one who labeled that which you see the recommendation of wat you feel is inappropriate or wrong care as "hysteria". I was merely asking if your words could be fairly applied to you and your situation. I see you don't like that characterization and contend that your universal branding of the recommendation that missing teeth be replaced as "hysteria" is equally inappropriate. More oftne than not, replacing teeth is a good plan. If someone loses a second molar and there is no opposing tooth, there is absolutely no need for replacement. I have many patients who have no molars and they function fine with just bicuspids for "posterior" teeth.
> The next point of attack is to try to classify me as an alternative > nut. Far from it, I never was in alternative medicine (in fact my Dad [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > 80's and was a chain smoker, while i , who had no concern about the > dentist had a drastic decline in health in my 20's. I believe you about your uncle. It is certainly possible to avoid dental or medical care, but it isn't a good recommendation for everyone. Perhaps you would have been better off if you didn't get the care that led to your problems, then again, you could have died from an oral cancer that would have been easily recognized by a dentist. We never know.
> In fact my sister (who is younger) did get extremely nervous in the > dental chair with the same dentist to the point where he even had [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > a forwarding address for Robert Marko. I'd be very curious to see what > information he gave them after he skipped the state ;) carabelli - 12 Oct 2005 01:37 GMT "Amatus Cremona" <Nicola@sottovocce.com> wrote ............
> If you prefer to listen to a retired day care worker rather than learned > professionals, that is your prerogative. Have a nice day. I'm not sure retired day care workers really stay on top of thier stuff - after all they are retired.
I am relying more and more on day care workers that are still working for continuing ed.
carabelli
W_B - 12 Oct 2005 17:27 GMT >"Amatus Cremona" <Nicola@sottovocce.com> wrote ............ > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >carabelli Oh, and here I thought it was 'special' Ed... --
W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
LadyLollipop - 12 Oct 2005 22:54 GMT >>"Amatus Cremona" <Nicola@sottovocce.com> wrote ............ >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Oh, and here I thought it was 'special' Ed... NONE of you thought,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,period.
Just blathered as usual.
The websites are written by PROFESSIONALS.
There went you NOT thinking and blathering.
http://www.toothwisdom.net/r.root_canals.html
http://www.integratedhealthpractice.com/treatment.asp#Root
ll root cancel fillings have the potential to casue bad health. This is because, althought the nerve has been removed, bacteria still colonise in the minute tubules of a tooth. These bacteria produce toxins which enter the body causing potential harm. An area of residual infection which is left under the gum, usually following, but sometimes a long time after an extraction can cause problems. Symptoms can be coincided with the energetic links to the body as well as localised problems.
http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/RCTframeset.htm
http://www.ericdavisdental.com/root_canals.htm
http://www.whale.to/d/root2.html
http://www.drshankland.com/rootcanal.html
http://webpages.charter.net/kyarbrough/rootcanals.htm
http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm
http://www.cfsn.com/maz/
http://cnorman.best.vwh.net/blazing/dental.html
http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm
http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/root_therapies.htm
http://zap.intergate.ca/root.html
http://www.dentistryholistic.com/education.html
http://www.hugnet.com/Root_Canals.html
http://www.karlloren.com/ultrasound/p25.htm
http://www.hallvtox.dircon.co.uk/hallvt.html
Root Canals. A tooth has miles of tiny canals running through the root. A dead or root filled tooth will have bacteria in these canals. There is no way of removing the bacteria once they are in there.
http://www.toothwisdom.net/
Toxicity from Root Canals
The next subject to be discussed are root canals and their possible source of toxicity. Approximately twenty five million Americans undergo root canal therapy every year in an effort to prevent the loss of teeth that have abscessed. The root canal is the left portion of the tooth which houses the vital organs such as the nerve and blood vessels. The dentist endeavors to clean and sterilize this canal and fill it with a sterile, non toxic inert material. This usually renders this tooth serviceable and non painful; however, the entire inner hard core of the tooth is made of dentin which has several million dentinal tubules. These tubules allow the circulation of lymphatic type fluid to circulate from the vital organs of the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This is a viable circulatory phenomenon which has a purpose. It services the periodontal ligament as well as the sensory aspect of the nerve and blood centers in the root canal. If the body chemistry is healthy, the flow of lymphatic fluid is from the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This creates an irrigation for the tooth and usually prevents the accumulation of plaque to form. When the body chemistry is not healthy, then the circulation is from the outside of the tooth to the inner root canal. This allows for no irrigation, but rather an accumulation of plaque to form. There are many more reasons for maintaining the integrity of the circulation in the dentinal tubules. Root canal therapy completely destroys this integrity, and what happens to the non-circulating fluid in these tubules? This fluid as it ages becomes stagnant and becomes a toxic substance. This porous structure now becomes a septic mass emanating poisons into the body. Is this what you want? Mercury amalgams are said to be the caskets of the body. Root canals are said to be the cadavers of the body.
I do not recommend root canals for anyone. Each individual has a right to their decisions. Many people simply do not wish to lose a member of their body. I respect this, and I always discuss the consequences.
The next area of discussion is whether the root canal filling actually sterilizes the apical end of the tooth. There are so many lateral canals at the root end of the tooth where bacteria can harbor that it is unlikely that a complete aseptic condition exists. This, however, is a debateable subject. Again, the complete acceptance of root canal therapy as a viable substitution for extraction is completely and whole heartedly supported by organized dentistry. You are in violation of the code of ethics if you speak out against root canal therapy. When I was a practicing dentist, I always let the patient make that decision after explaining all pros and cons.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
>California Judge Approves Landmark Warning on Mercury Use in Dentistry.
>(San Francisco, CA) - For the first time anywhere, dentists will be >required to post a warning about the dangers of mercury in their dental >fillings. A California Superior court judge finalized the language for >the warning to be posted in dentists' offices here today.
>The warning will read as follows:
>Notice to Patients, Proposition 65:
>Warning on dental amalgams, used in many dental fillings, causes exposure >to mercury, a chemical known to the state of California to cause birth >defects or other reproductive harm.
>Root canal treatments and restorations including fillings, crowns and >bridges, use chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer.
>The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has studied the situation and >approved for use all dental restorative materials.
>Consult your dentist to determine which materials are appropriate for your >treatment.
>The exact language of the warning was argued and then finalized before >Superior Court Judge James A. Robertson II between the California Dental [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >mercury dental fillings and root canals. The agreement also allows non-CDA >dentists to opt in to the agreement and post the warning.
>The warning is the result of a lawsuit filed by The Law Offices of Shawn >Khorrami on behalf of As You Sow, a not-for-profit foundation dedicated to >advocacy and activism in the public interest.
>"This is the first admission by organized dentistry that amalgams pose a >potential health risk," says Shawn Khorrami, lead attorney. "The only >problem is that it's about 100 years too late."
>This California consent judgment follows on the heels of recent lawsuits >filed in Georgia, Texas, Ohio and Los Angeles, California charging that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >risks to certain users. Mercury, a highly toxic substance, is the most >widely used substance in dental fillings today.
>The use of mercury-based thimerosal in vaccines also has been the source >of the recent controversy in the Homeland Security legislation.
>Khorrami filed the lawsuit against Roger Fieldman D.D.S., Inc., the >Citadel Dental Group, Inc. dental offices, dental laboratories and >private dental schools and training programs with more than nine >employees. The suit won the enforcement of Proposition 65, Safe Drinking >Water and Toxics Enforcement Act [Health & Safety Code § 25249.6].
>Proposition 65 requires that a clear and reasonable warning be provided to >persons prior to their exposure to a chemical known to cause cancer or >reproductive harm. This statute lists mercury, contained in dental >amalgam, as a substance that can cause reproductive toxicity. The lawsuit >was based on the absence of warnings to patients treated with amalgam >restorative materials in dental offices.
>The judgment on Proposition 65 mandates that all dental offices with more >than nine employees provide warnings on the dangers of Mercury dental >fillings to patients. Those in non-compliance could incur a fine of up to >$2,500 per day.
>Press may contact: Jackie Gladfelter at 650-218-1856 or D. Infusino at >415-225-7970; call Attorney Shawn Khorrami at 818-947-5111.
>### Jan
> -- > > W_B > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com LadyLollipop - 12 Oct 2005 03:41 GMT >> Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved it >> wrong? > > The entire scientific community. Do you want your dental/medical care to > based on one study done in 1918 that was proven wrong a few years later ? He means *organized dentistry*
The same ones, who deny, metal in the mouth is dangerous.
> If you prefer to listen to a retired day care worker rather than learned > professionals, that is your prerogative. Have a nice day. I am afraid that won't work.
*I* didn't write the wbsites, I only posted them.
They are learned professionals, NOT in denial.
This dear lady is having SERIOUS problems and YOU don't care!
http://www.toothwisdom.net/r.root_canals.html
http://www.integratedhealthpractice.com/treatment.asp#Root
ll root cancel fillings have the potential to casue bad health. This is because, althought the nerve has been removed, bacteria still colonise in the minute tubules of a tooth. These bacteria produce toxins which enter the body causing potential harm. An area of residual infection which is left under the gum, usually following, but sometimes a long time after an extraction can cause problems. Symptoms can be coincided with the energetic links to the body as well as localised problems.
http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/RCTframeset.htm
http://www.ericdavisdental.com/root_canals.htm
http://www.whale.to/d/root2.html
http://www.drshankland.com/rootcanal.html
http://webpages.charter.net/kyarbrough/rootcanals.htm
http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm
http://www.cfsn.com/maz/
http://cnorman.best.vwh.net/blazing/dental.html
http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm
http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/root_therapies.htm
http://zap.intergate.ca/root.html
http://www.dentistryholistic.com/education.html
http://www.hugnet.com/Root_Canals.html
http://www.karlloren.com/ultrasound/p25.htm
http://www.hallvtox.dircon.co.uk/hallvt.html
Root Canals. A tooth has miles of tiny canals running through the root. A dead or root filled tooth will have bacteria in these canals. There is no way of removing the bacteria once they are in there.
http://www.toothwisdom.net/
Toxicity from Root Canals
The next subject to be discussed are root canals and their possible source of toxicity. Approximately twenty five million Americans undergo root canal therapy every year in an effort to prevent the loss of teeth that have abscessed. The root canal is the left portion of the tooth which houses the vital organs such as the nerve and blood vessels. The dentist endeavors to clean and sterilize this canal and fill it with a sterile, non toxic inert material. This usually renders this tooth serviceable and non painful; however, the entire inner hard core of the tooth is made of dentin which has several million dentinal tubules. These tubules allow the circulation of lymphatic type fluid to circulate from the vital organs of the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This is a viable circulatory phenomenon which has a purpose. It services the periodontal ligament as well as the sensory aspect of the nerve and blood centers in the root canal. If the body chemistry is healthy, the flow of lymphatic fluid is from the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This creates an irrigation for the tooth and usually prevents the accumulation of plaque to form. When the body chemistry is not healthy, then the circulation is from the outside of the tooth to the inner root canal. This allows for no irrigation, but rather an accumulation of plaque to form. There are many more reasons for maintaining the integrity of the circulation in the dentinal tubules. Root canal therapy completely destroys this integrity, and what happens to the non-circulating fluid in these tubules? This fluid as it ages becomes stagnant and becomes a toxic substance. This porous structure now becomes a septic mass emanating poisons into the body. Is this what you want? Mercury amalgams are said to be the caskets of the body. Root canals are said to be the cadavers of the body.
I do not recommend root canals for anyone. Each individual has a right to their decisions. Many people simply do not wish to lose a member of their body. I respect this, and I always discuss the consequences.
The next area of discussion is whether the root canal filling actually sterilizes the apical end of the tooth. There are so many lateral canals at the root end of the tooth where bacteria can harbor that it is unlikely that a complete aseptic condition exists. This, however, is a debateable subject. Again, the complete acceptance of root canal therapy as a viable substitution for extraction is completely and whole heartedly supported by organized dentistry. You are in violation of the code of ethics if you speak out against root canal therapy. When I was a practicing dentist, I always let the patient make that decision after explaining all pros and cons.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
>California Judge Approves Landmark Warning on Mercury Use in Dentistry.
>(San Francisco, CA) - For the first time anywhere, dentists will be >required to post a warning about the dangers of mercury in their dental >fillings. A California Superior court judge finalized the language for >the warning to be posted in dentists' offices here today.
>The warning will read as follows:
>Notice to Patients, Proposition 65:
>Warning on dental amalgams, used in many dental fillings, causes exposure >to mercury, a chemical known to the state of California to cause birth >defects or other reproductive harm.
>Root canal treatments and restorations including fillings, crowns and >bridges, use chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer.
>The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has studied the situation and >approved for use all dental restorative materials.
>Consult your dentist to determine which materials are appropriate for your >treatment.
>The exact language of the warning was argued and then finalized before >Superior Court Judge James A. Robertson II between the California Dental [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >mercury dental fillings and root canals. The agreement also allows non-CDA >dentists to opt in to the agreement and post the warning.
>The warning is the result of a lawsuit filed by The Law Offices of Shawn >Khorrami on behalf of As You Sow, a not-for-profit foundation dedicated to >advocacy and activism in the public interest.
>"This is the first admission by organized dentistry that amalgams pose a >potential health risk," says Shawn Khorrami, lead attorney. "The only >problem is that it's about 100 years too late."
>This California consent judgment follows on the heels of recent lawsuits >filed in Georgia, Texas, Ohio and Los Angeles, California charging that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >risks to certain users. Mercury, a highly toxic substance, is the most >widely used substance in dental fillings today.
>The use of mercury-based thimerosal in vaccines also has been the source >of the recent controversy in the Homeland Security legislation.
>Khorrami filed the lawsuit against Roger Fieldman D.D.S., Inc., the >Citadel Dental Group, Inc. dental offices, dental laboratories and >private dental schools and training programs with more than nine >employees. The suit won the enforcement of Proposition 65, Safe Drinking >Water and Toxics Enforcement Act [Health & Safety Code § 25249.6].
>Proposition 65 requires that a clear and reasonable warning be provided to >persons prior to their exposure to a chemical known to cause cancer or >reproductive harm. This statute lists mercury, contained in dental >amalgam, as a substance that can cause reproductive toxicity. The lawsuit >was based on the absence of warnings to patients treated with amalgam >restorative materials in dental offices.
>The judgment on Proposition 65 mandates that all dental offices with more >than nine employees provide warnings on the dangers of Mercury dental >fillings to patients. Those in non-compliance could incur a fine of up to >$2,500 per day.
>Press may contact: Jackie Gladfelter at 650-218-1856 or D. Infusino at >415-225-7970; call Attorney Shawn Khorrami at 818-947-5111.
>### Jan
>> Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved it >> wrong? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>>> okay >>>> and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! W_B - 12 Oct 2005 17:23 GMT It makes no sense. You cannot prove a negative.
Research does not support the theory of focal infection.
>Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved it >wrong? [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >>> okay >>> and that I should let him crown them, I am going to scream!!! --
W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
LadyLollipop - 12 Oct 2005 22:47 GMT > It makes no sense. > You cannot prove a negative. > > Research does not support the theory of focal infection. Reasearch does NOT prove either root canals or metal in the mouth to be safe.
Period.
>>Whether it was proved wrong or not, it still makes sense. Who proved it >>wrong? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com LadyLollipop - 11 Oct 2005 23:30 GMT Have it pulled, dear lady!!!!
Next time, find a good alternative/holistic dentist, who will tell you the *truth*
Good luck and prayers,
Jan
PS. If I can help more, please feel free to e-maiil me privately.
Either at my Lollipop address or jdrew63929@aol.com
> Thanks to everyone who replied to my post. I have an appointment with the > dentist tomorrow morning to have him once again check on the teeth that he [quoted text clipped - 229 lines] >> >>Jan Rich.@. - 11 Oct 2005 23:38 GMT >Have it pulled, dear lady!!!! Jan Drew aka Lady Lollipop giving dental advice? What are Jan's qualifications for this. Now she is practicing dentistry without a license.
Aloha,
Rich
W_B - 12 Oct 2005 17:14 GMT >I was reading about Weston >Price and his theories on focal infection and the toxicities caused by [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >get out of hand from a tooth. I may have opted for just having the thing >pulled, which also was never discussed. The 'focal infection theory' was disproved many moons ago. IOW it is rubbish. Makes no sense at all.
Read some real truth about endodontics here: www.aae.org --
W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
LadyLollipop - 12 Oct 2005 22:45 GMT >>I was reading about Weston >>Price and his theories on focal infection and the toxicities caused by [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Read some real truth about endodontics here: www.aae.org You won't find any truth at the ADA,,,,,,,,,, period.
> -- > > W_B > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Joel M. Eichen - 10 Oct 2005 12:24 GMT >Water is even toxic - in large doses, it causes drowning! To say nothing about the effect of all the hydrogen once all the water molecules separate.
Joel
Bill - 11 Oct 2005 18:14 GMT Joel wrote:
On 9 Oct 2005 21:25:37 -0700, "dr shad j lewis (via google)" <shadle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Water is even toxic - in large doses, it causes drowning! ______________________________
To say nothing about the effect of all the hydrogen once all the water molecules separate.
Joel _______________________________
Hydrogen? Heck, just think of the sudden rush from all the oxygen!
But please, no smoking around water molecules.
- dentaldoc
Joey Evergreen - 30 Sep 2006 23:04 GMT Sherry,
I too recently had root canal & ended up w/ 6 root canals (pd again) to have 2 retreated, 4 teeth ended up being extracted, 2 apeoectomies & I still have pain. After 7 months I was finally told I have a neuralgia along w/ some root canals possibly needing retreated. I went to neurologist to get this confirmed. The symptoms that I have w/ the neuralgia are burny feeling, pain, numbness/tingling. I also had all sorts of tests done prior this as was having other physical symptoms. I am normally a very healthy person & never had any of these problems prior. I am STILL dealing w/ this after well over thousands of dollars. My general dentist that started this has about $7,000 of my money. I am well over 10,000$ in cost in less than 7 months & have had lots of pain. Also when gen. drs. can't find anything...seems that since I'm 41, they tell you at your age many women go through depression & anxiety & want to put u on drugs u don't need. They don't seem to be well versed w/ the connection between the teeth & the body. Also change dentists. Mine was caused by dental work. Hope this helps. I am still wondering if I should be able to get $$ back. And I am also still trying to get rid of the neuralgia so the other residual problems can be addressed. Good luck.
Joey E.
>About 4 months ago I began the root canal process. I was put on an >antibiotic on Friday afternoon and was drilled on Monday morning. Is this [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] >dentist wanted to continue the root cnal work even though I insisted that I >was still in pain.
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