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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / October 2005

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Cost of invisalign

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Steve.T.Duncan@gmail.com - 05 Oct 2005 23:15 GMT
I recently went to an Orthodontist to get an estimate for Invisalign
treatment. I am in my 20s. He recommended that I wear invisalign braces
for the next 12 months.  So a total of 12 X 2 = 24 braces, a new brace
every other week.

The approximate cost structure is given below
Initial (Documents + X Ray ) - 300
Teeth impressions + other stuff (one time fee ) - 800
Invisalign monthly payments 400 X 12 = 4800

This would come to a total of $ 5900 for the whole treatment. Is this a
reasonable price in the Atlanta area?

Steve
Joel M. Eichen - 06 Oct 2005 01:07 GMT
>I recently went to an Orthodontist to get an estimate for Invisalign
>treatment. I am in my 20s. He recommended that I wear invisalign braces
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Steve

Nope.

$6K is $120 per week for a year.
carabelli - 06 Oct 2005 02:48 GMT
>>I recently went to an Orthodontist to get an estimate for Invisalign
>>treatment. I am in my 20s. He recommended that I wear invisalign braces
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Nope.
>.........
Yup

carabelli
carabelli - 06 Oct 2005 02:55 GMT
Interesting, the latest AJO or whatever it is now had an article comparing
treatment with fixed appliances (braces) vs. Invisalign.  Forgive me if the
numbers are wrong - the journal is at the office.  A number of fixed
appliance cases and invisalign cases treated by the same ortho were
evaluated.  The standard used was scoring for the Board.  Of the fixed cases
around 45% would have been acceptable as Board cases (pretty good I would
say).  Invisalign cases were around 21 %.  Results were statistically
significant.

As the article pointed out this is one ortho's treatment - a variable.  The
other was that he had practiced for a considerable amount of time thus more
experienced with fixed appliance therapy than invisalign.  Still, an
interesting article.

carabelli
Steve.T.Duncan@gmail.com - 06 Oct 2005 03:35 GMT
>> Of the fixed cases
>> around 45% would have been acceptable as Board cases
>> (pretty good I would say).
>>  Invisalign cases were around 21 %.

What does this mean? What does it mean to be acceptable as a Board
case?

Does this mean he did a bad job in 55% (100-45) of ordinary brace cases
and a bad job in 79 % (100-21) of invisalign cases.
carabelli - 06 Oct 2005 03:58 GMT
>>> Of the fixed cases
>>> around 45% would have been acceptable as Board cases
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> What does this mean? What does it mean to be acceptable as a Board
> case?

It means you have done a perfect, not real good, perfect job with a
rationale for the treatment plan

> Does this mean he did a bad job in 55% (100-45) of ordinary brace cases
> and a bad job in 79 % (100-21) of invisalign cases.

It means that the results did not meet the criteria set forth by their
scoring method.  You get to pick the cases you choose to present.  Believe
me, I have plenty of cases that would not pass board scoring.  However if
those examiners looked at pre and post- treatment records they would see
that perfect could not be achieved on these cases - and would probably say I
did a good job on a person that could not be treated to a perfect result.
That wouldn't matter - it still would not pass.

I would be more concerned about letting your orthodontist use the tools he
feels will give you the best results that can be provided rather than accept
what may be an unnecessay compromised result because you don't want to wear
conventional braces ( and probably be charged less).

And to the Invisalign attorneys,  this is my opinion and based on never
having used Invisalign.  So there.

carabelli
Joel M. Eichen - 06 Oct 2005 12:07 GMT
>>>> Of the fixed cases
>>>> around 45% would have been acceptable as Board cases
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>what may be an unnecessay compromised result because you don't want to wear
>conventional braces ( and probably be charged less).

YES!

This paragraph is key .....

Joel

>And to the Invisalign attorneys,  this is my opinion and based on never
>having used Invisalign.  So there.
>
>carabelli
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 06 Oct 2005 14:30 GMT
>>>>Of the fixed cases
>>>>around 45% would have been acceptable as Board cases
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> carabelli

    I am shocked...SHOCKED to hear this!

Steve ;-)

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Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Steve.T.Duncan@gmail.com - 06 Oct 2005 16:04 GMT
I think we might be getting off the track here.

My original question was... Is 5900 a reasonable price for invisalign
treatment for one year?

If not what is the reasonable price?

Steve
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 06 Oct 2005 16:48 GMT
> I think we might be getting off the track here.

    Allow us our indiscretions.

> My original question was... Is 5900 a reasonable price for invisalign
> treatment for one year?

    Yes, I believe it is.

Steve

> If not what is the reasonable price?
>
> Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Steve.T.Duncan@gmail.com - 06 Oct 2005 17:32 GMT
My apologies if you felt I sounded rude in the previous mail.
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 06 Oct 2005 18:02 GMT
> My apologies if you felt I sounded rude in the previous mail.

Not at all.  Just wish to be clear.

Steve

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Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Steve.T.Duncan@gmail.com - 07 Oct 2005 01:36 GMT
One more question. What are the chances of cost overrun after I start
Invisalign?

After say 9 to 10 months, how often do the doctor come back and say,
"Gee it is not working as I expected. I think you should keep wearing
these for another 6 months. And by the way it is going to cost you
another 2500$$".

I have read of some cases like these in the newsgroup. Is this a norm
or an exception?

Steve
Steven Bornfeld - 07 Oct 2005 15:44 GMT
> One more question. What are the chances of cost overrun after I start
> Invisalign?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Steve

    You should ask your orthodontist explicitly about this.  Some
orthodontists will do this, but it shouldn't be a surprise.  It should
be discussed and agreed to before treatment starts.

Steve

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Mona with Braces - 08 Oct 2005 05:14 GMT
> > One more question. What are the chances of cost overrun after I start
> > Invisalign?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> > these for another 6 months. And by the way it is going to cost you
> > another 2500$$".

I am happy to speak to this question since I am the treatment
coordinator in a SF Bay Area ortho practice.

1.  Align Technology is a corporation set up to make a profit.  They
spend lots of money on advertising.   The hefty fees for the computer
generated aligners is billed to your orthodontist up front.

To be candid, we have been put off by  their collection tactics that
are aggressive and not nearly as generous or lenient as the financial
arrangements you will find in most ortho practices.

Recently there have been competitors offering the same type of
technology.  Invisalign treatments, or treatments with clear aligners
might come down a bit in price as a result.  We hope so.

2.  Many people come in to our practice for initial evaluations hoping
for clear aligner treatments only to be told that their teeth are too
malaligned or the malocclusion too severe for the aligners to correct
satisfactorily.  They'll usually opt for traditional methods but
they're often disappointed.

3. General dentists can and do handle some of the easier corrections
with aligners but should problems be encountered later on in treatment,
some dentists simply find that they are uncertain of the course to
take.  You'll probably be better off searching for an orthodontist with
a good track record from the outset.

4.  Read the TIL contract carefully.  If there is no provision for
extended treatment, be sure to ask about that.  It is not uncommon for
people to be unhappy that their teeth have not reached the
"perfection'" that they had hoped for.  Most orthodontists will discuss
that in the pre-treatment consultation.  Our Dr. not only advises pts
from the outset that invisalign sometimes can not achieve as precise a
correction as traditional methods, but he also quotes the fee for
extended care in case the pt. opts for it down the line. Extended care
is usually a short period with traditional braces for finishing the
treatment.

5.  Orthodontics is not an exact science. It is tough to predict
outcome and it is tough to predict treatment time.  So much of it
depends on pt. cooperation, but some is simply nature taking its
course.
Our Dr. tells us that before attending his residency Ortho training he
was a general dentist for 5 years.  He attended courses in ortho back
then  and thought "Hey, I can do this."  It wasn't til later on, when
he was in the ortho specialty training program  that he realized how
little he really knew.  He has helped many a general dentist out when
they come up against a tough unexpected problem while treating a
patient with braces or aligners.
We have seen plenty of people happy with the treatment they have
received from general dentists, too.
I would recommend seeking 2nd and 3rd opinions if you are uncertain of
the best choice for  you.  

Mona
Joel M. Eichen - 08 Oct 2005 06:43 GMT
Thanks Mona with da braces ... for all the great information!

Joel

>> > One more question. What are the chances of cost overrun after I start
>> > Invisalign?
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
>
>Mona
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 08 Oct 2005 16:59 GMT
>>>One more question. What are the chances of cost overrun after I start
>>>Invisalign?
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
>
> Mona

    Thanks for the information Mona.  Good to hear there's some competition
coming into the Invisalign marketplace.  I felt the same way when Gerald
Niznik came into the implantology field.
    I can assure you that I did not graduate dental school thinking I had
adequate instruction in orthodontic therapy.  This was in marked
contrast to perio, endo, and prosthodontics.
    Sounds like you are in a good practice.

Steve

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Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Joel M. Eichen - 06 Oct 2005 12:06 GMT
>>> Of the fixed cases
>>> around 45% would have been acceptable as Board cases
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Does this mean he did a bad job in 55% (100-45) of ordinary brace cases
>and a bad job in 79 % (100-21) of invisalign cases.

Your math is good ......

Joel

Very good ....... just about perfect .......
Joel M. Eichen - 06 Oct 2005 12:05 GMT
That's my impression too.

FIRST OFF, I always suggest a real orthodontist rather than any
dentist masquerading as orthodontic treatment clinician ... forgive me
if that is anyone here .....

SECOND, let the decision of whether to ban or not to band be made by
the dental practitioner, not one's girlfriend ..... or one's wife for
that matter .....

Joel

>Interesting, the latest AJO or whatever it is now had an article comparing
>treatment with fixed appliances (braces) vs. Invisalign.  Forgive me if the
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>carabelli
Joel M. Eichen - 06 Oct 2005 12:03 GMT
>>>I recently went to an Orthodontist to get an estimate for Invisalign
>>>treatment. I am in my 20s. He recommended that I wear invisalign braces
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>carabelli

Yup reasonable, or yup, its NOT reasonable?

Educate me!

Joel
carabelli - 06 Oct 2005 13:43 GMT
"Joel M. Eichen" <joeleichen@yahoo.com> wrote .........

> Yup reasonable, or yup, its NOT reasonable?
>
> Educate me!
>
> Joel

reasonable

carabelli
Jacob - 06 Oct 2005 02:10 GMT
That sounds very high to me.  I'd check with another dentist.

> I recently went to an Orthodontist to get an estimate for Invisalign
> treatment. I am in my 20s. He recommended that I wear invisalign braces
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Steve
Steve.T.Duncan@gmail.com - 06 Oct 2005 02:34 GMT
What is a reasonable price for such a treatment?

Steve

> That sounds very high to me.  I'd check with another dentist.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> >
> > Steve
Joel M. Eichen - 06 Oct 2005 12:08 GMT
>What is a reasonable price for such a treatment?

Depends on the dental office, and what is being put into the treatment
....... Does he have a couple of girls at $8.50 an hour who run around
with pliers and tighten up the loosies .....?

Joel

>Steve
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>> >
>> > Steve
Joel M. Eichen - 06 Oct 2005 12:07 GMT
>That sounds very high to me.  I'd check with another dentist.

Yup, or orthodontist .....

Joel

>> I recently went to an Orthodontist to get an estimate for Invisalign
>> treatment. I am in my 20s. He recommended that I wear invisalign braces
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>
>> Steve
Steven Bornfeld - 06 Oct 2005 02:45 GMT
> I recently went to an Orthodontist to get an estimate for Invisalign
> treatment. I am in my 20s. He recommended that I wear invisalign braces
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Steve

    There is a range, of course.  From what I've heard, this is low-average.
    Lab fees are quite high.  I'd say most fees I've heard quoted are
higher than $5900.

Steve

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