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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / October 2005Rotary endodontic failure
Originally Posted by David My dentist wants me to sign a waiver. Can anyone tell me how often this occurs. I've scoured the web with no success. Thanks *********************************************** To all, I am cross-posting this from Dentalcom.net. I am sorry but I do not have time to keep referring people to this site. It seems a waste of my time as they do not come to this site to re-ask the question. Therefore I am just posting this. If anyone would like to help this person, please post your repsonses. If there are responses, THEN I will refer this patient to this site to find the (or more) answers!! I hope this works within your expected netiquette rules. Thank you for your consideration, Sue or else you may post asnwers here: http://www.dentalcom.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2908 Thank you for any information you wish to share. Does anyone here have any more information? Thanks. -Just people helping people. David, I can only speak as a patient. I am not sure what "rotary" endo involves, but I have had "regular" endo work done in the past. I have always had to sign a waiver too. I think this is just an honest matter of letting you know up front that nobody can guarantee a 100% success rate. Personally I do not think that this waiver indicates that your particular dentist has more unsuccessful cases than any other dentist. I think it is a simple matter of warding off potential problems (i.e. covering his/her butt against a potential lawsuit or an angry patient if the procedure is not 100% successful). Perhaps you can ask your dentist for statistics like... "how often do you see complications and/or failures?" etc. If you truly mistrust this person, then perhaps you may want to seek a second opinion. I will ask a couple dentist friends for their opinion on this and try to report back later. Good luck! Sue P.S. If you are scouring the web for info.. you may want to look for the success/failure rates for this procedure. This may help you determine whether the risk pertains to your particular dentist or to the procedure itself. I have posted your question at another dentistry site. You may want to check this out: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.dentistry/browse_frm/thread/d3f97e3c66aa0 bf5/2d601d0d32e6e168#2d601d0d32e6e168 > Originally Posted by David > My dentist wants me to sign a waiver. Can anyone tell me how often this > occurs. I've scoured the web with no success. > > Thanks What does the waiver say? Steve > *********************************************** > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Sue  Signature{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Arial;}} {\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove "nospam" to reply\par } Dr. Bornfeld, Thank you! Is it ok if I cross-post your question (onto Dentalcom) for this fellow? I do not know if he will check back in there, but I am only trying to help get answers for him. Thank you, Sue P.S. And if so, may I post your name as well? If he sees that you are a dentist, he may be more inclined to check in here. P.S.S. The waiver that I signed for "regular" endo work included understanding that complications may occur such as: Sinus perforation, file breaking off, infection, pain, etc. (something like that... I cannot remember exactly..) >Dr. Bornfeld, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >fellow? I do not know if he will check back in there, but I am only >trying to help get answers for him. SUE!!!! That is too suggestive a name ........ for this gentle group. Why are you signing yourself as "SOME BODY!!!! ....... ?" I thought that was only used on Thursdays, after work! Joel >Thank you, >Sue [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Sinus perforation, file breaking off, infection, pain, etc. (something >like that... I cannot remember exactly..) > Dr. Bornfeld, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > P.S. And if so, may I post your name as well? If he sees that you are > a dentist, he may be more inclined to check in here. Sure. > P.S.S. The waiver that I signed for "regular" endo work included > understanding that complications may occur such as: > > Sinus perforation, file breaking off, infection, pain, etc. (something > like that... I cannot remember exactly..) Well, that's interesting. I'd like to hear the whole laundry list. My impression is that there is a difference between informed consent regarding what may normally be expected to happen in a significant number of cases (pain, for instance) and other less routine occurences which may possibly (but not necessarily) be due to operator error--such as sinus perforation, broken instruments, etc. I can tell you that a blanket informed consent including possible sequellae of careless treatment leaves a bad taste in my mouth. As far as the legalities: obviously I'm not an attorney. But generally my information is that a release is binding if it is reasonable. Furthermore, a patient cannot release a dentist from liability due to negligence or unprofessional conduct. Therefore, this appears to me to be a situation where the patient is given the impression that they have no legal recourse if things go wrong. I doubt very much however that this is actually the case. Steve Signature{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Arial;}} {\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove "nospam" to reply\par } Dr. B explained it very well. There is no way to tell why the disclaimer is so detailed, but it will not protect the dentist from malpractice. It is important to realize that a poor result from a root canal may not be malpractice. However, perforating the sinus cavity sounds a little far fetched for a normal risk factor. Files break, roots take weird curves, teeth sometimes have extra canals that defy location and cleaning, etc. If the dentist is good at endo, these problems should happen rarely. When they do, a referral to a specialist or a discount on replacement usually takes care of things. Perfection is impossible, but a dentist cannot stop trying to get there. Dartos Thanks Fawks--- I am having trouble keeping up. Back later then to read this thread thoroughly, :-) Sue > Dr. B explained it very well. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Dartos "perforating the sinus cavity sounds a little far fetched for a normal risk factor." Yes. This is far fetched. It actually refers to perforating a root (not the sinus cavity!) Also it refers to "separation of a file" not breakage. I think this sort of disclosure is not only smart on the doctor's part, but it also educates the patient. I would rather be informed and understand the risk factors PRIOR to having a procedure perfomed. JMHO as a patient, Sue P.S. Thank you for your inputs Fawks, Joel and Dr. Bornfeld. > "perforating the sinus cavity sounds a little far fetched for > a normal risk factor." [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > P.S. Thank you for your inputs Fawks, Joel and Dr. Bornfeld. The only comment I feel I should make is that this release makes it sound as though root perforations and broken instruments are normal risks one must accept if one is to do a root canal--an act of God as it were. While sometimes (very rarely) this may be true, the vast majority of times it is because of operator error. Now, don't call your lawyer. I would just hope the dentist shows as much responsibility in doing things right as he shows in covering his own a.s. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 Dr Bornfeld, If you are speaking to me (Sue) about calling my lawyer.. there is no worry there. I have no reason to sue anyone about anything... at least not to date anyway! Nobody has ever wronged me in such a way that would necessitate this sort of action. However, If I ever thought that I had been unduly wronged and that suing would be a corrective action that would benefit me and others, believe me I would take action! There are some true scum bags out there. I have even crossed paths with a few. Oh well. One learns. One learns what is necessary to protect oneself against scum and then moves forward. But in reality, in MOST cases, both parties are just trying to make the right choices for themsleves in an honest and sincere manner. Most people are just trying to do the best that they can and are not out to harm, manipulate or to "use" others simply for their own personal gain. I am not a child. I am not naive. I have lived a fairly successful life thus far looking at "the world" this manner .... as some may say... "through rose-colored glasses." lol. But this is how I personally choose to view the world. It seems to work for me.... and I remain a happier person this way. So who really cares? Only me. I guess. It only matters to me what I think! :-) Take Care, Sue > Dr Bornfeld, > > If you are speaking to me (Sue) about calling my lawyer.. there is no > worry there. I was speaking metaphorically. I think whomever wrote that release form went to a few too many legal lectures. Steve I have no reason to sue anyone about anything... at least > not to date anyway! > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Sue Signature{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Arial;}} {\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove "nospam" to reply\par } I was speaking metaphorically. I think whomever wrote that release form went to a few too many legal lectures. Reply. OOPs Sorry. And my reference to scum bags was not referring to any dentists either. I was speaking in general terms. -Sue >I was speaking metaphorically. I think whomever wrote that release >form went to a few too many legal lectures. > >Reply. OOPs Sorry. And my reference to scum bags was not referring to >any dentists either. I was speaking in general terms. >-Sue Do not tell us ... this is "G" rated group .......... >> Dr Bornfeld, >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Steve I do not get it. Why is Steve Bornfeld calling Sue Madden's lawyer? Aren't there any good lawyers in Brooklyn anymore? Joel >Originally Posted by David >My dentist wants me to sign a waiver. Can anyone tell me how often this >occurs. I've scoured the web with no success. > >Thanks What exactly is being waved ..... at ...... Joel >*********************************************** > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Sue Hi JOel and Dr. Bornfeld, #1 off. THANKS! I will post Dr. Bornfeld's reply on Dcom. JOelY- No offense, but I will leave your comments here. :-) #2 I cannot write today. We have FDA stuff going on all week. That is always SCARY!!!!! So I need to stick to nuts and bolts here. Then as you know Joel .. I have VB (volleyball) on Thursday nights. SPikers (the sports bar) went out of business. We now play in a BUBBLE! (It is an old golf dome). It was really weird at first, but I am starting to like it now. They pipe in music.. so it is still fun... even if we cannot order cheese curds and brewsky post game. :-) I am on 3 different teams. All in one night! But my shoulder is really starting to give out. They keep me around because I cheer the loudest and give the rest of the players a little morale.. but MY game is horrible these days... (I am too old to be playing still and should have given it up at least 5 yrs ago...oh and have always been too short too while the young players just keep gettig taller and taller). Oh well. Sorry to be so chatty and off topic. I DO have a LOT to say about this topic (on many levels)... will do so in a rational manner when I can. I am nervous energy right now because I need to have every single duck in a row... Forgive me. Thank you for not ignoring this topic. I think I have the waiver I signed... still.. so I can list everything later... I hope. Will be back then. Thanks!, Sue P.S. Joel- have fun at the ADA meetings in Philly this week. Some day I will see that city. It is on our list of travel destinations (seriously.. we are planning to make a trip there with Bill and Anabel within the next 2 years). PS To Dr. Bornfeld, Maybe "waiver" is the wrong term... It was an informed consent I believe. Also it did not include "breaking a file," I am quite sure. That is more likely just an idea I picked up while on DT. I need to get the actual form. Sorry. I did not mean to mislead anyone. Without having the actual form, I cannot say for sure exactly what was on it. I have it in my health records. I will relay the factual info for you later. Take Care, Sue > PS > To Dr. Bornfeld, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Take Care, > Sue In almost all the lectures, we're advised to refer to the event as a "separated" instrument, and not a "broken" instrument. I guess "broken" is too...judgemental for them. Yes, it sounds like an unusually florid informed consent form. You have been advised of the risks, yadayadayada...so no one can say they haven't been told. This is not a "hold harmless" clause. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 |
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