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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / October 2005Dentists getting robbed in California- a message for other dentists
I live in LA and I am tired of some con-artists with DDS degrees I have been working for. All they want is to make money for them and they would pay you as little as possible ( 500-600-750/day) I am a very skilled dentist and I feel like I am being taken advantage off when I am told: OK you produce 8000/day for me , I'll give you 800. I hear in other states you can make 1000/day easily as an associate. They would give you a base of 300-400-450 and maybe 5 % of production , so no matter how much you make for them , you cannot go over 800 for you in a good day. Or they give you 20 % of production , but you have to do their nasty HMO work for free , so they could get countless capitation checks. It looks like robbery to me. Also it seems that some horrendous HMO corporations are spreading like cancer through California - the quality of dentistry is horrible , the dentists are underpaid and overworked. What those companies want you to do is over diagnosing and cheating on the patients and make tons of money for them , they do not care about you or about the patients at all. They squeeze you like a lemon. Patients be aware , there is a big chance that you get poor quality dental work in a HMO practice; you get what you are paying for. Dentists working as associates ( slaves ), stop selling yourself so cheap and open your own practice . Stop getting robbed by DDS or DMD con-artists ! I read that it would be fair for the associate dentist to get 35% of production; it does not happen in Los Angeles. Any opinions ? ca_dds_la@yahoo.com > Any opinions ? I am not a dentist, but I have a job that requires about that same level of education. Also, like you, I have no monetary investment in my job beyond my education. I would be delighted to be making your " 500-600-750/day". (That said, I don't live in LA.) Vaughn May I ask what job is that. Being a dentist is quite stressful sometimes ( highest suicide ratei n gthe US) and it should be compensated acordingly >> Any opinions ? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Vaughn http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010420.html >May I ask what job is that. > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> Vaughn > May I ask what job is that. > > Being a dentist is quite stressful sometimes ( highest suicide ratei n gthe > US) and it should be compensated acordingly yeah.... if I kill myself, I wanna get a milllllion dollars US$ after..... SP  SignatureTake out the TRASH to reply > May I ask what job is that. I think that I have defined it enough for the purpose of this conversation. No point degenerating into a discussion of comparative worth. > Being a dentist is quite stressful sometimes ( highest suicide ratei n gthe > US) and it should be compensated acordingly Would it help if I could depress some of my co-workers enough for them to off themselves? Vaughn >I live in LA and I am tired of some con-artists with DDS degrees I have been >working for. Re: Dentists getting robbed in California- a message for other dentists Yep, I keep telling the dentists to be careful about which part of town they are walkin' ........ around. >All they want is to make money for them and they would pay you as little as >possible ( 500-600-750/day) [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > >ca_dds_la@yahoo.com >I live in LA and I am tired of some con-artists with DDS degrees I have been >working for. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >I hear in other states you can make 1000/day easily as an associate. OK 1/8th? That's twelve and one-half percent? This is a great discussion .... I will add more later ...... Joel PS~ I agree Dude. >They would give you a base of 300-400-450 and maybe 5 % of production , so >no matter how much you make for them , you cannot go over 800 for you in a [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >ca_dds_la@yahoo.com >Also it seems that some horrendous HMO corporations are spreading like >cancer through California - the quality of dentistry is horrible , the >dentists are underpaid and overworked. >What those companies want you to do is over diagnosing and cheating on the >patients and make tons of money for them , they do not care about you or >about the patients at all. They squeeze you like a lemon. A good term for you to know is, "Corporate consolidators." This is your target, right? Joel >Also it seems that some horrendous HMO corporations are spreading like >cancer through California - the quality of dentistry is horrible , the >dentists are underpaid and overworked. >What those companies want you to do is over diagnosing and cheating on the >patients and make tons of money for them , they do not care about you or >about the patients at all. They squeeze you like a lemon. Corporate consolidators: Over 2,000 hits on newsgroups: Including information discussed almost seven years ago! http://groups.google.com/groups?q=corporate+consolidators sampling, Searched all groups Results 1 - 10 of 2,060 for corporate consolidators (0.30 seconds) See your message here... Corporate consolidators Corporate consolidators What's so bad about it? A ... In addition, corporate consolidators like to purchase multi- doctor offices. One ... sci.med.dentistry - Feb 11 1999, 11:33 pm by Joel M. Eichen - 4 messages - 3 authors Corporate consolidators - dentistry ... Who knows? I am concerned that the corporate consolidators have the ability, the motivation, and the wherewithal to drive out the neighborhood dentists. ... sci.med.dentistry - Oct 27 1998, 7:36 am by Joel M. Eichen - 1 message - 1 author Corporate consolidators part 1 Corporate consolidators? If ... BOTTOM LINE: Patients, dentists and investors should all ingore corporate dental consolidators. Cheers ... sci.med.dentistry - May 4 1999, 7:11 am by Joel M. Eichen - 2 messages - 2 authors Corporate consolidators - a threat to dentistry ... Corporate consolidators - a threat to dentistry I am driving down the highway and I am distracted by my dashboard's panel lights. Oooops! ... sci.med.dentistry - Oct 6 1999, 7:53 pm by Michael Stanley - 3 messages - 2 authors Corporate consolidators ... BTW the situation below might even be construed as a constructive dismissal by some. Roy Corporate Consolidators - who are they? ... sci.med.dentistry - Jan 30 1999, 8:29 am by Hans Lennros - 12 messages - 3 authors Corporate consolidators - part 2 How to evaluate your own practice against what's going on with the corporate consolidators: Monarch Dental: Gross Income: $ 57 million revenue (9 months) times ... sci.med.dentistry - May 5 1999, 12:09 am by Joel M. Eichen - 1 message - 1 author Corporate consolidators Dental corporate considators please take note. Orthopedic specialties are suffering some serious consolidation woes. ... The company is in default on a loan. ... sci.med.dentistry - Jan 15 1999, 4:33 am by Joel M. Eichen - 1 message - 1 author Farran on corporate consolidators ... REPLY: Howard Farran and I have differing ideas about what qualifies an organization as "successful publicly traded general dental company." A $1,000 ... sci.med.dentistry - Apr 19 2001, 6:36 pm by "Joel M. Eichen" - 1 message - 1 author Corporate consolidators ... in the time frame of less than one year." Cheers, Joel ----- Tuesday April 6, 6:50 pm Eastern Time Company Press Release ... sci.med.dentistry - May 1 1999, 11:47 am by Joel M. Eichen - 2 messages - 1 author ZCCCF (Commercial Consolidators Inc.) Chronology ... 8. Dec.02 Before ZCCCF began trading OTC, a class action suit was initiated against Commercial Consolidators and its corporate board members (DEC. ... misc.invest.stocks - Mar 7 2003, 11:13 pm by Jeff Myers - 3 messages - 2 authors New! Get the latest messages on corporate consolidators emailed to you with Google Alerts. Result Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next > I live in LA and I am tired of some con-artists with DDS degrees I have been > working for. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I hear in other states you can make 1000/day easily as an associate. You're dreaming. Steve > They would give you a base of 300-400-450 and maybe 5 % of production , so > no matter how much you make for them , you cannot go over 800 for you in a [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > ca_dds_la@yahoo.com Signature{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Arial;}} {\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove "nospam" to reply\par } > > I live in LA and I am tired of some con-artists with DDS degrees I have been > > working for. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Steve LOL...I thought the same thing. I am not buying that he/she is producing $8000 a day either. If you can make $150,000 to $200,000 as an associate in LA I would not move or quit that job...in fact, I might dump my practice and the headaches associated with ownership and take your job and let them "rob" me like that for a while. T associates barely make $100000 in LA. Vagas or northern California that's different. Previosu Post: associates barely make $100000 in LA. Vagas or northern California that's different. Flap's Reply: There is currently a shortage of American trained dentists in California. An American trained associate dentist (who speaks fluent English) who is experienced and fast enough can make 100K or more. There are plenty of opportunities to work in a number of different practice models. If the associate dentist is experienced enough to see a regular patient load he should be paid on the basis of the amount of work he produces and/or collects. The percentage varies but is usually between 25-35%. Salaried positions lead to less incentive to work and usually disgruntled feelings for both parties. Flap http://flapsblog.com I wish I could get 35 % I am producing an average of 3000-3500-4000 a day So I could make 1100/day or more , I make 650 instead I even called remote offices located in some sh.t-holes nobody wants to go , they want to swamp you with HMO work and pay you 550/day, I guess they can find some desperate crappy dentist to take that for a few months ,; they have a very high turn-over 100.000/year sucks > Previosu Post: associates barely make $100000 in LA. Vagas or northern > California [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > http://flapsblog.com > I wish I could get 35 % > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > 100.000/year sucks I say dismount from your high horse and open your own practice...then you'll find out what you are really worth. T Post: wish I could get 35 % I am producing an average of 3000-3500-4000 a day So I could make 1100/day or more , I make 650 instead I even called remote offices located in some sh.t-holes nobody wants to go , they want to swamp you with HMO work and pay you 550/day, I guess they can find some desperate crappy dentist to take that for a few months ,; they have a very high turn-over 100.000/year sucks Flap's Reply: Well, if you can produce 3-4 K a day then you should ask for a percentage or move on. If you are experienced enough, then purchase an existing practice or become partners with a soon to retire dentist and buy him out when it is time for him to retire. There are many opportunities it just takes time and effort to find them. Flap http://flapsblog.com Yo Falp! You need to change your newsreader to append ">" or something because its tough to see what you are saying and what others are saying ..... Jeol. >Post: > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >http://flapsblog.com > I wish I could get 35 % > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > find some desperate crappy dentist to take that for a few months ,; they > have a very high turn-over Why don't you go start your _own_ "sh.t hole" ? Then you may just change your tune a bit... SP SignatureTake out the TRASH to reply >associates barely make $100000 in LA. Vagas or northern California >that's different. What do you mean associates barely make $10000000? In los angeles this is the case. LA is very saturated with dentists recent graduates make less than hygenists. Now if you go up northern california its different there are very few dentists up there. Take a look at Lompoc, Roseville, Stockton there is a great need for dentists. In LA there are 200 plus dentists within 2 blocks of each other. In a typical medical building there are 40 dentists and you have 4 buildings like this on the same block. Now picture that not all of these 200 dental offices have a single dentists half have associates. A recent graduate will barely get 300/day and if you are getting $450/day you are doing good compared to LA standards. Again if you go up north you can make $1000/day fairly easy. Most associates do not want percentage because at HMO offices the procedures are prepaid and a lot of $0 fillings so they work you to the bone and 20 or if you are lucky 30% of production of $0.00=$0.00. Or the fees are so low because of Medical Cigna Safeguard, PMI (delta dental), What's the point? now you have lots of unemployed dentists willing to take a lower base salary. End result of working on percentage is you are forced to spend less time and cut corners to make up in volume ultimately patients suffer in these offices. The guys that run the practices are doing well since they sign up with 20-30 HMO plans and collect 15-20K/month/plan. They hire a ton of staff to handle the load and spend very little on lab and supplies. If seen one office where the would cut bibs and high vacuum suctions in half. and you are there as an associate drilling with dull burs because your boss does not want to buy new ones. There was I time when I worked in one of these places and I had to bring my own burs, files, handpieces, apex locator, etc... so that I can get through the day. Of course the dental board is really not putting a squeeze on these types of practices since nobody really cares about the associate. There are no laws to protect the associate. All of this is a product of the insurance companies going HMO. If you think about it there are very few remaining traditional endemnity type of policies most are either HMO or really bad paying PPOs. I know some of those HMO practices, I do not want to give names. They should be closed down ; they are a public hazard. > In los angeles this is the case. LA is very saturated with dentists > recent graduates make less than hygenists. Now if you go up northern [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > remaining traditional endemnity type of policies most are either HMO or > really bad paying PPOs. Adentist's Post: know some of those HMO practices, I do not want to give names. They should be closed down ; they are a public hazard. Flap's Reply: Yes, they are. Shameful. Flap http://flapsblog.com Alex is right about southern cal...by the way, been to usc mobile clinic lately alex? Or at least they should be required to have proper training for their bouncers ....... >Adentist's Post: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >http://flapsblog.com >I know some of those HMO practices, I do not want to give names. > >They should be closed down ; they are a public hazard. We got worse ....... one dry wall contractor owns a multi-doctor dental office ...... two lab guys own a small chain of offices with lots of dentists ..... BAD for patients! Joel >> In los angeles this is the case. LA is very saturated with dentists >> recent graduates make less than hygenists. Now if you go up northern [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> remaining traditional endemnity type of policies most are either HMO or >> really bad paying PPOs. Alexander's Post: In los angeles this is the case. LA is very saturated with dentists recent graduates make less than hygenists. Now if you go up northern california its different there are very few dentists up there. Take a look at Lompoc, Roseville, Stockton there is a great need for dentists. In LA there are 200 plus dentists within 2 blocks of each other. In a typical medical building there are 40 dentists and you have 4 buildings like this on the same block. Now picture that not all of these 200 dental offices have a single dentists half have associates. A recent graduate will barely get 300/day and if you are getting $450/day you are doing good compared to LA standards. Again if you go up north you can make $1000/day fairly easy. Most associates do not want percentage because at HMO offices the procedures are prepaid and a lot of $0 fillings so they work you to the bone and 20 or if you are lucky 30% of production of $0.00=$0.00. Or the fees are so low because of Medical Cigna Safeguard, PMI (delta dental), What's the point? now you have lots of unemployed dentists willing to take a lower base salary. End result of working on percentage is you are forced to spend less time and cut corners to make up in volume ultimately patients suffer in these offices. The guys that run the practices are doing well since they sign up with 20-30 HMO plans and collect 15-20K/month/plan. They hire a ton of staff to handle the load and spend very little on lab and supplies. If seen one office where the would cut bibs and high vacuum suctions in half. and you are there as an associate drilling with dull burs because your boss does not want to buy new ones. There was I time when I worked in one of these places and I had to bring my own burs, files, handpieces, apex locator, etc... so that I can get through the day. Of course the dental board is really not putting a squeeze on these types of practices since nobody really cares about the associate. There are no laws to protect the associate. All of this is a product of the insurance companies going HMO. If you think about it there are very few remaining traditional endemnity type of policies most are either HMO or really bad paying PPOs. Flap's Reply: Alexander, I have practiced in Southern California for over 25 years and I do not think your figures are correct for an experienced dentist who can produce dentistry. Most corporate dental offices will pay a base of $450-$500/day plus a bonus percentage. I have never heard of even a non-profit paying $300/day. However, you must be selective in the jobs for which you interview. The corporate dental offices like Pacific Dental Services, Gentle Dental etc. are never going to pay any one but the owner-managing dentist very much. But, it may be good to build skills, speed and learn the business side of dentistry - if you are a new grad. This is why they have turnover - DUH! If the office is crap....then leave - or don't even start. Ask them on the telephone what they pay and do not agree to a working interview unless you know how many patients you will see, how the office is staffed and do a site visit. If you want ownership responsibility, then partner up or buy a practice. This is where we all end up after a few years in any event. Flap http://flapsblog.com flap please read carefuly about my numbers A recent graduate will barely get 300/day and if you are getting $450/day you are doing good compared to LA standards. Again if you go up north you can make $1000/day fairly easy. I did not mention an experienced DDS. experienced DDS can get 450-550 like you said. And pacific dental wants recent grads to cut down costs and take advantage of their inexprience. When I was an associate, I constantly had to change treatment plans because the managing dentist or owner would overdiagnose. The owners did not like that but I did not care the patient always came first. We were doing concious sedation with dental assistants who were not trained, it was a nightmare. The worst is that some of these places had these charts where they give you very little space to write to cover your a.s. This was one of the reasons why I opened my own practice and left the associate scene. A classmate of mine started his own practice dumped all the HMOs then got hit with the effects of Sept 11 and went belly up. He was forced to go up north and work for one of these places. The place he worked for was targeted by the board and 22 dentists including him and the owner got convicted of medical fraud and assault and bodily injury for performing overdiagnosed procedures on patients. The case is still in progress and it is possible that he will not only lose his licence but will incur jail time. It is very scary of some of the crap out there and unfortunately the associate who sometimes is forced to work as an independent contractor does not get any protection and gets pulled into crap just to keep his job. It is very sad. Alexander's Post: lap please read carefuly about my numbers A recent graduate will barely get 300/day and if you are getting $450/day you are doing good compared to LA standards. Again if you go up north you can make $1000/day fairly easy. I did not mention an experienced DDS. experienced DDS can get 450-550 like you said. And pacific dental wants recent grads to cut down costs and take advantage of their inexprience. When I was an associate, I constantly had to change treatment plans because the managing dentist or owner would overdiagnose. The owners did not like that but I did not care the patient always came first. We were doing concious sedation with dental assistants who were not trained, it was a nightmare. The worst is that some of these places had these charts where they give you very little space to write to cover your a.s. This was one of the reasons why I opened my own practice and left the associate scene. A classmate of mine started his own practice dumped all the HMOs then got hit with the effects of Sept 11 and went belly up. He was forced to go up north and work for one of these places. The place he worked for was targeted by the board and 22 dentists including him and the owner got convicted of medical fraud and assault and bodily injury for performing overdiagnosed procedures on patients. The case is still in progress and it is possible that he will not only lose his licence but will incur jail time. It is very scary of some of the crap out there and unfortunately the associate who sometimes is forced to work as an independent contractor does not get any protection and gets pulled into crap just to keep his job. It is very sad. Flap's Reply: Yes, this is very sad. But, by discussing it in a public forum perhaps we can make enough awareness that dentists will understand the risks associated in working in these practice models. Also, we can keep dentists informed of the current market for dental employment opportunities. Reciprocity will be easier very soon and if the market stays as it is in LA then dentists will move up north or other areas where ever their licenses will take them. I suppose I could post (for free of course) dental employment market conditions on my blog. Just need the information. Sorry about your friend but didn't he take any dental jurisprudence courses while in dental school? He really should have known better. Flap http://flapsblog.com What the did was send in a mole who befriended his coworkers, took notes , patient names documented conversations so that he can be a witness in court. when they busted the place they split all the associates and threatened them so that they would squeel on each other. Yes he should have know better. There is a slim chance for him to get out of it which is to make a deal, or get a good lawyer who can discredit the mole by saying the mole took conversations out of context. And he would have to show that the overtreatment was not really overtreatment. This in my opinion would not be very easy either way. >What the did was send in a mole who befriended his coworkers, took >notes , patient names documented conversations so that he can be a >witness in court. Yup, those moles ...... again! >when they busted the place they split all the associates and threatened >them so that they would squeel on each other. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >the overtreatment was not really overtreatment. This in my opinion >would not be very easy either way. HOLY MOLEY > >What the did was send in a mole who befriended his coworkers, took > >notes , patient names documented conversations so that he can be a > >witness in court. > > Yup, those moles ...... again! If this is true ( and I'm sure it is; it is entrappment. I would plead that and nothing else). SP SignatureTake out the TRASH to reply >In los angeles this is the case. LA is very saturated with dentists >recent graduates make less than hygenists. Now if you go up northern >california its different there are very few dentists up there. Take a >look at Lompoc, Roseville, Stockton there is a great need for dentists. I heard they will not let you in the area unless you own at least a dozen flannel shirts plus nice hiking boots ...... >In LA there are 200 plus dentists within 2 blocks of each other. In a >typical medical building there are 40 dentists and you have 4 buildings [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >remaining traditional endemnity type of policies most are either HMO or >really bad paying PPOs. >Most associates do not want percentage because at HMO offices the >procedures are prepaid and a lot of $0 fillings so they work you to the >bone and 20 or if you are lucky 30% of production of $0.00=$0.00. Or Add to that what we easterners call, "front desk bias." The Bossman steals the good patients ... well its his practice, isn't it? Joel > LA is very saturated with dentists > recent graduates make less than hygenists. My Reply: I just threw up. See how it is when people you are working for over diagnose sometimes and you have to make up all kind of reasons to change the treatment plan( if you are not like them and you have a conscience (do not want to screw the patients) Should I start telling you about all the unethical crap going on in many dental practices , or you know already? I know few associates in other states making 1000/day and I know practice owners collecting 150.000-200.000 a month from only 2-3 doctors. The doctors get sh.t , the owners get the rest. What bothers me more is not what they pay you , but the fact that they expect you to do unethical things so they could get more money ; they are to greedy , that is the problem. Do you think they care about anything else but production? If I will ever have associates after I open a practice, I'll give them a fair share . You're dreaming. > Steve LOL...I thought the same thing. I am not buying that he/she is producing $8000 a day either. If you can make $150,000 to $200,000 as an associate in LA I would not move or quit that job...in fact, I might dump my practice and the headaches associated with ownership and take your job and let them "rob" me like that for a while. >See how it is when people you are working for over diagnose sometimes and >you have to make up all kind of reasons to change the treatment plan( if you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Should I start telling you about all the unethical crap going on in many >dental practices , or you know already? Nope, tell us! Pweazzzzzzze. Joel >I know few associates in other states making 1000/day and I know practice >owners collecting 150.000-200.000 a month from only 2-3 doctors. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >associated with ownership and take your job and let them "rob" me like that >for a while. > LOL...I thought the same thing. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > T Um... then y'all can come up here to Quee-Bec and work for me, and I'll pay you in Canadian Club whiskey and Maple Syrup... and maybe some Canadian beer and Tim Horton's donuts.... We travel to and from work up here by ox cart in the summer (the first Thursday and Friday in July) and by dog sleds the rest of the time. Some of our igloos even have indoor plumbing.... And I own one of the three computers in Quebec City.... We're laughin'... _really!_ Cheers SP SignatureTake out the TRASH to reply > Um... then y'all can come up here to Quee-Bec and work for me, and I'll > pay you in Canadian Club whiskey and Maple Syrup... and maybe some > Canadian beer and Tim Horton's donuts.... What? No Canadian Bacon? Vaughn > > Um... then y'all can come up here to Quee-Bec and work for me, and I'll > > pay you in Canadian Club whiskey and Maple Syrup... and maybe some [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Vaughn Vaughn: Wake up and smell the coffee: Kaannaadian bacon is BAD for you.... You are much better off with a box of nice healthy donuts... SP SignatureTake out the TRASH to reply > Vaughn: Wake up and smell the coffee: Kaannaadian bacon is BAD for > you.... Actually, I can't remember the last time I ate any bacon. >You are much better off with a box of nice healthy donuts... Donuts too... (SP shines a big light in my face and slaps me around a bit) OK...OK, I did weaken and eat a Krispy Kreme donut a few months ago. It was "hot to go" and I just couldn't resist. Do they have Bagels in Kannada? Vaughn > > Vaughn: Wake up and smell the coffee: Kaannaadian bacon is BAD for > > you.... [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Vaughn Yes.... there is a very strong Jewish presence in Montreal, so we have _real_ traditional bagles all over Quebec. These come from bagel bakeries in the less affluent Jewish quarter. We also have the grocery store bread bakery kind, but _nobody_ eats those when we can have the real thing. As for the rest of Kaannaada, I would think the same is true in Torooonnntooo, but Roy would know better. SP SignatureTake out the TRASH to reply >> Do they have Bagels in Kannada? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > _real_ traditional bagles all over Quebec. These come from bagel > bakeries in the less affluent Jewish quarter. I should not be surprised. Bagel foundries started appearing in my neighborhood in Detroit when my age was barely measured in double digits. That is where I first learned to love them. Later, when my family moved to Florida in the 60's, they were unknown. > We also have the grocery store bread bakery kind, but _nobody_ eats those when we can have the > real thing. Exactly! They are made from the same dough they use for everything else; bread, English muffins, dinner rolls. Only the shape changes. We have a few large predominately-Jewish retirement communities around here, so that is where one finds the good bagel foundries. Vaughn >>> Do they have Bagels in Kannada? >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >is where I first learned to love them. Later, when my family moved to Florida >in the 60's, they were unknown. I've never eaten a bagel. I don't even know what one looks like. How's that for a confession? >>>> Do they have Bagels in Kannada? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >I've never eaten a bagel. I don't even know what one looks like. >How's that for a confession? They are square and they are very flat and crunchy. When you bite into one it often crumbles so we eat them over a plate. >I've never eaten a bagel. I don't even know what one looks like. >How's that for a confession? _________________________________ Joel wrote: They are square and they are very flat and crunchy. When you bite into one it often crumbles so we eat them over a plate. __________________________________ Tom, Joel is pulling your leg. Sure, bagels are flat and crunchy. Everybody knows that! But he didn't mention that they have rows of little square dents in the flat surface to hold all the Canadian maple syrup that is poured on top. - dentaldoc > But he didn't mention that they have rows of little square dents in the > flat surface to hold all the Canadian maple syrup that is poured on > top. Oh yea! It just wouldn't be a bagal unless it was floating in a puddle of Jenuwine Kanadian maple syrup. Vaughn Dats matzoh, silly............. ares > >>>> Do they have Bagels in Kannada? > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > They are square and they are very flat and crunchy. When you bite into > one it often crumbles so we eat them over a plate. > Exactly! They are made from the same dough they use for everything else; > bread, English muffins, dinner rolls. Only the shape changes. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Vaughn I'm not sure how different the dough is anyway. According to a local pretty authentic bagel maker, traditionally the dough is rolled and boiled. These are not too puffy, toothy and dense. He contrasted these with the newer, puffy type. He said these were not boiled, but were sprayed with water before baking. Steve Signature{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Arial;}} {\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove "nospam" to reply\par } >> Exactly! They are made from the same dough they use for everything else; >> bread, English muffins, dinner rolls. Only the shape changes. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I'm not sure how different the dough is anyway. Its always high-gluten flour, except if you buy them from Dunkin' Donuts. In that case they make the dough out of cardboard. > According to a local >pretty authentic bagel maker, traditionally the dough is rolled and >boiled. Yup, boiled, then baked! > These are not too puffy, toothy and dense. He contrasted these >with the newer, puffy type. He said these were not boiled, but were >sprayed with water before baking. > >Steve >>> Do they have Bagels in Kannada? >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >is where I first learned to love them. Later, when my family moved to Florida >in the 60's, they were unknown. Not around Miami though ......... > > We also have the grocery store bread bakery kind, but _nobody_ eats those >when we can have the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Vaughn > We have a few large predominately-Jewish retirement communities around > here, so that is where one finds the good bagel foundries. > > Vaughn I would hazard an opinion that just about _anywhere_ where you have a good ethnic congregation, you will get good food, no matter what the ethnicity. SP SignatureTake out the TRASH to reply > Um... then y'all can come up here to Quee-Bec and work for me, and I'll > pay you in Canadian Club whiskey and Maple Syrup... and maybe some > Canadian beer and Tim Horton's donuts.... You make it Labatts 50 and some of Tim's triple chocolate and I'm in...and maybe a few coffee crisp bars too. T > > Um... then y'all can come up here to Quee-Bec and work for me, and I'll > > pay you in Canadian Club whiskey and Maple Syrup... and maybe some [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > T Sure.... '50 and Molson X, as we call Molson Export, are still the two biggest selling beers here. You mean you can't get Coffee Crisp down there in Gotham City? That's amazing... SP SP SignatureTake out the TRASH to reply > Sure.... '50 and Molson X, as we call Molson Export, are still the two > biggest selling beers here. You mean you can't get Coffee Crisp down > there in Gotham City? That's amazing... > > SP No Coffee Crisp round here...I did pick up a bunch at the duty free place on the way home from Ontario a week or two ago. Maybe you can explain this one...Down here I can buy a 28 pack of Molson Canadian for $17.99...while at the "Beer Store" in Ontario that same case costs $37.99...which is about $33 with the exchange...is all that difference tax? I head up in September for a fishing trip and wind up bring beer TO Canada...it is Canadian beer, so that makes it a bit better...but bringing beer to Canada is like bringing a sandwich to a gourmet restaurant. On the subject of bagels...the Montreal ones seem to have a bit sweeter taste than NY bagels...do they add honey or something to the mix? T > Down here I can buy a 28 pack of Molson > Canadian for $17.99...while at the "Beer Store" in Ontario that same case > costs $37.99...which is about $33 with the exchange...is all that difference > tax? I head up in September for a fishing trip and wind up bring beer TO > Canada...it is Canadian beer, so that makes it a bit better...but bringing > beer to Canada is like bringing a sandwich to a gourmet restaurant. Firstly, check the EtOH content. I think it used to be that what you buy down there has less in it. Secondly, I wouldn't be surprised if what you get down there is brewed down there. Check the label: does the name "Budwizer" appear anywhere? I also wouldn't be surprised if the taxes _are_ the biggest chunk of difference: EtOH is taxed at usureous rates like everything else up here. My Dad always said: this is a great place to live. Too bad you can't make any money here... > On the subject of bagels...the Montreal ones seem to have a bit sweeter > taste than NY bagels...do they add honey or something to the mix? > > T Now _that_ I can't answer; I used to hang around with all kinds of ethnics in Mtl when I was young, but I don't know anyone who could answer that question. The only thing I can suggest is that the next time I'm in Mtl, I can phone the Van Horne Bagel Factory, or Yagel Bagel, and ask them. If I can understand their English or French (don't laugh, these boys are from the Old Country) I'll report back. You could email me one of your'n and I could email one of mine and we could compare. Cheers SP SignatureTake out the TRASH to reply >> I am a very skilled dentist and I feel like I am being taken advantage off >> when I am told: OK you produce 8000/day for me , I'll give you 800. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Steve California Dreaming ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com |
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