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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / September 2005

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NTI-TSS huh?

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Joel M. Eichen - 14 Sep 2005 14:04 GMT
Whot?

See the prices .....??

Is this how you guys order this stuff?

Joel

Migraine Kit
Item # 60
(NEW ASSORTMENT - Same Number of Devices) 12 Standard Devices, 6
Reduced Vertical Max Devices, 6 Incisal Guidance Devices, 2
Standard-Wide Devices, 2 Universal/Slidebar Devices, 8 Daytime
Devices, 36 Glow in the Dark Boxes, 25 "Important Patient Information"
Pamphlets, 1 Introductory and Educational CD-Rom, Packet of 25
Migraine Waiting Room Brochures, 1 NTI-TSS Users Guide, Order Form


Quantity:    
Item Price:  $560.00    


 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Mini Migraine Kit
Item # 93
(NEW ASSORTMENT - Same Number of Devices) 6 Standard Devices, 3
Reduced Vertical Max Devices, 3 Incisal Guidance Devices, 1
Standard-Wide Device, 1 Universal/Slidebar Device, 4 Daytime Devices,
18 Glow in the Dark Boxes, 12 "Important Patient Information"
Pamphlets, 1 Introductory and Educational CD-Rom, Packet of 25
Migraine Waiting Room Brochures, 1 Order Form


Quantity:    
Item Price:  $340.00    


 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Standard Kit
Item # 45
(NEW ASSORTMENT - Same Number of Devices) 12 Standard Devices, 6
Reduced Vertical Max Devices, 6 Incisal Guidance Devices, 2
Standard-Wide Devices, 2 Universal/Slidebar Devices, 28 Glow in the
Dark Boxes, 25 "Important Patient Information" Pamphlets, 1
Introductory and Educational CD-Rom, Packet of 25 TMD Waiting Room
Brochures, 1 NTI-TSS Users Guide, Order Form


Quantity:    
Item Price:  $525.00    


 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Mini-Standard Kit
Item # 59
10 Standard Devices, 10 Glow in the Dark Boxes, 10 "Important Patient
Information" Pamphlets, 1 Introductory and Educational CD-Rom, Packet
of 10 TMD Waiting Room Brochures, Order Form. 10% discount on orders
of this product in quantities of 5 (5, 10, 15, etc.)


Quantity:    
Item Price:  $220.00    


 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Standard-Wide Mini Kit
Item # 106
10 Standard-Wide Devices, 10 Glow in the Dark Boxes, 10 "Important
Patient Information" Pamphlets, 1 Introductory and Educational CD-Rom,
Packet of 10 TMD Waiting Room Brochures, Order Form


Quantity:    
Item Price:  $215.00    


 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Daytime Kit
Item # 92
10 Daytime Devices, 10 Glow in the Dark Boxes, 10 "Important Patient
Information" Pamphlets, 1 Introductory and Educational CD-Rom, Packet
of 10 Migraine Waiting Room Brochures, Order Form


Quantity:    
Item Price:  $212.00    


 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Standard Reduced Vertical - Maxillary Device Kit
Item # 90
10 Reduced Vertical Maxillary Devices, 10 Glow in the Dark Boxes, 10
"Important Patient Information" Pamphlets, 1 Introductory and
Educational CD-Rom, 1 NTI-TSS Users Guide, Packet of 10 TMD Waiting
Room Brochures, Order Form


Quantity:    
Item Price:  $220.00    


 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 IG (Incisal Guidance) Refill Kit
Item # 95
10 IG (Incisal Guidance) Devices, 10 Glow in the Dark Boxes, 10
"Important Patient Information" Pamphlets, 1 Introductory and
Educational CD-Rom, 1 NTI-TSS User's Guide; Packet of 10 TMD Waiting
Room Brochures, Order Form.


Quantity:    
Item Price:  $220.00    


 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Trial Kit
Item # 46
3 Standard Devices, 1 RV Max Device, 1 IG Device, 1 Standard-Wide
Device, 1 Universal/Slidebar Device, 2 Daytime Devices, 9 Glow in the
Dark Boxes, Dispensing Bulb, 1 SNAP Powder, 1 SNAP Monomer, 10
Important Patient Information Pamphlets, Introductory and Educational
CD-Rom, 5 Migraine and 5 TMD Waiting Room Brochures, 1 NTI-TSS Users
Guide, Order Form (Due to the Liquid Monomer component, not available
for overnight shipping or shipping to Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico or
Virgin Islands)


Quantity:    
Item Price:  $205.00    


 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Alternate Trial Kit (Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Overnight)
Item # 99
3 Standard Devices, 1 RV Max Device, 1 IG Device, 1 Standard-Wide
Device, 1 Universal/Slidebar Device, 2 Daytime Devices, 9 Glow in the
Dark Boxes, 4 oz. jar of Thermoplastic Beads, 10 "Important Patient
Information" Pamphlets, Introductory and Educational CD-Rom, 5
Migraine and 5 TMD Waiting Room Brochures, 1 NTI-TSS Users Guide,
Order Form (This kit may be shipped overnight for $35 fee)


Quantity:    
Item Price:  $205.00    


 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Thermalplastic Beads Refill Kit (New Product)
Item # 35
4 jars (4 oz each) Thermalplastic Beads and instructions


Quantity:    
Item Price:  $20.00    


 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 4 oz. bottle of Snap Liquid Monomer
Item # 38
Not available for delivery to Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico or Virgin
Islands


Quantity:    
Item Price:  $16.00    


 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 40 gram bottle Snap Resin Powder
Item # 15


Quantity:    
Item Price:  $13.00    


 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 24 Glow in the dark patient device holders
Item # 19


Quantity:    
Item Price:  $10.00    


 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Thermaplastic Liners
Item # 30
Box of 24 1 inch by 1 inch Thermoplastic Squares
(AVAILABLE BY PHONE ONLY)


Quantity:    
Item Price:  $24.00    


 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 50 Waiting Room Migraine brochures (50ct/bundle)
Item # 61
Package of 50 Migraine Waiting Room Brochures


Quantity:    
Item Price:  $8.00    


 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 50 Spanish Waiting Room Migraine brochures (50ct/bundle)
Item # 85
Package of 50 Migraine Waiting Room Brochures in SPANISH


Quantity:    
Item Price:  $8.00    


 

Tim Dixon - 14 Sep 2005 14:12 GMT
Thats the way it is.  It all comes down to the patent.  Of course you can
fabricate chairside using materials in your own office, and NTI has even
given a tutorial on how to do it.  The national average for an NTI to the
patient is around 450$, however, under medical insurance for migraine
prevention, you may be able to bill insurance for considerable more.

> Whot?
>
[quoted text clipped - 194 lines]
> Quantity:
> Item Price:  $8.00
Joel M. Eichen - 15 Sep 2005 11:26 GMT
Okay then I am against it.

This is why health care is going through the roof and threatens to
bankrupt the U.S. Its 16% of G.D.P.

Corporations respond by looking overseas for manufacturing.

We all lose in the long run.

I bet you had no idea that NTIs were the harbinger of the downfall of
the U.S.?

Joel

>Thats the way it is.  It all comes down to the patent.  Of course you can
>fabricate chairside using materials in your own office, and NTI has even
[quoted text clipped - 200 lines]
>> Quantity:
>> Item Price:  $8.00
Tim Dixon - 15 Sep 2005 14:03 GMT
hahaha well the tooling is made in the USA, the devices are made in the USA,
the corporation is in the USA and the patent holder lives in the USA.

> Okay then I am against it.
>
[quoted text clipped - 214 lines]
>>> Quantity:
>>> Item Price:  $8.00
Joel M. Eichen - 15 Sep 2005 15:40 GMT
Yeah PLASTICS, my boy. You got to go into plastics (1967)!

Line from the Graduate!

Dustin Hoffman movie.

The manufacturing of cheap plastics represent twenty or thirty cents a
pop. The insurance companies that charge General Motors and Delta
Airlines hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars to pay for
health care are what's bankrupting the country!

Joel

Literally so. Corporations are dumping pension obligations through
Chapter 11 and foisting it off onto the U.S. government.

>hahaha well the tooling is made in the USA, the devices are made in the USA,
>the corporation is in the USA and the patent holder lives in the USA.
[quoted text clipped - 217 lines]
>>>> Quantity:
>>>> Item Price:  $8.00
Steven Fawks - 15 Sep 2005 17:37 GMT
You have to be kidding.  $25 for a pre-fab shell (plus
instructions/resources/etc.) to make an NTI has you
"against" the treatment?

It cost me that much just to sit a patient in the chair
and then dismiss them without any treatment!

The alternative involves much more time, plus lots more
steps to come up with a similar device.  That is what
makes no economic sense.

You also do not realize that a simple NTI can SAVE big
bucks in prescription (& OTC) meds, preventing fractured
teeth (crowns & endo), and just trip after trip to the
dentist and physician searching for pain relief.

Fawks

> Okay then I am against it.
>
[quoted text clipped - 214 lines]
>>>Quantity:
>>>Item Price:  $8.00
Joel M. Eichen - 16 Sep 2005 02:58 GMT
>You have to be kidding.  $25 for a pre-fab shell (plus
>instructions/resources/etc.) to make an NTI has you
>"against" the treatment?

No I am against bankrupting American corporations with procedures that
are not life-threatening, or are not invasive and/or debilitating.

As example, Periostat revenue was $60 million a few years ago. What
does it accomplish? I cannot find studies that tell me it works.

Filling a cavity reduces future expenses.

You guys claim an NTI reduces huge costs downstream but I am not so
sure about the epidemiology.

How come 30-40 years ago, one patient out of a thousand had this kind
of problem? Today its not one out of one thousand. What's changed?

Joel

>It cost me that much just to sit a patient in the chair
>and then dismiss them without any treatment!
[quoted text clipped - 228 lines]
>>>>Quantity:
>>>>Item Price:  $8.00
Steven Fawks - 16 Sep 2005 13:41 GMT
They had it, but no one treated it because they didn't understand and
they had no treatment to offer.  Also, most people lost their teeth
heading through middle age and ended up with dentures.  The only sign
left that a dentist observed was broken dentures and denture teeth.

In the early sixties the average 65 yr.-old had SIX teeth.  Considering
how averages worked that meant that a few people had most of their teeth
and everyone else had ZERO.

Thirty years later that number rose to over 20 teeth.  Again, with
averages, most people had most of their teeth and a few had zero.

Most of my NTI construction is with patients over 40.

JME,
Fawks

> How come 30-40 years ago, one patient out of a thousand had this kind
> of problem? Today its not one out of one thousand. What's changed?
>
> Joel
Joel M. Eichen - 17 Sep 2005 02:19 GMT
>They had it, but no one treated it because they didn't understand and
>they had no treatment to offer.

If they had it, did anyone report symptoms? I recall speaking to
thousands, in fact tens of thousands of patients and it was rare guy
with anything like that.

The exceptions came about when dentists started doing bilateral crowns
.... for fear the patient would not follow through with treatment.

Joel

Also, most people lost their teeth
>heading through middle age and ended up with dentures.  The only sign
>left that a dentist observed was broken dentures and denture teeth.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>>
>> Joel
Steven Fawks - 19 Sep 2005 21:10 GMT
I saw lots of patients when I was fresh out of dental school (and for
many years thereafter) who came to me with the same symptoms that I
see now.  The only difference was that I could not help them. Trying to
say that this is something new is simply untrue.

Phrases I used to use almost daily:

"I can see no reason that your teeth should be causing you pain"
"Jaw pain is something that I have not had much success treating"
"Your teeth are wearing down way too fast"
"I can refer you to an orthodontist to see if they can help"
"I don't know why that tooth fractured"
"Are you sure that you don't use a hard tooth brush and saw
back and forth at the gumline?"

There is a word LL uses that may have an implication here.

;-)
Fawks

>>They had it, but no one treated it because they didn't understand and
>>they had no treatment to offer.
>
> If they had it, did anyone report symptoms? I recall speaking to
> thousands, in fact tens of thousands of patients and it was rare guy
> with anything like that.

> Joel
Amatus Cremona - 19 Sep 2005 21:26 GMT
> There is a word LL uses that may have an implication here.

Lois Lane ?

Signature

/

Amatus

/

>
> I saw lots of patients when I was fresh out of dental school (and for
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
>> Joel
letsconnect2 - 20 Sep 2005 01:22 GMT
>> There is a word LL uses that may have an implication here.
>
>Lois Lane ?

Freddie Mercury?

I can't take the suspense...
W_B - 19 Sep 2005 21:43 GMT
>There is a word LL uses that may have an implication here.
>
>;-)
>Fawks

Liar ?
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Tim Dixon - 16 Sep 2005 14:39 GMT
>>You have to be kidding.  $25 for a pre-fab shell (plus
>>instructions/resources/etc.) to make an NTI has you
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> How come 30-40 years ago, one patient out of a thousand had this kind
> of problem? Today its not one out of one thousand. What's changed?

I suppose it depends on what you are treating.  SWF for example uses NTI's for all sorts of patients as he has stated many times, this small investment on his part helps protect the work he has previously done.  Sure he could fabricate something, but not as quickly as he can with an NTI.

Then there are the medically diagnosed migraine patients.  I heard somewhere that the average migraine patient who has been treated by an MD for 5 to 15 years is spending somewhere in the neighborhood of 5000.00$ to 13,000.00$ of insurance money annually for their migraines.  So along comes the NTI, gets a migraine indication from FDA for prevention of medically diagnosed migraine and peoples lives are forever changed.  And because it can be billed to med. ins. most insurance companies are as happy as all get up to pay 1000.00 every few years for an NTI vs. 10's of thousands. But who is the happiest?  The patient would be my bet, because all they want is relief.  Dr. Boyd see's dozens of medically diagnosed migraine patients each week in a neurologists office where the first line of defense *now* is an NTI.  That neuro will tell you that there are approx. 20 million patients they can't help because there are not enough neuro's to treat them.

Soon there will be some newly published literature on NTI that will alter the way neuros have previously treated migraine.

Joel and others, my suggestion is you go view these videos that I shot on May 19, 2005.  These flash videos don't compare with the DVD version, but for educational purposes online they serve you well.

(Main collection, 4hrs in duration)
http://www.nti-tss.com/mxv/drboyd5-19-05.html

(54) Migraine diagnosis and etiology)
http://www.nti-tss.com/mxv/54.html

(55) Trigeminal motor and afferent effect on migraine)
http://www.nti-tss.com/mxv/55.html  

(60) Sympathetic Tension-Migraine Cycle)
http://www.nti-tss.com/mxv/60.html

(61) NTI Migraine FDA clinical trials)
http://www.nti-tss.com/mxv/61.html

(62) Clenching is a trigger enhancer)
http://www.nti-tss.com/mxv/62.html
W_B - 16 Sep 2005 16:01 GMT
>How come 30-40 years ago, one patient out of a thousand had this kind
>of problem? Today its not one out of one thousand. What's changed?
>
>Joel

Better diagnosis.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Joel M. Eichen - 17 Sep 2005 02:20 GMT
>>How come 30-40 years ago, one patient out of a thousand had this kind
>>of problem? Today its not one out of one thousand. What's changed?
>>
>>Joel
>
>Better diagnosis.

DOC: "Any symptoms?"

Parient: "Nope."

DOC: "Okay, that means you got TMJ."
W_B - 19 Sep 2005 19:19 GMT
>>>How come 30-40 years ago, one patient out of a thousand had this kind
>>>of problem? Today its not one out of one thousand. What's changed?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>DOC: "Okay, that means you got TMJ."

Incisal edges worn through the enamel, abfractions, fractured teeth,
multiple crowns.

Those sound like symptoms to me.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Stovepipe - 20 Sep 2005 04:41 GMT
First, Sue Madden ( I MEAN:  JME!!!!) wrote:

> >DOC: "Any symptoms?"
> >
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Those sound like symptoms to me.
> --

Lady came in for her cleaning and exam today. Not too long ago, I had
done an MOL in Filtek Z-250 with their own flowable hybrid as well...

"Well it hurts when I eat cold or hot. "

<The pipe takes out his Fuji 6900Z digital with the 4X close up lens
attached and plugs it into the VHS pluged into the Tee Vee.>

<Snap pic, no flash, just the unit light>

"Wow!!! Is that my tooth?"

"Yes: see those little yellow spots there where your cuspids (the pointy
parts) should be? "

"......Yyyyeeessss...?......"

"Well, I covered those seven months ago and I told you I think you need
protection for that tooth and the others as well. I even wrote it in
here in the dossier. Now: see how you close your teeth together? It's
like the lower tooth is acting like a sledge hammer destroying the top
one"

"....wwhhmmasdf fgsgbm hmmmffffffff...."

" I Don't really feel like crowning all your teeth, and doing root
canals on them, and etc..... Neither do YOU. THAT's why you need an
NTI."

"......wwhhmmasdf fgsgbm hmmmffffffff...."

<The Pipe takes out the baseball bat and knocks some sense into her>

<One day, he'll write a book... NO!!!! they'd never believe him...>

;-)

SP
Signature

Take out the TRASH to reply

Steven Fawks - 20 Sep 2005 14:24 GMT
> <One day, he'll write a book... NO!!!! they'd never believe him...>
>
> ;-)
>
> SP

Some of us might.

;-(
Fawks
Amatus Cremona - 20 Sep 2005 14:29 GMT
> <One day, he'll write a book... NO!!!! they'd never believe him...>

I am waiting for the video

Signature

/

Amatus

/

>
>> <One day, he'll write a book... NO!!!! they'd never believe him...>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> ;-(
> Fawks
Joel M. Eichen - 21 Sep 2005 01:52 GMT
>> <One day, he'll write a book... NO!!!! they'd never believe him...>
>
>I am waiting for the video

Blockbuster has it.
Roy Brown - 20 Sep 2005 17:45 GMT
| >>>How come 30-40 years ago, one patient out of a thousand had this kind
| >>>of problem? Today its not one out of one thousand. What's changed?
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
|
| W_B

I disagree. These are signs, symptoms are what the patient reports.

Signature

Roy
rem NADA to reply

W_B - 20 Sep 2005 19:18 GMT
>| >>Better diagnosis.
>| >
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>I disagree. These are signs, symptoms are what the patient reports.

Many of my patients are aware that they are clenchers/grinders
before I even say anything. The astute patient will often point out
the wear patterns on anterior teeth to me.

Semantics aside, I suppose your term is more correct.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Joel M. Eichen - 21 Sep 2005 01:53 GMT
>Many of my patients are aware that they are clenchers/grinders
>before I even say anything. T

They are watching too much TV.
 
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