Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / September 2005
It's Time For A WAKE UP CALL!
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LadyLollipop - 12 Sep 2005 07:37 GMT Some of you seem to thing this subject is funny, it is NOT! I did a bit of searching, this is from previous posts, some do not have the URL's.
http://tinyurl.com/abwro
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/00n_1665/00N-1665-EC-07.html
http://www.yourhealthbase.com/amalgams.html
Trigeminal neuralgia linked to amalgam fillings JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA. Dr. William Cheshire, a physician at the Mayo Clinic, reports on a case where a woman's trigeminal neuralgia (tic douloureux) was traced to a galvanic reaction between an amalgam filling and an adjacent gold-alloy crown. Consumption of tomatoes and other acidic foods produced intense jolts described as being like those of an "electrical battery". The jolts in turn resulted in excruciating pain in the trigeminal nerve. Replacing the amalgam filling with a composite resolved the problem. Dr. Cheshire points out that dissimilar metals in contact with saliva can form a galvanic cell which can generate electrical currents with several hundred millivolts of potential. He points out that many patients with trigeminal neuralgia describe their pain in terms of "electrical" jolts and concludes that his patient's neuralgia may well have been triggered by the galvanic reaction between the amalgam filling and the gold crown. Cheshire, William P., Jr. The shocking tooth about trigeminal neuralgia. New England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 342, June 29, 2000, p. 2003 (correspondence)
Ortendahl TW, Hogstedt P & Holland RP. Mercury vapor release from dental amalgam in vitro caused by magnetic fields generated by CRT's and electrical cutting procedures. Swed Dent J 1991 p 31 Abstract 22
ABSTRACT: "People working in front of a cathode-ray tube screen (CRT) and who report they are negatively affected, sometimes complain about symptoms often related to "Oral galvanism". Another group of workers, occupationally exposed to magnetic fields, are divers, welding and cutting electrically under water. It has been repoerted (Ortendahl et.
al. J. Undersea Biomed Res 1988;15:443-456) that the magnetic field flux density intraoraly at a certain current and with a specific distance relation between the oral cavity and the electric cord was 1.12 mT with a specific frequency spectra. Exposure of amalgam specimens to a magnetic field with 1.15 mT (50 Hz) caused and chemical
changes on the surfaces of the dental amalgams. Therefore, the aim of the study was to analyze if work in front of a CRT-screen would have any influence on the mercury vapor release from dental amalgam. The aim was also to analyze if a magnetic field with a complex frequency spectra and a flux density of 1.15 mT would influence the mercury vapor release. Materials and Methods: 5 CRT-screens were selected as sources for the magnetic field exposure. The criterias for the selection of screens were: 1 occurring frequently in swedish officies,
2. compensated and uncompensated screens with respect to the magnetic fields. From three types of dental amalgams, representative to swedish
dentistry, cylindrical amalgam specimens were prepared and were immersed in artificial saliva in an electrolytic cell. The electrolytic cells were located exactly in front of the CRT-screens with a distance amalgam - CRT-screen of 50 cm during 6 hours. On a specific electrolytic cell, coils were adapted and supplied with a current to the electrical cutting situation. The created field had a complex frequency spectra in order to create a more realistic simulation of the in vivo situation than the earlier used 50 Hz field.
The mercury vapor release (Hg0) was registered continously and were determined by a gold-foil mercury vapor analyzer (Jerome 411). As control served amalgam specimens, not exposed to a magnetic field but immersed in the artificial saliva and a reference group which were not exposed to either the magnetic fields or artificial saliva.
Results and Conclusion: 2 of the CRT-screens significantly increased the mercury vapor release from all three types of amalgam. One of these two screens were compensated and one were uncompensated. The magnetic fields which were supposed to simulate the electrical cutting situation did not cause any increased mercury vapor release. The study was supported by The Swedish Work Environmental fund."
Newsgroups: alt.health.dental-amalgam, sci.physics.electromag, sci.med.dentistry From: Jim Barron <jdbar...@cphl.mindspring.com> - Find messages by this author Date: 1997/09/22 Subject: Re: Amalgam in EM field Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original
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Harry H Conover wrote:
> p...@tcp.co.uk wrote: > : > : Wrong. In a word, yes... its *possible*.....
> But not probable...
> : Ortendahl TW, Hogstedt P & Holland RP. Mercury vapor release from > : dental amalgam in vitro caused by magnetic fields generated by CRT's > : and electrical cutting procedures. Swed Dent J 1991 p 31 Abstract 22 > : > : ABSTRACT: "People working in front of a cathode-ray tube screen (CRT) > : and who report they are negatively affected, sometimes complain about > : symptoms often related to "Oral galvanism". Another group of workers, > : occupationally exposed to magnetic fields, are divers, welding and > : cutting electrically under water.
> Doesn't it seem strange that this phenomenon has not been reported or > observed by those working around really strong fields? Things like > power distribution substantion, nuclear particle accelerators, or > similar situations in comparison to which exposure to the stray > magnetic fields from CRT deflection yokes as the like would be...ah... > more or less insignificant? Actually it doesn't seem strange at all: Since no one has apparently scientificly studied this effect, your idea that the effect should be linearly related to the strength of the EMF field is ONLY a **conjecture**. Many biological effects are NOT linear and, without scientific experiments or good theoretical basis for believeing that the effect IS linear (or at least steadily increasing) the "jury is still out". I *DO* know that I DO have currents in my teeth (measured at up to 400 mV) and that they are very strongly affected by magnetic fields (on of the reasons I have been so absent from this group is that I have been unable to sit in front of my CRT monitor for more than a very short period without severe problems from the currents in my teeth (which problems markedly reduced each time a quadrant of fillings was removed - only one left to go!)
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> : It has been repoerted (Ortendahl et. > : al. J. Undersea Biomed Res 1988;15:443-456) that the magnetic field > : flux density intraoraly at a certain current and with a specific > : distance relation between the oral cavity and the electric cord was > : 1.12 mT with a specific frequency spectra.
> [snip]
> It's nice to see that research is being done. Since I don't have any > access to this paper [even at the MIT library], would it be possible > for your to post that portion of this paper addressing experimental > error analysis (noise bars) and, reflecting the content of that error > analysis, the statistical significance of this work?
> Pardon me for being a skeptic, but the thought does occur that the > magnetic field resulting from a computer monitor (unless it is one > of incredibly poor design) is many orders of magnetude less than > the ambient electromagnetic field characteristics of the environment > in which that computer monitor is typically located. This is precisely > why monitor design focuses on protecting the monitor functioning from > the effects of the environment, and not the converse. This is grossly oversimplistic. EMFs have many important properties OTHER than just strength (frequency, variable or constant, etc.) any of which could possibly be just as, or even more, important than mere strength.
> This would, of course, not be the case if you were running your computer > from a DC battery pack on an isolated mountain peak in the Andes, in which > case the computer monitor just might be the prime contributor to the EM > environment. Interestingly enough I can work at my PORTABLE computer (which has a liquid crystal display, hence no CRT tube (and no variable EMF)) for many hours a day for days on end with NO problems whatsoever. But a few hours in front of a CRT tube would be devestating (FORGET about sleeping!)
Short of this somewhat idealistic situation, ED radiation
> from the computer monitor is totally lost in the backgound noise (at > least from galvanic action considerations.) If this is SO (and my experience indicates that you are just GUESSING (incorrectly!) on this one) perhaps you could explain why the hairs on the back of my hand stick straigt out when they get near my monitor? And they DON'T in the same area when the monitor is off?
> Sorry, I just don't buy it! You have, or course, a right to your OPINION. But an opinion with NOTHING to back it up means little.
If you believe your computer monitor is the
> source of your health problems, the problem is a personal, internal one, > and not something to be blamed on technology. Perhaps "I think" might be more appropriate than "is"?
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> Repreating my previous advice: If you suffer from problems like this, > consider a program that exposes you to actual pain or psychological > stress. Probably 'Outward Bound' is the best, but in a pinch you > could try white water rafting, sky diving, bungi jumping, or any other > activity that subjects you to real jeapardy.
> It's amazing how insignificant your computer monitor will become after > a few real-life stressful experiences. After all, it worked for Teddy > Roosevelt, didn't it?
> Harry C.
> p.s., I received several 'hate mail' articles after my past post. I > wonder how many more this one will attract? Realize, if I > considered what I am posting to be bad advice, I truly wouldn't > have posted it. It's simply that some people do need a 'wakeup > call.' I would suggest that the reason you receive what you perceive as "hate mail" is that 1) you seem to express an (apparently) unjustified certainty on things about which you give no sound basis for your *opinion* AND 2) you, in effect, "blame the victim" for his/her problem. (Easy to do when it's not YOUR problem!) Such dogmatic attributions of problems to "psychogenic" origins (all too common in medicine and almost invariably WRONG (vitrually every medical problem was attributed to "psycogenic" origins at some point (before it was eventually understood)). Some amount of reactive animosity is, IMHO understandable, although not the most effective or desireable reaction.
IME (in my experience), angry replies are usually a result of the WAY and MANNER in which ideas were expressed (inappropriate certainty, disparaging other's valid observations, etc.) rather than to the ideas themselves.
Also consider that, in the case of amalgam, those who, for MANY good reasons, feel that they have been systematically poisioned by a profession that has studiously avoided adequately investigating the amalgam safety issue for well over a century, have a good deal of understandable resentment, distrust and anger. Sometimes we forget that a lot of dentists have been "victimized" with the same hogwash that has been fed to patients. (But we DO feel that they were a lot more gullible than is really justifiable.)
jdbar...@mindspring.com
(another poster wrote)
Watch the tooth voltage readings. Most millivolt meters will measure voltages when the probes are put in the mouth. Saliva is a good electrolyte and when combined with fillings and meter probes forms a very effective battery.
Newsgroups: alt.health.dental-amalgam, sci.physics.electromag, sci.med.dentistry From: micromercur...@geocities.com - Find messages by this author Date: 1997/09/22 Subject: Re: Amalgam in EM field Reply to Author | Forward | Print | View Thread | Show original | Report Abuse
Harry H Conover wrote:
> Harry C.
> p.s., I received several 'hate mail' articles after my past post. I > wonder how many more this one will attract? Realize, if I > considered what I am posting to be bad advice, I truly wouldn't > have posted it. It's simply that some people do need a 'wakeup > call.' Please do a search there is more on CRT its a matter of the frequency given off, there was only one computer that did not produce this effect and it was an IBM model.
Below the symptoms are no different its just a matter of time, if only we could all wake up.
Regards micromercurial http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/2888/
Scientist Karen Wetterhan 1949 - 1997
Mercury Changed Scientist's Life
It was just a drop of liquid, just a tiny glistening drop. It glided over her glove like a jewel.
Scientist Karen Wetterhan knew the risks: The bad stuff kills if you get too close.
She took all the precautions working with mercury in her Dartmouth College lab -- wearing protective gloves and eye goggles, working under a ventilated hood that sucks up chemical fumes.
So on that sunny day in August, when she accidentally spilled a drop, she didn't think anything of it. She washed her hands, cleaned her instruments and went home.
It was just a drop of liquid, just a tiny glistening drop.
At first, friends thought she had caught a stomach bug on her trip to Malaysia. It wasn't until she started bumping into doors that her husband, Leon Webb, began to worry. Karen, always so focused, always so sure of her next step, was suddenly falling down as if she were drunk.
In 15 years together, she had never been sick, never stopped working, never complained. Leon was stunned when she called for a ride home from work.
Over lunch a few days later, Karen confided to her best friend, Cathy Johnson, that she hadn't felt right for some time. Words seemed to be getting stuck in her throat. Her hands tingled. It felt like her whole body was moving in slow motion.
"Karen," Johnson said as she drove her back to the college, "we've got to get you to the hospital."
"After work," Karen promised, walking unsteadily into the Burke chemistry building for the last time.
That night, Leon drove her to the emergency room. It was Monday, Jan. 20, 1997, five months since she had spilled the drop in the lab.
Just a single drop of liquid. Yet somehow it had penetrated her skin.
By the weekend, Karen couldn't walk, her speech was slurred and her hands trembled. Leon paced the house. "Virus" seemed an awfully vague diagnosis for symptoms that were getting worse every day.
"It's mercury poisoning," Dr. David Nierenberg said. "We have to start treatment immediately."
Leon hung up with relief. At last, they understood the problem. Now maybe they could fix it.
It seemed impossible to believe that anything could be wrong with Karen Wetterhahn, one of those quietly impressive individuals whose lives seemed charmed from the start.
Serious and hardworking, she excelled at everything she turned to -- science or sailing or skiing. She grew up near Lake Champlain in upstate New York in a family so close that when she and her only sister became mothers, they named their daughters after each other: Charlotte and Karen.
Karen was always the brilliant one of the family, the one who would do great things. And she did, becoming the first woman chemistry professor at Dartmouth, running a world-renowned laboratory on chromium research, devoting herself to her work.
It was important work, the kind that could lead to cures for cancer and AIDS. Karen thrived on it. She loved nothing more than experimenting with a chemical, figuring out its bad side and how it breaks down living things.
In the often cutthroat world of scientific research and ideas, where work is judged in academic journals and egos are as enormous as intellects, Karen stood out. Other professors would send their students to her office just to meet her. Talk to Karen, they would say.
See how you can balance the demands of work and life and still be on top of your field.
The only place on Earth more precious than her lab was the dark cedar house that Leon, a mason, had built with his own hands. Home was Karen's haven, her retreat from the rarefied halls of Ivy League academia.
Here, in the pretty village of Lyme, at the top of a hill at the end of a dirt road, she would listen to rock music -- heavy metal was her favorite -- and tend her garden.
Here, science came second to 12-year-old Charlotte's baby rabbits, 14-year-old Ashley's mountain bikes, Todd the goat and Dillon the pony.
At home, she would throw great neighborhood parties by the pool, or gather up the family and drag them off to the golf course, or the tennis court, or Ashley's hockey game.
"We never knew she was a world-famous scientist," one neighbor said afterward. "She was just Char and Ashley's mom."
Mercury poisoning.
Karen beamed when she heard the news. Finally, something she understood. Something she could explain. They would feed her fat white nasty-tasting pills that would flush the poison out of her system.
Science would cure her, she told her husband, giddy with excitement as she sat in bed surrounded by her children and her notes.
"Karen was happy, so I was happy," Leon says now. "We just didn't know."
How could they have known? Back in January, virtually nothing was known about the extraordinary dangers of dimethylmercury, the rare man-made compound Karen had spilled. Scientists didn't know it could seep through a latex glove like a drop of water through a Kleenex. Doctors didn't know it could break down the body over the course of a few months, slowly, insidiously, irreversibly.
Above all, no one knew how to stop its deadly progress, as it cut off her hearing, her speech, her vision, reducing her body to a withered shell.
Today, because of Karen, the world knows so much more.
Quicksilver, as mercury is called, has long played a sinister game of seduction with science. One of the world's oldest metals, it comes in various forms -- some that heal, some that kill. Dimethlymercury, a colorless liquid that looks like water but is three times heavier, is far more toxic than other forms -- the kind used in thermometers and batteries and medicine. It's made purely for research and is rarely used.
Aug. 14, 1996. Just one shimmering drop. Now, six months later, Karen's body was riddled with it.
Karen was the one who remembered the spill. It nagged away at her in the hospital as she underwent CT scans and spinal taps and tests for everything except chemical poisoning.
But I work with mercury, she said. Shouldn't I be tested for the bad stuff?
The results plagued the doctors even more: Why had it taken so long for the symptoms to show? What kind of brain damage had already occurred? Had anyone else been exposed? Was she contagious?
And the question that still stings Leon's heart, the one that still seems almost obscene: "Does your wife have any enemies?"
"Enemies!" he whispers incredulously through tears. "Karen didn't have enemies. Everyone loved her."
She was easy to love, this tall athletic woman with the deep infectious laugh. Comfortable to talk to. Always there for students, colleagues and friends.
And for Leon.
In some ways, they seemed an unlikely match: Leon, 40, the son of a Vermont dairy farmer who decided early on that masonry was more profitable than milking cows, and Karen, 48, the daughter of a chemist, the brilliant teacher and scholar. They had an easy comfort with each other. She would watch him coach Charlotte's basketball team; he would accompany her on lecture trips to Italy, Norway and Hawaii.
"She was always interested in what I was doing," he says often, as if he somehow has to explain.
He always knew her work was important but, since the accident, he has made an effort to really understand it. Today, he can recite her resume almost by heart: the awards she won as a doctoral student at Columbia, where her research on platinum was considered the most exciting of its kind, the Women in Science mentoring program she started at Dartmouth, the $7 million federal grant she won to study toxic metals.
She didn't talk much about work at home, except the grant, the largest in the college history. "She was so proud of that," he says.
The mercury research she was doing with Harvard and MIT was just something on the side, Leon explains. Chromium was Karen's real area of expertise.
He shakes his head at the irony. Who could have imagined that the builder would eventually learn more than the scientist about the perils of dimethlymercury?
Others were learning, too. At Dartmouth Medical Center, Dr. David Nierenberg scoured the medical literature for clues about how to treat his colleague and friend. A mile away in his campus office, two doors down from Karen's, John Winn, head of Dartmouth's chemistry department, grabbed every paper on mercury he could find.
The more her colleagues read, the more their hearts sank.
There was only one documented case of dimethlymercury poisoning this century, a Czech chemist in 1972 who had suffered the same symptoms as Karen and died. A handful of people had been exposed directly to pure methlymercury, another toxic mercury compound, and died. More well-known mercury poisoning epidemics, like those in Iraq in the 1970s and Japan in the 1950s, involved exposure to foods contaminated by methylmercury.
There was no telling if dimethlymercury would act the same way.
Karen herself was beginning to understand. There was a desperate look on her face as she pointed to the clock when it was time to take her pills. Still, she kept up a brave face, kept saying not to worry.
"Even if I don't fully recover, maybe I'll get well enough to ride again," she whispered to her horse-riding friend and fellow scientist, Jacqueline Sinclair.
And when the hospital psychologist asked if she was depressed, she smiled. Wouldn't you be? she replied.
That was Jan. 31, three days after the diagnosis. A week later, Karen was transferred to Massachusetts General Hospital for a massive blood transfusion that nearly killed her.
Leon was pacing at home again, torn between honoring his wife's wish not to alert her parents and the feeling that she was sinking faster than she knew.
The phone rang. The nurse said Karen wanted to talk to her son.
From her hospital bed, the mother struggled. She drooled and moaned and the words just wouldn't come. Ashley waited uncomfortably. He didn't like the sounds. He didn't like the silence.
"Hi, Mom," he coaxed, loud so she might hear. It was useless. The nurse ended the torture and took the phone.
"She just wanted to say goodnight," Ashley says, bowing his head to hide the tears when he remembers the last time he talked to his Mom. "She couldn't even say goodnight."
Others remember final moments, too, although everything was happening so fast they didn't seem like goodbyes at the time. But friends could see the toll on the scientist's mind and body. They could see her faith fading, even as she continued to talk about being back on her feet for her new spring course. The day the ambulance came to take her to Massachusetts, she cried uncontrollably.
"I think that's when she knew," says Nadia Gorman, remembering how she tried to comfort her friend and colleague as she wondered if she would ever talk to her again. "There was a feeling of total tragedy in the air."
In the ambulance, Karen told Cathy Johnson for the first time in their 15-year friendship that she loved her. In the hospital, she struggled to point to the letters "N" and "H" on her alphabet board. Leon nodded. He promised that, whatever the outcome, he would take her home, to New Hampshire.
"As a nonscientist, I couldn't comprehend it all," says Provost Jim Wright, Karen's friend and former boss. "And the scientist I had been accustomed to turn to for answers was not available to help me."
Doctors didn't have answers either. They turned to Thomas Clarkson at the University of Rochester in New York, who had set up clinics in Iraq during the epidemic there in the 1970s, when hundreds of people died after eating mercury-poisoned bread.
His lab stopped everything to help, testing Karen's hair and blood samples, ordering a batch of dimethlymercury to begin its own tests.
"I felt such a sense of helplessness," Clarkson says. "Here was one of the world's most distinguished scientists, and I was looking at this woman dying realizing there is nothing the scientific or medical communities can do."
Karen's lab was shut down. Her family, students and co-workers were tested. Her hospital room was checked for airborne mercury from her breath. Federal environmental and health agencies were alerted, as was the state health department. Her car and clothes and house were sniffed with mercury-detectors.
E-mails flew around campus, and around the country. Students emptied libraries of books on mercury, staying up all night to translate obscure research papers, seizing on any sliver of information they could find.
"There would be this elation when we found a study about someone that had been cured," Gorman says, "then crying when we read that the end point for those who went into a coma was death."
Scientists and doctors around the world offered their services.
"It was an extraordinary outpouring," Nierenberg says.
But Karen was slipping too fast to appreciate it. Ten days after the diagnosis, on Feb. 7, she fell into a coma in Massachusetts. Leon told the doctors he was taking her home.
Back at Dartmouth Hitchcock, her family kept vigil by her bedside, her parents and sister talking to her as her body thrashed and moaned. Leon plastered the walls with cards and photographs: Karen on the golf course, at Disney World with the kids, lunch with her friends Cathy and Nadia, shaking hands with President Clinton at graduation ceremonies in 1996.
Just a tiny drop of poison. And she was fighting it with all her might.
It became too difficult for the children to visit. Even friends stayed home, waiting for the phone call that would tell them it was over.
Her husband stroked her face. Her sister and her best friend washed her hair. Doctors tried treatments never attempted on humans before.
But they couldn't save her from the poison. On June 8, it took her life.
"She didn't suffer," Ashley told his eighth-grade class the next day. "She just stopped breathing."
It was 10 months since she had spilled the drop in the lab, four months after she had slipped into a coma.
Karen Wetterhahn's death was as extraordinary as her life and, in many ways, just as important. Perhaps she had an idea that it would be.
While she could still speak, she urged doctors and scientists to learn everything they could from her accident and to warn the world about the dangers.
The world has already learned so much. It learned that the gloves that were supposed to protect her actually acted as a conductor to the poison. It learned that dimethlymercury, so easy to order in research catalogs, is more deadly than anyone had imagined. Saddest of all, it learned that by the time the symptoms showed, it was too late.
There is much more to learn, as scientists and doctors study her case. There will be studies and papers, symposiums and tributes. There may even be new federal regulations and mandatory blood tests for scientists who work with heavy metals. There is talk of banning dimethlymercury for good. And talk of turning her hospital room into a nurses' lounge and naming it for Karen.
Her funeral took place on a hot summer day to the strains of a flute and a choir singing "Be Not Afraid."
In the packed college chapel, the sense of betrayal was as powerful as the sense of loss. Colleagues wept as they eulogized a modern-day Madame Curie who had sacrificed her life to her cause.
What good was pushing back the boundaries of human knowledge, they cried, if they had to bury one of their own?
Alone and bewildered, Leon sat in the front pew, looking out of place in his dark funeral suit, tears streaming down his face.
It all seemed like a dream, he says later. No, he corrects himself -- a nightmare.
He still wakes in the middle of the night and wonders if it's true, or if Karen is just off on another trip. He still half expects her to come striding through the door with her laptop and her notes and her big, big smile to rustle up some tacos for dinner.
He picks up the picture of Karen working in her lab, a study of intensity in her goggles and gloves, staring at her test tubes and vials.
"She loved her work," he says. "It made her happy."
She couldn't have known the risks. She couldn't have known how bad the bad stuff really was. Truth is, no one knew.
Just a tiny drop of liquid. Sweet-smelling. Dense. Deadly.
[ASSOCIATED PRESS, LYME, N.H., September 13, 1997
george1234 - 12 Sep 2005 18:52 GMT >... >traced to a galvanic reaction between an amalgam filling and an adjacent >gold-alloy crown. Consumption of tomatoes and other acidic foods produced >intense jolts described as being like those of an "electrical battery" I'd call that a wake up call... now the only problem is how to get her to eat tomatoes before she wakes up
dr shad j lewis (via google) - 12 Sep 2005 19:59 GMT yawn
Clinton - 12 Sep 2005 22:14 GMT > yawn Before one can be bored , they first have to be able to comprehend what is being said.
LadyLollipop - 12 Sep 2005 23:36 GMT billkatz - 12 Sep 2005 20:53 GMT > I'd call that a wake up call... now the only problem is how to get her > to eat tomatoes before she wakes up It could be some of those new fangled Faradic tomatoes you know...
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg15621102.200.html
LadyLollipop - 12 Sep 2005 23:45 GMT >> I'd call that a wake up call... now the only problem is how to get her >> to eat tomatoes before she wakes up > > It could be some of those new fangled Faradic tomatoes you know... > > http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg15621102.200.html It could be that the dentists here could care less if anyone suffers with:
Trigeminal neuralgia
http://www.tna-support.org/newlook/definition.htm
Trigeminal neuralgia (TN) is not fatal, but it is universally considered to be the most painful affliction known to medical practice.
Their response is jokes and
yawn.
LadyLollipop - 12 Sep 2005 23:35 GMT "george1234" <george1234pds@excite.com> wrote in message
Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived This message will be removed from Groups in 6 days (Sep 19, 12:52 pm).
I see, another one of those chicken posters who is afraid of having his posts to be archived.
Translation.
I am a troll, here to harass.
news:r1gbi193cqfonpcc9quoa679isi8ivks55@4ax.com...
>>... >>traced to a galvanic reaction between an amalgam filling and an adjacent [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I'd call that a wake up call... now the only problem is how to get her > to eat tomatoes before she wakes up The problem is the usual one, you snipped and pick out a certain part, so you could belittle.
So very typical.
So exactly which part of Trigeminal neuralgia, do you find, funny?
Did you find the jolts in turn resulted in excruciating pain in the trigeminal nerve, to be funny?
Did you note that replacing the amalgam filling with a composite resolved the problem?
Did you note Dr. Cheshire points out that dissimilar metals in contact with saliva can form a galvanic cell which can generate electrical currents with several hundred millivolts of potential. He points out that many patients with trigeminal neuralgia describe their pain in terms of "electrical" jolts and concludes that his patient's neuralgia may well have been triggered by the galvanic reaction between the amalgam filling and the gold crown?
I thought not. None of that matters to you, you are just a troll, here to harass. http://www.yourhealthbase.com/amalgams.html
Trigeminal neuralgia linked to amalgam fillings JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA. Dr. William Cheshire, a physician at the Mayo Clinic, reports on a case where a woman's trigeminal neuralgia (tic douloureux) was traced to a galvanic reaction between an amalgam filling and an adjacent gold-alloy crown. Consumption of tomatoes and other acidic foods produced intense jolts described as being like those of an "electrical battery". The jolts in turn resulted in excruciating pain in the trigeminal nerve. Replacing the amalgam filling with a composite resolved the problem. Dr. Cheshire points out that dissimilar metals in contact with saliva can form a galvanic cell which can generate electrical currents with several hundred millivolts of potential. He points out that many patients with trigeminal neuralgia describe their pain in terms of "electrical" jolts and concludes that his patient's neuralgia may well have been triggered by the galvanic reaction between the amalgam filling and the gold crown. Cheshire, William P., Jr. The shocking tooth about trigeminal neuralgia. New England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 342, June 29, 2000, p. 2003 (correspondence)
george1234 - 13 Sep 2005 15:31 GMT >I am a troll, here to harass. Sorry to hear that.. do you know How to plok you in agent?
LadyLollipop - 14 Sep 2005 00:54 GMT I see you you didn't post what I wrote, you are very dishonest.
What I wrote was:
"george1234" <george1234...@excite.com> wrote in message
Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived This message will be removed from Groups in 6 days (Sep 19, 12:52 pm).
I see, another one of those chicken posters who is afraid of having his posts to be archived.
Translation.
I am a troll, here to harass.
Now back to the subject:
Some of you seem to thing this subject is funny, it is NOT! I did a bit of searching, this is from previous posts, some do not have the URL's.
http://tinyurl.com/abwro
http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/00n_1665/00N-1665-EC-07.html
http://www.yourhealthbase.com/amalgams.html
Trigeminal neuralgia linked to amalgam fillings JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA. Dr. William Cheshire, a physician at the Mayo Clinic, reports on a case where a woman's trigeminal neuralgia (tic douloureux) was traced to a galvanic reaction between an amalgam filling and an adjacent gold-alloy crown. Consumption of tomatoes and other acidic foods produced intense jolts described as being like those of an "electrical battery". The jolts in turn resulted in excruciating pain in the trigeminal nerve. Replacing the amalgam filling with a composite resolved the problem. Dr. Cheshire points out that dissimilar metals in contact with saliva can form a galvanic cell which can generate electrical currents with several hundred millivolts of potential. He points out that many patients with trigeminal neuralgia describe their pain in terms of "electrical" jolts and concludes that his patient's neuralgia may well have been triggered by the galvanic reaction between the amalgam filling and the gold crown. Cheshire, William P., Jr. The shocking tooth about trigeminal neuralgia. New England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 342, June 29, 2000, p. 2003 (correspondence)
Ortendahl TW, Hogstedt P & Holland RP. Mercury vapor release from dental amalgam in vitro caused by magnetic fields generated by CRT's and electrical cutting procedures. Swed Dent J 1991 p 31 Abstract 22
ABSTRACT: "People working in front of a cathode-ray tube screen (CRT) and who report they are negatively affected, sometimes complain about symptoms often related to "Oral galvanism". Another group of workers, occupationally exposed to magnetic fields, are divers, welding and cutting electrically under water. It has been repoerted (Ortendahl et.
al. J. Undersea Biomed Res 1988;15:443-456) that the magnetic field flux density intraoraly at a certain current and with a specific distance relation between the oral cavity and the electric cord was 1.12 mT with a specific frequency spectra. Exposure of amalgam specimens to a magnetic field with 1.15 mT (50 Hz) caused and chemical
changes on the surfaces of the dental amalgams. Therefore, the aim of the study was to analyze if work in front of a CRT-screen would have any influence on the mercury vapor release from dental amalgam. The aim was also to analyze if a magnetic field with a complex frequency spectra and a flux density of 1.15 mT would influence the mercury vapor release. Materials and Methods: 5 CRT-screens were selected as sources for the magnetic field exposure. The criterias for the selection of screens were: 1 occurring frequently in swedish officies,
2. compensated and uncompensated screens with respect to the magnetic fields. From three types of dental amalgams, representative to swedish
dentistry, cylindrical amalgam specimens were prepared and were immersed in artificial saliva in an electrolytic cell. The electrolytic cells were located exactly in front of the CRT-screens with a distance amalgam - CRT-screen of 50 cm during 6 hours. On a specific electrolytic cell, coils were adapted and supplied with a current to the electrical cutting situation. The created field had a complex frequency spectra in order to create a more realistic simulation of the in vivo situation than the earlier used 50 Hz field.
The mercury vapor release (Hg0) was registered continously and were determined by a gold-foil mercury vapor analyzer (Jerome 411). As control served amalgam specimens, not exposed to a magnetic field but immersed in the artificial saliva and a reference group which were not exposed to either the magnetic fields or artificial saliva.
Results and Conclusion: 2 of the CRT-screens significantly increased the mercury vapor release from all three types of amalgam. One of these two screens were compensated and one were uncompensated. The magnetic fields which were supposed to simulate the electrical cutting situation did not cause any increased mercury vapor release. The study was supported by The Swedish Work Environmental fund."
Newsgroups: alt.health.dental-amalgam, sci.physics.electromag, sci.med.dentistry From: Jim Barron <jdbar...@cphl.mindspring.com> - Find messages by this author Date: 1997/09/22 Subject: Re: Amalgam in EM field Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original
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Harry H Conover wrote:
> p...@tcp.co.uk wrote: > : [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > magnetic fields from CRT deflection yokes as the like would be...ah... > more or less insignificant? Actually it doesn't seem strange at all: Since no one has apparently scientificly studied this effect, your idea that the effect should be linearly related to the strength of the EMF field is ONLY a **conjecture**. Many biological effects are NOT linear and, without scientific experiments or good theoretical basis for believeing that the effect IS linear (or at least steadily increasing) the "jury is still out". I *DO* know that I DO have currents in my teeth (measured at up to 400 mV) and that they are very strongly affected by magnetic fields (on of the reasons I have been so absent from this group is that I have been unable to sit in front of my CRT monitor for more than a very short period without severe problems from the currents in my teeth (which problems markedly reduced each time a quadrant of fillings was removed - only one left to go!)
- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -
> : It has been repoerted (Ortendahl et. > : al. J. Undersea Biomed Res 1988;15:443-456) that the magnetic field [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > why monitor design focuses on protecting the monitor functioning from > the effects of the environment, and not the converse. This is grossly oversimplistic. EMFs have many important properties OTHER than just strength (frequency, variable or constant, etc.) any of which could possibly be just as, or even more, important than mere strength.
> This would, of course, not be the case if you were running your computer > from a DC battery pack on an isolated mountain peak in the Andes, in which > case the computer monitor just might be the prime contributor to the EM > environment. Interestingly enough I can work at my PORTABLE computer (which has a liquid crystal display, hence no CRT tube (and no variable EMF)) for many hours a day for days on end with NO problems whatsoever. But a few hours in front of a CRT tube would be devestating (FORGET about sleeping!)
Short of this somewhat idealistic situation, ED radiation
> from the computer monitor is totally lost in the backgound noise (at > least from galvanic action considerations.) If this is SO (and my experience indicates that you are just GUESSING (incorrectly!) on this one) perhaps you could explain why the hairs on the back of my hand stick straigt out when they get near my monitor? And they DON'T in the same area when the monitor is off?
> Sorry, I just don't buy it! You have, or course, a right to your OPINION. But an opinion with NOTHING to back it up means little.
If you believe your computer monitor is the
> source of your health problems, the problem is a personal, internal one, > and not something to be blamed on technology. Perhaps "I think" might be more appropriate than "is"?
- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -
> Repreating my previous advice: If you suffer from problems like this, > consider a program that exposes you to actual pain or psychological [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > have posted it. It's simply that some people do need a 'wakeup > call.' I would suggest that the reason you receive what you perceive as "hate mail" is that 1) you seem to express an (apparently) unjustified certainty on things about which you give no sound basis for your *opinion* AND 2) you, in effect, "blame the victim" for his/her problem. (Easy to do when it's not YOUR problem!) Such dogmatic attributions of problems to "psychogenic" origins (all too common in medicine and almost invariably WRONG (vitrually every medical problem was attributed to "psycogenic" origins at some point (before it was eventually understood)). Some amount of reactive animosity is, IMHO understandable, although not the most effective or desireable reaction.
IME (in my experience), angry replies are usually a result of the WAY and MANNER in which ideas were expressed (inappropriate certainty, disparaging other's valid observations, etc.) rather than to the ideas themselves.
Also consider that, in the case of amalgam, those who, for MANY good reasons, feel that they have been systematically poisioned by a profession that has studiously avoided adequately investigating the amalgam safety issue for well over a century, have a good deal of understandable resentment, distrust and anger. Sometimes we forget that a lot of dentists have been "victimized" with the same hogwash that has been fed to patients. (But we DO feel that they were a lot more gullible than is really justifiable.)
jdbar...@mindspring.com
(another poster wrote)
Watch the tooth voltage readings. Most millivolt meters will measure voltages when the probes are put in the mouth. Saliva is a good electrolyte and when combined with fillings and meter probes forms a very effective battery.
Newsgroups: alt.health.dental-amalgam, sci.physics.electromag, sci.med.dentistry From: micromercur...@geocities.com - Find messages by this author Date: 1997/09/22 Subject: Re: Amalgam in EM field Reply to Author | Forward | Print | View Thread | Show original | Report Abuse
Harry H Conover wrote:
> Harry C. > p.s., I received several 'hate mail' articles after my past post. I > wonder how many more this one will attract? Realize, if I > considered what I am posting to be bad advice, I truly wouldn't > have posted it. It's simply that some people do need a 'wakeup > call.' Please do a search there is more on CRT its a matter of the frequency given off, there was only one computer that did not produce this effect and it was an IBM model.
Below the symptoms are no different its just a matter of time, if only we could all wake up.
Regards micromercurial http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/2888/
Scientist Karen Wetterhan 1949 - 1997
Mercury Changed Scientist's Life
It was just a drop of liquid, just a tiny glistening drop. It glided over her glove like a jewel.
Scientist Karen Wetterhan knew the risks: The bad stuff kills if you get too close.
She took all the precautions working with mercury in her Dartmouth College lab -- wearing protective gloves and eye goggles, working under a ventilated hood that sucks up chemical fumes.
So on that sunny day in August, when she accidentally spilled a drop, she didn't think anything of it. She washed her hands, cleaned her instruments and went home.
It was just a drop of liquid, just a tiny glistening drop.
At first, friends thought she had caught a stomach bug on her trip to Malaysia. It wasn't until she started bumping into doors that her husband, Leon Webb, began to worry. Karen, always so focused, always so sure of her next step, was suddenly falling down as if she were drunk.
In 15 years together, she had never been sick, never stopped working, never complained. Leon was stunned when she called for a ride home from work.
Over lunch a few days later, Karen confided to her best friend, Cathy Johnson, that she hadn't felt right for some time. Words seemed to be getting stuck in her throat. Her hands tingled. It felt like her whole body was moving in slow motion.
"Karen," Johnson said as she drove her back to the college, "we've got to get you to the hospital."
"After work," Karen promised, walking unsteadily into the Burke chemistry building for the last time.
That night, Leon drove her to the emergency room. It was Monday, Jan. 20, 1997, five months since she had spilled the drop in the lab.
Just a single drop of liquid. Yet somehow it had penetrated her skin.
By the weekend, Karen couldn't walk, her speech was slurred and her hands trembled. Leon paced the house. "Virus" seemed an awfully vague diagnosis for symptoms that were getting worse every day.
"It's mercury poisoning," Dr. David Nierenberg said. "We have to start treatment immediately."
Leon hung up with relief. At last, they understood the problem. Now maybe they could fix it.
It seemed impossible to believe that anything could be wrong with Karen Wetterhahn, one of those quietly impressive individuals whose lives seemed charmed from the start.
Serious and hardworking, she excelled at everything she turned to -- science or sailing or skiing. She grew up near Lake Champlain in upstate New York in a family so close that when she and her only sister became mothers, they named their daughters after each other: Charlotte and Karen.
Karen was always the brilliant one of the family, the one who would do great things. And she did, becoming the first woman chemistry professor at Dartmouth, running a world-renowned laboratory on chromium research, devoting herself to her work.
It was important work, the kind that could lead to cures for cancer and AIDS. Karen thrived on it. She loved nothing more than experimenting with a chemical, figuring out its bad side and how it breaks down living things.
In the often cutthroat world of scientific research and ideas, where work is judged in academic journals and egos are as enormous as intellects, Karen stood out. Other professors would send their students to her office just to meet her. Talk to Karen, they would say.
See how you can balance the demands of work and life and still be on top of your field.
The only place on Earth more precious than her lab was the dark cedar house that Leon, a mason, had built with his own hands. Home was Karen's haven, her retreat from the rarefied halls of Ivy League academia.
Here, in the pretty village of Lyme, at the top of a hill at the end of a dirt road, she would listen to rock music -- heavy metal was her favorite -- and tend her garden.
Here, science came second to 12-year-old Charlotte's baby rabbits, 14-year-old Ashley's mountain bikes, Todd the goat and Dillon the pony.
At home, she would throw great neighborhood parties by the pool, or gather up the family and drag them off to the golf course, or the tennis court, or Ashley's hockey game.
"We never knew she was a world-famous scientist," one neighbor said afterward. "She was just Char and Ashley's mom."
Mercury poisoning.
Karen beamed when she heard the news. Finally, something she understood. Something she could explain. They would feed her fat white nasty-tasting pills that would flush the poison out of her system.
Science would cure her, she told her husband, giddy with excitement as she sat in bed surrounded by her children and her notes.
"Karen was happy, so I was happy," Leon says now. "We just didn't know."
How could they have known? Back in January, virtually nothing was known about the extraordinary dangers of dimethylmercury, the rare man-made compound Karen had spilled. Scientists didn't know it could seep through a latex glove like a drop of water through a Kleenex. Doctors didn't know it could break down the body over the course of a few months, slowly, insidiously, irreversibly.
Above all, no one knew how to stop its deadly progress, as it cut off her hearing, her speech, her vision, reducing her body to a withered shell.
Today, because of Karen, the world knows so much more.
Quicksilver, as mercury is called, has long played a sinister game of seduction with science. One of the world's oldest metals, it comes in various forms -- some that heal, some that kill. Dimethlymercury, a colorless liquid that looks like water but is three times heavier, is far more toxic than other forms -- the kind used in thermometers and batteries and medicine. It's made purely for research and is rarely used.
Aug. 14, 1996. Just one shimmering drop. Now, six months later, Karen's body was riddled with it.
Karen was the one who remembered the spill. It nagged away at her in the hospital as she underwent CT scans and spinal taps and tests for everything except chemical poisoning.
But I work with mercury, she said. Shouldn't I be tested for the bad stuff?
The results plagued the doctors even more: Why had it taken so long for the symptoms to show? What kind of brain damage had already occurred? Had anyone else been exposed? Was she contagious?
And the question that still stings Leon's heart, the one that still seems almost obscene: "Does your wife have any enemies?"
"Enemies!" he whispers incredulously through tears. "Karen didn't have enemies. Everyone loved her."
She was easy to love, this tall athletic woman with the deep infectious laugh. Comfortable to talk to. Always there for students, colleagues and friends.
And for Leon.
In some ways, they seemed an unlikely match: Leon, 40, the son of a Vermont dairy farmer who decided early on that masonry was more profitable than milking cows, and Karen, 48, the daughter of a chemist, the brilliant teacher and scholar. They had an easy comfort with each other. She would watch him coach Charlotte's basketball team; he would accompany her on lecture trips to Italy, Norway and Hawaii.
"She was always interested in what I was doing," he says often, as if he somehow has to explain.
He always knew her work was important but, since the accident, he has made an effort to really understand it. Today, he can recite her resume almost by heart: the awards she won as a doctoral student at Columbia, where her research on platinum was considered the most exciting of its kind, the Women in Science mentoring program she started at Dartmouth, the $7 million federal grant she won to study toxic metals.
She didn't talk much about work at home, except the grant, the largest in the college history. "She was so proud of that," he says.
The mercury research she was doing with Harvard and MIT was just something on the side, Leon explains. Chromium was Karen's real area of expertise.
He shakes his head at the irony. Who could have imagined that the builder would eventually learn more than the scientist about the perils of dimethlymercury?
Others were learning, too. At Dartmouth Medical Center, Dr. David Nierenberg scoured the medical literature for clues about how to treat his colleague and friend. A mile away in his campus office, two doors down from Karen's, John Winn, head of Dartmouth's chemistry department, grabbed every paper on mercury he could find.
The more her colleagues read, the more their hearts sank.
There was only one documented case of dimethlymercury poisoning this century, a Czech chemist in 1972 who had suffered the same symptoms as Karen and died. A handful of people had been exposed directly to pure methlymercury, another toxic mercury compound, and died. More well-known mercury poisoning epidemics, like those in Iraq in the 1970s and Japan in the 1950s, involved exposure to foods contaminated by methylmercury.
There was no telling if dimethlymercury would act the same way.
Karen herself was beginning to understand. There was a desperate look on her face as she pointed to the clock when it was time to take her pills. Still, she kept up a brave face, kept saying not to worry.
"Even if I don't fully recover, maybe I'll get well enough to ride again," she whispered to her horse-riding friend and fellow scientist, Jacqueline Sinclair.
And when the hospital psychologist asked if she was depressed, she smiled. Wouldn't you be? she replied.
That was Jan. 31, three days after the diagnosis. A week later, Karen was transferred to Massachusetts General Hospital for a massive blood transfusion that nearly killed her.
Leon was pacing at home again, torn between honoring his wife's wish not to alert her parents and the feeling that she was sinking faster than she knew.
The phone rang. The nurse said Karen wanted to talk to her son.
From her hospital bed, the mother struggled. She drooled and moaned and the words just wouldn't come. Ashley waited uncomfortably. He didn't like the sounds. He didn't like the silence.
"Hi, Mom," he coaxed, loud so she might hear. It was useless. The nurse ended the torture and took the phone.
"She just wanted to say goodnight," Ashley says, bowing his head to hide the tears when he remembers the last time he talked to his Mom. "She couldn't even say goodnight."
Others remember final moments, too, although everything was happening so fast they didn't seem like goodbyes at the time. But friends could see the toll on the scientist's mind and body. They could see her faith fading, even as she continued to talk about being back on her feet for her new spring course. The day the ambulance came to take her to Massachusetts, she cried uncontrollably.
"I think that's when she knew," says Nadia Gorman, remembering how she tried to comfort her friend and colleague as she wondered if she would ever talk to her again. "There was a feeling of total tragedy in the air."
In the ambulance, Karen told Cathy Johnson for the first time in their 15-year friendship that she loved her. In the hospital, she struggled to point to the letters "N" and "H" on her alphabet board. Leon nodded. He promised that, whatever the outcome, he would take her home, to New Hampshire.
"As a nonscientist, I couldn't comprehend it all," says Provost Jim Wright, Karen's friend and former boss. "And the scientist I had been accustomed to turn to for answers was not available to help me."
Doctors didn't have answers either. They turned to Thomas Clarkson at the University of Rochester in New York, who had set up clinics in Iraq during the epidemic there in the 1970s, when hundreds of people died after eating mercury-poisoned bread.
His lab stopped everything to help, testing Karen's hair and blood samples, ordering a batch of dimethlymercury to begin its own tests.
"I felt such a sense of helplessness," Clarkson says. "Here was one of the world's most distinguished scientists, and I was looking at this woman dying realizing there is nothing the scientific or medical communities can do."
Karen's lab was shut down. Her family, students and co-workers were tested. Her hospital room was checked for airborne mercury from her breath. Federal environmental and health agencies were alerted, as was the state health department. Her car and clothes and house were sniffed with mercury-detectors.
E-mails flew around campus, and around the country. Students emptied libraries of books on mercury, staying up all night to translate obscure research papers, seizing on any sliver of information they could find.
"There would be this elation when we found a study about someone that had been cured," Gorman says, "then crying when we read that the end point for those who went into a coma was death."
Scientists and doctors around the world offered their services.
"It was an extraordinary outpouring," Nierenberg says.
But Karen was slipping too fast to appreciate it. Ten days after the diagnosis, on Feb. 7, she fell into a coma in Massachusetts. Leon told the doctors he was taking her home.
Back at Dartmouth Hitchcock, her family kept vigil by her bedside, her parents and sister talking to her as her body thrashed and moaned. Leon plastered the walls with cards and photographs: Karen on the golf course, at Disney World with the kids, lunch with her friends Cathy and Nadia, shaking hands with President Clinton at graduation ceremonies in 1996.
Just a tiny drop of poison. And she was fighting it with all her might.
It became too difficult for the children to visit. Even friends stayed home, waiting for the phone call that would tell them it was over.
Her husband stroked her face. Her sister and her best friend washed her hair. Doctors tried treatments never attempted on humans before.
But they couldn't save her from the poison. On June 8, it took her life.
"She didn't suffer," Ashley told his eighth-grade class the next day. "She just stopped breathing."
It was 10 months since she had spilled the drop in the lab, four months after she had slipped into a coma.
Karen Wetterhahn's death was as extraordinary as her life and, in many ways, just as important. Perhaps she had an idea that it would be.
While she could still speak, she urged doctors and scientists to learn everything they could from her accident and to warn the world about the dangers.
The world has already learned so much. It learned that the gloves that were supposed to protect her actually acted as a conductor to the poison. It learned that dimethlymercury, so easy to order in research catalogs, is more deadly than anyone had imagined. Saddest of all, it learned that by the time the symptoms showed, it was too late.
There is much more to learn, as scientists and doctors study her case. There will be studies and papers, symposiums and tributes. There may even be new federal regulations and mandatory blood tests for scientists who work with heavy metals. There is talk of banning dimethlymercury for good. And talk of turning her hospital room into a nurses' lounge and naming it for Karen.
Her funeral took place on a hot summer day to the strains of a flute and a choir singing "Be Not Afraid."
In the packed college chapel, the sense of betrayal was as powerful as the sense of loss. Colleagues wept as they eulogized a modern-day Madame Curie who had sacrificed her life to her cause.
What good was pushing back the boundaries of human knowledge, they cried, if they had to bury one of their own?
Alone and bewildered, Leon sat in the front pew, looking out of place in his dark funeral suit, tears streaming down his face.
It all seemed like a dream, he says later. No, he corrects himself -- a nightmare.
He still wakes in the middle of the night and wonders if it's true, or if Karen is just off on another trip. He still half expects her to come striding through the door with her laptop and her notes and her big, big smile to rustle up some tacos for dinner.
He picks up the picture of Karen working in her lab, a study of intensity in her goggles and gloves, staring at her test tubes and vials.
"She loved her work," he says. "It made her happy."
She couldn't have known the risks. She couldn't have known how bad the bad stuff really was. Truth is, no one knew.
Just a tiny drop of liquid. Sweet-smelling. Dense. Deadly.
[ASSOCIATED PRESS, LYME, N.H., September 13, 1997
george1234 - 14 Sep 2005 15:57 GMT >I see, another one of those chicken posters who is afraid of having his >posts to be archived. Do you believe name calling over such a trivial choisce of usenet options supports your position?
If you note there is a direct counter to your observation in an adjacent response. How do you account for the difference in observations? In one case we have acid tomatoes conspiring with amalgam and gold to produce shocks, and in the other we don't..
Reflection on this counter example, may give you a clue as to why your position is treated as a less than serious, it is countered by observation.
LadyLollipop - 14 Sep 2005 17:08 GMT >>I see, another one of those chicken posters who is afraid of having his >>posts to be archived. > > Do you believe name calling over such a trivial choisce of usenet > options supports your position? I believe in calling a spade a spade.
> If you note there is a direct counter to your observation in an > adjacent response. How do you account for the difference in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > position is treated as a less than serious, it is countered by > observation. #1. You would do well to note, it was NOT *my* position.
#2 The problem with this newsgroups and others, they wish to personally trash the poster.
#3 That is VERY childish.
#4. Your post was RUDE, uncalled for, and disrespectful
The difference for the direct counter was
the sake of an *argument*
In FACT the problem is MOST serious.
The FACT is, most dentists, and those brain washed by *organized medicine and dentistry*, here laugh at SERIOUS problems.
The FACT is Trigeminal neuralgia, is VERY VERY painful, and ANY one who laughs and makes jokes about it is D E S P I C A B L E!!!!!!!
george1234 - 14 Sep 2005 17:54 GMT >> Do you believe name calling over such a trivial choisce of usenet >> options supports your position?
>I believe in calling a spade a spade. >#4. Your post was RUDE, uncalled for, and disrespectful Reflect on the juxtoposition of these two statements, Ace;)
Back on topic, you have not adressed the problem of contradictiory evidence. Do you believe as Clinton does that amalgam is not the source of the problem, and that there are other elements to the cited case?
LadyLollipop - 14 Sep 2005 18:49 GMT >>> Do you believe name calling over such a trivial choisce of usenet >>> options supports your position? > >>I believe in calling a spade a spade. >>#4. Your post was RUDE, uncalled for, and disrespectful #1 It is most impolite to snip in the middle of a post.
> Reflect on the juxtoposition of these two statements, Ace;) What is a juxtopostion?
> Back on topic, you have not adressed the problem of contradictiory > evidence. Wrong. I did address it, you very impolitely, snipped it.
Here it is again: *The difference for the direct counter was
the sake of an *argument*
== I am not interested in any *argument*
Do you believe as Clinton does that amalgam is not the
> source of the problem, and that there are other elements to the cited > case? I agree with Clinton.
However what you twisted above is NOT what Clinton said.
You are a VERY DISHONEST PERSON!!!
Here is what Clinton said:
You moron. Every configuration of amalgam placement is different. the chemical concentration/condensation of the amalgam and or crown could be different. The placement, paths of saliva conduction, saliva ph, and acidic breakown from bacteria as well as mineral/acid interactions from local tooth loss, or even immune system interaction and or crevice corrosion (which is real and can create strong acids simple from scavanging mechanisms in sealed or statica areas near the amalgam) couild all create various different states of chemical breakdown and galvanic interaction. gold will even interact with amalgam if they are separated by cement. Once corrision sets in high copper amalgams it is also exponential with depth and certainly would result in a wide variety of states of galvanic interaction. Only in your dipsidoddle dumbass world does you "counter example prove anything. In fact even the manufactuing sheets warn agains placing gold near amalgams. It should give anyone chills that someone like you is handling and placing a Hg material in their children and makes monkies out of people like my who ever put any trust in their dentist or thought they would have enough remedial intellegience to appreciate the basic dangers of the toxic material they were handling.
> On the face of it, that would eliminate the galvanic reaction between > gold and amalgam. On the face of it proves your a simpleton. Simpletons shouldn't handle or regulate Hg containing products
dr shad j lewis (via google) - 15 Sep 2005 01:51 GMT This is funny. Amalgam filling and gold crown.
Replace amalgam with composite - symptoms stop.
Replace amalgam with porcelain crown, symptoms stop.
Replace gold crown with porcelain, and LEAVE AMALGAM - symptoms stop.
Prove it wrong. Lady Lollipop.
How many licks does it take to get to the center of your tootsie?
carabelli - 15 Sep 2005 02:24 GMT > This is funny. Amalgam filling and gold crown. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > How many licks does it take to get to the center of your tootsie? Can't post a lemniscate in this format
carabelli
Clinton - 15 Sep 2005 02:37 GMT > This is funny. Amalgam filling and gold crown. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Prove it wrong. Lady Lollipop. I don't know what in the heck you and george are blabbering about. For one thing replacing the gold could STOP the galvanic action but by that time the amalgam could have corroded from the galvanic action and releasing much more Hg since corrosion is exponential with depth. Why would you keep such a filling in the patients mouth even if the electrical jolts ceased, unless you had a completely false conception of the stablility of amalgam.
Ask yourself this simple question. If amalgam and gold/ or another amalgam were placed in such a way to dissipate electrical jolts which would have a cetain amount of energy, where is that energy coming from. In other words if you can take two dissimilar materials and place them together to supply a 'biological" circuit with energy, why should the two materials be structurally unaffected. That would be energy for nothing. The STRUCTURE of the materials is always affected unless you belive in free energy.
Second any two dissimilar materials or amalgam could cause such a problem. And obviously amalgam by itself can breakdown, chemically without generating electricity in a galvanci type of circuit, or even withot galvanism being involved. Crevice corrsion is one mechanism.
that was just an extreme example exacerbated when the patient eats acid which probably also affect the galvanic reaction/corrosion rate, and electrical properties of the gold/amalgam- to get the point across that amalgam is not an inherently stable material. Kinda of like saying, look, electricity must be real because this tree was just vaporized with a lighting bolt. Pointing out that in many cases lightining doesn't srike, doesn't mean the concept of electricity is now invalid whenever there isn't a thunderstorm.
Clinton - 15 Sep 2005 02:42 GMT > This is funny. Amalgam filling and gold crown. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > How many licks does it take to get to the center of your tootsie? Dam, I just wrote a long response which got lost by Google. Cetainly the amalgam could have already corroded and be releasing higher levels of Hg, even if replacing the gold stops the electrical reaction. Why keep the amalgam in. Two dissimiarl materials will not maintain their orginal structure and still supply energy in a galvanic type circuit indefintely. That would be energy for nothing. The point is that to be involved in this type of reaction clearly shows the amalgam is not inherently stable.
LadyLollipop - 15 Sep 2005 03:40 GMT > This is funny. Amalgam filling and gold crown. Sad that you think it funny.
> Replace amalgam with composite - symptoms stop. > > Replace amalgam with porcelain crown, symptoms stop. > > Replace gold crown with porcelain, and LEAVE AMALGAM - symptoms stop. That wasn't mentioned, but the problem is, the VERY clear.
There is a galvanic reaction between an amalgam filling and an adjacent gold-alloy crown, dissimilar metals in contact with saliva can form a galvanic cell which can generate electrical currents with several hundred millivolts of potential.
He points out that many patients with trigeminal neuralgia describe their pain in terms of "electrical" jolts and concludes that his patient's neuralgia may well have been triggered by the galvanic reaction between the amalgam filling and the gol
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