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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / August 2005Reverse Dental Auction Site
Joel (*) on denta com.net talks of a Reverse Dental Auction Site Can somone point me to the siute TIA G (*) http://www.dentalcom.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1822 Good sleuthing! The site is completely functional, up and running, but I have been s busy with other stuff that I have not had time to devote to marketing etc. A poster gets three winning (lowest bids). There is no obligation o either side to fulfill the terms of the auction. Its soley a introduction service. If the patient is not happy they can rerun th auction and get three more winners! Its zero cost for both sides. Joel IMAGE FOLLOWS: . [image: http://tinypic.com/azj7ur.jpg] . -- Joel34 RE: Reverse auction Hey JoeL. That's great! Have there been any transactions -- Su A few but my marketing got interrupted. Any auction site needs high volume ... all at once! It won't work unless a good number of people from my local zipcodes can log on at once. I am trying to blend it in with the new dental facility. Joel  SignatureJoel344 Joel344 Wrote: > A few but my marketing got interrupted. Any auction site needs high > volume ... all at once! [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Joel Joel, I am not sure what you mean. How do you intend to blend them? Do you mean have a link to this on the website for the new dental facility --> or something like that? Thanks, Sue SignatureSue Well with the commodification of dentistry, one thing that is missing on the other side is the ability for the consumer to "compare" or to see what a given service might cost. Its very simple really, but our dental profession has resisted and PREVENTED patients from finding alternatives. As example, a patient with a raging toothache needs a tooth removed. He calls a dentist who offers to fit him in in a week. The patient has little opportunity for finding out that another dentist, just as good, is sitting there right next door twiddling his thumbs. So the patient must call dozens, maybe hundreds of dentists to find immediate relief. If he is lucky he will find a dentist. NON-EMERGENCY OPINION Let's take a four unit bridge, two abutments (anchor teeth), two pontics (replacement for missing teeth), no gum disease, relatively healthy teeth, porcelain-fused-to-metal construction, high-noble alloy (specified within), what's the fee? Well it can range from $1,500 to $6,000 depending on ..... well this is capitalism and people (dentists) are completely free to value their services at whatever they want to value them at. Hey! Its a free country. But patients do not have the fortitude to find out what it may be worth elsewhere. That's all fine and good, but its a shame for patients who reason, "Oh I do not have $10,000 or $15,000 to get this fixed so I will have all my teeth yanked and get dentures for $5,000. Now in fact these plastic replacements for teeth are not the right solution, especially when there are excellent dentists who might be happy to RESTORE and FIX for far less. So a non-binding, introduction resource might get more patients to the right dentist, depending on circumstances, resources, etc. Its a way for patients to find three guys who are thinking, "Yeah I do not mind doing a job like that for ....... lemmmeeeseee .... ummm, this is the low bid ....... and I can do better!" Now when the patient shows up, if the dentist finds that the treatment has been misrepresented, or if the dentist does not like the patient, the dentist can politely decline. No biggie here. The patient? Same deal. If the patient does not like the doctor, the office, anything at all, a polite, "I will call you, DO NOT CALL ME," will do! Joel SignatureJoel344 >The site is completely functional, up and running, but I have been so >busy with other stuff that I have not had time to devote to marketing, >etc. Please, where is the site? What is it's web address? --G Well the site has too few items being auctioned and I do not want peopl getting a false sense of what's going on. Its impossible to find b googling it too because I wrote the code in ASP, where server pages ar dynamically loaded from a database as it is requested (by doctor or b patient). Actually one must do that as an auction always need completely up-to-date information second-by-second. I am usin Microsoft Acess at the back end. I have included "bid protection" meaning that if a doctor bids the dea by $500 less than the current bid, the software lowers the bi decrementally as needed, say $50 at a pop while always maintaining th lowest bid! This way no one has to sit there and watch the auction. Yo place your best bid and check back later. The three lowest bidders ar e-mailed to the patient, who then contacts the doctor. The biggest challenge? When I wrote the code I was using one of m crappy monitors and I mistook a 4+l for a 4+1. Can you believe that? I took me a couple of weeks to find that tiny code-bustin' error Actually, I have replaced the monitor so right here it looks okay. If wrote the code using this monitor I would have spotted the error righ away. But the Reverse Auction site is completely functional, and as soon as get my marketing in place, I will publish the web site so people ca look over a reverse dental auction site in action. I struck out with Google already. I had bid for certain keyword meaning that people in my area who entered dentist into Google woul find my ad on the right side. RESULT: Too few click-throughs. Google i kind of clever because they can sell the adwords on a geographica basis, meaning that anyone within 20 miles of where I am located woul see the ad, others would not. A Dental Reverse auction needs to be locally developed commodity. You need to transact dentistry somewha close to home. If I were selling hot sauce by UPS well that's anothe business product! That you sell nationwide. If you would like screen shots I will post same. As example, I am featuring "Dental Implants" meaning my opening scree has photo images of four implant cases, rotating randomly. These woul be actual cases, submitted by patients. They can include photos x-rays, or just text, depending on the skills of the patient. Joe -- Joel34 >Well the site has too few items being auctioned and I do not want people >getting a false sense of what's going on OK thank you, I won't persist if you won't say where it is As to "fully functional", well,,, this must be a new menaing of "fully functional", I'm a reminded of a part of "so long and thanks for all the fish', Arthur and his companion are about to be ejected into the void of interstellar space. His companion says "Don't worry we're perfect;ly safe" to which Arthur replies" This must be a new meaning of safe" Good luck on your work... please post when it is both functional, and I can find it --G "Fully functional" means there are no bugs as of right now. Usually whe something is in "beta" it is not published to prevent naysayers fro complaining too much about bugs or bad design. This is out of beta an has been published for more than a year. By explaining "fully functional" I am alluding to the fact that withou marketing and a robust readership, that people may start badmouthing th site without good cause. Conversely, if you see an auction site where twenty, fifty or severa thousand auctions are proceeding in real time, then you can evaluat whether it will be useful for the profession as a new paradigm. I a more concerned that something will get into the wrong hands and public campaign will sink the new venture. WHAT? Well there are factions that would want this to succeeed and othe factions that would want it to fail. I do not mean you of course, bu anything I type here gets widely distributed and could fall into th wrong hands. But thanks for the interest and thanks for the discussion. Joe -- Joel34 About Rod Kurthy, Hi Sue, I am in regular contact with Rod and I am encouraging his busines ventures. How this might be impaced by Reverse Dental Auction is this: AUCTION # 142 Rod Kurthy Deep Bleaching ... request by patient INITIAL BID .... $1,500 SECOND BID .... $1,200 THIRD BID .... $1,150 FOURTH BID ..... $950. FINAL BID Three of them! #1 ... $950 #2 .... $900 #3 .....$850 (In this case decrementing by $50, which is established by th patient). Who wins who loses? WINNERS, the patient and the doc with time on his hands, they are hug winners ..... or the doc who has the dental assistant who can handl this under HIS DIRECTION and help (as per etching) and does not min $850 for the 90 minutes worth of work! Ahemmmmmmm! See why some folks (dentists) will hate this? Joe -- Joel34 Good reasons for being cautious! I know how this syndication works! Just look at the image below. MedK has already syndicated it and its searchable. Prior to this what w said at DentalCom.net was only published here! This is the POWER but also the LIABILITY of disseminating information. So for now I gots to be paranoid! Joel . [image: http://tinypic.com/b491z5.jpg] . http://tinypic.com/b491z5.jp -- Joel34 Yes joel. Dentists who currently enjoy large profit margins and not much competition might not want anyone else stepping in at a lower bid.... HOWEVER I can see the positives for RK. It could be an additional marketing tool and exposure for selling for his "products." Perhaps he is not so concerned about the profit margins that dentists make. Maybe he just lieks seeing his stuff get widely distributed. Afterall, dentist will still make a profit. I can also see the real positives for those dentists starting out, who really need more "work" (and more patients). I think this could be useful for pts who lack insurance and "feel" forced to become "bargain shoppers." People who have an established dentist will likely continue on as they have done traditionally. As for the very poor... they may continue to miss out entirely.. because many lack access or may lack knowledge re: tools like computers (elderly poor, minority poor). If you could make this accessible to agencies that service the poor, family services agencies, agencies that house battered women, etc. ... you know? Sue Joel344 Wrote: > About Rod Kurthy, > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Joel SignatureSue Excellent suggestions Sue. Thanks. I originally thought about denta insurance people or even possibly the AmeriPlan discount dental pla people, but I cannot in good conscience support them! After all, th Reverse Auction site will be "more disclosure, less nonsense" whil many of the commercial sites are the reverse! Joe -- Joel34 Joel344 Wrote: > Excellent suggestions Sue. Thanks. I originally thought about denta > insurance people or even possibly the AmeriPlan discount dental pla [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > JoelWell Joel. Just keep working it! You have out too much effort ino this to let it fall by the wayside. The fact that George is asking an anxious to access it shows that there is interest and potential demand. Good luck! Su -- Su >FINAL BID Three of them! > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >(In this case decrementing by $50, which is established by the >patient). So dentistry has fallen to the sales tactics of priceline dot com ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com I dunno, has it? I always recommend that patients establish good one-on-one professiona relationships with dentists ... but I am in the minority here. I se 1-800-DENTIST, Find-A-Dentist, all kinds of local ads, singing jingle on the radio, TV infomercials, the works. So if you are biting on advertising, you may want to bite into findin out if the fee is in line too. Joe -- Joel34 >So dentistry has fallen to the sales tactics of priceline dot com ? Ok, if the dentist is certified by the state board (and holds a degree from a reputable university) that should be reasonable protection for the patient, This risk is quite different from the risks of the consumer on priceline The other unspoken element is the patient doctor bond. I went to the same fellow for 25 years , at times flying back from europe for treatment when I worked overseas. I'd continue doing it if he still practiced, but he does not. Absent personnal recommendation, price is one way to choose a dentist The real thing I'm interested in is diagnosis and recommended course of treatment. That's what i hoped to find Re: Reverse Auction.I am with George on patient/doctor bond. Once I find a good dentist, I prefer to stick with that dentist With that said however, there ar many people without dental insurance tha may jump on this. If it takes off, some dentists may becom burdened with additional frustrations. Imagine a hard working dentist spending time making diagnoses, only to have his/her pts running off to the internet to find the best deal and then going elsewhere .. Comments Joel -- Su Actually, the site addresses the "second-opinion issue" perhaps bette than addressing the money issue. Here's an example. We just had a fir alarm/burglar alarm installed at the new place. I called a bunch o guys and got three of them out to look the place over. From thei various proposals we pieced together what will be the BEST treatmen plan for fire/burglar installation. Now with regards dentistry, when I give a complex treatmen plan/treatment recommendation, I WANT the patient to get a secon opinion and as I explain it, " ......if only to check on what I jus told you." 95 out of 100 patients politely decline. Why? Its so difficult to eve find some doc who will take a quick look. The patient has the x-ray and it should be simple. But just try it sometime. Dentists discourag second opinions. Reverse Dental Auction will provide a format for it! Joe -- Joel34 Sue, if someone finds a better treatment idea, I want the patient to ge that treatment no matter if it be from me or if from someone else That's good dentistry! And YES, that happens every day of the week .. it should happen more! For example, I am thinking of the guy with the problematic firs premolar ...... root canal ...... crown lengthening .... post .. build-up ... then crown .... and here I am thinking .... "Gee I sur hope the root lasts for a while." A smarter dentist might have told the patient, "Better consider what crappy root is there. Why not yank it and place an implant?" Joe -- Joel34 Joel wrote Actually, the site addresses the "second-opinion issue" perhaps bette than addressing the money issue. Here's an example. We just had a fir alarm/burglar alarm installed at the new place. I called a bunch o guys and got three of them out to look the place over. From thei various proposals we pieced together what will be the BEST treatmen plan for fire/burglar installation REPLY. I think this is great Joel. If I am not mistaken, seems thi what George was asking about. How/when can we view the site? Thanks Su -- Su George would have liked our concept at the Curtis Center. A panel of three experienced dentists were to have evaluated and recommended a treatment plan. After that, various specialists who were time-share one day and two day partners were to have performed the treatment with coordination by the dentist/panel/coordinators ..... I got to grab those images again .... that would have been a fabulous office! Its now a Realtor (circle thinggie)'s office! Joe -- Joel34 Here is the Curtis Center Project (Note: this plan is dead). It was about second-opinion and getting suburban specialists to devote one day or half day a week with us. Someone else got the lease ahead of us. Joel . [image: http://tinypic.com/b4gmsn.jpg] . http://tinypic.com/b4gmsn.jp -- Joel34 RE: Curtis Facilit Joel, The Curtis Faciltiy plan is dead.. but on this threa you mention another dental facility. Can you explain? Thanks -- Su Do you mean this? These are some of the inside pages of a print magazine that is bein distributed around town. Joel . 2 [image: http://tinypic.com/b4hlcn.jpg] 3 [image: http://tinypic.com/b4hlk2.jpg] 4 [image: http://tinypic.com/b4hls3.jpg -- Joel34 Some detail ...... . [image: http://tinypic.com/b4hrir.jpg] . -- Joel34 Yeah I forgot ... I switched out the fonts and installed the krinkled ones with the deeper drop shadow to give it more 3-D effect .... YES I like to work with graphics programs! Joel [image: http://tinypic.com/b4ivsm.jpg] . -- Joel34 >REPLY. I think this is great Joel. If I am not mistaken, seems this >what George was asking about. How/when can we view the site? Thanks, Yes... my own interests we're particualr: that of the second opinion, a sub set of what joel is doing. I honestly dont see why anyone would have a problem getting a second opinion. If someone recommended surgeryany pruident person would inquire about alternatives. A second opinion is a formal way to persue such an inquiry Re: Reverse auction George. I find this reverse auction venture enlightening! First off I love to see other's innovative efforts coming to fruition. 2nd: Joe is the type of dentist who really puts patients first. He is concerne about their ability to get the proper care and the ability to pay fo needed treatments. That concern is what prompts his efforts. Hopefully many dentists will embrace this new idea, rather than to tak a cynical attitude. Best regards, Su -- Su Joel #1- Great innovative idea #2- You have put a lot of work into this. #3- This can be beneficial to both patients and dentist I am really impressed and I hope this goes forward. Although I am no a computer programmer I write a lot of code for my job as well... fo applications that we use in collecting and crunching data (i.e. SAS matlab, Visual C++, Visual excel). I do not know what you are doin with ASP etc. .. but I CAN appreciate the frustrations that occur whe writing code! One tiny error can take hours to find and to resolve... uggh... can be so tedious to debug Perhaps the next step may be marketing your new idea. Maybe your bu RK can help with that :-) (Not meant entirely tongue and cheek.. but also tend to be a bit of a dreamer Su -- Su >Good sleuthing! > >The site is completely functional, up and running, but I have been so >busy with other stuff that I have not had time to devote to marketing, >etc. Is it reversal-dental auction or reverse dental-auction? I prefer the former... sounds far more interesting.. LOL Tom Its all three. 1. Reverse Dental Auction. 2. The Reversal Dental Auction means you bid your money and if you win your dentist sits in the chair and you the patient drill his teeth. 3. There is also Reversible Dental Auction, whenre you pays your mone and the doctor/magician waves his wand and suddenly your teeth wer back the way they were. Joe -- Joel34 |
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