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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / August 2005Hilary Duff's New Teeth
Well, what does everyone think? http://flapsblog.com/?p=797 Cosmetic dentistry gone mad? Yep Flap http://flapsblog.com Cosmetic dentistry went mad a long time ago. And still no end to the rotordontics assault of the rosenthal brigade. George So what do you guys do? Do you speak the truth and appear as an ol fuddy-duddy or do you go with the flow ......? Joe -- Joel34 > So what do you guys do? Do you speak the truth and appear as an old > fuddy-duddy or do you go with the flow ......? > > Joel Me fuddy duddy. Steve  SignatureCut the nonsense to reply Obtaining porcelain veneers has become a status symbol.Anyone left wit only natural teeth must be a poor schmuck -- Su Hasn't happened to me yet, but I would refuse to touch teeth without a cosmetic problem in the first place. > Well, what does everyone think? That's socialized dentistry for you... ;-) Seriously? I'm kind of delighted, because it just MIGHT help to discourage cosmetic dentistry of the "for no reason whatsoever" variety. Sue, you're not the only one - my comment got deleted on Falp's blog as well... (for the record, it was "Fibonacci has a lot to answer for" - not all THAT offensive, I would've thought...) letsconnect Wrote: > Sue, you're not the only one - my comment got deleted on Falp's blog as > well... (for the record, it was "Fibonacci has a lot to answer for" - > not all THAT offensive, I would've thought...) Amber, Censorship is ok as long as Flap is the one in control. Otherwise censorship is not ok. I don't understand Flap's motives because he proclaims one thing and does another. I did not say anything out of line either. I merely disagreed with some of his opinions. I hold no ill will toward Flap and I am willing to listen if Flap can explain. I have asked him what's up, but rather than explaining, he chooses to "delete." I don't understand him. Sue SignatureSue Sue, Unfortunately, I have had to spend alot of time moderating your comments on my blog. A blog is not a bulletin board and many blogs do not have comments sections or trackback. Sometimes you write the darnedest stuff and some of it is a personal attack on someone or me. You are welcome to post, but all comments on the blog are moderated. If you or anyone cross the line, then the comment will not be posted. If anyone posts spam, they will be banned. Flap http://flapsblog.com I think they look too long, unless it's 'cuz she's wearing too much icky eye makeup with the new teeth. It seems everyone in Hollywood is into the self mutilation thing. ares Flap Wrote: > Sue > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > http://flapsblog.com ************************************************ Flap I am going to be perfectly honest with you. I hope you can take it. A least I know my words will not be deleted from here. I have made les than a handful of comments on your blog, so you have not spen considerable time moderating my comments. That is baloney You however continue to make significant personal attacks on severa others. First on DT, then Dcom and now on your blog I did not make a personal "attack" on you. If you think I did then wh not discuss this with me when I asked you what was wrong? Flap, I have been completely honest with you since I first met you o DT. You were a respectful person I thought. I have treated you just a I would treat my own brother. When you make personal attacks on other friends of mine, I will call you on it, just as I would call my own brother on something like that. The comments of mine that you deleted from your blog were said to yo as a friend and with complete honesty AND in good humor, no less. Yo took exception to them and deleted them. I am sorry you did that. I have never "spammed" your blog. Like I said, I have made less than handful of comments there Your actions and your continuous rants about DT and some of the peopl there have really tainted my perception of you. You chatise DT ( private business) for censorship and then you exercise the same option on your blogsite. If you want to have a blogsite where you can attack others but you wil not allow anyone to defend those whom you attack, fine. That is you business. The comments of mine that you deleted pertained to my disagreemen with your presumption that Dentalcom was closing. You called Justin Schaeffer a moron just as you have continually don so in the past. You said he did not know what he was doing with thi site. *In* *good humor*, I told you to cool it. I also mentioned that I thin Justin has done pretty well for a kid with this dentalboard. For som reason you did not like that so you deleted my words. Oh well. Now you are trying to paint me as some spammer or someone who run around making personal attacks on you. That is pure baloney an yo know it. Flap, I really did/do not know what to think You and Justin had a falling out over this site. It is not my faul that the two of you cannot get along You are the elder so I would have assumed that you could have been little more mature and try to work things out. Instead you chose t jerk Justin around, trying to force him to give up posting o Dentaltown when you knew that may negatively impact his business. In addition it was more important to you to post stupid picture denigrating Sameer Puri's business than be concerned about the impac that this may have on Justin's business You continue to denigrate DT and pepole you do not like. Fine. Yo continue to denigrate Justin and make cracks about his "kiss a.s" post on DT. Fine I just don't understand why you do that Flap. I don't want to be a par of that. What good does that do anyone? I REALLY don't understand wha pleasure or satisfaction that gives you. I think it is wrong t continually tear others down for no good reason. I don't want to tak part in that behavior. I would like to have a different perception of your motives but can't. I am sorry Flap. I am really at a loss as to what to think. I a disappointed and sad about all of it. Su -- Su > Sue, > Unfortunately, I have had to spend alot of time moderating your > comments on my blog. A blog is not a bulletin board and many blogs do > not have comments sections or trackback. > Sometimes you write the darnedest stuff and some of it is a personal > attack on someone or me. > You are welcome to post, but all comments on the blog are moderated. > If you or anyone cross the line, then the comment will not be posted. > If anyone posts spam, they will be banned. > Flap > http://flapsblog.com ************************************************* Flap, I am going to be perfectly honest with you. I hope you can take it. At least I know my words will not be deleted from here. I have made less than a handful of comments on your blog, so you have not spent considerable time moderating my comments. That is baloney. You however continue to make significant personal attacks on several others. First on DT, then Dcom and now on your blog. I did not make a personal "attack" on you. If you think I did then why not discuss this with me when I asked you what was wrong? Flap, I have been completely honest with you since I first met you on DT. You were a respectful person I thought. I have treated you just as I would treat my own brother. When you make personal attacks on other friends of mine, I will call you on it, just as I would call my own brother on something like that. The comments of mine that you deleted from your blog were said to you as a friend and with complete honesty AND in good humor, no less. You took exception to them and deleted them. I am sorry you did that. I have never "spammed" your blog. Like I said, I have made less than a handful of comments there. Your actions and your continuous rants about DT and some of the people there have really tainted my perception of you. You chatise DT (a private business) for censorship and then you exercise the same options on your blogsite. If you want to have a blogsite where you can attack others but you will not allow anyone to defend those whom you attack, fine. That is your business. The comments of mine that you deleted pertained to my disagreement with your presumption that Dentalcom was closing. You called Justin Schaeffer a moron just as you have continually done so in the past. You said he did not know what he was doing with this site. *In* *good humor*, I told you to cool it. I also mentioned that I think Justin has done pretty well for a kid with this dentalboard. For some reason you did not like that so you deleted my words. Oh well. Now you are trying to paint me as some spammer or someone who runs around making personal attacks on you. That is pure baloney an you know it. Flap, I really did/do not know what to think. You and Justin had a falling out over this site. It is not my fault that the two of you cannot get along. You are the elder so I would have assumed that you could have been a little more mature and try to work things out. Instead you chose to jerk Justin around, trying to force him to give up posting on Dentaltown when you knew that may negatively impact his business. In addition it was more important to you to post stupid pictures denigrating Sameer Puri's business than be concerned about the impact that this may have on Justin's business. You continue to denigrate DT and pepole you do not like. Fine. You continue to denigrate Justin and make cracks about his "kiss a.s" posts on DT. Fine. I just don't understand why you do that Flap. I don't want to be a part of that. What good does that do anyone? I REALLY don't understand what pleasure or satisfaction that gives you. I think it is wrong to continually tear others down for no good reason. I don't want to take part in that behavior. I would like to have a different perception of your motives but I can't. I am sorry Flap. I am really at a loss as to what to think. I am disappointed and sad about all of it. Sue -- Sue My Reply: Thank you Sue for making my point. Most of the things you post (whether it be on Dental Town, DentalCom or Flaps Blog) are either falsehoods, misconstrued, mischaracterized or edited and/or deleted by you later.....or you apologize later. I don't want to say you maliciously characterize or misunderstand things but it is hard not to believe. Perhaps it is because you are not a dentist. In any case, I would appreciate in the future that you deal with posts on SMD without the personal attacks and name calling. We can, then, all get along. Flap http://flapsblog.com Most of the things you post (whether it be on Dental Town, DentalCom o Flaps Blog) are either falsehoods, misconstrued, mischaracterized o edited and/or deleted by you later.....or you apologize later I don't want to say you maliciously characterize or misunderstan things but it is hard not to believe Perhaps it is because you are not a dentist In any case, I would appreciate in the future that you deal with post on SMD without the personal attacks and name calling We can, then, all get along Fla 'http://flapsblog.com' (http://flapsblog.com/ <!-- / messag -->******************************************************** Addressing Flaps' post. *Falsehoods*: If what I say is a considered a falsehood, I would expec someone to provide evidence that refutes my statement. It is only i that manner that healthy conversation can take place. *Edits:* -The majority of my edits are to correct typo -I also may add an afterthought to an original post rather tha creating a new post -If I sense that I have mischaracterised or misinterpreted a situation I may even delete my OWN post in order to resume order and resolution t conflic -If I sense that I have unduly offended someone with my post and thin that an apology is warranted, I apologiz If Flaps believes that my edits indicate malicious behavior or a attempt to misconstrue a "truth," he is mischaracterizing me and he i dead WRONG. I believe that editing and deleting one's owns posts fo the sake of coming to a resolution is mature, responsible and acceptable behavior within an online group setting. *Personal attacks and name calling:* I find this comment by Flap funny. Flap calls Justin Shaeffer a moron Rod Kurthy a bully. He makes harsh and misguided personal judgements statements re: Howard and Judith Farran, Sameer Puri and other Townie whom he does not know. Now Flap requests that I refrain from persona attacks and name calling. I will stop if you will Flap To Flap: There are only 2 times I have called anyone on the boards name in anger. Once on Dentaltown when one person was relentlessl after me and trying to discredit me and my motives for being there. called him an A-hole. The other time was when you and Justin Schaeffe broke up your Dentalcom partnership. You openly made derogator statements about Justin and called him a moron. You accused Justin o making "kiss a.s " posts on DT and continue to make derogatory post about Dnetalcom after your partnership broke up You expected Justin to keep the stupid, slanderous, altere representation of Sameer Puri's business up on Dentalcom. I thought you were acting like a complete Prick and I told you so. I a sorry I called you one, but in my opinion, your behavior certainl deserved that comment. Whatever Flap. That is the reality of the behavior you displayed o the boards. That is the reality of the behavior that I displayed. Wha is done is done. I am not interested in having to pick your side whenever you have personal grievance against someone else Flap. I prefer to maintain an express my own opinions. I have no grievances with DT or Justin. Fro now I will ignore what you say about them. It difficult not to chim in because I find much of what you say about DT and some of the peopl there, akin to tabloid news. I am simply not interested reading tha stuff anymore. You are not perfect and I am not perfect. If we can both realize that then perhaps we can get along. I prefer to move onto productive conversation now. Su -- Su And to Flap With all that said, I do apologize if you found my last post to be offensive or as a personal attack on you. It was not meant to be an attack on you. I genuinely wish to get along. When I met you in person (10 min at the Mpls airport), I enjoyed your humor and your personality. I know you are a good, decent fellow. I just do not wish to get caught up in battles between dentalboards. That kind of stuff makes me sick. If you guys feel a need to do so, that's fine. I will just ignore. I hope that we can just put aside our more recent online arguments, be friends again and just move on. I am willing to prepare a clean slate. Sincerely Su -- Su Your post: And to Flap; With all that said, I do apologize if you found my last post to be offensive or as a personal attack on you. It was not meant to be an attack on you. I genuinely wish to get along. When I met you in person (10 min at the Mpls airport), I enjoyed your humor and your personality. I know you are a good, decent fellow. I just do not wish to get caught up in battles between dentalboards. That kind of stuff makes me sick. If you guys feel a need to do so, that's fine. I will just ignore. I hope that we can just put aside our more recent online arguments, be friends again and just move on. I am willing to prepare a clean slate. Sincerely, Sue My Reply: Enough of the personal attacks and other stuff. Sue, Move on......already! Flap http://flapsblog.com >Enough of the personal attacks and other stuff. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >http://flapsblog.com dot org ? The Captain's Blog, stardate 082605.1 -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Ok. Done! :-) Su -- Su Who is Hillary Duff by the way? I suppose I should know, but I don't. Joe -- Joel34 Joel344 Wrote: > Who is Hillary Duff by the way? I suppose I should know, but I don't > > Joel [image http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/bloodylamer/bastardly-photos/0505/hilaryt eeth06140501.jpg -- billkat Joel344 Wrote: > Who is Hillary Duff by the way? I suppose I should know, but I don't > > Joel "At the age of twenty-two, American violinist Hilary Hahn has alread established herself as one of the most accomplished and compellin artists on the international concert circuit." *OOPs* ... I have the wrong Hillary I think Hillary* Duff *is a paid employee of Dr. Dorfman's -- Su > Joel344 Wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > established herself as one of the most accomplished and compelling > artists on the international concert circuit." She is accomplished. Compelling? What the heck does that mean? Steve > *OOPs* ... I have the wrong Hillary. > > I think Hillary* Duff *is a paid employee of Dr. Dorfman's. SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 Your Cooment: Sue wrote: > Joel344 Wrote: >>Who is Hillary Duff by the way? I suppose I should know, but I don't. >>Joel > "At the age of twenty-two, American violinist Hilary Hahn has already > established herself as one of the most accomplished and compelling > artists on the international concert circuit." She is accomplished. Compelling? What the heck does that mean? Steve > *OOPs* ... I have the wrong Hillary. > I think Hillary* Duff *is a paid employee of Dr. Dorfman's. -- Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 Flap's Reply: Here is her website: http://hilaryduff.com/html_2003/main_site/frameset_NORMAL.htm Flap http://flapsblog.com Why would a sixteen year old need cosmetic dentistry? %^*&$%^&* ****************************************** It's difficult to comprehend all that Hilary Duff has accomplished i the past few years. Prior to Metamorphosis, Hilary had already sold 2. million albums, spent six weeks in the Billboard Top 10 and earned tw platinum album awards. She has starred in one #1 television series, tw hit movies, and has already made two more major films (20th Centur Fox’s Cheaper By The Dozen with Steve Martin, and Warner Bros.' Cinderella Story) to be released later this year. Plus, not one but tw television specials will honor the big day she turns "Sweet Sixteen." Not bad for someone who really just wants her driver's license. ***************************************** BIOGRAPHY HILARY DUFF Life is sweet – and getting even sweeter – for the pop world' favorite girl-next-door. Sure, Hilary Duff starred in a monstrousl huge TV show but that's, like, so yesterday 'cause Hilary's exercisin her right to change her mind and act her age. No more trying to fit circle into a square. With her first real pop-rock album Metamorphosis, and the #1 single "So Yesterday," Hilary is finally fre to be who she wants to be. "Change is a very important and natural thing," says Hilary. "We calle the album Metamorphosis because it's about changes that everybod experiences. It's not just about me, but it is very personal. Th change might seem a little sudden because most people are used t seeing me as a character through Lizzie McGuire and movie roles that played. So this music is a good way to get everyone to know the rea me. Everyone evolves and changes." A triple-threat talent, Hilary has become a music, film and televisio phenomenon thanks to an unbroken string of hits that began with he starring role in the Disney Channel Original Series Lizzie McGuire, th record-breaking #1 show in its timeslot. Hilary made her singing debu on that hit sit-com, lending her fresh vocals and sunny style to " Can’t Wait" from the RIAA-certified platinum Lizzie McGuir Television Soundtrack. In her motion picture debut, Hilary co-starre with Frankie Muniz in this summer's action-adventure hit Agent Cod Banks. Next came singing and starring roles in The Lizzie McGuir Movie, in which Hilary played – prophetically enough – an America tourist mistaken for a huge singing star. Proving that life imitates art, Hilary’s singing career is explodin on Top 40 radio, MTV and Top 200 retail charts. Metamorphosis – he amazingly appealing debut solo album of 13 songs – shipped well i excess of gold with 800,000 copies on August 26, 2003 and charted #2 o the Billboard 200 its first week of release. Its debut single, "S Yesterday," became an instant #1 retail hit at Walmart.com, and storme the pop singles charts on July 29, hitting the #1 spot after quickl making top-request waves at national Top 40 radio and on MTV’ signature program "Total Request Live," where Hilary's "Why Not" musi video (from the RIAA-certified platinum The Lizzie McGuire Movi Soundtrack) had already been a Top 10 staple for months. MTV also hosted a prestigious premiere for the "So Yesterday" musi video on its July 21 presentations of Making The Video and TRL All-Sta Backyard BBQ and featured Hilary in MTV Diary. Duff recently was presenter at both the MTV Video Music Awards and the Nickelodeon Kid Choice Awards, where she accepted the trophy for "Favorite TV Show" o behalf of Lizzie McGuire. And although there’s not one molecule o space left for another top award her shelf, "So Yesterday" has becom the #1 most-streamed video on AOL. "I’ve always sung, ever since I could talk," says Hilary. "At home at school, in the choir, everywhere. But about two years ago I decide to be a real singer, and started working with really cool singers musicians and songwriters. Best of all, I started working in th studio, experimenting and putting material together. I’ve reall fallen in love with the studio. I just know that a lot of my fan relate to the album." What kind of music can fans expect from Hilary on Metamorphosis? A chameleon-like variety of changing moods, from the romantic ballad "Where Did I Go Right?" to the ultimate break up song, "So Yesterday." From the tough-talkin' "Party Up" to the hard rockin' "Little Voice." "The music on the album is a little different from the pop songs everyone’s heard from me before, because Metamorphosis has all the kinds of music I like to listen to," Hilary explains. "There are a lot of different sounds, from rock to eletronic – with a whole range of tempos from some deep, slow songs, to some high-energy rock songs to give me a boost. Everybody goes through different moods and different feelings and sometimes when you put on your favorite song it makes you feel a little bit better." The 13 pop-rock songs on Metamorphosis were produced, arranged, written and mixed by the very best in the business. The album’s behind-the-scenes-talent includes Charlie Midnight (Joe Cocker, James Brown, Joni Mitchell) who contributed to nine tracks; The Matrix (Avril Lavigne, Christina Aguilera), the producing masterminds behind "So Yesterday," "Where Did I Go Right?" and "The Math"; Chico Bennett (Madonna, Usher, Destiny’s Child); Matthew Gerrard (Nick Carter); John Shanks (Michelle Branch); Kara DioGuardi (Celine Dion, Enrique Iglesias); singer-songwriter-producer Meredith Brooks; plus some of the best pop-rock musicians anywhere. "Can I tell you how awesome everyone’s been to work with? They are the very best writers and producers and musicians ever, and they’ve been so open to my opinions," Hilary says. "It was important to me that all the songs we recorded really meant something special to me personally. I got to talk with some of the writers and say, 'You know, I feel like this . . .' and they really got it, which is so cool. I loved the whole process. It’s so exciting. I love that the whole album really relates to me and my life." Two songs were special contributions from Hilary’s number one idol: her talented big sister, Haylie Duff. "Since she knows me better than anyone else in the world, Haylie wrote 'Sweet Sixteen,' a really fun song that totally relates to my life right now. She also came up with 'Inner Strength' and it's really beautiful. Very empowering and uplifting." Speaking of idols, here's what another one has to say: "Hilary is just completely a light to the world," no less an authority than Britney Spears told Popstar! magazine. "So beautiful and so incredibly sweet. Her music is amazing . . . she should just be herself and never change." It's difficult to comprehend all that Hilary Duff has accomplished in the past few years. Prior to Metamorphosis, Hilary had already sold 2.2 million albums, spent six weeks in the Billboard Top 10 and earned two platinum album awards. She has starred in one #1 television series, two hit movies, and has already made two more major films (20th Century Fox’s Cheaper By The Dozen with Steve Martin, and Warner Bros.' A Cinderella Story) to be released later this year. Plus, not one but two television specials will honor the big day she turns "Sweet Sixteen." Not bad for someone who really just wants her driver's license. # # # SignatureJoel344 Re: Hilary Duff's accomplishments. Yes. She has accomplished very much for a young woman. Now she can add veneer recipient to her extremely impressive resume. SignatureSue Sue Wrote: > Re: Hilary Duff's accomplishments. > Yes. She has accomplished > very much for a young woman. > > Now she can add veneer recipient > to her extremely impressive resume. But why??? She had natural and pretty teeth to begin with. Signaturebillkatz billkatz Wrote: > But why??? She had natural and pretty teeth to begin with. Apparently she did not think they were perfect enough Perhaps she suffers from body dysmorphia? Or perhaps some of her agents talked her into it... perhaps thi dentist to the stars thought she needed all that work done to achieve the smile that she envisioned . who knows Bottom line: She wanted it done and found a dentist willing to do it. Her mouth. Her career. HER CHOICE! Did the dentist overtreat? Seems some other dentist think so. Is she fully aware of the risks? One would hope so -- Su Sue wrote, Apparently she did not think they were perfect enough REPLY Yeah reminds me of the plastic surgery craze down in Rio. SignatureJoel344 Joel344 Wrote: > Apparently she did not think they were perfect enoug > > REPL > > Yeah reminds me of the plastic surgery craze down in Rio. Comment and Question As an advertising tool, some dentists think that this cosmetic dentistry craze has had a positive impact on the distribution of other dental services. They argue that when the public sees what dentists can do "artistically" speaking, mor people are drawn to the dentist office Just getting to the dentist has traditionall been lower on people's lists than some other wants and needs .. so if thi draws more people to the dentist, thi may have an overall postive impact o dental/oral health The denitst can then make the proper assessment of what is best for that patient. Perhaps mor needs to be improved before that patient ca even consider veneers... etc. So from that standpoint, there may b some healthy positives coming out o all this hype about "perfect smiles" etc Any thoughts on this angle Thanks. -Su -- Su Sue Wrote: > Comment and Question > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Thanks. -Sue Uhm, has the increased availability of boob jobs increased the numbe of women going for regular breast cancer screens? There might be correlation between these variables, but somehow I doubt there's an cause-and-effect relationship. In any event, I reckon the potential "positive health outcomes associated with the extreme makeover phenomenon are offset by th negative effects on a lot of people's self-esteem.. -- letsconnec letsconnect Wrote: > Uhm, has the increased availability of boob jobs increased the number o > women going for regular breast cancer screens? There might be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > associated with the extreme makeover phenomenon are offset by th > negative effects on a lot of people's self-esteem... First off, let me say this. I am not an advocate for all o these<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p make over procedures. IMO everything has gotten way out of hand. <o:p></o:p <o:p></o:p Yet since I have no real control over the media, the advances i technology and what it is that people WANT, I try not to let it "get t me." I would hope that individuals & families would deal with it a they wish. Parents raising their kids in a manner that “perfec plastic bodies†are not necessary for obtaining self-esteem, etc <o:p></o:p <o:p></o:p That said.<o:p></o:p I expected this comment to be made... comparison of plastic surgery an health awareness to cosmetic dentistry and oral healt awareness.<o:p></o:p <o:p></o:p I think letsconnect makes a good point however dentistry and medicin are a little different from one another.<o:p></o:p <o:p></o:p #1- Preventive insurance. More people have medical insurance tha dental. So from a monetary standpoint, more people have access t preventive medical care than preventive dental care. I would expec that fewer people are seeing the dentist than are visiting the doctor In fact it has been said that 50% of the population is not visiting dentist regularly.<o:p></o:p <o:p></o:p Increasing advertising of dental makeovers is placing an increasin importance on beautiful white teeth. This comes across even to th person who cannot afford much (but dang they make darn sure they hav cable tv)<o:p></o:p <o:p></o:p Now how does one get or keep beautiful white teeth?<o:p></o:p <o:p></o:p …. brushing regularly might be a good place to start<o:p></o:p …. maybe visiting a dentist once in awhile<o:p></o:p …. where does one start in order to inquire?<o:p></o:p <o:p></o:p #2- Subspecialites. Cosmetic dentistry is not necessarily subspecialty of dentistry like plastic surgery is in medicine. Thes procedures can be done by the general dentist. The general dentis takes an inventory of what this person needs and what is best fo their oral health as well as doing more extensive cosmetic procedure IF the patient wishes more. So in this regard, the dentist has mor influence on helping to maintain oral health than the plastic surgeo has on helping a patient maintain overall health.<o:p></o:p <o:p></o:p #3- Maintentance. When a person has cosmetic work done, my guess i they are very concerned about keeping it up. For example, they ar inclined to take very good care of their fake veneers (if they happe to go this route) as well as their real teeth <o:p></o:p I would love to hear more opinions. I know that veneers in and o themselves create some damage to the teeth.. but is it really extensiv enough to truly harm the patient’s long term oral health? <o:p></o:p <o:p></o:p Dentist opinions? Thanks -Sue <o:p></o:p <o:p></o:p :: <o:p></o:p>: -- Su There is truth is what Sue said. There is a subset of people, possibly even a majority who cannot stand to see their $1,000 dental benefit go down the drain .... so they do go to the dentist, with better dental health resulting as a by-product. Joel SignatureJoel344 Sue Wrote: > <o:p></o:p> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > dentist regularly. > :: <o:p></o:p>:: Nooo, not true!! See this bit for stats (from another thread).... Go to http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/hus.htm Scroll down to "Spreadsheet Files", and select "2004 Chartbook" (a PDF file). Tables 71 and 79 provide the relevant statistics. And in my own personal opinion, dentistry and medicine are not particularly dissimilar. But I may be in a minority here. Signatureletsconnect letsconnect Wrote: > Nooo, not true!! See this bit for stats (from another thread)... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > And in my own personal opinion, dentistry and medicine are no > particularly dissimilar. But I may be in a minority here. Letsconnect Please tell us the stats. The Pdf only has table of contents and 3 figures in Excel files... I cannot find the stats to which you refer So you are saying that more people have dental ins than medical o what exactly? I have a difficult time believing that. I will tr again Thanks ofr the link. It looks like a good one Su -- Su Sue Wrote: > Letsconnect > > Please tell us the stats. The Pdf only has table of contents and 3 > figures in Excel files... I cannot find the stats to which you refer. this might be a direct link (I hope) www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus04trend.pd Tables 71 and 79 Sue Wrote: > So you are saying that more people have dental ins than medical o > what exactly? No (see above), but the difference isn't as huge as one might think taking into account other factors (for example, if you remove th percentage of people who don't avail of their dental insurance due t fear, you end up with pretty similar figures) -- letsconnec letsconnect Wrote: > this might be a direct link (I hope): > www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus04trend.pdf [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > percentage of people who don't avail of their dental insurance due to > fear, you end up with pretty similar figures). Letsconnect, Table 71 shows the number of emergency medical visits Table 79 shows the number of dental visits You are comparing emergency medical visits to all dental visits. This is not what I am talking about. I think you may have misunderstood my message. In fact your statement: "(for example, if you remove the percentage of people who don't avail of their dental insurance due to fear, you end up with pretty similar figures)." Actually makes (strengthens) the point that I was trying to make. Leaving out insurance coverage entirely and leaving out any comparison to medical care Traditionally people have not readily availed themselves to dental preventive care (seeing the dentist every 6 months). Many often wait until there is an emergency. This is what I learned on DT. I have no stats to back me up.. this is just what I have heard over and over again from dentists. The point I was trying to make is that if people keep hearing and seeing smile makeovers, bleaching.. blah blah stuff in the media AND seeing other people having this stuff done... they may want to take more notice of their own smile and their own teeth. Where is the first place to start? -Increased homecare -Visiting a dentist If they WANT this stuff too... i.e. a beautiful smile.. they will start checking into it. If they check into it, they must see a denitst. If they see a dentist then they are automatically ahead in their oral health care... compared to not seeing a dentist. Once at the dentist they receive cleaning, oral cancer check, check for caries, education, floss, toothbrush, etc. If more people saw the dentist regularly and kept up with their homecare.. fewer would have the extensive problems later on that require emergency care and extraction. Letsconnect.. is this logic falling short somewhere? I am speculating of course.... Thanks, Sue SignatureSue Sue Wrote: > Table 71 shows the number of emergency medical visits > Table 79 shows the number of dental visits > > You are comparing emergency medical visits to all dental visits. I don't know, but the Table 71 I'm looking at says "Health care visits to doctor's offices, emergency departments, and home visits within the past 12 months"... Table 79 is "dental visits in the last year"... for both these tables, emergency visits would be included. Signatureletsconnect letsconnect Wrote: > I don't know, but the Table 71 I'm looking at says "Health care visits > to doctor's offices, emergency departments, and home visits within the > past 12 months"... Table 79 is "dental visits in the last year"... for > both these tables, emergency visits would be included. APOLOGIZE IN ADVANCE FOR THIS LENGTHY POST. Yet this is the heart of where my dental interests lie. I am still learning and have not worked in this field yet, but I am interested in working (volunteer or otherwise) in efforts toward reducing disparities in oral healthcare. I can see now that I did misread the title of table 71. With that said however, what point you are trying to make Letsconnect? Are you are making a point that # of medical and dental visits are similar? Are you making the point that healthcare needs and dental needs are similarly met, similarly unmet? In any case, we do have disparities in medical care and disparities in dental care. The following is JMO, based upon what I have studied to date: Although the reasons for these disparities are largely related to socioeconomics, I believe the solutions BEGIN by increasing public health awareness and education. In addition we need to increase the number of minority professionals to help bridge the gap that we see within our minority populations that lack adequate care. There are still huge barriers re: comfort level & language barriers for many non Caucasian and immigrant populations. We need to increase the numbers of professionals practicing in rural and remote areas. In addition, as you well know Letsconnect, there is still a lot of fear associated with going to the dentist. This fear can only be reduced through increased patient education, caring professionals and the use of technological advances that minimize painful experiences. I also believe we need to increase the WANT for dental services and educate the public on the IMPORTANCE of oral health; how this can and DOES affect overall health. Dental care has traditionally been a much overlooked aspect in overall healthcare. …… and PERHAPS with the advent of bleaching and veneer procedures; the advertising and excitement that this has effected … as superficial as it may seem to some.. PERHAPS this may effect an increased interest in dentistry and oral health…. not only from the lay public’s viewpoint, but also the professional’s viewpoint (i.e. more young people interested in going into the profession). The trick (I think) will be to maintain a sense of professionalism and trust re: dentist/patient relationship. Pressure "Sales" within the office setting will not work, and are not right either (IMHO). If dentistry is to remain largely a privately run “business†(as opposed to socialized and/or HMO), we need to make sure that awareness for dentistry is maintained in a positive manner… and this may very well be happening now with the bleach ads etc. We also need to be concerned about rising costs of bread and butter dental procedures for those economically strapped regions. By catering only to the wealthy, dentists may blow themselves right out of private "business" if they become greedy, IMHO. Opening the public's eyes is the first step. IF (and perhaps this is a big if) bleach ads, veneer ads and the like can get people to visit a dentist, this is a positive, IMHO. It is up to dentists to use this “hype†in a responsible manner and not get caught up in greed. Instead of fighting this trend, dentists can embrace this and use it in a responsible manner. I welcome opinions to the contrary Letsconnect (and anyone else who). I am looking for "novel" ideas... I do not mind tomatoes thrown. Thanks, -Sue P.S. Flap says he has not seen disparities in dental care in CA. Perhaps since he treats some poor on a locum tenums basis this is his working perspective. However all of the literature that I have read speaks otherwise. CA was one of the states with the largest reported disparities as published in the Surgeon General's report 2000. CA is making great strides, but disparities still exist. Check the CDA website if you would like to learn more about this. SignatureSue Sue Wrote: > Apparently she did not think they were perfect enough. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Is she fully aware of the risks? One would hope so. Well Sue, There's a website that tells me that I can get a boob job for $139.00 a month (and more power to them). Hilary's teeth look about as natural as breast augmentation on a Hell's Angel. The point is that people needlessly self mutilate their bodies for one reason or another. That girl's teeth looked fine and chances are that they would have lasted all her life. I don't think that any dentist will tell a twenty year old that veneers will last them a lifetime. The Hippocratic maxim comes to mind... Signaturebillkatz billkatz Wrote: > Well Sue, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > The Hippocratic maxim comes to mind... Bill, How do you know that Hilary was not aware of all of this? How do you know how much was discussed prior to making this decision? Certainly she did not NEED this done for her health. I agree with you in that she did not NEED this to be done for her smile. She had a beautiful natural smile. However she is a celebrity. Celebrities may have a different mind set than you and I. Do you really think the dentist "mutilated" Hilary and that hilary will now suffer from this? She seems happy with her new smile even if you think it looks horrible. Do you know what will happen in 5, 10, 20 years? She may or may not have other complications resulting in the need for root canal treatment.. (from what I undertsand as a non-dentoid). However, neither one of us know what was discussed with her. Ultimately it was her choice. For such an accomplished young woman, I think she may have enough intelligence to make up her own mind. Where does peronsal resposility lie? SignatureSue >> all her life. I don't think that any dentist will tell a twenty year >> old that veneers will last them a lifetime. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >of all of this? How do you know how much >was discussed prior to making this decision? C'mon now, who really gives a sh*t about Hillary Duff ? Not me. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com W_B Wrote: > >> all her life. I don't think that any dentist will tell a twenty year > >> old that veneers will last them a lifetime. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com I dunno. But maybe her parents care. Afterall her new look might be providing them a nice retirement nest. SignatureSue >W_B Wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >Afterall her new look might be providing them a >nice retirement nest. Doubtful. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > C'mon now, who really gives a sh*t about Hillary Duff ? Who, or what is Hilary Duff? Signature/ Amatus / > >>W_B Wrote: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >> C'mon now, who really gives a sh*t about Hillary Duff ? > >Who, or what is Hilary Duff? It's what Senator Clinton sits on... ;^) -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com W_B Wrote: > >> C'mon now, who really gives a sh*t about Hillary Duff ? > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > . > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Whoa. Now that's bad. ... but somehow cleverly funny SignatureSue > > C'mon now, who really gives a sh*t about Hillary Duff ? > > Who, or what is Hilary Duff? That reminds me. On the TV, they had one of these plastic surgery shows. In one episode the cosmetic surgeon extracts 4 of the patients teeth (I think it was Jenny Mcarthy's mom, during the celebrity addition) to place a bridge or some kind of replacement with fake teeth. The patient (who may in fact have been JM mom) then thanks the dentist profusely for extracting most of her teeth...BUT, giving her the perfect smile! *WARNING. THIS IS A COMMERCIAL*---> Hilary Hahn... not Hilary Duff.... (temporary hijack or whatever you want ot call it). But this is mainly for JOelY because he is from Philadelphia..... *Admitted to Philadelphia's Curtis Institute of Music in 1990 _at_the_age_of_ten_, Hilary Hahn* made her major orchestra debut a year and a half later with the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra. Her 1993 Philadelphia Orchestra debut was followed by engagements with the Cleveland Orchestra, New York Philharmonic and Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra. In March 1995, at age 15, Ms. Hahn made her German debut playing the Beethoven concerto with Lorin Maazel and the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra, in a concert broadcast on radio and television throughout Europe. Two months later she received the Avery Fisher Career Grant. In 1996, Ms. Hahn completed the graduation requirements for her bachelor's degree at Curtis, signed an exclusive recording contract with Sony Classical, and made her Carnegie Hall debut in New York, as soloist with the Philadelphia Orchestra. SignatureSue >The Hippocratic maxim comes to mind... ITYM The Hypocritic ? <G> -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Your post: Re: Hilary Duff's accomplishments. Yes. She has accomplished very much for a young woman. Now she can add veneer recipient to her extremely impressive resume. -- Sue Flap's Reply: Hilary Duff did not need any cosmetic dentistry or veneers. Check out the before and after photos at my blog : http://flapsblog.com/?p=797. Tell me dentites out there what was the indication for this treatment? Flap http://flapsblog.com Flap Wrote: > Hilary Duff did not need any cosmetic dentistry or veneers. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Flap Wasn't there something about LVI drawing their inspiration from Prince Charles? Oops, sorry, it was Fibonacci... The indication was that Hilary chipped her teeth on a microphone (was that a euphemism for something ;-)?) and the current trend is towards horses. It'll be golf next week, I'm sure :-). Signatureletsconnect Your Post: Flap Wrote: > Hilary Duff did not need any cosmetic dentistry or veneers. > Check out the before and after photos at my blog : > http://flapsblog.com/?p=797. > Tell me dentites out there what was the indication for this treatment? > Flap Wasn't there something about LVI drawing their inspiration from Prince Charles? Oops, sorry, it was Fibonacci... The indication was that Hilary chipped her teeth on a microphone (was that a euphemism for something ;-)?) and the current trend is towards horses. It'll be golf next week, I'm sure :-). -- letsconnect Flap's Reply: I think you have it right with the equine relationship. Really a shame! I recommend she have them redone by Pascal Magne at USC, Los Angeles. He and Ron Goldstein in Atlanta, Georgia have the best porcelain veneer work I have seen (Mark Friedman in Encino, California is good, too). Pascal's brother is a porcelain technician and his porcelain is truely a work of art. Flap http://flapsblog,com >Tell me dentites out there what was the indication for this treatment? > >Flap Large ammounts of ca$h -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >> "At the age of twenty-two, American violinist Hilary Hahn has already >> established herself as one of the most accomplished and compelling [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Steve Since she "established herself" , Hilary is neither compelling nor accomplished. <g> -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com W_B Wrote: > On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 14:35:28 GMT, Mark & Steven Bornfel > <BORNFELDMUNG@DENTALTWINS.COM>wrote [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Take out the G'RBAG > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Note to Dr Steve and W_B: I was referring to Hilary Hahn, th accomplished young violinist. It was a joke. I don't even know wh Hilary Duff is. Guess I've been spending too much time on dentalboard and not paying attn to teeny-bopper music. ... YIKES.. Now that is scary thought.. -- Su Joel344 Wrote: > Who is Hillary Duff by the way? I suppose I should know, but I don't. > > Joel Dunno, but this is her dentist, apparently: http://www.dentistofthestars.com/ Signatureletsconnect > Joel344 Wrote: > > Who is Hillary Duff by the way? I suppose I should know, but I don't. > > > > Joel > Dunno, but this is her dentist, apparently: > http://www.dentistofthestars.com/ Holy BuckShot!!! This guy is amazing! Just look at this: 2) Dr. Sands' Famous Virtually Painless Injection Most of our patients at Kevin B Sands DDS never know they have received an injection. That's because of Dr. Sands' famous virtually "Painless Injection" technique. A topical anesthetic is applied to the tissue with a swab. This anesthetic painlessly numbs the spot where the doctor will give you one of the most gentle injections. ----- I gotta get me some o' this 'Topical Anesthetic' stuff.... Goll-y they sure are advanced ovah theah in Bev-er-leigh Hills. Cheeahs SP SignatureTake out the TRASH to reply > Holy BuckShot!!! This guy is amazing! Just look at this: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I gotta get me some o' this 'Topical Anesthetic' stuff.... Goll-y they > sure are advanced ovah theah in Bev-er-leigh Hills. LO friggin' L :-P!! Oh, I wish I was a website designer sometimes... But surprisingly enough, there's a point to this story... see, if you're following dental phobia boards (like myself), there's no end to the posts about how brilliant the dentist was cos s/he put on topical... suggesting it's not the norm... why not adopt it as standard practice then? > LO friggin' L :-P!! Oh, I wish I was a website designer sometimes... > But surprisingly enough, there's a point to this story... see, if > you're following dental phobia boards (like myself), there's no end to > the posts about how brilliant the dentist was cos s/he put on > topical... suggesting it's not the norm... why not adopt it as standard > practice then? Because it IS the norm... at least around here (Quebec) it is. It is relatively easy to do a painless injection: put topical on the dried mucosa for at least a minute. Place a piece of gauze in the vestibule behind where you're going to inject. Start by only touching the mucosa, and go s..l..o..w..l..y. Ask the patient to make a sound if the injection is too painful (lifting hands is too slow and moves the patient around in the chair). That's about it. The thing is that it takes a bit more time, that's all. So you can tell your dentist to do that, and ask the other dental phobics to try it as well. It really isn't tough. The trouble is that you want it to be painless, but you also want it to go FAST, because having a needle stuck in your mouth is stressful. It isn't possible (IME) to do both. Try asking your dentist to do that. SP SignatureTake out the TRASH to reply Anyone know about the needleless injections? I saw one at a recen medical convention. They are used primarily to vaccinate children. Wel thirty years ago I had a dental one. It was quite a gizmo. First, on warns the patient because it makes a popping sound. Second, one place the business end in close contact with the mucosa. Pull the trimmer an BAM! It pops lidocaine (xylocaine, anesthetic) right under the mucosa Then one injects with ZERO perception by the patient. This is for infiltration. A gizmo for nerve block has not bee invented. Joe -- Joel34 Anyone interested in this technology needs to become aware of "The Wand" too. I am not overly impressed with it. A steady hand is equivalent. Joe -- Joel34 Joel344 Wrote: > Anyone interested in this technology needs to > become aware of "The Wand" too > > I am not overly impressed with it. A steady han > is equivalent. That's true, though the Wand is great for psychological effect Apparently, it's also good for some fancy blocks -- letsconnec >Joel344 Wrote: >> Anyone interested in this technology needs to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >That's true, though the Wand is great for psychological effect. >Apparently, it's also good for some fancy blocks. The only thing the Wand is good for is separating the doc from some hard earned bucks. BTW this idea has been around for a very long time IIRC ~1870 (not sure of exact era) -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Joel344 Wrote: > > Anyone interested in this technology needs to > > become aware of "The Wand" too. Dentists have been using magic wands for years to make certain material safety issues dissappear! Stove99pipe Wrote: > <letsconnect @myway.com=""> > Because it IS the norm... at least around here (Quebec) it is. It's the norm around here as well, the point was that it doesn't appear to be the norm around Beverly Hills (otherwise, why would it be included as a "special feature" on that website)? </letsconnect>Stove99pipe Wrote: > <letsconnect @myway.com=""> So you can tell your dentist to do that, and > ask the other dental [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Try asking your dentist to do that. I'm familiar with the technique you're describing, but personally have never had a problem with injections anyway. </letsconnect> Signatureletsconnect > Stove99pipe Wrote: > > <letsconnect @myway.com=""> > > Because it IS the norm... at least around here (Quebec) it is. > It's the norm around here as well, the point was that it doesn't > appear to be the norm around Beverly Hills (otherwise, why would it be > included as a "special feature" on that website)? Maybe in Beverly Hills things go so fast they need to remind people that this is possible. > </letsconnect>Stove99pipe Wrote: > > <letsconnect @myway.com=""> So you can tell your dentist to do that, and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > never had a problem with injections anyway. > </letsconnect> OK. I wasn't aware that there are sites for dental phobics, either. Maybe they could pop in here and ask some Phobic type questions. Cheeahs SP SignatureTake out the TRASH to reply Your response: Flap wrote: Most of the things you post (whether it be on Dental Town, DentalCom or Flaps Blog) are either falsehoods, misconstrued, mischaracterized or edited and/or deleted by you later.....or you apologize later. I don't want to say you maliciously characterize or misunderstand things but it is hard not to believe. Perhaps it is because you are not a dentist. In any case, I would appreciate in the future that you deal with posts on SMD without the personal attacks and name calling. We can, then, all get along. Flap 'http://flapsblog.com' (http://flapsblog.com/) <!-- / message -->********************************************************* Addressing Flaps' post. *Falsehoods*: If what I say is a considered a falsehood, I would expect someone to provide evidence that refutes my statement. It is only in that manner that healthy conversation can take place. *Edits:* -The majority of my edits are to correct typos -I also may add an afterthought to an original post rather than creating a new post -If I sense that I have mischaracterised or misinterpreted a situation, I may even delete my OWN post in order to resume order and resolution to conflict -If I sense that I have unduly offended someone with my post and think that an apology is warranted, I apologize If Flaps believes that my edits indicate malicious behavior or an attempt to misconstrue a "truth," he is mischaracterizing me and he is dead WRONG. I believe that editing and deleting one's owns posts for the sake of coming to a resolution is mature, responsible and acceptable behavior within an online group setting. *Personal attacks and name calling:* I find this comment by Flap funny. Flap calls Justin Shaeffer a moron, Rod Kurthy a bully. He makes harsh and misguided personal judgements/ statements re: Howard and Judith Farran, Sameer Puri and other Townies whom he does not know. Now Flap requests that I refrain from personal attacks and name calling. I will stop if you will Flap! To Flap: There are only 2 times I have called anyone on the boards a name in anger. Once on Dentaltown when one person was relentlessly after me and trying to discredit me and my motives for being there. I called him an A-hole. The other time was when you and Justin Schaeffer broke up your Dentalcom partnership. You openly made derogatory statements about Justin and called him a moron. You accused Justin of making "kiss a.s " posts on DT and continue to make derogatory posts about Dnetalcom after your partnership broke up. You expected Justin to keep the stupid, slanderous, altered representation of Sameer Puri's business up on Dentalcom. I thought you were acting like a complete Prick and I told you so. I am sorry I called you one, but in my opinion, your behavior certainly deserved that comment. Whatever Flap. That is the reality of the behavior you displayed on the boards. That is the reality of the behavior that I displayed. What is done is done. I am not interested in having to pick your side whenever you have a personal grievance against someone else Flap. I prefer to maintain and express my own opinions. I have no grievances with DT or Justin. From now I will ignore what you say about them. It difficult not to chime in because I find much of what you say about DT and some of the people there, akin to tabloid news. I am simply not interested reading that stuff anymore. You are not perfect and I am not perfect. If we can both realize that, then perhaps we can get along. I prefer to move onto productive conversation now. Sue My Reply: Thanks for making my point again. You are wrong on some many points and have intentionally mischaracterized others that it would be too time-consuming and boring to refute them one at a time. And not interesting at all to the SMD folks. Sue, you need to move on. Let's get back to dentistry. Flap http://flapsblog.com Amber, Your comment was not deleted. In fact, it is the number one comment on the blog as I write this. The comments section of my blog is moderated and I was away from my PC for most of today, Sunday. If your comments are not personal in nature, like Sue's have been, they will be favorably moderated. If you post spam, you will be banned. Flap http://flapsblog.com > Your comment was not deleted. Yeah, it's there now. Strange, it vanished for a while and then came back. Must've been a technical glitch :-) ! Nope, all comments are moderated and it has been there since it was approved. No glitch. Flap http://flapsblog.com Amber, I wonder if she had to wait 3 months to see that cosmetic dentist. J/K. The Hollywood message boards have no been kind to her either. BTW has anyone seen the bad plastic surgery on Farah Fawcett? OMG!!!! Flap http://flapsblog.com >Amber, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >http://flapsblog.com Yep, that nose is awful. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > I wonder if she had to wait 3 months to see that cosmetic dentist. > J/K. I would imagine she went private. Even though it doesn't look like it.
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