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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / July 2005

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RCT perforation help

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LB - 26 Jul 2005 23:28 GMT
I'm new to this group but don't know where to go for some information. I had
a severe toothache about 6 weeks ago. I'm new to this area so I just went to
a local dentist for help. I was x-rayed and told I have a problem and needed
root canal therapy. They gave me an appointment for 3 1/2 weeks later to
have this done. The pain was severe and I couldn't wait that long. I located
another dentist that was referred to me 160 miles from where I live. I got
an emergency appointment and he did an emergency pulpotomy. That was an
instant relief. However, during the second visit he did a thorough exam and
tested for bone density. It was discovered that another dentist did a root
canal and went through the side of my tooth and the screw/post is about 1/8
inch into the bone. This caused a 50% bone loss. The dentist told me an
extraction is eminent and the sooner the better. My question is.......
Should  a dentist that perforated a tooth at least tell the patient??? Now,
I'll probably be needing bridgework causing extra expense...... Thanks for
any information.
Fawks - 27 Jul 2005 02:18 GMT
Root perforation with a screw post attempting to rebuild a severely
damaged
tooth is certainly an unwanted complication.  If the original dentist
knew that
the 'accident' occured, he should have informed you of the situation
and
warned you of potential complications.

That said, once it happened, there wasn't a lot to be done.  If the
tooth did
not hurt, there was no infection, and nothing fell apart, leaving it
alone was
not a bad idea.  If you had known about it, it could have been checked
with
an X-ray once in a while.

As far as a bridge and extra expense, that would have happened at any
time
the tooth was lost.  That could have been when the post was originally
inserted, or now.  What's the difference?

If a dentist screws up half of the post he tries to place, that would
be terrible.
If this is one out of 100, s*** happens.  When was the post inserted?
How
much did it cost?  What did you pay out of your pocket?

We could also get into a discussion about how many posts are really
needed
anyway, but that's another issue.

Best wishes,
Fawks
Dr Steve - 27 Jul 2005 13:40 GMT
I don't get having to wait 3.5 weeks for pain relief or travel 160 miles to
get care sooner.  Is this in the UK or is this an HMO scheme?

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S.
Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
> Root perforation with a screw post attempting to rebuild a severely
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> Best wishes,
> Fawks
LB - 27 Jul 2005 20:50 GMT
> I don't get having to wait 3.5 weeks for pain relief or travel 160 miles to
> get care sooner.  Is this in the UK or is this an HMO scheme?

I live in upper NYS there simply isn't that many dentists here. The dr. that
did the rct in question has developed something new. I had a problem with
another tooth and he wanted to do a rct AND grind down my bone so the cap
would more area to hold to. This caused me much concern. I went to another
young dr. She advised me I didn't need to do that but a simple rct with a
post would do just fine. She started the rct and perforated that tooth's
root and told me to see a specialist. I just about gave up and the tooth
just crumbled. Now I have three roots overgrown with gum tissue. . In
regards to this post. A quite large filling fell out and I didn't seek
immediate help from the first two dds's. Instead I sourced another new dds
in the area. That's when she took an x-ray and told me I needed rct and sent
me home with some anti-biotics and an appointment for 3 1/2 weeks later. I
didn't sleep for most of that time and I was getting sick from swallowing
Anbosol. I refused to go to ANY local dds now and just hoped for the tooth
to die on it's own. My daughter works for the US govt. and she made an appt.
for me. where she works down state. This dds had all the confidence and made
a diagnosis of a "hot nerve" and did a pulpotomy.... In 20 minuets he was
done and ALL the pain was gone. That's how I came to travel 160 miles for
treatment..... He's now my permanent dds.

> > Root perforation with a screw post attempting to rebuild a severely
> > damaged
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> > Best wishes,
> > Fawks
W_B - 27 Jul 2005 21:04 GMT
Any chance that you can post x-ray images here ?

Otherwise, we are just shooting in the dark.

There are some options for treatment of a perforated root
beside extraction.

Root amputation
Repair with MTA

>> I don't get having to wait 3.5 weeks for pain relief or travel 160 miles
>to
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>done and ALL the pain was gone. That's how I came to travel 160 miles for
>treatment..... He's now my permanent dds.

--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dr Steve - 28 Jul 2005 16:39 GMT
I take issue with any office not wiling to see a patient in pain right away,
or at least the very next business day.  3 weeks later just does not "fit
the bill".

IF the effected tooth did not have much tooth structure (or perhaps none at
all) above the gum tissues, a post would never have held up long term.  Such
a tooth either must have the crown lengthening surgery or be extracted,
PERIOD.  As in anything, there are some exceptions which can occur with
*proper informed consent*.

Then, we could discuss your problem with not getting appropriate care when
you know there is problem with the tooth as it sits in your mouth.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S.
Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
>> I don't get having to wait 3.5 weeks for pain relief or travel 160 miles
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
>> > Best wishes,
>> > Fawks
LB - 27 Jul 2005 13:48 GMT
> Root perforation with a screw post attempting to rebuild a severely
> damaged
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> and
> warned you of potential complications.

It wasn't a severely damaged tooth. I was told there was an abcess and rct
was the only remedy.

> That said, once it happened, there wasn't a lot to be done.  If the
> tooth did
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> the tooth was lost.  That could have been when the post was originally
> inserted, or now.  What's the difference?

The difference is, if the rct had been done correctly OR I was directed to a
specialist I would not have to have the tooth extracted and go through the
added expence of "bridging" the missing tooth. Now I'm out $1200 PLUS the
newly discovered needed work expense. That's what really "frosts"me. I paid
the FULL amount for an "accident" and not even being told. Certainly if the
dr. brought his car to a body shop for repairs and  was treated the same way
he'd have a different attitude......

> If a dentist screws up half of the post he tries to place, that would
> be terrible.
> If this is one out of 100, s*** happens.

When was the post inserted?
About 5yrs ago.

> How much did it cost?
If I recall correctly, I paid well over $1200 for the complete treatment
which does include the crown.

 What did you pay out of your pocket?
Every penny of the cost. I don't have dental ins.

> We could also get into a discussion about how many posts are really needed
anyway, but that's another issue.

Seems like almost every time one is needed..... 20 yrs ago I had a front
tooth capped. At that time the Dr. said I don't need a post. He inserted two
small pins on either side of the canal. This held  all the while without any
problems. The dr. that did the above mentioned rct told me  the pins were
wrong and it was bad dentistry. He then told me I needed a rct for that
tooth. Now I have a new cap along with an expensive rct.
Dr Steve - 27 Jul 2005 14:02 GMT
For a long time, dentistry taught us to place posts in every tooth which
received RCT.  That has now come around 180 degrees.  Root perforation is a
known possible complication of post placement.  Many teeth have laterally
flattened canals which do not show up on x-ray images.  The post is placed
in a conventional manner which looks great on the post-treatment x-ray
image.  Many years later, an x-ray image is made with a "funny" angle, and
the perforation is seen.  Generally, some slowly progressive bone loss
occurs around the perforation.  A lot of these can be effectively treated by
removing the crown and post, and filling the defect with MTA.  Many can be
treated with surgical therapy.  Some can be left alone.  A few are lost.
Just as any ride in an automobile carries some risk, so does any dental
treatment.

Now, if your previous DDS knew about the perforation, he/she has an
obligation to discuss it with you on ethical grounds.  If the perforation
does not show up on routine imaging and you do not have any symptoms, the
previous DDS may not even be aware of the perforation.

If you go to a body shop and the mechanic fails to prime and paint the inner
surface of the new replacement body panel, the owner may not know about it,
you certainly won't know until it begins to rust out again.

Ask The Webby about an iatroepidemic.  The term refers to organized
medicine/dentistry performing specific treatment because the current state
of knowledge says this is the best choice of therapy.  Later on, it is
discovered that the course of therapy used was not optimum and should not
have been used by the profession because it causes other problems.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S.
Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
>> Root perforation with a screw post attempting to rebuild a severely
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
> wrong and it was bad dentistry. He then told me I needed a rct for that
> tooth. Now I have a new cap along with an expensive rct.
Steven Fawks - 27 Jul 2005 16:34 GMT
> It wasn't a severely damaged tooth. I was told there was an abcess and rct
> was the only remedy.

If it needed a root canal, post, and crown, it was severely damaged at
some point.

> When was the post inserted?
> About 5yrs ago.
>
> If I recall correctly, I paid well over $1200 for the complete treatment
> which does include the crown.

I've paid $1200 for less than 5 years of service for many things
(not related to dentistry).  Each time, I would have liked to
have had much better results.

>>We could also get into a discussion about how many posts are really needed
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> wrong and it was bad dentistry. He then told me I needed a rct for that
> tooth. Now I have a new cap along with an expensive rct.

If the existing work lasted 20 years, I couldn't say it was 'bad
dentistry'.  I find it interesting that this fellow was quick to
bad mouth some of your existing work, yet failed to deliver anything
better.

Sorry,
Fawks
 
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