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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / July 2005Define "elective" surgery or treatment
Taken from: http://www.ut.regence.com/physician/library/manuals/adminManual/docs/c1De fOfTerms.pdf Elective: Medical care/treatment, particularly surgery, not immediately necessary to maintain life or health (can often be scheduled days or weeks in advance). A great deal of surgery is "elective". Even heart bypass surgery can be elective, given the standard meaning in the definition above. Webby >Taken from: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Webby Complete and utter bulls*t. Imagine this: A male patient is wheeled in on a gurney into the ER. He has been shot in the thigh, the femoral artery has been nicked and the femoral vein has been transected. Without surgery the patient will exsanguinate. In the mid 1860's the limb would be amputated. AVN cauterized. Now what is elective ? Scenario #2 41 yo male presents to the ER with crushing pain in the sternum, sweating profusely, and complains of left arm/shoulder pain. BP 180/72, HR 132, Pallor, etc... What do you do ? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Webby you gotta get this concept. They don't call them physicians *--or--* surgeons for no reason. Check the history. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE > >Taken from: > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Imagine this: > A male patient is wheeled in on a gurney into the ER. > He has been shot in the thigh, the femoral artery has [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Now what is elective ? Emergency trauma to the ED. I do not see your point. > Scenario #2 > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > What do you do ? Again, emergency care via the ED. > $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > Webby you gotta get this concept. I have no trouble with emergency illness or emergency trauma. > They don't call them physicians *--or--* surgeons for no reason. I think they're called physicians and surgeons. > Check the history. Come on, W_B. What's got you in such a stir??? Maybe you need to get some fresh air. Webby > -- > W_B > > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Take out the G'RBAGE >> Now what is elective ? > >Emergency trauma to the ED. I do not see your point. There, you finally stuck the nail on the head. You are blind to anyone else's POV. >> Scenario #2 >> What do you do ? > >Again, emergency care via the ED. Mr. Ed ? Typical. >> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ >> Webby you gotta get this concept. > >I have no trouble with emergency illness or emergency trauma. Sure you do, you said: " I do not see your point." >> They don't call them physicians *--or--* surgeons for no reason. > >I think they're called physicians and surgeons. Actually they are one or the other, there is seldom much in-between. >> Check the history. > >Come on, W_B. What's got you in such a stir??? Maybe you need to get >some fresh air. Fire up the West-Coast Bong. Now shall we get back to your point of: >"I am really talking about medically necessary elective surgery. " Reiterate: Oxymoron. We will never agree Webby, why do you persist in trying to convert me to your POV ? I actually don't care if you ever understand my POV. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE [cut] > We will never agree Webby, why do you persist in trying > to convert me to your POV ? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Take out the G'RBAGE W_B, whatever you wish. Webby Quite frankly, I'm confused. Whatever it was that you, W_B, didn't understand about what I wrote is beyond me. You offered two scenarios and asked me to comment. I did. Both were clearly Emergency Department (ED) cases. One was trauma and the other acute illness. What is there to dispute? Each case was in the ED (ER) where they should have been, IMO. Whoever saw to it that they got there, did the correct thing, IMHO. Anyway, for what it's worth, I don't understand what is wrong with my POV or how it differs from your POV even though you are certain we disagree. If there is some miscommunication, I'd like to see it straightened out if possible. Webby > >> Now what is elective ? > > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Take out the G'RBAGE >Anyway, for what it's worth, I don't understand what is wrong with my >POV or how it differs from your POV even though you are certain we [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Webby Webby wrote: >"I am really talking about medically necessary elective surgery." My point is that I believe that necessary v. elective are mutually exclusive terms. Hence, oxymoron. From WordNet (r) 2.0 : oxymoron n : conjoining contradictory terms (as in `deafening silence') [also: oxymora (pl)] -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE What does ED stand for. Webby, I understand you to say not all surgery is elective. Just some. After all, all surgery is not done on an emergency basis. Or is this completely out of line as to the subject being discussed. Or am I out of line. Would not be too surprised. And no one can surpass me for being a whiner. It is what I do best. Gail > What does ED stand for. > Webby, I understand you to say not all surgery is elective. Just some. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Gail You know, in my region the Emergency Room hasn't been called that for so many years that I forget that maybe "Emergency Department" isn't the standard across America. The ED is the Emergency Department, same as an Emergency Room. I guess it has to do with staffing of a "department" of a hospital. Yes, of course not all surgery is elective. Some is. Maybe even most surgery is elective. Think about it. How much surgery could people do without???? I say *plenty*. But ... I might not shout that in a room full of surgeons. ;-) Case in point: A relative recently had a leg amputation done because of poor circulation causing a dreadfully painful and debilitating ulcer without any chance of resolution. He didn't want the surgery because he thought that at his advanced age (and some social reasons), it might just be his time to let life run its course. He didn't have to have it done to save his life; he could have lived months and months/year or longer in terrible pain and without any quality of life if he refused surgery. He *needed* it done to improve the quality of his remaining life. It was elective surgery; meaning that it could be scheduled soon without jeopardizing his life. It was just a matter of how long he was willing to suffer as he was. So you see, elective surgery *can* and often is also elective surgery. I hope these comments help to clarify. Webby In article <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-D48E31.18575016072005@news-rdr-02.socal. rr.com>, [cut] > So you see, elective surgery *can* and > often is also elective [sic] surgery. > > I hope these comments help to clarify. > > Webby Oops. I deleted words and failed to put some back: "...elective surgery *can* and often is also elective and medically necessary surgery." Webby >In article ><nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-D48E31.18575016072005@news-rdr-02.socal. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Webby Nope, you said it right the first time. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE > You know, in my region the Emergency Room hasn't been called that for so > many years that I forget that maybe "Emergency Department" isn't the > standard across America. The ED is the Emergency Department, same as an > Emergency Room. I guess it has to do with staffing of a "department" of > a hospital. I beg to differ. My wife called her doctor's office yesterday when he wasn't available, and she was told to go to the "E.R." When I talked to the hospital staff later on the phone, I was told that she was done in the "E.R." and had been sent to another room. This is in San Diego. Yes, I have heard various staff members refer to the "Emergency Department" over the last couple of years, and I suppose it's possible that the staffers my wife and I talked to yesterday had so many years of experience that they automatically called it the "E.R." But I haven't heard of any Initial Police changing the familiar term officially. Not yet, anyway. ;-) - dentaldoc > > You know, in my region the Emergency Room hasn't been called that for so > > many years that I forget that maybe "Emergency Department" isn't the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > - dentaldoc Funny isn't it? After reading your post, I did a Google search on the subject wondering if I had sort of lost my mind! Hey, it's possible ... ;-) Search: The first was for "children's hospital emergency department". From there I refined my search to "hospital emergency department". If I had been talking to the "elderly lady next door" or "the so-called man on the street", I suppose I might have just said "ER" or "Emergency Room" because you are right; it is like a comfortable old shoe. But because around my house and in our circle of "friends" we've used the term ED and Emergency Department for so long ... really ... I just forgot that I might be using too progressive a term in our environment. I guess we call our "freeways" freeways even though some are toll roads... something like that. And even though we have some roads designated as "expressways" ... I have yet to figure out why ... so I still call it a freeway and hope I'm not talking to a CalTrans engineer. ;-) Hey Bill, do you have any sunshine at your place????? Gloom, gloom and a peek of blue but I think I see some shadows on the ground. Maybe spring is less than six weeks away and winter will not last much longer .... just joking (I know it's summer). Webby ;-) In article <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-F055E8.14415119072005@news-rdr-03.socal. rr.com>, [cut] > > I beg to differ. My wife called her doctor's office yesterday when he > > wasn't available, and she was told to go to the "E.R." > > > > When I talked to the hospital staff later on the phone, I was told that > > she was done in the "E.R." and had been sent to another room. [cut] P.S. Bill, I hope your wife is okay. I'm sorry I didn't say anything the first time around. Shame on me!! Sabra > In article > <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-F055E8.14415119072005@news-rdr-03.socal. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Sabra Yes, she's better now and is coming home today. They wanted to keep her another night for observation. And yes, I heard another staffer refer to the "Emergency Department" yesterday, so I guess the term is catching up. With the "E.R." TV show reruns in the future, will they have to change the name to "ED?" Makes me think of a talking horse instead of a hospital. - dentaldoc > > In article > > <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-F055E8.14415119072005@news-rdr-03.socal. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > - dentaldoc I'm very happy to know that she's better and on her way home. In the UK they called that TV show "errrrr" ... did not pronounce the letters E and R as we do. I had no idea what they were talking about when they were talking about "that TV (T and V) show ERRRRRR!!! They refer to emergency rooms and departments as Casualty ...... as in, "You need to be seen in Casualty" .... now that's odd!!!!! Webby >> P.S. Bill, I hope your wife is okay. I'm sorry I didn't say anything >> the first time around. Shame on me!! [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >- dentaldoc Or that other thing 'erectile dysfunction'.... -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >> In article >> <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-F055E8.14415119072005@news-rdr-03.socal. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >the name to "ED?" Makes me think of a talking horse instead of a >hospital. Haha.. we have the programme ER over here. I don't think anyone knows what it means really, it's just the name of the programme. We call the hospital department A & E. > >> In article > >> <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-F055E8.14415119072005@news-rdr-03.socal. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > what it means really, it's just the name of the programme. We call > the hospital department A & E. A&E - Accident and Emergency (I believe to be correct!?) Here's something interesting from an American perspective: > Casualty Treatment On Your Doorstep > Document Actions [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Work could start in the new year, with the scheme being brought in by the end > of 2004. [cut] Got a good laugh out of your comment about the ER program. ... since ED sounds like a TV show (Mr. Ed from years ago) A&E sure makes me think of "Arts and Entertainment"!!! Such confusion!!! And the BBC has a report in archives concerning the causualty care department staff shortages. From that report, I found this: "The trust said patients with any concerns should call NHS Direct on 0845 4647, who would advise whether they should attend an accident and emergency department." Americans would never think to attend an emergency "facility" no matter what we call it! ;-) Attend???????? Gotta love the Brits with their precision language!! ;-) Webby Webby In article <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-73E6C3.13502123072005@news-rdr-02.socal. rr.com>, [cut] I forgot the link! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3151035.stm > And the BBC has a report in archives concerning the causualty care > department staff shortages. From that report, I found this: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Webby TW >> >> In article >> >> <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-F055E8.14415119072005@news-rdr-03.socal. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >A&E - Accident and Emergency (I believe to be correct!?) Yes. The references to the "Casualty Department" mean the same thing. The term was changed from Casualty to A&E a long time ago but both terms are still used interchangeably. [...] >And the BBC has a report in archives concerning the causualty care >department staff shortages. From that report, I found this: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >what we call it! ;-) Attend???????? Gotta love the Brits with their >precision language!! ;-) What language would you use then? Tom >>> >> In article >>> >> <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-F055E8.14415119072005@news-rdr-03.socal. [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Tom We call it "sick bay". [cut] > >Americans would never think to attend an emergency "facility" no matter > >what we call it! ;-) Attend???????? Gotta love the Brits with their [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Tom Here? When I'm here, I speak Usenet. Webby >[cut] >> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Here? When I'm here, I speak Usenet. Idiot! No matter how many years pass, we who participate by posting to smd and/or asj-d will see visions of yesterday. Learning to get along together online in a way that would be substantially equivalent to a daily gathering in a conference seated at a round table (large enough for all) is not very realistic. There is a type of "distance" between us that is a long way from being eliminated as a source of trouble. A very, very good friend of mine who no longer posts here, shared these words with the group back before the turn of the century. They are as important and useful today as they were then. And he had participated here for four or five years when he wrote "...attented this Newsgroup for awhile...". Please see his words following the little question here concerning "language". > >[cut] > >> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Idiot! Giuseppe Stradaioli Aug 1999 Only after you have read and attended this Newsgroup for a while, you realize what communication problems actually are. As in real life, here too we find people who communicate exquisitely, and people who aren't exquisite at all. Of course, everything depends on the readers, and on the considerations we make at the beginning. Everybody has his/her own tastes; what is fine and good for me, may not correspond to what is fine fine and good for another reader. Anyway, in my opinion, in order to preserve communication it must be clearly said that all of us are not the same; the "good" ones are not like the "bad" ones and only because of these great differences some positive results can come into being. I was led to say that because sometimes I hear, or read, that someone "complains" about the presence of two members in this group: Webby and Chang; someone would even like "to eliminate" them. I would like to tell those people who have such wishes not hope against hope: if they "eliminate" Webby and Chang, thousand more will be borne, and more revengeful ! Perhaps, some advice may be given to those who dislike Webby and Chang; it's a piece of advice I received a few days ago, too : Why don't you go for a stroll to the zoo ! And I don't mean to take away anything from the animals, poor things, on the contrary I recognize a merit of them. Even though they are caged, they can make us think and stimulate us with their being different. It's something irreducible.... El Iatroepidemic Ragu :-( ~ __________ I miss the posts of El Ragu whose first language was not English. Webby >>With the "E.R." TV show reruns in the future, will they have to change >>the name to "ED?" Makes me think of a talking horse instead of a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >what it means really, it's just the name of the programme. We call >the hospital department A & E. Arts & Entertainment ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >I guess we call our "freeways" freeways even though some are toll >roads... something like that. And even though we have some roads >designated as "expressways" ... I have yet to figure out why ... so I >still call it a freeway and hope I'm not talking to a CalTrans engineer. >;-) Why do we park on the driveway... ...and drive on the parkway ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > >I guess we call our "freeways" freeways even though some are toll > >roads... something like that. And even though we have some roads [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Is your reply post meant to suggest (to me and maybe others) that we're again on "speaking terms"???? ....... ????? Webby Webby wrote: Hey Bill, do you have any sunshine at your place????? Gloom, gloom and a peek of blue but I think I see some shadows on the ground. Maybe spring is less than six weeks away and winter will not last much longer .... just joking (I know it's summer). Webby ;-) It was overcast and muggy for most of the day in San Diego. When I got up to Poway (much further inland) it eventually cleared up long enough for the temperature to rise to 90-something degrees -- the air conditioner kept turning on again and again, so that was a clue. At least the air conditioning at night is always free in San Diego (just open the windows). - dentaldoc >What does ED stand for. >Webby, I understand you to say not all surgery is elective. Just some. >After all, all surgery is not done on an emergency basis. Really ?!?! Just how did you come to that conclusion ? Have you never heard about a gun shot ? Stabbing ? >Or is this completely out of line as to the subject being discussed. >Or am I out of line. Would not be too surprised. >And no one can surpass me for being a whiner. It is what I do best. > >Gail -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE In article <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-00EE2F.14520516072005@news- rdr-02.socal.rr.com>, nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com says... > Taken from: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > necessary to maintain life or health (can often be scheduled days or > weeks in advance). So if it's not an emergency, then it's elective? Crap. > A great deal of surgery is "elective". > > Even heart bypass surgery can be elective, given the standard meaning in > the definition above. > > Webby Elective: Not really necessary AT ALL. Standard: Necessary, but not immediately so. Emergency: Immediately necessary to maintain life or health. > In article <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-00EE2F.14520516072005@news- > rdr-02.socal.rr.com>, nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com says... [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Emergency: Immediately necessary to maintain life or health. If you don't mind my asking, where did you get these definitions? Are you in the USA? It might make a difference. I am writing from the perspective of healthcare in the USA, if you may not have realized. Webby >> In article <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-00EE2F.14520516072005@news- >> rdr-02.socal.rr.com>, nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com says... [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >If you don't mind my asking, where did you get these definitions? Are >you in the USA? Why do you persist in asking such silly questions ? > It might make a difference. I am writing from the >perspective of healthcare in the USA, if you may not have realized. Makes no difference whatsoever. >Webby -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE > Elective: Not really necessary AT ALL. That has always been exactly my understanding of the term. Google's take: Definitions of elective surgery on the Web: a.. an operation the patient chooses to have done, which may not be essential to continuation of quality of life. www.southeastmissourihospital.com/health/ADULT/glossary/e.htm b.. *: Surgery that is subject to choice (election). The patient or doctor may make the choice. www.cwru.edu/med/epidbio/mphp439/Dictionary.htm c.. Elective surgery is undertaken to improve the outcome of treatment, rather than as a medical necessity eg the removal of certain lymph glands to reduce the risk of a cancer spreading. www.cancernorth.nhs.uk/text/glossary/glossary_e.asp Vaughn In article <HDiCe.431712$cg1.119152@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, > > Elective: Not really necessary AT ALL. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > www.cancernorth.nhs.uk/text/glossary/glossary_e.asp > Vaughn How many times have we had relatives say to us, "Uncle X needs surgery on his X." And some of us wonder "need????" What does that mean????? So we ask, "When is he going to have this done?" The reply is usually something like, "Well, they don't know yet. I'll let you know when they set a date." Elective? Yes/No? Webby It seems in this case, elective is referring to time, not procedure. Gail "The Webby" <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-9F02FF.18451116072005@news-rdr-02.socal. rr.com... > In article > <HDiCe.431712$cg1.119152@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Webby > It seems in this case, elective is referring to time, not procedure. > Gail Yes, the timing can be scheduled without jeopardizing the patient's life within a particular window of days, weeks or even months if need be. Webby > "The Webby" <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message > news:nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-9F02FF.18451116072005@news-rdr-02.socal. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > > > Webby Personally, I tend to think of "elective surgery" as surgery which the patient can choose NOT to have performed and not suffer any reduction in quality of life. The remaining surgery (to my point of view) is either emergency surgery (has to be performed right now to prevent loss of quality of life), urgent surgery (has to be performed rather soon, but not right away) and routine surgery (which can be post-poned for quite a while without compromising the quality of life). In relation to the OP and her proposed treatment plan,,,,,,, I suspect SB is trying to figure out if the OP's proposed surgery is "elective", "routine", "urgent" or "emergency". I have not had the privilege of an IRL examination, but would imagine the proposed treatment to be "elective" (as compared to what I think is the chief complaint). If the OP is satisfied with her occlusion and her appearance, then the surgery is not even "routine". Again,,,,,,, repositioning the jaws will not stop a person form clenching themselves into headaches, and may very well make the clenching much more intense--leading to worse pain. >> It seems in this case, elective is referring to time, not procedure. >> Gail [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >> > >> > Webby Good morning. Here are some terms as defined by Empire Blue Cross Blue Shield http://www.empireblue.com/index.shtml Definition of Terms http://www.empireblue.com/facility/facility_library/glossary.shtml#U Elective Surgery Surgery for a condition that is not considered an emergency. Emergency An emergency is a medical or behavioral condition of which the onset is sudden. It manifests itself by symptoms of such severity that a prudent lay person with an average knowledge of medicine and health could reasonably expect that the absence of immediate medical attention would result in: placing the health of the afflicted person in serious jeopardy; placing the health of an individual with a behavioral health condition or others in serious jeopardy; causing serious impairment of the individual's bodily functions; causing serious dysfunction of any bodily organ or part; causing serious disfigurement of the afflicted individual. Emergency Care Care for patients with severe or life-threatening conditions that require immediate intervention. Urgent Care Services received for an unexpected illness or injury that is not life threatening but requires immediate outpatient medical care that cannot be postponed. An urgent situation requires prompt medical attention to avoid complications and unnecessary suffering or sever pain, such as a high fever. ________________________________ Webby, SB > Personally, I tend to think of "elective surgery" as surgery which the > patient can choose NOT to have performed and not suffer any reduction in [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > >> > > >> > Webby >> It seems in this case, elective is referring to time, not procedure. >> Gail [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Webby That makes it necessary, but not elective. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE > >> It seems in this case, elective is referring to time, not procedure. > >> Gail [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Take out the G'RBAGE Let me ask you this, WB, using *me* as the example. My mandible was fused to the cranial fossa for a period of years. This caused a significant loss of quality of life and health. I *needed* to have the ankylosis removed (the condition was refractive to every procedure done and had become chronic) in order to improved quality of life including access to the dentition which was in need of long delayed necessary treatment. Was surgery necessary? Was surgery elective (did my surgeons and I have a choice)? How urgent was the surgery? What was the best surgical treatment for dense/complete TMJ ankylosis for between the years 1984 and 1992 in the USA? What is the best surgical treatment for the same condition today in 2005 in the USA? I've read all of your posted replies of today. Webby In article <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-1FD8D2.09563117072005@news-rdr-03.socal. rr.com>, [cut] > Let me ask you this, WB, using *me* as the example. > > My mandible was fused to the cranial fossa [sic] for a period of years. ...fused to the fossae. That's more than a spelling typo -- it was incorrect information. > This > caused a significant loss of quality of life and health. I *needed* to [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Webby Webby >> >Yes, the timing can be scheduled without jeopardizing the patient's life >> >within a particular window of days, weeks or even months if need be. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Was surgery necessary? Probable, but I wasn't there. >Was surgery elective (did my surgeons and I have a choice)? Doubtful, but I wasn't there. >How urgent was the surgery? Were you starving to death ? I wasn't there. >What was the best surgical treatment for dense/complete TMJ ankylosis >for between the years 1984 and 1992 in the USA? I don't know. >What is the best surgical treatment for the same condition today in 2005 >in the USA? I don't know. >I've read all of your posted replies of today. But did you understand any of them ? >Webby -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE [cut] > >How urgent was the surgery? > > Were you starving to death ? > I wasn't there. [cut] How do you define "starving to death"? Webby >[cut] >> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Webby Do you like apples ? Do you like apples !?! From WordNet (r) 2.0 : starvation n 1: a state of extreme hunger resulting from lack of essential nutrients over a prolonged period [syn: famishment] 2: the act of depriving of food or subjecting to famine; How do you like them apples ? -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE > >[cut] > >> > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Take out the G'RBAGE I think you are disappointing, W_B. That's what I think. TW >> >How do you define "starving to death"? >> > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >TW So sorry, I don't care what you, or anyone else, thinks. Opinions are just like a**holes; everybody got one, and they all stink. Have engaged in flame wars with better armed opponents than you. Typical for you to comment, and then run away. You cannot even back up your statements with any facts. It's all about 'feelings' and 'metaphysics' for you. Astrology is very different from Astronomy. Get with the program, sister. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE [cut] > Have engaged in flame wars with better armed opponents than you. [cut] I was not engaged in a flamewar but apparently you were. As I wrote before, Good Day. Webby The answer to W_B's question is: Yes. I was starving to death. Webby > >[cut] > >> > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Take out the G'RBAGE > >> It seems in this case, elective is referring to time, not procedure. > >> Gail [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Take out the G'RBAGE This issue can also be described like this: Necessary surgery Unnecessary surgery In between surgery Webby >> >> It seems in this case, elective is referring to time, not procedure. >> >> Gail [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >Webby NO ! Emergency Urgent Necessary Elective Don't keep pissing on me and then tell me "it's raining". -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE > >> >> It seems in this case, elective is referring to time, not procedure. > >> >> Gail [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Take out the G'RBAGE Well, you can take it up with the medical professor whose words those are ... they aren't mine, I just happen to be able to repeat the words with meaning. WB >> >This issue can also be described like this: >> > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> -- >> W_B >Well, you can take it up with the medical professor whose words those >are ... they aren't mine, I just happen to be able to repeat the words >with meaning. I don't care who the "medical professor" is ! If you continue to regurgitate inaccurate information, you are no better than the source. You owe it to yourself to enlighten, and educate your mind. Do not rely on the words of others, learn what words mean, and do not believe everything that you read. I take exception with you, since you are the one expectorating such drivel. Webby, you never take the blame for what you say. You always blame it on someone else. Webby: "I'm just repeating (vomiting) what someone else said" That's a piss-poor defense. Don't you have any original ideas of your own ? Recommend that you formulate at least one. Answer when you have a better argument, and don't forget to try to formulate *just one* original idea. Holding my breath... <not!> -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE [cut] > Don't you have any original ideas of your own ? > Recommend that you formulate at least one. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > W_B I think we've met in usenet before but I would could never be certain of just who it was. This is a disappointment to me, but I'll get over it. TW >[cut] > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >TW WTF are you talking about now ? -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE > >> It seems in this case, elective is referring to time, not procedure. > >> Gail [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Take out the G'RBAGE WB is talking "like a surgeon". Just because surgery can be done does not mean that it should be done. TW >> >> It seems in this case, elective is referring to time, not procedure. >> >> Gail [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >TW You have missed the point entirely. Are you a fan of 'Weird Al Yankovic' ? >just because surgery can be done does >not mean that it should be done. A good dental surgeon, such as myself, never performs unneccesary surgery, the potential sequelae is just too much of a risk. For both the patient and the surgeon. Had one of my new dogs neutered two months ago. Was that necessary ? Was that emergency ? Was that urgent ? Was that elective ? -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE It was prudent. Gail > Had one of my new dogs neutered two months ago. > Was that necessary ? > Was that emergency ? > Was that urgent ? > Was that elective ? I think the dog would disagree. >It was prudent. >Gail [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> Was that urgent ? >> Was that elective ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > I think the dog would disagree. I thought your dog was a Christian Scientist carabelli Though I rarely agree with you Gail, this time you have struck the nail directly on the head. >It seems in this case, elective is referring to time, not procedure. >Gail [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >> >> Webby -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE > Though I rarely agree with you Gail, this time you > have struck the nail directly on the head. Though you rarely agree with me, this is not the first time I have struck the nail on the head. A very elusive nail has been struck on the head with 100% accuracy . That it is not found or noted does not mean it is not in place. Gail What about this: If I am performing a routine extraction, and the tooth breaks, I might have to perform a non-elective surgical approach, to remove the remaining root(s) If I see a tooth to be extracted that looks difficult, I might perform an elective surgical approach. both are necessary surgical proceedures. bob >> Though I rarely agree with you Gail, this time you >> have struck the nail directly on the head. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > That it is not found or noted does not mean it is not in place. > Gail The issue begins with asking why the extraction is necessary. Webby > What about this: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > That it is not found or noted does not mean it is not in place. > > Gail >The issue begins with asking why the extraction is necessary. > >Webby Well, Ms. We-B Queen of BS... Reasons for extractions: Patient wants tooth extracted Tooth is non restorable Patient will not or cannot afford restoration. Tooth is infected. The list goes on.... -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE > >The issue begins with asking why the extraction is necessary. > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Take out the G'RBAGE Yes, the list does go on. Good day. Webby >> Reasons for extractions: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> The list goes on.... >> W_B >Yes, the list does go on. > >Good day. >Webby Typical of you We-B Run away when you have no more argument. Now I am the one that is disappointed, ...well, not really. -GFY -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >In article <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-00EE2F.14520516072005@news- >rdr-02.socal.rr.com>, nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com says... [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >Emergency: Immediately necessary to maintain life or health. My point exactly. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE |
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