Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / July 2005

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Dentists: What would you do?

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
NOYB - 05 Jul 2005 18:11 GMT
A patient asked to read his chart while his wife was in the chair getting
her teeth cleaned.  My dim-witted assistant handed it to him.

Under HIPAA, he's entitled to copies, but only after he's made a request in
writing.  She handed him the original and is reading it right now.

Would any of you hand the chart to a patient prior to first reviewing it and
making copies?  Would you fire your assistant for doing so without getting
authorization from you?
Dr Steve - 05 Jul 2005 18:23 GMT
I would not sweat it in the least bit.

I keep my notes on the PC screen in front of the patient.  They can read any
of it at any time by just looking up.  Everything is written as if the
patient is looking over my shoulder.  No secrets.

Just tell the patient that your DA goofed and should have had him sign a
request to see the record first, and have him sign it now.  You should have
forms already printed in the office ready to use.  I keep mine on the
hard-drive and print them when needed, or display them on a PC screen and
have the patient sign a capture pad.

What in the world could you possibly be afraid of the patient reading?

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S.
Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>A patient asked to read his chart while his wife was in the chair getting
>her teeth cleaned.  My dim-witted assistant handed it to him.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> and making copies?  Would you fire your assistant for doing so without
> getting authorization from you?
NOYB - 05 Jul 2005 18:38 GMT
>I would not sweat it in the least bit.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> What in the world could you possibly be afraid of the patient reading?

Actually, nothing.  I just got the chart back to review it, and saw nothing
in there that I might need to "clarify" further with the patient.

It's just that this particular patient has been a PITA who I referred out to
a prosthodontist a year ago.  He's a type-A (and beyond) personality.  He
refused treatment at the prosth, and still sees me for cleanings and an
occasional patch job.  At his last cleaning appointment, my usual hygienist
was sick.  We called him and told him we had a temp hygienist in, and would
that be OK.  He said sure.  He got here, saw it was a male hygienist, and he
mumbled something and left. I was afraid that the hygienist may have written
something that I didn't have  a chance to look at first.
Dr Steve - 05 Jul 2005 20:08 GMT
I guess that is a big advantage to digital records.  At the end of the day,
I run a report showing me everything written in any patient record by any
staff person.  After reviewing them, I give the receptionist permission to
close out the day and "lock" those records.  Prior to "locking" the records,
we can edit the notes as much as we want without leaving an obvious trail.
Once the end-of-day reports are run, those records can still be edited, but
the original notation only gets a line through it, the edited text is
printed above the original one. so anyone can still read what was altered,
when and why.  You, also, give rights to staff persons.  You can limit what
each staff person can see, what data they can enter, and what they can edit.
Makes life very easy.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S.
Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
>>I would not sweat it in the least bit.
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> hygienist may have written something that I didn't have  a chance to look
> at first.
clintonz@prodigy.net - 12 Jul 2005 05:43 GMT
> I guess that is a big advantage to digital records.  At the end of the day,
> I run a report showing me everything written in any patient record by any
> staff person.  After reviewing them, I give the receptionist permission to
> close out the day and "lock" those records.  Prior to "locking" the records,
> we can edit the notes as much as we want without leaving an obvious trail.

Wait a minute, is that legal to modify patient records?

> Once the end-of-day reports are run, those records can still be edited, but
> the original notation only gets a line through it, the edited text is
> printed above the original one. so anyone can still read what was altered,
> when and why.

I would imagine that any form of digital records could be modified
if the dentist was determined enough. That's very strange
that that regulations don't reqiure a printed signed copy or
something.

You, also, give rights to staff persons.  You can limit what
> each staff person can see, what data they can enter, and what they can edit.
> Makes life very easy.

until the staff person hacks into your digital files and steals
all the patients personal information. You may want to install
a security camera near the computer screen just to make sure.
Steven Fawks - 12 Jul 2005 14:12 GMT
The dentist is not 'modifying' records on the day of service, he is
creating them.  Reviewing the days notations simply allows them to
be checked for accuracy and omissions.  "Hmmm...that DO on Mrs. Smith
was on #13, not #3"  "Jimmy had a negative response to nitrous"  "The
decay was very close to the pulp", etc.

Fawks

 After reviewing them, I give the receptionist permission to
>>close out the day and "lock" those records.  Prior to "locking" the records,
>>we can edit the notes as much as we want without leaving an obvious trail.
>
> Wait a minute, is that legal to modify patient records?
Tony Bad - 13 Jul 2005 14:25 GMT
> The dentist is not 'modifying' records on the day of service, he is
> creating them.  Reviewing the days notations simply allows them to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Fawks

It is modifying them in my book. You point to contructive and perhaps
appropriate reasons the notes can be altered or modified, but I am sure that
there are less virtuous uses of the editing ability. When a notation is
written in the old manner, there is a record if that was subsequently
altered, even if it was the same day...not so with digitized records. The
ability to review and then lock gives the dentist an opportunity to change
things that isn't there when records are being handwritten. I realize the
records are eventually "locked", but even that brief window prior to locking
leaves an opportunity for the truth to be altered. If there was involved in
a situation where someone committed an act of malpractice, I'd think it
likely that window of opportunity prior to locking could involve some major
CYA editing.

I am not implying that anyone using digital records would do this, but the
opportunity is there for the less honest in our profession.

T

>   After reviewing them, I give the receptionist permission to
> >>close out the day and "lock" those records.  Prior to "locking" the records,
> >>we can edit the notes as much as we want without leaving an obvious trail.
> >
> > Wait a minute, is that legal to modify patient records?
NOYB - 13 Jul 2005 15:15 GMT
>> The dentist is not 'modifying' records on the day of service, he is
>> creating them.  Reviewing the days notations simply allows them to
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> T

I write up all of my charts at the end of the day, or early the next
morning.  Many times I'll have the assistant jot down notes on a sticky
(shade of restoration, working length for endo, heart raced from epi, etc),
and then I transfer those notes to the chart later on.  How is modifying
electronic notes at the end of the day any different?
Tony Bad - 13 Jul 2005 16:16 GMT
> I write up all of my charts at the end of the day, or early the next
> morning.  Many times I'll have the assistant jot down notes on a sticky
> (shade of restoration, working length for endo, heart raced from epi, etc),
> and then I transfer those notes to the chart later on.  How is modifying
> electronic notes at the end of the day any different?

I guess if you do it the way you do, it isn't...but what the original
description said was that notes were being entered and then reviewed and
edited before being finalized or locked. That would be the rough equal to
someone hand writing notes in pencil as they go and then erasing what they
wrote or somehow editing it in another manner. I was under the impression
that any edits should be clearly marked as such.

While someone wrote a very benign example of a wrong tooth # having been
entered and later corrected, one could just as easily change the number of
carpules of anesthetic given if a patient was later found to have had an
adverse reaction. I am certainly not condemning the use or users of
electronic records, I just feel they leave the window of opportunity for
inappropriate records altering a bit more open then older methods.

T
NOYB - 13 Jul 2005 17:13 GMT
>> I write up all of my charts at the end of the day, or early the next
>> morning.  Many times I'll have the assistant jot down notes on a sticky
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> carpules of anesthetic given if a patient was later found to have had an
> adverse reaction.

If they're going to have an adverse reaction to the anesthetic given,
they're usually going to have that reaction in the chair.  I suppose that if
a guy was unethical he could write down any number of carpules that he
wanted at that point.

If you administer 3 carpules over a 2 hour appointment (not all at once), do
you write "1 carpule" each time you administer 1 carpule? Or do you write "3
carpules" at the end of the appointment?  I write "admin 3 carpules".
W_B - 13 Jul 2005 17:29 GMT
>If you administer 3 carpules over a 2 hour appointment (not all at once), do
>you write "1 carpule" each time you administer 1 carpule? Or do you write "3
>carpules" at the end of the appointment?  I write "admin 3 carpules".

I write:

Zor X 2, Mar X 1
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
NOYB - 14 Jul 2005 03:52 GMT
>>If you administer 3 carpules over a 2 hour appointment (not all at once),
>>do
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Zor X 2, Mar X 1

You're using Zorcaine now?  I was wrong when I said "Made in the USA".
It's made in Canada for Kodak...but at least that's better than made in
France (Septocaine).
W_B - 14 Jul 2005 15:41 GMT
>>>If you administer 3 carpules over a 2 hour appointment (not all at once),
>>>do
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>It's made in Canada for Kodak...but at least that's better than made in
>France (Septocaine).

Yep, I switched to Zorcaine, no difference in efficacy noted.
You are correct, better than what the frogs make.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dr Steve - 14 Jul 2005 13:10 GMT
I have macros which input the information for me in full detail.  2-3 mouse
clicks gets the mg of anesthetic plus the mg of vasoconstrictor entered in a
precise and easily read fashion.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S.
Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
>>If you administer 3 carpules over a 2 hour appointment (not all at once),
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Take out the G'RBAGE
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Tony Bad - 13 Jul 2005 17:52 GMT
> If they're going to have an adverse reaction to the anesthetic given,
> they're usually going to have that reaction in the chair.  I suppose that if
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> you write "1 carpule" each time you administer 1 carpule? Or do you write "3
> carpules" at the end of the appointment?  I write "admin 3 carpules".

Okay, maybe my example was a poor one, but I think you get my point. If one
has a chance to re-write history, or write about it sometime after the fact,
there is a window of opportunity to present things differently. Once again,
this is not an issue when one is honest and ethical, but I can easily
envision situations where a dentist can use this extra chance to edit or
re-write things to change the course of history.

T
The Webby - 13 Jul 2005 18:07 GMT
> > If they're going to have an adverse reaction to the anesthetic given,
> > they're usually going to have that reaction in the chair.  I suppose that
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> T

I've been watching this thread and binding my fingers to keep from
adding comment.  

TW
Steven Fawks - 13 Jul 2005 20:08 GMT
Why stifle yourself?

IMO, crooks will be crooks, and honest people will be honest people
regardless of whether a chart is paper or computerized.

Fawks

> I've been watching this thread and binding my fingers to keep from
> adding comment.  
>
> TW
The Webby - 13 Jul 2005 20:12 GMT
> Why stifle yourself?
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> >
> > TW

Not only do I agree ... but I have been through a personal living
example that paper charts can be "altered/modified" and extra copies can
be created ... and on and on.

You're right, Fawks... absolutely.  There is plenty that could be
discussed about this particular topic.

TW
Dr Steve - 14 Jul 2005 13:14 GMT
I cannot come in to work the next day, and remove a few pages from the chart
and insert newly written ones.  In a court, my data can be verified by any
IT specialist that the data has not been altered after the end-of-day.
Paper records require expensive and time consuming testing of ink and paper
samples to verify approximate time of note creation.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S.
Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
>> Why stifle yourself?
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> TW
Tony Bad - 14 Jul 2005 15:09 GMT
> I cannot come in to work the next day, and remove a few pages from the chart
> and insert newly written ones.  In a court, my data can be verified by any
> IT specialist that the data has not been altered after the end-of-day.
> Paper records require expensive and time consuming testing of ink and paper
> samples to verify approximate time of note creation.

I have done quite a bit of work with a old high school classmate who is now
an attorney with a firm that defends dentists in malpractice cases ( a good
guy!). While your comments might be true if a case reaches the point where
experts are called in to analyze data, I have yet to see one where it has
reached that level. Usually the records are taken at face value. If a
handwritten record has erase marks, cross outs, or additions in the margins,
these are readily evident to anyone looking, while something edited on a
computer will be nice and clean and leave no traces of the alterations.

I have seen is a TON of sloppy record keeping and often that, more than
inappropriate care, is what sinks dentists in these kinds of cases. I have
reviewed 100's of records from other offices helping the attorneys assess
any problems the records might present and I can assure you that in many of
these cases if the dentist had a chance to go back and edit his records a
day, a week, or even a month (as some systems allow) later, their legal case
would have been much stronger. Some may see this as good for dentistry, and
while I certainly see a potential up side, I also see it as a way for
someone to cover an a.s that may not deserve covering.

I see your point that someone can remove pages from a paper record and write
up new ones, but it is a lot easier to hit backspace and delete a few times.
It also seems to me that for whatever reason people perceive things
differently in the computer world. I know many people who freely download
music from the internet (and not through the pay sites!), knowing they are
violating the law, yet they would never walk into a store and slip a CD with
that music into their pocket because that would be stealing!

We all have powers that can be used for good or evil, and just because some
choose evil, we shouldn't take those powers away from everyone. There are
many benefits to electronic records so please don't think I am being
critical of those who keep electronic records or of digital record systems
in general...I am just making discussion, so don't take any personal
offense.

T
clintonz@prodigy.net - 14 Jul 2005 16:32 GMT
> > I cannot come in to work the next day, and remove a few pages from the
> chart
> > and insert newly written ones.  In a court, my data can be verified by any
> > IT specialist that the data has not been altered after the end-of-day.

I'm sure someone could easily write software for dentists which
would alter digital records within supposedly secure software.

> I have done quite a bit of work with a old high school classmate who is now
> I have seen is a TON of sloppy record keeping and often that, more than
> inappropriate care, is what sinks dentists in these kinds of cases. I have
> reviewed 100's of records from other offices helping the attorneys assess
> any problems the records might present and I can assure you that

One technique to keep records is to claim them as part of your diary.

Dear diary, did 2 root canals today
Dear diary, had a slight mishap on #2 today...

in many of
> these cases if the dentist had a chance to go back and edit his records a
> day, a week, or even a month (as some systems allow) later, their legal case
> would have been much stronger. Some may see this as good for

Easiest is to just completely remove the entire record.
The Webby - 14 Jul 2005 16:54 GMT
> > I cannot come in to work the next day, and remove a few pages from the
> chart
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> T

Over the years that I was involved in a *medical-dental* malpractice
lawsuit as the plaintiff, I was deeply aware of every single word
written into every single record that was brought into evidence.  I
worked very closely with my attorney and in many ways I was more an
assistant to him than just a client.  There were, IIRC, some 26 doctors
involved in my care, many hospitals admissions, countless radiology
reports, and many other aspects to the case that allow me to be in a
position to understand exactly what Tony, T, wishes to convey to readers.

As I wrote, this subject happens to be something that I find extremely
interesting for various reasons.  

TW
Tony Bad - 14 Jul 2005 19:10 GMT
"The Webby" <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message
news:nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-

> Over the years that I was involved in a *medical-dental* malpractice
> lawsuit as the plaintiff, I was deeply aware of every single word
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> TW

As I said, I have been in a position to review the records of many other
dental offices. That alone is an eye-opening experience, but doing so has
taught me that while most dentist's are ethical and honest, there are some
who will use technology for evil. The same can be said of many advances in
dental technology. I recall a discussion of the diagnodent a while back.
Such an instrument can be a valuable tool in the diagnostic process, but can
also be used to sell care of marginal necessity. We can't stand still and
shy away from technology because a few use it to cheat, but the cheaters do
put us in a ethical pickle don't they?

T
Dr Steve - 14 Jul 2005 19:17 GMT
If a pen and paper guy wanted to cheat, he could save a few sheets of paper
from every purchase of paper and label the paper for year of purchase.  Same
thing for a set of pens.  Then, if he wanted to alter records, he could
simply use pen and paper from the right years for the pages he wanted to
alter.  A good handwriting analyst *might* be able to tell the notes are
recent, but the ink marker and paper markers would all be appropriate for
the year they were trying to forge.  Remember that ink all contain markers
used to "date" the written word.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S.
Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
> "The Webby" <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> T
The Webby - 14 Jul 2005 21:08 GMT
> "The Webby" <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> T

They sure do.  And I will say that again, "they sure do".

TW
Dr Steve - 14 Jul 2005 17:56 GMT
Any changes after the endo-of-day are more evident than a paper record.  It
actually prints a line next to each entry telling the reader if the entry
has been altered or not.

A lot of the sloppy record keeping goes away when the office goes digital.
The sloppiness is generally a result of not taking the time to do it neatly.
With a digital record, all the routine stuff is entered with 2-3 mouse
clicks.  It only takes seconds to have precise, detailed notes which anyone
can read.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S.
Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
>> I cannot come in to work the next day, and remove a few pages from the
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
>
> T
Dr Steve - 14 Jul 2005 13:11 GMT
What has happened to you that you see editing spelling mistakes, tooth
numbers, missing comments, etc. at the end of the day the care was given on,
as a problem?

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S.
Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
>> If they're going to have an adverse reaction to the anesthetic given,
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> T
Tony Bad - 14 Jul 2005 14:42 GMT
> What has happened to you that you see editing spelling mistakes, tooth
> numbers, missing comments, etc. at the end of the day the care was given on,
> as a problem?

Perhaps my writing ability is not what I thought it was, but I think I wrote
several times those are not the kind of edits I was taking issue with. Just
to make it clear once again, I don't have an issue with one using the
editing function in a digital record keeping system to "editing spelling
mistakes, tooth numbers, missing comments, etc", but see the ability to edit
notes without any trace of editing being made as having some potential
downside.

I know you are a proponent of electronic record keeping, and I really don't
have a big issue with such systems...I was just making a point in reply to
another point that stated editing records isn't modifying them. To me,
anything that changes a record once it is created is "modifying" that
record. It may be a totally benign reason for the edit, like the ones you
describe, but it is different. That said, I am kind of insulted that you
feel the need to portray me as some kind of nut who takes issue with
spelling corrections in order to defend your positions on such record
keeping systems...or maybe you just left out the <VBG> or smiley face?

T
Dr Steve - 14 Jul 2005 18:23 GMT
Tony,

The worst I would ever do is give you a friendly punch in the arm.  I would
love to buy you lunch any day.

But, an argument can still be fruitful.  Just harder over the internet.

Let's get on the same page.  You take issue with changing records with out
leaving an obvious trail of the original entry and what it was changed to,
when, and by whom.  I say that my software does that.  Dentrix and Kodak do
not.  That is one of my biggest arguments when someone tells me they are
buying new software.  I am continually amazed when other dentists don't see
the importance of this issue.

You can also, submit a copy of your records to the software vendor who
should then verify for the court the validity of all notes.

We are in agreement, aren't we????

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S.
Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
>> What has happened to you that you see editing spelling mistakes, tooth
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> T
Tony Bad - 14 Jul 2005 19:04 GMT
> We are in agreement, aren't we????

I think we are! Your system sounds like a better one than most.

T
Dr Steve - 14 Jul 2005 13:09 GMT
Think of it as writing the notes out on a loose sheet of paper until the end
of the day, then handing them to your administrative assistant to type out
and you sign them.

Good digital records are preferred in a court-house to hand-written ones.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S.
Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
>> I write up all of my charts at the end of the day, or early the next
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> T
Dr Steve - 14 Jul 2005 13:07 GMT
Many offices do not write the notes for the day until the last patient has
been seen.  That is not much different.  ES software locks the notes at the
end of each day.  So you have until you go home to check for missing
notations, proper tooth numbers and surfaces, spelling errors (not very
common with spell checker), etc.  Other software packages lock the notes at
the end of the month (on not at all).  To me, that is the big problem.  If a
procedure goes badly, it often takes 20 minutes to write up all the notes
related to why you did not get the best result.  If I use a pen and paper, I
take a long time and start abbreviating, and skipping words.  By the end of
the note, I am lucky if I can read it myself.  If I type the notes, I am
done in a few minutes, no abbreviations, spell checker was used, and anyone
can read it.  Generally, for a case which could go to court, you realize
this weeks to months later as the patient becomes upset.  I personally would
not want to go to court with records which the court knows I could have
altered for 30 days (assuming the incident was early in the month) without
leaving any trail.

Once the records are locked, I can edit it, but the original note gets a
line through it and is always displayed.  Any printed copies of the notes or
pdf file saved to disc plainly says what was altered, when  and by whom.

>> The dentist is not 'modifying' records on the day of service, he is
>> creating them.  Reviewing the days notations simply allows them to
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>> >
>> > Wait a minute, is that legal to modify patient records?
clintonz@prodigy.net - 14 Jul 2005 16:17 GMT
realize
> this weeks to months later as the patient becomes upset.  I personally would
> not want to go to court with records which the court knows I could have
> altered for 30 days (assuming the incident was early in the month) without
> leaving any trail.

Actually the way drives work, normally when you delete a file
it is not really deleted but the marker which points to the
data on a particular area with the file on the disk is changed.
The original data remains until it is written over at some
random time in the future.
That is why in one well known case they could take the computer of a
suspect (Oliver North)  and with a team of experts recreate the
original files in a couple weeks. To truly delete files a software
program probably has to completely rearrange or scramble all the data
on the drive, so if someone really wanted to see the original notation
they probably could.
Tony Bad - 05 Jul 2005 18:23 GMT
> A patient asked to read his chart while his wife was in the chair getting
> her teeth cleaned.  My dim-witted assistant handed it to him.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> making copies?  Would you fire your assistant for doing so without getting
> authorization from you?

I wouldn't mind giving to a patient, but only because I learned thru the
experiences of a colleague to never write anything I wouldn't mind patient
reading in a chart. Friend used to make comments about patient's
attitude...not a big editorial, but just things like patient seemed
irritated or annoyed. No one likes reading that about themselves.

T
NOYB - 05 Jul 2005 18:39 GMT
>> A patient asked to read his chart while his wife was in the chair getting
>> her teeth cleaned.  My dim-witted assistant handed it to him.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> attitude...not a big editorial, but just things like patient seemed
> irritated or annoyed. No one likes reading that about themselves.

I follow that same rule, too, Tony.  But read my response to Dr. Steve, and
you'll understand that I was concerned about what the temp hygienist may
have written.
Tony Bad - 05 Jul 2005 18:54 GMT
> I follow that same rule, too, Tony.  But read my response to Dr. Steve, and
> you'll understand that I was concerned about what the temp hygienist may
> have written.

That is always a BIG concern. I have seen notes written in charts by front
desk or assistants that could easily get someone in hot water if the wrong
person read them. It is tough to impress that on people...especially ones
who are there for a day or two.

T
clintonz@prodigy.net - 12 Jul 2005 05:53 GMT
> I wouldn't mind giving to a patient, but only because I learned thru the
> experiences of a colleague to never write anything I wouldn't mind patient
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> T

They had a story on the news about people who had anethesia
during surgery but it didn't completely take. Apparently some patiens
could hear what the surgeons and assistants would say about
them. Many heard comments about body part sizes, their weight
and so on. One lady was even so traumatized, they reported that
she was emotionally scarred for life.
Steven Fawks - 12 Jul 2005 13:59 GMT
I'm not saying that these stories are all bunk, but the power
of 'dreams' can make many people unsure about what really
transpired.

Just with nitrous it is possible for patients to believe some
strange stuff goes on that is nothing close to the truth.

Fawks

> They had a story on the news about people who had anethesia
> during surgery but it didn't completely take. Apparently some patiens
> could hear what the surgeons and assistants would say about
> them. Many heard comments about body part sizes, their weight
> and so on. One lady was even so traumatized, they reported that
> she was emotionally scarred for life.
Stormin Mormon - 09 Jul 2005 15:10 GMT
How'd it work out? I bet he handed back the chart, and everything worked out
OK.

Please don't execute the assistant for being friendly. She could be your
office's greatest PR asset.

Signature

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
    www.lds.org
    www.mormons.com

A patient asked to read his chart while his wife was in the chair getting
her teeth cleaned.  My dim-witted assistant handed it to him.

Under HIPAA, he's entitled to copies, but only after he's made a request in
writing.  She handed him the original and is reading it right now.

Would any of you hand the chart to a patient prior to first reviewing it and
making copies?  Would you fire your assistant for doing so without getting
authorization from you?
NOYB - 11 Jul 2005 15:51 GMT
> How'd it work out? I bet he handed back the chart, and everything worked
> out
> OK.
>
> Please don't execute the assistant for being friendly. She could be your
> office's greatest PR asset.

He handed the chart back and everything was fine...as you stated.

The assistant is now fully aware of the office policy.  I made her re-read
the HIPAA forms she hands out to each patient...and it states our office
policy that says that any requests to review the chart must be made in
writing...and that copies will be made for the patient to review.

I will also let patients review the original chart *in my presence*...but no
more handing original charts to patients sitting in the reception area.
Stormin Mormon - 12 Jul 2005 02:50 GMT
Very wise and temperate handling of the situation. I'm pleased things are
resolved in your office.

Signature

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
    www.lds.org
    www.mormons.com

> How'd it work out? I bet he handed back the chart, and everything worked
> out
> OK.
>
> Please don't execute the assistant for being friendly. She could be your
> office's greatest PR asset.

He handed the chart back and everything was fine...as you stated.

The assistant is now fully aware of the office policy.  I made her re-read
the HIPAA forms she hands out to each patient...and it states our office
policy that says that any requests to review the chart must be made in
writing...and that copies will be made for the patient to review.

I will also let patients review the original chart *in my presence*...but no
more handing original charts to patients sitting in the reception area.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.