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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / July 2005

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Why is Dentistry not Medicine when it comes to $$$$?

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stephanieplum@iloveagoodbook.com - 26 Jun 2005 07:42 GMT
Preface: I am Australian. My teeth need help. They make me sick.

Anyway, I'm seeing an oral maxo faxo guy who is going to apparently,
restore me to full health. None of his fees are covered under
Australian Medicare. The anaesthetists  fees are covered (to a
degree). I'm paying most of the 3 grand and will be glad to pay.

But what about the others who cannot pay or cannot get approved for
credit to pay? They are not covered by any Guv'mint dental plan,
because they are on low incomes (just not low enough to qualify for
any financial help).

When do one's teeth become "medical" and thus covered under one's
private paid health insurance or one's country's medical system? Is it
when the bone in one's jaw becomes infected and "soupy" as I've read
(ugh - that is SCARY!)? Or when the infection from a cracked wisdom
tooth root (not seen on an x-ray or ct) gives one brain damage  - btw
can that happen? or near death from infection?

I saw an acquaintance of mine (in January this year) WAIT until he was
mad with infection to go to hospital as an emergency case to get
dental care. He was/is a labourer (manual work). He lost most of his
back teeth. At least he can work now. If he had gone to the
dentist/oral maxo faxo when he ought to have gone, he would owe
thousands now and still have no teeth in his head (they were very,
very ickky and bad I wish I had a pic for you dental sorts.)

It gives me the irrits that teeth are seen to be different to the rest
of the body.  They are in our HEADS for pete's sake. They are
surrounded by mucous and in the germiest part of the body. Why are
they not "medical". They oughta be. What if the world over, we were
told that genitals were not considered medical because we used them
for "other stuff".

Teeth are in contact with jaw bones are they not? They can poke into
our sinus can they not? Bad teeth can kill us - YES? My maxo faxo
guy's office manager told me it was this way because *everyone* has
teeth and *everyone* would want help with their teeth given the
chance. Well DOH! Everyone has genitals and toenails and lungs. If
health insurance and Medical plans and Australian health care covered
people's oral care properly imagine how healthy people could be!

Disclaimer: I come from a family of chalky teeth (whatever that means,
to me, it means I can't drink a good Red without mega staining) and
have managed to keep all of them except two (a wisdom and a molar -
both from the same spot)  for 38 years. I say goodbye to 3 of the
wisdoms in two weeks and I'm thrilled.

Say goodbye to my impacted wisdoms and even the fully erupted but non
functional wisdom (it sticks out at an almost 90 degree angle)
everyone ;)

Stephie (in Australia)
NOYB - 26 Jun 2005 13:22 GMT
I feel that all extractions of infected teeth, and biopsies ought to be
"covered" under medical care.  Unfortunately, that's not the case here
either.

> Preface: I am Australian. My teeth need help. They make me sick.
>
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
>
> Stephie (in Australia)
Dr. Steve - 26 Jun 2005 17:12 GMT
>Preface: I am Australian. My teeth need help. They make me sick.
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>because they are on low incomes (just not low enough to qualify for
>any financial help).

Have you tried calling your elected officials and telling them you
would gladly pay a few thousand dollars a year in higher taxes so this
idea could be funded?
..
Stephen
Troy, Michigan, USA

I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting.
stephanieplum@iloveagoodbook.com - 27 Jun 2005 08:10 GMT
>Have you tried calling your elected officials and telling them you
>would gladly pay a few thousand dollars a year in higher taxes so this
>idea could be funded?

Actually, I haven't, but my husband has. He has written letters and
emails to quite a few ministers in the Govt. and their shadow
ministers.
Dr Steve - 27 Jun 2005 13:39 GMT
Keep at it as that is the only way to get the change you want.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S.
Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
>>Have you tried calling your elected officials and telling them you
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> emails to quite a few ministers in the Govt. and their shadow
> ministers.
W_B - 27 Jun 2005 15:57 GMT
>>Have you tried calling your elected officials and telling them you
>>would gladly pay a few thousand dollars a year in higher taxes so this
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>emails to quite a few ministers in the Govt. and their shadow
>ministers.

Write directly to "The Shadow" gov'mint.

--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dr Steve - 27 Jun 2005 17:03 GMT
Stephanie Plum,

How much more in taxes would you be willing to pay yourself to get this
level of care for the general population?

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S.
Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>>>Have you tried calling your elected officials and telling them you
>>>would gladly pay a few thousand dollars a year in higher taxes so this
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>emails to quite a few ministers in the Govt. and their shadow
>>ministers.
stephanieplum@iloveagoodbook.com - 28 Jun 2005 11:23 GMT
>Stephanie Plum,
>
>How much more in taxes would you be willing to pay yourself to get this
>level of care for the general population?

Well, you asked the question. How 'bout you answer it first?

Stephie ;)
Dr Steve - 28 Jun 2005 12:40 GMT
I am not the one complaining about lack of public access to care.
Personally, I do not support the concept of public assistance.  However,
since you obviously do support it, how much more are you willing to pay out
of your own pocket every year to support such a plan.

You do recognize that better public assistance has to be paid for out of
higher tax dollars?

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S.
Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
>>Stephanie Plum,
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Stephie ;)
carabelli - 28 Jun 2005 12:49 GMT
> I am not the one complaining about lack of public access to care.
> Personally, I do not support the concept of public assistance.  However,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> You do recognize that better public assistance has to be paid for out of
> higher tax dollars?

Or when politicians dodge the issue, deficit spend to fund it, and increase
the money supply.  Then you have the most regressive stealth tax around,
inflation.  And guess who ends up getting hit the hardest with it?

carabelli
xyzer@hotmail.com - 04 Jul 2005 19:58 GMT
> > I am not the one complaining about lack of public access to care.
> > Personally, I do not support the concept of public assistance.  However,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> carabelli

Yes, but if we expect the money supply's rate of growth to be
increased, then it's not a problem.  Really, the issue here is not
deficit spending but money printing acceleration period.  That can
happen regardless of whether we have deficit spending.
xyzer@hotmail.com - 04 Jul 2005 20:07 GMT
x...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > I am not the one complaining about lack of public access to care.
> > > Personally, I do not support the concept of public assistance.  However,
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> deficit spending but money printing acceleration period.  That can
> happen regardless of whether we have deficit spending.

Actually, in theory, inflation isn't a macro problem at all... a
zero-sum game, but then again, in the real world, some people are
better able to keep up with expectations than others.  ... getting
their money in the banks, etc., if they make any money...
Matt - 30 Jun 2005 07:07 GMT
> You do recognize that better public assistance has to be paid for out of
> higher tax dollars?

The thing is: it's not better.
stephanieplum@iloveagoodbook.com - 30 Jun 2005 08:49 GMT
>I am not the one complaining about lack of public access to care.
>Personally, I do not support the concept of public assistance.  However,
>since you obviously do support it, how much more are you willing to pay out
>of your own pocket every year to support such a plan.

Steve I think you are being too simplistic here.

Do you not agree that when a person's teeth make them SICK then their
TEETH become a medical problem? If a country has a tax funded medical
system then why are teeth so darn special? Why not toenoails and
fingernails instead of teeth? If my toenail was infected tomorrow and
made me sick my Dr would treat it and I would pay her. Later my
government health care system would refund me some of the money I paid
to my Dr. But if my tooth became infected tomorrow and made me sick I
would have to pay for every cent. Why are teeth so darn special?

>You do recognize that better public assistance has to be paid for out of
>higher tax dollars?

No, really! I thought the Govt could just pull more money out of their
backsides.

With the problems my country is having with access to proper dental
care I am fairly confident that if govt. subsidised dental care was
available for all (like it is with medical care) then it would be
supported.

There are people walking around with mouths full of infection and
sickness that cannot get treated. Yet, I was in a hospital ENT clinic
the other day and saw people (who were not deathly ill) get slotted
for Govt. funded surgery on their ears the next day. If we were to
compare the level of infection between some of these ear patients and
some of the rotten mouth patients there is *no doubt* that the rotten
mouth patients would be sicker - but they have to pay up or stay sick.
Or wait until they fall down and go to hospital in an ambulance and
*then* they can get govt subsidsed care for their teeth
W_B - 30 Jun 2005 15:33 GMT
>Why are teeth so darn special?

Because they are wonderful, beautiful, and complex structures.

>>You do recognize that better public assistance has to be paid for out of
>>higher tax dollars?
>
>No, really! I thought the Govt could just pull more money out of their
>backsides.

Like your arguments.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dr Steve - 30 Jun 2005 18:41 GMT
Well then, how more are you willing to pay in taxes every week to help fund
this idea?  Greater coverage means greater expenses.  It has to be made up
somewhere.  How much more are you willing to pay?

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S.
Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
>>I am not the one complaining about lack of public access to care.
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> Or wait until they fall down and go to hospital in an ambulance and
> *then* they can get govt subsidsed care for their teeth
W_B - 30 Jun 2005 20:23 GMT
Plum is not willing to pony up her own dough for treatment.

She just wants it to be free to her;  

as one wise man said:
"good at spending other people's money"  (IIRC)

>Well then, how more are you willing to pay in taxes every week to help fund
>this idea?  Greater coverage means greater expenses.  It has to be made up
>somewhere.  How much more are you willing to pay?

><stephanieplum@iloveagoodbook.com> wrote in message

>> Or wait until they fall down and go to hospital in an ambulance and
>> *then* they can get govt subsidsed care for their teeth

--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
carabelli - 01 Jul 2005 01:40 GMT
> Plum is not willing to pony up her own dough for treatment.
>
> She just wants it to be free to her;
>
> as one wise man said:
> "good at spending other people's money"  (IIRC)

bummer, didn't realise I had quoted a wise man

carabelli
ares - 04 Jul 2005 16:40 GMT
I thought she was ponying up her own dough but was wondering what others did
in her situation who couldn't afford it.  I've heard dentists complain that
tooth problems weren't considered medical too.  She's in Austrailia where I
thought much of their medicine is socialized anyway, or am I thinking of
Britain?  I had my wisdom tooth extraction covered on my medical insurance;
was in a hospital and I was lucky I didn't need my jaw wired together with
that big cyst it had.
ares

> > Plum is not willing to pony up her own dough for treatment.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> carabelli
xyzer@hotmail.com - 04 Jul 2005 19:41 GMT
> I am not the one complaining about lack of public access to care.
> Personally, I do not support the concept of public assistance.  However,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> You do recognize that better public assistance has to be paid for out of
> higher tax dollars?

That's true of every single public benefit though, e.g., roads, etc.
Roads, like dental work, also benefits some people more than others.

Actually, though, since our government borrows at such a low interest
rate (that's what happens when you threaten people with jail if they
don't pay their taxes...makes your debt less risky, since everybody
knows something WILL be paid), it (probably wisely) has a good deal of
debt.  So, while eventually it's true that for greater services there
will have to be greater taxes, it's not true that that means there will
necessarily have to be higher taxes TODAY.  100 years from now, barring
worldwide nuclear disaster, people will be much richer than they are
today as technology and other phenomena spur economic growth much has
it has done in the last 100 years.  THey will thus most likely be
better prepared to pay any national debt.
W_B - 27 Jun 2005 15:46 GMT
>>Preface: I am Australian. My teeth need help. They make me sick.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>Stephen
>Troy

Of course those would be Aussie dollars.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
kureforcrohns@sbcglobal.net - 01 Jul 2005 19:17 GMT
Terrible solution, but would it satisfy anyone.     For those that cannot
afford dentistry, if the teeth are very decayed or infected, pulling those
teeth should perhaps be free.    Sort of  lopsided  for those at a
disadvantage.   What do they do in prisons or mental facilities.   Give them
extensive treatment or just pull the ones that are causing a problem?    Or
if they have funds privately, can they get the care that would be available
to other paying patients.
Gail

> >Preface: I am Australian. My teeth need help. They make me sick.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting.
Steven Fawks - 02 Jul 2005 13:27 GMT
   What do they do in prisons or mental facilities.   Give them
> extensive treatment or just pull the ones that are causing a problem?    Or
> if they have funds privately, can they get the care that would be available
> to other paying patients.
> Gail

The prisoners that I've seen over the years had two options.  Extract
the tooth, or have someone other than the 'state' pay for treatment.

Fawks
 
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