Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / June 2005
DENTAL PLAN !!! BROKERS AND MEMBERS WANTED!!!
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fayetima6@hotmail.com - 23 Jun 2005 16:10 GMT Do you Need Financial freedom!Look No Further! Unlimited Earning Potential! The Best Work At Home Program! Part-Time From Home! Earn $1000-$4000 Monthly! The Best Dental Plan For $19.95 or $11.95 Monthly 1-800-817-9581 http://www.iboplus.com/fp
W_B - 23 Jun 2005 17:06 GMT >Path: news.easynews.com!en206!core-easynews!newsfeed2.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!199.218.7.141!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail >From: fayetima6@hotmail.com [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Do you Need Financial... ...Spam?
>Look No Further! Reported to: abuse@hotmail.com groups-abuse@google.com --
W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Vaughn Simon - 23 Jun 2005 17:37 GMT > Do you Need... ...more spam? No! Spammers are low-life slime.
Based on past experience, we can safely assume that your dental plan sucks also.
fayetima6@hotmail.com - 24 Jun 2005 12:55 GMT You know what happen when you assume-low life! look in the mirrow. Really I do not need to come down to your level, you people behavior give me a good description of the low class Indivudual's that I am dealing with.
Vaughn Simon - 24 Jun 2005 17:35 GMT > You know what happen when you assume-low life! look in the mirrow. > Really I do not need to come down to your level, you people behavior > give me a good description of the low class Indivudual's that I am > dealing with. Let me get this straight. You are a spammer, who is trying to recruit more spammers right? And you are calling someone ELSE low-life? Have I missed something here?
Vaughn
fayetima6@hotmail.com - 24 Jun 2005 17:42 GMT Right back at you those were exactly your words.
W_B - 24 Jun 2005 17:56 GMT <fayetima6@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> You know what happen when you assume-low life! look in the mirrow.
> Have I >missed something here? Think you missed looking in the "mirrow" --
W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
fayetima6@hotmail.com - 24 Jun 2005 19:17 GMT Bunch of haters
jwn dds - 24 Jun 2005 21:05 GMT > Bunch of haters cha-ching! we have a winner.
Dr. Steve - 24 Jun 2005 22:40 GMT >Bunch of haters If you believe in the plan so highly, then drop the spam sales pitch and discuss the plan instead. We will happily open your eyes to truth. .. Stephen Troy, Michigan, USA
I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting.
fayetima6@hotmail.com - 27 Jun 2005 17:03 GMT Why would I do that, you all behave like animals I would not want to be on the same forum
Dr Steve - 27 Jun 2005 17:06 GMT Sure you would. You keep coming back to taunt us.
Go ahead, convince us why your plan is so great. We will all apologize if you can convince us. I am listening.
 Signature ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S. Michigan, USA ....................................................
This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ......................
> Why would I do that, you all behave like animals I would not want to be > on the same forum fayetima6@hotmail.com - 27 Jun 2005 17:25 GMT If you are suppose to be doctors this is petty, be a leader and set example. A bunch of guys, what is this the boys club, I am not surprise, uncaring is the nature, in it for the money, that is the bottom line. So why should I have to convince people who just attack and are afraid that I am about to rob them of something. I guess I am lucky not to meet you guys in person, maybe I would have been dead.
Tony Bad - 27 Jun 2005 17:31 GMT > If you are suppose to be doctors this is petty, be a leader and set > example. A bunch of guys, what is this the boys club, I am not > surprise, uncaring is the nature, in it for the money, that is the > bottom line. So why should I have to convince people who just attack > and are afraid that I am about to rob them of something. I guess I am > lucky not to meet you guys in person, maybe I would have been dead. Oh the melodrama!
Thus far you have been the guy who calls you at dinner to sell something you neither want or need. Do you embrace those people and listen patiently to their message or do you tune them out? While you may be in the business of being that irritating caller, most people don't want your call. So, quit acting like a victim and either show us your cards or fold and get lost.
T
Dr Steve - 27 Jun 2005 17:35 GMT Notice how the spammer does not go away and refuses to discuss the product to convince us it is not spam.
Maybe I was wrong and his is a troll rather than a spammer.
 Signature ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S. Michigan, USA ....................................................
This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ......................
> If you are suppose to be doctors this is petty, be a leader and set > example. A bunch of guys, what is this the boys club, I am not > surprise, uncaring is the nature, in it for the money, that is the > bottom line. So why should I have to convince people who just attack > and are afraid that I am about to rob them of something. I guess I am > lucky not to meet you guys in person, maybe I would have been dead. carabelli - 27 Jun 2005 18:42 GMT > If you are suppose to be doctors this is petty, be a leader and set > example. A bunch of guys, what is this the boys club, I am not > surprise, uncaring is the nature, in it for the money, that is the > bottom line. So why should I have to convince people who just attack > and are afraid that I am about to rob them of something. I guess I am > lucky not to meet you guys in person, maybe I would have been dead. Oh grow up, your hand was called and you had nothing. Deal with it.
carabelli
fayetima6@hotmail.com - 27 Jun 2005 18:58 GMT Like I said animals
carabelli - 27 Jun 2005 19:11 GMT > Like I said animals All show and no dough.
carabelli
Tony Bad - 27 Jun 2005 19:24 GMT > > Like I said animals > > All show and no dough. > > carabelli Or perhaps all scam and no plan...or all spam and no plan.
T
Dr Steve - 27 Jun 2005 19:36 GMT Maybe the guy invested some of his own money into getting a franchise to sell this goofy scheme, figuring he could peddle it on the internet for no advertising dollars, and is now depressed because we have burst the fragile bubble he held the plan in?
Run-on sentence or what? Back to the Spam in Spain falls mainly on the Grain.
 Signature ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S. Michigan, USA ....................................................
This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ......................
> >> > Like I said animals [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > T Steven Fawks - 27 Jun 2005 20:08 GMT Actually we are being leaders and we are looking out for not only our own patients best interests, but also any who might read this newsgroup.
We have all seen case after case where patients have used discount dental plans and other capitation schemes for a few years. These people thought they were saving money.
Wrong.
They were either sold a bill of goods that were not paid for with the 'plan', or they were patted on the back and sent home with little, no, or defective treatment.
Your plan will not save people money at the dentist's office. It will rob them of their dental health while lining your (and the company you represent) pockets.
You are the uncaring, dangerous, predatory person in this conversation.
Fawks
> If you are suppose to be doctors this is petty, be a leader and set > example. A bunch of guys, what is this the boys club, I am not > surprise, uncaring is the nature, in it for the money, that is the > bottom line. So why should I have to convince people who just attack > and are afraid that I am about to rob them of something. I guess I am > lucky not to meet you guys in person, maybe I would have been dead. fayetima6@hotmail.com - 27 Jun 2005 20:37 GMT As a matter of fact a member saved $200.00 from our plan and called rejoicing about her savings. I have worked for one of the largest Pharmaceutical company in new York and had excellent benefits and whatever my plan did not cover, I supplemented with the plan, thus I was covered 100 percent. Also, my daughter needed braces and the plan paid 50 percent. So please do not talk about what you do not know. while I am on the subject of dentist, talk about being deceptive, my 12 year old daughter was constantly complaining about the dentist, how bad they were and I did not believe her until they did my cleaning. What a bad job, they even try to rip me off on a root canal, second opinion proved that I did not need one.
carabelli - 27 Jun 2005 20:48 GMT > As a matter of fact a member saved $200.00 from our plan and called > rejoicing about her savings. I have worked for one of the largest [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > What a bad job, they even try to rip me off on a root canal, second > opinion proved that I did not need one. So when are you going to post the name of the plan?
Sdores - 27 Jun 2005 21:29 GMT Faye, I am a lurker here and I have been waiting for you to talk about this plan,but so far I haven't heard anything. Please share if you would like. Back to lurking hope everyone is well. UM MOM Susan
>> As a matter of fact a member saved $200.00 from our plan and called >> rejoicing about her savings. I have worked for one of the largest [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > So when are you going to post the name of the plan? fayetima6@hotmail.com - 28 Jun 2005 15:51 GMT Susan You can go to http://www.mybenefitsplus.com/fp
W_B - 28 Jun 2005 16:53 GMT >Path: news.easynews.com!en206!core-easynews!newsfeed2.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail >From: fayetima6@hotmail.com [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > posting-account=1WJwDg0AAACwNs7sERNuWwtV98SSH6Vt >Xref: core-easynews sci.med.dentistry:261955
>You can go to... spammers hell...
Reported to: abuse@hotmail.com groups-abuse@google.com abuse@bellsouth.net --
W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dr Steve - 27 Jun 2005 21:29 GMT Hmmmmm.
Let's start at the beginning. Describe the benefits of your plan very carefully for us.
Any chance the dentist who your family did not like was planning to utilize this discount plan of yours as the sole means of payment? Let me know before I form a pre-conceived opinion.
Is your plan a discount plan or a pre-payment (insurance-type) plan?
 Signature ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S. Michigan, USA ....................................................
This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ......................
> As a matter of fact a member saved $200.00 from our plan and called > rejoicing about her savings. I have worked for one of the largest [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > What a bad job, they even try to rip me off on a root canal, second > opinion proved that I did not need one. carabelli - 27 Jun 2005 21:49 GMT > Hmmmmm. > > Let's start at the beginning. Describe the benefits of your plan very > carefully for us. From the first post in this thread
http://www.iboplus.com/fp
Ameriplan
carabelli
Dr Steve - 27 Jun 2005 22:04 GMT Ohhhhh! Ameriplan! Weren't they started by AmWay? You know the schemes where the only ones getting a deal are the dealers who sell it.
How much do you want to bet that the Ameriplan instructional booklet tells these poor dupes to go the SMD and start advertising for free. I bet they tell them they will get exposure to hundreds of thousands of people (besides the 10-15 regulars here). Could it be coincidence that every new Ameriplan dealer starts by spamming SMD with the same posting which mysteriously tells everyone how they can save soooo much money with their plan without ever naming it?
 Signature ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S. Michigan, USA ....................................................
This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ......................
> >> Hmmmmm. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > carabelli Tony Bad - 27 Jun 2005 22:00 GMT > Hmmmmm. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Is your plan a discount plan or a pre-payment (insurance-type) plan? Here is what it says... -------------------------------------------------- http://www.iboplus.com/fp
AmeriPlan Dental® gives you immediate savings. There are no limits on visits or services you can use.
You never have to complete a claim form or pay full price. As a member of AmeriPlan®, your dentist will reduce their rates up to 80%! Your benefits include:
Orthodontics (braces) for both children and adults.
Cosmetic Dentistry such as bleaching or aesthetic bonded finishes in selected markets.
All Specialists: Pediodontists, Endodontists, Pedodontists, Oral Surgeons, Orthodontists, & Prosthodontists.
All ongoing dental/medical problems (conditions) are accepted except orthodontic treatment in progress, even if you've had a dental problem for a long time. ----------------------------------------------------
Sounds like a discount plan...and as a wise man once said, sometimes you get what you pay for, and sometimes you get less. I checked in my area and the dentist's who accept this plan are accepting 50% or less than their regular fees. Wonder how they make up that 50%?
T
Steven Fawks - 27 Jun 2005 22:58 GMT > Sounds like a discount plan...and as a wise man once said, sometimes you get > what you pay for, and sometimes you get less. I checked in my area and the > dentist's who accept this plan are accepting 50% or less than their regular > fees. Wonder how they make up that 50%? > > T 1. Diagnose and treat imaginary problems.
2. Diagnose and charge for problems that are never really treated.
3. Sell bleaching, amalgam replacement, and veneers.
4. Recommend treatment that the plan does not cover.
5. Inflate fees so that the 'discounts' are actually imaginary.
6. Every patient needs four quadrants of scaling and root planing.
7. Only the cheapest dental supplies are used and they are used very sparingly.
8. Sterilization protocols may be 'shortened'.
9. Re-use many disposables.
10. Half-assed Sargenti technique for endo.
11. Foreign labs for anything done off site.
12. Only run the Oxygen tank at 4L/min. (if the patient is paying for the nitrous)
13. Use your friends expired materials (those dates are just to make the companies more money anyway)
I'm sure that I missed a few,
Fawks
Robert Morien - 27 Jun 2005 21:39 GMT > As a matter of fact a member saved $200.00 from our plan and called > rejoicing about her savings. I have worked for one of the largest [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > What a bad job, they even try to rip me off on a root canal, second > opinion proved that I did not need one. So you don't like dentists, don't trust them, yet you are selling dental insurance via spam and cannot/will not discuss the plans details. You never worked for a Pharmaceutical company...you've always worked for a politician or lawyer.
And really, learn how to quote
fayetima6@hotmail.com - 28 Jun 2005 15:14 GMT It is people like you that gives the porfession a bad name. The wedsite is on the posting if you are so intereted why dont you go there. I would never want you to be asociated with you guys so, I have no intention discussing the plan with negative people. I got the impression that everyone is bored and have nothing to talk about. Thank God for Fay and her Discount Dantal Plan, the topic of the century. Twenty years in the Pharmaceutical Industry as a Quality Assurance Specialist and still doing it here in Florida.
Dr Steve - 28 Jun 2005 16:57 GMT Come on convince us of how great your plan is. Don't run away with your tail between your legs.
 Signature ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S. Michigan, USA ....................................................
This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ......................
> It is people like you that gives the porfession a bad name. The wedsite > is on the posting if you are so intereted why dont you go there. I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Twenty years in the Pharmaceutical Industry as a Quality Assurance > Specialist and still doing it here in Florida. Tony Bad - 28 Jun 2005 18:48 GMT > It is people like you that gives the porfession a bad name. The wedsite > is on the posting if you are so intereted why dont you go there. I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Twenty years in the Pharmaceutical Industry as a Quality Assurance > Specialist and still doing it here in Florida. ...and I am sure the insurance "porfession" is proud to have you as a member!
It frightens me to see such poor spelling and incoherent thinking from a "Quality Assurance Specialist"...in the pharmaceutical industry of all things!!...yikes.
The plan you are selling is good for the person selling it, or those higher than you on the pyramid. The average dental consumer gets lulled into thinking they bought something good when they have really bought almost nothing. The negativity you have sensed here is because we see your "plan" for what it is, and that isn't good for sales. If you are proud to be in the business of selling ice to Eskimos, good for you, but don't expect a warm welcome from those who know better.
T
carabelli - 28 Jun 2005 19:17 GMT > > It is people like you that gives the porfession a bad name. The wedsite > > is on the posting if you are so intereted why dont you go there. I [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > things!!...yikes. > ................ I wasn't aware the duties of a Quality Assurance Specialist in the pharmaceutical industry included this-- ------------ Fantasy fetish Shop in the privacy of your home www.SuperAdultToyStore.com www.ViewXXXFree.com sextoysfun - Jun 13, 9:13 pm by fayetima6@hotmail.com - 1 message - 1 author ----------------
carabelli
fayetima6@hotmail.com - 28 Jun 2005 19:26 GMT Do you you know what it entails
Tony Bad - 28 Jun 2005 19:59 GMT > Do you you know what it entails I'm guessing clear thought or honesty isn't a requirement.
T
fayetima6@hotmail.com - 28 Jun 2005 20:22 GMT Thanks for the advertisement-shop away!
Steven Fawks - 28 Jun 2005 22:15 GMT > Do you you know what it entails If it depends upon your personal assessment on the quality of a particular product, I am deeply concerned.
Hopefully you understand drugs better than dentistry.
Fawks
carabelli - 29 Jun 2005 01:12 GMT > Do you you know what it entails Guess it doesn't pay much if your other spam sideline is sex toys.
Actually, your full of it brown eyes.
carabelli
W_B - 29 Jun 2005 15:00 GMT >Do you you know what it entails Reading entrails ? --
W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
fayetima6@hotmail.com - 29 Jun 2005 13:37 GMT I am not writing a paper I am dealing with morans. During my career I have been nominated for employee of the month many times. Actually, I am wasting my time with a bunch of angry men who gets the pleasure of dishing out negativity.
carabelli - 29 Jun 2005 13:48 GMT > I am not writing a paper I am dealing with morans. During my career I > have been nominated for employee of the month many times. ........... Were the other greeters at Walmart jealous?
carabelli
Dr Steve - 29 Jun 2005 13:51 GMT ROTFLOL
 Signature ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S. Michigan, USA ....................................................
This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ......................
>I am not writing a paper I am dealing with morans. During my career I > have been nominated for employee of the month many times. Actually, I > am wasting my time with a bunch of angry men who gets the pleasure of > dishing out negativity. Steven Fawks - 29 Jun 2005 14:21 GMT W_B - 29 Jun 2005 15:09 GMT >I am not writing a paper I am dealing with morans. During my career I >have been nominated for employee of the month many times. Actually, I >am wasting my time with a bunch of angry men who gets the pleasure of >dishing out negativity. ITYM mormons
Ja|\| is that you ? --
W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Stormin Mormon - 29 Jun 2005 19:58 GMT What's a moran?
 Signature Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org www.mormons.com
I am not writing a paper I am dealing with morans. During my career I have been nominated for employee of the month many times. Actually, I am wasting my time with a bunch of angry men who gets the pleasure of dishing out negativity.
Tony Bad - 29 Jun 2005 21:36 GMT > What's a moran? Here is what it is in my part of the world...
http://www.morantug.com/index.html
T
W_B - 29 Jun 2005 22:16 GMT >> What's a moran? >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >T Could be this, but probably mis-spelled. www.house.gov/moranks01/ --
W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Robert Morien - 29 Jun 2005 21:57 GMT > What's a moran? The family name of some of my best friends...she's insulted everyone of them.
Steven Fawks - 27 Jun 2005 22:27 GMT How do you base "saved $200"?
Quoted a fee of 'X' for a crown, then told that the 'plan' would save them $200? I know how that game works. Told by their normal dentist that a crown cost 'X' and goes to a 'plan dentist' who provides some type of crown for $200 less? Did this include the cost of 'plan' for 12 months?
Sure there are some bad eggs out there. This type of plan brings out the best in them.
Fawks
> As a matter of fact a member saved $200.00 from our plan and called > rejoicing about her savings. Tony Bad - 27 Jun 2005 15:10 GMT > Bunch of haters There is a plan I'll sign up for! The I hate spam plan!
T
W_B - 27 Jun 2005 15:27 GMT >Bunch of haters Yeah, we hate spam.
--
W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dr. Steve - 24 Jun 2005 22:37 GMT >You know what happen when you assume-low life! look in the mirrow. >Really I do not need to come down to your level, you people behavior >give me a good description of the low class Indivudual's that I am >dealing with. VCMS
Spain is span no matter how hard you pretend it is not. .. Stephen Troy, Michigan, USA
I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting.
Dr. Steve - 24 Jun 2005 22:44 GMT >>You know what happen when you assume-low life! look in the mirrow. >>Really I do not need to come down to your level, you people behavior [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting. Re-Type---
VCMS
Spam is spam no matter how hard you pretend it is not.
Handwriting recognition coupled with a double step spell checker can do weird things. .. Stephen Troy, Michigan, USA
I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting.
fayetima6@hotmail.com - 27 Jun 2005 13:20 GMT Spain is span no matter how hard you pretend it is not.
Dr Steve - 27 Jun 2005 13:41 GMT So, did you want to discuss your "wonderful" plan, or would you prefer to just throw things?
 Signature ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S. Michigan, USA ....................................................
This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ......................
> Spain is span no matter how hard you pretend it is not. Tony Bad - 27 Jun 2005 15:12 GMT > So, did you want to discuss your "wonderful" plan, or would you prefer to > just throw things? I am sure the latter route is the safer one for this person. The plan is probably just an empty suit...why else would it need to be peddled via spam?
T
W_B - 27 Jun 2005 15:27 GMT >>You know what happen when you assume-low life! look in the mirrow. >>Really I do not need to come down to your level, you people behavior [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting. Spain is span ? --
W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Vaughn Simon - 27 Jun 2005 16:42 GMT > > Spain is span no matter how hard you pretend it is not. > >.. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Spain is span ? The spam in Spain falls mainly in the...
Vaughn
W_B - 27 Jun 2005 16:54 GMT >> > Spain is span no matter how hard you pretend it is not. >> >.. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Vaughn ...HMO plan... ? --
W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dr Steve - 27 Jun 2005 17:01 GMT You owe me a new keyboard!
 Signature ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S. Michigan, USA ....................................................
>> > Spain is span no matter how hard you pretend it is not. >> >.. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Vaughn fayetima6@hotmail.com - 27 Jun 2005 17:33 GMT What happen you dont know how to type-you should be well rounded.
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