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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / June 2005Reading books on the subject of "TMJ"
This book by A. Richard Goldman, DDS can be read online: "TMJ Syndrome: The Overlooked Diagnosis" Congdon and Weed 1987, Simon and Schuster 1989, Concorde Press 1997 http://www.headandneck.com/book/ http://www.headandneck.com/book/TOC.htm (Table of Contents) I have a copy of it in storage somewhere... probably the 1987 edition. Browsing the TOC and some pages from various chapters, it seems far out of date. As a piece of history, it supports the need for everything I have done in my effort to describe how a TMJ iatroepidemic happened and can still be happening ... Here's hoping that readers will take a quick look, or a long one, to see why I have decided to bring it to the "table". Webby "I have TMJ" That is my favorite line that patients say. Sorry I know this is off topic. > This book by A. Richard Goldman, DDS can be read online: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Webby No, to the contrary, it is not at all off topic. The topic helps us to understand why they have come to say that. Take a look inside the link to Dr. Goldman's book for some clues. Also, you can look at the website of Dr. Wartell. He promotes the use of the NTI yet I am quite surprised by the language used within the many pages of his website beginning with: http://www.wartell.com/html/NTIArticle.html There are many valid reasons why patients say, "I have TMJ". (When I hear it, it is like finger nails on a chalkboard. But it's *most important* that everyone tries to understand why this statement is being heard. Thanks for your comment and I hope you'll stay with the topic. Webby > "I have TMJ" > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > > > Webby > Also, you can look at the website > of Dr. Wartell. He promotes the use of the NTI yet I am quite surprised > by the language used within the many pages of his website beginning > with: > > http://www.wartell.com/html/NTIArticle.html Thanks Webby, I also find the language of that article interesting. In the first paragraph, the author seems to EQUATE migraine headaches with TMJ problems: "Although numerous drugs are now on the market which are intended to subdue TMJ pain after the attack has already begun, preventing TMJ has been less than satisfactory. The reason why the manufacture of "rescue" medications, like Imitrex (GlaxoWelcome), has become a multi-billion dollar business is because the medications for the prevention of TMJ pain have been so disappointing." Imitrex is indeed a "rescue" medication specifically for migraine pain, but this is the first time I have seen it referenced as a treatment for "TMJ pain." This would seem to make the reader think that migraines and "TMJ" are the same thing. Yet later in the same page, the author seems to say something different: "This is not to say the intense jaw clenching alone is the cause of migraine, but does put research back on track." Finally! Up to that point, the reader would assume an unalienable relation between the two. But as soon as the author finally makes a distinction between migraines and "intense jaw clenching," the very next sentence seems to blur the boundaries again: "So for the best way to prevent migraine, instead of putting a pill in your stomach, you put a device on your teeth!" This would seem to add right back into the mix, the confusion between migraines and TMJ problems. It's no wonder some patients start their first visit to a new dentist with the fingernail-screeching statement, "I have TMJ." There's enough confusion out there to keep everyone mixed up for years. - dentaldoc > There are many valid reasons why patients say, "I have TMJ". (When I > hear it, it is like finger nails on a chalkboard. But it's *most > important* that everyone tries to understand why this statement is being > heard. > > Webby > > Also, you can look at the website > > of Dr. Wartell. He promotes the use of the NTI yet I am quite surprised > > by the language used within the many pages of his website beginning > > with: > > > > http://www.wartell.com/html/NTIArticle.html <quote> Although researchers are relatively comfortable with their hypotheses of what happens during a TMJ (which is what rescue drugs are designed for), they have been completely puzzled as to what to do for TMJ pain prevention. </quote> So what DOES happen "during a TMJ" ???? SP  SignatureFinally: take out the TRASHH > > > Also, you can look at the website > > > of Dr. Wartell. He promotes the use of the NTI yet I am quite surprised [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > SP SP and Bill ... Don't look at me for an answer... 'cause I sure don't know... *but*, maybe that's partly why they're completely puzzled??? ;-) Webby > SP and Bill ... Don't look at me for an answer... 'cause I sure don't > know... *but*, maybe that's partly why they're completely puzzled??? ;-) > > Webby Yeah, but see: Based on their complete puzzlement, they try to sell you a treatment or even a an irreversible surgery. SP SignatureFinally: take out the TRASHH > > SP and Bill ... Don't look at me for an answer... 'cause I sure don't > > know... *but*, maybe that's partly why they're completely puzzled??? ;-) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > a treatment or even a an irreversible surgery. > SP Oh yes... I know that story well. And then some. Webby Hey Bill, somehow I let this post get marked as "read" and didn't realize I hadn't replied to thank you for your in-depth reply. (I went back and reloaded all the posts and *there* it was.) > > Also, you can look at the website > > of Dr. Wartell. He promotes the use of the NTI yet I am quite surprised [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks Webby, You're welcome and thank you. (I'm not going to clip the text because maybe others missed it.) Webby -dentaldoc wrote: > I also find the language of that article interesting. In the first > paragraph, the author seems to EQUATE migraine headaches with TMJ [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > > > Webby > This book by A. Richard Goldman, DDS can be read online: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://www.headandneck.com/book/ [snip] > Here's hoping that readers will take a quick look, or a long one, to see > why I have decided to bring it to the "table". > > Webby One of the best dentists I ever saw (defining "best" as the ability to save a tooth and not cause me pain while doing so) shocked me by trying to sell me treatment for TMJ. My jaw does occasionally make a popping sound when I open it wide, for instance when undergoing dental treatment. But I have zero other symptoms of TMJ. No pain, no headaches. No nothing. He just went on and on about how he was going to "help" me. On a follow up visit, a loud female who was outside of my field of view just gushed about how much better her life was after treatment for TMJ from the good doctor. Minutes later, when it was my turn to be seen, he brought it up again. I finally just told him a bald faced lie that I never ever hear any popping sounds when I open my mouth - even though I'm sure he had heard them himself. It is amazing what doctors sometimes do when they lose sight of helping their patients first, and instead put the profits first. SignatureTony Sivori > > This book by A. Richard Goldman, DDS can be read online: > > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > It is amazing what doctors sometimes do when they lose sight of > helping their patients first, and instead put the profits first. Thanks for describing your experience. Would you be able to elaborate just a bit? I'm wondering about: 1) When did this take place? 2) What was your age? 3) What do you think he was going to prescribe as the treatment? 4) What was the treatment supposed to do (stop the noise?)? Again, thanks for getting involved in the thread. Best wishes, Webby > Thanks for describing your experience. Would you be able to elaborate > just a bit? I'm wondering about: > > 1) When did this take place? 2000, give or take a year or two. > 2) What was your age? I'm middle aged. > 3) What do you think he was going to prescribe as the treatment? I've no idea. I would not discuss it with him. > 4) What was the treatment supposed to do (stop the noise?)? Make the Dentist slightly wealthier. SignatureTony Sivori >>4) What was the treatment supposed to do (stop the noise?)? > > Make the Dentist slightly wealthier. I'm not taking up for the dentist in this story, however one possibility other than profits could be an issue. Some professionals (at whatever) believe themselves to almost be a god. They can brainwash themselves (and others) that they are actually 'the answer' for 'problems' that only they can solve. Fawks > >>4) What was the treatment supposed to do (stop the noise?)? > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Fawks I agree with you, but I have also found that those practitioners with a god complex often have a fairly high profit margin as well. Then again, I have been called a cynic. T >> I'm not taking up for the dentist in this story, however one >> possibility other than profits could be an issue. Some professionals [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >T "You get what you pay for, sometimes you get less" ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Wonderful sage advice. ;-) Fawks > "You get what you pay for, sometimes you get less" ? > -- > > W_B >> This book by A. Richard Goldman, DDS can be read online: >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >sell me treatment for TMJ. My jaw does occasionally make a popping sound >when I open it wide, for instance when undergoing dental treatment. Internal derangement of the TemporoMandibular Joint. >But I >have zero other symptoms of TMJ. No pain, no headaches. No nothing. He >just went on and on about how he was going to "help" me. ITYM no symptoms yet. >On a follow up visit, a loud female who was outside of my field of view >just gushed about how much better her life was after treatment for TMJ [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >It is amazing what doctors sometimes do when they lose sight of >helping their patients first, and instead put the profits first. My bullsh*tometer just pegged. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>One of the best dentists I ever saw (defining "best" as the ability to >>save a tooth and not cause me pain while doing so) shocked me by trying [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > ITYM no symptoms yet. I don't know what "ITYM" means. I'm aware of no changes in my Temporo Mandibular Joint (glad I don't have to try to pronounce *that*), good or bad, in the past couple of decades. It certainly isn't dislocating; it isn't that kind of pop. It's more like knuckles cracking. >>On a follow up visit, a loud female who was outside of my field of view >>just gushed about how much better her life was after treatment for TMJ [...] >>It is amazing what doctors sometimes do when they lose sight of helping >>their patients first, and instead put the profits first. > > My bullsh*tometer just pegged. So was mine, which was the point of my post. SignatureTony Sivori >>>One of the best dentists I ever saw (defining "best" as the ability to >>>save a tooth and not cause me pain while doing so) shocked me by trying [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >I don't know what "ITYM" means. I Think You Mean/Meant >I'm aware of no changes in my Temporo Mandibular Joint (glad I don't have >to try to pronounce *that*), good or bad, in the past couple of decades. >It certainly isn't dislocating; it isn't that kind of pop. It's more like >knuckles cracking. Crepitus. >>>On a follow up visit, a loud female who was outside of my field of view >>>just gushed about how much better her life was after treatment for TMJ [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >So was mine, which was the point of my post. NTI headachehope.com -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com |
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