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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / July 2005Are the Chinese ( god love them) making implants yet?
Once you skip the propriatary aspects, how much can it actually cost to make a titanium post/implant ? And how much do they cost western dentists ? As for the procedure, isn't it simplicity itself ? So aren't the prices present really a kind of cartel robbery ? Why does one become a dentist? Mainly it seems to make a Lot of money, or from my poor experiene, to hurt people. Decry asian work, but there are a lot of S**ts in the USA and UK too. Hiya! Are you in one of the Asian countries?  Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S. Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > Once you skip the propriatary aspects, how much can it actually cost to > make a titanium post/implant ? And how much do they cost western [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > or from my poor experiene, to hurt people. Decry asian work, but there > are a lot of S**ts in the USA and UK too. Not yet, but I will advise every retiree to check them out. Perhaps I'll go arrange to open alot of clinics over there. > Once you skip the propriatary aspects, how much can it actually cost to > make a titanium post/implant ? And how much do they cost western [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > or from my poor experiene, to hurt people. Decry asian work, but there > are a lot of S**ts in the USA and UK too. Go on over there and see. You will find they use a lot of French and European products. If they _do_ make them, remember that the individual in China is worth a piece of dirt. You will be used as a guinea pig. Good Luck, but don't complain if things go bad. I would leave the belittling attitude towards dentists at home if I wwere you. SP SignatureFinally: take out the TRASHH remember that the individual in China is worth a piece of dirt. Which is a good deal more than idiots who make such comments are worth. > remember that the individual > in China is worth a piece of dirt. > > Which is a good deal more than idiots who make such comments are worth. yeah... f u 2 You haven't got a clue what I'm talking about SP SignatureFinally: take out the TRASHH > Once you skip the propriatary aspects, how much can it actually cost to > make a titanium post/implant ? And how much do they cost western [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > or from my poor experiene, to hurt people. Decry asian work, but there > are a lot of S**ts in the USA and UK too. Ya gotta let go of that anger--it's no good for you. Yeah, I'm sure the Chinese will turn out cheaper implants. I'm wondering when they'll start making cars for the US market. I read that after the current round of layoffs at GM, they'll be well under 200,000 total employees in the US, down from over 800,000 in the mid 1970s. Will there be any autos made in the US if the Chinese start importing cars? Yeah, the procedure is simplicity itself--just like all dentistry--when you go to school for years and years to learn how to do it. Steve SignatureCut the nonsense to reply > I read that after the current round of layoffs at GM Bet the news article forgot to mention the increase in jobs at American based foriegn auto manufacturers. Have any idea who the top auto maker is now ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >> I read that after the current round of layoffs at GM > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Well, of course there are plenty of Hondas and Toyotas being made stateside. It's still a sad statement on industrial production in this country. My understanding of this issue is far from complete. GM and Ford claim they cannot compete because of "legacy issues". In other words, an American company cannot be competitive if they give old-style "cradle to grave" benefits. Of course, benefits for employees in China are considerably worse, so in order to compete there will be pressure for a "race to the bottom". Either that, or the US will pretty much abdicate factory production to the low-cost producers in parts of the world where living standards are much poorer. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >>> I read that after the current round of layoffs at GM >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >stateside. It's still a sad statement on industrial production in this >country. Toyota #1 auto maker. What's sad about it ? > My understanding of this issue is far from complete. GM and Ford claim >they cannot compete because of "legacy issues". In other words, an >American company cannot be competitive if they give old-style "cradle to >grave" benefits. I believe that the days of "cradle to grave" benifits are numbered. >Of course, benefits for employees in China are >considerably worse, so in order to compete there will be pressure for a >"race to the bottom". That assumes employees in China get any benefits other than having a job. Sill a communist country, developments there will be interesting. > Either that, or the US will pretty much abdicate >factory production to the low-cost producers in parts of the world where >living standards are much poorer. And don't forget there are well over a billion Chinese (~1.29 B) to our measly 280 million (2000 census). Of course labor is going to be cheap. Still I like that foriegn auto manufacturers are here in the US. Saves on shipping costs too. >Steve -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > And don't forget there are well over a billion Chinese (~1.29 B) > to our measly 280 million (2000 census). > Of course labor is going to be cheap. > > Still I like that foriegn auto manufacturers are here in the US. > Saves on shipping costs too. Hard to say what the long term effects are going to be. There needs to be a percentage of jobs that the 'average American' can handle and still make a decent wage or society is in for some big changes. The unions in the US simply got too good at what they do. Wages and working conditions were awful in the late 1800's. As the unions improved the workers plight, they continued until they literally priced US labor out of the market. A guy who puts shocks on Ford Escapes has two new cars, a nice, fairly new house, and will retire before I do. Most of them work hard and I wouldn't really want to trade places with them. However, the pay and benefits are *very* good considering the skill level needed for the job. Lots of people (probably even in this country) would do the job for a lot less money with little or no benefits. Fawks >>>> I read that after the current round of layoffs at GM >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Toyota #1 auto maker. What's sad about it ? GM is still the sales leader, with annual revenues of $193.5 billion. Toyota's annual revenues are third, at $165.7 billion, just behind Ford's at $170.8 billion. Perhaps you meant that Toyota is number one in market value? Here is the market value for each: Toyota=$141 billion Ford=$23.2 billion GM=$20.2 billion >> Toyota #1 auto maker. What's sad about it ? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Ford=$23.2 billion >GM=$20.2 billion Yep, that must be what I meant. Heard a blurb on CNBC herewhileback, maybe it was #'s of units sold/yr ? Could have been market cap. Ford and GM have serious problems with thier pensions and health insurance costs. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com GM is still the sales leader, with annual revenues of $193.5 billion. I have heard from several sources that autos account for 10% of GM. They own big chunks of foreign co's so it's good for union disciple if foreugn sales are up. Ya gotta let go of that anger--it's no good for you. Rather presumptuous of you doncha know. I read that after the current round of layoffs at GM, they'll be well under 200,000 total employees in the US, down from over 800,000 in the mid 1970s. Will there be any autos made in the US if the Chinese start importing cars? So where do the masses of displaced workers go for health care? Yeah, the procedure is simplicity itself--just like all dentistry--when you go to school for years and years to learn how to do it. School? you mean pay your dues to the cartel? I remember years back a story that NY state was cutting back support for medical schools, reason too many Drs and their wages would fall. Why is it that Dr are used for the common cold etc? Certainly not for reasons of the general health of the pop, > Once you skip the propriatary aspects, how much can it actually cost to > make a titanium post/implant ? And how much do they cost western > dentists ? As for the procedure, isn't it simplicity itself ? So aren't > the prices present really a kind of cartel robbery ? > > Why does one become a dentist? 1) To make lots of money 2) To hurt people >Mainly it seems to make a Lot of money, > or from my poor experiene, to hurt people. Whoops. I should have read your next sentence before answering. > > Once you skip the propriatary aspects, how much can it actually cost to > > make a titanium post/implant ? And how much do they cost western [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Whoops. I should have read your next sentence before answering. From any one person's experience, such a perspective can happen. But surely "wblakesx" realizes that this is likely not a proper perspective of the profession as a whole. Or... maybe "wblakesx" can not see the big picture. It's possible. Webby It seem that those who have putatively attempted to disscus the question tend towards a deficit in comprehsion as well as attention. As for the rest, if you want to talk about relative econmics let's look at illegal immigration, housing and infrastucture costs, and the large money players who are playing cost up when they would otherwise decline. No pop growth, not increase in housing etc cost, decline in pop, decline in housing cost and the whole "system" goes belly up. Amoung the supporters of the "System" are dentist, doctors, lawyers ( suicides ) who act as buffers in the class system and maintain the price of a simple item worth 50¢ fob at something in the Hundreds$. So you belong to the Degreed Union and can ballock up all you want while you oversee your investment potfolios which help you maintain your egos as elite. Meanwhile when you take your car in for a spark change you may get hit for $100's which should be $10's. USA society is built on Competition, as in the jungle, and that suits the "winners" fine, if it doesn't they turn their backs on it, but there is always room for lower class to fill the power vacume. Competition in the sense that "Business is War" ( entrepeneur magazine 9/11/2000 ) So the Americans and Euros find life too hard to even reproduce their numbers, deflation sets in, capitalism falls... but no, we can illegally import growth and knock down non "degreed racketeers" wages further. Bur Soc Sec will still be bankrupted because of teh "baby crash" after the baby boon, demand on goods and services will remain high where they should fall and a merica will go into a period of wars to keep wealth from becoming superfluous. The ordinary worker has faced decline in wages due to the BB, raises in rents, competition from illegals artificial wage restraint, out sourcing, downsizing, women and others entering the work force , welfare reform etc ad nauseum and the answer is to give tax cuts to the rich who have been gaining all the poor have lost, with interest. And crime amazingly keeps declining when the lesson is Press whatever advantage you have. Pro Bono, what was that all about, why would anyone do pro bono? I've ccertainly never seen it! The last dentist I knew who I'd let tie my shoes was in Boston c1980. I'll take my chances offshore as soon as implants show up from China. I sick of this jerk/yank crap of doing sh.t work while charging 1000% markup and spilling their ink in the public forum while pretending to be better than Dillinger. > The last dentist I knew who I'd let tie my shoes was in Boston c1980. > I'll take my chances offshore as soon as implants show up from China. I > sick of this jerk/yank crap of doing sh.t work while charging 1000% > markup and spilling their ink in the public forum while pretending to > be better than Dillinger. Had to drop a few grand for a new air abrasion machine today. I needed a laugh. May you get what you ask for. ;-) Fawks Actually I became a dentist to make a lot of money and have a 4-day work week. I highly recommend it. I invite you and anyone else who wants... to become a dentist as well. > Once you skip the propriatary aspects, how much can it actually cost to > make a titanium post/implant ? And how much do they cost western [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > or from my poor experiene, to hurt people. Decry asian work, but there > are a lot of S**ts in the USA and UK too. lot's of dentists talking about cars here. No real attempts at answers.http://www.google.com/pagead/iclk?adurl=http://www.plenitas.com/landple-ing.asp% 3Fkw%3D64429%26me%3D2%26av%3D19&sa=l&ai=BDLRajbKwQo_5IIKeigGSr-3NCuqgzQqGv46nAcC NtwGwzAsQAhgCIPfbjQIoA0iXOaAB7ODq_gOqAT50cmVldmlldytFeHBlcmltZW50VG9wR3JvdXBzQnl QYWdlVmlld3MrcHVibGljK25vbmFkdWx0K3VzZW5ldMgBAegBAQ&num=2 So, why do our elected reps not address the three most regressive taxes in the USA. SS, MT, and inflation ( which is basically the fed increasing the money supply to finance deficit spending). You know as well as I do, $$$$. The day of patriot politicians is long gone. Don't rag at the dentists about it, you will have a hard time finding one in about 15 yrs, thank your reps in DC for that one too. carabelli Sorry-assed troll (not you Dan <G>). Fawks > lot's of dentists talking about cars here. No real attempts at > answers. Listen, trout-face, ask an intelligent and clear question. SP SignatureFinally: take out the TRASHH "Are the Chinese making implants yet? Once you skip the propriatary aspects, how much can it actually cost to make a titanium post/implant ? And how much do they cost western dentists ? " Propriatary: of or relating to an owner or ownership... They question re the work being "simplicity itself " has been answered in the affirmative. Sorry to be so hard on you poor people "blind to the simple laws of life". Since I seem to have attracted some dental catepillars, how much do you charge for a simple extraction? How long does it take? And since some choose highbrow rude and others low: How much does dinner with the wife cost, and her new dress? I've had a dentist brag about how great his crown caster was only to have his partner tell me the crowns he made were junk and that I'd need new ones ( two weeks after I got them, when they fell off... both of them ), a crown that left a gap and set the next tooth to it needing (?) a root canal. a root canal where the quack told me if I couldn't take the pain ( amoung the two most paimful experiences in my lie, the other was a severe ear infection ) I should go somewhere else ( taking him at his word, I got up at that point, had no prob with the next dentist ). Seen many dentists spend more time working on their investment potfolios than dentistry. "Don't worry be happy". Tut Tut America is the greatest country in the world, it's the only place you can criticise the gov, vote , be free. Pity is every one seems so busy making dough watching tube, trying to be some variant of omnipotence or superman ( generally risable or disgusting from a little distance ) they have lost sight of those simple rules of life yet unwittily pay the price for transgressions they have closed their minds to. Much of what we hide from ourselves is plainly visable across the room. Blame it on the messenger or the next guy as it comes crashing down. A mind is a terrible thing to loose and illiteracy is much more than a problem of the ruling and lower classes. "Sorry assed troll", does't address my clear and pertinant q does it. No, it is reflexive, traductive, trolling, a provocation, autistic, solipcistic, tautologocal [ hey, I caled him logical!] . An unsipid attempt at rhetoric. " Listen, trout-face, ask an intelligent and clear question. " My, what acumen. such a clever boyo. ( do I sense a pout in each of those two posts ? ) AS for no dentist in the USA in 15 years, your probably almost right. There will be lots of Phillepeno dentists, but alot of the work will go offshore if the rest of the world doesn't legalize shooting USers Basically there have been attempts to change the subject. shift blame, claim everyone does it, that others are worse and insult the questioner. About what one would expect from puerile, self centred louts. Though I don't want to tarr all with that bush it would be nice to actually get some more answers to my q's. Well, I read most of that, but saw nothing that was intelligent or clear. It was sort of a stream of unconsciousness. Vaughn > Well, I read most of that, but saw nothing that was intelligent or clear. > It was sort of a stream of unconsciousness. > > Vaughn Let's be fair Vaughn: he DID ask if the Chineese were copying Western medical technology. That was a straight and fair question. The REASON he is asking, and his openness (or lack thereof) to the consequences of the answer is what ticked me off. But if he is courageous, he will go and see for himself. And if he wants an opinion of the website he quoted, I for one cannot give one. I know nothing about Brazillian spa clinics. Cheers SP SignatureFinally: take out the TRASHH > Well, I read most of that, but saw nothing that was intelligent or clear. >It was sort of a stream of unconsciousness. > >Vaughn Good one ! -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > " Listen, trout-face, ask an intelligent and clear question. " My, > what acumen. such a clever boyo. ( do I sense a pout in each of those > two posts ? ) You asked ONE clear and intelligent question here, and that was: "Are the Chineese making implants yet?" I gave you an answer designed to raise a real 'caveat emptor' in your mind. Do you know anything about China? Have you ever been there? Have you at least asked some recent immigrants WHY they left? What I am saying is still true today, even with all the 'openness' that the regime is trying to portray to the world, in prep for the Olympics, and for the PR purposes for the few years that they still need some influence in the West. I'll say it again for you, and if you can shut your mind up and turn off the filters long enough, you will hear it: In China, the individual is worth no more than the dirt he or she walks on. This is in direct contrast to the attitude that the Japaneese adopt. IF (and that is a big if) you are accepted into their business world or thier cultural world, they become like brothers and wil protect you till the end. What does this mean? If the Japaneese researchers find flaws in implants they are making, they will move Heaven and Hell to find out the problem, rectify it and would not DREAM of placing substandard apparatus in the jaws of patients. Their sense of duty, honor, and yes, their real sense of superiority dictate that route of conduct. In China, by contrast, one can see the clear pattern of behavior since just afte the second world war: when faced with a bothersome people or situation, ELIMINATE it. Thus: they will place substandard apparatus in your jaws and then ask you to kindly get out of their way. If you do not, you will be headed for serious trouble; because you are a number, a statistic, YOU DON'T MATTER. If you choose to do business there, you would do well to heed this advice (which comes from many other people who are in the know). And you should see that land for yourself, while you still can, as they are the emergent world power, whether GWB likes it or not. So yes, go over there and get some screws put in. If it works, great. If it doesn't, you are ON YOUR OWN. I am finished with this thread. Sincerely, SP SignatureFinally: take out the TRASHH evasion, misdirection, traduction and lies. reminds of gm in the 70's. I wish I could " take out the trash" but it seems sinecured. > evasion, misdirection, traduction and lies. reminds of gm in the 70's. > I wish I could " take out the trash" but it seems sinecured. Just like I thought: you haven't been there. One can lead a horse to water, but one cannot pull up one's roots to see how fast one is growing. And taking out the TRAASH is the easiest thing in the world to do. The End SP SignatureFinally: take out the TRASHH A refutation of your sophistry: Just like I thought: you haven't been there.; You haven't been "there" either ( though perhaps you saw a narrow slice through you "filters", you have no idea how societies are composed ). I Have been here and as I noted above have seen the predatory shabbiness of The Business in the USA. I also have a large # of Chinese friends, intensely family oriented and extensively networked through their friends. I would no more go blindly into a Chinese dental office than I would to a Yank. Your character assaination of the Chinese is biggoted and partial. I have never been to Hereford city hall, but I have had friends in the SAS. I have lived in London, but don't know tem% of it, and it changes in time and by the roll of the dice. I haven't been to the Bahamas but I assume them, on other authority, to exist and have some lovely beaches, regardless of what some partisan loon might say. I had a friend in Wales who would look at your type, spit and wordessly walk away if You greeted him. A very sensible man. A search of the group returned: 2,590 results for StovePipe; or about a 100 hrs of posting, looks like shill, a very generous guy ( a proposition confounded by his post here ), or a variety of idiot. > A search of the group returned: 2,590 results for StovePipe; or about > a 100 hrs of posting, looks like shill, a very generous guy ( a > proposition confounded by his post here ), or a variety of idiot. How do you arrive at this estimate for the amount of hours it takes to post 2,590 articles to usenet? I'd go with "a very generous guy" if you asked my opinion of StovePipe. Webby >> A search of the group returned: 2,590 results for StovePipe; or about >> a 100 hrs of posting, looks like shill, a very generous guy ( a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Webby I agree .. Stephen Troy, Michigan, USA I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting. > I agree > .. > Stephen > Troy, Michigan, USA Me three. Arlo Guthrie would say that makes us an organization. Steve > I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting. SignatureCut the nonsense to reply A search of the group returned: 2,590 results for StovePipe; or about a 100+ hrs of posting, looks like shill, a very generous guy ( a proposition confounded by his post here ), or a variety of idiot. "And taking out the TRAASH is the easiest thing in the world to do.", There are in fact many things easier. But that is not the point is it. Your reposte is a riddle , squiddish "ink" to obscure the passive agressiveness of the origional. Likely a manifestation of an anal fixation. See a shrink. > Likely a manifestation of an anal >fixation. You must have 'personal experience' in that reargard. <plonk> -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com In China, the individual is worth no more than the dirt he or she walks on. Rather like the first americans, niggers, phillepinoes, gooks, geeks ( remember Columbine Shenzen?), Irish, Germans, Jews, Spics Witches, Hippies, hoboes, communists, monarchists, tories bankers, lawyers, doctors, "diaperheads", yankies and southerners. Rather like you and your illlk. Japs?? they jus so proud they couldn't stand the nanjingers rejection. And those 3.2 MILLION Viet Namese men women and children your boys managed to "free" to be the actual dirt you speak of. Naw SP, you're ignorant and prejudiced, probably sadomaso and no doubt passive-agressive, too much time in mind prison learning about the way the gears mesh, stunted finer feelings, becoming worse by trying to be "better". > In China, the individual is worth no more than the dirt he or she walks > on. > Rather like the first americans, niggers, phillepinoes, gooks, geeks ( > remember Columbine Shenzen?), Irish, Germans, Jews, Spics Witches,... Read: Stillwell's book" 'The American Experience in China'. Have to know a bit of History for it to make sense, but it will show you what I mean. The End of The End SP SignatureFinally: take out the TRASHH I've read alot of books and a great deal more, including Hegel on China. One may cherry pick ones info to support almost any position on anything, including the relig fanatics, those Americans who decapitate and roast their children to drive the demons out. And alot of right and left critiques of the USA ( especially if we look at the "special economic condition" of it, all that real estate, mineral wealth which addicted USAers to stupidity and insanity... ) I also know what it takes for various kinds of society to exist. It is only natural for people to emphasize what seems ( or which they can make seem ) unusual. Webby, Dr Steve, Your posts are noted, perhaps in general you are right, but in this thread I have seen strong evidence to contradict that proposition, and little to support it. Still, noted. Vaughn, enjoy being ambiguaous? amphibolic? Not much to make of your post so...Bye, till we meet again. > In China, the individual is worth no more than the dirt he or she walks > on. > Rather like the first americans, nig.... Plonk Bye Vaughn I found a little info on the implant cost issue, I was figuring them in the $400-500 range, but no, they're available for $120 or less with propriatary costs. Plonk again. Vaughn Please excuse V, he's abit autistic and was picked upon as a child... >Path: news.easynews.com!en206!core-easynews!newsfeed2.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail >From: "wblakesx" <wblakesx@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >Please excuse V, he's abit autistic and was picked upon as a child... Please excuse Blake, he sux. Evident in his addy. >From: "wblakesx" <wblakesx@yahoo.com> He just forgot to type the 'u'. Here is his real addy: wblakesux@yahoodlum.com He is wishing that it was an Emaj7 -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >becoming worse by >trying to be "better". Self description suits you. Blake you left out the undeniable fact that you are a complete and utter dork. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >Sorry to be so hard on you poor people "blind to the simple laws of >life". > >Since I seem to have attracted some dental catepillars, how much do you >charge for a simple extraction? If it was *simple* anyone could do it. >How long does it take? It takes as long as it takes. >And since some >choose highbrow rude and others low: How much does dinner with the wife >cost, and her new dress? Where is Mark Tarka when you need him. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com |
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