Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / June 2005
What happened to Joel Eichen?
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James E. - 07 Jun 2005 04:56 GMT I have been visiting this NG from time to time, over several years. This is the first time that I did not see and appreciate Joel's ubiquitous posts? What happened to him?
 Signature James
carabelli - 07 Jun 2005 05:43 GMT >I have been visiting this NG from time to time, over several years. This is >the first time that I did not see and appreciate Joel's ubiquitous posts? >What happened to him? Well a few weeks ago, a certain someone complained to one of the redirecting newsgroup feeds ( forgive my ignorance) or whatever he used to maintain anonymity as to his real internet addy. He has posted since, but stopped again. A year, or maybe more, ago he disappeared for at least six months and like the phoenix..........
I'm certain we have not heard the last from him. He may have seemed almost dependant upon Usenet, however based on some private communications, the man has more that enough to keep him busy if he chooses.
carabelli
LadyLollipop - 07 Jun 2005 06:44 GMT >I have been visiting this NG from time to time, over several years. This is >the first time that I did not see and appreciate Joel's ubiquitous posts? >What happened to him? He must have finally learned his lesson after the third time of having his account closed for telling lies and using my name, over 20,000 times.
After having two closed, one for impersonating me, he found an Italian one, where he thought he was untouchable, and began with the same old lies. I warned him, he laughed it off. It was closed also, based on his words.
He did come back on, but stated, it appeared the days of talking about me appeared to be over, or something to that effect he hasn't been back since.
Of course, to hear others tell it, this is A OK,as the lies weren't told about them, nor their name wasn't used.
I also had mercury poisoning and still have peripheral neuropathy, which seems to be very funny to most of the dentists here who would like to deny it can and does happen.
You may have appreciated what you call his ubiquitous posts, I call them, blatherings.
LL/Jan
oN - 07 Jun 2005 09:01 GMT > I also had mercury poisoning and still have peripheral neuropathy, which > seems to be very funny to most of the dentists here who would like to deny > it can and does happen. Welcome to the club!
I survived bombardment on easier way. Do you taking some homeopathy also?
I am in swimingpull twice/week and on macrobiotics. Have you to suggest something else??
All the best, Proka
Happy Oyster - 09 Jun 2005 17:42 GMT >>I have been visiting this NG from time to time, over several years. This is >>the first time that I did not see and appreciate Joel's ubiquitous posts? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >LL/Jan Jan Drew, one of the most criminal liars in the whole usenet, complains about his name being abused ? And now uses the pseudonym "LadyLollipop".
What a madness...
Aribert Deckers
 Signature Farbiges Röntgen, farbiges CT und farbiges MRT http://www.ariplex.com/hws/hws_farb.htm
oN - 07 Jun 2005 08:56 GMT > I have been visiting this NG from time to time, over several years. This is > the first time that I did not see and appreciate Joel's ubiquitous posts? > What happened to him? > > -- > James Just listening some Jethro Tull somewhere. "Stand up" or something like that :)
Proka
W_B - 07 Jun 2005 16:57 GMT >I have been visiting this NG from time to time, over several years. This is >the first time that I did not see and appreciate Joel's ubiquitous posts? >What happened to him? He left about the same time that Jan did.
Curious that. --
W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
kureforcrohns@sbcglobal.net - 08 Jun 2005 02:24 GMT Adjustments are part of life, and hope this is possible with Jan and Joel. He has so much to offer.
Gail
LadyLollipop - 08 Jun 2005 08:01 GMT > Adjustments are part of life, and hope this is possible with Jan and Joel. > He has so much to offer. > > Gail He has blatherings, and tons of lies.
LL/Jan
Robert Morien - 08 Jun 2005 10:19 GMT > > Adjustments are part of life, and hope this is possible with Jan and Joel. > > He has so much to offer. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > LL/Jan nothing worse than a sore winner
Sdores - 08 Jun 2005 12:49 GMT I'm sorry but collecting everything Joel ever posted, and some of the numbers you turned in was from reposting his post, and turning it into to have him removed is wrong. With the stuff you post you are not one to say who is blathering and lying. You were wrong to do it and you are wrong to brag about it like some kind of prize. You said some nasty things to Joel and others, so how would you feel if everyone collected all your posts and started filing complaints to patrol the groups? IMO you are totally wrong. UM MOM Susan
>> Adjustments are part of life, and hope this is possible with Jan and >> Joel. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > LL/Jan LadyLollipop - 09 Jun 2005 08:35 GMT > I'm sorry but collecting everything Joel ever posted, and some of the > numbers you turned in was from reposting his post, and turning it into to > have him removed is wrong. It most certainly was not. He has used my name over 20,000 times ans most of those post were REPEATED lies.
He is the one who was WRONG.
With the stuff you post you are not one to say
> who is blathering and lying NO Comparsion.
I do not use others names constantly with repeated lies.
Such as Jan Brewski on Anal Sex
I do not impersonate others.
You were wrong to do it
Joel was judged on his own words.
and you are wrong to
> brag about it like some kind of prize. I haven't.
You said some nasty things to Joel
> and others, I have defended myself.
so how would you feel if everyone collected all your posts and
> started filing complaints to patrol the groups? I have not one thing to be ashamed of.
IMO you are totally wrong.
> UM MOM Susan Your opinion is screwed.
People who respect themselves view selfishness, loss of self-discipline, recklessness, cowardice and dishonesty as wrong and unworthy of them. They have inner strength and are unwilling to let others use or manipulate them. They know that showing patience or tolerance does not mean allowing others to mistreat them.
LL/Jan
>>> Adjustments are part of life, and hope this is possible with Jan and >>> Joel. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> LL/Jan carabelli - 09 Jun 2005 13:23 GMT > I'm sorry but collecting everything Joel ever posted, and some of the > numbers you turned in was from reposting his post, and turning it into to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > started filing complaints to patrol the groups? IMO you are totally wrong. > UM MOM Susan Joel is savvy enough about NNTP he could have been back on line in minutes. He simply chose not to,
carabelli
Dr Steve - 09 Jun 2005 13:39 GMT Or, changed his on-line "handle".
 Signature ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen [What's a Temporary?], D.D.S. Michigan, USA ....................................................
This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ......................
> >> I'm sorry but collecting everything Joel ever posted, and some of the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > carabelli StovePipe - 10 Jun 2005 04:20 GMT > Or, changed his on-line "handle". He'd have to change his whole personality. SP
 Signature Finally: take out the TRASHH
Dr. Steve - 10 Jun 2005 13:44 GMT >> Or, changed his on-line "handle". > >He'd have to change his whole personality. >SP Don't underestimate the man. .. Stephen Troy, Michigan, USA
I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting.
kureforcrohns@sbcglobal.net - 08 Jun 2005 13:51 GMT Jan, Regardless or in spite of "all the blatherings and lies", still hope this can be resolved. We have all made mistakes, but it is hard to keep a grudge forever. To an extent, I can empathize with you as I have been killfiled, called insane and much worse for my very unpopular theory which I believe without recognition, we are headed down a disastrous road far worse than mercury as it looms larger. Counting would be impossible, as I can only get to 120, getting to 22,000 would be staggering, and that is only a beginning. Joel has 35 years of experience, so he should be able to use his knowledge for the benefit of many, and perhaps stop accenting Jan.
Gail
LadyLollipop - 09 Jun 2005 08:43 GMT > Jan, > Regardless or in spite of "all the blatherings and lies", still hope this > can be resolved. I have tried that over and over and over.
We have all made mistakes, but it is hard to keep a
> grudge forever. I'm not holding a grudge. Joel do not learn from his mistakes. In fact, I warned him and gave him a chance, he laughed at it.
> To an extent, I can empathize with you as I have been killfiled, called > insane and much worse for my very unpopular theory which I believe without [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Gail Joel 35 years of experience and he hasn't learned a thing.
You do know what Hans the dentist from Sweden said to him.
He is a blatant liar. Even the other dentists here have tired of his nonsense.
He finds an article, then he adds my name to it.
He repeats the same thing over and over.
Here is what Hans said to him and Dr Steve at the end.
There is NO excuse for this. ==== I hope most open-minded people will view Joel's attempts to characterise the PHS report as proving that amalgams are safe, as a gross misrepresentation of the facts. People who rely on professionals to know their stuff, deserve better.
Hi Judge Joel,
You are representing the most prejudicial attitude I saw in a long time. Did you get that from being a judge during the witch- processes in a former life, or what?
Either you are grossly misinformed or you are intentionally spreading blatant lies.
Hans ===== Dear Dr. Eichen,
>> It's unfortunate that you don't have anything more constructive to do >> with your life other than amusing yourself and your colleague dentists [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> and pregnant women.... these countries are banning the use of mercury >> amalgams. Refer your colleagues to WWW.TOXICTEETH.ORG, WWW.TESTFOUNDATION.ORG,
>> WWW.IAOMT.ORG, http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/indexa.html, >> and give them the studies which show that dentists have the highest >> rate of suicide professionaly in this country. >> >> I suggest you keep up with the significant news of the day.....or are >> you still reading comic books. ===
To everyone who do not understand why Joel wants to make a complete fool out of himself,
Wrong again ! Show me where I ever used the word "tweezers" !
If you cannot support your repeated allegations I can only conclude you made a pretty big fool out of yourself - again !
Cheers, Hans
Joel M. Eichen wrote:
>The readers will decide! Indeed ! The fun part is that this is all about your mind - what you thought that I said. Sofar you have not been able to point out anything, in spite of all your re-postings, to support what you claim I said. And I'm still waiting!
Hans
Joel M. Eichen wrote:
>At least we settled ... I've been settling fine all along. I am waiting for you to prove that your allegations are right. Or to watch you trying to wiggle your way of this. So Joel, which one will it be?
Joel wrote:
>Hans said Dentatus should be inserted, preferably with tweezers Hans replied:
>Not with one word did I reveal how I work with the Dentatus. Not >one single word! Neither did I mention the word "tweezers" ! Still waiting ....
Hans
Joel M. Eichen wrote:
>Funny. Hans turning the circumstance around . . . . That was a nice attempt to wiggle. What's next?
Sill waiting for you to prove that your allegations are right.
Or to keep on watching you wiggle until you smoke yourself.
Which one is next? Smoke or standard smokescreen?
Hans
Everything else here is Joel's attempts to make a huge smokescreen so no one will spot him in his attempts to pry his foot out of his mouth. Thats all there is
>Nelson wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >>don't have to read it. >>Other comments in text: Subject: Re: Outta here for awhile From: "Dr. Steve" smancus.takeout@home.msen.com Date: 3/18/03 10:17 PM US Eastern Standard Time Message-id: <v7fo43feqokq88@corp.supernews.com>
See Joel???
Your constant ridiculous cross posting of stuff no one but you is interested in has driven more people off this forum. Before long. it will be just the Eichen cross posting news.
kureforcrohns@sbcglobal.net - 09 Jun 2005 19:34 GMT Still unclear ------ Is amalgam banned in the U.S.
Gail
carabelli - 10 Jun 2005 01:19 GMT > Still unclear ------ Is amalgam banned in the U.S. > > Gail Surely you can't be serious.
carabelli
StovePipe - 10 Jun 2005 04:20 GMT > Still unclear ------ Is amalgam banned in the U.S. > > Gail NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! SP
 Signature Finally: take out the TRASHH
kureforcrohns@sbcglobal.net - 10 Jun 2005 17:01 GMT The reason I ask if amalgam is banned in the U.S. is Hans passionate disapproval of them and said Norway and Sweden will be banning them. Banning is a clear message that it is harmful, but leaving it to the discretion of the dentist means it is controversial at worst. These days asking a dentist to place an amalgam is like asking for assisted suicide by the dentist's reaction.
Gail
LadyLollipop - 10 Jun 2005 17:14 GMT > The reason I ask if amalgam is banned in the U.S. is Hans passionate > disapproval of them and said Norway and Sweden will be banning them. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Gail You have every right to ask that, and you didn't get a straight answer.
I will repost what I have posted previously, which created a uproar with some 430 posts of mostly personal slamming as usual.
With full bans soon to follow.
Mercury is being eliminated in *ALL* forms.
Ohio news conference continues momentum. In front of several TV cameras, Representative Annie Key announces bill to ban mercury fillings for Ohio children and pregnant women, making Ohio the 8th state to have such a bill.
State legislators across USA renew efforts against mercury fillings. Assemblyman Dick Dickerson (R-Calif.) introduced a resolution against the FDAregulation (see (3), below). Representative Johnny Rogers (D-Ala.) promisesmajor action in 2003, as do Rep. Bob Holmes (D-Ga.), Reps. Karen Johnson &Debra Brimhall (R-Ariz.), and Rep. Mary Flowers (D-Ill.) Sen. Mike Michaud(D-Me.) and Rep. Hal Lynde (R-N.H.) passed their bills this year.
Dental Board Committee Chair Yokoyama proposes California recommend nomercury fillings for children, pregnant women. The president of the new California dental board, Dr. Alan Kay, appointed Dr.Chet Yokoyama, a mercury-free dentist, to chair a committee to write a consumer-friendly
"fact sheet" about the risks of mercury fillings. At the August meeting in San Francisco, Dr. Yokoyama proposed that the Board recommend that children and pregnant women not receive mercury fillings. He will hold hearings on this issue in November in Los Angeles.
NAACP national conference endorses ban for children, pregnant women. In a historic breakthrough, the annual convention of delegates of one of our
nation's oldest and most respected organizations endorsed the Watson-Burtonbill, and called for a ban on mercury fillings for children, pregnant women,and nursing mothers. Meanwhile, standing up to huge pressure from organized dentistry, the National Black Caucus of State Legislators stood firm on its resolution supporting Watson-Burton. To witness the leadership byAfrican-American organizations in pointing the way - certainly something we have seen before in our recent history - is gratifying indeed.
Maine's Bill LD1409 "An Act To Address The Health Effects of MercuryFillings" will be formally signed on Thursday, August 23rd at 11:00 a.m. atthe Governor's office in Aususta Maine. The bill will require dentists toprovide patients with a brochure and to post a sign in the waiting room explaining that amalgams contain mercury and the health risks involved.
It's being agrued in Florida also.
The New Hampshire Legislature passed one of the strongest bills so far, HB 1251
AN ACT relative to the use of mercury amalgam fillings by dentists.
This bill requires dentists and the department of health and human services to provide health information on restorative dental materials, and requires the department of environmental services to adopt rules for the disposal of
mercury amalgam waste in an environmentally-appropriate manner.
New York Assemblyman Richard Brodsky (D-Westchester) introduced a broad-sweeping bill
which, if enacted, would alter the practice of dentistry in New York State. The
legislation (A.4209), known as the Comprehensive Management of Waste Mercury
Act of 2001, would also ban thermometers, fluorescent lights and other products
that contain mercury, in what the sponsor says is an effort to cut the amount of mercury
entering sewers, landfills and incinerators. Amalgam dental fillings have been found to be a major source of mercury in sewers from human waste in household and office
sewer systems, and thermometers, thermostats, and fluorescent lights are major sources
entering landfills. A Senate version of the bill is expected to be introduced by
Senator Michael Balboni (R/C-Nassau).
Measures similar to A.4209 are being considered in Connecticut, Maine, Florida,
Maryland, Massachusetts, Maine, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Oregon
and Rhode Island, and indeed, the bill is modeled on a law Vermont passed in 1998.
http://www.toxicteeth.net
LL/Jan
clintonz@prodigy.net - 10 Jun 2005 22:28 GMT > The reason I ask if amalgam is banned in the U.S. is Hans passionate > disapproval of them and said Norway and Sweden will be banning them. > Banning is a clear message that it is harmful, but leaving it to the > discretion of the dentist means it is controversial at worst. Why be concerned with what anyone says. Best to read the research yourself. the truth is that only one person makes policy. that is the pubic. the public has decided because "most" people dont appear to suffer "obvious" effects from amalgam that amalgam is safe, and the general public is not capable of making theoretical statistical or physical analyisis of amalgam stability/effects.
Keep in mind that in recent memory the use of DDT, cigarette smoking and radioactive medical treatments where all very popular with the US public. Slavery was also enthusiastically endorsed by the US public a mere 200 years ago. No one in the goverment or regualtory agencies ever lifted a finger to correct these wrongs for very long periods of time.
Politicians are elected by the public and influence appointments and funding at federal agencies. Dental and Medical Boards likewise are political appointments which thrive or fail based on what the public wants.
Amalgam will be banned, just as the above wrongs where eventually corrected, but it will take much longer than it should because of the ignorance of the public and the fact that, previously there has been no financial incentive for dental organizations to ban it.
And you can be sure that if people woke up tommorrow and said that even if amalgam wasn't the largest source of Hg they still didn't want ANY additional Hg exposure from amalgam, it would be banned immediately.
Steven Bornfeld - 10 Jun 2005 22:34 GMT > The reason I ask if amalgam is banned in the U.S. is Hans passionate > disapproval of them and said Norway and Sweden will be banning them. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Gail No it's not. By the same token, you don't think all clinical regulations are based on nothing but good clinical research, do you? Explain to my why it is illegal in most states to ask a patient for their HIV status, but also unethical for a practitioner to NOT disclose HIV status to a patient?
Steve
 Signature Cut the nonsense to reply
clintonz@prodigy.net - 11 Jun 2005 03:02 GMT > > The reason I ask if amalgam is banned in the U.S. is Hans passionate > > disapproval of them and said Norway and Sweden will be banning them. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Explain to my why it is illegal in most states to ask a >patient for their HIV status, but also unethical for a >practitioner to NOT disclose HIV status to a patient? I agree that this is not necessarily fair, but there are probably some good reasons for it.
1 is that someone can choose to practice dentistry or not and is aware of the risks. Patients have no choice, they need dental care.
2 is that every HIV patient exposes one dentist, but every dentist exposes 1000's of patients.
3 is that the dentist is in control of the environment and by using precautions can minimize risk since it is in their best interests and also has to worry about many other disease such as hepatitis C whereas a patient has no control over exposure from a careless dentist (who after all is dying anyway and could care less about regulations)
4 Aids from what I research can even very early on influence the mental state of the practicioner because certain types of infections can reach the brain. And a dentist with Aids is under a lot of stress and in a state of desparation. This means a dentist with Aids is far more likely to be giving substandard care.
5 Patients with HIv would lie anyway, while dentists health histories can be documented more easily.
6 Another reason is that a dentist with Aids is more likely to have friends with Aids and treat them at their dental clinic where the water lines can be containated with any kind of fungal/bacterial infection. Should patients have to recieve exposure at a dental clinic with a large thoughput of Aids patients?
Steven Bornfeld - 11 Jun 2005 03:31 GMT >>>The reason I ask if amalgam is banned in the U.S. is Hans passionate >>>disapproval of them and said Norway and Sweden will be banning them. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > is aware of the risks. Patients have no choice, they need > dental care. The point is moot; many HIV positive patients do not know. The law is an a.s; here is why: We are told to practice universal precautions. No dentist believes that universal precautions will protect them 100% of the time; however, they will protect a patient far better than they will the dentist.
> 2 is that every HIV patient exposes one dentist, but every > dentist exposes 1000's of patients. Transmission of HIV is through percutaneous transfer of bodily fluids. How often is a patient exposed to a dentist's bodily fluids? How often is a dentist exposed to a patient's?
> 3 is that the dentist is in control of the environment and > by using precautions can minimize risk since it is in > their best interests and also has to worry about many other disease > such as hepatitis C whereas a patient has no control > over exposure from a careless dentist (who after all > is dying anyway and could care less about regulations) The dentist is obligated by law to practice universal precautions. If a dentist is so unethical as to not follow universal precautions, how likely do you think it is that a dentist will reveal his HIV status?
> 4 Aids from what I research can even very early on influence > the mental state of the practicioner because certain types > of infections can reach the brain. And a dentist with Aids is > under a lot of stress and in a state of desparation. This means a > dentist with Aids is far more likely to be giving substandard care. A dentist who is incompetent should not be providing care, regardless of the cause of the incompetency.
> 5 Patients with HIv would lie anyway, while dentists health histories > can be documented more easily. How is that? HIV is legally defined as a disability, not an infectious disease. Theoretically there could be mandatory reporting of positive HIV tests to the state dental boards. AFAIK, there is no tracking of HIV tests by occupation, and for obvious reasons this is extremely unlikely to occur.
> 6 Another reason is that a dentist with Aids is more likely > to have friends with Aids and treat them at their dental > clinic where the water lines can be containated with any > kind of fungal/bacterial infection. Should patients have > to recieve exposure at a dental clinic with a large thoughput > of Aids patients? Universal precautions either work or they do not. There was talk early in the AIDS epidemic of patients avoiding dentists in neighborhoods with high gay populations. Fortunately, at least in New York, this hysteria has passed.
Steve
 Signature Cut the nonsense to reply
clintonz@prodigy.net - 11 Jun 2005 05:36 GMT > Transmission of HIV is through percutaneous transfer of bodily fluids. > How often is a patient exposed to a dentist's bodily fluids? How > often is a dentist exposed to a patient's? What I'm saying is that the dentist could be sloppy if they wished. Suppose they spit on the drill (not that that would spread hiv). Maybe the dentist would have to be cut for a realistic chance of exposure, but the paitient cannot control the cirumstances if the dentist is HIV positive, whreas the dentist can always maximize their protection. I'm sure most patients would choose not to go to an HIV positive dentist because who wants to be in a situation where an HIV positive individual can act unethically. When I was in school taking a psychology course the teacher actually told the class that and HIV positive patient had confided to them (during a psychology session) that in that building they would actually contaminate one bathroom sink because they where mad about having HIV. He never used any bathroom in the building again.
In such a case that a dentist does have HIV, insurance and disability should cover the dentist for the damage done to thier career so this is not about discrimmating against the dentist. Also why would you want to practice dentistry with only 5 -15 years to live? .
> The dentist is obligated by law to practice universal precautions. If > a dentist is so unethical as to not follow universal precautions, how > likely do you think it is that a dentist will reveal his HIV status? As you said, following universal precautions is no guarantee of protection, from Aids, Hep C ,or poor dentistry, especially if the QUALITY of dentistry declines.
I was actually thinking along the lines of mandatory testing. But if they know their family can be sued later they may be more likely to be reveal HIV status than you may think. That is a very interesting question becase as you know in my case the dentist attempted to hide this fact by moving out of state.
> A dentist who is incompetent should not be providing care, regardless > of the cause of the incompetency. I think in many situations it is difficult for people to realize their performance is suffering, and a dentist is their own boss. I also suspect that a dentist with Aids would be more uncomfortable doing certian procedures if they felt the chance of getting cut was greater. They may also be more inclined to take shortcuts. This is kind of where the dental profession creates its own problems becuse they fight hard to prevent any kind of regulation whatsoever on either office machine standards or dentist performance. Pilots with known risk factors simply cannot fly. Dentistry is surgery , not to mention the hazardous materials used in dentistry requiring careful attention to technical detail. It is also important for the dentist to demand quality work from assistants. Kind of difficult in an environment where they might feel guilty about hiding HiV.
Overall dentistry is a poor environment for someone with a known condition which can very early on lead to mild/significant dementia, loss of physical endurance and changes in surgical comfort level and ability to control the office to practice.
In fact the denitst could even go crazy from Aids related dementia. My dentist actually eventually had to be locked out of the practice.
> > 5 Patients with HIv would lie anyway, while dentists health histories > > can be documented more easily. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > HIV tests to the state dental boards. AFAIK, there is no tracking of > HIV tests by occupation, I think most members of the public would agree that surgeons and dentists should face mandatory testing for Aids even though this is not current pubic policy. Why should professional and high school atheles be tested for certain substances when they hurt no one except themselves, but a patient and children who faces some measureable risk have no protection? If someone has an office job or works in contruction I agree that there is no reason to test for HIV but out of thousands of occupations, surgeon(not doctor), dentist and air traffic controller are three professions where testing should be done.
.
> > 6 Another reason is that a dentist with Aids is more likely > > to have friends with Aids and treat them at their dental [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Universal precautions either work or they do not. There was talk early > in the AIDS epidemic of patients avoiding dentists in To be honest I'm not familar with the effectiveness of certain dental sanitary practices or what types of infections are or are not likely to be associated with Aids. I remember the 20/20 segment where they showed persistant contamination of the water lines in most dental offices from previous patients so it is reasonable for me as a patient who developed complex jaw probelems and had a dentist with Aids to wonder about the connection (although as I said I believe the amalgam installation, is actually the cause of the problem which is why I made the first point about the quality of dentistry).
If it turns out, for example that certain types of staphs (especiically resistant ones) can contaminate the lines that would worry me and any member of the public who says that would not concern them at all is being idealistic and a "good citizen" but probably not too honest.
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 11 Jun 2005 14:11 GMT >> Transmission of HIV is through percutaneous transfer of bodily fluids. >> How often is a patient exposed to a dentist's bodily fluids? How [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > not about discrimmating against the dentist. Also why would you want to > practice dentistry with only 5 -15 years to live? Clinton--
I know you have had difficulties with a particular dentist, and I'm not looking to pick a fight with you. There are clearly situations where dentists should be ruled incompetent to practice. I am not equipped to argue the merits of privacy for HIV testing, though public health officials clearly feel that they want to encourage testing as widely as possible, and making this voluntary and private is the way to promote that in a free society. Surely mandatory testing could be done, but a little thought on that tells me that this would have ramifications far beyond the HIV issue. There is (for example) no mandatory drug testing for dentists. There is however, for certain classes of employees. So the legalities are quite beyond me. What I was trying to point out is the hypocrisy in application of existing laws, rather than the merits of regulation per se.
Steve
> . > [quoted text clipped - 83 lines] > member of the public who says that would not concern them at all is > being idealistic and a "good citizen" but probably not too honest.
 Signature Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001
clintonz@prodigy.net - 11 Jun 2005 22:04 GMT Clinton--
> I know you have had difficulties with a particular dentist, and I'm not > looking to pick a fight with you. > There are clearly situations where dentists should be ruled incompetent > to practice. I am not equipped to argue the merits of privacy for HIV I realize that. However I think other people on the list may be interested to know, because it came as a surprise to me, that there is a specific condition associated with Aids called AIDs dementia complex. (ADC). Here is a link on it.
http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite?page=kb-04-01-03#S5X
Clinical Presentation of (ADC)
Although the severity and relative prominence of some symptoms and signs compared to others may vary among individual patients, the general character of ADC involves three functional categories: cognition, motor performance, and behavior.(5) Table 2 provides an outline of some of the early and late manifestations. Of the three categories, cognitive and motor dysfunction are the most helpful in characterizing patients and in defining diagnosis; it is for this reason that they provide the basis of ADC Staging, which omits behavioral criteria. When approaching diagnosis, it is useful to separately consider milder and more severe affliction.
Stage 0.5 and 1 ADC
Cognitive impairment usually underlies patients' earliest symptoms. Mildly afflicted patients most often have difficulty attending to more complex tasks at work or at home. They need to make lists, sometimes very detailed, of the day's activities. They lose track of actions (e.g., leave the water boiling, get up to go to another room and then forget why they did so) or of conversations in mid-sentence ("What was I saying?"). Processing unrelated or complex thoughts becomes slower and less facile. While similar lapses can trouble many normal people especially in the face of fatigue or generalized illness, lapses in ADC patients intrude on daily function to a greater degree. Multi-staged tasks become difficult; e.g., the waiter can no longer keep verbal orders straight when he arrives at the kitchen or the avid reader needs to reread paragraphs or pages. When such dysfunction is mild, it may be difficult to substantiate the basis for these complaints by bedside examination, and it is important to apply tests that are sensitive to these abnormalities, including particularly tests requiring concentration, change of sets, and timed performance. Because it was constructed for other conditions, the standard Mini-Mental Status(22) may not be sufficiently sensitive at this point; however, when ADC patients do perform abnormally, it is usually on reversals (reversing a five-letter word like "world," or subtracting from 100 by 7's), complex sequential tasks (placing the right thumb on the left ear and sticking out the tongue), or remembering three objects.
Although motor symptoms are far less common during this early phase, individuals relying on rapid or fine coordination may note a change. For example, the guitarist may no longer be able to keep up with a difficult piece or the athlete may be slowed to below a competitive level. An inquiring history may discover a change in handwriting or, less commonly, clumsiness in tying shoes or buttoning a shirt. Moreover, even in those without overt symptoms, motor signs may be detected on examination, including slowing of attempts at rapid opposition of the thumb and forefinger, rotation of the wrist, or tapping of the toe. While the gait may be generally steady, it is often slow, and rapid turns may be interrupted by an extra step or performed hesitantly. Reflexes are also often abnormal. The deep tendon stretch reflexes, including importantly the jaw jerk, are frequently hyperactive, although the ankle jerks may be relatively less active when there is concomitant polyneuropathy. Babinski signs may be present and other "pathologic" release signs may also be detected; of these, the snout response is relatively frequent and particularly helpful when present in young patients.
The time course and onset of milder ADC is variable. It may begin insidiously or abruptly and progress more rapidly to a higher stage, or it may continue to evolve slowly or even remain static for some period. In patients with mild ADC, missed diagnosis usually results from overlooking the important aspects of the history. Functional difficulties may erroneously be considered as a "normal" part of systemic illness by patients and their caregivers despite the fact that most AIDS patients without neurologic conditions perform quite normally, even in the late stage of HIV-1 infection. Particularly important is the distinction of ADC from clinical depression, which can produce similar complaints but carries distinct therapeutic implications (see Chapter 5.15). Hypochondriasis and anxiety in those understandably worried about body function may also lead to similar complaints.
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Interestingly , they say that it can be difficult to diagnose in early stages and preceeds decline in motor function and probably overall health, although fine motor function and complex motor tasking, such as used in dentistry and undoubteldy required for a good amalgam product and surgical outcome, can decline substantially without overall motor symptoms obviously declining. So for some subset of Aids patients, an early and substantial decline in work performance/abilities do occur. Very interesting indeed.
StovePipe - 11 Jun 2005 06:55 GMT > The reason I ask if amalgam is banned in the U.S. is Hans passionate > disapproval of them and said Norway and Sweden will be banning them. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Gail No, non und nein, silly kureforbaldness _er_ kureforcolds _er_ kureformolds _er_ kureforcronies _er_ kureforcrazies _er_ kureforscones _er_ kureforcrohns
It is just that the militant anti-Am ass-wipes have gotten their mitts into the politically cowardly kiss-a.ses, and got them to listen to unreason. Cheers SP
 Signature Finally: take out the TRASHH
kureforcrohns@sbcglobal.net - 11 Jun 2005 18:15 GMT Yesterday. Actually running out of words, but the Kure remains. Dont put much stock in horoscopes but this one hit me. words always circulating in my mind. "You can't help identifying with your beliefs today (and every day). You feel very fervently about something.--perhaps religious, political or philosophical. (Actually a saviour of manmade illnesses) YOU THINK OTHERS SHOULD KNOW WHAT YOU KNOW. ( never a truer word have I said repeatedly to myself.) You feel like Paul Revere. "One if by land, two if by sea" History escapes me totally. What did Paul Revere do?
What is the Kure for doubters.
> No, non und nein, silly kureforbaldness Transplant > _er_ [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > _er_ > kureforcronies Let them undergo the surgeons knife and lose their kishkes (my doctors words) if they prefer that to a liittle effort to relate
> _er_ > kureforcrazies (no remedy, still in that category.) > _er_ > kureforscones Bring them on, delicious > _er_ > kureforcrohns Dr. Burrill Crohn should have been cloned. Will replacing the amalgams cure all of the above, Desperation is setting in. What is NNTP (that Joel is aware of)
Gail
StovePipe - 11 Jun 2005 19:59 GMT > Will replacing the amalgams cure all of the above, Desperation is setting > in. > What is NNTP (that Joel is aware of) > > Gail Replacing Am, in all likelyhood, will not improve any situation, save for a very select few patients.
See: http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&Acronym=NNTP&Find =Find
NNTP Network News Transfer Protocol (RFC 977)
Now you know. SP
 Signature Finally: take out the TRASHH
Sdores - 11 Jun 2005 15:52 GMT Joel isn't here because a person saves peoples posts sometimes for years and then when mad at them goes to the ISP and gets rid of them. Joel had a different kind of humor,yes but he didn't deserve to be kicked out of a dental group by a non-dentist who has said some worse things. UM MOM Susan, Jewish Jan be careful
StovePipe - 11 Jun 2005 19:59 GMT > Joel isn't here because a person saves peoples posts sometimes for years and > then when mad at them goes to the ISP and gets rid of them. Joel had a > different kind of humor,yes but he didn't deserve to be kicked out of a > dental group by a non-dentist who has said some worse things. UM MOM Susan, > Jewish Jan be careful Very well said, Susan SP
 Signature Finally: take out the TRASHH
LadyLollipop - 11 Jun 2005 21:51 GMT >> Joel isn't here because a person saves peoples posts sometimes for years >> and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Very well said, Susan > SP Oh yeah EXCEPT IT IS ALL ONE BIG LIE
> Finally: take out the TRASHH Sdores - 11 Jun 2005 21:59 GMT Oh shut up already! Not everyone in the world is a liar except you. You have told some doosies. I do not feel well so please just leave me alone. UM MOM Susan
>>> Joel isn't here because a person saves peoples posts sometimes for years >>> and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >> Finally: take out the TRASHH LadyLollipop - 11 Jun 2005 21:50 GMT > Joel isn't here because a person saves peoples posts sometimes for years > and then when mad at them goes to the ISP and gets rid of them. W R O N G. No need to save them, just do a search using Joel's name.
Then when mad, Susan, Susan, Susan. Joel impersonated me. That means when people do a search using my addy, thay aslo see Joel's posts, they do not look to see the difference between the aol.com and the yahoo.com.
Do you not understand impersonation is a serious matter? It is against ALL ISP rules. Check and see what it is in real life.
Joel had a different kind of humor,yes but he didn't deserve to be kicked out of a
> dental group by a non-dentist who has said some worse things. Joel has posted over 20,000 posts using my name, most ALL of them were LIES.
UM MOM Susan,
> Jewish Jan be careful Ummmm. That's what you should have told Joel, except, you can drop the Jewish, that is completely irrelevant.
It's a real pity, you can't put yourself in other peoples' shoes.
Is it possible for you to imagine how you would feel, if it happened to you?
Now, let us hear no more about this, this is the last time, I am going to be nice to you. I am tired of your blaming the wrong person.
Got that?
Be careful!
Jan
Sdores - 11 Jun 2005 22:04 GMT Making threats now? Being Jewish does have a place with you, remember I have seen the Google backgrounds of what you have said about Jews. Go for it lady, I have done nothing but be polite and I am done with it. Give it your best shot. I am not some child who is going to listen to the bully. Do a Jan Google, along with your other ID's and see how many posts you have made slamming others. UM MOM Susan
>> Joel isn't here because a person saves peoples posts sometimes for years >> and then when mad at them goes to the ISP and gets rid of them. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Jan LadyLollipop - 11 Jun 2005 23:21 GMT Susan,
I am sorry you aren't feeling well. I understand that completely. I didn't make a threat. Being Jewish, is totally irrelevant. I do not hate Jews as you have read on MHA.
Best not to talk while you aren't feeling well.
Feel better soon.
My prayers are coming your way.
Sincerely,
Jan
> Making threats now? Being Jewish does have a place with you, remember I > have seen the Google backgrounds of what you have said about Jews. Go for [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >> >> Jan Sdores - 11 Jun 2005 23:27 GMT Thanks you, UM MOM Susan
> Susan, > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] >>> >>> Jan spondee@cox.net - 10 Jun 2005 22:33 GMT >I have been visiting this NG from time to time, over several years. This is >the first time that I did not see and appreciate Joel's ubiquitous posts? >What happened to him? Actually, I was wondering the same...
Happy Oyster - 11 Jun 2005 15:43 GMT >I have been visiting this NG from time to time, over several years. This is >the first time that I did not see and appreciate Joel's ubiquitous posts? >What happened to him? Purrhaps he
- is on vacation with Renate Ratlos and his other girl friends ?
- is opening an anti-amalgam dentist office ?
- got addicted to a new taste of Haagen Dazys' ?
- was convicted by his wife to iron the laundry ?
- writes his biography, enjoying life in a hotel in San Molar, Switzerland ?
- still reads http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_rr20.htm
By the way : Does anyone know what happened to Renate Ratlos ... ???
Ahemm, this is the last material I received from her :
http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_rr20.htm
By Jove, more than 1500... !
Regards,
Aribert Deckers
 Signature Was jeder Kinderarzt ins Wartezimmer hängen sollte:
http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_im10.htm
clintonz@prodigy.net - 11 Jun 2005 22:23 GMT > >I have been visiting this NG from time to time, over several years. This is > >the first time that I did not see and appreciate Joel's ubiquitous posts? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > - writes his biography, enjoying life in a hotel in San Molar, Switzerland ? Has sworn of all modern technology and is now living with the Amish.
Happy Oyster - 13 Jun 2005 22:08 GMT >> >What happened to him? >> >> Purrhaps he [...]
>Has sworn of all modern technology and is now living with >the Amish. Now, if he lives there as a dentist, WOW!, that would be fine ... using all the old type drillers...
And, according to Carlo Hoskins, God must have some sense of humour...
What a cozy little office... :
http://www.heritagefarmmuseum.com/images/mus_dentist_office.jpg
And here's something for Steven Bornfeld (isn't it him, who, according to our great chronologist RR, "that day" did not buy a guitar...?)
http://www.heritagefarmmuseum.com/images/mus_washboards.jpg
Regards,
Aribert Deckers
PS : http://www.mtn.org/quack/devices/devindx.htm http://waring.library.musc.edu/macaulay.html http://www.cityofhills.nl/1800-1900%20fotos.htm http://www.carolyar.com/Illinois/1900/13.htm
 Signature Was jeder Kinderarzt ins Wartezimmer hängen sollte:
http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_im10.htm
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