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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / May 2005

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Cracked tooth?

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james - 03 May 2005 07:27 GMT
My dentist believes i may have a crack in one of my teeth.  Its been
impossible to put any pressure on the tooth ever since getting a
filling,  was a large filling as nearly half of my tooth seemed to
have gone missing.  I dont know the names of teeth but its on the
lower right of my jaw about 5 along, or second last not including the
wisdom tooth.   Its painfull mostly when the pressure is released and
only if the pressure is placed on the filling side of the tooth.
Thing is ive just had a second attempt to fix it, seemingly by
removing however much filling and redoing it, im not really sure
though as i forgot to ask.  Is it the way to go to just keep
attempting filling after filling?  He isnt charging me for it, but its
still a tad painfull to go through each time.
There is a question i thought i would ask about it,  is it possible in
some way for a nerve to be kind of cought in some way between the
filling and the tooth,  thats what it fills like it is to me.  It only
takes decent finger pressure to cause pain but if i had to imagine
what was happening i picture it like a nerve being stuck down the
bottom between filling and tooth but i have no idea if this is even
possible.  Would be thankfull for any advice.
Its not sensitive to hot or cold.
Dr Steve - 03 May 2005 12:30 GMT
NO way to tell from here, but sure sounds like a cracked tooth.  These
usually get treated to a full dose of sunshine on the roots.  [sarcastic way
of saying an extraction].

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

> My dentist believes i may have a crack in one of my teeth.  Its been
> impossible to put any pressure on the tooth ever since getting a
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> possible.  Would be thankfull for any advice.
> Its not sensitive to hot or cold.
Steven Fawks - 03 May 2005 16:17 GMT
> NO way to tell from here, but sure sounds like a cracked tooth.  These
> usually get treated to a full dose of sunshine on the roots.  [sarcastic way
> of saying an extraction].

Ten or fifteen years ago, a tooth like this would probably be treated
with a root canal and a crown.  This will *probably* save the tooth
for a number of years (5-25 depending on how severe the fracture).

Now, with the advent of single tooth implants, it could be argued that
the best choice is to quit 'attempting' treatment on a problem tooth.
An extraction and subsequent implant is a reliable long term alternative
and may actually be more cost effective in the long run.

Fawks
The Real Paul - 03 May 2005 14:22 GMT
It does sound like 'cracked tooth syndrome'. The sign for this is pain on
release of pressure. Usually it is one specific spot that gives the symptom.
The least you probably will need is a crown on the tooth to hold the pieces
along the crack from flexing when you bite. Its the movement along the crack
that creates the pain when the bite is released.
Left alone, the crack may progress into the nerve and cause you to need
root canal treatment on your tooth in addition to the crown.

> My dentist believes i may have a crack in one of my teeth.  Its been
> impossible to put any pressure on the tooth ever since getting a
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> possible.  Would be thankfull for any advice.
> Its not sensitive to hot or cold.
james - 03 May 2005 14:52 GMT
Ok ove just been looking up info on cracked tooth syndrome.  Just read
this part "Cracked tooth syndrome is a very common problem that
affects teeth that have large fillings in them.  Decay and large
fillings causes a weakening in the remaining tooth structure over
time."

It says over time but can it happen immediately  after the filling is
done or during it?  The pain on release of pressure on the tooth only
began when he had done the filling and i first noticed it about an
hour after it was done which is when i first tried to eat after the
numbing stuff had worn off.   So is it possible for the tooth to crack
while the filling is being done?  There was zero pain in the tooth
before the filling.

>It does sound like 'cracked tooth syndrome'. The sign for this is pain on
>release of pressure. Usually it is one specific spot that gives the symptom.
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>> possible.  Would be thankfull for any advice.
>> Its not sensitive to hot or cold.
Dr Steve - 03 May 2005 15:05 GMT
People crack teeth by clenching forcibly while sleeping and trying to move
their jaw side to side.  No body weakens a tooth be eating on it.  No one
breaks a tooth while getting a filling (unless it was ready to let go biting
the next hard boiled egg).  IF you are a hard clencher, you probably have
progressively weakened the tooth over a period of years.  As the damage
became greater, the filling started to break up as you were flexing the two
sides of the tooth apart.  The pain just happened to be chronologically
next.

I tend to type postings quickly between appointments.  Speak up if this is
confusing.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

> Ok ove just been looking up info on cracked tooth syndrome.  Just read
> this part "Cracked tooth syndrome is a very common problem that
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>>> possible.  Would be thankfull for any advice.
>>> Its not sensitive to hot or cold.
james - 03 May 2005 16:13 GMT
Sorry to take up your time.  I appreciate it.
Ill say exactly what happened, it may point to something else going
on.  The tooth, which is second last on the bottom  row was fine, no
fillings or anything.  One day i was eating and suddenly found it very
crunchy, looked in the mirror and it was like someone has cut the
tooth clean in half right down to the gum and taken the half side
closest to the back tooth.  It was actually fine to eat with, no
problems at all except for food getting stuck in the large gap that
was now between my teeth.  So went to the dentist and he fixed it up,
it was only an hour after this that i noticed the pain on release of
pressure because thats when i first tried to eat as the numbness had
worn off.  Which is why i was wondering if the filling had made my
tooth crack or if something else could be going on.  On the  bite test
the only part that causes pain is if the pressure is put on the side
of the tooth that is just filling.  Pressure on the actual tooth half
doesnt cause any pain or discomfort.

>People crack teeth by clenching forcibly while sleeping and trying to move
>their jaw side to side.  No body weakens a tooth be eating on it.  No one
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>I tend to type postings quickly between appointments.  Speak up if this is
>confusing.
The Real Paul - 03 May 2005 16:20 GMT
It would be possible to develop a crack during treatment, or the first time
you used the new filling. If the remaining tooth structure was weakened
enough, then a crack can form. I see many cracks under old amalgam fillings
that give no symptoms at all. But when a procedure is done on these teeth it
is sometimes 'the last straw' and the tooth starts to give the patient
symptoms. Its a necessary treatment to crown the cracked tooth because the
possibility of the crack to enter the nerve area and require a root canal
but it can make the tooth a bit angry for a while.
It is ultimately up to you. Do you trust the dentist you are seeing? You can
wait and see if it calms down but you may be risking getting into root canal
territory unecessarily.

In your first post you stated it only takes finger pressure for it to hurt.
It hurts when you push on the tooth? Does it only hurt when the pressure is
taken off the tooth or also when you are pushing or applying biting force?
You may already need the root canal.

> Ok ove just been looking up info on cracked tooth syndrome.  Just read
> this part "Cracked tooth syndrome is a very common problem that
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> >> possible.  Would be thankfull for any advice.
> >> Its not sensitive to hot or cold.
james - 03 May 2005 16:48 GMT
>It would be possible to develop a crack during treatment, or the first time
>you used the new filling. If the remaining tooth structure was weakened
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>taken off the tooth or also when you are pushing or applying biting force?
>You may already need the root canal.

It takes a fair bit of finger pressure and its more in the disconfort
zone rather than full on pain that way.  Biting pressure is when its
extremely painfull.    The pain is only felt on release.  I can put
any pressure down on it and not feel anything but the moment i release
it it just kills.  Also the pain only happens on the filling area, i
can put pressure on the actual tooth part and dont feel a thing,
W_B - 03 May 2005 17:06 GMT
>Also the pain only happens on the filling area, i
>can put pressure on the actual tooth part and dont feel a thing,

Get the dentist to check the bite and adjust if necessary.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dr Steve - 03 May 2005 18:33 GMT
And, expect a diagnosis of cracked tooth.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
>>Also the pain only happens on the filling area, i
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Take out the G'RBAGE
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dr Steve - 03 May 2005 18:32 GMT
But the whole point is that the damage is being done slowly over a period of
years due to parafunctional habits.  The filling then fails prematurely due
to the parafucntional stresses placed on the cusps of the tooth.  The tooth
gets restored and then begins to hurt.  It would have begun to hurt if the
tooth was not restored at this point.  It is simply the next chronological
step.  Once you understand what parafunction does to teeth, it becomes
obvious. The crack was already there before the filling was done.  The pain
started because the crack then propagated that tiny bit further (probably
due to more parafunctional activity).  Or, else the pulp was already in
irreversible pulpitis and the excess pressure was able to escape through the
broken filling.  Restore the tooth with a good tight seal and the pressure
has no vent--PAIN.

You do not cause damage to a tooth by eating, talking, having a filling done
(unless it is being done by a monkey), etc.  You damage teeth through caries
or parafunctional activity or trauma.  Eating, dentistry, etc, will only
advance the problem a step if it is ready to go anyway.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

> It would be possible to develop a crack during treatment, or the first
> time
[quoted text clipped - 66 lines]
>> >> possible.  Would be thankfull for any advice.
>> >> Its not sensitive to hot or cold.
james - 03 May 2005 19:16 GMT
Ahh im getting a better understanding of how it all works now.  Thanks
for taking the time to explain it.

>But the whole point is that the damage is being done slowly over a period of
>years due to parafunctional habits.  The filling then fails prematurely due
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>or parafunctional activity or trauma.  Eating, dentistry, etc, will only
>advance the problem a step if it is ready to go anyway.
W_B - 03 May 2005 16:11 GMT
> It only
>takes decent finger pressure to cause pain but if i had to imagine
>what was happening i picture it like a nerve being stuck down the
>bottom between filling and tooth but i have no idea if this is even
>possible.  
No it's not possible.

>Would be thankfull for any advice.
>Its not sensitive to hot or cold.

You definitely have a fractured tooth based on
your description.

Onlay or crown, RCT may be in the future for this tooth.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
StovePipe - 04 May 2005 03:25 GMT
> > It only
> >takes decent finger pressure to cause pain but if i had to imagine
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> >Would be thankfull for any advice.
> >Its not sensitive to hot or cold.

W_B <no_one@nowhere.net> wrote:>

> You definitely have a fractured tooth based on
> your description.
>
> Onlay or crown, RCT may be in the future for this tooth.

How come nobody is mentioning what may happen to the periodontium if
this crack progresses? I would think that is one of the worst dangers of
not getting the crack reinforced with a crown right NOW, or if that
doesn't completely do the job. I would say he should be fitted with an
ortho band  and re-fill the tooth with Fuji 9 and see if it settles
down. If it does, proceed to RCT and reinforcing crown. The caveat
empror is that the crack may still progress and undermine the bony
attachment causing a vertical pocket.

I would say it is well to remember that this is a lower first molar with
(as yet) good bone support. Why did it break? Probably clenching.
Therefore, his other teeth are at as much risk as this one, and probably
the lower left first molar is at heightened risk, as the forces shift
over there by reflex. Therefore, James needs protection for the
remaining dentition:

===============>James needs an NTI<===================

Some of you just _may_ have heard of this little device.   ;-)

So, I would say this:

1) Ortho band and NTI right away.

if symotoms abate:

2) RCT, crown (I would make an all gold, SM would do a CEREC w/o glaze.
3) Frequent recall for the periodontal response, and if pocketing or
unexplained inflammation ensues, get the tooth OUT.

4) Which could mean, I *think*, that we are in an implant situation
in... what? Five or ten years?

So the choice is whether or not James wants to halt investment in this
tooth now or later.

I don't suppose anybody else would consider using a Stainless Steel
Crown cemented with Fuji 9 as a temporary measure? I might try that as a
reinforcement for the Endo, which in my own humble hands, would surely
take more than one appointment.

Thank You

<The Pipe puts his lollypop back in his mouth>
SP
Signature

Finally: take out the TRASHH

Dr Steve - 04 May 2005 14:59 GMT
> I don't suppose anybody else would consider using a Stainless Steel
> Crown cemented with Fuji 9 as a temporary measure? I might try that as a
> reinforcement for the Endo, which in my own humble hands, would surely
> take more than one appointment.

I have done that many times.
StovePipe - 04 May 2005 17:29 GMT
> > I don't suppose anybody else would consider using a Stainless Steel
> > Crown cemented with Fuji 9 as a temporary measure? I might try that as a
> > reinforcement for the Endo, which in my own humble hands, would surely
> > take more than one appointment.
>
> I have done that many times.

But you wouldn't have cemented it on with Fuji 9. What would you have
used? Duralon?

Thanks
SP
Signature

Finally: take out the TRASHH

Dr. Steve - 04 May 2005 22:22 GMT
>> > I don't suppose anybody else would consider using a Stainless Steel
>> > Crown cemented with Fuji 9 as a temporary measure? I might try that as a
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Thanks
>SP

Anything at all. Tenacin, FUG, ARC+, unicem,  IRM, etc.
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting.
 
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