Marc,

I agree. Your ad at DentalTown was one of the best-crafted ad campaigns I
had seen over there. By all acounts, you guys run a top-notch firm. I have
posted your website and your contact information elsewhere in the hopes of
directing some buying traffic to you.

I imagine that Howard is a bit past his field of expertise what with 135,000
copies of DentalTown going out every single month, and a very limited
interest value for the magazine.

A couple of hundred internet chatters will not do the trick for him.

Joel

Joel M. Eichen DDS

     Joel344
     View Public Profile
     Send a private message to Joel344
     Send email to Joel344
     Find all posts by Joel344
     Add Joel344 to Your Buddy List
       #16       Today, 12:23 PM
           MFKontrast
           Member   Join Date: Apr 2005
           Posts: 1

      Dentaltown... one big mean gate.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

     In my dealings with dentaltown, I can see that HF originally began
with a great and idealistic production... But as with anything... the larger
it gets, the harder it becomes to control. HF was stuck between a rock and a
hard place yes, but in an idealistic world, Farran could have stuck up for
his new advertiser and still kept his relationships with his other sponsers.
If Dentaltown is supposed to be this great "uniter" then why would they just
ban Paul and his opinions.

     Many times I've watched Paul extend the olive branch to the big
spenders of DT, offering samples of products and the like... and instead of
"uniting" the townies by atleast trying to make the peace... Paul was
labeled a 'putz' and thrown to the curb.

     Further attempts to get behind the townies hasn't proved beneficial to
us, as those who just "follow the leader" (those docter's with HF branded
wallets...)have attempted to label us, without giving us the chance to prove
ourselves. It would seem dentaltown is just a big gloomy gate where those
who aren't in the know, aren't let in.

     Bestbuydental has with it many fantastic dentists, and in the coming
months, we plan on taking those ideals of uniting a community to help
itself, as well as others... and taking it to a next step. No banning, no
anger, and no elitists.

     Marc Fishman
     Marketing Director for Chicago Dental/Best Buy Dental

     MFKontrast
     View Public Profile
     Send a private message to MFKontrast
     Find all posts by MFKontrast
     Add MFKontrast to Your Buddy List

       #15       Today, 11:03 AM
          ambergambler
           Member   Join Date: Oct 2004
           Posts: 120

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

     Didn't even realize that was you, LOL

     ambergambler
     View Public Profile
     Send a private message to ambergambler
     Send email to ambergambler
     Find all posts by ambergambler
     Add ambergambler to Your Buddy List

       #14       Today, 10:23 AM
           Sue
           Member   Join Date: Oct 2004
           Posts: 2,132

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

     Quote:
           Originally Posted by ambergambler
           No, not at all. The point I was trying to make is that a small
gang of playground bullies delight in needling "outsiders" - why put
yourself through that? If there's anyone you'd really like to communicate
with, it should be easy enough to get hold of their e-mail addresses.

           The thread isn't actually about sonicare, but rather about how
stupid posters are for suggesting that patients may not always be totally
and utterly stupid...

     Actually Amber,

     I did not take it that way at all. Seriously.  I came into that thread
looking for a friendly banter with Mike Barr. I really like and respect Mike
Barr. What for? For following his vision. He is not a bully.. he is one of
those with a healthy ego. Sure he focuses on cosmetics, but MANY, MANY
people are looking for that. Some people really think they need these sorts
of improvements in order to feel good about themselves. Mike provides this
and he really enjoys what he does. His patients are thrilled. I give him
credit.

     I was kind of trying ot egg on a friendly banter.

     The other stuff whihc came out later .... comments about STUPID
patients... oh well. I made my point about that. I did not feel in any way
that others were telling me I was STUPID though. They were trying to explain
their postition. I do understand that it must be very frustrating with some
patients.

     So I weakened my stance in order to NOT perpetuate an argument.. I
think I got my point across nevertheless. It is not worth a big battle!!
Often people process messages later (not publicly). It is better to let them
win in public... they think about it later (well at least sometimes).

     I did not feel offended in the least. I really did not. It gave me an
opportunity to clear some things up with a few people. Unfortunately I think
I may have hosed my relationship with Mike Barr though.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Last edited by Sue : Today at 10:29 AM.

     Sue
     View Public Profile
     Send a private message to Sue
     Send email to Sue
     Find all posts by Sue
     Add Sue to Your Buddy List

       #13       Today, 10:01 AM
          ambergambler
           Member   Join Date: Oct 2004
           Posts: 120

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

     Quote:
           Originally Posted by Sue
           Amber....

           Have you been dis-invited to participate there? Just curious.

     No, not at all. The point I was trying to make is that a small gang of
playground bullies delight in needling "outsiders" - why put yourself
through that? If there's anyone you'd really like to communicate with, it
should be easy enough to get hold of their e-mail addresses.

     Quote:
           Originally Posted by Sue
           RE: sonicare.. Actually I am a believer. I personally think this
investment is worth every penny. I did not own one until I could afford it.
Yet now that I have one I will never go back to manual only.

     The thread isn't actually about sonicare, but rather about how stupid
posters are for suggesting that patients may not always be totally and
utterly stupid...

     ambergambler
     View Public Profile
     Send a private message to ambergambler
     Send email to ambergambler
     Find all posts by ambergambler
     Add ambergambler to Your Buddy List

       #12       Today, 09:35 AM
           Sue
           Member   Join Date: Oct 2004
           Posts: 2,132

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

     Quote:
           Originally Posted by billkatz
           About the grey market.

           Dentists have to pay some pretty steep premiums when it comes
down to it. I've sent some clients to places like Best Buy Dental and the
response has always been one of reservation. IMO, the hesitation has little
to do with the reputation of the mail order dealer, or the assumption of
lesser quality. The hesitation I've seen has a lot to do with the
relationship with their local vendor and the concern of the possibility that
this local vendor will give them "lesser service" on their critical needs
materials and equipment. In other words, "If I buy from a mail order house
will my local supplier respond as quickly to service my handpieces and
autoclaves?"

           The dental supply chain has always been a pretty closed market
with a lot of nepotism and "turf". Make no bones about it; some sales reps
WILL use coercion and I know a few 'experts' in the field. This doesn't help
the dentist at all and downstream it doesn't do a whole lot of good for the
patient's wallet either. Competition will rule the market and competition
will eventually help everyone out.

           Don't change a thing

     ~bump. Good words of wisdom Bill!

     Sue
     View Public Profile
     Send a private message to Sue
     Send email to Sue
     Find all posts by Sue
     Add Sue to Your Buddy List

       #11       Today, 09:29 AM
           Sue
           Member   Join Date: Oct 2004
           Posts: 2,132

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

     Paul,

     I realize this makes me look weak. I do second guess myself a lot.
However I realize that the truth is almost always buried somewhere inbetween
everyone's own selfish interests.

     I believe that Dental town is more than a cash cow for HF. I believe
that HF started DT with the greatest of intentions to help the dental
community.

     It takes money to build and maintain a resource like DT. We do not
understand what it takes to do this. If HF makes money from this, don't you
think he deserves it? He is providing a resource that allows dentists to
interact and help one another with technical issues, shoot the breeze, have
some fun and just make some friends. There are other avenues that dentists
can take for this.. but many prefer DT!!

     Look at the stuff DT provides...CE, meetings, and products to help
dentists. cash credit, etc.

     Like with any group.. the strong voices take over. Those with high
egos generally take over. A healthy ego is a good thing.. but sometimes
bullying occurs when healthy egos disagree.

     Whatever DT has become on the discussion boards is due to the members
there.. not HF.

     There are some bullies, there are some healthy egos, there are some
weaker people like me. Most are good people who have unflattering moments
just like anybody else. Often in a group, people can get very obnoxious.
That is what happens. It has grown so large over there that they have had to
set some controls.

     Paul, FYI, Howard is dealing with a lot right now that may have
affected his quick decision to block you.

     I honestly believe that DT is not just a cash cow for HF.. those are
not the primary intentions. The intentions were to develop a comfortable
community where dentists could congregate. Like I said.. the discussion
themselves are controlled by the members.. not HF... well except for a few
extraneous and unexplained deletions (and I am not talking about the "I"
word etc.). Even so, we cannot automatically assume the worst.

     Since these sorts of accusations "cash cow" and advertising biases
etc. are occurring, I really wish that THEY (the Dentaltown spokespeople..
their marketeers or whatever) would just speak to these sorts of accusations
and dispell any myths.

     Stand-up take charge. Stand up for their the reputation .. in ways
other than just calling us all wackos and lunatics .... That is NOT a very
credible way of displaying what you are truly all about

     Sue
     View Public Profile
     Send a private message to Sue
     Send email to Sue
     Find all posts by Sue
     Add Sue to Your Buddy List

       #10       Today, 09:15 AM
          billkatz
           Member   Join Date: Nov 2004
           Posts: 289

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

     About the grey market.

     Dentists have to pay some pretty steep premiums when it comes down to
it. I've sent some clients to places like Best Buy Dental and the response
has always been one of reservation. IMO, the hesitation has little to do
with the reputation of the mail order dealer, or the assumption of lesser
quality. The hesitation I've seen has a lot to do with the relationship with
their local vendor and the concern of the possibility that this local vendor
will give them "lesser service" on their critical needs materials and
equipment. In other words, "If I buy from a mail order house will my local
supplier respond as quickly to service my handpieces and autoclaves?"

     The dental supply chain has always been a pretty closed market with a
lot of nepotism and "turf". Make no bones about it; some sales reps WILL use
coercion and I know a few 'experts' in the field. This doesn't help the
dentist at all and downstream it doesn't do a whole lot of good for the
patient's wallet either. Competition will rule the market and competition
will eventually help everyone out.

     Don't change a thing

     billkatz
     View Public Profile
     Send a private message to billkatz
     Send email to billkatz
     Find all posts by billkatz
     Add billkatz to Your Buddy List

       #9       Today, 08:49 AM
           roadkill
           Member   Join Date: Mar 2005
           Posts: 3

      Sue

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

     Sue, who knows why they do what they did and do what they do. Dont
take it so hard! Stop putting yourself down. You are constantly second
guessing if you are right or wrong. It makes you look weak and confused. Sue
you are not weak and you are seeing things very clearly. Stay strong and put
your energies towards good causes. The dentaltown board is mostly full of
dentists pushing themselves and their interests on others than stroking each
other. Its a cash cow for Howard Farran. Call it what it is and move on.

     roadkill
     View Public Profile
     Send a private message to roadkill
     Send email to roadkill
     Find all posts by roadkill
     Add roadkill to Your Buddy List

       #8       Today, 08:38 AM
           Sue
           Member   Join Date: Oct 2004
           Posts: 2,132

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

     Amber....

     Have you been dis-invited to participate there? Just curious.

     RE: sonicare.. Actually I am a believer. I personally think this
investment is worth every penny. I did not own one until I could afford it.

Yet now that I have one I will never go back to manual only.

     Sue
     View Public Profile
     Send a private message to Sue
     Send email to Sue
     Find all posts by Sue
     Add Sue to Your Buddy List

       #7       Today, 06:46 AM
           Sue
           Member   Join Date: Oct 2004
           Posts: 2,132

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

     Quote:
           Originally Posted by ambergambler
           Dunno why you'd want to be associated with stuff like
http://www.dentaltown.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=48938&sessionID={EE7EC2F6
-67C6-4A87-9891-3FA325B67636}
           (that's the sonicare thread in cosmetic dentistry)

           Why bother

     Actually for me there were several people who were concerned about
patient access issues, they just did not openly voice them on the forum
because the forum is meant mainly for business purposes (to help dentists
with their businesses). Once I was banned, these people dropped like
flies... only a few people of substance stuck by me. I guess I was hoping to
redeem some of my old contacts .. let them know that I was still around or
something. Or maybe I am just crazy.

     ************************************************** *****

     Anyway I can undertsand now why I, Joel, and Flap were banned (if they
are truly banned). I can piece some reasons together and our part in that. I
posted way too much meaningless crap and annoyed the Hell out of some
people...Joel deeply offended somebody in power and would not stop picking
on this person (shame shame joelY!), and Flap started a new BBS where he
could openly "bash" DT (I get your point about freedom of speech Flap... but
maybe you be banned for that one?)

     Now out of all of us.. it is really Paul Meyers who got the REAL
shaft. He was invited by HF to participate after spending $15,000 to place
an ad in DT mag. Some A-holes (anonymous posters) immediately ragged on him
just for being there. Yet in spite of that, Paul won over a lot of posters..
he even impressed HF's DA with his kindness and she wanted to buy from best
dental. He may have made a mistake in announcing this on DT... thus
inferring that HF was sponsoring bestdental.. Then HF was caught between a
rock and a hard place because some of his sponsors threatened to to pull
out. Paul gets bannished.

     So I think that Paul was innocent.. maybe naive (but as ANYBODY would
be) about what other sponsors might do to HF if he announced his order with
HF's DA on the boards. That was all... but he has a right to be there on DT.
He is a customer of HF's just like any other advertiser in HF's mag. So it
really sucks for Paul.

     Personally I do not undertsand these business practices. I would like
to help Paul if I can.

     ************************************************** ****

     SHOOT I am bringing up politics again. Let's don't get into stupid
politics... Good guy, bad guy. Sometimes people just do what they think they
must do to save their own business and others inadvertantly get hurt. It is
human instinct and that is how people survive in business, I guess.

     How are ways that we can help Paul get back into good graces with
HF... or with his business? I don't think HF was thinking too clearly as to
what effect bannishment may have on Paul's business and reputation.

     Now I must ask... am I thinking clearly?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Last edited by Sue : Today at 06:58 AM.

     Sue
     View Public Profile
     Send a private message to Sue
     Send email to Sue
     Find all posts by Sue
     Add Sue to Your Buddy List

       #6       Yesterday, 08:39 PM
          ambergambler
           Member   Join Date: Oct 2004
           Posts: 120

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

     Dunno why you'd want to be associated with stuff like
http://www.dentaltown.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=48938&sessionID={EE7EC2F6
-67C6-4A87-9891-3FA325B67636}
     (that's the sonicare thread in cosmetic dentistry)

     Why bother

     ambergambler
     View Public Profile
     Send a private message to ambergambler
     Send email to ambergambler
     Find all posts by ambergambler
     Add ambergambler to Your Buddy List

       #5       Yesterday, 11:53 AM
           Sue
           Member   Join Date: Oct 2004
           Posts: 2,132

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

     Well you guys, I am officially banned from there... so it may not be
Joel that they are trying to block. It may be me. They may not want me
starting new threads there.

     I got pretty crazy with posting too much while I was welcomed there.
Maybe they are just trying to keep me regulated a bit.

     I should not have posted this publicly becuase now it will only start
more politics.

     There are still hurt feelings on both sides. It will subside if we let
it. I really think the politics are based more upon emotions than rational
thoughts.

     Let's just let the politics die and let everyone come back to their
senses.

     Continuing to fight only breeds more resentment.

     I am honestly trying to be rational about all of this, instead of
emotional. We have to look at oursleves too.. we cannot blame one side for
everything.

     Seriously. Try to see their side too.

     And I must clarify... I only tried to start one thread. I cannot say
for sure if they delete everything I try to start.. but face it, I am not
supposed ot be there anyway. They are doing me a favor just by allowing me
to post right now, so I am grateful for that.

     I hope my attitude does not upset anyone here. There are some good
people over there too. I would like to be able to associate with both groups
and not have to worry about picking sides.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Last edited by Sue : Yesterday at 11:58 AM.

     Sue
     View Public Profile
     Send a private message to Sue
     Send email to Sue
     Find all posts by Sue
     Add Sue to Your Buddy List

       #4    Yesterday, 10:12 AM
          Joel344
           Member