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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / April 2005Supervisory Boards
Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go about finding a mailing address for an ethics board at the ADA? > Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a > manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go about > finding a mailing address for an ethics board at the ADA? If this is with regard to a specific dentist, call the local dental society. If you're in Brooklyn or Staten Island, that would be the Second District Dental Society--they're in the phone book. Steve  SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >> Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a >> manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go about [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Steve And what are the punitive possibilities? >>> Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a >>> manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go about [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > And what are the punitive possibilities? That is for the peer review board to decide. If the alleged infraction is a high fee for a root canal, or even scaring your wife, I don't think they'll be interested. What are we talking about here? Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >>>> Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a >>>> manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > don't think they'll be interested. > What are we talking about here? Mostly he was just scamming her. He insisted on doing the root canal in two seperate visits instead of in the normal one, and insisted that each visit charge be well over one thousand dollars - despite the fact that she was begging him (literally) to do it in one shot; she's deathly scared of dentists. He didn't even bother to give (or make up) a reason as to why it must be in two stages,even as she asked why, except insofar as "Because I like it that way." I saw her come out of his office, pale as a sheet, sweating, shaking from head to toe like she'd just been beaten stupid; there was no way this man could not have seen what she was going through. To disregard it, without even the slightest attempts at, at the least, courtesy... well, it's a pity that /something/ can't be done about him, even though I'm well aware that minor things like that are rather beyond the scope of any ADA ethics board. Truth be told, she's not going to have him punished in any great measure, and she knows it - but she wants to make him shake in his boots some, for being a quite literal sadist towards her. Being an attorney, she's quite used to clients busting her balls that way, though she doesn't deserve it. Frankly, this prick does. There's a certain callousness that should not be tolerated in any healthcare worker. You wrote, He insisted on doing the root canal in two seperate visits instead of in the normal one, REPLY In some states that is an offense that deserves jail time. Joel > >>>> Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a > >>>> manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Frankly, this prick does. There's a certain callousness that should not > be tolerated in any healthcare worker. > You wrote, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Joel Your sarcasm in this instance is both unneccasary and inappropriate, Joel. Your snarkiness is only appropriate taking the statement completely out of context; which isn't especially helpful to anyone. >>>>>>Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a >>>>>>manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >>Frankly, this prick does. There's a certain callousness that should not >>be tolerated in any healthcare worker. > > You wrote, > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Joel. Your snarkiness is only appropriate taking the statement > completely out of context; which isn't especially helpful to anyone. REPLY No seriously, if the patient demands it be done in one visit, who would I be to worry about how much the jaw might swell up! OR HURT LIKE HELL ... no wonder your wife is scared to death! Get a decent dentist and let him/her fly the plane! You guys are very misguided. Joel > >>>>>>Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a > >>>>>>manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > >>Frankly, this prick does. There's a certain callousness that should not > >>be tolerated in any healthcare worker. > > You wrote, > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Joel. Your snarkiness is only appropriate taking the statement > completely out of context; which isn't especially helpful to anyone. REPLY Its helpful to the other fools who think the same as you do ...... that the onlt concern is HOW FAST, how easy, how ....... ETC. My God, no wonder so many mistakes occur. Joel > >>>>>>Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a > >>>>>>manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > >>Frankly, this prick does. There's a certain callousness that should not > >>be tolerated in any healthcare worker. >>>You wrote, >>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Joel Seeing as how I've made it plenty clear in various posts in this thread that she is very scared of the procedure, very anxious around dentists, et al. the above statement rather seems to indicate that either A) You haven't read anything I've written save for the most cursory glance, or B) You're just aiming at becoming a troll. No I have read that you told us she hasn't seen the dentist yet (which was contradicted in another post) and secondly, you want to report the dentist to the Ethics Board for not doing the root canal in one visit. Is that correct so far? Joel > >>>You wrote, > >>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > haven't read anything I've written save for the most cursory glance, or > B) You're just aiming at becoming a troll. She most likely will get a crappy, smile-all, feel-good dentist who will take her money and run (in one visit) Three years later you may realize I was giving you good advice! Joel > >>>You wrote, > >>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > haven't read anything I've written save for the most cursory glance, or > B) You're just aiming at becoming a troll. Being an attorney, she's quite used to clients busting her balls that way, though she doesn't deserve it. REPLY OK, I guess he doesn't need the aggrevation! Choosing to perform a root canal intwo visits instead of one is grounds for ........ nothing. Heck, I wanted my attorney to march right off to Washington and petition the Supreme Court (in one visit) but my attorney said it does not work that way. Joel > >>>> Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a > >>>> manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Frankly, this prick does. There's a certain callousness that should not > be tolerated in any healthcare worker. > Mostly he was just scamming her. He insisted on doing the root canal in > two seperate visits instead of in the normal one, and insisted that each [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Frankly, this prick does. There's a certain callousness that should not > be tolerated in any healthcare worker. There are very valid clinical reasons for doing root canal therapy over two instead of one visit. While it may have been the patient's desire for things to get done as quickly as possible, that isn't always feasible. Sometimes rushing care can lead to more serious complications that could have led to far more than 2 visits. T Careful Tony ........ now you are an "accessory" to the crime! Joel > > > > Mostly he was just scamming her. He insisted on doing the root canal in [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > T > > > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > rushing care can lead to more serious complications that could have led to > far more than 2 visits. I can not especially picture that being the case in this instance - he had decided on the need for a two-stage operation without seeing her, or her records. >While it may have been the patient's desire for things >> to get done as quickly as possible, that isn't always feasible. Sometimes [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >had decided on the need for a two-stage operation without seeing her, or >her records. Funny, you gave the impression that the doctor saw the patient. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com W_B, > Funny, you gave the impression that the doctor saw the patient. > -- > > W_B CORRECT! The wife "came out of his office shaking" even though she never saw him! Oh boy. What a STORY! quote I saw her come out of his office, pale as a sheet, sweating, shaking from head to toe like she'd just been beaten stupid; there was no way this man could not have seen what she was going through. endquote Joel ***************************************************** Mostly he was just scamming her. He insisted on doing the root canal in two seperate visits instead of in the normal one, and insisted that each visit charge be well over one thousand dollars - despite the fact that she was begging him (literally) to do it in one shot; she's deathly scared of dentists. He didn't even bother to give (or make up) a reason as to why it must be in two stages,even as she asked why, except insofar as "Because I like it that way." I saw her come out of his office, pale as a sheet, sweating, shaking from head to toe like she'd just been beaten stupid; there was no way this man could not have seen what she was going through. To disregard it, without even the slightest attempts at, at the least, courtesy... well, it's a pity that /something/ can't be done about him, even though I'm well aware that minor things like that are rather beyond the scope of any ADA ethics board. Truth be told, she's not going to have him punished in any great measure, and she knows it - but she wants to make him shake in his boots some, for being a quite literal sadist towards her. Being an attorney, she's quite used to clients busting her balls that way, though she doesn't deserve it. Frankly, this prick does. There's a certain callousness that should not be tolerated in any healthcare worker. ************************************************************** > >While it may have been the patient's desire for things > >> to get done as quickly as possible, that isn't always feasible. Sometimes [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > W_B, > [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] >> >>Funny, you gave the impression that the doctor saw the patient. There is a difference between "conversation" and "examination". He never so much as looked in her mouth. Unless, of course, Joel - you are the sort of dentist that does his examination from the /outside/ of the patient's mouth? > There is a difference between "conversation" and "examination". He never > so much as looked in her mouth. > > Unless, of course, Joel - you are the sort of dentist that does his > examination from the /outside/ of the patient's mouth? REPLY Well there are some dentists doing their bleaching "ouside the mouth ...." so who knows where dentistry is headed! Joel >>While it may have been the patient's desire for things >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Funny, you gave the impression that the doctor saw the patient. I was unclear; I apologize. He saw her in the sense that they spoke; he did not, however, examine her mouth and teeth at any point. Seriously, have you considered someone who offers Conscious Sedation? We have thousands of dentists who do. Joel > >>While it may have been the patient's desire for things > >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I was unclear; I apologize. He saw her in the sense that they spoke; he > did not, however, examine her mouth and teeth at any point. >> Funny, you gave the impression that the doctor saw the patient. > >I was unclear; I apologize. He saw her in the sense that they spoke; he >did not, however, examine her mouth and teeth at any point. Was there a radiograph (x-ray) taken or available for the doc to see ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>>Funny, you gave the impression that the doctor saw the patient. >> >>I was unclear; I apologize. He saw her in the sense that they spoke; he >>did not, however, examine her mouth and teeth at any point. > > Was there a radiograph (x-ray) taken or available for the doc to see ? No, he did not yet take an X-Ray when they spoke. >> Was there a radiograph (x-ray) taken or available for the doc to see ? > >No, he did not yet take an X-Ray when they spoke. Was there a radiograph from another dentist brought with the patient ? If no radiograph, then who made the diagnosis and treatment recommendation for RCT ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>>Was there a radiograph (x-ray) taken or available for the doc to see ? >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If no radiograph, then who made the diagnosis and > treatment recommendation for RCT ? Her previous dentist said she'd need a root canal, but she did not bring the X-ray with her, as the ped. dent. in question said he'd take one himself. Giving his pricing practices, I presume this was in order to give him the opportunity to add another charge to the bill. >>> Was there a radiograph (x-ray) taken or available for the doc to see ? >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >If no radiograph, then who made the diagnosis and >treatment recommendation for RCT ? I love one appointment RCT, but if I get a patient as is described here, I would figure in 2-4 appts to be able to do a god job. .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting. >>>> Was there a radiograph (x-ray) taken or available for the doc to see ? >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting. god job ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > >>>Funny, you gave the impression that the doctor saw the patient. > >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > No, he did not yet take an X-Ray when they spoke. REPLY OK they "SPOKE" but he did not SEE her as in SEEING her right? Joel > >> Funny, you gave the impression that the doctor saw the patient. > > > >I was unclear; I apologize. He saw her in the sense that they spoke; he > >did not, however, examine her mouth and teeth at any point. > > Was there a radiograph (x-ray) taken or available for the doc to see ? REPLY The doc took the radiographs while standing in the lab ..... He tiptoed in blindfolded so he would not be accused to "SEEING" the patient. Joel > -- > > W_B > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com You mean she wasn't seen at all yet you said that she was scared to death by the appt and yelled at and now you say he didn't see her. Lord, you have wasted a lot of the nice peoples time here and a lot of bandwidth. You should be ashamed of yourself! UM MOM Susan > I can not especially picture that being the case in this instance - he had > decided on the need for a two-stage operation without seeing her, or her > records. > You mean she wasn't seen at all yet you said that she was scared to death by > the appt and yelled at and now you say he didn't see her. Lord, you have [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>decided on the need for a two-stage operation without seeing her, or her >>records. There are multiple meanings to the word "see." Of course, if you're looking for the worst possible interpretation, go for it. > > You mean she wasn't seen at all yet you said that she was scared to death by > > the appt and yelled at and now you say he didn't see her. Lord, you have [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > There are multiple meanings to the word "see." Of course, if you're > looking for the worst possible interpretation, go for it. REPLY Yeah Bill Clinton was telling us that ........ Joel "I was unclear; I apologize. He saw her in the sense that they spoke; he did not, however, examine her mouth and teeth at any point." Did you not just post this? UM MOM Susan > There are multiple meanings to the word "see." Of course, if you're > looking for the worst possible interpretation, go for it. > > There are very valid clinical reasons for doing root canal therapy over two > > instead of one visit. While it may have been the patient's desire for things [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > had decided on the need for a two-stage operation without seeing her, or > her records. I almost always do root canal therapy over two visits. I find I have less complications that way. Others handle things differently, but I don't think either way is more right or wrong. I don't want to sound uncaring, as I can hate seeing fearful patients treated in a way that makes their fears worse, but your two big complaints (as I read them) were about the care being spread over two visits and the cost. Didn't you know about both of these aspects of care ahead of time? and if so, why did you or your sister elect to seek care at this office? T Tony, His wife is his sister? That's a huge problem in my state. Joel In Kentucky its okay though. > > > There are very valid clinical reasons for doing root canal therapy over > two [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > T >Tony, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >In Kentucky its okay though. OK in Arkansas too. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > >Tony, > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > OK in Arkansas too. > -- Isn't that part of that guys "You know you are a redneck if..." routine? T >> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 06:08:32 -0400, "Joel M. Eichen" ><joeleichen@yahoo.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >T You go to the family reunion to meet chicks.... -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 06:08:32 -0400, "Joel M. Eichen" >><joeleichen@yahoo.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > W_B Too drunk to fish is my fav carabelli >>>Isn't that part of that guys "You know you are a redneck if..." routine? >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >carabelli Good one ! -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >Truth be told, she's not going to have him punished in any great >measure, and she knows it - but she wants to make him shake in his boots [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Frankly, this prick does. There's a certain callousness that should not >be tolerated in any healthcare worker. And the fact that she's an attorney doesn't enter into the equation in the slightest, right ? Go see an endodontist. www.aae.org -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>Truth be told, she's not going to have him punished in any great >>measure, and she knows it - but she wants to make him shake in his boots [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > And the fact that she's an attorney doesn't enter into the equation > in the slightest, right ? I believe the fact that she was shaking and ill when she walked out has a greater bearing on her reaction to the entire event than her status as an attorney. It's not as if she makes a habit of these things; she's a real estate attorney. She finishes up people's house purchases. >> And the fact that she's an attorney doesn't enter into the equation >> in the slightest, right ? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > an attorney. It's not as if she makes a habit of these things; she's a >real estate attorney. She finishes up people's house purchases. But in your previous posting you indicated: <clip> he had decided on the need for a two-stage operation without seeing her, or her records. </clip> So which is it ? Did the doctor see the patient or not ? Some people have such a fear of dentists that they can become physically ill, but what does that have to do with the price of eggs ? Anxiolytics are readily available and I do not hesitate to use them when indicated. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Advice To Wife/Attorney: Do not let the opposition get your husband on the stand. He is a terrible liar! Joel > >> And the fact that she's an attorney doesn't enter into the equation > >> in the slightest, right ? [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>>And the fact that she's an attorney doesn't enter into the equation >>>in the slightest, right ? [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Come on Counselor, I think this nice man is trying to help his sister--I'd do the same. I assume he assumes the dentist had told her at the outset that he did root canals in two visits. This may have been communicated initially, and he then treated the sister. Let's assume, can't we that his motives are sincere? Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > Come on Counselor, I think this nice man is trying to help his > sister--I'd do the same. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Steve I am not questioning the sincerity of the posters intentions, but am confused why the two issues that seem to be the cause of the most upset would seem to be things that were known before hand. I am also confused by the fact that it was indicated the patient saw a pediatric dentist, but she appears to be an adult. Perhaps it was an endodntist and not a pedodontist?? T >> I am not questioning the sincerity of the posters intentions, but am > confused why the two issues that seem to be the cause of the most upset [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > T Saw the clarification regarding the pedodontist question...sorry to write before reading the whole thing. T >>Come on Counselor, I think this nice man is trying to help his >>sister--I'd do the same. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > the fact that it was indicated the patient saw a pediatric dentist, but she > appears to be an adult. Perhaps it was an endodntist and not a pedodontist?? She was seeing a pediatric dentist because it was communicated to her that a pediatric dentist tends to have better bedside manner, pain killers, sedatives, et al; for how she responds to dentists, this was important. The man never treated her. She called him, he said he would see her. She came in; after being kept waiting for a while, and being informed by the secretary that the dentist would only do the procedure in two steps, and would charged exorbitant prices for them (unless anyone else around here charges a sum total of well over two thousand dollars for a root canal?). She then requested to see him repeatedly; when he finally came , he would offer no reason as to why he insisted on doing it in two steps (she was willing to pay the outrageous fees, even); he would offer no reason, and was fairly insensitive to her obvious anxiety. She never made it into the dental chair; he didn't see her X-rays, didn't examine her, certainly nothing on which a judgement could be made as to procedures that would be required particular to her condition. So, yes, when I say he saw her - I meant it. However, I did not mean to imply that he actually "saw" her in the sense that he examined her and so forth. He was quite set on what he was going to do before he got her into the chair. And... frankly, as I said, she's more concerned with busting his balls at this point than anything else. Not so much for anything beyond the fact that... well, if one had seen how she responds to the prospect of such things, to treat her the way he did would be difficult to rate as anything less than sadistic. Then again, perhaps for that aspect one must simply have "been there." Unless she is very very young this is the wrong dentist. Try someone who uses conscious sedation i ntheir practice. By the way, is this your wife or your sister? Joel > >>Come on Counselor, I think this nice man is trying to help his > >>sister--I'd do the same. [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Then again, perhaps for that aspect one must simply have "been there." > Unless she is very very young this is the wrong dentist. Try someone who > uses conscious sedation i ntheir practice. By the way, is this your wife or > your sister? > > Joel My sister, as I said in my original post. Question for the dentists, do pediatric dentist do pain meds or other meds prior to tending to a child? My son was scared to death to have his teeth tended to, esp. the wisdom teeth that came in and had to be removed and was told to see family physician for meds to get him through it because the family dr knew his history. This was done anytime he had to see the dentist. When he got old enough and the dentist knew him he would give him gas to help but no pain meds. UM MOM Susan > Question for the dentists, do pediatric dentist do pain meds or other meds > prior to tending to a child? BETTER! Anxiolysis. Joel >My son was scared to death to have his teeth > tended to, esp. the wisdom teeth that came in and had to be removed and was > told to see family physician for meds to get him through it because the > family dr knew his history. This was done anytime he had to see the > dentist. When he got old enough and the dentist knew him he would give him > gas to help but no pain meds. UM MOM Susan >She was seeing a pediatric dentist because it was communicated to her >that a pediatric dentist tends to have better bedside manner, pain >killers, sedatives, et al; for how she responds to dentists, this was >important. Someone gave the wrong impression/information. Pedo's do kids teeth, they don't routinely do RCT. Again, I urge you to contact an endodontist. www.aae.org -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>She was seeing a pediatric dentist because it was communicated to her >>that a pediatric dentist tends to have better bedside manner, pain [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > www.aae.org I agree. I wonder about the ethics of a pediatric dentist treating this patient at all. Steve > -- > > W_B > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com SignatureCut the nonsense to reply >> Someone gave the wrong impression/information. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Steve I would think that it is outside the scope of pediatric practice except in rare cases. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > >> Someone gave the wrong impression/information. > >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com REPLY Is the pedo dude the guy who SAW her but didn't SEE her? > >She was seeing a pediatric dentist because it was communicated to her > >that a pediatric dentist tends to have better bedside manner, pain [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Pedo's do kids teeth, they don't routinely do RCT. REPLY WHO YOU callin' a pedo? That can get you in trouble if you are in prison. Joel > Again, I urge you to contact an endodontist. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>>Come on Counselor, I think this nice man is trying to help his >>>sister--I'd do the same. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > >Then again, perhaps for that aspect one must simply have "been there." I doubt they could even make a case that she is a patient of record if the Doctor never did an exam or a diagnosis. I bet he doubled the price due to PITA factors. which is legal by the way. .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting. >>Come on Counselor, I think this nice man is trying to help his >>sister--I'd do the same. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > T Yeah, he explained this. I'd bet the problem in understanding this case has a lot to do with the fact that we're hearing a second-hand account (and we already know that the first-hand account was from a fearful patient). Steve SignatureCut the nonsense to reply Plus his wife and his sister now need root canal therapy. See what delaying treatment can produce? Joel > >>>And the fact that she's an attorney doesn't enter into the equation > >>>in the slightest, right ? [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > Brooklyn, NY > 718-258-5001 Though that he said it was his wife. > Let's assume, can't we that his motives are sincere? Um. well, in a word, no. >Steve -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>> Truth be told, she's not going to have him punished in any great >>> measure, and she knows it - but she wants to make him shake in his [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > an attorney. It's not as if she makes a habit of these things; she's a > real estate attorney. She finishes up people's house purchases. Uh oh. If you're in Brooklyn, there's a good chance my wife knows her--she sells real estate in Park Slope. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >>>> Truth be told, she's not going to have him punished in any great >>>> measure, and she knows it - but she wants to make him shake in his [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Steve My sister's office is on Coney Island Ave., last I recall. I haven't visited since she last changed offices. >>>>> Truth be told, she's not going to have him punished in any great >>>>> measure, and she knows it - but she wants to make him shake in his [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > My sister's office is on Coney Island Ave., last I recall. I haven't > visited since she last changed offices. Well, in that case I probably would know the pediatric dentist, but that's extremely unlikely to change my opinion of what went on. Steve SignatureCut the nonsense to reply >>>>> Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in >>>>> a manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Frankly, this prick does. There's a certain callousness that should not > be tolerated in any healthcare worker. I agree. What you describe is probably not actionable, but certainly insensitive. Did you say this was a pediatric dentist? Many (perhaps most) root canals can be completed in a single visit. However, this is relatively new thinking. And there are some that require more than one visit, although not being able to offer an explanation why is just wrong. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >>>>>> Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in >>>>>> a manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > require more than one visit, although not being able to offer an > explanation why is just wrong. He was a pediatric dentist, yes. My sister went to him specifically because she was under the impression that a man that specialized in handling kids would a) have some expertise with pain control, and b) have a better bedside manner. Both of these things were important at the time, because to say she's "deathly scared" of dentists is rather an understatement. > >>>>>> Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in > >>>> > >>>> And what are the punitive possibilities? Cat-O-Nine-Tails ...... Joel >He was a pediatric dentist, yes. My sister went to him specifically >because she was under the impression that a man that specialized in >handling kids would a) have some expertise with pain control, and All dentists have this. >b) have a better bedside manner. Haven't seen many pedo monsters have you ? >Both of these things were important at the >time, because to say she's "deathly scared" of dentists is rather an >understatement. She needs an endodontist ( a specialist in the treatment of diseases of the pulp ) ie. root canal therapy www.aae.org -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > >He was a pediatric dentist, yes. My sister went to him specifically > >because she was under the impression that a man that specialized in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > >b) have a better bedside manner. CORRECTION: Its called, "beside manner." > Haven't seen many pedo monsters have you ? > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > ? > >>>>> > > >> Mostly he was just scamming her. He insisted on doing the root canal > >> in two seperate visits instead of in the normal one, and insisted that > >> each visit charge be well over one thousand dollars - despite the fact > >> that she was begging him (literally) to do it in one shot; she's > >> deathly scared of dentists. He didn't even bother to give (or make up) > >> a reason as to why it must be in two stages,even as she asked why, > >> except insofar as "Because I like it that way." I saw her come out of > >> his office, pale as a sheet, sweating, shaking from head to toe like > >> she'd just been beaten stupid; there was no way this man could not > >> have > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > time, because to say she's "deathly scared" of dentists is rather an > understatement. It sounds like your sister has a real Dental Phobia. In that case (I would guess) she is more than apprehensive, but almost physically unable to sit in the chair, much like someone who is agrophobic would have difficulty going outside. In fact my great uncle had "dental Phobia" and almost never saw a dentist (lived a healthy life and died in his 80's after being a heavy smoker, which tells you a lot about modern dentistry). This thread would make more sense if the question was asked the following way: If a patient has a dental phobia, by law what allowances is the dentist required to make for treatment? I'm guessing (I'm not a dentist) that the standard for treatment is probably 3 referral. In other words if one dentist doesn't schedule the appointment in one session it is incumbent on you to find another dentist but if you contacted three or more dentists, and none of them would be willing to do the treatment in one session, (given that your sister has a very real fear of the dentist) that could be considered malpractice. > I'm guessing (I'm not a dentist) that the standard for treatment is > probably 3 referral. In other words if one dentist doesn't schedule the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > sister has a very real fear of the > dentist) that could be considered malpractice. Good advice ... Did I mention conscoius sedation ....? Joel There is a simple answer: doing RCT in two visits is probably the CORRECT THING TO DO, and is the way it is taught at every dental school. Admittedly you CAN do it in one visit, but it is clinically MORE APPROPRIATE IN ALMOST but not all situations to do it in multiple visits. There is NOTHING, and I MEAN NOTHING that can even remotely be brought to OPD [office professional discipline] in this one. They will not get involved with a fee, and you would be telling them that the doctor did a job in two visits that he could have done in one, and if he did it in one visit he would have made more money but did it in two visits. If you dont like him, change dentists. >>>>>>> Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a >>>>>>> manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > because to say she's "deathly scared" of dentists is rather an > understatement. Totally disagree. Multiple visits don't hurt anything (except more treatment time and anesthesia for the patient), but doing endo in 2 visits is not more appropriate in the vast majority of cases. Fawks > but it is clinically MORE APPROPRIATE IN ALMOST but not all situations to do > it in multiple visits. Endodontists disagree too. >Totally disagree. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> but it is clinically MORE APPROPRIATE IN ALMOST but not all situations to do >> it in multiple visits. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Steve: we agree on this one clinically. I WAS trying to explain to the person that did the original post that the dentist did the clinically appropriate thing: multiple visit endo is absolutely NOT a deviation from any known standard of care. > Totally disagree. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> but it is clinically MORE APPROPRIATE IN ALMOST but not all situations to >> do it in multiple visits. Just 'pickin nits' I guess. :-) Fawks > Steve: we agree on this one clinically. I WAS trying to explain to the > person that did the original post that the dentist did the clinically [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>>but it is clinically MORE APPROPRIATE IN ALMOST but not all situations to >>>do it in multiple visits. >Just 'pickin nits' I guess. > >:-) >Fawks Got lice ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Shame on all of you! Except for Drs Mark & Steven, Tony and Fawks - I apologize if I missed someone. The rest of you trolls know who you are! Why does it matter if the patient was Miedvied's wife, sister, wife and sister or sister's dog? What's wrong with him defending her? That's what you do when you feel that someone you love as been harmed or mistreated! As you will recall, he only offered details on this after being questioned - it started out solely as a request for information. If you had to say anything why couldn't you say "Here's the info you were looking for, but IMHO, this sounds more like a personality conflict, or an insensitive dentist, or the moons were not aligned, whatever, I would suggest that you find a different dentist. I can direct you to a few sites that could help" Now, what's wrong with that? But, no...most of you had to do your usual pond-scum routine. You turned a simple question into a bashing session and a hoax, and your behavior was shameful. I have news for you - you are not superior to your patients! You have been highly educated in a particular field and that's the extent of it!When the dentist saw her and when he examined her teeth are not the points of this post! The point is how she was treated and the neccessity for 2 appointments - it seems very simple to me.Why should anyone accept poor treatment? Remember, we are talking about real people here..not you or your ideal patient. Real people with quirks and feelings and fears and different personalities - all things that as a professional in health care, you should be educated on and sensitive to! I sure hope that you are a lot kinder and more compassionate during the day when you are practicing real dentistry than when you are here. I would hope that you use this board to vent all of the snippy, snotty, horrible things that you want to say during the day, but can't. That being said, why are you here? You don't care about people - that much is obvious. This board should be re-named "Nasty dentists, diligent in their eternal pursuit of superiority,one-upping each and patting their own backs" That would more aptly describe this board - with the exeption of the true professionals here that I have already excluded from this rant. What a bunch of trolls.....you discredit your profession by this type of behavior.You all have a lot to say and a lot of time and research available to play games with Jan, but when a real question or concern comes up, you don't step up to the plate. You just dish out ridicule and contempt. By the way Miedvied, look up your state's Dental Quality Assurance Board or it's equivalent. Any complaint will be investigated and the dentist will have to answer the allegations and even if nothing comes of it, there will always be a record of a complaint having been filed against him.Check with a local well-regarded hospital in your area for a referral. Often the hopsital has a referral line and you can get some names of dentists that they use.Thank you to all of the true dentists here whose advice is very much appreciated. >>> Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a >>> manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go about [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >And what are the punitive possibilities? For what ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >> Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a >> manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go about [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Steve On an aside: Thank you for being more-or-less the only poster here to give me the benefit of the doubt, and actually answer my questions, as opposed to assuming I'm attempting some sort of super-stealth trolling or the like. > >> Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a > >> manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go about [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > opposed to assuming I'm attempting some sort of super-stealth trolling > or the like. REPLY True. Just do not mention getting amalgams to CZ. Now back to our story. It was the "reporting to the ethics board" that got everyone annoyed. The guy may or may not be a jerk but please do not bother him or yourself with the reporting. It will waste everyone's time. Joel >>> Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a >>> manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go about [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > opposed to assuming I'm attempting some sort of super-stealth trolling > or the like. My office is on Ocean Ave., only 10 blocks from Coney Island Avenue. I don't need no lawyer wantin' to do a tapdance on my head. Steve SignatureCut the nonsense to reply >Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go about finding a mailing address for an ethics board at the ADA? As Steve mentioned, that is handled through the local dental society, which can be found in your local phone book. Where are you? And what was the ethical infraction? Regards, - dentaldoc "Incidious failure to perform root canal in one visit as opposed to two with reckless endangerment to the pulp." Joel > >Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a > manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go about [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Regards, > - dentaldoc >Are there any supervisory groups/committees at the ADA that act in a >manner similar to the ethics board of the AMA? How would one go about >finding a mailing address for an ethics board at the ADA? Why ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com |
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