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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / March 2005White Composites Getting Black
I had silver fillings on 2-3 molars on the left, right, top, and bottom of my mouth for about 17 years. My dentist said they were getting old and possibly leaking, and he wanted to replace them. I'd been seeing him for a few years, so I had no reason to think that was wrong... and that also implied to me that they hadn't been leaking for years. I had the choice of metal fillings again or white composite. He suggested the white composite, since they would look the best. The price difference wasn't too great, so I did it in 3 sessions, 2 in 2001 (right top, then right bottom), and 1 in 2002 (left top), all by the same dentist. The two done portions in 2001 now have dark areas on them, primarily where the filling meets the tooth. My new dentist (different person, same office) gave me what sounded like the general case story, the dark spots are leaks, it could've come from grinding, temperature variations, eating hard foods, moisture getting in when they were initially done ("there's no guarantee with these"). Also, sometimes on some people they last 2 years, sometimes 20 years. It's not likely that it's grinding, one of the dark spots is on the side, and my teeth don't show signs of grinding. I don't drink coffee or soda, the water I drink is filtered tap (I'm boring), and while I'm not on baby food, I don't anything that I have to struggle with (hard candies for instance). She wants to replace one of them already, I guess it looks bad to her. Insurance pays for some, I pay about $50. Most of the work done on those sides seems to be failing. What I'm trying to learn is whether the problem is natural or if it was just done badly. I found a website, http://www.mynewsmile.com/amalgam.htm, that seems to be saying that it was done wrong, but I don't know for sure from that one source. If it was done wrong, and they were willing to replace them, I'd be ok with it. How long should they last? Is the fact that most of them are breaking down a sign that it wasn't done right? It's been 4 years, but that seems too short, especially compared to what I had before. If you have any advice or insights, I'd appreciate hearing them. Thanks for reading. In my personal experience, fillings last much shorter in the mouths of patients who clench and try to grind during sleep. This activity tends to stretch and bend the teeth (microscopically). Enough of this activity over a long period of time, and the bonding strength is overcome and the bond separates from the tooth, and the filling begins to "leak". This happens on the biting surface as well as the sides of the teeth. Amalgam fillings seal by corrosion and are *slightly* less susceptible to this problem. As tooth flexes this tiny amount, the amalgam filling material being exposed (against the wall of the tooth), oxidizes and re-seals (somewhat). A bonded filling with dark borders usually is "leaking" and needs to be replaced. I have heard a lecturer or two say that he has the patient return every year and grinds the margin slightly and re-seals it with a "very fluid" liquid filling material to re-seal the margins. Personally, I don't think annual repairs of a filling is acceptable, but that is just me. Oh BTW, if you are clenching, it is very hard to find signs of it on the teeth. You often need to study plaster models of the teeth to find these signs.  Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... >I had silver fillings on 2-3 molars on the left, right, top, and bottom > of my mouth for about 17 years. My dentist said they were getting old [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > If you have any advice or insights, I'd appreciate hearing them. > Thanks for reading. Thanks for the input. Would clenching cause darkening on a composite lying on the side of a tooth? One dark area goes from the top of the tooth down towards the gumline on the inside of my mouth. >Thanks for the input. Would clenching cause darkening on a composite >lying on the side of a tooth? One dark area goes from the top of the >tooth down towards the gumline on the inside of my mouth. That sounds like a vertical fracture. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Clenching *could* contribute to the margin failing pre-maturely which would then allow organic material to penetrate under the restoration and cause darkness. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > Thanks for the input. Would clenching cause darkening on a composite > lying on the side of a tooth? One dark area goes from the top of the > tooth down towards the gumline on the inside of my mouth. >Clenching *could* contribute to the margin failing pre-maturely which would >then allow organic material to penetrate under the restoration and cause >darkness. Ahh, would that be the 'heart of darkness' ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Though you guys were talking about busing. >Oh BTW, if you are clenching, it is very hard to find signs of it on the >teeth. You often need to study plaster models of the teeth to find these >signs. I find it very easy to spot this. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Sure, but demonstrating to the patient is tough. I find that using models with the occlusion matched up to the latero-protrusive bracing position helps a lot. Often I can guide the patient into this position and discuss it chairside without models. But, the OP was trying to see signs of it himself. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > > Though you guys were talking about busing. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >Sure, but demonstrating to the patient is tough. I find that using models >with the occlusion matched up to the latero-protrusive bracing position >helps a lot. Often I can guide the patient into this position and discuss >it chairside without models. But, the OP was trying to see signs of it >himself. IntraOral camera. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Thanks for the comments. I also have some dark areas on a composite done on the side of my tooth (between the top and bottom of a tooth on the inside of my mouth). Would grinding cause discoloration on a part of my teeth that can't possibly rub up against another tooth? Hi Dr. Steve, Thanks for the information. I also have a dark area on a tooth on the inside of my mouth, going from the top of the tooth down towards the bottom of the tooth (middle not sides... I'm starting to see why tooth ID numbers are important). Would grinding cause that on an area of the tooth that has no possible way of hitting another tooth? I would think no, as I implied in my original message, but for all I know some kind of flexing is going on. Thanks again. > Oh BTW, if you are clenching, it is very hard to find signs of it on the > teeth. You often need to study plaster models of the teeth to find these > signs. Vertical fracture. Get thee to a dentist ! >Hi Dr. Steve, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >these >> signs. Vertical fracture. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com When you clench very hard and try to grind or move your jaw side to side, the teeth will actually flex a tiny bit. Over time, this bending will cause the margins to lose their bond and then organic debris is able to flow between the tooth and filling material. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > Hi Dr. Steve, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > these >> signs. >I had silver fillings on 2-3 molars on the left, right, top, and bottom > of my mouth for about 17 years. My dentist said they were getting old [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > trying to learn is whether the problem is natural or if it was just > done badly. I found a website, http://www.mynewsmile.com/amalgam.htm, The answers there are LIES!!!!!! > that seems to be saying that it was done wrong, but I don't know for > sure from that one source. If it was done wrong, and they were willing [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If you have any advice or insights, I'd appreciate hearing them. > Thanks for reading. See a holistic dentist, and don't expect the truth from the dentists here. LL And where are the "LIES!!!!!!" on that webpage?? - dentaldoc > <trueskew@gmail.com> wrote in message > > > > Most of the work done on those sides seems to be failing. What I'm > > trying to learn is whether the problem is natural or if it was just > > done badly. I found a website, http://www.mynewsmile.com/amalgam.htm, > The answers there are LIES!!!!!! > And where are the "LIES!!!!!!" on that webpage?? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >> The answers there are LIES!!!!!! ....and ....... http://www.aucegypt.edu/faculty/hamroush/images/GeologyImages/AUC-26-%20Group1.JPG de-NILE! de real one! Joel
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