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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / March 2005Amalgam Not Linked to Peripheral Neuropathy
By Mark Berthold Bethesda, MD -- March 7, 2005 A new study, conducted by leading scientists from highly-regarded research and academic institutions, finds no link between amalgam exposure and neurological function. "Our findings do not support the hypothesis that exposure to amalgam produces adverse, clinically evident neurological effects," concludes a research team led by Albert Kingman, Ph.D., Chief, Biostatistics Core, at the National Institute of Dental And Craniofacial Research, part of the federal National Institutes of Health. The effects tested, as part of the overall neurological evaluation, include abnormal tremors, coordination, station or gait, strength, sensation and muscle stretch reflexes. The study, "Amalgam Exposure and Neurological Function," appears in the March issue of NeuroToxicology. It followed 1,663 subjects of the ongoing Air Force Health Study of Vietnam era veterans. An oral health examination has been part of the standard AFHS medical examination since 1992 because "peripheral neuropathy" is considered to be an important adverse neurological effect of high levels of exposure to elemental mercury. But as with other neurological effects, the study found no connection of amalgam to any level of peripheral neuropathy. "The bottom line," says co-researcher James W. Albers, M.D., Ph.D., of the University of Michigan Medical School, "is there was no association between abnormal neurological signs and amalgam exposure. So these findings do not support the hypothesis that amalgam exposure produces clinically evident neurological effects." . > By Mark Berthold > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > research and academic institutions, finds no link between amalgam > exposure and neurological function. I'm testing my psychic abilities today. I predict you and/or the authors will be called liars before tomorrow. Tomorrow I'm going to learn telekinesis. carabelli I posted it last week and was pretty much just ignored. I think only CZ had a comment. Out of sight, out of mind I guess. On CZ's list, he says it would take a miracle for me to understand amalgam poisoning. All it would really take would be a report in the New England Journal of Medicine. Still haven't used amalgam for 20 years, Fawks >>By Mark Berthold >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > carabelli > I posted it last week and was pretty much just ignored. I think > only CZ had a comment. Out of sight, out of mind I guess. Yeah, I copy/pasted my response from that thread. But then if you actually read the abstract they admit there were limitations to fine testing of perihpal neuropathy in the study. Furthermore they say: "A statistically significant association was detected between amalgam exposure and the continuous vibrotactile sensation response for the combined non-diabetic participants and separately for non-diabetic AFHS controls." I won't even ask how they assesed "amalgam exposure" for Vietnam vets considering that those with the highest saliva hg levels in other studies do not necessarily have the most amalgam and current testing cannot assess past exposure which would be the most likely contributor to these conditions. (Why would an amalgam leaking, say 150ug/day in 1970, continue leaking at that rate all the way through 2005? The filling would lose most of its Hg by then. That may seem trivial but it is an important point! Taking an inaccurate blood test and counting amalgam surfaces on some random day in 2003 to assess the "real" Hg exposure from amalgam over the past 30 years just doesn't cut it). Also note the relatively small study size making it impossible to determine effects in say the 1% most exposed. I'm glad the average person hasn't developed significant neuropathy from having a little more amalgam. But these "amalgam surface counting" studies which attempt to convert that fact into a declaration of amalgam safety really get tiresome after a while. >I'm testing my psychic abilities today. I predict you and/or the authors >will be called liars before tomorrow. Why? What is Jan doing tonight? Joel >Tomorrow I'm going to learn telekinesis. I knew that already. Why did you post it? ;-) Fawks > I'm testing my psychic abilities today. I predict you and/or the authors > will be called liars before tomorrow. > > Tomorrow I'm going to learn telekinesis. > > carabelli >> By Mark Berthold >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >I'm testing my psychic abilities today. I predict you and/or the authors >will be called liars before tomorrow. And the accusation of lying will shortly thereafter be followed by a demand for research showing the safety of amalgam. Ain't hypocrisy grand? >Tomorrow I'm going to learn telekinesis. > >carabelli  SignaturePeter Bowditch The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com >>> By Mark Berthold >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>I'm testing my psychic abilities today. I predict you and/or the authors >>will be called liars before tomorrow. Liars will be called liars whn they lie, and this is a whopper And those who think lying is funny should spend a day or 3 with peripheral neuropathy. Their lies and making fun are between them and God. They will pay. LL >>>> By Mark Berthold >>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >And those who think lying is funny should spend a day or 3 with peripheral >neuropathy. I have peripheral neuropathy. f.ck you and the wildebeest you rode in on. >Their lies and making fun are between them and God. > >They will pay. > >LL SignaturePeter Bowditch The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com > I have peripheral neuropathy. f.ck you and the wildebeest you rode in > on. Priceless! SP SignatureFinally: take out the TRASHH >> I have peripheral neuropathy. f.ck you and the wildebeest you rode in >> on. > > Priceless! > SP An excellent example of the *gang* >>> I have peripheral neuropathy. f.ck you and the wildebeest you rode in >>> on. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >An excellent example of the *gang* Aw, Jan, I thought that you would have sympathy with me because I suffer from numb toes. Personal experience, you know. SignaturePeter Bowditch The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com How could you tell the difference? Fawks >>I have peripheral neuropathy. f.ck you and the wildebeest you rode in >>on. > > Priceless! > SP "Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote in message f.ck you and the wildebeest you rode in on. > Peter Bowditch >"Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote in message > > f.ck you and the wildebeest you rode in on. > >> Peter Bowditch JAN!!!! I am surprised you repeat such language!!! Don't you know its more polite to say "water buffalo?" >"Peter Bowditch" <myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote in message > > f.ck you and the wildebeest you rode in on. > >> Peter Bowditch Jan, Jan, Jan - you snipped the bit about my peripheral neuropathy. Have you no sympathy for a fellow sufferer. (I am hoping that my PN doesn't get too bad. I know someone who had so many amalgam fillings, vaccinations and tuna sandwiches that everyone now calls him "Numb Nuts".) PS: isn't a wildebeest an attractive animal? SignaturePeter Bowditch The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com >Liars will be called liars whn they lie, and this is a whopper >> >And those who think lying is funny should spend a day or 3 with peripheral >neuropathy. Well no Jan. The dentists and the toxicologists say no. What do the barbers and insurance salesmen say? Joel > >Liars will be called liars whn they lie, and this is a whopper > >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Well no Jan. The dentists and the toxicologists say no. What do the > barbers ? Thanks for reminding me, next time I have a dentist appointment I'll also ask for a haircut. > Joel Carabelli wrote: I'm testing my psychic abilities today. I predict you and/or the authors will be called liars before tomorrow You were right! HOW did you know?? - dentaldoc >Carabelli wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >- dentaldoc carabelli is psychotic. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Mental illness is inherited (from your kids). Fawks >>Carabelli wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Jan will poo-poo this article as being too recent to be of value. Anything newer than 1918 is no good for Lady Lolli-Poop. Joel >By Mark Berthold > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >. > By Mark Berthold > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > at the National Institute of Dental And Craniofacial Research, part of > the federal National Institutes of Health. This paragraph also implies that the study was done BY the NIDCR, not eveb an independent researcher. We all know this institute is run by dentists and in the middle of the amalgam controversy even being investigated by congress for flagrant incompetence and bias in this issue (one thing NIDCR did was simply refuse to even publish many of the amalgam studies it funded). It has a long history of promoting amalgam as safe and is the institution primarly responsible for the use of amalgam in the US. NIDCR is primarly concerned with legal liability for its past actions and would NEVER hold a press conference for any study that implied amalgam unsafe (although there are plenty). > The effects tested, as part of the overall neurological evaluation, > include abnormal tremors, coordination, station or gait, strength, > sensation and muscle stretch reflexes. Also, let's not forget how closely tied amalgam is to socio-ecomonic factors. One could associate higher levels of amalgam with greater finiancial resources and better overhealth/less chronic disease. What is suspicous is that with number of confounding factors no Positive or Negative correlation is found with these measures. yes, some studies in Sweden have found higher levels of amalgam to be associated with better health, probably becasue those that can afford filling can afford better overall healthcare and don't lose as many teeth! > The study, "Amalgam Exposure and Neurological Function," appears in the > March issue of NeuroToxicology. It followed 1,663 subjects of the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > findings do not support the hypothesis that amalgam exposure produces > clinically evident neurological effects." Now they went from testing for advanced PN on 'average' to declaring there are "no evident neurological affects" from amalgam exposure. Did they test for IQ changes, personality changes, depression, etc. This would be like looking for a link between lead paint exposure and advanced PN and then when you didn't find it saying. "this study does not support the hypothesis that lead causes any neurological effects." are they really interested in studying the safety of amalgam or finding one little part of one study with no positive correlation and using that as an excuse to broadcast false assertions of broad safety. clint...@prodigy.net wrote: > > By Mark Berthold > > > > Bethesda, MD -- March 7, 2005 Abstract copied with comments: "Concerns regarding the safety of silver-mercury amalgam fillings continue to be raised in the absence of any direct evidence of harm. The widespread population exposure to amalgam mandated that a thorough investigation be conducted of its potential effects on the nervous system. The National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research and U.S. Air Force investigators" Comment- done by the good old NIDCR. Wouldn't trust that anymore than a study on cigarettes done by Marlbolo. "collaborated in the ongoing Air Force Health Study (AFHS) of Vietnam era veterans. The primary study question involved adverse health effects associated with exposure to herbicides or dioxin. An assessment of exposure to dental amalgam fillings was added to the 1997-1998 health examination to investigate possible" What does that mean, this study was done in 1997? How did they determine which of the 1997 particpants where healthy in 2005? " associations between amalgam exposure and neurological abnormalities. Our study population consisted of 1663 dentate AFHS participants" An interesting fact is that many vietnam vets would have regular amalgam, wheras those with fewer amalgams could have the non-gamma two's which in reality give off 50 times more Hg. " comprised of 986 AFHS controls and 677 Ranch Hand veterans who were exposed to dioxin in Vietnam. Two hundred and fifty-two of the participants had confirmed diabetes mellitus." Uh oh, diabetes can cause PN and those which have less sugar leading to fewer filling, a confounding factor. Also did the controls exposed to dioxin have PN or neurological symtoms according to these measures? let's aslo not tell them that severe HG toxicity can lead to suicide so those with the worst effects may even be dead in a group of veterans. "Study outcomes included clinical neurological signs, vibrotactile thresholds, and summary variables for different levels of peripheral neuropathy. A limitation of our study is that our database did not include more sensitive continuous measures such as nerve conduction studies." I.E words the study is not sensitive enough to look for sub-clinical signs or even dream of assessing effects in the top 1/ .1 % exposed. "No significant associations were found between amalgam exposure and clinical neurological signs of abnormal tremor, coordination, station or gait, strength, sensation, or muscle stretch reflexes or for any level of peripheral neuropathy among our study participants. "A statistically significant association was detected between amalgam exposure and the continuous vibrotactile sensation response for the combined non-diabetic participants and separately for non-diabetic AFHS controls." Interesting. They did find a correlation! but lets hold a press conference declaring amalgam is "safe" " No significant association in this measure was detectable for non-diabetic Ranch Hand veterans or among the combined diabetic participants." Maybe thats because the ranch hands where exposed to Dioxin (see above) and had neurological symptoms from THAt, masking any sub-clinical effects from amalgam. Let's ignore the above two groups with the correlation between AM and less vibrotactile sensation, then use that and the fact the diabetic participants also had confounding factors from diabeties casuation of PN to confuse the previous findings. "The association is a sub-clinical finding that was not associated with symptoms, clinically evident signs of neuropathy, or any functional impairment." This study is the study of the AVERAGE effect. Why would you ignore expected sub-clinical effects. Overall, we found no association between amalgam exposure and neurological signs or clinically evident peripheral neuropathy." On AVERAGE. Of course the study cannot assess effects in those most exposed such as JAN. No one is saying that the average person develops full blown PN from exposure to amalgam. Either assess full blown PN effects in the .1-1% most exposed or look for sub-clinical effects in the entire population. Geeez.... "Our findings do not support the hypothesis that exposure to amalgam produces adverse, clinically evident neurological effects" They just said they found sub-clinical effects above... And so their study WAS capable of assessing neuropathy in the 1% most exposed using reliable methods of determing long term amalgam Hg body burden (including mehtyl-mercury load)?? Of course not! Its all BS!! The NIDCR figures the press won't be smart enough to even read the abstract and see there where subclinical findings. And you know what? ...they are right... They can redo 1997 data with tests even they admit aren't sensitive enough, Ignore sub-clinical findings and push the results into the journal of toxicology under the guise of research done by an "esteemed academic institution" when its just the good ole NIDCR covering its butt. Probably took them a couple years even to come up with this after the congressional hearings. They are just a bunch of crooks. >"Concerns regarding the safety of silver-mercury amalgam fillings >continue to be raised in the absence of any direct evidence of harm. except as told by Jan Drew who still cannot break dance ....... > Also, let's not forget how closely tied amalgam is to > socio-ecomonic factors. One could associate higher levels [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > filling can afford better overall healthcare and don't lose > as many teeth! Why would one " . . . associate higher levels of amalgam with greater finiancial resources and better overhealth/less chronic disease?" Wouldn't you find more gold and porcelain, and less amalgam, with wealthier patients? - dentaldoc > > Also, let's not forget how closely tied amalgam is to > > socio-ecomonic factors. One could associate higher levels [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Why would one " . . . associate higher levels of amalgam with greater > finiancial resources and better overhealth/less chronic disease?" Well, for one thing those who are poorer and cannot afford dental care are more likely to have their tooth pulled or have it deteriorate to the point where it cannot be filled. Those wealthier patients would detect the cavities earlier and have the cavities filled. They would also have better medical care, grow up in better environments, have better nutrition and potentially better health from that. The army was also criticized for drafting people disproportionately from poor backgrounds in the Vietnam Era. A dentist also pointed out before that as the patient get's older (and presumabley less healthy and more likely to develop hand tremors), they are more likely to have amalgam replaced by crowns. Adjusting for age and health can be tricky too because, for example Studies also show that those with the worst health tend to get sicker past 70 or 80 and have more chances of dying, while the very healthiest/not the sickest have a good chance of living into their 90's. Obviously you could argue these factors endlessly but this gives me some idea of why drug companies/government routinely throw out studies with 3000, 5000 or even 10000 participants for poor design. > Wouldn't you find more gold and porcelain, and less amalgam, with > wealthier patients? And Gold is notorious for creating galvanic affects with amalgam which pulls more Hg out. In the US I was under the impression that most people in the 1940-80's did not get gold even if they could afford it. Maybe more people have gold fillings than I realized. Porcelain would have not been available to Vets until the 90's so those that would have been more likely to be concerned about amalgam toxicity from severe neuropathy may have had their amalgams replaced. Another reason why assessing amalgam number in 2005 or 1997 could severly underestimate lifelong Hg burden from amalgam. This study is ultimately comparing amalgam with amalgam, not amalgam with a nonamalgam control group. > By Mark Berthold > > Bethesda, MD -- March 7, 2005 Lost my first critique after I hit send so had to rewrite it... Concerns regarding the safety of silver-mercury amalgam fillings continue to be raised in the absence of any direct evidence of harm. The widespread population exposure to amalgam mandated that a thorough investigation be conducted of its potential effects on the nervous system. The National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research and U.S. Air Force investigators --Highly esteemed academic instituion. the good old NIDCR again covering their butt. How long did it take them to come up with this, two years after the congressional investigation? and after all those studies they forgot to publish.... collaborated in the ongoing Air Force Health Study (AFHS) of Vietnam era veterans. The primary study question involved adverse health effects associated with exposure to herbicides or dioxin. An assessment of exposure to dental amalgam fillings was added to the 1997-1998 health examination to investigate possible --note vets with more amalgam probably had regular amalgam not the newer non-gamma 2 which give off more Hg- confounding factor number one. --- added to 1997 data? How did they assess the health of the vets in 2005? associations between amalgam exposure and neurological abnormalities. Our study population consisted of 1663 dentate AFHS participants, comprised of 986 AFHS controls and 677 Ranch Hand veterans who were exposed to dioxin in Vietnam. Two hundred and fifty-two of the participants had confirmed diabetes mellitus. --Uh oh diabetes means less sugar intake fewer amalgams but can lead to PN, confounding fact number 2. Study outcomes included clinical neurological signs, vibrotactile thresholds, and summary variables for different levels of peripheral neuropathy. A limitation of our study is that our database did not include more sensitive continuous measures such as nerve conduction studies. --so the study isn't sensitive enough to detect sub-clinical symptoms. Obviously it doesn't have the statistial power to assess the effects in the most exposed either. since we know most people with amalgam do not have full blown PN the final concocted conclusion is obvious. No significant associations were found between amalgam exposure and clinical neurological signs of abnormal tremor, coordination, station or gait, strength, sensation, or muscle stretch reflexes or for any level of peripheral neuropathy among our study participants. A statistically significant association was detected between amalgam exposure and the continuous vibrotactile sensation response for the combined non-diabetic participants and separately for non-diabetic AFHS controls. --See, they did find a correlation, but lets hold a press conference declaring amalgam safe. Guess the NIDCR figures the press isn't smart enough to read the abstract. They are right. No significant association in this measure was detectable for non-diabetic Ranch Hand veterans or among the combined diabetic participants. --right, because the ranch hands had dioxin exposure (see above) which would be a separate factor in the causation or neurological symptoms. Same for the diabetics who would develop it from diabetes, masking effects form AM. According to the nutty science of the NIDCR this proves the previous findings may not be true. I forgot, how long did it take the NIDCR to realize Hg comes of fillings? Was it 30 or was it 40 years? The association is a sub-clinical finding that was not associated with symptoms, clinically evident signs of neuropathy, or any functional impairment. --the whole point of looking for gross average effects is to look for sub-clinical effects. You don't average those most exposed who may have develop PN with everyone else, then say, well on average we didn't find full blown PN so the extremes don't exist. You don't average extremes (even if it is .1%) then say extremes can't exist because it is not evident in the average. (Reminds in math when someone was asked to prove associativity in 5 steps. Well step 1, using the property of associativity to derive step 2. Duh,.. that don't work..) --Can this study assess real Hg body burden over 30 years and neurolgiacal effects in the .1-1% most exposed or even the top 10%. No way? > By Mark Berthold > > Bethesda, MD -- March 7, 2005 > By Mark Berthold > > Bethesda, MD -- March 7, 2005 Lost the first critique so had to rewrite it... Concerns regarding the safety of silver-mercury amalgam fillings continue to be raised in the absence of any direct evidence of harm. The widespread population exposure to amalgam mandated that a thorough investigation be conducted of its potential effects on the nervous system. The National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research and U.S. Air Force investigators --Highly esteemed academic instituion. the good old NIDCR again covering their butt. How long did it take them to come up with this, two years after the congressional investigation? and after all those studies they forgot to publish.... collaborated in the ongoing Air Force Health Study (AFHS) of Vietnam era veterans. The primary study question involved adverse health effects associated with exposure to herbicides or dioxin. An assessment of exposure to dental amalgam fillings was added to the 1997-1998 health examination to investigate possible --note vets with more amalgam probably had regular amalgam not the newer non-gamma 2 which give off more Hg- confounding factor number one. --- added to 1997 data? How did they assess the health of the vets in 2005? associations between amalgam exposure and neurological abnormalities. Our study population consisted of 1663 dentate AFHS participants, comprised of 986 AFHS controls and 677 Ranch Hand veterans who were exposed to dioxin in Vietnam. Two hundred and fifty-two of the participants had confirmed diabetes mellitus. --Uh oh diabetes means less sugar intake fewer amalgams but can lead to PN, confounding fact number 2. Study outcomes included clinical neurological signs, vibrotactile thresholds, and summary variables for different levels of peripheral neuropathy. A limitation of our study is that our database did not include more sensitive continuous measures such as nerve conduction studies. --so the study isn't sensitive enough to detect sub-clinical symptoms. Obviously it doesn't have the statistial power to assess the effects in the most exposed either. since we know most people with amalgam do not have full blown PN the final concocted conclusion is obvious. No significant associations were found between amalgam exposure and clinical neurological signs of abnormal tremor, coordination, station or gait, strength, sensation, or muscle stretch reflexes or for any level of peripheral neuropathy among our study participants. A statistically significant association was detected between amalgam exposure and the continuous vibrotactile sensation response for the combined non-diabetic participants and separately for non-diabetic AFHS controls. --See, they did find a correlation, but lets hold a press conference declaring amalgam safe. Guess the NIDCR figures the press isn't smart enough to read the abstract. They are right. No significant association in this measure was detectable for non-diabetic Ranch Hand veterans or among the combined diabetic participants. --right, because the ranch hands had dioxin exposure (see above) which would be a separate factor in the causation or neurological symptoms. Same for the diabetics who would develop it from diabetes, masking effects form AM. According to the nutty science of the NIDCR this proves the previous findings may not be true. I forgot, how long did it take the NIDCR to realize Hg comes of fillings? Was it 30 or was it 40 years? The association is a sub-clinical finding that was not associated with symptoms, clinically evident signs of neuropathy, or any functional impairment. --the whole point of looking for gross average effects is to look for sub-clinical effects. You don't average those most exposed who may have develop PN with everyone else, then say, well on average we didn't find full blown PN so the extremes don't exist. You don't average extremes (even if it is .1%) then say extremes can't exist because it is not evident in the average. (Reminds in math when someone was asked to prove associativity in 5 steps. Well step 1, using the property of associativity to derive step 2. Duh,.. that don't work..) --Can this study assess real Hg body burden over 30 years and neurolgiacal effects in the .1-1% most exposed or even the top 10%. No way? >> By Mark Berthold >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Concerns regarding the safety of silver-mercury amalgam fillings > continue to be raised in the absence of any direct evidence of harm. There a total lie, why go any farther.?? Web Results 1 - 10 of about 12,900 for MERCURY AMALGAM DANGERS. (0.32 seconds > The widespread population exposure to amalgam mandated that a thorough > investigation be conducted of its potential effects on the nervous [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] > and neurolgiacal effects in the .1-1% most exposed or even > the top 10%. No way? |
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