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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / March 2005NICO
Another denial from *organized dentistry* From the voice of experience, I've had one cavitations cleaned twice to relieve the God awful pressure in the jaw bone, my dentist even found some copper. All insults will be ignored. http://maxillofacialcenter.com/NICOhome.html http://www.drshankland.com/nico.html http://www.holisticmed.com/dental/root.html#cavitation http://www.holisticmed.com/dental/cavitation1.html http://www.tldp.com/issue/157-8/157rootc.htm http://www.whale.to/d/cavitations.html http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm#cavitations LL For any casual readers of this post. NICO has only [ever] been diagnosed by one biopsy lab in the entire United States. No other lab has been able to find it. Be warned. Make up your own mind. > Another denial from *organized dentistry* > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > LL >For any casual readers of this post. NICO has only [ever] been diagnosed by >one biopsy lab in the entire United States. No other lab has been able to >find it. Be warned. Make up your own mind. From: www.aae.org The following statement was prepared by the AAE Research and Scientific Affairs Committee to address issues being raised by some endodontic patients. AAE members may photocopy this statement for distribution to patients or referring dentists. AAE Position Statement NICO Lesions (Neuralgia-Inducing Cavitational Osteonecrosis) The NICO lesion (Neuralgia-Inducing Cavitational Osteonecrosis, also known as Ratners bone cavity) was first described in the dental literature in 1920 by G.V. Black. The lesion consists of ischemic osteonecrosis found in the jaws of patients with symptoms of atypical facial pain or trigeminal neuralgia. Research has shown the lesions to be difficult to diagnose. The lesion will sometimes present very subtle radiographic changes often detectable only by a technetium scan or with multiple periapical radiographs. The overlying soft tissues show no changes. Many etiologies for NICO have been suggested, but none have been substantiated through research. According to noted oral pathologist Dr. J.E. Bouquot, the typical NICO case occurs as facial pain many years after an extraction or an infection in the area. Odontogenic infections and minor trauma have been suggested as initiators, and correlations to clotting or vascular abnormalities have been made based on anecdotal associations. No scientific studies have demonstrated a causative relationship between endodontic therapy and the formation of NICO. The recommended treatment for NICO is decortication and curettage of the bony tissues. While this practice has produced relief of pain in some cases, NICO has a strong tendency to recur and to develop in other jawbone sites. Most affected sites with a postoperative NICO diagnosis have been in edentulous areas. However, some patients with long, frustrating histories of pain associated with endodontically treated teeth have been presented the treatment option of tooth extraction followed by periapical curettage in an attempt to alleviate pain. The American Association of Endodontists cannot condone this practice when NICO is suspected. Because of the lack of clear etiological data, a NICO diagnosis should be considered only as a last resort when all possible local odontogenic causes for facial pain have been eliminated. If a NICO lesion is suspected in relation to an endodontically treated tooth, if possible, periradicular surgery and curettage should be attempted, not extraction. In addition, the practice of recommending the extraction of endodontically treated teeth for the prevention of NICO, or any other disease, is unethical and should be reported immediately to the appropriate state board of dentistry. The following statement was prepared by the AAE Research and Scientific Affairs Committee to address issues being raised by some endodontic patients. AAE members may photocopy this statement for distribution to patients or referring dentists. AAE Position Statement NICO Lesions (Neuralgia-Inducing Cavitational Osteonecrosis) References References References References References 1. Bouquot JE. In review of NICO (neuralgia-inducing cavitational osteonecrosis), GV Blacks forgotten disease. 1995, 4th ed. 2. Bouquot JE, Christian J. Long-term effects of jawbone curettage on the pain of facial neuralgia. J Oral Maxillofac Surg 1995;53:387397. 3. Ratner EJ, Langer B, Evins ML. Alveolar cavitational osteopathosis. Manifestations of an infectious process and its implication in the causation of chronic pain. J Periodont 1986; 58:593603. 4. Segall RO, del Rio CE. Cavitational bone defect: a diagnostic challenge. J Endodon 1991; 17:396 400. © 1996, 1996, 1996, 1996, 1996, Association of Endodontists, www.aae.org -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >>For any casual readers of this post. NICO has only [ever] been diagnosed >>by >>one biopsy lab in the entire United States. No other lab has been able to >>find it. Be warned. Make up your own mind. > > From: www.aae.org *organized dentistry liars, the ssame ones who deny the risks of amalgams. > For any casual readers of this post. NICO has only [ever] been diagnosed > by one biopsy lab in the entire United States. No other lab has been able > to find it. Be warned. Make up your own mind. Follow-up Studies Published Literature Research Papers Research Abstracts Medicine published research >> Another denial from *organized dentistry* >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> >> LL >> For any casual readers of this post. NICO has only [ever] been diagnosed >> by one biopsy lab in the entire United States. No other lab has been able [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Medicine published research All of them things which Jan rejects. <snip repetition>  SignaturePeter Bowditch The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com > For any casual readers of this post. NICO has only [ever] been diagnosed by > one biopsy lab in the entire United States. No other lab has been able to > find it. Be warned. Make up your own mind. Hmmm. What about this photo? http://maxillofacialcenter.com/JOPM99/NICOjopm2a.html What is that and what is it called? > > For any casual readers of this post. NICO has only [ever] been > diagnosed by [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > What is that and what is it called? The photo is clearly labeled "Ischemic Osteonecrosis"...why the ?? Note that this photo is from what is apparently the only path lab in the country that makes the NICO diagnosis. T > > > For any casual readers of this post. NICO has only [ever] been > > diagnosed by [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > The photo is clearly labeled "Ischemic Osteonecrosis"...why the ?? This question has come up in other lists. What is the difference between osteomyletis and Osteonecrosis? Can osteomyletis cause nerve pain? Now if Osteonecrosis exists as shown in that photograph are you saying that it can't cause neuralagia, therefore NICO doesn't exist or that "cavitational osteonecrosis does not exist"? Also, given that a sample shows osteonecrosis as in the photograph, how could a biopsy lab diagnose or not diagnose NICO since you can't tell anything about the nervous system from a jaw sample, unless you are saying that no nerve damage in the jaw from osteonecrosis has ever been found? Another point is, If pockets of bacterial infection exists in the jawbone, couldn't they kill nearby surrounding bone and therefore cause some kind of local necrosis or does that not meet the definition of osteonecrosis? >> The photo is clearly labeled "Ischemic Osteonecrosis"...why the ?? > >This question has come up in other lists. What is the difference >between osteomyletis and Osteonecrosis? After Stedman's: Osteomyelitis Inflammation of the bone marrow and adjacent bone and epiphysial cartilage. Osteonecrosis The death of bone in mass, as distinguished from caries ("molecular death"), or relatively small foci of necrosis in bone. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > > > > For any casual readers of this post. NICO has only [ever] been > > > diagnosed by [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > between osteomyletis and Osteonecrosis? Can osteomyletis cause > nerve pain? Any inflammatory condition can and will cause "nerve pain". Is there another kind of pain??? > Now if Osteonecrosis exists as shown in that photograph are > you saying that it can't cause neuralagia, therefore NICO [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > unless you are saying that no nerve damage in the jaw from > osteonecrosis has ever been found? The issue here is not whether necrosis can occur in bone, it is more related to the fact that the site you cite seems to be the only one that diagnoses NICO. Doctor's that have been swept up in NICO mania are also claiming to be able to cure many systemic conditions by treating these reported holes in your jaw. There are further reports that endodontically treated teeth cause these holes and therefore extracting teeth will also cure many systemic conditions. Your question of "how could a biopsy lab diagnose or not diagnose NICO since you can't tell anything about the nervous system from a jaw sample" is a good one, and one you may want to ask of the only lab that says they CAN make this diagnosis. I'd certainly like to hear their response! > Another point is, If pockets of bacterial infection exists > in the jawbone, couldn't they kill nearby surrounding bone > and therefore cause some kind of local necrosis or does > that not meet the definition of osteonecrosis? Necrosis usually (always?) refers more to breakdown associated with a loss of blood supply rather than an infectious process. The presence of infection associated with a tooth can cause destruction of bone, and this is commonly seen and treated, but this process isn't really accurately described as necrosis. >> between osteomyletis and Osteonecrosis? Can osteomyletis cause >> nerve pain? > >Any inflammatory condition can and will cause "nerve pain". Is there another >kind of pain??? WoW! Exactly what I said! Joel > WoW! > > Exactly what I said! > > Joel Great minds think alike...sometimes..(;^D) T >This question has come up in other lists. What is the difference >between osteomyletis and Osteonecrosis? Can osteomyletis cause >nerve pain? Its a world of difference. The usffix -itis means "inflammation of ...." Necrosis means death. As in necrotic tissue. Relating to or affected by necrosis Yes it can cause nerve pain, which is the only type of pain by the way. Joel >nerve pain, which is the only type of pain by the >way. > >Joel Indeed. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>nerve pain, which is the only type of pain by the >>way. >> >>Joel > >Indeed. Indeed and THANK GOD! Nerve pain is bad enough ........ >Path: news.easynews.com!en206!core-easynews!newsfeed2.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s51.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail >From: "LadyLollipop" <LadyLollipop@insightbb.com> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Another... ...spam. Reported. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE > ...spam. > > Reported. > > -- > W_B Thanks...wasn't Nico the lead singer of the Velvet Underground? I wonder if she approves of her name being used to describe a phantom hole. T >> ...spam. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >T Good one ! -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >>Path: >>news.easynews.com!en206!core-easynews!newsfeed2.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s51.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Take out the G'RBAGE ROTFLOL > Another denial from *organized dentistry* > > From the voice of experience, I've had one cavitations cleaned twice to > relieve the God awful pressure in the jaw bone, my dentist even found some > copper. Really, probably from the corroding amalgam! Non-gamma 2? You should have the saved the amalgam. i had high Cu in my blood before amalgam removal. I also heard of another case where copper/amalgam residue had gotten into the pulp. The sick part is that they are so used to finding 100's of times normal Hg near fillings and elevated Hg levels in blood that even if you manange to track it and measure it properly you still can't prove anything. If you show them copper residue or high blood copper levels they'll say, well that doesn't prove anything either. Tin hat. Fawks > Tin hat. > > Fawks I swear you must be a plant by the ADA. Who else would defend amalgam in the face of the known scientific evidence. And why do you care anyway? If your trying to ease your conscience attacking the victims of modern dentistry ultimately you will only bring yourself more shame. Unfortunately, the only concievably crazy person in my story is the dentist who placed my filling and actually had to be locked out of the office by his associate. His associate knew he was crazy when I called him up to ask why my records were missing. His phraseology was "We left on bad terms". In fact according to US Search my dentist had 17 separate address from the time he left the practice in 1993 to the time he died in 2003 after "wandering" the country including: 9 addresses in San Fransico, CA 2 address in Lewes DE 5 addresses in Arlington, VA 1 Address in DC Do a US search! Robert J Marko. You really want to know who is crazy? It's all there on the web! Now he was probably consciously practicing with Aids and my records where probably consciously removed too because only mine out of 3 family members where missing! At least Two counts of crimminal misconduct! http://www.camprehoboth.com/issue05_16_03/we_remember.htm He also may have lied about why he left the practice in 1993 telling his associate he "hurt" his arm in an auto accident to go on disability... another count of crimminal misconduct or fraud? Guess I'll find out this year when I see the lawyer to determine what really went on in that office. Lets also not forget that some valiant Phd capsules are known to be defective http://www.brooks.af.mil/dis/HOT/valiantphd.htm (Only the physical properties of the amalgam are changed? BS) But, in spite of all that you "know" I'm crazy because you believe or chose to participate in the propagation of the systematic lies of the ADA. And no matter the defective product, crazy dentist or well known mechanisms of amalgam breakdown and high levels of copper in my blood it "cannot be the filling". Maybe at some point during your lifetime you will actually get a clue, or choose not to participate professionally in the orchestrated deception of the ADA. Now run along and go back into the crack in the ground you crawled out of. I'm not defending amalgam. I am pointing out that you make very little sense in your arguments against it. I haven't used amalgam for over 20 years and it wouldn't bother me if it were gone tomorrow. You are delusional, your friend on here is a fruitcake (albeit a mean spirited one). Fawks >>Tin hat. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > amalgam in the face of the known scientific evidence. And why do you > care anyway? >I'm not defending amalgam. I am pointing out that you make very >little sense in your arguments against it. I haven't used amalgam >for over 20 years and it wouldn't bother me if it were gone tomorrow. You still drill out old amalgam, and therefore no one is safe from Jan! Joel >You are delusional, your friend on here is a fruitcake (albeit a >mean spirited one). [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> amalgam in the face of the known scientific evidence. And why do you >> care anyway? Different heads of the same body. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > > I'm not defending amalgam. I am pointing out that you make very [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> amalgam in the face of the known scientific evidence. And why do you >> care anyway? > Different heads of the same body. i almost forgot about Jackass number2. Another dentist who doesn't care about how much Hg crap they shovel into the population. You'd think you would have shut your mouth after attacking me for lying about being in Mensa/ acusing me of being Jan and I had to waste my time to post proof to the contrary. Now your running your ADA asskissing mouth again. Ever going to apologize or admit like a real man that you were even wrong about the first repeatedly made accusation, or you just going to keep the manure dripping from your mouth. > I'm not defending amalgam. I am pointing out that you make very > little sense in your arguments against it. I make perfect 100% sense. you just can't understand science. That's also why you never reply specifically to any of the points I make or attempt to describe the chemistry of amalgam in any amount of detail, other than to say 'it's safe'. I haven't used amalgam > for over 20 years and it wouldn't bother me if it were gone tomorrow. > > your friend on here is a fruitcake (albeit a > mean spirited one). Jan is not my friend. I am an Hg poisoned athiest. That means I was Hg POISONED AND I am going to HELL....bummer > You are delusional This is like arguing with a kindergartner. Accusing me of what you are? Listen you Jackass. How am i delusional? That my records are missing? That valiant phd capsules are known defective? That my dentist had to be locked out of the practice? that among other indicators of toxicity such as below normal/thyroid, higher kidney creatnine etc I also had elevated copper (and even elevated Hg in my hair) That one of my ex dentists assistants had to fired for incompentence? That my ex-dentist wandered the country after leaving the practice in some kind of a daze with 17 different address? That my denist was practicing with Aids and Aids can cause mental confusion in the early stages of the disease? That research in the 90's shows gamma-two's to be unstable? That published peer reviewed studies show people with enough elemental Hg from amalgam to exceed the threshhold for micromercurialsim? and much more... all EASILY provable. You are the stupidest kind of person there is, which is you form a conclusion (that amalgam is safe) and let that fit your intrepretation of the facts, no matter what the evidence is to the contrary. You dental types also seem to think you can screw somebody once and then after you ruin their lives, screw them again by labeling them as crazy....That going to dental school gave you liscence to lie about the real properties of amalgam and expose the entire population (including kids) to that crap and a psychologists liscence to try to put them in the nuthouse if they have a bad reaction to it. In my opinion you are neither professionals, scientists or psychologists, though a substantial number of dentists do seem to be nutty and also have a very high chance of commiting suicide. Another good reason to keep yourself and your family away from them and Hg. > > I'm not defending amalgam. I am pointing out that you make very > > little sense in your arguments against it. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > Another good reason to keep yourself and your family away from them and > Hg. This last paragraph explains a lot of the things you and others say on this usenet group. I now have a better perspective of the things I read here. Dr. Bonilla > This last paragraph explains a lot of the things you and others say on > this usenet group. I now have a better perspective of the things I read > here. > Dr. Bonilla By the way I do not mean to imply that dentistry is not a legitamite profession. From what I have learned, correctly practiced it can be as/or more demanding than any medical specialty. Only that the ADA's behavior is not science based and therefore not professional in my opinion. Also I am very un-happy with the medical profession which is just as much to blame for these issues IMO. (After all everyone who goes to a dentist goes to a doctor for a yearly check up and doctors are aware of the presence of Hg in amalgam). >Also I am very un-happy with the medical profession which is just >as much to blame for these issues IMO. (After all everyone who >goes to a dentist goes to a doctor for a yearly check up and doctors >are aware of the presence of Hg in amalgam). Organized medicine? >By the way I do not mean to imply that dentistry is not a legitamite >profession. From what I have learned, correctly practiced it can be >as/or more demanding than any medical specialty. Only that the ADA's >behavior is not science based and therefore not professional in my >opinion. What is your opinion about mercury fillings.? Are they pizin? > I'm not defending amalgam. I am pointing out that you make very > little sense in your arguments against it. I haven't used amalgam > for over 20 years and it wouldn't bother me if it were gone tomorrow. > Fawks SF, if you don't mind me asking (and I'm not asking for a course in dentistry) what would you use in those deep boxes like the ones I posted last week? We know that DrS would Am it for three weeks and then CEREC it. W_B would put adrenalin in it until it stopped bleeding and then probably Fuji 9 it and then composite over top, or he'd bash the lady's head in for being so stoopid in letting her mouth get so far... and I'd do what I did: Am; end of story. Jeff Brucia would Fuji II LC it and then composite over top (he showed us some photos of those)... but that is hard to do when it's that deep. Is there any other alternative? Thanks SP SignatureFinally: take out the TRASHH and pull in the 9's >> I'm not defending amalgam. I am pointing out that you make very >> little sense in your arguments against it. I haven't used amalgam [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Thanks >SP Extraction. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Is there any other alternative? > >Thanks > >SP > > Extraction. > -- Ummmm....... OK... SP SignatureFinally: take out the TRASHH |
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