Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / March 2005
Interesting NICO information!
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Joel M. Eichen - 16 Mar 2005 12:41 GMT RE: Reading post on Dentist-forum.net
Thanks for the information!
Joel
Sarah's Email <bank/blank@blank.net> wrote:
You know Joel, you might study up on the recent osteo necrotic jaw data. Also, have you read this
March 15, 2005 Drug linked to death of jawbone
By Rita Rubin, USA TODAY
Salvatore Ruggiero was puzzled.
Over a three-year period, the jaws of dozens of patients who had undergone oral surgery at his hospital had failed to heal properly. Part of the jawbone had died and become exposed.><snip>
-----Original Message----- From: Mr Joel Eichen [mailto:joeleichen@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 6:39 PM To: Sarah's Email Subject: Re: Reading post on Dentist-forum.net
If you mean NICO, there is absolutely no record of that disease on Pub Med, the Natrional Library of Medicine! Do we accept the word of established researchers, or do we accept the word of alternative, quack, money-grubbing practitioners?
Joel M. Eichen DDS
Sarah's Email wrote:
Dear Doctor,
Your posts about Osteo necrotic jaws, are very disturbing to a patient who has suffered chronic OM in my mandible for 17months now! Here we are, sick as dogs, and you dentists make jokes and act like children. I am a 58yr old grandmother, and am a medical care giver, as a Physical Therapist, and Ive never read such disrespectful attitudes toward a group of people who are ill, and hurting!
My husband also has Prostate Cancer, and on our support forum alone, we have had three men who have contracted ONJ due to taking bisphosphonates, and having dental procedures during their treatments. Treatmentes aimed at keeping them from getting osteoporosis while on Hormone therapy. World renowned prostate researcher and oncologist, Dr. Snuffy Myers has warned all of his patients, that while taking Fosamax, or other brands of bishphosphonates, they should NOT have any dental surgery, or invasive dental treatments! WE are not amused with the lack of help, knowledge, and zero research being done by the ADA to help patients with ONJ/ Osteo Necrotic Jaws!!
Sadly,
Sarah
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Dr Steve - 16 Mar 2005 13:35 GMT > World renowned prostate researcher and oncologist, > Dr. "Snuffy" Myers has warned all of his patients, that while taking > Fosamax, or other brands of bishphosphonates, they should NOT have any > dental surgery, or invasive dental treatments! Is the above quote real?
Joel M. Eichen - 16 Mar 2005 14:10 GMT >> World renowned prostate researcher and oncologist, >> Dr. "Snuffy" Myers has warned all of his patients, that while taking >> Fosamax, or other brands of bishphosphonates, they should NOT have any >> dental surgery, or invasive dental treatments! > >Is the above quote real? I guess...... she sent this to me by e-mail ......
Another post called attention to, "Phossy Jaw" which apparently is a real phenomenon.
Joel
Dr Steve - 16 Mar 2005 14:28 GMT >>> World renowned prostate researcher and oncologist, >>> Dr. "Snuffy" Myers has warned all of his patients, that while taking [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I guess...... she sent this to me by e-mail ...... I thought it sounded made up. Dr. "Snuffy" the proctologist giving dental advice.
LeFort3 - 17 Mar 2005 02:04 GMT I have a case now that I am strongly suspicious as a biphosphate induced necrosis. A well controlled diabetic also treated for osteoporosis that had a spicule removed by her dentist now has a nickel sized area of necrotic bone on the lingual area of #17. Tooth was removed 'years' ago. Looks just like ORN but she never had radiation tx. First time I have encountered such a case, if so. I will send some specimens to r/o other stuff like osteo but I wont be suprised when it comes back as dead bone.
Steven Bornfeld - 17 Mar 2005 04:25 GMT > I have a case now that I am strongly suspicious as a biphosphate > induced necrosis. A well controlled diabetic also treated for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > specimens to r/o other stuff like osteo but I wont be suprised when it > comes back as dead bone. When is this going to get some mainstream press? The irony is these drugs are supposed to increase the density of good, sound bone.
Steve
 Signature Cut the nonsense to reply
clintonz@prodigy.net - 17 Mar 2005 04:35 GMT > When is this going to get some mainstream press? The irony is these
> drugs are supposed to increase the density of good, sound bone. > > Steve There was a story on Yahoo about it the other day.
Dave King - 17 Mar 2005 15:35 GMT >> I have a case now that I am strongly suspicious as a biphosphate >> induced necrosis. A well controlled diabetic also treated for [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Steve There is a down side to increased density; decreased blood supply. I have been hearing more about this but if this is due to fosamax, this will be the first time I have seen it. Other than her being a well-controlled diabetic, there really isn't much else explaining it. She has been on fosamax for a good long while.
Dave
The Webby - 23 Mar 2005 05:20 GMT > >> I have a case now that I am strongly suspicious as a biphosphate > >> induced necrosis. A well controlled diabetic also treated for [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Dave Fosamax was approved Sept. 29, 1995. When it was prescribed for me in 2000, the enclosed pamphlet referred to, per my recollection, seven years experience. I didn't that that was long enough... I didn't want to put that powerful drug into my body!!! I think this is extremely concerning.
Webby
The Webby - 23 Mar 2005 05:15 GMT > > I have a case now that I am strongly suspicious as a biphosphate > > induced necrosis. A well controlled diabetic also treated for [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Steve This is what I have been thinking. When???? I took a little time off from the usenet world, and what happened? I missed reading about this as it unfolded in smd. I paid the usual attention to my daily newspaper at home and never saw a word about it. Surely, I could have missed it. But if you can imagine my concern for a moment: In 2000, I had to have a history and physical to be cleared for surgery on my jaw. My maxillofacial surgeon wasn't sure about extractions until "they" got in there ... and the dentist wasn't clear about what she could do until "they" got in there. In the meantime, the IM doctor discovered osteoporosis and wanted to put me immediately (pre-op) on Fosamax and HRT. That would have involved only a couple of weeks time pre-op, and then as soon as I could "consume" anything by mouth post-op, I would have been on the regime. I said no to the drugs initially, preferring to give it more thought. Post-op, I refused HRT and after about two months, maybe three, I agreed with a second opinion from another of my doctors to take the Fosamax for a period of time to see how I felt about it all. I decided after about a month of the drug that I was too worried about "the unknown". The pamphlet said that there were seven years' experience with the drug. I thought that I was too young to worry about the affects of a drug I would need to take for the rest of my life (until they found a better one, of course). Anyway, over the past four and a half years, I've wondered about my decision. Last September, my doctor encouraged me to take HRT as a measure to prevent progression of the disease. I was not at all happy about my decision but I have been on the treatment for about six months now... and ready to bail out.
.... Webby ... (I'm running low on mental energy this evening)
Dave King - 29 Mar 2005 18:04 GMT >> I have a case now that I am strongly suspicious as a biphosphate >> induced necrosis. A well controlled diabetic also treated for [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Steve I just received a draft copy of a paper written by the man himself; Dr. Robert Marx. It is a case study and management of over 100 cases of biphosphate induced necrosis. It is currently in review for publication in the Journal of OMS so I cant post it. The Chairman of the DE residency program forwarded it to me. Interesting stuff.
Dave
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 29 Mar 2005 18:06 GMT > I just received a draft copy of a paper written by the man himself; > Dr. Robert Marx. It is a case study and management of over 100 cases [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Dave Tease.
Steve
 Signature Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001
Dave King - 29 Mar 2005 19:24 GMT >> I just received a draft copy of a paper written by the man himself; >> Dr. Robert Marx. It is a case study and management of over 100 cases [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Steve Ok, Ok....one little tidbit equates the bone formation resembling osteopetrosis and the heavy implicators are the IV meds with less incidence with the PO, according to his study.
I hope you feel alittle better now ;)
Dave
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 29 Mar 2005 20:13 GMT >>>I just received a draft copy of a paper written by the man himself; >>>Dr. Robert Marx. It is a case study and management of over 100 cases [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Dave Yeah. Got anything for gas?
Steve
 Signature Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001
Dr Steve - 29 Mar 2005 20:22 GMT -- >
> Yeah. Got anything for gas? > > Steve An SUV ??
W_B - 29 Mar 2005 22:25 GMT >> Ok, Ok....one little tidbit equates the bone formation resembling >> osteopetrosis and the heavy implicators are the IV meds with less [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Steve Yeah, about $2.25/gal.
-- W_B
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE
The Webby - 29 Mar 2005 20:55 GMT > >> I just received a draft copy of a paper written by the man himself; > >> Dr. Robert Marx. It is a case study and management of over 100 cases [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Dave I feel much better **knowing** that I know better than to take alendronate/Fosamax for the treatment of osteoporosis. The ****last*** thing I would need would be ONJ. -- I'll take my WHO classification of Osteoporosis with high risk of fracture any day ... but I will not take any additional risks of more jaw bone destruction than I currently have.
Webby
The Webby - 23 Mar 2005 05:04 GMT > I have a case now that I am strongly suspicious as a biphosphate > induced necrosis. A well controlled diabetic also treated for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > specimens to r/o other stuff like osteo but I wont be suprised when it > comes back as dead bone. I'm extremely concerned about this *personally* as well as in general, of course.
Webby
The Webby - 23 Mar 2005 06:09 GMT Another terminology complication. Someone uses the term NICO, and everyone screams that NICO is not a valid diagnosis. Now we are linking NICO with osteonecrosis involving the maxillofacial area ... what service and diservice are we doing to the patients of the world?
Webby
In article <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-950AFB.20065722032005@orngca-news02.soca l.rr.com>,
> > I have a case now that I am strongly suspicious as a biphosphate > > induced necrosis. A well controlled diabetic also treated for [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Webby Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 23 Mar 2005 17:35 GMT > Another terminology complication. Someone uses the term NICO, and > everyone screams that NICO is not a valid diagnosis. Now we are linking > NICO with osteonecrosis involving the maxillofacial area ... what > service and diservice are we doing to the patients of the world? > > Webby This is semantical. The problem for most dentists is that NICO is used mostly as a cudgel to bash endodontic treatment. If this prevents us from recognizing a new clinical entity related to bis-phosphonates, there is no reason IMO to embrace the historical baggage attached to the acronym "NICO". I'd sooner have it given another name if that will help with recognition of the problem.
Steve
> In article > <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-950AFB.20065722032005@orngca-news02.soca [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> >>Webby
 Signature Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001
NOYB - 29 Mar 2005 18:59 GMT > RE: Reading post on Dentist-forum.net > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > undergone oral surgery at his hospital had failed to heal properly. > Part of the jawbone had died and become exposed.><snip> Source: North Shore-Long Island Jewish Health System Date: 2004-12-30 URL: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/12/041220005619.htm
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Doctors Link Common Chemotherapy Drug To Jawbone Necrosis NEW HYDE PARK, NY -- Doctors at Long Island Jewish (LIJ) Medical Center recently discovered a link between a common chemotherapy drug and a serious bone disease called osteonecrosis of the jaw (ONJ). The discovery, published in the Journal of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons, prompted both the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and Novartis, the manufacturer of bisphosphonates used in cancer chemotherapy, to issue warnings earlier this fall to physicians and dentists about the risk for this potential adverse effect. ONJ is a condition in which the bone tissue in the jaw fails to heal after minor trauma such as a tooth extraction, causing the bone to be exposed. The exposure can eventually lead to infection and fracture and may require long-term antibiotic therapy or surgery to remove the dying bone tissue.
The chief of the Division of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery at LIJ, Salvatore Ruggiero, DMD, MD, and his staff reported that they were struck by a cluster of cancer patients with necrotic lesions in the jaw -- a condition they rarely saw, in only about one to two patients a year. When they launched a study of patients' charts, they found that 63 patients diagnosed with this condition over a three-year period shared only one common clinical feature: they had all received long-term bisphosphonate therapy.
Bisphosphonates are commonly used in tablet form to prevent and treat osteoporosis in post-menopausal women. Stronger forms are widely used in the management of advanced cancers that have metastasized to the bone, where the disease often causes bone pain and possibly even fractures. Several cancers can involve or metastasize to the bone, including lung, breast, prostate, multiple myeloma and others. In cancer chemotherapy, the drugs are given intravenously, and usually for long periods of time.
In their study, Dr. Ruggiero and his staff teamed up with Bhoomi Mehrotra, MD, in the Division of Hematology-Oncology at LIJ, and doctors in the Oral-Maxillofacial Surgery Division at the University of Maryland Medical Center. Of the 63 patients diagnosed with ONJ between February 2001 and November 2003 at their centers, 56 were cancer patients who had received infusions of bisphosphonates for at least a year and seven were non-cancer patients who had been receiving long-term oral therapy for osteoporosis. The patients developed ONJ after normal bone trauma, such as a tooth extraction, while receiving bisphosphonate therapy. Rather than healing, the bone began to die, and the majority of patients required surgery to remove the diseased bone.
In the FDA MedWatch and Novartis alerts issued in late September, oncologists and dentists were advised of the addition of osteonecrosis of the jaw to the "Precautions" and "Adverse Reactions" sections on the labeling of injectable bisphosphonates, describing the spontaneous reports of the condition being found mostly in cancer patients. The alerts also recommend a dental examination with appropriate preventive dentistry in patients with risk factors such as cancer, chemotherapy, corticosteroids and poor oral hygiene prior to initiating treatment with bisphosphonates.
"Monitoring the dental health of patients on bisphosphonates is key because an early diagnosis may reduce the complications resulting from advanced destruction of the jaw bone," said Dr. Ruggiero. "Since our paper was published and dentists became aware of the connection, many more patients with the condition have been identified, even in our own center. Prevention and early detection are so important to preserving the jaw bone in these individuals." Individuals should attempt to avoid tooth extractions and other major dental work while on the drugs.
Bisphosphonates block the work of bone cells called osteoclasts, one of two important types of bone cells that are involved in the continuous process of bone remodeling in a delicate balancing act. During this process, osteoblasts -- "the good guys"-- put calcium in the matrix of the bone and make bone stronger, and osteoclasts -- "the bad guys" -- take calcium away, diminishing the internal strength of the bone. Bone remodeling is like a necessary game of tug-of-war between the goods guys and the bad. Bone mass and mineral content constantly adjust throughout the life cycle to support the places on the skeleton where the most outside force occurs.
Novartis's Aredia? (pamidronate disodium) and Zometa? (zoledronic acid) injections are the two intravenous bisphophosphonates used in chemotherapy regimens. Novartis changed their labeling in August. Merck's Fosamax? (alendronate) and Procter and Gamble Pharmaceuticals's Actonel? (risedronate sodium) are the most commonly used oral bisphosphonates, which are only indicated for osteoporosis. Labeling for the oral forms has not been changed. "The oral form is much less potent than the intravenous form and appears to be substantially less likely to cause the problem," said Dr. Ruggiero.
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