Hi Everyone,
I'm hoping someone may be able to give me some advice concerning some
reconstructive work I need to have done. My problems stem from a fall
I had several years ago in which I hit my chin on a counter full force.
My top front two teeth were both shattered, #9 (I think) sustained the
most damage and was pushed and twisted inwards. I was twenty-one at
the time and did not have a lot of money to spend, so the dentist I was
seeing thought he should perform a root canal on the most heavily
damaged, and then shape them both into posts' for two crowns. He
charged me about two thousand for this. Since then, I have had to have
a root canal on one of the other teeth (#11 if my guess about #9 is
correct) and currently have a temporary crown. I started having
problems with #9 around 10wks ago. My symptoms consisted of pain
around the tooth, pressure and a kind of itchy feeling. I went to my
dentist where he took an xray. The tooth had started disolving just
above the gum line and was in danger of breaking. He referred me to a
prosthodontist in our area and gave me pain and antibotic medications.
When I called to make my appointment, I was told that my first visit
would need to be paid in full, but from then on, they would bill my
insurance directly. Upon meeting with the doctor, he said the xray the
previous doctor had taken (it was given to me as photo) was not good
enough and he would need to take another xray. After looking at the
xray, he said that the tooth was broken and would need to be extracted.
He had his assistant work up the list of prices, and gave me two
options. The first option (after extraction) was an implant. This
would cost around $4500. This included the post, the build up (I say
build up, but it is actually the piece the crown sits on and screws
into the post), and the crown. She also stated that this would include
a new crown for #10 which would help them match. The second option was
for a bridge with two crowns. This would cost approx $2700. The
doctor then came around, and said that I should see one of his
colleagues about the extraction. Upon paying my bill($105), they gave
me some literature to help with the financing of procedure (the plans
all had a 13% interest rate). When I asked the assistant for a copy of
the estimate, she declined and said that should couldn't give me a
copy, but could write down the prices for me.
When I went for my second consulatation, the new prosthodontist
explained to me the differences between the two procedures (the implant
and bridge) and also told me about the extraction (It had something to
do with using some type of bone(cow or corpse) material to help rebuild
and strengthen the bone for the implant, and something about this
helping the jaw over the long haul). Anyway, he also said he needed to
take some more xrays and pointed out several other teeth (I have had
another one (#14) removed) and also wanted xrays of those teeth. He
then said that I would need to have either an implant with the two
crowns, or possibly a bridge with four crowns. He also said #14 (which
I hadn't asked about) was a perfect candidate for an implant and crown.
He had his assistant work up a new price sheet (I don't remeber the
figures, but they were higher and included the replacement of #14 added
to the workload). She also stated that I was required to pay for this
visit as they did not bill insurance directly. I asked her if this
would be the case when the procedure was performed, and she said yes.
I told her I did not have the resources for this type of expense and
she directed me again to their financing options. When I went to check
out I was charged $180 and told that when they received the payments
from the insurance company, they would send me the reimbursement. They
also had me go ahead and schedule the extraction date, and said this
would cost around $700. This included the extraction, bone impant?,
and flipper (which sounded suspiciously like something designed to
aggravate the wearer to death).
It has been about 3wks since my last visit, and I have received both
insurance statements, but still have not received either of the checks.
I called my dentist back, and asked for the name of another
prosthodontist in our area, as I was hoping to get a second opinion,
but that dentist office stated that they were not accepting any new
patients and tried to refer me to the prostho I had already seen. I
explained this to them, and they said I should look in Cincinatti,
which is about an hour away.
So I guess my questions boil down to:
1.) Does this sound fishy? I can understand a specialist charging a
lot, but to not work with a patients insurance seems a little odd, as
well as the numerous xrays.
2.) Does this expense (>$6000 when all said and done) seem reasonable
for the work involved? I live in south western ohio if it matters.
3.) Is it typical for a dentist office to have you work with others in
that office(other than cleanings)? I've been to large dentist offices
before, but have always seen my "regular" dentist.
4.) Should I look in Cincinatti prior to having the extraction done?
5.) Is it normal for an office to withhold procedure estimates?
6.) Is 13% interest a good rate? Seems I can get a personal loan from
the bank for around 9% (at least that was what it was 6mos ago).
Thanks for any help you can provide,
Frustrated,
Jess
Joel M. Eichen - 09 Mar 2005 13:19 GMT
>Hi Everyone,
> I'm hoping someone may be able to give me some advice concerning some
>reconstructive work I need to have done. My problems stem from a fall
>I had several years ago in which I hit my chin on a counter full force.
Yup happens .....
> My top front two teeth were both shattered, #9 (I think) sustained the
>most damage and was pushed and twisted inwards. I was twenty-one at
>the time and did not have a lot of money to spend, so the dentist I was
>seeing thought he should perform a root canal on the most heavily
>damaged, and then shape them both into posts' for two crowns. He
>charged me about two thousand for this.
To me that IS a lot of money!
> Since then, I have had to have
>a root canal on one of the other teeth (#11 if my guess about #9 is
>correct) and currently have a temporary crown. I started having
>problems with #9 around 10wks ago.
Is there a current x-ray? If so what does it show? Can it be posted to
www.tinypic.com?
If it were my tooth and I wanted some diversity of opinion, I would
take the time and trouble to do that. Otherwise you are spitting in
the wind with advice.
>My symptoms consisted of pain
>around the tooth, pressure and a kind of itchy feeling.
Abscess?
> I went to my
>dentist where he took an xray. The tooth had started disolving just
>above the gum line and was in danger of breaking.
Oh I want to see that!
> He referred me to a
>prosthodontist in our area and gave me pain and antibotic medications.
>
> When I called to make my appointment, I was told that my first visit
>would need to be paid in full, but from then on, they would bill my
>insurance directly.
How much?
>Upon meeting with the doctor, he said the xray the
>previous doctor had taken (it was given to me as photo) was not good
>enough
OK this means there is an electronic version that can be e-mailed to
you and then transmitted to us!
>and he would need to take another xray. After looking at the
>xray, he said that the tooth was broken and would need to be extracted.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>into the post), and the crown. She also stated that this would include
>a new crown for #10 which would help them match.
One implant, two crowns ...... okay.
> The second option was
>for a bridge with two crowns. This would cost approx $2700.
Three-unit bridge. This depends on the condition of the adjacent teeth
bringing us back to .... x-ray!
>The
>doctor then came around, and said that I should see one of his
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>the estimate, she declined and said that should couldn't give me a
>copy, but could write down the prices for me.
K
>When I went for my second consulatation, the new prosthodontist
>explained to me the differences between the two procedures (the implant
>and bridge) and also told me about the extraction (It had something to
>do with using some type of bone(cow or corpse)
I prefer the cow except of course when I am at Chick-Fil-A.
>material to help rebuild
>and strengthen the bone for the implant, and something about this
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>crowns, or possibly a bridge with four crowns. He also said #14 (which
>I hadn't asked about) was a perfect candidate for an implant and crown.
YUP, I know that already.
Do not ask me how I know.
> He had his assistant work up a new price sheet (I don't remeber the
>figures, but they were higher and included the replacement of #14 added
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>I told her I did not have the resources for this type of expense and
>she directed me again to their financing options.
Okay, Bye.
> When I went to check
>out I was charged $180 and told that when they received the payments
>from the insurance company, they would send me the reimbursement. They
>also had me go ahead and schedule the extraction date, and said this
>would cost around $700.
WoW!
This should take ten minutes!
Joel
> This included the extraction, bone impant?,
>and flipper (which sounded suspiciously like something designed to
>aggravate the wearer to death).
Okay.
>It has been about 3wks since my last visit, and I have received both
>insurance statements, but still have not received either of the checks.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>explained this to them, and they said I should look in Cincinatti,
>which is about an hour away.
You do not need a fancy schmancy prosthodontist. You need a competent
DENTIST!
Joel
>So I guess my questions boil down to:
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>4.) Should I look in Cincinatti prior to having the extraction done?
YUP, you do not live on the West Coast by any chance do you?
>5.) Is it normal for an office to withhold procedure estimates?
I dunno ,,,,,,,,,,
>6.) Is 13% interest a good rate?
Nope.
>Seems I can get a personal loan from
>the bank for around 9% (at least that was what it was 6mos ago).
Better. Can you SAVE some money fro myour job? This is an important
question here!
Joel
>Thanks for any help you can provide,
>
>Frustrated,
>Jess
Dr Steve - 09 Mar 2005 15:07 GMT
......................
"Jesse Charbneau wrote"
> When I called to make my appointment, I was told that my first visit
> would need to be paid in full, but from then on, they would bill my
> insurance directly. Upon meeting with the doctor, he said the xray the
> previous doctor had taken (it was given to me as photo) was not good
> enough and he would need to take another xray.
That happens some times.
>After looking at the
> xray, he said that the tooth was broken and would need to be extracted.
> Could be reasonable. No way for me to say with seeing you or the images.
> He had his assistant work up the list of prices, and gave me two
> options. The first option (after extraction) was an implant. This
> would cost around $4500.
Slightly on the high side, but we are talking about a specialist who has
higher fees than a GP.
>This included the post, the build up (I say
> build up, but it is actually the piece the crown sits on and screws
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> the estimate, she declined and said that should couldn't give me a
> copy, but could write down the prices for me.
I never heard of you not getting a copy of the estimate. You are entitled
to a copy of any records they create. The office cannot bill you more than
the cost of making copies at Kinko's to give you a copy. Care Credit does a
lot of financing for our office. Interest rates vary by how the financing
is done. Ofen they will offer a period of time with zero interest
(providing you pay if off by the due date). Also, you can always go to a
bank and arrange for a personal loan.
> When I went for my second consulatation, the new prosthodontist
> explained to me the differences between the two procedures (the implant
> and bridge) and also told me about the extraction (It had something to
> do with using some type of bone(cow or corpse) material to help rebuild
> and strengthen the bone for the implant, and something about this
> helping the jaw over the long haul).
Bone grafting is probably crucial in a case where there has been long
standing irritation in the bone.
> Anyway, he also said he needed to
> take some more xrays and pointed out several other teeth (I have had
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> figures, but they were higher and included the replacement of #14 added
> to the workload).
They should offer you a treatment plan for both areas, and separate ones for
each area, so you can choose among your various options properly.
>She also stated that I was required to pay for this
> visit as they did not bill insurance directly. I asked her if this
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> out I was charged $180 and told that when they received the payments
> from the insurance company, they would send me the reimbursement.
The dental office has chosen not to deal with the headaches of trying to get
"your" insurance company to pay for services. They have chosen this route
rather than deal with the thousands of different policies and different
reimbursement levels. This way, they bill you, you pay, and the insurance
company pays to "you" whatever your benefits are for the procedure.
> They
> also had me go ahead and schedule the extraction date, and said this
> would cost around $700. This included the extraction, bone impant?,
> and flipper (which sounded suspiciously like something designed to
> aggravate the wearer to death).
The flipper is a device for you to wear for a few months while the sork is
healing and being fabricated. That way you do not have to walk around with
a missing front tooth. $700 for a surgical extraction, grafting and a
flipper is very reasonable.
> It has been about 3wks since my last visit, and I have received both
> insurance statements, but still have not received either of the checks.
Most insurance carriers will send a copy of the EOB to the patient 2-3 weeks
before they actually mail the check. The dental office may not have
recieved the actual check yet. If the check is issued from an out-of-state
bank, the dental office's bank may refuse to clear the funds for 3-6 days
(depending on their policies). Normally, you should expect a 4 week delay
before getting re-imbursed from the dental office. If you are always paying
the full amount and waiting for reimbursement from the insurance carrier,
you can ask to have the check sent to your house. If you are only doing
this on the first 1-3 visits, then that is not an option.
> So I guess my questions boil down to:
>
> 1.) Does this sound fishy? I can understand a specialist charging a
> lot, but to not work with a patients insurance seems a little odd, as
> well as the numerous xrays.
For what you are describing, expect lots of x-ray images to be needed as the
work progresses as well as at the beginning.
> 2.) Does this expense (>$6000 when all said and done) seem reasonable
> for the work involved? I live in south western ohio if it matters.
For a surgical extraction, grafting, flipper, two implants, and restoring
both implants, YES it is a good price.
> 3.) Is it typical for a dentist office to have you work with others in
> that office(other than cleanings)? I've been to large dentist offices
> before, but have always seen my "regular" dentist.
Many of the larger offices will do this.
> 4.) Should I look in Cincinatti prior to having the extraction done?
You should probably get a second (or third) opinion somewhere.
> 5.) Is it normal for an office to withhold procedure estimates?
No it is not.
> 6.) Is 13% interest a good rate? Seems I can get a personal loan from
> the bank for around 9% (at least that was what it was 6mos ago).
Stop in at your own bank and see what they will offer you.

Signature
~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................
This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.