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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / March 2005

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Consumer question - services pricing in advance?

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georgecomstock@gmail.com - 02 Mar 2005 19:21 GMT
Hello-  I have some sincere questions...which searching archived
discussions don't seem to answer.  Sorry if I've simply missed them.

My problem -how can I get a ballpark estimate of costs before
committing to the expense of an exam / xray appointment?  Sure, I
understand "it depends"  and if there's anything beyond the two
cavities I know about there could be a whole range of choices and
costs.  There seem to be hundreds of dentists in offices near my home,
but the dozen I've called will tell me what an office visit costs, but
won't advise what price range "standard" fillings fall within.  Not
wanting to be pushy, or to misuse information (eg. the receptionist
told me fillings only cost $X).  But as a typical consumer (albeit
without insurance) isn't it reasonable to have "some idea" of costs
without "paying for the quote?"   Is there available some kind of
"reasonable and customary" fee schedule, such as those used by
insurance companies, that can be reviewed by members of the
public...without me hassling dental offices on the phone?

1.  How should an uninsured consumer best navigate the world of dental
providers in their community if the financial aspect is a major
limiting concern?  I'm not looking for "the world's greatest dentist"
but it would be nice to have the rough financial component to include
(along with education, convenience of location, or any referral
testimonials).  Is the unwillingness to disclose cost info an
anachronistic  "mystique of the guild" habit, a anti-competitive
strategy, or simply self-defense?  I called the office of my last
dentist (10 years since last visit, but I'm now living 50 miles away)
and now that I'm uninsured, they are similarly unwilling to discuss any
costs before I'm xrayed and examined.

2.  I recognize that the 1-800-Dentist type services which advertise
themselves as providing valuable info to consumers are merely a clever
advertising medium for dentists (not knocking, just saying).

3.  How widely do charges vary within a small local area?

I'm not trying to use pricing info manipulatively, or denigrate any
professionals choices about how they deal with customers.  But I *am*
planning to be a customer, and after spending a couple hundred dollars
(exam / xrays)  how can I even know if their estimated costs for the
following procedures (which I'm assuming now are going to be fillings
on two small caries on the front surface of two front teeth, right at
the gumline) are "reasonable and customary?"  Without getting exams
from each second opinion?

In the past, while insured, it was somewhat off-putting how many
different fee scales my dentist seemed to use- different prices
depending on type of insurance, and significantly discounted prices for
cash customers.  All of this suggests there *is* a minimum net price
which each dentist accepts, and I don't resent their wanting to at
least maintain, if not enhance their income.
W_B - 02 Mar 2005 22:20 GMT
> But as a typical consumer (albeit
>without insurance) isn't it reasonable to have "some idea" of costs
>without "paying for the quote?"  

Nope. Even a roofer wants to look at the condition before
giving a 'quote'.
Doctors call this a diagnosis, and yes they charge for it.

Would you expect over the phone quotes from your friendly
local brain and heart surgeons.

>Is there available some kind of
>"reasonable and customary" fee schedule, such as those used by
>insurance companies, that can be reviewed by members of the
>public...without me hassling dental offices on the phone?

Insurance companies compile such information for their own use.
It is considered proprietary and not even available to dentists.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Jorge Bonilla - 02 Mar 2005 22:49 GMT
> Hello-  I have some sincere questions...which searching archived
> discussions don't seem to answer.  Sorry if I've simply missed them.
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
> which each dentist accepts, and I don't resent their wanting to at
> least maintain, if not enhance their income.

I understand how you feel. The problem is that giving a quote for
restoring a tooth without having examined the patient is ususally a
recipe for disaster. I could say my fees vary from $40 to almost $1000
for restoring a front tooth. It will depend on what I would have to do
to restore it. I understand that this will be of little or no use to
the patient, but I wouldn't know what we are going to do without an
exam and X-rays. It all comes down to selecting a dentist you can
trust. Ask your friends or check with your other healthcare providers.
Who do they trust their families' care to?
Dr. Bonilla
Joel M. Eichen - 02 Mar 2005 23:01 GMT
>Hello-  I have some sincere questions...which searching archived
>discussions don't seem to answer.  Sorry if I've simply missed them.
>
>My problem -how can I get a ballpark estimate of costs before
>committing to the expense of an exam / xray appointment?

Ask here.

> Sure, I
>understand "it depends"  and if there's anything beyond the two
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>which each dentist accepts, and I don't resent their wanting to at
>least maintain, if not enhance their income.
DrSteve - 03 Mar 2005 02:04 GMT
Fixing a tooth can range from $100 to $2500 depending on what needs to be
done.  If you know a way to tell what needs to be done on which teeth
without the exam and x-ray images, please let me know.  Ask a friend or
co-worker for a referral.  Word-of-mouth is the only reliable way for a
consumer to compare dental offices.  Stay away from the 1-800 folks, and
Local fees will vary by 5-30% depending on what you are near.

> Hello-  I have some sincere questions...which searching archived
> discussions don't seem to answer.  Sorry if I've simply missed them.
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
> which each dentist accepts, and I don't resent their wanting to at
> least maintain, if not enhance their income.
carabelli - 03 Mar 2005 05:01 GMT
> Fixing a tooth can range from $100 to $2500 depending on what needs to be
> done.  If you know a way to tell what needs to be done on which teeth
> without the exam and x-ray images, please let me know.  Ask a friend or
> co-worker for a referral.  Word-of-mouth is the only reliable way for a
> consumer to compare dental offices.  Stay away from the 1-800 folks, and
> Local fees will vary by 5-30% depending on what you are near.

And my take, if you are new to the area try calling a few specialist's
offices.  Ask the staff to ask the doc who she/he and their family goes to.

Dental specialists, periodontist, etc......

carabelli
georgecomstock@gmail.com - 03 Mar 2005 06:09 GMT
Thanks very much  for the replies!  ... to which I'll reply:

Turns out I *was*  able to find a price list (it was on one of those
cheesy dental plan websites).  And by hauling myself into a couple
offices and repeating my issue in person, did indeed find one doctor
who invested three minutes, looked at my smile, and opined "about $100
per tooth, unless there's something else going on."   I understood she
was indulging me by providing a curbside assessment.  And she perhaps
understood she was paying high rent, had just spent over $.5 M buidling
out her offices, worked in a very competitive neighborhood (eg. 10
dental offices for every Starbucks or Conroys), and maybe stooping to
conquer isn't bad  (eg. listen and respond to the consumer rather than
just burying them with advertising  and "$29 exam"  coupons).

Anyway, I really appreciate your thoughtful replies, and feel no
contentious scorn or consumer backlash type sentiments, LOL.  Your
generous and gregarious posting here is informative, entertaining and
thought provoking.  PS...if it turns out I actually need a couple
crowns, can you help me find a Tufts grad working in  Thailand (so the
discount can pay for my vacation)?   LOL,  just kidding..sort of...
Joel M. Eichen - 03 Mar 2005 11:58 GMT
>Anyway, I really appreciate your thoughtful replies, and feel no
>contentious scorn or consumer backlash type sentiments, LOL.  Your
>generous and gregarious posting here is informative, entertaining and
>thought provoking.  PS...if it turns out I actually need a couple
>crowns, can you help me find a Tufts grad working in  Thailand (so the
>discount can pay for my vacation)?   LOL,  just kidding..sort of...

Actually,,,,,,,,,, this was an advertisement from Dr. Lily.

Fooled ya Vaughn!

Joel
Rip - 09 Mar 2005 07:37 GMT
I have occasionally managed to get prices if I ask  for specific
treatments e.g.

Fillings Amalgam
1, 2,3,4, surfaces

Fillings Composite
1.2.3,4

Cleaning

X-ray

Crown Noble Metal
bicuspid, molar

Root Canal

etc

The weirdest dentist was one who, during a paid exam,  pretended he
was not sure and had to go into the back office to check. It was about
1 tooth which he examined; I asked about cost of filling or crown.
Joel M. Eichen - 09 Mar 2005 11:29 GMT
>etc
>
>The weirdest dentist was one who, during a paid exam,  pretended he
>was not sure and had to go into the back office to check. It was about
>1 tooth which he examined; I asked about cost of filling or crown.

He was checking your credit rating!

Joel
Steven Fawks - 09 Mar 2005 16:29 GMT
Guess I'm weird too.  I can't quote very many of my fees without
checking on the computer.  I'm busy deciding what is best for the
patient's dental health, not how much it is going to cost.  The
patient can get a written estimate at the front desk upon completion
of the diagnosis appt., but don't ask me to add it up while I'm
doing the exam.

Fawks

> The weirdest dentist was one who, during a paid exam,  pretended he
> was not sure and had to go into the back office to check. It was about
> 1 tooth which he examined; I asked about cost of filling or crown.
Dr Steve - 09 Mar 2005 17:38 GMT
Heck, I can't do anything in my office without looking at the computer
first.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
> Guess I'm weird too.  I can't quote very many of my fees without
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>> was not sure and had to go into the back office to check. It was about
>> 1 tooth which he examined; I asked about cost of filling or crown.
W_B - 09 Mar 2005 19:11 GMT
>Heck, I can't do anything in my office without looking at the computer
>first.

Paperless watercloset ?
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dr. Steve - 09 Mar 2005 22:23 GMT
>>Heck, I can't do anything in my office without looking at the computer
>>first.
>
>Paperless watercloset ?

soon
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting.
Joel M. Eichen - 09 Mar 2005 22:37 GMT
>>Heck, I can't do anything in my office without looking at the computer
>>first.
>
>Paperless watercloset ?

YUP, the air nozzles and the water nozzles ,,,, in the reverse order.
Joel M. Eichen - 09 Mar 2005 22:37 GMT
>Heck, I can't do anything in my office without looking at the computer
>first.

I heard your place is paperless ...........
Joel M. Eichen - 09 Mar 2005 22:36 GMT
>Guess I'm weird too.  I can't quote very many of my fees without
>checking on the computer.  I'm busy deciding what is best for the
>patient's dental health, not how much it is going to cost.  The
>patient can get a written estimate at the front desk upon completion
>of the diagnosis appt., but don't ask me to add it up while I'm
>doing the exam.

Abacus comes in handy here ..... joke.

I agree with you. NOT KNOWING the fees is more professional as well.

Joel

>Fawks
>
>> The weirdest dentist was one who, during a paid exam,  pretended he
>> was not sure and had to go into the back office to check. It was about
>> 1 tooth which he examined; I asked about cost of filling or crown.
 
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