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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / March 2005Who owns my mouth molds
I'm soon (Friday) to be seeing my prosthedontic clinic for a treatment discussion. Late last year he took two mouth molds and in the intervening period was to have worked on some treatment options. I uderstand that he will have discussed treatment plan options with a bone and a gum specialist as well. I don't know the reason for the two molds, whether it's to show the before/after comparison, or to allow him to build alternatives (more and less costly) for me to consider. However I'm sure that I'm in for a price shock and won't be sure enough to make a decision at the clinic, nor at home without reference to the molds, so I wondered if I could reasonably ask to take one (or both) molds home. What do you think? If I own the molds, having paid for the process thus far, might I be granted the use of them at home as I, er, chew things over? Brian  SignatureAuckland NEW ZEALAND The ownership of the moulds is a question for your local dental establishment. The local dental society or liscensing board. Personally, I would allow patients to take the models (moulds are used to make the models) home with them. I believe that this is a reasonable request. I would explain to the patient that they are delicate and that there is an expense in time and money to replace or repair them. Bottom line. Ask your dentist. The answer might help you decide on who should do your treatment for you. David Leader, DMD Lynnfield, Ma. >Personally, I would allow patients to take the models (moulds are used >to make the models) home with them. I believe that this is a >reasonable request. I would explain to the patient that they are >delicate and that there is an expense in time and money to replace or >repair them. Dentists never make models or moulds<sic> (molds). They may often use that terminology, but it is incorrect. Casts, or castings are often made. Learn the difference. You never own anything other than your *own* teeth, heart, feet, eyes, fingers, arms, legs, and other *thangs* Take care of your true possessions. To answer your question: the doctor always owns his/her records. You may request a copy to be sent to another doc. You have no right to originals, but may request copies. Bugger off biatch... SM disagrees with the legal position that I hold. Believe that we agree but state our position differently. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >>Personally, I would allow patients to take the models (moulds are used >>to make the models) home with them. I believe that this is a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Dentists never make models or moulds<sic> (molds). >They may often use that terminology, but it is incorrect. So there is no such thing as a moldy mouth ....? >Casts, or castings are often made. >Learn the difference. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >SM disagrees with the legal position that I hold. >Believe that we agree but state our position differently. >>>Personally, I would allow patients to take the models (moulds are used >>>to make the models) home with them. I believe that this is a >>>reasonable request. I would explain to the patient that they are >>>delicate and that there is an expense in time and money to replace or >>>repair them. Trivia: What guy from X-files used to make the molds? >Dentists never make models or moulds<sic> (molds). >They may often use that terminology, but it is incorrect. > >Casts, or castings are often made. >Learn the difference. To the contrary, the terms models and molds are quite correct. One makes a cast or casting or model from a mold. As used in dentistry a model and a casting are almost always interchangeable terms (although there are circumstances where a model may not be a casting). An appropriate definition of model is-- a representation to show the construction or appearance of something. An appropriate definition for a mold is-- a hollow form or matrix for giving a particular shape to something in a molten or plastic state. An appropriate definition for casting (or cast) is -- to form (metal, plaster, etc.) into a particular shape by pouring it into a mold in a fluid state and letting it harden. I occasionally browse this newsgroup and have only posted to it a few times. And while perhaps a trivial correction, I decided to make this post because I found something in the "sound" of your post irritating. My credentials for correcting you are 30 years as a dentist including years as full-time faculty member at NYU and a good dictionary. > An appropriate definition of model is-- a representation to show the > construction or appearance of something. > An appropriate definition for a mold is-- a hollow form or matrix for > giving a particular shape to something in a molten or plastic state. > An appropriate definition for casting (or cast) is -- to form (metal, > plaster, etc.) into a particular shape by pouring it into a mold in a > fluid state and letting it harden. Agree. SignatureBrian Auckland NEW ZEALAND If the dentist wanted to keep a copy they could make a duplicate for you. jwn dds > I'm soon (Friday) to be seeing my prosthedontic clinic for a treatment > discussion. Late last year he took two mouth molds and in the intervening [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Brian >If the dentist wanted to keep a copy they could make a duplicate for you. > >jwn dds I offer to give casts to the patient if they want them, for *whatever* reason. Otherwise casts go into the trash. New treatment always requires new castings, Why save old ones ? It just takes up space. If the patient wants them, give them to the patient after the treatment is done. Otherwise throw the casts in the trash. Damn, I said the same thing twice. Jd, Cz rubbin' off ? You decide. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE I only keep mine for ortho cases I've done. jwn dds >>If the dentist wanted to keep a copy they could make a duplicate for you. >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Take out the G'RBAGE >>If the dentist wanted to keep a copy they could make a duplicate for you. >> >>jwn dds > >I offer to give casts to the patient if they want them, >for *whatever* reason. We give them the mold, "the black mold scraped off the ceiling." Joel >Otherwise casts go into the trash. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Jd, Cz rubbin' off ? > You decide. > I offer to give casts to the patient if they want them, > for *whatever* reason. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > New treatment always requires new castings, > Why save old ones ? Medico-Legal reasons. Polysiloxane impressions are considered permanent legal records. SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> I offer to give casts to the patient if they want them, >> for *whatever* reason. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >legal records. >SP Then take a picture. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > >> I offer to give casts to the patient if they want them, > >> for *whatever* reason. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Then take a picture. > -- True.... SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet > However I'm sure that I'm in for a price shock and won't be sure enough to > make a decision at the clinic, nor at home without reference to the molds, > so I wondered if I could reasonably ask to take one (or both) molds home. > > What do you think? You paid for them, so they're yours. You can ask for them. If you lose/damage them, you will be charged for their replacement. If you're OK with this, then ask away. SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet SP, Study models are part of dental records and should be treated the same as X-rays. A small charge for duplicates would be acceptable. If it is a big case, chances are a 2nd set was made from the original impressions for a diagnostic wax up. I think quattrocchi would be better off asking for a duplicate of the models to make a decision and/or as paperweights for his desk ;-). SignatureRoy rem NADA to reply | > However I'm sure that I'm in for a price shock and won't be sure enough to | > make a decision at the clinic, nor at home without reference to the molds, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | OK with this, then ask away. | SP > SP, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I think quattrocchi would be better off asking for a duplicate of the > models to make a decision and/or as paperweights for his desk ;-). OK, Roy, this sounds reasonable. Actually, _we_ are taught to take as many records in Polysiloxane materials as possible-and keep the impressions. They can stay stable for years and years. Cheers SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> SP, >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Cheers >SP Keep the model during treatment only. If the patient doesn't want them afterward, Chunk em. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >>Not a real Addy, yet > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >-- >W_B Can't you simply toss them out instead of CHUNKING them? >>> SP, >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >If the patient doesn't want them afterward, >Chunk em. I photograph the models for my record, then toss them. Until treatment is complete, they are a part of the dental record. Afterwards, an image of the models is enough for me .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting. > I photograph the models for my record, then toss them. Until treatment > is complete, they are a part of the dental record. Afterwards, an > image of the models is enough for me > .. > Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. _YOU_ could scan your models (casts, moulds) into 3D images with your CERECtotic machine. Whyn't y'all do _that_? It'd be a helluva lot more accurate, I'll wager.... [but then, I'll drink to anything...] SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> I photograph the models for my record, then toss them. Until treatment >> is complete, they are a part of the dental record. Afterwards, an [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >_YOU_ could scan your models (casts, moulds) into 3D images with your >CERECtotic machine. COOL! Great idea. Yes, that would be very cool! I love the CEREC 3-D renditions .......... Joel >Whyn't y'all do _that_? It'd be a helluva lot more accurate, I'll >wager.... [but then, I'll drink to anything...] >SP > Study models are part of dental records and should be treated the same as > X-rays. A small charge for duplicates would be acceptable. If it is a big > case, chances are a 2nd set was made from the original impressions for a > diagnostic wax up. > I think quattrocchi would be better off asking for a duplicate of the models > to make a decision and/or as paperweights for his desk ;-). Thanks. I see now that I could have differentiated between 1 molds 2 models or castings from the molds 3 wax workups being treatment plan options I was really wondering about taking a copy of 3 home to discuss my options with 'er indoors. Maybe I could see about the cost for a 4 duplicate from the wax workups Thanks for all the replies Brian >> Study models are part of dental records and should be treated the same as >> X-rays. A small charge for duplicates would be acceptable. If it is a big [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >2 models or castings from the molds >3 wax workups being treatment plan options 4. Moulds. 5. Mouldy molds. 6. Molder. >I was really wondering about taking a copy of 3 home to >discuss my options with 'er indoors. Maybe I could [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Brian I think that you are the perfect patient for 'carabelli' ! >> Study models are part of dental records and should be treated the same as >> X-rays. A small charge for duplicates would be acceptable. If it is a big [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Brian -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE | > Study models are part of dental records and should be treated the same as | > X-rays. A small charge for duplicates would be acceptable. If it is a big [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] | | Brian 4 might be easier than you think. If you are having some major work done, duplicate models of the "wax workups" are used in the process of making your temporary crowns/bridges. If that is what you get, keep in mind that the "wax workup" is usually a quite bit bulkier to allow for trimming and polishing of the temporaries. The temps are usually bulkier for strength. The final product will be more refined. FWIW, I've done a lot of diagnostic wax ups for a prosthodontist in the past. If I recognized the name as someone that is famous or in the news, I've gone as far as watching videos to improve on the information I can get from a hard model, which I then use to customize the waxup. What might you be having done? SignatureRoy rem NADA to reply >> 4 duplicate from the wax workups > 4 might be easier than you think. > [...] > What might you be having done? I'm woefully ignorant of the possibilities and cost. I won't know my options til Fri. Might be bridges, might be implants. www.adam.co.nz/xray.jpg www.adam.co.nz/xray_324k.jpg Brian >I'm woefully ignorant of the possibilities and cost. >I won't know my options til Fri. >Might be bridges, might be implants. Get the ones without mold. >SP, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >I think quattrocchi would be better off asking for a duplicate of the models to >make a decision and/or as paperweights for his desk ;-). Agree .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting. the dentist owns the mouth moulds [models]. You paid for the professional service of having them made. > I'm soon (Friday) to be seeing my prosthedontic clinic for a treatment > discussion. Late last year he took two mouth molds and in the intervening period [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Brian |
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