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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / February 2005

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partial upper overdenture attachments

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Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS - 15 Feb 2005 16:27 GMT
    What would you use in this situation?  I was going to go to a FU
denture, but it's my uncle and...I don't want to get into it, but he's a
pain.
    He has one molar, one premolar and a canine on the R side, one
fractured canine on the left (old endo, new crown lengthening, moderate
bone loss).
    I don't want to use any fancy attachments, esp. on the right side.  So
I'm going to combine some kind of overdenture attachment on the L canine
(O ring or ERA or the like) with a couple of clasps on the right.
    What would work in this situation?

Steve

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Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

The Real Paul - 15 Feb 2005 16:42 GMT
I've used ERA attachments in upper canines before. They worked out really
well. As long as you have enough vertical then I say go for it. 'They' say
not to mix clasping with attachments, but 'they' don't live in the real
world, only textbook land. I think it would work out with some adjusting
here and there. I'd definitely try it on my uncle.

> What would you use in this situation?  I was going to go to a FU
> denture, but it's my uncle and...I don't want to get into it, but he's a
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Brooklyn, NY
> 718-258-5001
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS - 15 Feb 2005 17:09 GMT
> I've used ERA attachments in upper canines before. They worked out really
> well. As long as you have enough vertical then I say go for it. 'They' say
> not to mix clasping with attachments, but 'they' don't live in the real
> world, only textbook land. I think it would work out with some adjusting
> here and there. I'd definitely try it on my uncle.

    I'm not sure my uncle lives in the real world either, but there ya go!
    Thanks!

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

W_B - 15 Feb 2005 17:46 GMT
>> I've used ERA attachments in upper canines before. They worked out really
>> well. As long as you have enough vertical then I say go for it. 'They' say
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Steve

You might also consider a 'component' partial.
Cast parts are incorporated into the acrylic.
You could then construct somewhat like an
upper full and gain some retention from the post dam.
Still using the ERA in the cuspid.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS - 15 Feb 2005 18:58 GMT
>>>I've used ERA attachments in upper canines before. They worked out really
>>>well. As long as you have enough vertical then I say go for it. 'They' say
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Take out the G'RBAGE
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com

    Not sure what you mean.  How are the existing teeth treated?

Steve

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Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

W_B - 15 Feb 2005 19:19 GMT
>>>>I've used ERA attachments in upper canines before. They worked out really
>>>>well. As long as you have enough vertical then I say go for it. 'They' say
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
>Steve

They are treated lust like a regular cast frame partial...

You will have to look around for the 'component partial'.

Will look around to see if I can find a link for you.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
W_B - 15 Feb 2005 19:23 GMT
>>>>I've used ERA attachments in upper canines before. They worked out really
>>>>well. As long as you have enough vertical then I say go for it. 'They' say
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
>Steve

Just a quick search turned up this link.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9
452667&dopt=Abstract


--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS - 15 Feb 2005 19:58 GMT
>>>>>I've used ERA attachments in upper canines before. They worked out really
>>>>>well. As long as you have enough vertical then I say go for it. 'They' say
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> Take out the G'RBAGE
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com

    Thanks--I'll take a look around for info.

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Steven Fawks - 15 Feb 2005 19:20 GMT
Just remember that no good deed goes unpunished (at least in cases
like these).

;-)
Fawks

>> I've used ERA attachments in upper canines before. They worked out really
>> well. As long as you have enough vertical then I say go for it. 'They'
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Steve
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS - 15 Feb 2005 19:56 GMT
> Just remember that no good deed goes unpunished (at least in cases
> like these).
>
> ;-)
> Fawks

    So...you know my uncle?

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

W_B - 15 Feb 2005 17:22 GMT
>    What would you use in this situation?  I was going to go to a FU
>denture, but it's my uncle and...I don't want to get into it, but he's a
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Steve

I use the ERA and like it because you can change the retention.

Keep the framework light; open palate with posterior bar;
or very minimal frame and an almost complete acrylic base.

Think that Roy will be of more help than me.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS - 15 Feb 2005 17:34 GMT
> I use the ERA and like it because you can change the retention.
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Take out the G'RBAGE
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com

    Thanks WB!

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Roy Brown - 16 Feb 2005 01:06 GMT
| > What would you use in this situation?  I was going to go to a FU
| >denture, but it's my uncle and...I don't want to get into it, but he's a
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
| Take out the G'RBAGE
| wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com

Geographical nomenclature, the wrath of dentistry.

I think I understand what W_B is talking about with his "component partial".
Imagine a small unilateral cast partial (AKA Nesbit in some places) replacing
only the teeth distal to the right cuspid. Once you picture that, imagine the
food line (scribed dam) area as a finishing line with mesh or loops extending
from it to attach the casting to the rest of the prosthesis which looks more
like a complete acrylic overdenture. (Are we talking about the same thing W_B?)

Advantages are you gain the best of both worlds, precision of the partial,
adaptability of the complete denture. From what you describe, I would not do one
of these on the upper, unless I had an excellent lab since the placement and
contouring of the finishing lines will make or break the case.  I would do
something similar, described below. If on the other hand, you were describing a
similar situation on the lower, I would do a "component partial".

The mere mention of considering a FUD, leads me to believe that the 3 remaining
teeth have a questionable prognosis in the long run. In this situation I would
look at using cast clasps connected together by either a full palate meshwork,
or connected by something that gets buried in the acrylic. (called cast clasps
and connectors locally) The clasps can be full cast clasps or combination of
cast and wrought. Tying the clasps and rests together give you the advantages of
a cast partial. If you lose a tooth, cutting off the metal and adding is
simple - keeping your other components intact. The key advantage in doing this
is the ability to control guide planes in metal. Remember for every guide plane
you have clasping can be reduced by about 25%. 3 remaining teeth gives you a
potential for 6 guide planes.

If you had 1 overdenture attachment, with some guide planes you could get by
with 1 well placed wrought clasp. As for the attachment, I suggest you look at
the "locator" attachment. It is made by Zest Anchors and comes in many flavours;
Root, Implant and Bar and different angles. Like the ERA it comes in different
strengths. Unlike the ERA it can accommodate a 40 degree divergence in the
extreme. Here is a link:
http://www.zestanchors.com/index.asp?file=articles
some online instructions:
http://www.preat.com/locr_inst.htm

and this link compares ERA to Locator:
http://www.zestanchors.com/articles/LOCATOR%20vs%20ERA%20UPDATE.htm
or
http://tinyurl.com/4g5v5

I personally have not used this attachment yet. I have yet to find a case that
is suitable and get one of the dentists that I work with to use them. I have two
coming up that I will be pushing for. Affections for the ERA within the dental
community locally are similar to those I see here on s.m.d. I do know that the
people that have switched to them love them (resolves some issues with the ERA).
The last convention I was at, the Branemark table had the Locator attachment
with all their stuff, even though it was not their own (indicating they believed
in it.).

Hope this is what you are looking for Steven.

Roy
Steven Bornfeld - 16 Feb 2005 03:00 GMT
> | On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:27:24 -0500, Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
> <bornfeldmung@dentaltwins.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 79 lines]
>
> Roy

    Thanks, that is helpful.
    The remaining teeth aren't too good, but the man is 80.  I was thinking
of a full denture because the left canine isn't too good.  I'm just not
hopeful about his adaptability to a full upper denture.

Steve
Roy Brown - 16 Feb 2005 03:47 GMT
| > | On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:27:24 -0500, Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
| > <bornfeldmung@dentaltwins.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
| > | >
| > | >Steve

snip

| Thanks, that is helpful.
| The remaining teeth aren't too good, but the man is 80.  I was thinking
| of a full denture because the left canine isn't too good.  I'm just not
| hopeful about his adaptability to a full upper denture.
|
| Steve

What is opposing Steve? How is the plane of occlusion? 2 overdenture attachments
might present a good compromise and greatly enhance the adaptability. The intro
kit with 4 attachments (zero degree or mixed angulations) is $300 on the Zest
Anchor site.

--
Roy
W_B - 16 Feb 2005 17:38 GMT
>| Thanks, that is helpful.
>| The remaining teeth aren't too good, but the man is 80.  I was thinking
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>--
>Roy

Not a bad idea. Think that SB already has the ERA kit.
Would require another endo though.

If OD/ is a consideration three abutments are even better.
and could possibly use all four.

That's more endo though.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS - 16 Feb 2005 20:57 GMT
> Not a bad idea. Think that SB already has the ERA kit.
> Would require another endo though.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Take out the G'RBAGE
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com

    I have parts of an ERA kit--from maybe 15 years ago.  Hopefully the
stuff is still compatible.
    I'm really looking to do LESS dentistry on this guy, not more.

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

W_B - 16 Feb 2005 23:09 GMT
>> Not a bad idea. Think that SB already has the ERA kit.
>> Would require another endo though.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Steve

Am fairly sure the ERA is little changed.

Three or four endos for me is different than for others.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
W_B - 16 Feb 2005 17:32 GMT
>    Thanks, that is helpful.
>    The remaining teeth aren't too good, but the man is 80.  I was thinking
>of a full denture because the left canine isn't too good.  I'm just not
>hopeful about his adaptability to a full upper denture.
>
>Steve

Maybe a 'transitional' acrylic partial with WW clasping
and some kind of attachment in the left cuspid.
I would probably use a full palate and post dam.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS - 16 Feb 2005 20:54 GMT
>>    Thanks, that is helpful.
>>    The remaining teeth aren't too good, but the man is 80.  I was thinking
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Take out the G'RBAGE
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com

    That's probably what I should do--though he's a tough patient, and
he'll almost certainly have problems with movement of an acrylic base
with ww clasps.

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

W_B - 16 Feb 2005 17:23 GMT
>Once you picture that, imagine the
>food line (scribed dam) area as a finishing line with mesh or loops extending
>from it to attach the casting to the rest of the prosthesis which looks more
>like a complete acrylic overdenture. (Are we talking about the same thing W_B?)

Sounds like it.

BTW knew you were 'da man for this question.

Good answers.
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
 
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