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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / February 2005

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Dental dummy has questions & comments

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rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com - 11 Feb 2005 23:54 GMT
I just turned 48 this week, and believe it or not, I have
only been to the dentist _three_ times in my life; twice
in the fall of 1966 (one molar pulled, and its counterpart
on the other side had a large filling put in 7 days later,
which is still there btw), and once in March of 1975 (one
filling).  My teeth are not gross or ugly at all, as might
be expected, and my gums are not receding and appear to be in good
shape too.  I have always been a brushing fanatic almost.

One thing that has always made me wonder about the wisdom
that says one should go for regular visits is that when I
last visited the dentist (THIRTY years ago next month),
the guy told me that I needed to come back the next week
and get a filling in another tooth.  The only thing I could
see with the tooth was what looked like a little whitish crack
or line on it (is this how decay begins?).  Anyway, now, thirty
years later, that little white line is still there, and has
remained UNchanged (or even gotten smaller) over all these
years.  If I had returned at that time and had him drill and
put a filling in the tooth, I feel now that that would've been
unwise in the long term, considering that drilling and filling
weakens teeth, yes?  BOTH of my teeth that have been filled have
chipped over the years.  None of the others have.

However, it appears that I may have to return to a dentist
for a little visit.  The molar that has the 38+ year-old filling,
or the tooth behind it, is starting to cause mild pain that can
come and go by the minute.  I can't tell which tooth is causing
the problem, but the one behind the filled one has a smallish,
dark cavity on the side that I have been aware of for over 20
years.

One reason I avoid the dental visits (other than the fact that
my teeth have never given me trouble) is that nowadays, they
want to do a whole series of x-rays and perhaps do more than
is actually needed, which is common in other fields as well.
I've paid for dental coverage for years and never used it,
but I don't like the idea of having a lot of unnecessay stuff
done, and I feel that many dentists would try to pressure me
in this way, considering my lack of visits in the past, and
my ignorance of the subject.  Am I right?  My philosophy is
to keep as much of my original teeth as possible, with minimal
alteration of them.  I feel this way about my other body parts
as well.  As I asked before, doesn't dental work weaken teeth?
Back in the old days when I went to dentists, they just did
what needed to be done to solve the problems at hand: cavities
were filled, and too-far-gone teeth were pulled.  But it
doesn't appear to be that way today.

Now, a question for any dentists who may read this:  This may
be a stupid question, but as I've said, I know nothing about
the subject.  As I said, when I was nine years old, I had a molar
pulled; its counterpart on the other side was filled.  But instead
of being one tooth short on the side where the extraction was done, I
still have the same number of teeth on either side of my lower jaw
(seven), which gives me of course 14 total on the lower jaw.
(For some reason, I never had the full set of 32 teeth.)
The surprising thing is that *another* tooth grew very near
to where the molar was extracted.  It does NOT have a counterpart
on the other side.  Is this normal, and do I just look stupid, or
was this unusual?

Enough rambling I guess.  Any good feedback anxiously awaited!

--
Otis
W_B - 12 Feb 2005 01:10 GMT
>I just turned 48 this week, and believe it or not, I have
>only been to the dentist _three_ times in my life; twice
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>be expected, and my gums are not receding and appear to be in good
>shape too.  I have always been a brushing fanatic almost.

Prevention is the best medicine.

>One thing that has always made me wonder about the wisdom
>that says one should go for regular visits is that when I
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>unwise in the long term, considering that drilling and filling
>weakens teeth, yes?  

Modern day dental restorations can actually be stronger
than original equipments. It depends on the restorative
material and the technics.

>BOTH of my teeth that have been filled have
>chipped over the years.  None of the others have.

Both of your teeth ? You only have two ? <kidding>
Chipping indicates parafunction.
ie. clenching, grinding.

>However, it appears that I may have to return to a dentist
>for a little visit.  The molar that has the 38+ year-old filling,
>or the tooth behind it, is starting to cause mild pain that can
>come and go by the minute.

A 38+ yo filling ? good longevity.
If you have pain, get it checked.

>  I can't tell which tooth is causing
>the problem, but the one behind the filled one has a smallish,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>my teeth have never given me trouble) is that nowadays, they
>want to do a whole series of x-rays

You need a full series of x-rays so that you may get an accurate
diagnosis. Most dentists nowdays have intraoral cameras
and should sit down with you and show you your x-rays and
explain everything they see to you.

>and perhaps do more than
>is actually needed, which is common in other fields as well.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>in this way, considering my lack of visits in the past, and
>my ignorance of the subject.  Am I right?

No, pressure should not be put on a patient.
If they give you the hard sell used car spiel walk out.

> My philosophy is
>to keep as much of my original teeth as possible, with minimal
>alteration of them.  I feel this way about my other body parts
>as well.

OEM is almost always better than replacements.
OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer.

>As I asked before, doesn't dental work weaken teeth?

As I answered above, not necessarily.

>Back in the old days when I went to dentists, they just did
>what needed to be done to solve the problems at hand: cavities
>were filled, and too-far-gone teeth were pulled.  But it
>doesn't appear to be that way today.

Ethical dentist still operate with the patients' best interest in
mind.

>Now, a question for any dentists who may read this:  This may
>be a stupid question, but as I've said, I know nothing about
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>(seven), which gives me of course 14 total on the lower jaw.
>(For some reason, I never had the full set of 32 teeth.)

Would need to see a full set of x-rays to answer that.

>The surprising thing is that *another* tooth grew very near
>to where the molar was extracted.  It does NOT have a counterpart
>on the other side.  Is this normal, and do I just look stupid, or
>was this unusual?

No such thing as a stupid question but, with out some pictures
or x-rays, from here it is impossible to answer.

>Enough rambling I guess.  Any good feedback anxiously awaited!

Welcomed to the group.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com - 12 Feb 2005 01:45 GMT
> Both of your teeth ? You only have two ? <kidding>
> Chipping indicates parafunction.
> ie. clenching, grinding.

Nope, not in my case.  Both chips occurred when I was eating
something hard.  I remember I was eating a frozen Snickers bar
in 1986 when the upper one chipped...btw, I'm not overweight!:)
I've never been one to grind my teeth.

> A 38+ yo filling ? good longevity.
> If you have pain, get it checked.

It's still in there and solid as a rock, even though the tooth
is partially chipped.  And my best guess is that the tooth behind
it is the culprit, but it's hard to tell exactly.

> You need a full series of x-rays so that you may get an accurate
> diagnosis. Most dentists nowdays have intraoral cameras
> and should sit down with you and show you your x-rays and
> explain everything they see to you.

But is all of this really necessary in most cases?  It didn't
seem to be in the "old" days, and patients usually did just
fine with the doc using his observational skills and experience.

> Ethical dentist still operate with the patients' best interest in
> mind.

I know they're supposed to operate this way, and I'm sure many do,
but some won't.  I guess I need to ask around.  My wife had a good
deal of dental work done a few years back, and the guy seemed to
be ethical, at least at first.  Maybe he was ethical, but just
scatterbrained, I don't know, but we decided to drop him.

> Welcomed to the group.

Thanks.  I hope to get a little of a handle on a subject before
I walk into the dental office.

--
Otis
W_B - 12 Feb 2005 02:25 GMT
>> Both of your teeth ? You only have two ? <kidding>
>> Chipping indicates parafunction.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>in 1986 when the upper one chipped...btw, I'm not overweight!:)
>I've never been one to grind my teeth.

Sorry, teeth just don't break even on frozen Snickers bars
with out being over stressed either by clenching or grinding.
Micro fracturing is not visible without magnification.

>> A 38+ yo filling ? good longevity.
>> If you have pain, get it checked.
>
>It's still in there and solid as a rock, even though the tooth
>is partially chipped.  And my best guess is that the tooth behind
>it is the culprit, but it's hard to tell exactly.

Another 'chipped' tooth ? Definitely parafunction.
Check out headacheprevention.com.

Without a radiograph (x-ray) I can't tell either.

>> You need a full series of x-rays so that you may get an accurate
>> diagnosis. Most dentists nowdays have intraoral cameras
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>seem to be in the "old" days, and patients usually did just
>fine with the doc using his observational skills and experience.

The standard of care is considerably better in modern times.
Get the full set of x-rays. I recommend once per 5 years,
maybe longer, maybe shorter, depending on the patient.

>> Ethical dentist still operate with the patients' best interest in
>> mind.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>be ethical, at least at first.  Maybe he was ethical, but just
>scatterbrained, I don't know, but we decided to drop him.

Ask friends, colleagues, co-workers, etc...
a satisfied patient is the most likely indicator of
a good practitioner.

>> Welcomed to the group.
>
>Thanks.  I hope to get a little of a handle on a subject before
>I walk into the dental office.

No problem, there are many good practitioners on this NG.
Easier to catch most of us during the week, week-ends are
variable.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com - 12 Feb 2005 14:35 GMT
> Sorry, teeth just don't break even on frozen Snickers bars
> with out being over stressed either by clenching or grinding.

As I stated, the only teeth that have chipped are the two
that have had the fillings.  One is on the lower jaw (the
one with the large 38 year-old filling) and the other
one is just above it on the upper jaw, same side of mouth.
I have apparently always chewed primarily on the right side,
hence the need for the fillings there.

> Another 'chipped' tooth ?

Yes, as I have already stated.  I'll say it once more: the two
teeth that have fillings are the two that have chipped.  They
were weakened by the filling procedure.

>Definitely parafunction.
> Check out headacheprevention.com.

I can definitely tell you that I've never been one to grind
my teeth, awake or asleep.  And believe it or not, I've never
had a headache.

--
Otis
StovePipe - 20 Feb 2005 04:11 GMT
> > Another 'chipped' tooth ?
>
> Yes, as I have already stated.  I'll say it once more: the two
> teeth that have fillings are the two that have chipped.  They
> were weakened by the filling procedure.

>I can definitely tell you that I've never been one to grind
>my teeth, awake or asleep.  And believe it or not, I've never
>had a headache.

See what I mean?

THERE IS NOTHING A DENTIST HERE CAN SAY THAT YOU WILL BELIEVE.

It is the CARIOUS DECAY that weakened the tooth. We do not remove sound
dental tissue.
it is sad
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Dr. Steve - 20 Feb 2005 17:55 GMT
>> Sorry, teeth just don't break even on frozen Snickers bars
>> with out being over stressed either by clenching or grinding.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>my teeth, awake or asleep.  And believe it or not, I've never
>had a headache.

Please never ask to be my patient,
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting.
Joel M. Eichen - 20 Feb 2005 20:43 GMT
>>I can definitely tell you that I've never been one to grind
>>my teeth, awake or asleep.  And believe it or not, I've never
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
>Troy, Michigan, USA

Yeah and the sorority sisters when they were in college, claimed they
never had headaches either. What went wrong?

Joel
Joel M. Eichen - 12 Feb 2005 11:54 GMT
>> Both of your teeth ? You only have two ? <kidding>
>> Chipping indicates parafunction.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>in 1986 when the upper one chipped...btw, I'm not overweight!:)
>I've never been one to grind my teeth.

About both teeth ...

How can they chip with one way up front and the other one way in the
back on the udder side?
rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com - 12 Feb 2005 14:40 GMT
> About both teeth ...
>
> How can they chip with one way up front and the other one way in >the
back on the udder side?

They are both in the rear, on the right side of my mouth.
One is right above the other, i.e. one on upper jaw, the
other on lower jaw.  See my reponse to W_B from today.

--
Otis
Joel M. Eichen - 12 Feb 2005 11:53 GMT
>>filling).  My teeth are not gross or ugly at all, as might
>>be expected, and my gums are not receding and appear to be in good
>>shape too.  I have always been a brushing fanatic almost.
>
>Prevention is the best medicine.

True.

In many studies the areas of the country where the people having the
best dentitions, are the same areas with severe SHORTAGES of dentists!

Joel
Peter Meiers - 12 Feb 2005 20:34 GMT
> In many studies the areas of the country where the people having the
> best dentitions, are the same areas with severe SHORTAGES of dentists!
which means: less preventive extractions?

Peter

Signature

-History of fluorine, fluoride and fluoridation-:
--- http://PMeiers.bei.t-online.de/index.htm ---
----------------------------------------------------

jdrew63929@aol.com - 12 Feb 2005 06:01 GMT
Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry
From: rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com - Find messages by this author
Date: 11 Feb 2005 15:54:02 -0800
Local: Fri, Feb 11 2005 3:54 pm
Subject: Dental dummy has questions & comments

Dummy lying dentists HERE will have dummy lying answers
Joel M. Eichen - 12 Feb 2005 11:54 GMT
>Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry
>From: rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com - Find messages by this author
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Dummy lying dentists HERE will have dummy lying answers

See what I mean about Jan?
Shyster - 16 Feb 2005 04:12 GMT
> I just turned 48 this week, and believe it or not, I have
> only been to the dentist _three_ times in my life; twice
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> be expected, and my gums are not receding and appear to be in good
> shape too.  I have always been a brushing fanatic almost.

That's why they lasted so long. And good genes. But this doesn't mean that
you'll be so lucky in the future. Even if you don't want the dentist to do
anything, it's good to get an idea about what condition your teeth and gums
are in.
BTW, Stalin would never let a dentist touch him either, and he had good
strong teeth albeit stained and discoloured.

> One thing that has always made me wonder about the wisdom
> that says one should go for regular visits is that when I
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
> --
> Otis
Joel M. Eichen - 16 Feb 2005 09:13 GMT
>> I just turned 48 this week, and believe it or not, I have
>> only been to the dentist _three_ times in my life; twice
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>BTW, Stalin would never let a dentist touch him either, and he had good
>strong teeth albeit stained and discoloured.

There is a theory ~ people have
the best teeth in areas of the country
where there is a severe shortage of
dentists ~ how can that be?

Joel

>> One thing that has always made me wonder about the wisdom
>> that says one should go for regular visits is that when I
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
>> --
>> Otis
Dr. Steve - 20 Feb 2005 17:06 GMT
>>> I just turned 48 this week, and believe it or not, I have
>>> only been to the dentist _three_ times in my life; twice
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>>BTW, Stalin would never let a dentist touch him either, and he had good
>>strong teeth albeit stained and discoloured.

At least we now know who his hero is.

>There is a theory ~ people have
>the best teeth in areas of the country
>where there is a severe shortage of
> dentists ~ how can that be?

Based on what criteria? No dentists in the areas means no exams to
verify such a claim.
>Joel
>
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>>> --
>>> Otis

..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting.
Joel M. Eichen - 20 Feb 2005 17:38 GMT
>>>BTW, Stalin would never let a dentist touch him either, and he had good
>>>strong teeth albeit stained and discoloured.
>
>At least we now know who his hero is.

Commies get more points for having brown and discolored teeth!

(It matches the clothes more).

Joel

>>There is a theory ~ people have
>>the best teeth in areas of the country
>>where there is a severe shortage of
>> dentists ~ how can that be?
Peter Meiers - 20 Feb 2005 19:39 GMT

> Commies get more points for having brown and discolored teeth!
>
> (It matches the clothes more).

Isn´t that the color of the opposite wing? Could it be you actually
meant "red"?

Signature

-History of fluorine, fluoride and fluoridation-:
--- http://PMeiers.bei.t-online.de/index.htm ---
----------------------------------------------------

Joel M. Eichen - 20 Feb 2005 20:44 GMT
>> Commies get more points for having brown and discolored teeth!
>>
>> (It matches the clothes more).
>
>Isn´t that the color of the opposite wing? Could it be you actually
>meant "red"?

Commies do not wear red clothes. You are thinking of Santa Claus.
Peter Meiers - 20 Feb 2005 21:19 GMT
> >> Commies get more points for having brown and discolored teeth!
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Commies do not wear red clothes. You are thinking of Santa Claus.

Uh. I knew he is a commie ...

Signature

-History of fluorine, fluoride and fluoridation-:
--- http://PMeiers.bei.t-online.de/index.htm ---
----------------------------------------------------

Joel M. Eichen - 20 Feb 2005 23:03 GMT
>> Commies do not wear red clothes. You are thinking of Santa Claus.
>
>Uh. I knew he is a commie ...

YUP, distributing presents without any regard for billing and
invoicing for same ........
W_B - 21 Feb 2005 16:46 GMT
>Commies do not wear red clothes. You are thinking of Santa Claus.

Santa is a commie ?

aka red diaper doper baby
--

W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
StovePipe - 20 Feb 2005 04:11 GMT
> One reason I avoid the dental visits (other than the fact that
> my teeth have never given me trouble) is that nowadays, they
> want to do a whole series of x-rays and perhaps do more than
> is actually needed, which is common in other fields as well.

Why do they post 'NO DIVING' signs at the local swiming hole near you?
So you don't can your head on a rock under the surface; a rock that YOU
CAN'T SEE.

Why do we take x-rays? To see decay, foreign bodies, abceses, etc...
Things that, on the surface, YOU CAN'T SEE.

However, is this really getting through to you? Will you believe what
the dentist says to you, if it doesn't jive with your pre-conceived
notions about what is going on in your mouth? What  if s/he says that,
even though your gums LOOK alright, there is gum disease hiding under
them. Will you believe it?

I get people in my practice like you all the time: too CHEAP to spend a
dime on their teeth; not for LUXURY elective treatments, but for
NECESSARY medically based treatments. They come in with more $$$ on
their wrists and on their feet than they are prepared to put in their
mouths. And, no x-rays, doc please... they're dangerous. Meanwhile,
they've got skin that's almost BLACK from going to the tanning salon...

It is just possible that in those thirty years, trouble has been
brewing in your mouth and you will naturally expect the dentist to wave
his magic wand and make everything right in one appointment lasting 40
minutes, hey?

Don't be surprised if the dentist asks you to sign an informed
consentment form, especially if you refuse x-rays to see the whole
picture.

If you go to a dentist, and you don't like the verdict, GO TO ANOTHER
ONE, and get another opinion, instead of doing the welfare line solution
(just do nothing at all). This will cost you some $$$, so go to the
automatic teller before hand.

Would you be here if this NG cost you something to get advice? I think
not.

Just my opinion, but I am definitely sticking to it.
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Dr. Steve - 20 Feb 2005 17:10 GMT
>> One reason I avoid the dental visits (other than the fact that
>> my teeth have never given me trouble) is that nowadays, they
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>Just my opinion, but I am definitely sticking to it.
>SP

the OP is obviously not a happy person.
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting.
StovePipe - 20 Feb 2005 18:01 GMT
> the OP is obviously not a happy person.
> ..
> Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
> Troy, Michigan, USA

Neither is the SP, at this point. I'd better shut up now...
SP
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Not a real Addy, yet

 
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