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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / February 2005L&ML
ATTENTION ! ! ! >For the sake of any new readers to this newsgroup. Jan is a retired >day care owner/operator, (according to her) who makes a lot of noise >about amalgam toxicity. Incorrect. I post the scientific proof of mercury amalgam toxcity. http://tinyurl.com/46pwb >She is not a dentist, has no training in dentistry, >and does not really understand scientific methods. That's a lie. Dr Steve has NOT one single study proving amalgams to be safe, while I have lots of proof and studies that show they are NOT safe. http://tinyurl.com/7xq58 >In addition, she flat >out refuses to engage in any discussion about this issue even when the >specific point of discussion does not contradict her own point of view. Another lie. http://tinyurl.com/3rly6 >She >cannot communicate much beyond pasting the words of other people to >responses, even when the quotes do not apply to what is being said. See above. >She, >also, does not give any credit to the person from which she takes these >quotations. Her behavior is very similar to a software program designed > to post specific remarks to key words. Anyone can note, Dr Steve is sour grapes because he refuses to discuss and answer my questions. He is just one of many here who can't. http://tinyurl.com/5ufrd http://tinyurl.com/4kucc >Please be cautious if you choose >to follow any advice presented by her. I have helped others and will continue. http://tinyurl.com/3uezd >Recognize that her views do NOT reflect those of modern dentistry. They are NOT my views, they are written by researchers, Chemists, toxicologists, DDS's and MD's. By oedern dentistry Dr Steve means the lying beliefs of *organized dentistry and medicine* who remain in denial. Their concern is EGO and afraid of being sued for the lies down through the ages. . Her views mirror those of dishonest people who survive by preying on the >innocent. Dr Steve is DISHONEST. I have a message, and it starts with *IF* *IF* you have an unanswered health problem,,,,,,,,CHECK THE TEETH! NOT by a mainstream dentist, but an Alt. dentist who KNOWS the dangers of metalin the mouth and root canals, and follows correct protocol. I did, it saved my life .Mercury is Poisonous.There is NO safe form of Mercury in living tissue.The mercury vapor from dental amalgam alone is a bigger source than all the other sources together. U151 identifies mercury as a toxic waste.Mercury is also recovered from discarded products and wastes such aschlor-alkali wastes, dental amalgams, fluorescent light tubes, electronicdevices, and others. The mercury is vaporized in a retort and collected bycondensation. Condensed mercury is then distilled to remove impurities.* The Environmental Protection Agency is working to reduce the amount ofmercury in the environment http://www.ehs.ucsf.edu/Manuals/CSM/Csm_Chapter9.htm 17. DENTAL AMALGAMDental amalgams are mixtures of mercury with silver tin alloy. Cal-EPAregulates them as ***chemical waste.*** Submit Chemical Waste Removal Form for its disposal. >If you watch and read carefully, you will see her accuse anyone >who does not agree with all her views (uneducated as they may be) of being a >liar. A total repeated lie. The lies are from the posters own words, and has nothing whatsoever to do with disagreeing. Lies are rampant here. When they are told and I ask for proof, Dr Steve, among others have NO proof. >When that does not get enough attention, she will resort to calling >people "heifer", "Jew-boy", Atheist, queer, etc. Her behavior is certainly >not civil nor compassionate. I am not here for attention, as far as the above, yes if needed I do stand up to ridiculous posters. It should also be noted, Dr Steve says W_B is a nice guy. While he speaks of Slat Lake City Landfill. States it's a damn shame I didn't die. and Well said, mf, well said. I have been called many names. In fact from Sr Steve himself. Dr Steve <nos...@home.net> wrote: > >> I stay out of the Crohn's discussion with her since there obviously > >> would be little sense trying. But, always notice she is nice to all of > >> us. You cannot say that about the three headed hydra. >If you read exactly what her claims are in regard to amalgam toxicity, you >will find that her claims do not make scientific sense. > She claims to have >been healed of neurological defects during the time that her bodily mercury >levels would have been at their highest. No that what Dr Steve claims, I claimed. He has been asked to show proof of this claim, he has none, but still repeats this lie. NOWHERE did I ever say I was cured of anything. <snip more lies> >Even those individuals who would like to see amalgam banned from use, find >her posting methods and refusal to discuss any topics despicable. Proof of that lie is above. >Please recognize that there are far more people sensitive to Penicillin, >latex, peanuts, and even to bananas than there are people sensitive to >dental amalgam and the metals it contains. None of those materials have >been banned, nor will they be banned in the future. Totally irrelevant. Amalgams is the subject. We already have partial bans, for very good reason. The truth is mercury is being eliminated in ALL forms, dentists are the biggest polluters and care not about the enviroment. The reason for this post, is Dr Steve got caught in his own trap. After stating his many lies it is HE who refuses to discuss and can't answer my questons. Jan > ATTENTION ! ! ! >>>>> > >She is not a dentist, has no training in dentistry, > >and does not really understand scientific methods. > > That's a lie. So you ARE a dentist? >Subject: Re: L&ML >From: "Rich" nomore@spam.no [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >So you ARE a dentist? >does not really understand scientific methods. There's the lie, in fact I post it. Jan >>Subject: Re: L&ML >>From: "Rich" nomore@spam.no [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >There's the lie, in fact I post it. Jan Drew has NEVER posted her understanding of the scientific method. She mindlessly posts links to sites that she does not understand and refuses to discuss anything other than to call anyone a liar or brainwashed who disagrees with her. The truth is that Jan Drew is NOT a dentist, has NO training in dentistry and is clueless about the scientific method. Jan Drew endorses *anything* that agrees with her point of view/agenda and demonizes anything that does not. That alone proves that Jan is clueless about the scientific method. Jan Drew is a sick individual who obsessively posts links which she believes proves that amalgams cause mercury poisoning. She does this even though she obviously realizes that she never had mercury poisoning as proved by her deliberately changing her history to make it look like she really did have mercury poisoning. After Jan Drew said that she went from near death to line dancing a week later, she was told that her improvement was not consistent with mercury poisoning as her mercury level would have been even higher when she said that she felt much better. > http://tinyurl.com/674oy > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >>>elimination of 8 mercury amalgams has made a difference. Nothing psychosomatic >>>about it. Then Jan claimed that the reason that she knew it was the mercury was because she did not *begin* to regain her health until *after* her mercury level dropped. That is a lie and Jan Drew knows it. >How do I know it was the metal? Because my mercury level was monitored by my >>MD, it was only AFTER the metal was removed that it started dropping and I >>started to regain my health. > >http://tinyurl.com/6n3ax Jan Drew even admitted that removal of amalgams results in increase level of mercury in the body. >Removing amalgam is a destabilizing process that >forces metals in ionic and molecular form through the dentine into the pulp, >and thence into the body; Agreed. >that's a hypothesis, and I intend to get someone >more competent than I am to look at it. Are you not aware that people know about the increase of mercury during removal? There's never been any arguement about the fact that removing amalgams puts more mercury in the body. Jan If there is no argument that removing amalgams puts more mercury in the body how was it that on June 16,1999 Jan was dying of mercury poisoning, on June 18,1999 after having her eighth amalgam removed (over two day period) she felt better than she had in two years and a week later (June 16, 1999) her foot pain went away and she went out line dancing????? Jan Drew deals with the exposure of her lie by accusing the messenger (me) of being the liar. Sad that. Aloha, Rich PS: Cue Jan to not deal with ANY of her contradictory statements and to make a personal attack against me by repeating her lie that I am stalking her. Sad that. The title says it all. Jan Drew knows nothing about toxicology. Joel . ...................... > The title says it all. > > Jan Drew knows nothing about toxicology. > > Joel And,,,,,,,,,,,,, sadly,,,,,,,,,,,,, no desire to learn. >. >...................... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >And,,,,,,,,,,,,, sadly,,,,,,,,,,,,, no desire to learn. Cue Jan to now make a gratuitous attack against me, most likely by starting a new thread. Just watch. Jan cannot rebut my exposure of her lies so she tries to divert attention by attacking and discrediting the messenger. Aloha, Rich ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------- Best defense to logic is ignorance Of course she will. I am sure she has done the same to me by now. I may never know though.  Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > >>. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Best defense to logic is ignorance Rumor has it that AOL will be dropping usenet today Feb. 9th. Time will tell. >Of course she will. I am sure she has done the same to me by now. I may >never know though. >Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. >Troy, Michigan, USA >>>. >>>...................... [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> lies so she tries to divert attention by attacking and discrediting >> the messenger. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >Rumor has it that AOL will be dropping usenet today Feb. 9th. > >Time will tell. I heard that they are tossing a coin ........ considering dropping usenet or dropping Jan! Joel >>Of course she will. I am sure she has done the same to me by now. I may >>never know though. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >>> lies so she tries to divert attention by attacking and discrediting >>> the messenger. Subject: Jan Drew Lied About Having Mercury Poisoning From Amalgams Kelly lied, Connie lied ec., etc., Richard H Jacobson LIES repeatedly: Proof: >Are you sure my name is Richard Jacobson?? >>>>Is it or isn't it? >>Negative. Does this mean that I don't have to agree to Jan's request to cease and desist?? Of course her request presumes that I have been stalking and harassing her. >I am grateful for one thing; that Richard Jacobson is not my real name. Unfortunately the Richard Jacobson that DOES live in Hawaii may not be too happy with my assuming his name for purposes of the internet especially given the recent events. He happens to live on a different island from me. I do plan to contact him to let him know that someone may try to harass him since he is listed in the phone book. =============================== Hiking The Kalalau Trail Richard Jacobson (richj@cris.com) Sat, 16 Mar 1996 00:27:34 -0500 (EST) >Hawaii's premier backpacking trail, the Kalalau Trail on the island of Kauai still remains closed past Hanakoa due to the reconstruction of the trail near "crawler's ridge". Estimated date of completion is Mid May. Until then, camping will only be permitted in Hanakapiai and Hanakoa Valleys. I for one am anxious to have Kalalau open again. It has to be one of the finest trails in the world. Aloha, Rich ------------------------ ------------------------ Richard H. Jacobson Always remember to put Horace before Descarte (Rich doesn't lie does he Kirk???) =============================== From: Richard Jacobson (richj@cris.com) Subject: Re: Skeptics on MHANewsgroups: misc.health.alternativeView complete thread (Date: 1996/04/15On 15 Apr 1996 02:06:31 -0400, talena90@aol.com (Talena90) wrote:>In article <3162e207.238819996@news.concentric.net >, richj@cris.com>(Richard Jacobson) writes: >>Gee, Rich... it kinda bothers me like someone who stated that they usedPycnogenol AND i.v. chelation treatment to cure their breast cancer, in response to someone who said, i.e. "Pycnogenol has no usefulness." Then another person screaming all over the place... "***She's lying, she won't tell me the story of her diagnosis**** .. she just wants to sell pycnogenol and that is what she says cured it all... ***She's a liar, she's a liar,she's a liar.*** She read research, ***but doesn't mail it to me*** so she didn't do the research either. ***She's a liar she's a liar.*** She makes up stuff about pycnogenol curing cancer she didn't have." RICHARD!!!!! SHE ALSO USED CHELATION TREATMENT. DID YOU READ THAT PART? >Calm down Talena or YOUR blood pressure is going to go through ther oof. Yes I heard Kelly say that it was BOTH chelation AND pycnogenolthat cured her breast cancer. I ALSO heard her say that she was NEVERspecifically told she had breast cancer. I ALSO heard her say that she NEVER knew she had a breast biopsy. I ALSO heard her say that the pycnogenol was for "prevention" and not the "cure" of her cancer. Ih eard Kelly say a lot of things. And IMO she, and I am being VERYkind, is not being **completely honest** about it. Or did not YOU readTHOSE things??? Seems like you have selective reading. >>YOUR PROPOGATIONS AND ENDLESS MISQUOTES AND ASSUMPTIONS BOTHER ME!I I> am sorry. Don't mean to misquote people. But if you say I did then it MUST be true. >IT ALSO BOTHERS ME THAT KELLY SAID THAT SHE OPTED FOR ALTERNATIVE TREATMENT, BUT IN NO WAY WOULD ADVISE SOMEONE ELSE TO IGNORE TRADITIONAL TREATMENT, OR THEIR DOCTOR... BUT WE WOULDN'T WANT TO CONFUSE RICHARD WITH THEFACTS... ***HE HAS HIS OWN SET OF PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS HE LIKES TO PRETEND ARE FACTS.*** >You are quite correct Talena. Kelly DID say that. But she also is promoting a tape (Dead Doctor's Don't Lie) that tells people not to trust their doctor. She also made many posts discrediting doctors in one way or another. In fact she did not have a good thing to say about most of the doctors she has had experience with. But she would NEVER tell anyone to ignore conventional doctors :-) But she sure can talk out of both sides of her mouth real well. >>****RICHARD, ALL YOU HAVE IS OPINIONS... YOU HAVE NO DATA, NO FACTS, NOSTUDIES, NO INFORMATION TO DISPROVE ANYTHING.**** >You are right. I have my opinion. I DO also have access to manystudies demonstrating efficacies for different treatment modalities. >>YOU CLAIM YOU ARE HERE TO PREVENT OTHERS FROM DYING FROM ALTERNATIVEMEDICAL TREATMENT, LIKE YOUR *FRIEND*, and still you refuse to tell us what did him/her in. Is your friend imaginary? If you don't produce name and social security number, we don't believe you. >I don't blame you Talena. Actually it is irrelevant to you who my friend is, whether she existed or not. Its importance is to me and my motivation to inform others about the risks of taking seemingly "low risk" therapies. So whether you believe me or not is insignifigant to me. But if it makes you feel good to keep bringing it up then by all means do so. ***It does more to indicate what kind of person you are than anything.** ***It is truet hat I accused Kelly of lying about having breast cancer and being cured by chelation and pycnogenol.***** This is a quite remarkable claim and her response were vague, evasive, and contradictory. If it is difficult for you to believe that someone died as a result of rejecting conventional care since it seems like such ***an outrageous claim*** (I mean NO ONE dies from doing this do they)then I don't know what to tell you. I mean... you don't believe Kelly had breast cancer, or I am married, No I believe you are married. I also believe that your husband has hypertension. And I also think I have some insigh tinto why he has hypertension. High stress can cause high blood pressure. Somehow I have a feeling that your husband has stress in his life. I don't know from where because ****it is clear that it is not coming from you since you have demonstrated suchempathy, compassion and caring for your fellow human being. His stress must be from elsewhere.*** Aloha,Rich... you are REALLY OUT THERE, Richard.... someone please lasso himand try to get him back to reality..... ***It is frustrating isn't it Talena to not have others believe inYOUR reality*** ***Just a suggestion. Let your husband have HIS reality and don't impose YOURS on him. That may lead to stress. But Iimagine you NEVER do that :-)*** Aloha,Rich There are some people who just are totally unable to communicate.I think that the least that they could do is to shut the hell up.Tom Lehrer ============================================================= From: J. Michael Seawright (seawrigh@vitro.com) Subject: Re: My own view on ADD (yes I have it) Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit, misc.education, misc.health.alternative, alt.parents-teens, alt.parenting.solutions Date: 1996/04/04 richj@cris.com (Richard Jacobson) wrote:>On Tue, 02 Apr 1996 19:13:26 GMT, seawrigh@vitro.com (J. Michael>Seawright) wrote: >>richj@cris.com (Richard Jacobson) wrote:> >>>>On 31 Mar 1996 09:07:01 GMT, "Dorothy C. Keffer">>>< lebval58@mail.erols.com> wrote: >>>>There is help oput there that is all natural, non-toxic and works. It is called pycnogenol. E mail an address for tape by parents who use it on their kids and love it. ______(In the interest of conserving bandwidth and readers time, some, very likely most, of the above message has been snipped.) Your message does not belong in this newsgroup.For this reason, you may have been reported to the Blacklist of Internet Advertisers. > What are we talking about here? I am a newbee and I don't understandthis "blacklist" thing. This Dorothy just seems to offer some help. I see no reason to "blacklist" someone for offering help. This type of thing happened back in the 1930's. It was called Hitler and the Nazis. >>>Having had a number of my family members die in concentration camps during the Hitler regime I find your analogy quiteoffensive. While I will certainly protect your right to make these kinds of statements I will NOT sit idly by without responding to it. If you are a newbee then perhaps it would behoove you torefer to the usenet newusers group to understand the protocol for making posts here. And as far as this person trying to "help" others perhaps we could agree to disagree.This person is trying to help "herself" by attempting>to sell a product in a group where advertising is prohibited.This is a discussion group for alternative health care issues and not for selling things. >Aloha, >Rich >Richard Jacobson >Better to be unsure about somethingthan to be certain and be wrong >>Always remember to put Horace before Descarte From: Steve C. (gelfud@cpcnet.com) Subject: Re: Fat content of 2% milk Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative, sci.med, sci.med.immunology, sci.med.pharmacy, misc.kids, misc.kids.health, alt.activism.children, misc.kids.pregnancy Date: 1996/03/22 Were talking like a truck of milk right? >richj@cris.com (Richard Jacobson) wrote:>On 12 Mar 1996 14:25:15 -0500, amcspi@aol.com (AMCSPI) wrote: >>A glass of whole milk has as much fat as five strips of bacon. >This is true. But of course it would have to be a REALLY> BIG glass. >Aloha, >Rich> >Richard Jacobson >Better to be unsure about something>than to be certain and be wrong >>Always remember to put Horace before Descarte From: Marc Gray (datacat@globalone.net) Subject: Re: Question about FIBS invite and join Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon Date: 1996/03/20 In article 314676b8.17009338@news.cris.co >, richj@cris.com (RichardJacobson) wrote: * On 13 Mar 1996 02:57:19 GMT, mwest@sprynet.com (Mike West) wrote: * >Just recently I signed on to my first FIBS session. I was invited to a match. I * typed who is followed by the name of the other player to see something about them. When I immediately typed join (name) nothing happened. So my question is when one is invited must one reply immediately? How long does an invitation last?* Generally, what has happened is that the the inviter has not waited for your response and has joined another game. I customarily wait no morthan about 15 seconds for a response to an invite.*Also possible, is an impatient newbie attempting to gang-invite binviting numerous players in rapid sequence. This is an error as eacinvite deletes the previous invitation, leaving a trail of "did notinvite you" to all those who attempt to join that inviter.FlashGammon Richard Jacobson Better to be unsure about something* than to be certain and be wrong Always remember to put Horace before Descarte-- From: Jerry (gmcclurg@ids2.idsonline.com) Subject: Re: My own view on ADD (yes I have it) Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit, misc.education, misc.health.alternative, alt.parents-teens, alt.parenting.solutions Date: 1996/04/07 Richard Jacobson wrote:> On Sat, 06 Apr 1996 12:32:04 GMT, todd_horton@compuserve.com (Todd> Horton) wrote >>>richj@cris.com (Richard Jacobson) wrote:> >>>and I'll go back to "lurking". >>> Mike I would appreciate it if you could take better care: in your posts. This post suggests that I made the: above comment. I did NOT. Just wanted to make sure: that ANOTHER rumor did not start up about me. I realize: that it is signed Mike but that won't stop someone: from spreading a rumor that I am going by two different: names.: Aloha,: Rich Don't worry richard, No one will ever mistake an actual contribution to the newsgroup for sonmething you wrote. We could tell it wasn't yours since it asked a question and another shared an experience. If it had been snide, snotty, and put down THEN we miht have thought it was yours. ======================== p_iannone@pop.com (Paul Iannone) wrote: >: >For Patient A, not so lucky. Antibiotic therapy, having no Boosting effect,> >fails, and the patient is left with the most abysmal form of folk: medicine on the planet: conventional medicine's brand of folk: herbalism (have some chicken >soup and take two or three OTC drugs: but read the label first, and eventually >you'll be sick enough to: see us for a real disease). >: >: >This simple case displays some of the differences between healing: and medicine, >\and between isolating therapies and holistic therapies. >: >Ciao!>: >: That is a nice anecdotal story which has little meaning to me. I could: tell you that a person with burning comes to someone and they: give him mineral water and he leaves feeling much energy and the: pain goes away. What does that prove??? Not much to me. >Well, perhaps that someone needs to develop Rich Jacobson Mineral Water Therapy.But that is hardly the point. >You are quite right that Mineral Water Therapy is beside the point. Iam not sure what point you were making putting ****my name**** in front of a bogus therapy. I guess you missed MY point which was tha tanyone could claim anything about healing peoples illnesses withno validity to their claims such as a claim for mineral water healingan infection. The problem is that those who claim that theremethods are *more* effective ALSO state that not only is any kind of proof not necessary but are not at all interested in subjectin the treatments to any kind of objective study to demonstate their efficacy. Instead they are relying on observations which may not be valid and may be based upon superstitions. How does one separate reality from superstition? I guess each of us decides for ourself. One persons reality is anothers superstition.The one way I know to separate the two is through a well designed placebo controlled double blind study. Perhaps thereis another valid way but I have not seen one to date.For the nth time: healing is concerned with and directly involved with correcting health imbalances before they rise to illness, and correcting imbalances that affect those aspects of health that CANNOT be adequatelyquantified by the most stringent of conventional methodsI agree with you completely that preventative health care (correctingproblems before they arise) is a VERY important part of staying wel land preventing disease and that conventional medicine does a quite poor job in this area. This is a major problem in which people really need to take responsibility for maintaining their good health through good diet, exercise and avoiding unhealthy things.The mixture of two or more pharmaceuticals produces a state that has NEVER been studied or validated. As a system, conventional therapy validates>ISOLATES, and then freely mixes and matches them, unconcerned that this resulting therapy is not validated. So validation counts for fairly little, outside of those isolated entities that can be so tested. You are quite right that using multiple medications may be very dangerous and that frequenty people suffer bad consequences from harmful interactions between medications. There are book written about medication interactions and the importance of not using medications together if they are not compatible. Medication interactions ARE studied and good clinicians DO NOTmix them freely. Perhaps you could share with us how specifically you would like to validate the mixture of two or more pharmaceuticalsin terms of safety. Which leaves us staring at the traditional basis for validation: longstanding, careful observation and stringent empiricism. Hard to beat two thousand years of very sophisticated formula development. They weren't exactly apes throwing stones at the moon. Yes Paul I realize that you have been really impressed by this long standing tradition and base much of your belief on the number ofyears that it has been around and the validation based upon all these clinicians observing billions of patients over thousands of years. My point is that this does not constitute validity in my mind. In your mind it does, in my mind it does not .Perhaps wecould agree to disagree. Aloha,Rich --------------- Richard Jacobson Better to be uncertain about something than to be sure and be wrong about it Subject: Jan Drew Lied About Having Mercury Poisoning From Amalgams Kelly lied, Connie lied ec., etc., Richard H Jacobson LIES repeatedly: Proof: >Are you sure my name is Richard Jacobson?? >>>>Is it or isn't it? >>Negative. Does this mean that I don't have to agree to Jan's request to cease and desist?? Of course her request presumes that I have been stalking and harassing her. >I am grateful for one thing; that Richard Jacobson is not my real name. Unfortunately the Richard Jacobson that DOES live in Hawaii may not be too happy with my assuming his name for purposes of the internet especially given the recent events. He happens to live on a different island from me. I do plan to contact him to let him know that someone may try to harass him since he is listed in the phone book. =============================== Hiking The Kalalau Trail Richard Jacobson (richj@cris.com) Sat, 16 Mar 1996 00:27:34 -0500 (EST) >Hawaii's premier backpacking trail, the Kalalau Trail on the island of Kauai still remains closed past Hanakoa due to the reconstruction of the trail near "crawler's ridge". Estimated date of completion is Mid May. Until then, camping will only be permitted in Hanakapiai and Hanakoa Valleys. I for one am anxious to have Kalalau open again. It has to be one of the finest trails in the world. Aloha, Rich ------------------------ ------------------------ Richard H. Jacobson Always remember to put Horace before Descarte (Rich doesn't lie does he Kirk???) =============================== From: Richard Jacobson (richj@cris.com) Subject: Re: Skeptics on MHANewsgroups: misc.health.alternativeView complete thread (Date: 1996/04/15On 15 Apr 1996 02:06:31 -0400, talena90@aol.com (Talena90) wrote:>In article <3162e207.238819996@news.concentric.net >, richj@cris.com>(Richard Jacobson) writes: >>Gee, Rich... it kinda bothers me like someone who stated that they usedPycnogenol AND i.v. chelation treatment to cure their breast cancer, in response to someone who said, i.e. "Pycnogenol has no usefulness." Then another person screaming all over the place... "***She's lying, she won't tell me the story of her diagnosis**** .. she just wants to sell pycnogenol and that is what she says cured it all... ***She's a liar, she's a liar,she's a liar.*** She read research, ***but doesn't mail it to me*** so she didn't do the research either. ***She's a liar she's a liar.*** She makes up stuff about pycnogenol curing cancer she didn't have." RICHARD!!!!! SHE ALSO USED CHELATION TREATMENT. DID YOU READ THAT PART? >Calm down Talena or YOUR blood pressure is going to go through ther oof. Yes I heard Kelly say that it was BOTH chelation AND pycnogenolthat cured her breast cancer. I ALSO heard her say that she was NEVERspecifically told she had breast cancer. I ALSO heard her say that she NEVER knew she had a breast biopsy. I ALSO heard her say that the pycnogenol was for "prevention" and not the "cure" of her cancer. Ih eard Kelly say a lot of things. And IMO she, and I am being VERYkind, is not being **completely honest** about it. Or did not YOU readTHOSE things??? Seems like you have selective reading. >>YOUR PROPOGATIONS AND ENDLESS MISQUOTES AND ASSUMPTIONS BOTHER ME!I I> am sorry. Don't mean to misquote people. But if you say I did then it MUST be true. >IT ALSO BOTHERS ME THAT KELLY SAID THAT SHE OPTED FOR ALTERNATIVE TREATMENT, BUT IN NO WAY WOULD ADVISE SOMEONE ELSE TO IGNORE TRADITIONAL TREATMENT, OR THEIR DOCTOR... BUT WE WOULDN'T WANT TO CONFUSE RICHARD WITH THEFACTS... ***HE HAS HIS OWN SET OF PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS HE LIKES TO PRETEND ARE FACTS.*** >You are quite correct Talena. Kelly DID say that. But she also is promoting a tape (Dead Doctor's Don't Lie) that tells people not to trust their doctor. She also made many posts discrediting doctors in one way or another. In fact she did not have a good thing to say about most of the doctors she has had experience with. But she would NEVER tell anyone to ignore conventional doctors :-) But she sure can talk out of both sides of her mouth real well. >>****RICHARD, ALL YOU HAVE IS OPINIONS... YOU HAVE NO DATA, NO FACTS, NOSTUDIES, NO INFORMATION TO DISPROVE ANYTHING.**** >You are right. I have my opinion. I DO also have access to manystudies demonstrating efficacies for different treatment modalities. >>YOU CLAIM YOU ARE HERE TO PREVENT OTHERS FROM DYING FROM ALTERNATIVEMEDICAL TREATMENT, LIKE YOUR *FRIEND*, and still you refuse to tell us what did him/her in. Is your friend imaginary? If you don't produce name and social security number, we don't believe you. >I don't blame you Talena. Actually it is irrelevant to you who my friend is, whether she existed or not. Its importance is to me and my motivation to inform others about the risks of taking seemingly "low risk" therapies. So whether you believe me or not is insignifigant to me. But if it makes you feel good to keep bringing it up then by all means do so. ***It does more to indicate what kind of person you are than anything.** ***It is truet hat I accused Kelly of lying about having breast cancer and being cured by chelation and pycnogenol.***** This is a quite remarkable claim and her response were vague, evasive, and contradictory. If it is difficult for you to believe that someone died as a result of rejecting conventional care since it seems like such ***an outrageous claim*** (I mean NO ONE dies from doing this do they)then I don't know what to tell you. I mean... you don't believe Kelly had breast cancer, or I am married, No I believe you are married. I also believe that your husband has hypertension. And I also think I have some insigh tinto why he has hypertension. High stress can cause high blood pressure. Somehow I have a feeling that your husband has stress in his life. I don't know from where because ****it is clear that it is not coming from you since you have demonstrated suchempathy, compassion and caring for your fellow human being. His stress must be from elsewhere.*** Aloha,Rich... you are REALLY OUT THERE, Richard.... someone please lasso himand try to get him back to reality..... ***It is frustrating isn't it Talena to not have others believe inYOUR reality*** ***Just a suggestion. Let your husband have HIS reality and don't impose YOURS on him. That may lead to stress. But Iimagine you NEVER do that :-)*** Aloha,Rich There are some people who just are totally unable to communicate.I think that the least that they could do is to shut the hell up.Tom Lehrer ============================================================= From: J. Michael Seawright (seawrigh@vitro.com) Subject: Re: My own view on ADD (yes I have it) Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit, misc.education, misc.health.alternative, alt.parents-teens, alt.parenting.solutions Date: 1996/04/04 richj@cris.com (Richard Jacobson) wrote:>On Tue, 02 Apr 1996 19:13:26 GMT, seawrigh@vitro.com (J. Michael>Seawright) wrote: >>richj@cris.com (Richard Jacobson) wrote:> >>>>On 31 Mar 1996 09:07:01 GMT, "Dorothy C. Keffer">>>< lebval58@mail.erols.com> wrote: >>>>There is help oput there that is all natural, non-toxic and works. It is called pycnogenol. E mail an address for tape by parents who use it on their kids and love it. ______(In the interest of conserving bandwidth and readers time, some, very likely most, of the above message has been snipped.) Your message does not belong in this newsgroup.For this reason, you may have been reported to the Blacklist of Internet Advertisers. > What are we talking about here? I am a newbee and I don't understandthis "blacklist" thing. This Dorothy just seems to offer some help. I see no reason to "blacklist" someone for offering help. This type of thing happened back in the 1930's. It was called Hitler and the Nazis. >>>Having had a number of my family members die in concentration camps during the Hitler regime I find your analogy quiteoffensive. While I will certainly protect your right to make these kinds of statements I will NOT sit idly by without responding to it. If you are a newbee then perhaps it would behoove you torefer to the usenet newusers group to understand the protocol for making posts here. And as far as this person trying to "help" others perhaps we could agree to disagree.This person is trying to help "herself" by attempting>to sell a product in a group where advertising is prohibited.This is a discussion group for alternative health care issues and not for selling things. >Aloha, >Rich >Richard Jacobson >Better to be unsure about somethingthan to be certain and be wrong >>Always remember to put Horace before Descarte From: Steve C. (gelfud@cpcnet.com) Subject: Re: Fat content of 2% milk Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative, sci.med, sci.med.immunology, sci.med.pharmacy, misc.kids, misc.kids.health, alt.activism.children, misc.kids.pregnancy Date: 1996/03/22 Were talking like a truck of milk right? >richj@cris.com (Richard Jacobson) wrote:>On 12 Mar 1996 14:25:15 -0500, amcspi@aol.com (AMCSPI) wrote: >>A glass of whole milk has as much fat as five strips of bacon. >This is true. But of course it would have to be a REALLY> BIG glass. >Aloha, >Rich> >Richard Jacobson >Better to be unsure about something>than to be certain and be wrong >>Always remember to put Horace before Descarte From: Marc Gray (datacat@globalone.net) Subject: Re: Question about FIBS invite and join Newsgroups: rec.games.backgammon Date: 1996/03/20 In article 314676b8.17009338@news.cris.co >, richj@cris.com (RichardJacobson) wrote: * On 13 Mar 1996 02:57:19 GMT, mwest@sprynet.com (Mike West) wrote: * >Just recently I signed on to my first FIBS session. I was invited to a match. I * typed who is followed by the name of the other player to see something about them. When I immediately typed join (name) nothing happened. So my question is when one is invited must one reply immediately? How long does an invitation last?* Generally, what has happened is that the the inviter has not waited for your response and has joined another game. I customarily wait no morthan about 15 seconds for a response to an invite.*Also possible, is an impatient newbie attempting to gang-invite binviting numerous players in rapid sequence. This is an error as eacinvite deletes the previous invitation, leaving a trail of "did notinvite you" to all those who attempt to join that inviter.FlashGammon Richard Jacobson Better to be unsure about something* than to be certain and be wrong Always remember to put Horace before Descarte-- From: Jerry (gmcclurg@ids2.idsonline.com) Subject: Re: My own view on ADD (yes I have it) Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit, misc.education, misc.health.alternative, alt.parents-teens, alt.parenting.solutions Date: 1996/04/07 Richard Jacobson wrote:> On Sat, 06 Apr 1996 12:32:04 GMT, todd_horton@compuserve.com (Todd> Horton) wrote >>>richj@cris.com (Richard Jacobson) wrote:> >>>and I'll go back to "lurking". >>> Mike I would appreciate it if you could take better care: in your posts. This post suggests that I made the: above comment. I did NOT. Just wanted to make sure: that ANOTHER rumor did not start up about me. I realize: that it is signed Mike but that won't stop someone: from spreading a rumor that I am going by two different: names.: Aloha,: Rich Don't worry richard, No one will ever mistake an actual contribution to the newsgroup for sonmething you wrote. We could tell it wasn't yours since it asked a question and another shared an experience. If it had been snide, snotty, and put down THEN we miht have thought it was yours. ======================== p_iannone@pop.com (Paul Iannone) wrote: >: >For Patient A, not so lucky. Antibiotic therapy, having no Boosting effect,> >fails, and the patient is left with the most abysmal form of folk: medicine on the planet: conventional medicine's brand of folk: herbalism (have some chicken >soup and take two or three OTC drugs: but read the label first, and eventually >you'll be sick enough to: see us for a real disease). >: >: >This simple case displays some of the differences between healing: and medicine, >\and between isolating therapies and holistic therapies. >: >Ciao!>: >: That is a nice anecdotal story which has little meaning to me. I could: tell you that a person with burning comes to someone and they: give him mineral water and he leaves feeling much energy and the: pain goes away. What does that prove??? Not much to me. >Well, perhaps that someone needs to develop Rich Jacobson Mineral Water Therapy.But that is hardly the point. >You are quite right that Mineral Water Therapy is beside the point. Iam not sure what point you were making putting ****my name**** in front of a bogus therapy. I guess you missed MY point which was tha tanyone could claim anything about healing peoples illnesses withno validity to their claims such as a claim for mineral water healingan infection. The problem is that those who claim that theremethods are *more* effective ALSO state that not only is any kind of proof not necessary but are not at all interested in subjectin the treatments to any kind of objective study to demonstate their efficacy. Instead they are relying on observations which may not be valid and may be based upon superstitions. How does one separate reality from superstition? I guess each of us decides for ourself. One persons reality is anothers superstition.The one way I know to separate the two is through a well designed placebo controlled double blind study. Perhaps thereis another valid way but I have not seen one to date.For the nth time: healing is concerned with and directly involved with correcting health imbalances before they rise to illness, and correcting imbalances that affect those aspects of health that CANNOT be adequatelyquantified by the most stringent of conventional methodsI agree with you completely that preventative health care (correctingproblems before they arise) is a VERY important part of staying wel land preventing disease and that conventional medicine does a quite poor job in this area. This is a major problem in which people really need to take responsibility for maintaining their good health through good diet, exercise and avoiding unhealthy things.The mixture of two or more pharmaceuticals produces a state that has NEVER been studied or validated. As a system, conventional therapy validates>ISOLATES, and then freely mixes and matches them, unconcerned that this resulting therapy is not validated. So validation counts for fairly little, outside of those isolated entities that can be so tested. You are quite right that using multiple medications may be very dangerous and that frequenty people suffer bad consequences from harmful interactions between medications. There are book written about medication interactions and the importance of not using medications together if they are not compatible. Medication interactions ARE studied and good clinicians DO NOTmix them freely. Perhaps you could share with us how specifically you would like to validate the mixture of two or more pharmaceuticalsin terms of safety. Which leaves us staring at the traditional basis for validation: longstanding, careful observation and stringent empiricism. Hard to beat two thousand years of very sophisticated formula development. They weren't exactly apes throwing stones at the moon. Yes Paul I realize that you have been really impressed by this long standing tradition and base much of your belief on the number ofyears that it has been around and the validation based upon all these clinicians observing billions of patients over thousands of years. My point is that this does not constitute validity in my mind. In your mind it does, in my mind it does not .Perhaps wecould agree to disagree. Aloha,Rich --------------- Richard Jacobson Better to be uncertain about something than to be sure and be wrong about it >>. >>...................... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >>And,,,,,,,,,,,,, sadly,,,,,,,,,,,,, no desire to learn. I cannot imagine someone listening to the patient dentists around here and learning nothing over a period of five years! Joel >Cue Jan to now make a gratuitous attack against me, most likely by >starting a new thread. Just watch. Jan cannot rebut my exposure of her [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Best defense to logic is ignorance >. >...................... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >And,,,,,,,,,,,,, sadly,,,,,,,,,,,,, no desire to learn. Doesn't want to be confused with the facts. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>Subject: Re: L&ML >>From: "Rich" nomore@spam.no [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Jan Speaking philosophically, Jan, who do you think describes "scientific methods" best - Hume, Bacon, Popper, Kuhn, Lakatos or Feyerabend? If you want a formal exercise, try discussing the relevance of Kuhn's paradigm shift theory to changes in the practice of dentistry in the early-to-mid nineteenth century. SignaturePeter Bowditch The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com Peter Bowditch Feb 9, 2:23 pm hide options Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry From: Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> - Find messages by this author Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 22:23:44 GMT Local: Wed, Feb 9 2005 2:23 pm Subject: Re: L&ML Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - jdrew63...@aol.com (Jan) wrote: >>Subject: Re: L&ML >>From: "Rich" nom...@spam.no >>Date: 2/8/2005 10:25 AM Pacific Standard Time >>Message-id: <iu7Od.8373$Tt.5601@fed1read05> >>> ATTENTION ! ! ! >>> >She is not a dentist, has no training in dentistry, >>> >and does not really understand scientific methods. >>> That's a lie. >>So you ARE a dentist? >>does not really understand scientific methods. >There's the lie, in fact I post it. >Jan Speaking philosophically, Jan You speaking is stalking, sorry Peter your lies are well recorded and proven. <snip diversion> Peter KNOWS Rich is a liar, Peter KNOWS he is a liar, Peter KNOWS most of the dentists here are LIARS. Peter's websites are LIES. Peter has nothing but sicko opinion. <snip Peter's spam> >- Hide quoted text - >- Show quoted text - Cool Jan, Next time, "hide nonsense." Joel |
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