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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / February 2005

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Social Security -should Bush reform the system?

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Lewis Lang - 06 Feb 2005 10:56 GMT
GW Bush says that he wants to switch from the current Social Security
system to an individual retirement account (IRA?) system. He swears
that people over 50 will not be affected. What about the people under
50? Will they get screwed?

--

Lewis Lang
jsn - 06 Feb 2005 14:12 GMT
> GW Bush says that he wants to switch from the current Social Security
> system to an individual retirement account (IRA?) system. He swears
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Lewis Lang

2/6/05
Minneapolis Star-Tribune
Editorial: Young workers/The real victims of Bush's plan

There are so many deceptions to discuss in President Bush's plan for
dismantling Social Security, and many of them require complex
explanations to show just how deceptive they are. For now, let's take
on a couple. Please pay attention, young workers, because you get taken
to the cleaners by his plan.

The structure of Bush's private accounts isn't new; it was offered as
"Plan 2" by the 2004 President's Commission to Strengthen Social
Security, so it has been pretty well studied.

In addition to the private accounts, the Bush plan envisions future
benefit cuts for everyone. The line being peddled by the White House is
that private accounts would more than offset the cuts, leaving younger
people better off. That is simply not the case.

Using figures and economic assumptions from the Congressional Budget
Office, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a highly regarded
think tank in Washington, did the calculations. Here's what they found
for first-year benefits for a worker now 25, of median income, who
retires at age 65:

- If nothing is done to Social Security, some time between 2042 and
2052 (opinions differ) there would not be enough revenue flowing into
the program from payroll taxes and its trust fund to cover the benefits
flowing out. If benefits then were cut just enough to make up the
difference, our hypothetical worker's annual benefits at retirement
would decline $800, from $20,500 to $19,700.

- If the Bush plan is enacted, our worker puts the maximum allowable
amount into a private account and the economy performs as the CBO
expects, our worker would get only $13,097. Who wants to sign up?

Bush also says you own your private account and that you can pass it on
to your heirs. Neither is true. In effect, the government loans you
part of your Social Security tax to invest in a private account. But
through a mechanism called "benefit offsets" that loan must be repaid
at retirement, with interest (starting at 3 percent but adjusted for
inflation).

What does that mean? Let's say you put $1,000 in your private account
annually for 40 years, and you get a pretty-good 4 percent annual
earnings on your investment. The value of your account would grow to
$99,800. But the government would deduct $78,700 from your Social
Security benefits, leaving you only $21,100, about 20 percent of what
your account had accrued. If you earn only 3 percent on your
investments, you don't come out a dime ahead from the private account,
but you still suffer cuts in your guaranteed benefits.

In addition, most of the money in your private account could be passed
to your heirs only if you die before you retire. The government would
convert most of the value of your account into an annuity and give it
to your heirs. If you live to retirement, the annuity goes to you, and
when you die, whether one day or 20 years after retirement, the
remaining value of the annuity reverts to Uncle Sam.

Younger workers should not be bamboozled. Something must be done to
ensure Social Security pays them the benefits they deserve, but the
system is in no danger of "bankruptcy." Bush's plan would make the
existing problem worse rather than better, and younger people would
bear the resulting financial pain.
MC60614 - 07 Feb 2005 02:47 GMT
It's all so stupid. There Aint no money because Bush is spending it all plus
and now he want's to gable with the peoples money. Remember he NEVER knew what
it felt like to be without anything he wanted...MC
Joel M. Eichen - 07 Feb 2005 13:45 GMT
>It's all so stupid. There Aint no money because Bush is spending it all plus
>and now he want's to gable with the peoples money. Remember he NEVER knew what
>it felt like to be without anything he wanted...MC

I am against gabling .......... I prefer the Mansard ones myself.
Vaughn Simon - 07 Feb 2005 12:55 GMT
> > GW Bush says that he wants to switch from the current Social Security
> > system to an individual retirement account (IRA?) system. He swears
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> There are so many deceptions to discuss in President Bush's plan for
> dismantling Social Security,

    And the deceptions start with the language the President is using to
sell his plan.  Alternately, he says the fund is either 'going bust" or
"going bankrupt", when actually neither is the case.  Then he offers a
"plan", but if you read between the lines you find that the "plan" actually
makes things worse.

    Now I know what Dorothy must have felt like when she was trying to
figure out the land of Oz.

Vaughn
All Things Mopar - 07 Feb 2005 14:39 GMT
Vaughn Simon commented courteously ...

[snip]
> ... Alternately, he says the fund is either 'going bust"
> or "going bankrupt", when actually neither is the case.
>  Then he offers a "plan", but if you read between the
> lines you find that the "plan" actually makes things
> worse.

First, the Social Security Trust Fund can't actually "go
bust", since it is constantly being fed by ever increasing
tax revenue, and the Feds, when threatened by draconian
cuts, will act hastily to prop up the system sometime in
the future, whichever party is in power when it happens.

However, independent studies, not just the Federal
government's ludicrous projections (the SS Administration
isn't subject to party politics), strongly suggest that by
around 2017 at the earliest, and likely by 2030-2035, the
number of people working and paying into the trust fund
compared to the number of people receiving benefits, will
drop to the point that today's levels of benefits will not
be sustainable, much less continue to minimally keep up
with inflation.

The idea of both Democratic and Replican schemes to fix
this (as announced by JFK and W during the campaign and
delineated in their web site long-winded platform
documents), is to tweak various aspects of the formula,
including taxation percentage increases, retirement age
with full benefits, inflation, differences in life
expectancy between men and women, and some other things.
The Donkeys and Elephants have pretty divergent views on
how to repair Social Security, but they both acknowledge
that something must be done. But, both agree that the flat
tax, shared by employers which makes the US less competive
in the world marketplace, is highly regressive.

And, the longer they wait, the more drastic the fix will
be when it finally comes.

As to deception in the plan, since W did, in fact win the
election, I'd like to wait until he rolls out the actual
plan before making up my mind if he's an idiot or
demagogue. He's empaneled a Blue Ribbon Committee to study
this, let's let them do their work.

Please keep in mind that the "political 3rd rail" aspect
of messing with the grey lobby's voting strenth, makes it
highly likely that even the Republicans in the House and
Senate will tend to be a highly moderating factor to
anything radical or egregious that W might try to ram
through. He's got only grudging approval for limited
privitation, for example, and plenty of critics in his own
party. Hence the road trip to try to drum up support for
his plan (which has only been exposed in the broadest of
strokes).

And, just whose ox is being gored will ultimately
determine if the W plan is better or worse. For example,
people older than 55, like myself, probably won't see any
differences at all, since W is unlikely to cut benefits
(he could up my retirement age but hasn't said anything
about changing the age 62 partial-benefit start that I
intend to use).

Younger people, on the other hand, may see higher taxes
and/or see their retirement age stretch out, plus they
will have to suffer with the clear uncertainty and risks
that any plan relying on the stock and bond market for its
long-term return-on-investment.

Also, please remember that even if you are a full-
contributor (i.e., you will get maximum allowable
benefits), you will still be at the poverty level unless
your company has a retirement plan and you're one of the
fortunate ones who have a private financial portfolio and
a 401K plan to augment your company's plan and Social
Security.

Signature

ATM, aka Jerry

MC60614 - 08 Feb 2005 08:48 GMT
Yea, But OZ turned out to be a good thing...MC
 
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