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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / August 2005curozone
The ozone machine works. after 40 seconds per site and 1 month later caries which gave the explorer a stick becomes rock solid 8/10 times. The dentin can be bonded to without problems and this was tested. Although the company claims the ozone penetrates 4mm into dentin, realistically it is only 2mm. It also is affective against apthous ulcers and herpies. The pain associated with these lesions goes away after 2-3 days. Recommended cost is similar to a composite filling. I can't go into how I know this because of legal concerns. The chemistry behind this has to do with oxidation inside the dentinal tubules and killing of strep mutans by creating an alkaline environment inside the tubules. The exact mechanism has not been documented and is poorly understood at this time. If you are treating a tooth you want to place a very crappy leaky temporary filling so that reminiralization can occur. The machine is being used in CANADA by a handful of dentists who can afford to spend the big bucks. George Freedman in Toronto being one of them. He is also a big name but then again he will buy any new toy just for marketing It looks like the cost of the machine in the US will be $28k US due to the delays by the FDA. I was told that in CANADA the cost of the machine can be negociated to $24K CANADIAN. I guess they had to put up with less crap. The machine is actually made in California but is sold for export only. Despite all of this I am not going to spend that kind of money for a $50-$350 ozone generator(made in China) inside this unit. The good news about this ozone thing is that it is great for replenishing the ozone layer and having that fresh smell in your office. Although I've seen it eat through latex gloves since the gas is very corrosive and therefore precautions need to be made. Does anyone know when FDA clearance is expected? And - is it marketed as curozone or healozone in Canada? > The ozone machine works. > after 40 seconds per site and 1 month later caries which gave the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I can't go into how I know this because of legal concerns. That goes a long way to making me feel confident in the preceding remarks. >> I can't go into how I know this because of legal concerns. > >That goes a long way to making me feel confident in the preceding remarks. Shareholder ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com they are talking about 2006 for clearance. and the machine is marketed as Healozone. If you go to the Scican website and select Canada you will see the machine if you select USA you will not. I do not have shares in Kavo or Scican or Curozone. > they are talking about 2006 for clearance. > and the machine is marketed as Healozone. Thanks for the info. What did you use in conjunction with the ozone unit (in terms of remineralizing agents etc.), and what convinces you that the effect was due to ozone rather than adjunct therapies? I can't seem to find any clear-cut evidence, so it would be interesting to hear from someone with no financial interests. only. > The good news about this ozone thing is that it is great for > replenishing the ozone layer and having that fresh smell in your > office. Although I've seen it eat through latex gloves since the gas is > very corrosive and therefore precautions need to be made. I want to see the look on the patient's faces when they are told that the gas about to be used on them, will eat right through the dentist's gloves. Even amalgam won't do that -- ;-) - dentaldoc > only. > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the gas about to be used on them, will eat right through the dentist's > gloves. Same can be said about the bur, scalpel, chloroform(with certain gloves). It's how you use it not what it can do. > Even amalgam won't do that -- ;-) > > - dentaldoc > It also is affective against apthous ulcers and herpies. The pain > associated with these lesions goes away after 2-3 days. > Recommended cost is similar to a composite filling. > > I can't go into how I know this because of legal concerns. So... El Bondini <RB> PaPa laid that 'hush-hush' line on y'all TOO, hey? How come there is no INDEPENDENT research done on this 300$ ozone generator-vacuum cleaner? After fighting with DrS and W_B on this, I've decided that I should have known better: read the published litterature instead of taking one presenter's word for it, unless your really rich, or you can RENT the thing for awhile, and if it doesn't work out, they come and get it. I grant you, <RB> gave a good lecture up in T.O. in Oct 2004, and convinced me to buy the Danville MicroEtcher, and try ClearFil SE Bond, and some other stuff, but the HealOzone is one of his vested interests. I got burned when buying the Biolase Millennium 2nd hand, and I sure as hell won't get burned again.... If you REALLY want to know if this thing works, ask Krycztof Pollanski (sorry, KP, I know I murdered your name). It has been available in Poland for quite a while, and he said, IIRC, he doesn't believe it really is useful enough for general practice. He only administers it to those who specifically ask. So... who wants to try throwing together a Dental Ozone generator? I got an old Hoover Type K vacuum we could use to clean the stuff up.... .... SP  SignatureNot a real Addy, yet I'm not buying this over priced machine. I am also not buying the biolase. There is a very good case posed at DT showing photos of what can easily happen to anyone. I do not belive there is vested interest in this machine by those presenters mentioned. They make full disclosures about the other stuff they sell. And the stuff they do recommend works for me. > I'm not buying this over priced machine. I am also not buying the > biolase. Well, if you change your mind, make sure it's a NEW one and get at least FIVE years' worth of service in writing. That'll fix their (Steve Jobs) a.ses for them... > There is a very good case posed at DT showing photos of what can easily > happen to anyone. Rememdy: NEVER turn off your water. Period. > I do not belive there is vested interest in this machine by those > presenters mentioned. Al, he personally knows the inventor (some guy just north of Toronto, who sold the patent to the Irish professor dude who published the only studies to date). <RB> has been implicated in the development from the get-go; he even SAID so... I interpret that to mean he is a major share holder in the manufacturing company.... In the Toronto meeting, he spent well-neigh 90 minutes on the HealOzone. I find it curious that he brandishes his other well-researched products (with good reason) and then he turns around and pushes this thing, with so little research behind it. What he _should_ be doing, IMO, is giving U of T and the London schools some units for research purposes, and let them do independent studies, with microscopy, etc. You could try phoning some of your old colleagues in the Toronto Dental Society and ask them to tell you honestly if it really does do something useful. Ditto on the IDF. Some of those guys must have some info. Remember also that Krzysztof Polanowski has had it in Poland for a couple of years now, and he does not believe that it is worth the investment. > They make full disclosures about the other stuff they sell. > And the stuff they do recommend works for me. I agree 100 percent, except for this particular O3 thing. As I said: I bought a few of his composites and stuff, and the Parkell rings, and the microetcher, and ClearFil, etc. No complaints with any of it. There are now three HealOzones in the Quebec City area, I think, and when I hear some results reported, I'll sing out here. Cheers SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet claims he paid $24K Can from BC(west coast). I'm also a little surprised that he did not rave about it earlier. He gave a several names as far as studies. I do not believe he would lie about the dentin getting mineralized after one month. This is something that can be easilly checked and is the highlight of this expensive toy. There is no way KaVo and Scican would want to sell it with the Diagnodent if it did not work. > claims he paid $24K Can from BC(west coast). > I'm also a little surprised that he did not rave about it earlier. > He gave a several names as far as studies. > I do not believe he would lie about the dentin getting mineralized > after one month. This is something that can be easilly checked and is > the highlight of this expensive toy. >There is no way KaVo and Scican > would want to sell it with the Diagnodent if it did not work. Why not? They've been doing that in Europe for a couple of years now. ... sincerely hope it DOES work. If so, there'll be competition and THEN I'll look at prices and decide... 'specially for those deciduous teeth... Thanks SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet > > claims he paid $24K Can from BC(west coast). > > I'm also a little surprised that he did not rave about it earlier. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > ... sincerely hope it DOES work. If so, there'll be competition and THEN Why not see what Joel says and reverse it. That should be a pretty accurate evaluation. SP You are in Toronto?? where exactly I used to live there. > SP > You are in Toronto?? where exactly I used to live there. Non.... Kebec City, a little north east of Montreal. Had to take the plane up to T.O. to get <RB's> lecture. Stayed with Roy Brown and Carol Ann... almost got eaten by Molly; who is a very VICIOUS Rottweiller with fangs the size of steak knives, and she KNOWS how to use them...:-(. I..... JUST DON'T LIKE when a lecturer puts one of the dentists in the audience on the spot, 'How's the HealOzone working in you're practice, Martin?', and after a short pause, the guy says 'Oh yes... I'm VERY satisfied with it....' and then <RB> says, 'See that ladies and gentlemen? If you don't get it now, you're gonna be left behind...', or something to that effect..... How can a researcher be so... 'flippant' about the machine like that, unless he has a very good reason to see you buy one...? Lest we forget.... Yes, he is a research dentist... BUT he makes a fortune off the stuff he sells Parkell and his own company.... He is STILL in business to make money; not to 'merely educate us'. Hope y'all are not too tired of hearing this story. That said, I will definitely see him again next year. Cheers SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >claims he paid $24K Can from BC(west coast). >I'm also a little surprised that he did not rave about it earlier. >He gave a several names as far as studies. I suggest you check out the list of names. >I do not believe he would lie about the dentin getting mineralized >after one month. This is something that can be easilly checked and is >the highlight of this expensive toy. There is no way KaVo and Scican >would want to sell it with the Diagnodent if it did not work. .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting. > The ozone machine works. > > I can't go into how I know this because of legal concerns. So... El Bondo <RB> Da Da told that to y'all TOO, Hey? > George Freedman in Toronto being one of > them. He is also a big name but then again he will buy any new toy just > for marketing 'Kin say that again... Shoulda seen 'im at the T.O. dental club meeting with the Big El Bondo..... > It looks like the cost of the machine in the US will be $28k US due to > the delays by the FDA. > I was told that in CANADA the cost of the machine can be negociated to > $24K CANADIAN. I guess they had to put up with less crap. Of course.... Health & Welfart Canada don't know their a.ses from a hole in the wheat-fields. Krycztof, does this work? It's in your country for a while now, and you have one... > The good news about this ozone thing is that it is great for > replenishing the ozone layer and having that fresh smell in your > office. Non.... the machine won't activate unless you have an octopus-succion like grip on the tooth or area; if it can't create a semi-vacuum to siphon off the ozone, it won't turn on. So, no oxidants in the air with the HealOzone. SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet Hi In my country the marketing supporting Healzone was very agressive and strong They(kavo) wanted to charged 18000-20000 Euro for it!! They gave for couple clinic this machine for testing I am pretty sure They didnt sell any of this machine in this country. The reason is -- it is only additional method !! doesnt worth this price . regards >> The ozone machine works. >> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > SP > Hi > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > regards Thanks Krzysztof, I knew you'd know about it. And again, Sorry about mis-spelling your name, mon ami! ;-) SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet > mon ami! ;-) You mean: Sorry about mis-spelling your name, "mój przyjacielu" ;) Sorry, couldn't resist. =) Ah, dear sweet Poland ... couldn't help chuckling when I read this ... > > mon ami! ;-) > > You mean: Sorry about mis-spelling your name, "mój przyjacielu" ;) Umm... Yeah... [I think...] > Sorry, couldn't resist. =) > > Ah, dear sweet Poland ... couldn't help chuckling when I read this ... NaNu, NaNu SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet Krzysztof You say you own the machine? How long does it take to eat through a latex glove ie if you wrap one side of the glove over the handpiece tip??? Aparently nitrile gloves will not deteriorate possibly vinyl as well but latex gloves, latex rubber dam will break down. Also what are your thoughts about using the gas as an antimicrobial in periodontal pockets, endo, and ozonating water for rinsing? Also does it do anything to decalcified enamel or do you still need to remove it?? Thanks. Alex Polanowski wrote: > Hi > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > regards > U¿ytkownik "StovePipe" <StovesNewAddy@sympatico.DOTnet> napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci > news:1grf8jy.1kxa83jr7fsg0N%StovesNewAddy@sympatico.DOTnet... > > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > > > SP I am looking for a Healozone -dentist in the S.F. East Bay area, bu cannot find one through the internet. Can anyone help me find on please kind regards ao >I am looking for a Healozone -dentist in the S.F. East Bay area, but >cannot find one through the internet. Can anyone help me find one [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >aov HealOzone is bogus. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > I am looking for a Healozone -dentist in the S.F. East Bay area, but > cannot find one through the internet. Can anyone help me find one [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > aov You won't find one yet in the USA since healozone has not yet cleared FDA in the USA. The closest place is Vancouver British Columbia. There is a website where you can find dentists who own this toy. http://www.scican.ca/ I'm currently researching the role of using ozone in dentistry and how effective it really is. > > I am looking for a Healozone -dentist in the S.F. East Bay area, but > > cannot find one through the internet. Can anyone help me find one [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I'm currently researching the role of using ozone in dentistry and how > effective it really is. I thought it was supposed to be approved in March of this year... SP SignatureFinally: take out the TRASHH It hasn't yet. I do not know the details. > > > I am looking for a Healozone -dentist in the S.F. East Bay area, but > > > cannot find one through the internet. Can anyone help me find one [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I thought it was supposed to be approved in March of this year... > SP I hope good common sense prevails over political pressures in keeping this device off the market until proven useful. I saved the list of references used by Caridex. There was 32 references cited. Many were generic references which did not specifically apply to the device in question. The majority of the remaining references were done "in-house", or by the same researchers. When was the last time you saw a real life Caridex machine? > It hasn't yet. > I do not know the details. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> > FDA in the USA. >> > The closest place is Vancouver British Columbia. > I hope good common sense prevails over political pressures in keeping this > device off the market until proven useful. Maybe that is why the current O3 machine still hasn't gotten its FDA clearance. Long term proof is perhaps not there. Won't <RayBertolotti> be disappointed.... I would still like to see an O3 based instrument sterilizer, though. Maybe that is where O3 will find its best use. <RB> said he was working on that as well. It would be a safe way to sterilize the Laser handpiece, and it would destroy prions. SP SignatureFinally: take out the TRASHH Wow If you want to spend money for it here You are .Its additional method not basic treatment method. Now in Europe its more ozon maschines for cheaper price :) >I am looking for a Healozone -dentist in the S.F. East Bay area, but > cannot find one through the internet. Can anyone help me find one [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > aov I did not buy the curozone machine. > I did not buy the curozone machine. We have it sind Sept. 03. It cost too much then but is being promoted now and much cheaper. But we are very unhappy with that machine. We have same severe caries seen after one year after treatment. Now the healozone is possible for root canal desinfection. But our machine is too old to reconfigure and they wanted 3000Euro extra for changing the machine that costed us 5000bucks more then it would today. I am very unsatisfied how KaVo is dealing with its existing customers. So I myself don't us eit anymore. My Boss does because it was so expensive. We just use it to sterilize deep leasion before hurting the pulpa. And this seems to work. There is now a machione called ozonytron from mymed ist just costs 3000Euro and has no security options (which makes the handling of KaVo machine very uncomfortable) We bought the maching with tax for almost 17000Euro. And the small one is just 3k. So I do not recomend buying the Healozone. Hope this helps. JK SignatureDr. Jochen Kulow |email: jochen.kulowNOSPAM Zahnarzt/Dentist | (at)dentalmail.de |remove NOSPAM |PGP: http://wwwkeys.de.pgp.net |HP: http://www.dr-kulow.de --------------------PGP-Fingerprint------------------- DAA3 468E 10FB 463D AE5C A135 6D6B 9250 7746 6FC7 ------------------------------------------------------ Interesting.... a patient that developed a tramatic ulcer on the lateral of her tongue due to a bridge provisional that came loose which she did not recement until a day later. She was really complaining about the discomfort from the traumatic ulcer and wanted something done. It was decided to zap this thing with some O3 gas after reading the curozone claims. Patient was told that it probably would not do anything. However as soon after a burst of O3 for about 30 seconds she felt immediate relief. It's an interesting finding makes you wonder if the O3 cauterized the tissue or killed the bacteria or both which caused immediate relief. So I guess there really is no need to use an expensive lazer or other chemicals to treat these lesions. I do not know about the other claims about the Curozone machine but this one seems to be true. One thing is for sure, you do not have to buy such an expensive machine to accomplish this. |
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