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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / February 2005

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Government extorting money from dentists.

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Alexander Vasserman DDS - 17 Jan 2005 23:18 GMT
The City of Los Angeles has resorted to extortion.

In August some woman from the City of Los Angeles Department of Public
Works Showed up at my office while I was out on personal business.
She handed an application for an Industrial Waste Permit which involved
a registration fee and a video on proper handling of amalgam waste
dually created by the ADA/CDA. This woman did not examine this office
and was ademant about convincing my staff that we are in violation of
the city ordinance just because they met with The ADA/CDA and it was
determined that all dentists are.
I am in a medical building where we have centralized air and suction
system.
Appearently this fee is supposed to allow you to dispose of
gluteraldehyde, ketones, alcohols, and elemental amalgam particles plus
other similar materials into the public sewage system by providing you
with a permit to do so. GO FIGURE THE LOGIC?????
It also is supposed to supervise the collection of fixer developer and
amalgam and precious metal scrap and lead foils from x-ray film but
nobody ever shows up to check this.
At this point I am not ever sure that this foil is actually lead
probably aluminum since the film is so sensitive now a days but only
KODAK knows for sure and that's another discussion and doesn't apply to
my case since i have digital x-rays.
NOw I do not place any Amalgam nor have I for many years, I have
digital x-rays which I invested in earlier this year. I also do not
remove amalgam I'm mostly a veneer practice. And the rare occasion that
I run into a silver filling I have an independent suction system
separate from the city and we have the waste picked up when enough of
it accumulated. Also we do not dump gluteraldehyde into the drain it is
used for wiping down equiptment only. The ultrasonic cleaner we use is
biodegradable enzymatic and is not on the city's forbidden list.
Extacted teeth are soacked on bleach and given to their respected
owners enamel, amalgam and all. And they can either store these teeth
in their mouths as recommended by the FDA or in class jars under
mineral oil.
So where you may ask this is going??? Last week I recieve an
invoice/violation notice from the city with a fine for $350 for being
in violation of illegally discharging condemened mercury into the city
sewage system. this invoice contains further threats of this being
punishable by a misdemeanor jail time and an additional $1000.00 fine.
They can test for these acts by taking a sample or photograph. What if
my patient had too much sushi and rinsed their mouth in my cuspidor? or
what if there is something in the lines from the previous dentists who
practiced in my office before I bought it??
And the piss of the whole thing is I am not guilty of any of this stuff
this woman just walks by picks up a business card with DDS or DMD
behind it and all of a sudden I am accused of being guilty.
I am begining to suffer anxiety attacks and mental anguish as a result
of these threats. Where is the ADA/CDA on this harassment?

This amalgam thing is like a nightmare you can't escape it, you try not
not put it in and yet it still haunts you. Since I am not contributing
to it's placement I feel it is unethical for me to pay for the actions
of others. Dentists that refused to place it had their licences revoked
in the past now they are being penalized for what everybody else is
doing with these HMO games. The dental boards still have the amalgam as
past of their licensure exam. What the hell is this system coming to,
makes you just want to hang up the  handpiece.
carabelli - 18 Jan 2005 00:00 GMT
> The City of Los Angeles has resorted to extortion.
>
> In August some woman from the City of Los Angeles Department of Public
> Works Showed up at my office while I was out on personal business.
> She handed an application for an Industrial Waste Permit ..........

Well if this were happening to me I would be more than a little PO'd.

I would rewrite a draft of your post, send it to "Letters to the Editor" for
every LA newspaper.  Then I would send a copy (certified mail) to the mayor,
every city council member and the head of Public Works, along with a letter
stating that they better check up on liability coverage because you are
going to sue their sorry butts if this is not resolved immediately.

I suppose (sigh) it would be wise to give your attorney a heads up before
you do it, but that would take all the fun out of it.
carabelli
Steven Fawks - 18 Jan 2005 14:20 GMT
Local 'extortion' so far, has been limited to having an 'anti suck
back' valve installed at the office and paying an annual fee to have
it inspected.

The stupidity here is that my dental units are not even hooked up to
city water.

Like Alex, I don't use amalgam in my practice (2005 marks 20 years
since my last trituration), but I do cut a lot of it out of teeth
in the normal course of treatment.  I could understand a separater
being a good idea.

If Alex is an ADA member, he should contact them also.

JMO,
Fawks

>>The City of Los Angeles has resorted to extortion.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> you do it, but that would take all the fun out of it.
> carabelli
Joel M. Eichen - 18 Jan 2005 00:27 GMT
Unbelievable. Thanks for sharing with us.

Joel

>The City of Los Angeles has resorted to extortion.
>
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
>past of their licensure exam. What the hell is this system coming to,
>makes you just want to hang up the  handpiece.
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 18 Jan 2005 00:52 GMT
So you think I should do a press release?
carabelli - 18 Jan 2005 02:46 GMT
> So you think I should do a press release?

I think a letter to the editor would suffice, but that is your call.  The
point is to be certain the powers that be have their bell rung at the same
time.

carabelli
Roy Brown - 18 Jan 2005 15:53 GMT
| > So you think I should do a press release?
|
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
|
| carabelli

Did the inspector leave their card back in August? You might want to check with
the office of your local councillor first. See what they can do and verify that
this is not a scam.  If it's not a scam and your councillor can do nothing, then
it is letter time. What about the other people in the building? If it is a
centralized system which is part of your rent or condo fees, then only the
property management should be paying the fee. Got a local dental association
that might want to help out with everyone in your area?
Signature

Roy
rem NADA to reply

Joel M. Eichen - 18 Jan 2005 16:35 GMT
>| > So you think I should do a press release?
>|
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>this is not a scam.  If it's not a scam and your councillor can do nothing, then
>it is letter time.

Or make sure that the councillor is not in charge of the entire scam
......

It is a great idea for Philadelphia though. We have almost every other
scam known to mankind already going on here. We have federal trials
going on right now!

Joel

> What about the other people in the building? If it is a
>centralized system which is part of your rent or condo fees, then only the
>property management should be paying the fee. Got a local dental association
>that might want to help out with everyone in your area?
Joel M. Eichen - 18 Jan 2005 17:02 GMT
>>| > So you think I should do a press release?
>>|
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>>property management should be paying the fee. Got a local dental association
>>that might want to help out with everyone in your area?

Here is one for people who are bored.

Its a Sheriff's Sale of worthless properties ..........

Posted on Tue, Jan. 18, 2005


Jill Porter | Buyer beware, too late

Woman thought she bid on a house. Instead she paid a $1,700 down
payment for a crumbling water tower.

DENISE Berry is standing in an auditorium filled with other
dream-seekers. Her heart pounds as she bids again and again and then
realizes: everyone who was competing against her has sat down.

Tears sting her eyes. She's done it.

Years of drug addiction, prison and homelessness can be put behind her
now.

With her daughter's help, she's bought a house at sheriff's sale.

"I was crying, I was saying, 'Thank you, Jesus, I got me a home,' "
Berry recalled of that moment last June 24. "I had to get out of the
seat and run to the bathroom, because I was crying."

Berry paid the $1,700 down payment with money her daughter gave her.
And the two of them drove to Overbrook to see the house again and
marvel at their good fortune.

It was then that Berry learned the agonizing truth: She hadn't bought
a house at all.

She'd bought a crumbling stone water tower behind a house that once
belonged to a steam-heat company.

And the new life she envisioned for herself was still an elusive
dream.

"I can't understand why they didn't let people know," said Berry, who
I've identified by a pseudonym because she's embarrassed about her
past - and by this latest setback.

"Why would a homeless person be getting a water tower?"

Naive and unsuspecting people often buy properties at sheriff's sale
that aren't what they'd hoped. The house is uninhabitable, say, or
they mistakenly bought an empty lot.

But this isn't just about the unforgiving world of sheriff's sales,
where "buyer beware" is the motto - and there are no refunds.

This is worse.

This is about worthless property that should never be for sale to
begin with.

This is about old water towers, drainage ditches, access roads and
other unusable land that remain on city books and end up at sheriff's
sale.

It's about the people who discover it's there - in this case, a law
firm foreclosing on tax liens - and do nothing about it but recycle
the properties, allowing other unwitting buyers to be duped.

These properties amount to a trap, however unintentional, that
victimizes unsophisticated people who buy properties that no savvy
investor would.

Fortunately, in Berry's case there's a chance of a happy ending.

But how many similar stories are out there?

This property is one of thousands foreclosed on as part of a
complicated tax lien sale the city conducted seven years ago.

Berry, 58, thought she was buying a single home in Overbrook. The
official description in the sheriff's notice of sale didn't identify
it as a water tower.

The clue that Berry missed - as could anyone unfamiliar with the
process - was the letter "R" after the street address.

That meant "rear."

Not that Berry didn't check things out.

Sure, she was a recovering addict who'd been in prison and had made a
lifetime of mistakes, she said. But she was determined to do this
right.

"I did some things in my life I'm not too proud of, and I was trying
to get myself together. I know that the first thing you need is
somewhere to stay."

"People were saying that with sheriff's sales, you can get a house for
little or nothing and do a little work and fix it up," Berry said.

Even a dilapidated house she could fix up room by room would be better
than the way she lives now - paying a friend rent for a place to
sleep.

Her 31-year-old daughter has a corporate job out of state and she
wanted to help her mother start a new life.

She's not wealthy, but she was willing to borrow from her retirement
account to buy the house.

"She's a completely different person," the daughter said. "It was a
chance to start over."

So Denise Berry traveled the city, looking at properties on the
sheriff's sale list.

The house at 5860 Woodbine Ave. seemed to be all she hoped for: a big
house on a decent block in seemingly good repair.

Still determined to avoid a mistake, Berry knocked on the door and a
young woman answered.

"I asked her was this the address, and I told her it was a sheriff's
sale," Berry said.

"I think I'm helping them out, letting them know the house is on the
list."

Unfortunately, the wrong person answered Berry's knock that morning.
If Gislaine Michel would have answered - the way she did when I
knocked on a recent morning - she'd have told Berry the facts:

The house wasn't for sale. The eyesore in the back yard was.

The two-story stone tower has been there since the 1920s, when it was
built by the Overbrook Steam Heating Co. The company, which provided
water and steam heat to customers in Overbrook, went bankrupt in 1973.

The medieval-looking tower remained and is now so deteriorated that
it's been declared dangerous by the Department of Licenses and
Inspections. It would cost a fortune to demolish.

And that's what Berry had bought, as she and her daughter discovered
to their shock immediately after the sheriff's sale.

City Consumer Advocate Lance Haver - no fan of sheriff's sales for
inexperienced buyers to begin with - interceded on Berry's behalf.

"It's such a gut-wrenching thing to need a place to live," he said,
"and, under the auspices of government, to be offered a bargain - only
to find out this is not something that's appropriate."

Haver asked the law firm handling the foreclosures to refund Denise
Berry's money.

But managing attorney Sharon Humble, of Linebarger, Goggan, Blair &
Sampson - which is executing the foreclosures on behalf of Wachovia
Bank, the trustee for the bond sales - replied with a three-page
letter on July 2 that basically said: Not a chance.

Humble claimed that the sheriff's notice for the sale, which described
the property as an "irregular lot" in the "rear" owned by the
Overbrook Steam Heat Co., "should give any average citizen pause to
believe that the subject property is not a residence and that research
should be conducted before bidding on the property."

When I called the lawyer last week, at first she continued to insist
there was nothing she was legally required to do, or could do, about
the travesty.

"We have no duty to sell a property that's developable or habitable,"
she said. "It's simply foreclosing a tax lien and putting it up for
sale for whatever purpose somebody might buy it for."

And moral responsibility? To help out a hapless buyer who got stuck
with a property she can't use?

To spare other unwitting buyers from the same fate?

Because that's exactly what could happen. Berry forfeited her down
payment, which means the water tower now can be reslated for sheriff's
sale.

Eventually, Humble agreed that she could and - what do you know -
would ask the city solicitor's office to declare the tax liens
defective. "And if they will, then I can set aside the sales," she
said.

And so city officials will meet this week with all the parties
involved to to see what can be done, mayoral spokesman Dan Fee said.

Perhaps the story of Denise Berry's broken dream may have a happy
ending after all.

But it's appalling that she had to endure this much heartbreak.

And it makes me wonder: who else has fallen victim?
ares - 20 Jan 2005 23:51 GMT
Why do they have to write this in a way that they say the same thing over
and over and over; get to the dang point already........
ares

>> Its a Sheriff's Sale of worthless properties ..........
>
[quoted text clipped - 189 lines]
>
> And it makes me wonder: who else has fallen victim?
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 03 Feb 2005 03:47 GMT
UPDATE

Monday I got a call from somebody at the CDA.
The woman did not really have an answer for me but was trying to
convince me that i needed this permit despite the fact that i told her
that I am not dumping anything in the drain that is on the ban list.
She was trying to say that the ultasonic liquid is part of the ban.
I explained that only ultrasonic liquid and cold sterile solutions that
contain Aldehydes or Gluteraldehyde are a no no. In my office we use an
enzymatic biodegradable tablet for the ultrasonic solution. The stuff
we wipe our cequiptment down in not gluteraldehyde and is not entering
the sewer system.
This woman then tried to explain that this is a difficult issue and
that dentists are required to obtain this permit because they were
classified as an industry requiring one. In other words even if all i
do is consultations in my office if I have athe word dentist on my
front door then I am required to get this permit because this is what
was negociated. Which I think is a bunch of crap and is not
constitutional. The Government is not supposed to decriminate based on
classification "dentist". Either you are doing something that requires
this permit and you get it or if you are not then you should not need
it.

so the question here is I never called the CDA, how did she know I was
having this problem? She also mentioned that there is another dentist
in San Francisco in the same situation but she did not give me his name
and when I asked  for it she said he was in court over this.
I do not believe that i am alone on this and that most people are just
giving in to avoid the headache.
As far as environment, having this permit does nothing for the
environment since the permit allows you to dump gluteraldehyde and
mercury particles. So I am very confused.
Her you try to do something better for the environment by taking
measures to prevent polution and you get penalized for it.
At the same time there is an exemption if the discharge is 200
gallons/day or less which i fall under since I do not own the suction
it is maintained by the building.

I would imagine a sushi restaurant will produce more free mercury into
the toilet by it's customers then what is produced in a dental office.
Soon every resident will be required to have an industrial waste
disposal permit.
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 03 Feb 2005 04:16 GMT
My theory on this.

Fact - City of Los Angeles implemented a sewage recycling program to
convert raw sewage back to tap water in an effort to conserve water
somewhere 2003-2004.
Now they need $$$$ for this,  the original plan was to come up with
these permits as an excuse to generate these $$$$. Dentists were part
of this list because people like Jan Drew misinform the general public
about amalgam and dentists using mercury.
In reality what has happened is that they did not realize that fewer
and fewer dentitsts are using amalgam because of the new materials and
patients wishes to have tooth coloured fillings. They are now in a
panic to collect $$$ because dentists are not calling them to obtain
these permits and  hence the harrassment and the extortion.
The ADA and CDA were approched somewhere in the negotiation process and
because of the insurance companies wanting to minimize expenses on
claims there is a general desire to keep amalgam since tooth coloured
fillings cost more. The insurance industry does not want dentists to
use composites because it would cost them much more. And although
insurance companies can build this into the cost of the premiums there
is pressure from the compitition to keep prices down for the employers.
4 composite fillings will eat up the $1000 annual max very easilly
which means the employees would complain to the employers that their
plan sucks and the employers will complain to the insurance companies
or switch to a cheaper plan from a different insurance carrier.
So the solution would be to force dentists to get the permit and pass
the buck to the consumer or eat it because of the pressure from the
insurance contracts. In the next revision of the ADA codes I would not
be surprised to see a code for waste disposal permit. Once this code is
released managed care insurance plans will add it to their fee schedule
with a fee of $0 and dentists who are in contract with them will end up
eating this cost because the contract will prevent them from passing
the buck to the patient.
This is a very dirty business.
And as Joel would say it stinks too.
Jan - 03 Feb 2005 09:09 GMT
>money from dentists.
>From: "Alexander Vasserman DDS" purple543210@yahoo.ca

> Dentists were part
>of this list because people like Jan Drew misinform the general public
>about amalgam and dentists using mercury.

It is the ADA and detists here who misinform.

http://www.floridalcv.org/FLCVEdFund/environmental_effect_of_dental_a.htm

Have you any concern about amalgam ruining the environment??­??

Naaa,

You would rather talk about fish.

Let me remind you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Source                                    Average Human Dail­y Dose of
MercuryDental Amalgam                                      3­.0 - 17.0 ug/day
(hgvapor)Fish and Seafood                                   ­  2.3 ug/day
(methylmercury)Other Food                                   ­           0.3
ug/day (inorganichg)Air &Water                              ­            
Negligible traces(World Health Organization, Environmental H­ealth Criteria
118:
InorganicMercury, Geneva, 1991.)

http://www.lichtenberg.dk/mercury_vapour_in_the_oral_cavit.htm

Mercury from amalgams is the number one source in people.

"Mercury has been demonstrated as one possible cause of
Alzheimer's Disease, and the World Health Organization says ­­that people with
amalgams get more mercury from their fillings than from all ­­other sources
combined.

http://es.epa.gov/ncer_abstracts/sbir/other/water/roberts.html

Cleanup of Dental Amalgam Waste To Meet Sewer Regulation

Awarding Agency: National Institutes of Health
SBIR Contract Number: R43ES507886
Title: Cleanup of Dental Amalgam Waste To Meet Sewer Regulat­­ion
Principal Investigator: Daryl L. Roberts
Company Name:
ADA Technologies, Inc.
Honeywell Center, Suite 110
Englewood, CO 80112
Telephone Number:
Business Representative:
Project Period:
Project Amount: $93,662
Research Category: Water
Description:

In the United States and abroad, there has been a great deal­­ of concern by
the

public and health officials over the detrimental health effe­­cts caused by
bioaccumulation of mercury in lakes and streams, resulting i­­n regulatory
limits
for a variety of sources. Dental amalgam waste is attracting­­ substantial
attention as a major contributor to the mercury burden of mu­­nicipal water
treatment plants. In response, local authorities are impleme­­nting ordinances
requiring dental offices to recover waste dental amalgam. Co­­nventional
technologies for removing waste amalgam from operatory disch­­arge water have
proven insufficient to meet stringent discharge limits (typi­­cally 50 pg/L).
In

some cases, dental clinics have been forced to disconnect fr­­om the sewer
systems and have incurred expensive hazardous waste disposal­­ charges. ADA
Technologies proposes to develop and test a novel system to ­­reduce mercury
below 50 pg/L that will be comprised of a patented novel sor­­bent for removing

dissolved mercury, membrane filtration technology for removi­­ng fine amalgam
particles, and conventional technology for recovering the la­­rge amalgam
particles. The ADA sorbent has demonstrated the ability to r­­emove ionic and
elemental mercury from wastewater to levels below 1 g/L. Thi­­s system will be
available to thousands of commercial dental offices.

http://www.toxicteeth.org/pressRoom_releases_031903_polluters.cfm

THE NATION
Dentists Biggest Mercury Polluters, New Study Finds
Health: The metal is widely used in fillings and ends up in ­the nation's waste

water.

By ELIZABETH SHOGREN
TIMES STAFF WRITER June 6, 2002 WASHINGTON - Coal-fired powe­r plants are
notorious for being the biggest source of mercury pollution ­in the air. But
now, new attention is being directed at another, much less k­nown source of
mercury contamination in water--dentists. A new report shows­ that dentists are

the largest single source of mercury pollution in waste wate­r funneled into
the
nation's treatment plants. Mercury is a potent toxin that ca­n damage the human

brain, spinal cord, kidney and liver, and is especially dang­erous for unborn
children. While many other sources of mercury pollution have­ drastically cut
their use of the heavy metal, dentists continue to use it wi­dely in fillings.
"Pretty much all the mercury they're using gets released int­o the environment.

Why aren't they doing more to reduce that use?" said Michael­ Bender, director
of the Mercury Policy Project, a foundation-funded group tha­t was one of the
authors of the study. Power plants emit mercury into the air­ and it falls into

streams and rivers. Many dentists flush it down their drains­ and it goes
directly into waste-water treatment plants, which do not eff­ectively filter it

from the water. In a statement responding to the report, the­ American Dental
Assn. said it was aware that some particles from fillings en­d up in waste
water, and it urges dentists to follow proper procedures for­ handling and
recycling the composite used for fillings, which they refer ­to as "amalgam."
But the association argued that the mercury from their filli­ngs remains in a
form that is not harmful to humans. "However, a 1996 study f­ound that when
amalgam particles were subjected to simulated waste-water tr­eatment processes,

no soluble mercury was detected, even at a concentration of ­1 part per
billion," according to the statement. The group stressed tha­t it was currently

implementing a new plan to address the problem. The new repo­rt's authors said
that dentists, through voluntary or mandatory measures, shou­ld trap their
waste
mercury before it flows into plumbing fixtures that have bee­n contaminated
with
mercury for years. The report referred to a 2001 study by th­e Assn. of
Metropolitan Sewerage Agencies that evaluated seven major mu­nicipal
waste-water
treatment plants and determined that dental uses were "by fa­r" the greatest
contributors to the mercury reaching their facilities. They ­were responsible
for 40% of the load, three times more than the next largest ­contributor.
Several other countries regulate releases of dental mercury.­ In Canada, a new
standard requires dentists to trap the pieces of filling bef­ore they go down
the drain. The goal is to reduce releases by 95% by 2005. In­ May, the New
Hampshire Legislature became the first in the nation to pass­ legislation
governing disposal methods for dental mercury. The Californi­a Assembly
considered a measure to phase out the use of mercury in fill­ings but did not
adopt it. The report suggests that mercury in dentistry has ­become the
exception while other major users of mercury have changed th­eir practices. In
1985 dental facilities used 3% of all the mercury used natio­nwide. Last year,
although dentists used less mercury, their use accounted for­ 20% of all uses.
Only two other industries--wiring devices and switches and c­hloralkali--used
more. Gina Solomon, a physician who focuses on the health ef­fects of mercury
for the Natural Resources Defense Council, said that there w­as still
controversy about whether the fillings put dental patients a­t risk. And she
stressed that those who have such fillings should not get th­em removed,
because
taking them out heightens the chance of exposure. However, s­he said the
science
is clear that the mercury that goes down the drain can end u­p in the food
chain. "There is scientific consensus that mercury that ends­ up in the waste
water and water bodies will accumulate in the fish and pose ­a direct human
health problem to people who eat the fish; that is uncontrov­ersial and is
something that can be fixed,"  


http://www.toxicteeth.org/pressRoom_releases_031903_polluters.cfm

THE NATION
Dentists Biggest Mercury Polluters, New Study Finds
Health: The metal is widely used in fillings and ends up in the nation's waste
water.

By ELIZABETH SHOGREN
TIMES STAFF WRITER June 6, 2002 WASHINGTON - Coal-fired power plants are
notorious for being the biggest source of mercury pollution in the air. But
now, new attention is being directed at another, much less known source of
mercury contamination in water--dentists. A new report shows that dentists are
the largest single source of mercury pollution in waste water funneled into the
nation's treatment plants. Mercury is a potent toxin that can damage the human
brain, spinal cord, kidney and liver, and is especially dangerous for unborn
children. While many other sources of mercury pollution have drastically cut
their use of the heavy metal, dentists continue to use it widely in fillings.
"Pretty much all the mercury they're using gets released into the environment.
Why aren't they doing more to reduce that use?" said Michael Bender, director
of the Mercury Policy Project, a foundation-funded group that was one of the
authors of the study. Power plants emit mercury into the air and it falls into
streams and rivers. Many dentists flush it down their drains and it goes
directly into waste-water treatment plants, which do not effectively filter it
from the water. In a statement responding to the report, the American Dental
Assn. said it was aware that some particles from fillings end up in waste
water, and it urges dentists to follow proper procedures for handling and
recycling the composite used for fillings, which they refer to as "amalgam."
But the association argued that the mercury from their fillings remains in a
form that is not harmful to humans. "However, a 1996 study found that when
amalgam particles were subjected to simulated waste-water treatment processes,
no soluble mercury was detected, even at a concentration of 1 part per
billion," according to the statement. The group stressed that it was currently
implementing a new plan to address the problem. The new report's authors said
that dentists, through voluntary or mandatory measures, should trap their waste
mercury before it flows into plumbing fixtures that have been contaminated with
mercury for years. The report referred to a 2001 study by the Assn. of
Metropolitan Sewerage Agencies that evaluated seven major municipal waste-water
treatment plants and determined that dental uses were "by far" the greatest
contributors to the mercury reaching their facilities. They were responsible
for 40% of the load, three times more than the next largest contributor.
Several other countries regulate releases of dental mercury. In Canada, a new
standard requires dentists to trap the pieces of filling before they go down
the drain. The goal is to reduce releases by 95% by 2005. In May, the New
Hampshire Legislature became the first in the nation to pass legislation
governing disposal methods for dental mercury. The California Assembly
considered a measure to phase out the use of mercury in fillings but did not
adopt it. The report suggests that mercury in dentistry has become the
exception while other major users of mercury have changed their practices. In
1985 dental facilities used 3% of all the mercury used nationwide. Last year,
although dentists used less mercury, their use accounted for 20% of all uses.
Only two other industries--wiring devices and switches and chloralkali--used
more. Gina Solomon, a physician who focuses on the health effects of mercury
for the Natural Resources Defense Council, said that there was still
controversy about whether the fillings put dental patients at risk. And she
stressed that those who have such fillings should not get them removed, because
taking them out heightens the chance of exposure. However, she said the science
is clear that the mercury that goes down the drain can end up in the food
chain. "There is scientific consensus that mercury that ends up in the waste
water and water bodies will accumulate in the fish and pose a direct human
health problem to people who eat the fish; that is uncontroversial and is
something that can be fixed," Solomon said. If you want other stories on this
topic, search the Archives at www.latimes.com/archive. For information about
reprinting this article, go to www.lats.com/rights. Copyright 2002 Los Angeles
Times

http://www.epa.gov/epr/products/mintern.html

Mercury in Products

International Initiatives

Canada

Under its Canada Wide Standards (CWS)  program, Canada has s­elected a number
of
products and industry sectors for targeted mercury reduction­. Products covered

by the CWS for Mercury include mercury-containing lamps and ­dental amalgams.

http://www.solmetex.com

SolmeteX is a developer and manufacturer of products and sys­tems that perform
targeted, upstream heavy-metal binding and recovery.

Our patent-pending separation technology allows clients to p­reempt the need
for
costly cleanups and avoid expensive litigation.

SolmeteX clients include manufacturing and processing plants­,
biopharmaceutical
companies, municipalities, environmental consulting firms as­ well as dental
practices ranging from US Navy and teaching hospital clinics­ to one - chair
offices.        

http://es.epa.gov/ncer_abstracts/sbir/other/water/roberts.html

Cleanup of Dental Amalgam Waste To Meet Sewer Regulation

Awarding Agency: National Institutes of Health
SBIR Contract Number: R43ES507886
Title: Cleanup of Dental Amalgam Waste To Meet Sewer Regulat­ion
Principal Investigator: Daryl L. Roberts
Company Name:
ADA Technologies, Inc.
Honeywell Center, Suite 110
Englewood, CO 80112
Telephone Number:
Business Representative:
Project Period:
Project Amount: $93,662
Research Category: Water
Description:

In the United States and abroad, there has been a great deal­ of concern by the

public and health officials over the detrimental health effe­cts caused by
bioaccumulation of mercury in lakes and streams, resulting i­n regulatory
limits
for a variety of sources. Dental amalgam waste is attracting­ substantial
attention as a major contributor to the mercury burden of mu­nicipal water
treatment plants. In response, local authorities are impleme­nting ordinances
requiring dental offices to recover waste dental amalgam. Co­nventional
technologies for removing waste amalgam from operatory disch­arge water have
proven insufficient to meet stringent discharge limits (typi­cally 50 pg/L). In

some cases, dental clinics have been forced to disconnect fr­om the sewer
systems and have incurred expensive hazardous waste disposal­ charges. ADA
Technologies proposes to develop and test a novel system to ­reduce mercury
below 50 pg/L that will be comprised of a patented novel sor­bent for removing
dissolved mercury, membrane filtration technology for removi­ng fine amalgam
particles, and conventional technology for recovering the la­rge amalgam
particles. The ADA sorbent has demonstrated the ability to r­emove ionic and
elemental mercury from wastewater to levels below 1 g/L. Thi­s system will be
available to thousands of commercial dental offices.
Joel M. Eichen - 03 Feb 2005 12:15 GMT
>>money from dentists.
>>From: "Alexander Vasserman DDS" purple543210@yahoo.ca
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>It is the ADA and detists here who misinform.

When Jan eats sushi she imitates the bear in the woods to avoid
discharging into the sewer system.

>http://www.floridalcv.org/FLCVEdFund/environmental_effect_of_dental_a.htm
>
>Have you any concern about amalgam ruining the environment??­??
W_B - 03 Feb 2005 15:29 GMT
>When Jan eats sushi she imitates the bear in the woods to avoid
>discharging into the sewer system.

She goes to see the pope ?
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Joel M. Eichen - 03 Feb 2005 21:08 GMT
>>When Jan eats sushi she imitates the bear in the woods to avoid
>>discharging into the sewer system.
>
>She goes to see the pope ?

Yup, and prays with the bear too ,,,,,,, you remember the bear is
Catholic ......
MC60614 - 06 Feb 2005 05:14 GMT
Reminds me of Elizabeth Taylor's Parfume which I called I Do Toilets...MC
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 03 Feb 2005 16:07 GMT
> >money from dentists.
> >From: "Alexander Vasserman DDS" purple543210@yahoo.ca
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> It is the ADA and detists here who misinform.

http://www.floridalcv.org/FLCVEdFund/environmental_effect_of_dental_a.htm

> Have you any concern about amalgam ruining the environment??­??
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> (hgvapor)Fish and Seafood                                   ­  2.3 ug/day
> (methylmercury)Other Food                                   ­
  0.3
> ug/day (inorganichg)Air &Water                              ­

> Negligible traces(World Health Organization, Environmental H­ealth Criteria
> 118:
> InorganicMercury, Geneva, 1991.)
Even if those numbers were true or relevant which they are not , People
do not ingest amalgam for breakfest/lunch/dinner. I do not put it in so
they do not get their average daily dose from me.
Also the question here is not the quantity in the mouths but what is
not absorbed and goes out the other end. According to your logic anyone
with amalgam in their mouth needs to obtain an industrial waste
disposal permit.
Joel M. Eichen - 03 Feb 2005 21:09 GMT
>> >money from dentists.
>> >From: "Alexander Vasserman DDS" purple543210@yahoo.ca
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>Also the question here is not the quantity in the mouths but what is
>not absorbed and goes out the other end.

Don't start with that, you know
what Jan recommends, don't you?

Joel

According to your logic anyone
>with amalgam in their mouth needs to obtain an industrial waste
>disposal permit.
clintonz@prodigy.net - 03 Feb 2005 23:48 GMT
> Even if those numbers were true or relevant which they are not , People

Don't post that garbage about fish being mehtyl. The
ADA doesn't even STUDY the maximum methyl uptake from
amalgam. considering that I'm sure the toxic load due
to some amalgam is 100-1000 times greater than 17 ug

WHAT are the RANGES for mehtyl and elemental Hg expoure
from amalgam. WHAT are the upper and lower bounds.
How can you have read this list for a year and say that.Your
either full of it or retarded.

You people don't give a living darn about if amalgam
harms people do you. As long as your business expenses
don't go any higher and no one subpeona's you to testify
about it or throws you in jail. To heck with you.

> do not ingest amalgam for breakfest/lunch/dinner. I do not put

Elememtal Hg vapor is probably much greater than 17 ug per day in
many cases and is inhaled every second of every day.

it in so
> they do not get their average daily dose from me.

You are part of an organization which STill UNEQUIVACOLY
endorses it's use and openly lies to the media about it's
stability and other properties.

> Also the question here is not the quantity in the mouths but what is
> not absorbed and goes out the other end.

Apparently most of what you read comes in one end
and goes out the other.

According to your logic anyone
> with amalgam in their mouth needs to obtain an industrial waste
> disposal permit.

Is amalgam the largest source of Hg in the human population?
Joel M. Eichen - 04 Feb 2005 00:28 GMT
>Don't post that garbage about fish being mehtyl

Fish is not mehtyl although the outside looks mehtyllic sometimes in
strong sunshine.
clintonz@prodigy.net - 03 Feb 2005 23:49 GMT
> Even if those numbers were true or relevant which they are not , People

Don't post that garbage about fish being mehtyl. The
ADA doesn't even STUDY the maximum methyl uptake from
amalgam. considering that I'm sure the toxic load due
to some amalgam is 100-1000 times greater than 17 ug

WHAT are the RANGES for mehtyl and elemental Hg expoure
from amalgam. WHAT are the upper and lower bounds.
How can you have read this list for a year and say that.Your
either full of it or retarded.

You people don't give a living darn about if amalgam
harms people do you. As long as your business expenses
don't go any higher and no one subpeona's you to testify
about it or throws you in jail. To heck with you.

> do not ingest amalgam for breakfest/lunch/dinner. I do not put

Elememtal Hg vapor is probably much greater than 17 ug per day in
many cases and is inhaled every second of every day.

it in so
> they do not get their average daily dose from me.

You are part of an organization which STill UNEQUIVACOLY
endorses it's use and openly lies to the media about it's
stability and other properties.

> Also the question here is not the quantity in the mouths but what is
> not absorbed and goes out the other end.

Apparently most of what you read comes in one end
and goes out the other.

According to your logic anyone
> with amalgam in their mouth needs to obtain an industrial waste
> disposal permit.

Is amalgam the largest source of Hg in the human population?
MC60614 - 03 Feb 2005 23:20 GMT
Thanks for the reminder, I have Salmon awaiting me. MC
Joel M. Eichen - 04 Feb 2005 00:29 GMT
>Thanks for the reminder, I have Salmon awaiting me. MC

Would that be Mr. Rushdie?
Joel M. Eichen - 03 Feb 2005 12:14 GMT
>Fact - City of Los Angeles implemented a sewage recycling program to
>convert raw sewage back to tap water in an effort to conserve water
>somewhere 2003-2004.
>Now they need $$$$ for this,  

Yup, that is the philosophy of
every governmental unit in this country.

Does your water bill pay for only
water and not pay for patronage? Doubtful.

Joel
R. - 06 Feb 2005 16:13 GMT
>In reality what has happened is that they did not realize that fewer
>and fewer dentitsts are using amalgam because of the new materials and
>patients wishes to have tooth coloured fillings.

You take them out, even if you don't install them.

> They are now in a
>panic to collect $$$ because dentists are not calling them to obtain
>these permits and  hence the harrassment and the extortion.

harrassment, extortion??  
clintonz@prodigy.net - 03 Feb 2005 10:04 GMT
.

> I would imagine a sushi restaurant will produce more free mercury into
> the toilet by it's customers then what is produced in a dental office.
> Soon every resident will be required to have an industrial waste
> disposal permit.

Imagine is a good word.
Vaughn Simon - 03 Feb 2005 12:28 GMT
> so the question here is I never called the CDA, how did she know I was
> having this problem? She also mentioned that there is another dentist
> in San Francisco in the same situation but she did not give me his name
> and when I asked  for it she said he was in court over this.
.

    Does California have a Public Information "Sunshine" law?  If so,
getting whatever information you demand (or even direct access to their
files) is a simple process...and will drive them crazy!

Vaughn
CWatters - 03 Feb 2005 21:35 GMT
> I am required to get this permit because this is what
> was negociated.

Did you agree to a third party negotiating on your behalf? Perhaps through
membership of an organisation like a union or licensing authority? If not
how can a third party commit you to this? They can't unless you either a)
agreed or b) there is a law that give this third party legal rights to
negotiate on your behalf.

By the way my brother says you owe me $100. He thinks you need better
quality paper clips and we agreed a good deal for you. I'll send a woman
round to collect the money later this week. OK?
StovePipe - 05 Feb 2005 18:15 GMT
> The woman did not really have an answer for me but was trying to
> convince me that i needed this permit despite the fact that i told her
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> we wipe our cequiptment down in not gluteraldehyde and is not entering
> the sewer system.

Al: What are you using to wipe down your keyboard?
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Alexander Vasserman DDS - 06 Feb 2005 03:33 GMT
We try not to touch the keyboard with the gloves or it's the pinky
finger which was not in the mouth, but when we do we use a
tuburcullocidal spray can't remember the name off hand. I usually clean
the keyboard myself because it's my laptop that I take home with me. I
spay on a guaze and then wipe. I'm thinking about getting those peel
away sticky plastic wrappers.
StovePipe - 06 Feb 2005 08:50 GMT
> We try not to touch the keyboard with the gloves or it's the pinky
> finger which was not in the mouth, but when we do we use a
> tuburcullocidal spray can't remember the name off hand. I usually clean
> the keyboard myself because it's my laptop that I take home with me. I
> spay on a guaze and then wipe. I'm thinking about getting those peel
> away sticky plastic wrappers.

That's what DrS uses. I think you'll find you make less errors.
Cheers
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Roy Brown - 06 Feb 2005 08:54 GMT
| > We try not to touch the keyboard with the gloves or it's the pinky
| > finger which was not in the mouth, but when we do we use a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
| Cheers
| SP

What about Saran Wrap as a barrier?
W_B - 07 Feb 2005 00:56 GMT
>| > We try not to touch the keyboard with the gloves or it's the pinky
>| > finger which was not in the mouth, but when we do we use a
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>What about Saran Wrap as a barrier?

Works great when tightly wrapped around the head.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
StovePipe - 07 Feb 2005 02:36 GMT
> >| That's what DrS uses. I think you'll find you make less errors.
> >| Cheers
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> --
> W_B

..... ???? !... OK, lessee...
<rrrriiittt> <tear> <crinkle>
<sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof>
<sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof>....
<plock!>....

<Rummhhhmm!>

<mmmfftmmf!> <lmdfmnnpprm??> <umm!!!> <Umm!> <UUMMM!!!>
<UUURRRRMMMMHHH!>
<boom!> <shlik!>  <shlik!> <shlik!>
<babballmaddmn...!>

<plork!> <plork!!> <PLORK!!> <PLORK!!>

<Ummmhhmmmrmm!...>
<snif!> <snif!> <snif!>
<scritch...> <crink..> <tttiiirrrr> <crinkle...>
<Ufffmfmmhhrmmf-blllaatt!!>
....'s a real good thing I had a BIC pen handy!
<whew!>...
I hadda shove the BIC pen up my nostrils... the pen with a thousand and
one uses!
<honk!> <snif> <brawahwahwah!!!> <snif>

... So tell me... <snif> <brawahwahwah!!!>

...<hack!> <hork...> <snif>

.... Who won the football game? <snifff..>

......................      ;-)
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

MC60614 - 08 Feb 2005 08:50 GMT
Only if it tightly encompasses the nose and mouth..MC
StovePipe - 07 Feb 2005 02:36 GMT
> | That's what DrS uses. I think you'll find you make less errors.
> | Cheers
> | SP
>
> What about Saran Wrap as a barrier?

...'s OK, I guess... I'd like to see BIG BILL get off his a.s and make a
sterilizable key board... would be good for the Mad Dogs in the
operating rooms as well...
JMO
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Dr Steve - 07 Feb 2005 19:45 GMT
There is a flat, roll-up keyboard available with PS-2 cable that can be
immersed in fluids.  I would have to look it up again.  I think it is easier
to just get a vinyl cover for it.

www.viziflex.com

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
>> | That's what DrS uses. I think you'll find you make less errors.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> JMO
> SP
Roy Brown - 08 Feb 2005 00:28 GMT
One of these?
http://www.ergopro.com/index.cfm?obj=prodDetails&pID=381
http://www.adesso.com/products.asp?categoryid=7&subcatid=16
Signature

Roy
rem NADA to reply

| There is a flat, roll-up keyboard available with PS-2 cable that can be
| immersed in fluids.  I would have to look it up again.  I think it is easier
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
| > JMO
| > SP
Dr. Steve - 08 Feb 2005 02:39 GMT
>One of these?
>http://www.ergopro.com/index.cfm?obj=prodDetails&pID=381
>http://www.adesso.com/products.asp?categoryid=7&subcatid=16

Yes
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting.
Dr. Steve - 06 Feb 2005 18:21 GMT
>> We try not to touch the keyboard with the gloves or it's the pinky
>> finger which was not in the mouth, but when we do we use a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Cheers
>SP

No Lap-Top in treatment rooms. Hard wired network with Desktop PC's.
Keyboards are sealed under a clear vinyl cover.

..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting.
W_B - 07 Feb 2005 00:55 GMT
>> We try not to touch the keyboard with the gloves or it's the pinky
>> finger which was not in the mouth, but when we do we use a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Cheers
>SP

Dr. Suess ?

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
StovePipe - 07 Feb 2005 02:36 GMT
> >That's what DrS uses. I think you'll find you make less errors.
> >Cheers
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> --
> W_B

.... I do not like them on a train
I do not like them on a plane
I do not like them on a boat
I do not like them on a float
I do not like Green Eggs and Ham
I do not like them, Sam-I-Am....

.... great literature...
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Sdores - 07 Feb 2005 13:07 GMT
Love your humor!  UM MOM Susan

>> >That's what DrS uses. I think you'll find you make less errors.
>> >Cheers
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> .... great literature...
Joel M. Eichen - 06 Feb 2005 13:23 GMT
>We try not to touch the keyboard with the gloves or it's the pinky
>finger which was not in the mouth, but when we do we use a
>tuburcullocidal spray can't remember the name off hand. I usually clean
>the keyboard myself because it's my laptop that I take home with me. I
>spay on a guaze and then wipe. I'm thinking about getting those peel
>away sticky plastic wrappers.

Some of my best posts were when I was spraying on the gauze, wiping,
and then realizing I was still connected to sci.med.dentistry.

So what did I do next?

I hit SEND.

Joel
Dr. Steve - 06 Feb 2005 18:17 GMT
>We try not to touch the keyboard with the gloves or it's the pinky
>finger which was not in the mouth, but when we do we use a
>tuburcullocidal spray can't remember the name off hand. I usually clean
>the keyboard myself because it's my laptop that I take home with me. I
>spay on a guaze and then wipe. I'm thinking about getting those peel
>away sticky plastic wrappers.

A laptop in the treatment room ? get with the program
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting.
R. - 06 Feb 2005 16:13 GMT
>UPDATE

>that dentists are required to obtain this permit because they were
>classified as an industry requiring one.

Yes. so?

> In other words even if all i
>do is consultations in my office if I have athe word dentist on my
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>this permit and you get it or if you are not then you should not need
>it.

oh yeah, unconstitional heh discrimination hhhaaaa.

>so the question here is I never called the CDA, how did she know I was
>having this problem?

Public utilites and cda together getting dentists to comply?

> She also mentioned that there is another dentist
>in San Francisco in the same situation but she did not give me his name
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>environment since the permit allows you to dump gluteraldehyde and
>mercury particles. So I am very confused.

Is this simply a permit for a seperator device on the drain?
IF SO, bfd, just do it.  What's the big deal?  bfd!

>Here you try to do something better for the environment by taking
>measures to prevent polution and you get penalized for it.

>At the same time there is an exemption if the discharge is 200
>gallons/day or less which i fall under since I do not own the suction
>it is maintained by the building.
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 07 Feb 2005 01:43 GMT
mercury particles. So I am very confused.

> Is this simply a permit for a seperator device on the drain?
> IF SO, bfd, just do it.  What's the big deal?  bfd!

The permit is for allowing you to dump mercury, gluteraldehyde,
alcohol, precious metals, acetone,plus other chemicals on the list in
any form or small quantities into the drain has nothing to do with
separators.
Fixer and developer still need to be picked up.

The BFD is I am not dumping these substances and so I should not be
threatened with $1000/day/violation fines and 6 months jail time for
not getting a permit I do not need. All this because CDA has negociated
some deal on behalf of all dentists including those who are not even
members of their organization and those who are not even contributing
waste into the sewage system such as oral surgeons,perio surgeons,
orthodontists, and other dentists like myself who do not have amalgam
and mercury in the office.
R. - 07 Feb 2005 19:52 GMT
>mercury particles. So I am very confused.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>threatened with $1000/day/violation fines and 6 months jail time for
>not getting a permit I do not need.

If the permit REALLY does not apply to you, then apply for an
exemption from whatever gov entity issues the permit.
Talk to the right person, get the forms, and fill out every form
exactly how they tell you to, all very friendly and co-operating.
Invite someone over to inspect the place.  But you better
be REALLY SURE if you do that!

>All this because CDA has negociated
>some deal on behalf of all dentists including those who are not even
>members of their organization and those who are not even contributing
>waste into the sewage system such as oral surgeons,perio surgeons,
>orthodontists, and other dentists like myself who do not have amalgam
>and mercury in the office.

Don't you ever remove amalgam fillings?  I cannot imagine a situation
in a dental office where amalgam fillings are never removed.  Don't
cosmetic dentists ever grind out amalgam fillings?

In SF, public utilities and cda together required the seperator
that costs $1,000 with periodic disposal of the metals that are
trapped.  So its a waste disposal permit.  The fine for not doing
it is $10,000.  Maybe what you are talking about is completely
different.  It could be.

S.F. moves to stop mercury in fillings from heading for sewage
treatment plants
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/30/MNGKT7EC461.DTL
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 08 Feb 2005 00:33 GMT
In the odd situation that I encounter amalgam (very rare in my
practice), I have the spit plus waste picked up. I have a portable
suction not connected to the drain.

There are no forms for applying for exemption like I said it's
extortion what is so hard to understand. Imagine this analogy, all
persons owning x-ray equiptment need a permit from Department Health
and Human Services. You on the other hand do not own an x-ray machine
and a representative from this department accuses you of breaking the
law and threatens you obtain this permit or there are big fines and
jail time.
How would you feel??? What form do you want to look for for exemptions
or ethically should you???
On the waste application there is a fee to be submitted with the
application of $350 and a box state number of gallons of forbiden waste
disposed in the drain. In my case that number is zero but I still have
to pay the fee and there is no box to get out it becomes an annual
thing "we collect your money and you are a proud owner of a permit".

> >mercury particles. So I am very confused.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> S.F. moves to stop mercury in fillings from heading for sewage
> treatment plants

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/30/MNGKT7EC461.DTL
Jan - 08 Feb 2005 02:40 GMT
>Subject: Re: Government extorting money from dentists.
>From: "Alexander Vasserman DDS" purple543210@yahoo.ca
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>practice), I have the spit plus waste picked up. I have a portable
>suction not connected to the drain

Has it ever entered your mind that the mercury coming from the mouth is toxic?

Had the ADA been truthful years ago, we wouldnt have this problem.

If the dentists would have refused to use amalgam as in the beginning, we
wouldn't have this problem.

If amalgams were banned, the problem would not exist.

Since most dentists prefer to remain in denial, this is the result.

http://www.dcdental.org/amalgam.html

http://www.nyas.org/programs/harbor_rec.asp

I haven't followed this theat much and still haven't received an e-mail from
one who would know, however I will also say, some inspectors harass because
they have an authority problem.

Jan
clintonz@prodigy.net - 08 Feb 2005 03:28 GMT
> >Subject: Re: Government extorting money from dentists.
> >From: "Alexander Vasserman DDS" purple543210@yahoo.ca
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> >practice), I have the spit plus waste picked up. I have a portable
> >suction not connected to the drain

Imagine this analogy. A state decides that the air is
being polluted by car drivers in general. To "compensate"
for this ALL drivers are charged a $300 "smog impact"
fee if their car is made before a certain year or they
come from out of state etc, even if their car meets
smog requirments. Unfair?

I can't blame Alex personally for the use/impact of amalgam,
being not a whole lot older than me, he was probably still
a kid himself when I had my first amalgams placed, but i agree
that those who have used amalgam throughout their careers
should pay a health/environment "impact fee".
Jan - 08 Feb 2005 04:23 GMT
>Subject: Re: Government extorting money from dentists.
>From: clintonz@prodigy.net
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>that those who have used amalgam throughout their careers
>should pay a health/environment "impact fee".

Correct, and those dentists wh refuse tiobelieve studies, acknowledge the
effects of vapors and improvements are in effect extorting some people's
health.

Jan
Joel M. Eichen - 08 Feb 2005 11:41 GMT
>>Subject: Re: Government extorting money from dentists.
>>From: "Alexander Vasserman DDS" purple543210@yahoo.ca
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Has it ever entered your mind that the mercury coming from the mouth is toxic?

As we say, in toxicology, the DOSE is the poison!

Joel

Jan is poison!

>Had the ADA been truthful years ago, we wouldnt have this problem.
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Jan
MC60614 - 08 Feb 2005 08:43 GMT
Just remember, computers are letting off radiation..MC
Joel M. Eichen - 08 Feb 2005 11:42 GMT
>Just remember, computers are letting off radiation..MC

Worse, cows are destroying the ozone layer.
Jan - 08 Feb 2005 18:15 GMT
>Subject: Re: Government extorting money from dentists.
>From: mc60614@aol.com  (MC60614)
>Date: 2/8/2005 12:43 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <20050208034342.08434.00000547@mb-m06.aol.com>
>
>Just remember, computers are letting off radiation..MC

Don't forget, mercury from amalgams are the number one source of mercury in
people.
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 09 Feb 2005 22:43 GMT
So are wisdom teeth.
R. - 08 Feb 2005 17:56 GMT
>In the odd situation that I encounter amalgam (very rare in my
>practice), I have the spit plus waste picked up. I have a portable
>suction not connected to the drain.

okay then, you already have it covered.

>There are no forms for applying for exemption like I said it's
>extortion what is so hard to understand. Imagine this analogy, all
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>jail time.  How would you feel???   What form do you want to look
>for for exemptions or ethically should you???

I would find the person in charge, but that's just me.

>On the waste application there is a fee to be submitted with the
>application of $350 and a box state number of gallons of forbiden waste
>disposed in the drain. In my case that number is zero but I still have
>to pay the fee and there is no box to get out it becomes an annual
>thing "we collect your money and you are a proud owner of a permit".

Well, seems this permit does not apply to you then.
$350/yr is not so steep...regardless of how much,how often, probably
could be straightened out if you find the right beaurocrat at LA
County or whatever the gov agency is...would take some (friendly,
professional, courteous) time on the phone being shuffled around to a
number of different people before you find the right person to sort
this out, give you an exemption, or whatever way they can correct
the situation for you.  

>> >mercury particles. So I am very confused.
>> >>
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>>
>http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/30/MNGKT7EC461.DTL
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 09 Feb 2005 22:49 GMT
Interesting enought the city had the CDA call me and after our
conversation I was told the CDA will find some more info and email it
to me. I have not heard from them.
The problem here is they are trying to place all dentists in a group
requiring this permit regardless of what is done in each individual
dental office. If this permit has to do with the licence to practice
dentistry that's one thing and perhaps a portion of those fees should
be allocated to this cause but as it stands that is not the case.
R. - 10 Feb 2005 17:10 GMT
>Interesting enought the city had the CDA call me and after our
>conversation I was told the CDA will find some more info and email it
>to me. I have not heard from them.
>The problem here is they are trying to place all dentists in a group
>requiring this permit regardless of what is done in each individual
>dental office.

They can do it however they want... disposal, monitoring
hazardous substances you all deal with are regulated by state,
local law.  Even if you generate less than the dentist down
the road.  They want to monitor it, and they can.

>If this permit has to do with the licence to practice
>dentistry that's one thing and perhaps a portion of those fees should
>be allocated to this cause but as it stands that is not the case.

You might not like how it stands now, but who cares?
Its THE LAW.
;0
R. - 08 Feb 2005 20:52 GMT
>In the odd situation that I encounter amalgam (very rare in my
>practice), I have the spit plus waste picked up. I have a portable
>suction not connected to the drain.
...
>On the waste application there is a fee to be submitted with the
>application of $350 and a box state number of gallons of forbiden waste
>disposed in the drain. In my case that number is zero but I still have
>to pay the fee and there is no box to get out it becomes an annual
>thing "we collect your money and you are a proud owner of a permit".

On second thought, it's possible the permit is required
regardless where the waste is being disposed of, even if it
is not going into the public sewage system.
if this is the case, don't worry about it, just enjoy the beautiful
county beaches, parks, etc, every now and then.

>> >mercury particles. So I am very confused.
>> >>
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>>
>http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/30/MNGKT7EC461.DTL
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 09 Feb 2005 22:41 GMT
That is not the case.
The psychaitrist next door is not being forced to get this permit.

> >In the odd situation that I encounter amalgam (very rare in my
> >practice), I have the spit plus waste picked up. I have a portable
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
>
>http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/30/MNGKT7EC461.DTL
R. - 10 Feb 2005 17:11 GMT
>That is not the case.
>The psychaitrist next door is not being forced to get this permit.

oh please.  The psychiatrist does not have hazardous waste picked
up from his office.  Only "toxic emotions" heh.

>> >In the odd situation that I encounter amalgam (very rare in my
>> >practice), I have the spit plus waste picked up. I have a portable
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
>>
>>http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/30/MNGKT7EC461.DTL
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 11 Feb 2005 01:17 GMT
The point here is I am not generating any just like the psychiatrist
across the hall from me.
less than anyone else and none are 2 different things.

> >That is not the case.
> >The psychaitrist next door is not being forced to get this permit.
[quoted text clipped - 73 lines]
>
>>http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/30/MNGKT7EC461.DTL
R. - 11 Feb 2005 17:17 GMT
okay dude, like - *whatever*. good luck with that.

>The point here is I am not generating any just like the psychiatrist
>across the hall from me.
[quoted text clipped - 88 lines]
>>
>>>http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/30/MNGKT7EC461.DTL
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 08 Feb 2005 00:40 GMT
Don't you ever remove amalgam fillings?  I cannot imagine a situation
in a dental office where amalgam fillings are never removed.  Don't
cosmetic dentists ever grind out amalgam fillings?

cosmetic dentists grind the tooth around the fillings. And then the
patient gets to take is home and give it to the tooth fairy.

Just kidding. :)
R. - 08 Feb 2005 17:57 GMT
>Don't you ever remove amalgam fillings?  I cannot imagine a situation
>in a dental office where amalgam fillings are never removed.  Don't
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Just kidding. :)

lol.
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 18 Jan 2005 18:17 GMT
The other people got hit with the notices as well in fact there were 2
people with their government id's that showed up.

this was later followed by the fine notice which was sent by certified
mail ie I had to sign that I recieved it.

The medical buildings can be classified as 2 types.

1 one central suction for the whole bulding going into one public waste
drain

2 each suite having a suction pump and compressor which eventually goes
into the public drain.

My building is that of type 1 plus I have an independent portable
suction unit not connected to the city.

Although when I signed the lease the selling point was that I did not
need to have my own suction compressor nor deal with its maintenance or
its waste that was part of my rent and it was alwaYS TAKEN CARE OF BY
THE BUILDING.
The Government wants every business in that building to have a permit
regardless of who owns and maintains the vacuum. They are saying that
it is not the building that needs the permit thaty individual dentists
need to have it.
Basicly the only way they new i existed was they sent their people up
and down business streets and if they encountered a DDS or DMD they got
the notice regardless of what is actually done there.

I got out of the ADA and CDA since I did not get any results or the
slightest bit of action from them in the past. I was a member for 14
years paid my dues and got nothing worth while out of it. As far as I'm
concerned they are part of the reason I'm in this mess because they
helped to convince the city that every DDS/DMD deals with amalgam
including all the specialists, hygiene only practices as well.
You know when I applied for my business licence the government was
trying to convince me that I needed a retail licence and I should be
charging my patients sales tax on the crowns, fillings etc.... I had to
fight with them to get my money back after I realized what this extra
licence was for.

> | > So you think I should do a press release?
> |
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> property management should be paying the fee. Got a local dental association
> that might want to help out with everyone in your area?
StovePipe - 19 Jan 2005 05:24 GMT
> I got out of the ADA and CDA since I did not get any results or the
> slightest bit of action from them in the past. I was a member for 14
> years paid my dues and got nothing worth while out of it. As far as I'm
> concerned they are part of the reason I'm in this mess because they
> helped to convince the city that every DDS/DMD deals with amalgam
> including all the specialists, hygiene only practices as well.

I also think that your LOCAL dental association is the best bet to fight
this thing. If it goes to lawyers, etc, then I'd want them to represent
the totality of the local profession, and that way you have some clout,
perhaps a bit of newsworthiness, and you spread the fees out.
Just an idea..
SP

Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

W_B - 19 Jan 2005 20:19 GMT
>So you think I should do a press release?

Why not.
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
ares - 20 Jan 2005 23:46 GMT
Wouldn't it be a better idea to call someone in the ADA or local dental
associations and see what they're saying first?  What are your peers saying
about it?  Are they being harassed too?  It's not a scam then?
ares

> So you think I should do a press release?
Joel M. Eichen - 18 Jan 2005 17:21 GMT
>The City of Los Angeles has resorted to extortion

Well they extort from everyone else, why not the dentists?

Joel
 
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