Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / February 2005
Government extorting money from dentists.
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Alexander Vasserman DDS - 17 Jan 2005 23:18 GMT The City of Los Angeles has resorted to extortion.
In August some woman from the City of Los Angeles Department of Public Works Showed up at my office while I was out on personal business. She handed an application for an Industrial Waste Permit which involved a registration fee and a video on proper handling of amalgam waste dually created by the ADA/CDA. This woman did not examine this office and was ademant about convincing my staff that we are in violation of the city ordinance just because they met with The ADA/CDA and it was determined that all dentists are. I am in a medical building where we have centralized air and suction system. Appearently this fee is supposed to allow you to dispose of gluteraldehyde, ketones, alcohols, and elemental amalgam particles plus other similar materials into the public sewage system by providing you with a permit to do so. GO FIGURE THE LOGIC????? It also is supposed to supervise the collection of fixer developer and amalgam and precious metal scrap and lead foils from x-ray film but nobody ever shows up to check this. At this point I am not ever sure that this foil is actually lead probably aluminum since the film is so sensitive now a days but only KODAK knows for sure and that's another discussion and doesn't apply to my case since i have digital x-rays. NOw I do not place any Amalgam nor have I for many years, I have digital x-rays which I invested in earlier this year. I also do not remove amalgam I'm mostly a veneer practice. And the rare occasion that I run into a silver filling I have an independent suction system separate from the city and we have the waste picked up when enough of it accumulated. Also we do not dump gluteraldehyde into the drain it is used for wiping down equiptment only. The ultrasonic cleaner we use is biodegradable enzymatic and is not on the city's forbidden list. Extacted teeth are soacked on bleach and given to their respected owners enamel, amalgam and all. And they can either store these teeth in their mouths as recommended by the FDA or in class jars under mineral oil. So where you may ask this is going??? Last week I recieve an invoice/violation notice from the city with a fine for $350 for being in violation of illegally discharging condemened mercury into the city sewage system. this invoice contains further threats of this being punishable by a misdemeanor jail time and an additional $1000.00 fine. They can test for these acts by taking a sample or photograph. What if my patient had too much sushi and rinsed their mouth in my cuspidor? or what if there is something in the lines from the previous dentists who practiced in my office before I bought it?? And the piss of the whole thing is I am not guilty of any of this stuff this woman just walks by picks up a business card with DDS or DMD behind it and all of a sudden I am accused of being guilty. I am begining to suffer anxiety attacks and mental anguish as a result of these threats. Where is the ADA/CDA on this harassment?
This amalgam thing is like a nightmare you can't escape it, you try not not put it in and yet it still haunts you. Since I am not contributing to it's placement I feel it is unethical for me to pay for the actions of others. Dentists that refused to place it had their licences revoked in the past now they are being penalized for what everybody else is doing with these HMO games. The dental boards still have the amalgam as past of their licensure exam. What the hell is this system coming to, makes you just want to hang up the handpiece.
carabelli - 18 Jan 2005 00:00 GMT > The City of Los Angeles has resorted to extortion. > > In August some woman from the City of Los Angeles Department of Public > Works Showed up at my office while I was out on personal business. > She handed an application for an Industrial Waste Permit .......... Well if this were happening to me I would be more than a little PO'd.
I would rewrite a draft of your post, send it to "Letters to the Editor" for every LA newspaper. Then I would send a copy (certified mail) to the mayor, every city council member and the head of Public Works, along with a letter stating that they better check up on liability coverage because you are going to sue their sorry butts if this is not resolved immediately.
I suppose (sigh) it would be wise to give your attorney a heads up before you do it, but that would take all the fun out of it. carabelli
Steven Fawks - 18 Jan 2005 14:20 GMT Local 'extortion' so far, has been limited to having an 'anti suck back' valve installed at the office and paying an annual fee to have it inspected.
The stupidity here is that my dental units are not even hooked up to city water.
Like Alex, I don't use amalgam in my practice (2005 marks 20 years since my last trituration), but I do cut a lot of it out of teeth in the normal course of treatment. I could understand a separater being a good idea.
If Alex is an ADA member, he should contact them also.
JMO, Fawks
>>The City of Los Angeles has resorted to extortion. >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > you do it, but that would take all the fun out of it. > carabelli Joel M. Eichen - 18 Jan 2005 00:27 GMT Unbelievable. Thanks for sharing with us.
Joel
>The City of Los Angeles has resorted to extortion. > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] >past of their licensure exam. What the hell is this system coming to, >makes you just want to hang up the handpiece. Alexander Vasserman DDS - 18 Jan 2005 00:52 GMT So you think I should do a press release?
carabelli - 18 Jan 2005 02:46 GMT > So you think I should do a press release? I think a letter to the editor would suffice, but that is your call. The point is to be certain the powers that be have their bell rung at the same time.
carabelli
Roy Brown - 18 Jan 2005 15:53 GMT | > So you think I should do a press release? | [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | | carabelli Did the inspector leave their card back in August? You might want to check with the office of your local councillor first. See what they can do and verify that this is not a scam. If it's not a scam and your councillor can do nothing, then it is letter time. What about the other people in the building? If it is a centralized system which is part of your rent or condo fees, then only the property management should be paying the fee. Got a local dental association that might want to help out with everyone in your area?
 Signature Roy rem NADA to reply
Joel M. Eichen - 18 Jan 2005 16:35 GMT >| > So you think I should do a press release? >| [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >this is not a scam. If it's not a scam and your councillor can do nothing, then >it is letter time. Or make sure that the councillor is not in charge of the entire scam ......
It is a great idea for Philadelphia though. We have almost every other scam known to mankind already going on here. We have federal trials going on right now!
Joel
> What about the other people in the building? If it is a >centralized system which is part of your rent or condo fees, then only the >property management should be paying the fee. Got a local dental association >that might want to help out with everyone in your area? Joel M. Eichen - 18 Jan 2005 17:02 GMT >>| > So you think I should do a press release? >>| [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >>property management should be paying the fee. Got a local dental association >>that might want to help out with everyone in your area? Here is one for people who are bored.
Its a Sheriff's Sale of worthless properties ..........
Posted on Tue, Jan. 18, 2005 Jill Porter | Buyer beware, too late
Woman thought she bid on a house. Instead she paid a $1,700 down payment for a crumbling water tower.
DENISE Berry is standing in an auditorium filled with other dream-seekers. Her heart pounds as she bids again and again and then realizes: everyone who was competing against her has sat down.
Tears sting her eyes. She's done it.
Years of drug addiction, prison and homelessness can be put behind her now.
With her daughter's help, she's bought a house at sheriff's sale.
"I was crying, I was saying, 'Thank you, Jesus, I got me a home,' " Berry recalled of that moment last June 24. "I had to get out of the seat and run to the bathroom, because I was crying."
Berry paid the $1,700 down payment with money her daughter gave her. And the two of them drove to Overbrook to see the house again and marvel at their good fortune.
It was then that Berry learned the agonizing truth: She hadn't bought a house at all.
She'd bought a crumbling stone water tower behind a house that once belonged to a steam-heat company.
And the new life she envisioned for herself was still an elusive dream.
"I can't understand why they didn't let people know," said Berry, who I've identified by a pseudonym because she's embarrassed about her past - and by this latest setback.
"Why would a homeless person be getting a water tower?"
Naive and unsuspecting people often buy properties at sheriff's sale that aren't what they'd hoped. The house is uninhabitable, say, or they mistakenly bought an empty lot.
But this isn't just about the unforgiving world of sheriff's sales, where "buyer beware" is the motto - and there are no refunds.
This is worse.
This is about worthless property that should never be for sale to begin with.
This is about old water towers, drainage ditches, access roads and other unusable land that remain on city books and end up at sheriff's sale.
It's about the people who discover it's there - in this case, a law firm foreclosing on tax liens - and do nothing about it but recycle the properties, allowing other unwitting buyers to be duped.
These properties amount to a trap, however unintentional, that victimizes unsophisticated people who buy properties that no savvy investor would.
Fortunately, in Berry's case there's a chance of a happy ending.
But how many similar stories are out there?
This property is one of thousands foreclosed on as part of a complicated tax lien sale the city conducted seven years ago.
Berry, 58, thought she was buying a single home in Overbrook. The official description in the sheriff's notice of sale didn't identify it as a water tower.
The clue that Berry missed - as could anyone unfamiliar with the process - was the letter "R" after the street address.
That meant "rear."
Not that Berry didn't check things out.
Sure, she was a recovering addict who'd been in prison and had made a lifetime of mistakes, she said. But she was determined to do this right.
"I did some things in my life I'm not too proud of, and I was trying to get myself together. I know that the first thing you need is somewhere to stay."
"People were saying that with sheriff's sales, you can get a house for little or nothing and do a little work and fix it up," Berry said.
Even a dilapidated house she could fix up room by room would be better than the way she lives now - paying a friend rent for a place to sleep.
Her 31-year-old daughter has a corporate job out of state and she wanted to help her mother start a new life.
She's not wealthy, but she was willing to borrow from her retirement account to buy the house.
"She's a completely different person," the daughter said. "It was a chance to start over."
So Denise Berry traveled the city, looking at properties on the sheriff's sale list.
The house at 5860 Woodbine Ave. seemed to be all she hoped for: a big house on a decent block in seemingly good repair.
Still determined to avoid a mistake, Berry knocked on the door and a young woman answered.
"I asked her was this the address, and I told her it was a sheriff's sale," Berry said.
"I think I'm helping them out, letting them know the house is on the list."
Unfortunately, the wrong person answered Berry's knock that morning. If Gislaine Michel would have answered - the way she did when I knocked on a recent morning - she'd have told Berry the facts:
The house wasn't for sale. The eyesore in the back yard was.
The two-story stone tower has been there since the 1920s, when it was built by the Overbrook Steam Heating Co. The company, which provided water and steam heat to customers in Overbrook, went bankrupt in 1973.
The medieval-looking tower remained and is now so deteriorated that it's been declared dangerous by the Department of Licenses and Inspections. It would cost a fortune to demolish.
And that's what Berry had bought, as she and her daughter discovered to their shock immediately after the sheriff's sale.
City Consumer Advocate Lance Haver - no fan of sheriff's sales for inexperienced buyers to begin with - interceded on Berry's behalf.
"It's such a gut-wrenching thing to need a place to live," he said, "and, under the auspices of government, to be offered a bargain - only to find out this is not something that's appropriate."
Haver asked the law firm handling the foreclosures to refund Denise Berry's money.
But managing attorney Sharon Humble, of Linebarger, Goggan, Blair & Sampson - which is executing the foreclosures on behalf of Wachovia Bank, the trustee for the bond sales - replied with a three-page letter on July 2 that basically said: Not a chance.
Humble claimed that the sheriff's notice for the sale, which described the property as an "irregular lot" in the "rear" owned by the Overbrook Steam Heat Co., "should give any average citizen pause to believe that the subject property is not a residence and that research should be conducted before bidding on the property."
When I called the lawyer last week, at first she continued to insist there was nothing she was legally required to do, or could do, about the travesty.
"We have no duty to sell a property that's developable or habitable," she said. "It's simply foreclosing a tax lien and putting it up for sale for whatever purpose somebody might buy it for."
And moral responsibility? To help out a hapless buyer who got stuck with a property she can't use?
To spare other unwitting buyers from the same fate?
Because that's exactly what could happen. Berry forfeited her down payment, which means the water tower now can be reslated for sheriff's sale.
Eventually, Humble agreed that she could and - what do you know - would ask the city solicitor's office to declare the tax liens defective. "And if they will, then I can set aside the sales," she said.
And so city officials will meet this week with all the parties involved to to see what can be done, mayoral spokesman Dan Fee said.
Perhaps the story of Denise Berry's broken dream may have a happy ending after all.
But it's appalling that she had to endure this much heartbreak.
And it makes me wonder: who else has fallen victim?
ares - 20 Jan 2005 23:51 GMT Why do they have to write this in a way that they say the same thing over and over and over; get to the dang point already........ ares
>> Its a Sheriff's Sale of worthless properties .......... > [quoted text clipped - 189 lines] > > And it makes me wonder: who else has fallen victim? Alexander Vasserman DDS - 03 Feb 2005 03:47 GMT UPDATE
Monday I got a call from somebody at the CDA. The woman did not really have an answer for me but was trying to convince me that i needed this permit despite the fact that i told her that I am not dumping anything in the drain that is on the ban list. She was trying to say that the ultasonic liquid is part of the ban. I explained that only ultrasonic liquid and cold sterile solutions that contain Aldehydes or Gluteraldehyde are a no no. In my office we use an enzymatic biodegradable tablet for the ultrasonic solution. The stuff we wipe our cequiptment down in not gluteraldehyde and is not entering the sewer system. This woman then tried to explain that this is a difficult issue and that dentists are required to obtain this permit because they were classified as an industry requiring one. In other words even if all i do is consultations in my office if I have athe word dentist on my front door then I am required to get this permit because this is what was negociated. Which I think is a bunch of crap and is not constitutional. The Government is not supposed to decriminate based on classification "dentist". Either you are doing something that requires this permit and you get it or if you are not then you should not need it.
so the question here is I never called the CDA, how did she know I was having this problem? She also mentioned that there is another dentist in San Francisco in the same situation but she did not give me his name and when I asked for it she said he was in court over this. I do not believe that i am alone on this and that most people are just giving in to avoid the headache. As far as environment, having this permit does nothing for the environment since the permit allows you to dump gluteraldehyde and mercury particles. So I am very confused. Her you try to do something better for the environment by taking measures to prevent polution and you get penalized for it. At the same time there is an exemption if the discharge is 200 gallons/day or less which i fall under since I do not own the suction it is maintained by the building.
I would imagine a sushi restaurant will produce more free mercury into the toilet by it's customers then what is produced in a dental office. Soon every resident will be required to have an industrial waste disposal permit.
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 03 Feb 2005 04:16 GMT My theory on this.
Fact - City of Los Angeles implemented a sewage recycling program to convert raw sewage back to tap water in an effort to conserve water somewhere 2003-2004. Now they need $$$$ for this, the original plan was to come up with these permits as an excuse to generate these $$$$. Dentists were part of this list because people like Jan Drew misinform the general public about amalgam and dentists using mercury. In reality what has happened is that they did not realize that fewer and fewer dentitsts are using amalgam because of the new materials and patients wishes to have tooth coloured fillings. They are now in a panic to collect $$$ because dentists are not calling them to obtain these permits and hence the harrassment and the extortion. The ADA and CDA were approched somewhere in the negotiation process and because of the insurance companies wanting to minimize expenses on claims there is a general desire to keep amalgam since tooth coloured fillings cost more. The insurance industry does not want dentists to use composites because it would cost them much more. And although insurance companies can build this into the cost of the premiums there is pressure from the compitition to keep prices down for the employers. 4 composite fillings will eat up the $1000 annual max very easilly which means the employees would complain to the employers that their plan sucks and the employers will complain to the insurance companies or switch to a cheaper plan from a different insurance carrier. So the solution would be to force dentists to get the permit and pass the buck to the consumer or eat it because of the pressure from the insurance contracts. In the next revision of the ADA codes I would not be surprised to see a code for waste disposal permit. Once this code is released managed care insurance plans will add it to their fee schedule with a fee of $0 and dentists who are in contract with them will end up eating this cost because the contract will prevent them from passing the buck to the patient. This is a very dirty business. And as Joel would say it stinks too.
Jan - 03 Feb 2005 09:09 GMT >money from dentists. >From: "Alexander Vasserman DDS" purple543210@yahoo.ca
> Dentists were part >of this list because people like Jan Drew misinform the general public >about amalgam and dentists using mercury. It is the ADA and detists here who misinform.
http://www.floridalcv.org/FLCVEdFund/environmental_effect_of_dental_a.htm
Have you any concern about amalgam ruining the environment????
Naaa,
You would rather talk about fish.
Let me remind you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Source Average Human Daily Dose of MercuryDental Amalgam 3.0 - 17.0 ug/day (hgvapor)Fish and Seafood 2.3 ug/day (methylmercury)Other Food 0.3 ug/day (inorganichg)Air &Water Negligible traces(World Health Organization, Environmental Health Criteria 118: InorganicMercury, Geneva, 1991.)
http://www.lichtenberg.dk/mercury_vapour_in_the_oral_cavit.htm
Mercury from amalgams is the number one source in people.
"Mercury has been demonstrated as one possible cause of Alzheimer's Disease, and the World Health Organization says that people with amalgams get more mercury from their fillings than from all other sources combined.
http://es.epa.gov/ncer_abstracts/sbir/other/water/roberts.html
Cleanup of Dental Amalgam Waste To Meet Sewer Regulation
Awarding Agency: National Institutes of Health SBIR Contract Number: R43ES507886 Title: Cleanup of Dental Amalgam Waste To Meet Sewer Regulation Principal Investigator: Daryl L. Roberts Company Name: ADA Technologies, Inc. Honeywell Center, Suite 110 Englewood, CO 80112 Telephone Number: Business Representative: Project Period: Project Amount: $93,662 Research Category: Water Description:
In the United States and abroad, there has been a great deal of concern by the
public and health officials over the detrimental health effects caused by bioaccumulation of mercury in lakes and streams, resulting in regulatory limits for a variety of sources. Dental amalgam waste is attracting substantial attention as a major contributor to the mercury burden of municipal water treatment plants. In response, local authorities are implementing ordinances requiring dental offices to recover waste dental amalgam. Conventional technologies for removing waste amalgam from operatory discharge water have proven insufficient to meet stringent discharge limits (typically 50 pg/L). In
some cases, dental clinics have been forced to disconnect from the sewer systems and have incurred expensive hazardous waste disposal charges. ADA Technologies proposes to develop and test a novel system to reduce mercury below 50 pg/L that will be comprised of a patented novel sorbent for removing
dissolved mercury, membrane filtration technology for removing fine amalgam particles, and conventional technology for recovering the large amalgam particles. The ADA sorbent has demonstrated the ability to remove ionic and elemental mercury from wastewater to levels below 1 g/L. This system will be available to thousands of commercial dental offices.
http://www.toxicteeth.org/pressRoom_releases_031903_polluters.cfm
THE NATION Dentists Biggest Mercury Polluters, New Study Finds Health: The metal is widely used in fillings and ends up in the nation's waste
water.
By ELIZABETH SHOGREN TIMES STAFF WRITER June 6, 2002 WASHINGTON - Coal-fired power plants are notorious for being the biggest source of mercury pollution in the air. But now, new attention is being directed at another, much less known source of mercury contamination in water--dentists. A new report shows that dentists are
the largest single source of mercury pollution in waste water funneled into the nation's treatment plants. Mercury is a potent toxin that can damage the human
brain, spinal cord, kidney and liver, and is especially dangerous for unborn children. While many other sources of mercury pollution have drastically cut their use of the heavy metal, dentists continue to use it widely in fillings. "Pretty much all the mercury they're using gets released into the environment.
Why aren't they doing more to reduce that use?" said Michael Bender, director of the Mercury Policy Project, a foundation-funded group that was one of the authors of the study. Power plants emit mercury into the air and it falls into
streams and rivers. Many dentists flush it down their drains and it goes directly into waste-water treatment plants, which do not effectively filter it
from the water. In a statement responding to the report, the American Dental Assn. said it was aware that some particles from fillings end up in waste water, and it urges dentists to follow proper procedures for handling and recycling the composite used for fillings, which they refer to as "amalgam." But the association argued that the mercury from their fillings remains in a form that is not harmful to humans. "However, a 1996 study found that when amalgam particles were subjected to simulated waste-water treatment processes,
no soluble mercury was detected, even at a concentration of 1 part per billion," according to the statement. The group stressed that it was currently
implementing a new plan to address the problem. The new report's authors said that dentists, through voluntary or mandatory measures, should trap their waste mercury before it flows into plumbing fixtures that have been contaminated with mercury for years. The report referred to a 2001 study by the Assn. of Metropolitan Sewerage Agencies that evaluated seven major municipal waste-water treatment plants and determined that dental uses were "by far" the greatest contributors to the mercury reaching their facilities. They were responsible for 40% of the load, three times more than the next largest contributor. Several other countries regulate releases of dental mercury. In Canada, a new standard requires dentists to trap the pieces of filling before they go down the drain. The goal is to reduce releases by 95% by 2005. In May, the New Hampshire Legislature became the first in the nation to pass legislation governing disposal methods for dental mercury. The California Assembly considered a measure to phase out the use of mercury in fillings but did not adopt it. The report suggests that mercury in dentistry has become the exception while other major users of mercury have changed their practices. In 1985 dental facilities used 3% of all the mercury used nationwide. Last year, although dentists used less mercury, their use accounted for 20% of all uses. Only two other industries--wiring devices and switches and chloralkali--used more. Gina Solomon, a physician who focuses on the health effects of mercury for the Natural Resources Defense Council, said that there was still controversy about whether the fillings put dental patients at risk. And she stressed that those who have such fillings should not get them removed, because taking them out heightens the chance of exposure. However, she said the science is clear that the mercury that goes down the drain can end up in the food chain. "There is scientific consensus that mercury that ends up in the waste water and water bodies will accumulate in the fish and pose a direct human health problem to people who eat the fish; that is uncontroversial and is something that can be fixed,"
http://www.toxicteeth.org/pressRoom_releases_031903_polluters.cfm
THE NATION Dentists Biggest Mercury Polluters, New Study Finds Health: The metal is widely used in fillings and ends up in the nation's waste water.
By ELIZABETH SHOGREN TIMES STAFF WRITER June 6, 2002 WASHINGTON - Coal-fired power plants are notorious for being the biggest source of mercury pollution in the air. But now, new attention is being directed at another, much less known source of mercury contamination in water--dentists. A new report shows that dentists are the largest single source of mercury pollution in waste water funneled into the nation's treatment plants. Mercury is a potent toxin that can damage the human brain, spinal cord, kidney and liver, and is especially dangerous for unborn children. While many other sources of mercury pollution have drastically cut their use of the heavy metal, dentists continue to use it widely in fillings. "Pretty much all the mercury they're using gets released into the environment. Why aren't they doing more to reduce that use?" said Michael Bender, director of the Mercury Policy Project, a foundation-funded group that was one of the authors of the study. Power plants emit mercury into the air and it falls into streams and rivers. Many dentists flush it down their drains and it goes directly into waste-water treatment plants, which do not effectively filter it from the water. In a statement responding to the report, the American Dental Assn. said it was aware that some particles from fillings end up in waste water, and it urges dentists to follow proper procedures for handling and recycling the composite used for fillings, which they refer to as "amalgam." But the association argued that the mercury from their fillings remains in a form that is not harmful to humans. "However, a 1996 study found that when amalgam particles were subjected to simulated waste-water treatment processes, no soluble mercury was detected, even at a concentration of 1 part per billion," according to the statement. The group stressed that it was currently implementing a new plan to address the problem. The new report's authors said that dentists, through voluntary or mandatory measures, should trap their waste mercury before it flows into plumbing fixtures that have been contaminated with mercury for years. The report referred to a 2001 study by the Assn. of Metropolitan Sewerage Agencies that evaluated seven major municipal waste-water treatment plants and determined that dental uses were "by far" the greatest contributors to the mercury reaching their facilities. They were responsible for 40% of the load, three times more than the next largest contributor. Several other countries regulate releases of dental mercury. In Canada, a new standard requires dentists to trap the pieces of filling before they go down the drain. The goal is to reduce releases by 95% by 2005. In May, the New Hampshire Legislature became the first in the nation to pass legislation governing disposal methods for dental mercury. The California Assembly considered a measure to phase out the use of mercury in fillings but did not adopt it. The report suggests that mercury in dentistry has become the exception while other major users of mercury have changed their practices. In 1985 dental facilities used 3% of all the mercury used nationwide. Last year, although dentists used less mercury, their use accounted for 20% of all uses. Only two other industries--wiring devices and switches and chloralkali--used more. Gina Solomon, a physician who focuses on the health effects of mercury for the Natural Resources Defense Council, said that there was still controversy about whether the fillings put dental patients at risk. And she stressed that those who have such fillings should not get them removed, because taking them out heightens the chance of exposure. However, she said the science is clear that the mercury that goes down the drain can end up in the food chain. "There is scientific consensus that mercury that ends up in the waste water and water bodies will accumulate in the fish and pose a direct human health problem to people who eat the fish; that is uncontroversial and is something that can be fixed," Solomon said. If you want other stories on this topic, search the Archives at www.latimes.com/archive. For information about reprinting this article, go to www.lats.com/rights. Copyright 2002 Los Angeles Times
http://www.epa.gov/epr/products/mintern.html
Mercury in Products
International Initiatives
Canada
Under its Canada Wide Standards (CWS) program, Canada has selected a number of products and industry sectors for targeted mercury reduction. Products covered
by the CWS for Mercury include mercury-containing lamps and dental amalgams.
http://www.solmetex.com
SolmeteX is a developer and manufacturer of products and systems that perform targeted, upstream heavy-metal binding and recovery.
Our patent-pending separation technology allows clients to preempt the need for costly cleanups and avoid expensive litigation.
SolmeteX clients include manufacturing and processing plants, biopharmaceutical companies, municipalities, environmental consulting firms as well as dental practices ranging from US Navy and teaching hospital clinics to one - chair offices.
http://es.epa.gov/ncer_abstracts/sbir/other/water/roberts.html
Cleanup of Dental Amalgam Waste To Meet Sewer Regulation
Awarding Agency: National Institutes of Health SBIR Contract Number: R43ES507886 Title: Cleanup of Dental Amalgam Waste To Meet Sewer Regulation Principal Investigator: Daryl L. Roberts Company Name: ADA Technologies, Inc. Honeywell Center, Suite 110 Englewood, CO 80112 Telephone Number: Business Representative: Project Period: Project Amount: $93,662 Research Category: Water Description:
In the United States and abroad, there has been a great deal of concern by the
public and health officials over the detrimental health effects caused by bioaccumulation of mercury in lakes and streams, resulting in regulatory limits for a variety of sources. Dental amalgam waste is attracting substantial attention as a major contributor to the mercury burden of municipal water treatment plants. In response, local authorities are implementing ordinances requiring dental offices to recover waste dental amalgam. Conventional technologies for removing waste amalgam from operatory discharge water have proven insufficient to meet stringent discharge limits (typically 50 pg/L). In
some cases, dental clinics have been forced to disconnect from the sewer systems and have incurred expensive hazardous waste disposal charges. ADA Technologies proposes to develop and test a novel system to reduce mercury below 50 pg/L that will be comprised of a patented novel sorbent for removing dissolved mercury, membrane filtration technology for removing fine amalgam particles, and conventional technology for recovering the large amalgam particles. The ADA sorbent has demonstrated the ability to remove ionic and elemental mercury from wastewater to levels below 1 g/L. This system will be available to thousands of commercial dental offices.
Joel M. Eichen - 03 Feb 2005 12:15 GMT >>money from dentists. >>From: "Alexander Vasserman DDS" purple543210@yahoo.ca [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >It is the ADA and detists here who misinform. When Jan eats sushi she imitates the bear in the woods to avoid discharging into the sewer system.
>http://www.floridalcv.org/FLCVEdFund/environmental_effect_of_dental_a.htm > >Have you any concern about amalgam ruining the environment???? W_B - 03 Feb 2005 15:29 GMT >When Jan eats sushi she imitates the bear in the woods to avoid >discharging into the sewer system. She goes to see the pope ? --
W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Joel M. Eichen - 03 Feb 2005 21:08 GMT >>When Jan eats sushi she imitates the bear in the woods to avoid >>discharging into the sewer system. > >She goes to see the pope ? Yup, and prays with the bear too ,,,,,,, you remember the bear is Catholic ......
MC60614 - 06 Feb 2005 05:14 GMT Reminds me of Elizabeth Taylor's Parfume which I called I Do Toilets...MC
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 03 Feb 2005 16:07 GMT > >money from dentists. > >From: "Alexander Vasserman DDS" purple543210@yahoo.ca [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > It is the ADA and detists here who misinform. http://www.floridalcv.org/FLCVEdFund/environmental_effect_of_dental_a.htm
> Have you any concern about amalgam ruining the environment???? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > (hgvapor)Fish and Seafood 2.3 ug/day > (methylmercury)Other Food 0.3
> ug/day (inorganichg)Air &Water
> Negligible traces(World Health Organization, Environmental Health Criteria > 118: > InorganicMercury, Geneva, 1991.) Even if those numbers were true or relevant which they are not , People do not ingest amalgam for breakfest/lunch/dinner. I do not put it in so they do not get their average daily dose from me. Also the question here is not the quantity in the mouths but what is not absorbed and goes out the other end. According to your logic anyone with amalgam in their mouth needs to obtain an industrial waste disposal permit.
Joel M. Eichen - 03 Feb 2005 21:09 GMT >> >money from dentists. >> >From: "Alexander Vasserman DDS" purple543210@yahoo.ca [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >Also the question here is not the quantity in the mouths but what is >not absorbed and goes out the other end. Don't start with that, you know what Jan recommends, don't you?
Joel
According to your logic anyone
>with amalgam in their mouth needs to obtain an industrial waste >disposal permit. clintonz@prodigy.net - 03 Feb 2005 23:48 GMT > Even if those numbers were true or relevant which they are not , People Don't post that garbage about fish being mehtyl. The ADA doesn't even STUDY the maximum methyl uptake from amalgam. considering that I'm sure the toxic load due to some amalgam is 100-1000 times greater than 17 ug
WHAT are the RANGES for mehtyl and elemental Hg expoure from amalgam. WHAT are the upper and lower bounds. How can you have read this list for a year and say that.Your either full of it or retarded.
You people don't give a living darn about if amalgam harms people do you. As long as your business expenses don't go any higher and no one subpeona's you to testify about it or throws you in jail. To heck with you.
> do not ingest amalgam for breakfest/lunch/dinner. I do not put Elememtal Hg vapor is probably much greater than 17 ug per day in many cases and is inhaled every second of every day.
it in so
> they do not get their average daily dose from me. You are part of an organization which STill UNEQUIVACOLY endorses it's use and openly lies to the media about it's stability and other properties.
> Also the question here is not the quantity in the mouths but what is > not absorbed and goes out the other end. Apparently most of what you read comes in one end and goes out the other.
According to your logic anyone
> with amalgam in their mouth needs to obtain an industrial waste > disposal permit. Is amalgam the largest source of Hg in the human population?
Joel M. Eichen - 04 Feb 2005 00:28 GMT >Don't post that garbage about fish being mehtyl Fish is not mehtyl although the outside looks mehtyllic sometimes in strong sunshine.
clintonz@prodigy.net - 03 Feb 2005 23:49 GMT > Even if those numbers were true or relevant which they are not , People Don't post that garbage about fish being mehtyl. The ADA doesn't even STUDY the maximum methyl uptake from amalgam. considering that I'm sure the toxic load due to some amalgam is 100-1000 times greater than 17 ug
WHAT are the RANGES for mehtyl and elemental Hg expoure from amalgam. WHAT are the upper and lower bounds. How can you have read this list for a year and say that.Your either full of it or retarded.
You people don't give a living darn about if amalgam harms people do you. As long as your business expenses don't go any higher and no one subpeona's you to testify about it or throws you in jail. To heck with you.
> do not ingest amalgam for breakfest/lunch/dinner. I do not put Elememtal Hg vapor is probably much greater than 17 ug per day in many cases and is inhaled every second of every day.
it in so
> they do not get their average daily dose from me. You are part of an organization which STill UNEQUIVACOLY endorses it's use and openly lies to the media about it's stability and other properties.
> Also the question here is not the quantity in the mouths but what is > not absorbed and goes out the other end. Apparently most of what you read comes in one end and goes out the other.
According to your logic anyone
> with amalgam in their mouth needs to obtain an industrial waste > disposal permit. Is amalgam the largest source of Hg in the human population?
MC60614 - 03 Feb 2005 23:20 GMT Thanks for the reminder, I have Salmon awaiting me. MC
Joel M. Eichen - 04 Feb 2005 00:29 GMT >Thanks for the reminder, I have Salmon awaiting me. MC Would that be Mr. Rushdie?
Joel M. Eichen - 03 Feb 2005 12:14 GMT >Fact - City of Los Angeles implemented a sewage recycling program to >convert raw sewage back to tap water in an effort to conserve water >somewhere 2003-2004. >Now they need $$$$ for this, Yup, that is the philosophy of every governmental unit in this country.
Does your water bill pay for only water and not pay for patronage? Doubtful.
Joel
R. - 06 Feb 2005 16:13 GMT >In reality what has happened is that they did not realize that fewer >and fewer dentitsts are using amalgam because of the new materials and >patients wishes to have tooth coloured fillings. You take them out, even if you don't install them.
> They are now in a >panic to collect $$$ because dentists are not calling them to obtain >these permits and hence the harrassment and the extortion. harrassment, extortion??
clintonz@prodigy.net - 03 Feb 2005 10:04 GMT .
> I would imagine a sushi restaurant will produce more free mercury into > the toilet by it's customers then what is produced in a dental office. > Soon every resident will be required to have an industrial waste > disposal permit. Imagine is a good word.
Vaughn Simon - 03 Feb 2005 12:28 GMT > so the question here is I never called the CDA, how did she know I was > having this problem? She also mentioned that there is another dentist > in San Francisco in the same situation but she did not give me his name > and when I asked for it she said he was in court over this. .
Does California have a Public Information "Sunshine" law? If so, getting whatever information you demand (or even direct access to their files) is a simple process...and will drive them crazy!
Vaughn
CWatters - 03 Feb 2005 21:35 GMT > I am required to get this permit because this is what > was negociated. Did you agree to a third party negotiating on your behalf? Perhaps through membership of an organisation like a union or licensing authority? If not how can a third party commit you to this? They can't unless you either a) agreed or b) there is a law that give this third party legal rights to negotiate on your behalf.
By the way my brother says you owe me $100. He thinks you need better quality paper clips and we agreed a good deal for you. I'll send a woman round to collect the money later this week. OK?
StovePipe - 05 Feb 2005 18:15 GMT > The woman did not really have an answer for me but was trying to > convince me that i needed this permit despite the fact that i told her [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > we wipe our cequiptment down in not gluteraldehyde and is not entering > the sewer system. Al: What are you using to wipe down your keyboard? SP
 Signature Not a real Addy, yet
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 06 Feb 2005 03:33 GMT We try not to touch the keyboard with the gloves or it's the pinky finger which was not in the mouth, but when we do we use a tuburcullocidal spray can't remember the name off hand. I usually clean the keyboard myself because it's my laptop that I take home with me. I spay on a guaze and then wipe. I'm thinking about getting those peel away sticky plastic wrappers.
StovePipe - 06 Feb 2005 08:50 GMT > We try not to touch the keyboard with the gloves or it's the pinky > finger which was not in the mouth, but when we do we use a > tuburcullocidal spray can't remember the name off hand. I usually clean > the keyboard myself because it's my laptop that I take home with me. I > spay on a guaze and then wipe. I'm thinking about getting those peel > away sticky plastic wrappers. That's what DrS uses. I think you'll find you make less errors. Cheers SP
 Signature Not a real Addy, yet
Roy Brown - 06 Feb 2005 08:54 GMT | > We try not to touch the keyboard with the gloves or it's the pinky | > finger which was not in the mouth, but when we do we use a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | Cheers | SP What about Saran Wrap as a barrier?
W_B - 07 Feb 2005 00:56 GMT >| > We try not to touch the keyboard with the gloves or it's the pinky >| > finger which was not in the mouth, but when we do we use a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >What about Saran Wrap as a barrier? Works great when tightly wrapped around the head.
-- W_B
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE
StovePipe - 07 Feb 2005 02:36 GMT > >| That's what DrS uses. I think you'll find you make less errors. > >| Cheers [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > -- > W_B ..... ???? !... OK, lessee... <rrrriiittt> <tear> <crinkle> <sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof> <sfloof>.... <plock!>....
<Rummhhhmm!>
<mmmfftmmf!> <lmdfmnnpprm??> <umm!!!> <Umm!> <UUMMM!!!> <UUURRRRMMMMHHH!> <boom!> <shlik!> <shlik!> <shlik!> <babballmaddmn...!>
<plork!> <plork!!> <PLORK!!> <PLORK!!>
<Ummmhhmmmrmm!...> <snif!> <snif!> <snif!> <scritch...> <crink..> <tttiiirrrr> <crinkle...> <Ufffmfmmhhrmmf-blllaatt!!> ....'s a real good thing I had a BIC pen handy! <whew!>... I hadda shove the BIC pen up my nostrils... the pen with a thousand and one uses! <honk!> <snif> <brawahwahwah!!!> <snif>
... So tell me... <snif> <brawahwahwah!!!>
...<hack!> <hork...> <snif>
.... Who won the football game? <snifff..>
...................... ;-)
 Signature Not a real Addy, yet
MC60614 - 08 Feb 2005 08:50 GMT Only if it tightly encompasses the nose and mouth..MC
StovePipe - 07 Feb 2005 02:36 GMT > | That's what DrS uses. I think you'll find you make less errors. > | Cheers > | SP > > What about Saran Wrap as a barrier? ...'s OK, I guess... I'd like to see BIG BILL get off his a.s and make a sterilizable key board... would be good for the Mad Dogs in the operating rooms as well... JMO SP
 Signature Not a real Addy, yet
Dr Steve - 07 Feb 2005 19:45 GMT There is a flat, roll-up keyboard available with PS-2 cable that can be immersed in fluids. I would have to look it up again. I think it is easier to just get a vinyl cover for it.
www.viziflex.com
 Signature ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA ....................................................
This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ......................
> >> | That's what DrS uses. I think you'll find you make less errors. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > JMO > SP Roy Brown - 08 Feb 2005 00:28 GMT One of these? http://www.ergopro.com/index.cfm?obj=prodDetails&pID=381 http://www.adesso.com/products.asp?categoryid=7&subcatid=16
 Signature Roy rem NADA to reply
| There is a flat, roll-up keyboard available with PS-2 cable that can be | immersed in fluids. I would have to look it up again. I think it is easier [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] | > JMO | > SP Dr. Steve - 08 Feb 2005 02:39 GMT >One of these? >http://www.ergopro.com/index.cfm?obj=prodDetails&pID=381 >http://www.adesso.com/products.asp?categoryid=7&subcatid=16 Yes .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA
I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting.
Dr. Steve - 06 Feb 2005 18:21 GMT >> We try not to touch the keyboard with the gloves or it's the pinky >> finger which was not in the mouth, but when we do we use a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Cheers >SP No Lap-Top in treatment rooms. Hard wired network with Desktop PC's. Keyboards are sealed under a clear vinyl cover.
.. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA
I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting.
W_B - 07 Feb 2005 00:55 GMT >> We try not to touch the keyboard with the gloves or it's the pinky >> finger which was not in the mouth, but when we do we use a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Cheers >SP Dr. Suess ?
-- W_B
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE
StovePipe - 07 Feb 2005 02:36 GMT > >That's what DrS uses. I think you'll find you make less errors. > >Cheers [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > -- > W_B .... I do not like them on a train I do not like them on a plane I do not like them on a boat I do not like them on a float I do not like Green Eggs and Ham I do not like them, Sam-I-Am....
.... great literature...
 Signature Not a real Addy, yet
Sdores - 07 Feb 2005 13:07 GMT Love your humor! UM MOM Susan
>> >That's what DrS uses. I think you'll find you make less errors. >> >Cheers [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > .... great literature... Joel M. Eichen - 06 Feb 2005 13:23 GMT >We try not to touch the keyboard with the gloves or it's the pinky >finger which was not in the mouth, but when we do we use a >tuburcullocidal spray can't remember the name off hand. I usually clean >the keyboard myself because it's my laptop that I take home with me. I >spay on a guaze and then wipe. I'm thinking about getting those peel >away sticky plastic wrappers. Some of my best posts were when I was spraying on the gauze, wiping, and then realizing I was still connected to sci.med.dentistry.
So what did I do next?
I hit SEND.
Joel
Dr. Steve - 06 Feb 2005 18:17 GMT >We try not to touch the keyboard with the gloves or it's the pinky >finger which was not in the mouth, but when we do we use a >tuburcullocidal spray can't remember the name off hand. I usually clean >the keyboard myself because it's my laptop that I take home with me. I >spay on a guaze and then wipe. I'm thinking about getting those peel >away sticky plastic wrappers. A laptop in the treatment room ? get with the program .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA
I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting.
R. - 06 Feb 2005 16:13 GMT >UPDATE
>that dentists are required to obtain this permit because they were >classified as an industry requiring one. Yes. so?
> In other words even if all i >do is consultations in my office if I have athe word dentist on my [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >this permit and you get it or if you are not then you should not need >it. oh yeah, unconstitional heh discrimination hhhaaaa.
>so the question here is I never called the CDA, how did she know I was >having this problem? Public utilites and cda together getting dentists to comply?
> She also mentioned that there is another dentist >in San Francisco in the same situation but she did not give me his name [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >environment since the permit allows you to dump gluteraldehyde and >mercury particles. So I am very confused. Is this simply a permit for a seperator device on the drain? IF SO, bfd, just do it. What's the big deal? bfd!
>Here you try to do something better for the environment by taking >measures to prevent polution and you get penalized for it.
>At the same time there is an exemption if the discharge is 200 >gallons/day or less which i fall under since I do not own the suction >it is maintained by the building. Alexander Vasserman DDS - 07 Feb 2005 01:43 GMT mercury particles. So I am very confused.
> Is this simply a permit for a seperator device on the drain? > IF SO, bfd, just do it. What's the big deal? bfd! The permit is for allowing you to dump mercury, gluteraldehyde, alcohol, precious metals, acetone,plus other chemicals on the list in any form or small quantities into the drain has nothing to do with separators. Fixer and developer still need to be picked up.
The BFD is I am not dumping these substances and so I should not be threatened with $1000/day/violation fines and 6 months jail time for not getting a permit I do not need. All this because CDA has negociated some deal on behalf of all dentists including those who are not even members of their organization and those who are not even contributing waste into the sewage system such as oral surgeons,perio surgeons, orthodontists, and other dentists like myself who do not have amalgam and mercury in the office.
R. - 07 Feb 2005 19:52 GMT >mercury particles. So I am very confused. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >threatened with $1000/day/violation fines and 6 months jail time for >not getting a permit I do not need. If the permit REALLY does not apply to you, then apply for an exemption from whatever gov entity issues the permit. Talk to the right person, get the forms, and fill out every form exactly how they tell you to, all very friendly and co-operating. Invite someone over to inspect the place. But you better be REALLY SURE if you do that!
>All this because CDA has negociated >some deal on behalf of all dentists including those who are not even >members of their organization and those who are not even contributing >waste into the sewage system such as oral surgeons,perio surgeons, >orthodontists, and other dentists like myself who do not have amalgam >and mercury in the office. Don't you ever remove amalgam fillings? I cannot imagine a situation in a dental office where amalgam fillings are never removed. Don't cosmetic dentists ever grind out amalgam fillings?
In SF, public utilities and cda together required the seperator that costs $1,000 with periodic disposal of the metals that are trapped. So its a waste disposal permit. The fine for not doing it is $10,000. Maybe what you are talking about is completely different. It could be.
S.F. moves to stop mercury in fillings from heading for sewage treatment plants http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/30/MNGKT7EC461.DTL
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 08 Feb 2005 00:33 GMT In the odd situation that I encounter amalgam (very rare in my practice), I have the spit plus waste picked up. I have a portable suction not connected to the drain.
There are no forms for applying for exemption like I said it's extortion what is so hard to understand. Imagine this analogy, all persons owning x-ray equiptment need a permit from Department Health and Human Services. You on the other hand do not own an x-ray machine and a representative from this department accuses you of breaking the law and threatens you obtain this permit or there are big fines and jail time. How would you feel??? What form do you want to look for for exemptions or ethically should you??? On the waste application there is a fee to be submitted with the application of $350 and a box state number of gallons of forbiden waste disposed in the drain. In my case that number is zero but I still have to pay the fee and there is no box to get out it becomes an annual thing "we collect your money and you are a proud owner of a permit".
> >mercury particles. So I am very confused. > >> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > S.F. moves to stop mercury in fillings from heading for sewage > treatment plants http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/30/MNGKT7EC461.DTL
Jan - 08 Feb 2005 02:40 GMT >Subject: Re: Government extorting money from dentists. >From: "Alexander Vasserman DDS" purple543210@yahoo.ca [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >practice), I have the spit plus waste picked up. I have a portable >suction not connected to the drain Has it ever entered your mind that the mercury coming from the mouth is toxic?
Had the ADA been truthful years ago, we wouldnt have this problem.
If the dentists would have refused to use amalgam as in the beginning, we wouldn't have this problem.
If amalgams were banned, the problem would not exist.
Since most dentists prefer to remain in denial, this is the result.
http://www.dcdental.org/amalgam.html
http://www.nyas.org/programs/harbor_rec.asp
I haven't followed this theat much and still haven't received an e-mail from one who would know, however I will also say, some inspectors harass because they have an authority problem.
Jan
clintonz@prodigy.net - 08 Feb 2005 03:28 GMT > >Subject: Re: Government extorting money from dentists. > >From: "Alexander Vasserman DDS" purple543210@yahoo.ca [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >practice), I have the spit plus waste picked up. I have a portable > >suction not connected to the drain Imagine this analogy. A state decides that the air is being polluted by car drivers in general. To "compensate" for this ALL drivers are charged a $300 "smog impact" fee if their car is made before a certain year or they come from out of state etc, even if their car meets smog requirments. Unfair?
I can't blame Alex personally for the use/impact of amalgam, being not a whole lot older than me, he was probably still a kid himself when I had my first amalgams placed, but i agree that those who have used amalgam throughout their careers should pay a health/environment "impact fee".
Jan - 08 Feb 2005 04:23 GMT >Subject: Re: Government extorting money from dentists. >From: clintonz@prodigy.net [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >that those who have used amalgam throughout their careers >should pay a health/environment "impact fee". Correct, and those dentists wh refuse tiobelieve studies, acknowledge the effects of vapors and improvements are in effect extorting some people's health.
Jan
Joel M. Eichen - 08 Feb 2005 11:41 GMT >>Subject: Re: Government extorting money from dentists. >>From: "Alexander Vasserman DDS" purple543210@yahoo.ca [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Has it ever entered your mind that the mercury coming from the mouth is toxic? As we say, in toxicology, the DOSE is the poison!
Joel
Jan is poison!
>Had the ADA been truthful years ago, we wouldnt have this problem. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Jan MC60614 - 08 Feb 2005 08:43 GMT Just remember, computers are letting off radiation..MC
Joel M. Eichen - 08 Feb 2005 11:42 GMT >Just remember, computers are letting off radiation..MC Worse, cows are destroying the ozone layer.
Jan - 08 Feb 2005 18:15 GMT >Subject: Re: Government extorting money from dentists. >From: mc60614@aol.com (MC60614) >Date: 2/8/2005 12:43 AM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <20050208034342.08434.00000547@mb-m06.aol.com> > >Just remember, computers are letting off radiation..MC Don't forget, mercury from amalgams are the number one source of mercury in people.
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 09 Feb 2005 22:43 GMT R. - 08 Feb 2005 17:56 GMT >In the odd situation that I encounter amalgam (very rare in my >practice), I have the spit plus waste picked up. I have a portable >suction not connected to the drain. okay then, you already have it covered.
>There are no forms for applying for exemption like I said it's >extortion what is so hard to understand. Imagine this analogy, all [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >jail time. How would you feel??? What form do you want to look >for for exemptions or ethically should you??? I would find the person in charge, but that's just me.
>On the waste application there is a fee to be submitted with the >application of $350 and a box state number of gallons of forbiden waste >disposed in the drain. In my case that number is zero but I still have >to pay the fee and there is no box to get out it becomes an annual >thing "we collect your money and you are a proud owner of a permit". Well, seems this permit does not apply to you then. $350/yr is not so steep...regardless of how much,how often, probably could be straightened out if you find the right beaurocrat at LA County or whatever the gov agency is...would take some (friendly, professional, courteous) time on the phone being shuffled around to a number of different people before you find the right person to sort this out, give you an exemption, or whatever way they can correct the situation for you.
>> >mercury particles. So I am very confused. >> >> [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >> >http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/30/MNGKT7EC461.DTL Alexander Vasserman DDS - 09 Feb 2005 22:49 GMT Interesting enought the city had the CDA call me and after our conversation I was told the CDA will find some more info and email it to me. I have not heard from them. The problem here is they are trying to place all dentists in a group requiring this permit regardless of what is done in each individual dental office. If this permit has to do with the licence to practice dentistry that's one thing and perhaps a portion of those fees should be allocated to this cause but as it stands that is not the case.
R. - 10 Feb 2005 17:10 GMT >Interesting enought the city had the CDA call me and after our >conversation I was told the CDA will find some more info and email it >to me. I have not heard from them. >The problem here is they are trying to place all dentists in a group >requiring this permit regardless of what is done in each individual >dental office. They can do it however they want... disposal, monitoring hazardous substances you all deal with are regulated by state, local law. Even if you generate less than the dentist down the road. They want to monitor it, and they can.
>If this permit has to do with the licence to practice >dentistry that's one thing and perhaps a portion of those fees should >be allocated to this cause but as it stands that is not the case. You might not like how it stands now, but who cares? Its THE LAW. ;0
R. - 08 Feb 2005 20:52 GMT >In the odd situation that I encounter amalgam (very rare in my >practice), I have the spit plus waste picked up. I have a portable >suction not connected to the drain. ...
>On the waste application there is a fee to be submitted with the >application of $350 and a box state number of gallons of forbiden waste >disposed in the drain. In my case that number is zero but I still have >to pay the fee and there is no box to get out it becomes an annual >thing "we collect your money and you are a proud owner of a permit". On second thought, it's possible the permit is required regardless where the waste is being disposed of, even if it is not going into the public sewage system. if this is the case, don't worry about it, just enjoy the beautiful county beaches, parks, etc, every now and then.
>> >mercury particles. So I am very confused. >> >> [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >> >http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/30/MNGKT7EC461.DTL Alexander Vasserman DDS - 09 Feb 2005 22:41 GMT That is not the case. The psychaitrist next door is not being forced to get this permit.
> >In the odd situation that I encounter amalgam (very rare in my > >practice), I have the spit plus waste picked up. I have a portable [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > >http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/30/MNGKT7EC461.DTL R. - 10 Feb 2005 17:11 GMT >That is not the case. >The psychaitrist next door is not being forced to get this permit. oh please. The psychiatrist does not have hazardous waste picked up from his office. Only "toxic emotions" heh.
>> >In the odd situation that I encounter amalgam (very rare in my >> >practice), I have the spit plus waste picked up. I have a portable [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] >> >>http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/30/MNGKT7EC461.DTL Alexander Vasserman DDS - 11 Feb 2005 01:17 GMT The point here is I am not generating any just like the psychiatrist across the hall from me. less than anyone else and none are 2 different things.
> >That is not the case. > >The psychaitrist next door is not being forced to get this permit. [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > >>http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/30/MNGKT7EC461.DTL R. - 11 Feb 2005 17:17 GMT okay dude, like - *whatever*. good luck with that.
>The point here is I am not generating any just like the psychiatrist >across the hall from me. [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] >> >>>http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/30/MNGKT7EC461.DTL Alexander Vasserman DDS - 08 Feb 2005 00:40 GMT Don't you ever remove amalgam fillings? I cannot imagine a situation in a dental office where amalgam fillings are never removed. Don't cosmetic dentists ever grind out amalgam fillings?
cosmetic dentists grind the tooth around the fillings. And then the patient gets to take is home and give it to the tooth fairy.
Just kidding. :)
R. - 08 Feb 2005 17:57 GMT >Don't you ever remove amalgam fillings? I cannot imagine a situation >in a dental office where amalgam fillings are never removed. Don't [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Just kidding. :) lol.
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 18 Jan 2005 18:17 GMT The other people got hit with the notices as well in fact there were 2 people with their government id's that showed up.
this was later followed by the fine notice which was sent by certified mail ie I had to sign that I recieved it.
The medical buildings can be classified as 2 types.
1 one central suction for the whole bulding going into one public waste drain
2 each suite having a suction pump and compressor which eventually goes into the public drain.
My building is that of type 1 plus I have an independent portable suction unit not connected to the city.
Although when I signed the lease the selling point was that I did not need to have my own suction compressor nor deal with its maintenance or its waste that was part of my rent and it was alwaYS TAKEN CARE OF BY THE BUILDING. The Government wants every business in that building to have a permit regardless of who owns and maintains the vacuum. They are saying that it is not the building that needs the permit thaty individual dentists need to have it. Basicly the only way they new i existed was they sent their people up and down business streets and if they encountered a DDS or DMD they got the notice regardless of what is actually done there.
I got out of the ADA and CDA since I did not get any results or the slightest bit of action from them in the past. I was a member for 14 years paid my dues and got nothing worth while out of it. As far as I'm concerned they are part of the reason I'm in this mess because they helped to convince the city that every DDS/DMD deals with amalgam including all the specialists, hygiene only practices as well. You know when I applied for my business licence the government was trying to convince me that I needed a retail licence and I should be charging my patients sales tax on the crowns, fillings etc.... I had to fight with them to get my money back after I realized what this extra licence was for.
> | > So you think I should do a press release? > | [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > property management should be paying the fee. Got a local dental association > that might want to help out with everyone in your area? StovePipe - 19 Jan 2005 05:24 GMT > I got out of the ADA and CDA since I did not get any results or the > slightest bit of action from them in the past. I was a member for 14 > years paid my dues and got nothing worth while out of it. As far as I'm > concerned they are part of the reason I'm in this mess because they > helped to convince the city that every DDS/DMD deals with amalgam > including all the specialists, hygiene only practices as well. I also think that your LOCAL dental association is the best bet to fight this thing. If it goes to lawyers, etc, then I'd want them to represent the totality of the local profession, and that way you have some clout, perhaps a bit of newsworthiness, and you spread the fees out. Just an idea.. SP
 Signature Not a real Addy, yet
W_B - 19 Jan 2005 20:19 GMT >So you think I should do a press release? Why not. --
W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
ares - 20 Jan 2005 23:46 GMT Wouldn't it be a better idea to call someone in the ADA or local dental associations and see what they're saying first? What are your peers saying about it? Are they being harassed too? It's not a scam then? ares
> So you think I should do a press release? Joel M. Eichen - 18 Jan 2005 17:21 GMT >The City of Los Angeles has resorted to extortion Well they extort from everyone else, why not the dentists?
Joel
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